Can the Muslim Brotherhood Pursue a Real Revolution or Will Egypt Revert to Military Dictatorship—Hillary Mann Leverett on Al Jazeera

 

Speaking to Al Jazeera (click on video above or here) before the announcement of Mohamed Morsi’s indictment for espionage and collusion with HAMAS, Hillary Mann Leverett discussed the significance of and motives for the Obama administration’s decision that it is not going to determine whether Morsi’s removal as Egypt’s president constitutes a coup: 

“The technical significance here is that, if the United States government does not label what has happened in Egypt as a coup, we can continue to fully fund the military, which has taken over from a democratically elected government in Egypt—which is the goal here.  Strategically, the United States has always seen Egypt as a pillar of what we call ‘stability’—‘stability,’ here in Washington, means a pillar of a pro-American political and security order, even if it’s highly militarized, in the Middle East.  Egypt has been a pillar of that for the United States for thirty years, and that is the core U.S. strategic interest here.  (That’s not my personal opinion; that’s just our core interest.)  So the United States supported this under Sadat, it supported it under Mubarak, and we’re going to support it under this current military government.  The U.S. government, the Obama administration, is very reluctant to do anything that would jeopardize our ties to the military government in Egypt, this pillar of what we call ‘stability’—so-called ‘stability’—in the Middle East…   

The United States, at its core, does not really have an interest in leveraging what’s going on inside Egypt.  All the United States cares about is what Egypt does outside of Egypt, particularly vis-à-vis Israel.  The entire debate here is motivated, I think, by what policymakers and the foreign policy elite here perceive to be Egypt’s stand toward Israel and the rest of the Middle EastIf the military government in Egypt will continue to uphold the so-called ‘peace treaty’ with Israel and promote U.S. interests in the Middle East, that’s fine.  The United States does not really care about what’s happening inside Egypt.  We didn’t care what Mubarak was doing to Egypt’s citizens—not under Mubarak, or Sadat.  I don’t think there’s really going to be very much interest, despite various pieces of rhetoric that may be coming out of various quarters, there’s will very little interest in terms of what’s going on, actually inside Egypt, under a Sisi government.” 

Drawing on her long experience in Egypt, Hillary explains that the current situation confronts the Muslim Brotherhood with the most serious challenge it has ever faced:  

Not only did I work for the U.S. government, work on Egypt at the White House, at the State Department, at the U.S. Embassy in Egypt, but I was a student in Egypt.  It’s a country where I’ve been living and working for over twenty-five years.  I think what’s happening in Egypt is very polarized, very disturbing.  The idea of a military government continuing to have dictatorship over that country, over that people, is something that is a real possibilityThe only real challenge to that, historically and today, has been the Muslim Brotherhood and various other Islamist groups in Egypt

There’s a real test about whether [the Muslim Brotherhood] can pull it offThey didn’t actually start the revolution back in 2011, but the question today is, ‘Can they finish it?’  Can they fight for what they stand for?  Can they fight for a really different system in Egypt, or are we going to be back to, essentially, ‘Mubaraksim’ without Mubarak?  I think that’s really the question that is on the table, and I’m not sure the Muslim Brotherhood is actually up to a real revolutionWe’ll see in coming days.  But the consequence, I’m sure, is going to be a lot more bloodshed, a lot more instability, and some real chronic problems for Egypt for some time to come.” 

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 

128 Responses to “Can the Muslim Brotherhood Pursue a Real Revolution or Will Egypt Revert to Military Dictatorship—Hillary Mann Leverett on Al Jazeera”

  1. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    The Muslim Brotherhood can’t do it- as long as it cuddles up to takfiris and salafis and rejects Shias, Iran, Iraq and Hezbollah.

    As the MB and Islamists in Turkey have found out: you’re either with the US-Israel-Saud/Takfiri axis or you’re with the Iran-centered resistance and civilized humanity.

    There is no third option.

    As the MB- Egyptian and Palestinian- and as the idiots in Istanbul found out, trying to play both sides gets you screwed big time.

    But most important, let’s not forget that Allah (swt) doesn’t really like Omaris to succeed…we’ll leave at that.

  2. Karl.. says:

    Muslim brotherhood was elected and the military (US funded and tied to Israel) have not with some opposition commited a coup against them – its very simple and its nothing nice about it. To sum it up, Mubarak is happy.

  3. Karl.. says:

    edit – should be “have now with some”.

  4. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Macowm says: July 24, 2013 at 10:59 pm (previous thread).

    I believe the best theory put forward to explain the Syrian war is that it is a conflict between Russia and the US (and their respective allies) for determining who will feed natural gas to the EU for the rest of the 21st century. One of the biggest gas fields in the world lies in the Persian Gulf and is shared by Iran and Qatar. There is a pipeline planned by Iran (with Russian diplomatic backing and probable technological expertise and investment) which runs from the shared gas field through Iraq and Syria to Lebanon and on to Europe. The US’s plan is to control the governments through whose territory the planned pipeline runs. This is the only theory that explains both Qatari heavy investment in the Syria mess, as well as Uncle $cam’s over-reach cozying up to al-Qaeda and the other takfiri scum of the Moslem world. It also explains Turkey’s abandonment of their “zero-problems with our neighbors” foreign policy (the alternate routing runs from Iraq through Turkey, I am guessing Uncle Weasel has promised the Europoodle-wannabe Erdogan). Uncle wants his Europoodles dependent not only on his military might, but dependent on it for their very livelihoods during the cold northern winters.

    Bussed in Basiji brother and Empty brother: Methinks the bussed-in Professor hit it on the head: “As the MB and Islamists in Turkey have found out: you’re either with the US-Israel-Saud/Takfiri axis or you’re with the Iran-centered resistance and civilized humanity.” The question is: how long will it take the stupid Sunnis in Egypt and Palestine to realize this? I’m not holding my breath for a people who for 14 centuries have not even BEGAN to realize that a coup d’etat took place at the Saqifa of Bani Sa’eda (the 9/11 event of the Moslem world) and that the coup plotters pulled the Sunnite interpretation of the ul ol-amr ayah hokey-doke on the ommat. Given the entrenchment of this recalcitrance, methinks the Shi’a citidel is far too optimistic about the refractory majority.

  5. fyi says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:

    July 26, 2013 at 11:26 am

    You are simply wrong – the war in Syria had a single purpose: Wound Iran quickly and decisively.

    The gas pipeline to Iraq, Syria and Lebanon is the brainchild of Iranians; Russia has got nothing to do with it.

    Europe does not require much alternative gas – all of this talk about the need for reducing their dependence on Russian gas is just that, “talk”. They can safely postpone that to a future time when Islamic Iran is crushed and they could reap/rape the Iranian resources again – that was another inducement for their economic war against Iran and their desire to destroy the Ba’ath state in Syria.

    Now, of course, things have not gone their way and their immediate losses in both war fronts are accumulating with no end in sight. But since they have burnt their bridges with Iran, there is no going back in any substantial way.

    It has been a great success of the American diplomacy that she has alienated Iran from her immediate partners: in UAE, in Georgia, in India, and in EU. These ties will take decades to re-establish, and, in fact, an immediate settlement of US-Iran difference – either through Iranian surrender or through strategic understanding between US and Iran – will leave these states out in the cold.

  6. fyi says:

    In regards to Sunni Islam – their problem is even more severe than Shia Isla, – Shia at least have a thin thread of philosophy from which to hang their rationalism – not so among Sunni Islam.

    Both houses of Islam suffer, in my opinion, from the absence of the conviction that one has a duty to one’s intellect – to keep its light from being extinguished.

    To wit: the list of documents in the library the URL to which you had supplied contained documents on Christianity – highlighting issues in the Gospels that Christians have been aware of for a millennia. And that is supposed to be the answer of Islam (or Qum) to Christianity?

    I think not.

    I would like to draw your attention to a useful book edited by Dr. Hans Kung: “Christianity and World Religions: Paths of Dialogue with Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism”. This book explores Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism is a collaborative work of 3 other Western scholars.

    An analogous book: “Islam and World Religions: Paths of Dialogue with Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism”, written by Muslim scholar cannot even be considered; the knowledge for writing such a book does not exist among the 1.2 Billion Muslims of the world.

    Put another way; in 1376 Dr. Ali Sarvari, late of Esfahan University – together with his colleagues – published a research monograph on detrimental health effects (both physical and mental) of consanguineal marriages in the Isfahan basin. One would have hoped that by now the religious scholars in Qum and Isfahan, would have taken the initiative to declared such marriages “makrooh” – even though not forbidden in the Quran.

  7. Karl.. says:

    Unknown unknowns

    Syrian war is because pipeline? Thats far-fetched. Rather as “fyi” implies the war (from western viewpoint) is about Iran, or whats good for Israel.

  8. James Canning says:

    “Over several days before the Egyptian coup, Washington sought to persuade the military not to remove President Mohamed Morsi.”
    – – Philip Stephens, in the Financial Times today.

  9. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Karl: I see the war as a microcosm of the macrocosm which hinges, at its deepest level, on geopolitical considerations.

    fyi: I agree that much of the Islamic magesterium is moribund; shifting it from its millenial inertia is Imam Khomeini’s Waliyic Islam project. That having been said, you are wrong about Kung and the supposed merits of Christian scholarship. For one thing, they have not acknowledged the coming of, message and ministry of God’s final and greatest prophet, so how right can they be?? But putting that aside, the problem with Hans Kung and similar approaches to ecumenicism is that their approach always requires compromise in what the respective communities hold sacred. Hence, their approach is basically a non-starter. The rest is just a lot of talk and static.

  10. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Off topic.

    Allame Morteza Askari is definitely my favorite traditional Moslem scholar. If only others had his approach to scholarship.

    http://english.tebyan.net/newindex.aspx?LANGUAGE=3&BOOKID=20992&PageSize=1&PageIndex=0&NAVIGATEMODE=TextSearch&PID=31159&CONTENT=askari

    I will be posting a link to a database with all of his books that have been translated into English in the near future, inshallah. But alas, his two best works have not been translated as of yet: the 150 false narrators (a masterpiece of scholarship and historical research that for once puts WEstern scholarship to shame, rather than the other way around, as is sometimes but not usually the case, and the ma’aref ol-madresatayn (in three volumes, another masterpiece of hadith scinece clarifying centuries-old knots in creedal positions and debates).

  11. Unknown Unknowns says:

    The inimitable Kevin Barrett

    http://presstv.com/detail/2013/07/23/315187/hezbollah-vilified-for-fighting-alqaeda/

    Money quotes:

    No wonder the West loves al-Qaeda. No wonder they think that anyone who opposes al-Qaeda is a terrorist.

    It is hard to imagine how Western hypocrisy on the subject of terrorism could sink any lower.

    Will the West start hiring al-Qaeda fighters to staff airport security checkpoints? Will Obama appoint Ayman al-Zawahiri as his next Homeland Security chief? Will the US military bring Syrian al-Qaeda chief Abu Mohammad al-Julani to tour US military bases and load him with stinger missiles, as they did with Tim Osman (a.k.a. Osama Bin Laden) in the 1980s?

    Will they decide to provide al-Julani with nuclear weapons?

    I wish all of this were just satire. But it is impossible to satirize the West’s “war on terrorism.” The reality is always more absurd than any conceivable product of the imagination.

  12. nico says:

    The Anglo-Saxon leaders do not care a whit about democracy. Let alone in Egypt.
    What the Empire is after is short, medium and long term dominance.
    It is the Empire first, second and third priority.

    The MB was instrumental for a moment. They then became useless and ready to be thrown in the dustbin of history.
    The main problem of Egypt is that this country has Zero chance to ever become independent.
    Egypt is comparable to Pak.
    It is a failed state with huge population and not enough natural ressources.
    They both lag behind in term of human development.

    They are easy prey for Imperial pressure.
    They so much lag behind that they have not much choice but to beg their meal to US, KSA, Qatar, etc.
    Should they not obey, the population would be starved to death in few month time.

    As nicely put by Empty, BiB and UU, the ONLY way out of this spiral for Egypt to lean against some major Ideology that would make change possible. But that would imply huge sacrifices in the short and medium term.
    No need to say that the military is not ready to do just that.
    As for the MB, should they want it, would it even be achievable a task ?
    And the second mandatory condition is for Egypt to have foreign backers.
    As put by fyi, only the resistance axis could provide the necessary positive project framework and backing to succeed.

    The issue is that the MB is financed by Qatar.
    Who could claim that Qatar or even KSA are after Egypt development and good ?
    Qatar and KSA are backward monarchies.
    All they want is to keep Egypt as beggar in order to be the suzerain of the arabs and at the end of the day yo offer them to the Empire.

    Thus from the very start, the US did not care that much about MB.
    MB or the military in the game of dominance is the same.

    Maybe the US feared that on a medium term basis the MB could be more difficult to manage.
    But Morsi proved to be quite pliant. Obvioudly the MB could be a challenge on the long run.

    For Egypt there is no other option than the MB to achieve change. The immediat question that comes to mind is then the real policy and intent of the MB.

    Did the MB provide concession in order to condolidate their power in the short term in order to claim more independence afterward ?
    Or is the MB a failed organization based on backward and idiotic ideology ?

    Well we got the answer when Morsi called for Jihad in Syria.

    Thus no end in sight for Egypt plight as for the next few decades.
    Maybe the Empire

  13. nico says:

    fyi says:
    July 26, 2013 at 11:42 am
    “Unknown Unknowns says:July 26, 2013 at 11:26 amYou are simply wrong – the war in Syria had a single purpose: Wound Iran quickly and decisively.”

    Correct and the Iran-Syrian pipeline is in effect consolidating Iran net over the region, that is why the Syrian pipeline could be seen as the reason for the animosity toward Syria.
    Would Iran be a failed country and not being a threat over the framework of US dominance over the region. Then the pipeline would not be that much an issue.

  14. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    The Egyptian army, or elements within it, were unhappy with Moris’s support of the insurgents in Syria. They also apparently did not approve of Morsi’s effort to improve relations with Iran.

  15. James Canning says:

    Unknown Unknowns,

    “The West loves al-Qaeda”? What do you think is the reason Britain has decided not to arm the insurgents in Syria?

  16. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I agree with you that Egypt and Pakistan are vulnerable due to their inability to control the growth of the population. Sad and dangerous situation.

  17. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    The primary backing for the insurgency in Syria comes from Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

  18. Karl.. says:

    James

    I havent even stepped on that issue?

  19. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Puthin Boots to be first premier to visit with Rowhani. Perhaps he will bring Edward “Hot Potato” Snowden with him and drop him off at our doorstep, together with the user names and passwords to all his cloud drives 😀

  20. Unknown Unknowns says:

    James Canning says:
    July 26, 2013 at 1:39 pm
    Unknown Unknowns,

    “The West loves al-Qaeda”? What do you think is the reason Britain has decided not to arm the insurgents in Syria?

    *

    Ah, let me guess. Because Her Majesty found a religion other than Satan-worship?

  21. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 26, 2013 at 1:43 pm
    “Nico,I agree with you that Egypt and Pakistan are vulnerable due to their inability to control the growth of the population. Sad and dangerous situation.”

    Yes that us sad.
    As I previously claimed, the heart of the western dominance framework in the ME is KSA.
    And as stated by Empty following the leader of the Iranian revolution words, KSA is beyond repair and is unredeemable.

  22. Empty says:

    RE: “Can the Muslim Brotherhood Pursue a Real Revolution or Will Egypt Revert to Military Dictatorship”

    I think the question (and the core of the argument in the text as well as Hillary Mann Leverett’s main point in the interview) relies on false dilemma. It suffers from the fallacy of false dichotomy because it does not consider (make room for) any revolution in Egypt outside of the MB frame. The two-year MB rule and the military coup, and all the theatrics that would follow in the near future are all desparate attemps to buy time and delay the storm. Perhaps the coup was orchestrated, in part, to restore a bit of political legitimacy for MB that lost by continuing to receive funds from the US, that called a zionist snake head a “brother”, that destroyed the tunnel to get food and medicine to Palestinians, that ….so much more.

    The issues of two million people living in cemeteries, more than 25 millions living below poverty line, 20 percent of men and 40 percent of women being illiterate, and overwhelming mojority of the population perceiving itself as humiliated politically, culturally, and economically at national and international levels remain unsolved and unaddressed.

  23. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Do you approve of the economic support Saudi Arabia and the UAE are providing to Egypt?

  24. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    You said you agreed with FYI that the insurgency in Syria was part of an effort to injure Iran.

  25. Karl.. says:

    James

    No I said that that is the western states goal. The actual insurgents fighting does not necessary fight against Iran.

  26. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 26, 2013 at 3:05 pm
    “Nico,Do you approve of the economic support Saudi Arabia and the UAE are providing to Egypt?”

    Obviously one could not be against support and relief of poor people.
    But I am not sure that the money go to poors, at least a major part is sure to finish in junta swiss or london bank accounts.
    The issue is that it is provided for all the wrong reasons and with nasty sort term, medium term and long term consequences for Egypt.
    Actually the relief is provided while the necessary structural reform are delayed.
    I will go as far as claiming that such financial support is offered as long as the necessary reforms are not implemented.

    Both the secular and religious Egyptian leaders proved to be failures.
    If Egypt want to get out of the vicious circle, as goes the sayings :
    One could not be helped against his own will.
    Or help yourself then only god will help you.

  27. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I think a weakening of Iran in fact was an object of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, in their backing of the insurgency in Syria.

    Without such backing, there would be no insurgency.

  28. kooshy says:

    Empty, UU, BIB Aziz

    As ayatollah Khamenei said a while back the best test to measure popularity of any Middle Eastern government is its real treatment and policy toward the Palestinian issue. If it just says it supports Palestinians and means to supports Abbas without any real martial support to Palestinians resistance to Israeli occupation then that government can’t be and is not supported by her street it probably is a decoy and delaying tactic by the west which for the resistance is still is better than what it was since there is a movement and spread of information and activity. Good example is Turkey, Jordan, all PGCC states, Egypt, Azerbaijan, etc. none of these states can go back to Mubarak time even if we don’t see a real revolution yet. I am not disappointed certainly the movement’s direction can’t be beneficial to the west regardless of their designs and desires.

  29. fyi says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:

    July 26, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Since you are dismissive of Dr. Kung, perhaps you would care to consider the emotional meditation of the late Cardinal von Balthasar on Jesus – “The Heart of the World”.

    What is your response to his work?

    Among the 1.23 billion Muslims, is there anyone one who could supply a serious answer, all the while respecting the Christian Tradition?

  30. Persian Gulf says:

    I think Dr. Zibakalam has been rightly characterized by some parliamentary people in Iran: دلقک (a buffoon) that he is.

    I strongly believe he is a disgrace to Iranian academic community. Never have seen an academic person, to the degree that does, knowingly giving completely false and often one sided/biased analysis. and primarily for a very narrow political objective. He has wrongly been taken as a political analyst. he is indeed a propagandist of lower caliper, فی الواقع!, for Rafsanjani, and a bootlicker.

  31. Unknown Unknowns says:

    fyi-san:

    Don’t know the cardinal or his work. What is his appeal? Can you nutshellize him?

  32. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 26, 2013 at 1:37 pm
    “Nico,The Egyptian army, or elements within it, were unhappy with Moris’s support of the insurgents in Syria. They also apparently did not approve of Morsi’s effort to improve relations with Iran.”

    MB is Qatar stooge while the Egytian military is the KSA’s.
    Thus no surprise that neither side would be keen to improve ties with Iran.
    They may pretend otherwise but that is lie or at least power play/balancing in order to milk out and maximize the (P)GCC money.
    What we are seeing in Egypt is bickering beteween Qatar and KSA.
    No problem for the Empire both are in their pocket.

    As KSA is the heart of the Empire dominance over the region no surprise then that the Empire support them against Qatar.
    In the Empire’s divide and rule policy it is likely to be even a good thing to have bickering between the 2 client sheikdoms.

  33. nico says:

    nico says:
    July 26, 2013 at 1:31 pm
    “Fyi says:July 26, 2013 at 11:42 am“Unknown Unknowns says:July 26, 2013 at 11:26 amYou are simply wrong – the war in Syria had a single purpose: Wound Iran quickly and decisively.”

    Why the pipeline is so important ? As the IP(C) one.
    First it makes Syria and Iraq dependent to Iran supplies. As Pak.
    Second it could provide the money leverage necessary for Iran to lease such hugely populated and beggar countries as Egypt and Pak.

    Obviously not in the US interests.

  34. Hurth says:

    I highly recommend you the following very revealing and interesting interview about Iran, democracy, Rouhani and the “green movement”.

    http://www.fairobserver.com/article/iran-democracy-rouhani-green-movement-part-2

    Enjoy the read.

  35. Karl.. says:

    James

    The syrians didnt start protesting nor taking up arms in Syria because of Iran.

  36. fyi says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:
    July 27, 2013 at 12:43 am

    He was, in my opinion, the most significant Catholic Theologian of 20-th Century.

    I cannot summarize him; can you summarize a devotee of Ahl-ol-Beit and a Rumi?

    One of his works – and just one – “The Glory of the Lord” is an intellectual history of Christendom from the perspective of a Catholic; from Saint Augustine to the late Bernanos – running at 3500 pages.

  37. Karl.. says:

    nico

    “The main problem of Egypt is that this country has Zero chance to ever become independent”

    Problem is the military, which is the same military that along w/ Mubarak. Getting rid of these people from power, Egypt could become independent.

  38. Karl.. says:

    edit

    should be “that RULED along w/”

  39. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 27, 2013 at 12:25 pm
    “Problem is the military, which is the same military that along w/ Mubarak. Getting rid of these people from power, Egypt could become independent.”

    I guess the issue is much more complex.
    How will Egypt will feed its population without (P) GCC ane westetn money as well as IMF US controlled loan ?
    Are Iran or for that matter Russia or China ready/able to provide tens of billions a year ? For various reasons, I think not.
    In addition Syria or for that matter Turkey are good example of what kind of destabilization could be expected in a reluctant country.

    The path should be threaded carefully by whatever government in Egypt.
    And evrn if Egypt would choose independence and resistance, no major or dramatic shift in the foreign policy should be expected.

    Egypt simply has not the capacity for that.

  40. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Are you claiming the support for the insurrection in Syria had nothing to do with fears in Saudi Arabia and Qatar that the Iranian nuclear dispute would bring war to the Gulf?

    I think you are mistaken, if that in fact is your position.

  41. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You claim Saudi Arabia controls the Egyptian army and that the US controls Saudi Arabia. Wrong. In fact, the US tried to block the overthrow of Morsi by the Egyptian army.

  42. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    “Nico,You claim Saudi Arabia controls the Egyptian army and that the US controls Saudi Arabia. Wrong. In fact, the US tried to block the overthrow of Morsi by the Egyptian army.”

    Sources ?
    Facts ?
    Hints ?
    Logical concatenation of ideas that could make sense ?

    No, none of that.
    Please spare me your gratuitous assertions.
    I could then engage in fruitfull exchange of views.

  43. Karl.. says:

    James

    Please read what I type. I havent even stepped on the issue of the goals of gulf states. I talked about the insurgents themselves. If you believe syrians began to protest in 2010 because they dont like Iran, you are mistaken.

    nico

    Having deals with IMF doesnt mean you can be independent. But I guess I missunderstood you, I though of independent, as independent foreign policy etc.

  44. Karl.. says:

    ..edit

    “mean you canT be independent”

  45. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 27, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    It seems you have still much to learn.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

    “According to his book, Perkins’ function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like theWorld Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had theirwealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run. In this capacity Perkins recounts his meetings with some prominent individuals, including Graham Greene and Omar Torrijos.”

    You can as well buy the book on amazon or see various interview on youtube.

  46. James Canning says:

    New York Times today has interesting piece on the new Iranian president.

  47. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Legitimate economic grievances prompted the demonstrations in Syria, that were very badly handled by the Syrian gov’t.

    I agree completely those demonstrations were based on the economic problems many people in Syria were experiencing.

    That said, the insurgency would not have developed as it did without strong backing from Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Which in turn owed a bit to their concerns about possible war in the Gulf.

  48. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    “Over the several days BEFORE the Egytian coup, Washington sought to persuade the military not to remove President Mohamed Morsi.”
    – – Financial Times, yesterday

    Read “A decade of war promises a decade of disorder”, by Philip Stephens. (ft.com)

  49. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You did in fact claim the US controls Saudi Arabia. Yes?

  50. Karl.. says:

    nico

    I have read that book and one doesnt have to take that theory too far, getting loans doesnt mean your state turn into a pro-US puppet state. IMF have for example loaned money to Belarus. Isnt Belarus an independent state?

  51. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 27, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    I already told you not to rely on the presstitute.
    But as you took the pain to find that, here is my answer.

    First the financial times or the USG are serial liars, propagandists and you cannot rely on their saying.
    What you need to do is take the FACTS right from various sources and make your OWN opinions.
    You could listen to USG rationals. You would be quite fortunate to understand the whole story as it us full of contradictions, embedded in lies an packaged in humanitarian BS.

    Want an example of USG nonsense, lies, contortions and ZERO principle ? Eh dude, coming from the ?YT !
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/26/world/middleeast/aid-to-egypt-can-keep-flowing-despite-overthrow-white-house-decides.html
    “The Obama administration has concluded it is not legally required to determine whether the Egyptian military engineered a coup d’état in ousting President Mohamed Morsi, a senior administration official said Thursday, a finding that will allow it to continue to funnel $1.5 billion in American aid to Egypt each year.”

    Well the Obama administration is so much opposed to the military that it is no so sure it is coup. Because you know the US laws forbid any financial help to junta that implemented a coup to ouster a legitimate and freely elected government.
    Nice, isn’t it ?

    Well, when you have a US government with Zero morality and no principles whatsoever, I mean at least toward TRUTH and minimal notion of GOOD FAITH in order to be in line with their DOMESTIC laws.
    It says it all.
    You know now where the Banksters, the frauds and all degenerate US policies are coming from.
    That is coming from the total absence of decency. From a culture of MORAL fraud and lies.
    Maybe the US are respecting the letter of their own law but not the spirit.
    Absence of morality is at the heart of the putrescent US and western civilization.

    I know that morality and decency is far from your main center of interest.
    But it is my pleasure to push out my usual daily rant !

    Second, I explain it all in previous posts.
    I do not want to repeat myself, but it seems it is difficult for you to get it straight.
    The US do not care a whit about democracy.
    The US is after dominance in the region and in Egypt.
    The MB or the military, it is all good for the USG. With a slight preference for the military.
    Qatar was defeated by KSA, in an internal struggle among US client states.
    Thus the USG take side with the military.
    Clear enough ?

  52. Fiorangela says:

    Unknown Unknowns wrote:

    “Ah, let me guess. Because Her Majesty found a religion other than Satan-worship?”

    = = =

    good to see you back, Mr. UU.

    = = =

    Several years ago Augustus Richard Norton lectured at Northwestern on the history of Hezbollah. He compared Karballah theology of to that of Jesuit liberation theology — one must remain active in the world and exert effort to improve the plight of all of the children of god. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Hezbollah3

    Here’s what Norton said (at about 25 min):

    “Karballah is an important event in the history of Shia’ism. It refers to the tenth day of Muharrah in the year 680 AD when the Imam Hussein, the grandson of the prophet, was martyred. The meaning of this event, of Ashura, has changed over the course of time. Up until the mid-20th century, the meaning was one of quiescence: ‘One has to suffer in this life, for the reward in the hereafter. Shias believe that the hidden Imam, the 12th successor of the prophet Muhammad, is alive, went into occultation about 1,000 years ago, will return, before the day of judgment, will reign over the earth in a time of peace and justice. Those who have suffered will begin to see their reward, and the ultimate reward is with the day of judgment.

    But what Fadlallah, Khomeini are arguing is ‘No, Karballah is a paradigm for action. In a way, their message is very similar to the message of the Jesuits in the context of liberation theology: Christianity doesn’t mean you should just quietly suffer; you should take responsibility for your lives. You have the ability to make your life better.’ So this is a very, sort of activist interpretation of Karballah. There is a very famous saying, Every day is Ashura, every day is Karballah, originally associated with Ali Shariati, one of the great ideologues of the Iranian revolution, but very very common among Lebanese Shiites.”

    = = =

    Several days ago, Pope Francis, SJ, urged poor, young Brazilians to be “active” in their faith, and in their efforts to build better lives.

  53. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 27, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Are you actually comparing Belarus to Egypt ?
    Hungary will also reimburse its IMF loan before schedule in 2013 like other countries before it.

    Now, are you claiming the industrial base, agricultural output and exports, size of population and human development index of those examplary countries were of the same level as Egypt or other African countries ?

  54. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 27, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    “nicoI have read that book and one doesnt have to take that theory too far, getting loans doesnt mean your state turn into a pro-US puppet state. IMF have for example loaned money to Belarus. Isnt Belarus an independent state?”

    Well phone call are hijacked by the NSA does it make phone a systematic tool for spying ?

  55. Karl.. says:

    nico

    You implied that states that getting loans by the IMF cant be independent, or did I missunderstood you? If you were imply, do you consider Belarus a non-independent state? My point is, the theory that IMF loans generate pro US regimes is false.

    Besides what is “independent” according to you when it comes to Egypt. When they did get loans by Qatar werent they independent? If they would get loans by Iran, would they be more independent?

  56. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 27, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    When the US apply secundary sanctions to Iran or embargo like it is the case in Cuba, why is it unthinkable for you to imagine that the IMF, the World Bank or other institution are subject to US pressure and manipulation.
    Should I remind you how the US behave at the UNSC ? The US comptent fot international law.
    Should I remind you the double standard and the imoral nature of US policies at the IAEA and all other international fora ?
    Should I remind you how the US use referenciall trade agreement to pressure other countries as illustrated in the Snowden case ?

    Now please tell me that the US do not use the financial lever to further their dominance.

    Now, that being said, the question of independence is to be asked BEFORE the loan is provided.
    Each state is sovereign and is responsible for accepting loans with the advantage and the backdrop.

    What is important with Jenkins book, is that it shows that even the decision making to make loan is manipulated by the US.
    Maybe not systematically, but often enough and specially with countries which the US deem necessary to attract in their sphere of influence. But my point was rather that it is proof of the US interedt to put thise country into debt.

    Because once the loaner country is addict to easy money it is easy to manioulate it.

    The poorer the country, the more it is subject to manipulation and pressure.
    Well Pak and Egypt are economically very weak, thus more subject to pressure.
    Actually if the country is rich and strong enough then it can pay back the money without that much pressure.
    The issue arise when you are not able to pay the money back.
    Well Egypt and Pak are sure to never pay back… This is a this very moment where the concessions are extracted.
    As Pak and Egypt still need to import food they are ready to sell themselves off.

    Yes they could still be independent. But then starve to death.
    Not that moraly speaking the loaner is obliged to give money to the beggar against nothing !

    For such country at the moment you accept loan you are not independent anymore.
    The question then is what kind of pressure you will subject to and from whom.
    Are Qatar or KSA after Egypt well being, democracy and development ? Obviously not as such model and power would be a danger to them.
    Are the US after the muslims well being and development ? Obviously not as it would be a danger to their dominance.

    As stated by fyi, only Iran is offering to the region a positive and progressive model of development.

    My point is that from the very start, the goal of (P) GCC or US money and loan are provided to obtain political concessions, bribing Egypt and keeping Egypt in state of dependency. Not for Egypt development.

    But again, it is to Egypt and Egyptian to make their choice and take their responsibility.

    Help yourself first, only then god will help you.

  57. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Several American officials have let it be known they tried to talk the Egytian army out of its plan to overthrow Morsi.

    The fact the Egyptian army ignored their requests was taken by critics in the US of the lack of power Obama has in the Middle East.

  58. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Philip Stephens often talks directly to US officials, or to staffers of those officials. And he aims for accuracy. As does the Financial Times generally, which you should know is the highest-rated English-language newspaper in the world.

  59. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Qatar may have been a bit too enthusiastic about the MB.

  60. fyi says:

    All:

    Dr. Haas on the absence of jus gentium universum:

    http://www.cfr.org/global-governance/international-community/p31148

    basically, every state is now for itself an one must have the power to resist the future Coalition-of-the-Willing.

  61. Empty says:

    Fiorangela,

    Thank you for your post. RE: Every day is Ashura, every day is Karballah, the correct phrase (in Farsi: “har roozi Ashurast, har ja’ee Karbalast” or in Arabic: “Kollo Yomen Ashura, Kollo Arzen Karbala”) is translated “Every day is Ashura, Every place is Karbala”.

  62. Empty says:

    Kooshy,

    Yes, I agree. There is no U-turn for the US Inc. and the Israeli tail that is wagging them. The best they could do is damage control and attempts to slow down the events both of which exacts heavey economic and political costs on them. They can no longer get their way on the cheap.

  63. Empty says:

    fyi,

    About the Haas article you posted, the only truthful statement in the entire article is the following: “Richard N. Haass, President of the Council on Foreign Relations”. The rest of the garbage is to justify the US unilateral actions on behalf of its tail, Israel.

  64. fyi says:

    Empty says:
    July 27, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    No, you misunderstand him.

    He is articulating what I have been saying for years – there is now a war of all against all and it behooves the Iranian planners to plan and act accordingly.

    Dr. Haas is stating the consequences of the death of the Peace of Yalta.

  65. Sakineh Bagoom says:

    fyi, Empty,

    One day your are the best man at the Leverett’s wedding, one day you spew hooey.
    Dr. Haass dreams Iranian dreams every day. Some are wet, some not…

  66. Sakineh Bagoom says:

    edit. you’re

  67. Empty says:

    fyi,

    RE: “He is articulating what I have been saying for years – there is now a war of all against all….”

    Yes. I agree with your assessment that you and a war-loving Mr. Haass (and the LifeAlert system) say the same thing for years.

  68. Empty says:

    Sakineh Bagoom,

    See, that just goes to show you how careful one has to be in inviting people to one’s wedding. Nowadays, I think the bride and groom must have a disclaimer attached to their wedding invitation that reads “the views and material expressed and presented at our wedding do not necessarily represent our views. In fact, we reserve the right to fully disagree with them in the future….etc…..”

  69. Empty says:

    fyi,

    RE: “Yes. I agree with your assessment that you and a war-loving Mr. Haass (and the LifeAlert system) say the same thing for years.”

    To refine it, I mean only regarding your fallen man theory…..

  70. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Test

  71. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Meanwhile in sunny California…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/us/hunger-strike-by-california-inmates-already-large-is-expected-to-be-a-long-one.html?_r=0

    truth-out.org/news/item/17691-sarah-shourd-on-herman-wallace-california-hunger-strikers-and-the-horror-of-solitary-confinement

  72. nico says:

    fyi says:
    July 27, 2013 at 9:15 pm
    “Dr. Haas is stating the consequences of the death of the Peace of Yalta.”

    So what is new about that ?

    Mr Haas is repeating the level zero of reflexion of the neocons.

    What a fraudulent prospective thinker !

  73. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    PG,
    I don’t think there is anybody in Iran who has so consistently gotten everything wrong in his predictions and analyses over the decades as Zibakalaam.

    It is one of the mysteries of the IRI how this guy still has a job and is taken serious.

    More “(Ziba)KALAM” than “(Ziba)KALAAM”

  74. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    fyi,

    For the record

    Quote (from Wiki entry on cousin marriages- for some reason doesn’t let me post link):

    “In April 2002, the Journal of Genetic Counseling released a report which estimated the average risk of birth defects in a child born of first cousins at 1.7–2.8% over an average base risk for non-cousin couples of 3%, or about the same as that of any woman over age 40.[185] In terms of mortality, a 1994 study found a mean excess pre-reproductive mortality rate of 4.4%,[186] While another study published in 2009 suggests the rate may be closer to 3.5%.[1] Put differently, first-cousin marriage entails a similar increased risk of birth defects and mortality as a woman faces when she gives birth at age 41 rather than at 30.[187] Critics argue that banning first-cousin marriages would make as much sense as trying to ban childbearing by older women.”

    If you follow the Wiki link you will see that the majority nations (and states in the US) allow cousin marriages.

    Also see this link:
    theconversation.com/birth-defect-risk-for-children-of-first-cousins-is-overstated-15809

    Studies of local populations such the Sarvari study do not offer generally conclusive evidence. They do however provide evidence of an ogde against local culture and customs.

    Conclusion: Not enough daleel to revise a fatwa nor to hang one’s westoxicated ta’asob on.

  75. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU,

    Right up your alley…

    Quote:
    Von Balthasar: The prostitute is the symbol of the Church
    traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_043_BalthasarMeretrix.htm

    Quote:
    Von Balthasar: The sexual act is the model for the relations between Christ and the Church
    traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_045_BalthasarEros.htm

  76. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU,

    I think the blessed doctors of Islamic law- may God protect them and increase their numbers- the blessed hukama, falasefe and urafa might want to pass on “answering” his Eminence.

    But no doubt that among the Catholic theologians few were as “gebildet” as Cardinal von Balthasar. Certainly his use of the German language is a delight to read.

    And as fyi correctly pointed out, it is in the end “emotional” and not “rational”.

    You see that’s the problem with trinity in general, isn’t it?

    I’ll stick with Imam Khomeini, Allamah Tababtabai, Ayat. Hassanzadeh, thanks.

  77. Karl.. says:

    James

    If you think US dont support the coup you are badly mistaken.

    nico

    So in your opinion Belarus is not a independent state? I would appreciate if you could respond to the questions I posed earlier too. Especially if you consider aid from Iran to Egypt would generate a more “independent” Egypt compared to if Egypt recieved aid from Qatar.

  78. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 8:07 am
    “nico
    So in your opinion Belarus is not a independent state? I would appreciate if you could respond to the questions I posed earlier too. Especially if you consider aid from Iran to Egypt would generate a more “independent” Egypt compared to if Egypt recieved aid from Qatar.”

    I tought I made myself clear.
    Since my english is not that good I will try to refomulate.

    First, since Belarus paid back its loan, much likely that has not been used to pressure Belarus.
    But I also said that Egypt is not comparable to Belarus as Egypt is much poorer and has not the same capacity.
    The difference is simply that Egypt is a beggar country while Belarus is not.

    Second, I stated that a beggar country like Egypt, or Pak, is not independent as it needs to sell it against few USD.
    That is true whoever the loaner or the donor is. The US, Iran, the sheikdoms or any other.

    Third, I stated that the difference between the loaners is the underlying project and worldviews.
    Who will be the lesser evil and will truly support progressive development in Egypt ?
    The US, the PG sheikdoms or Iran ?
    I already answered that question and I would interested to have your opinion about that.

    Fourth, I also stated that Iran, China or Russia loaning serious money to Egypt is only hypotetical.
    Actually my take is that in such case Egypt would be destabilized like Syria or Lybia like by you know who.
    Alternatively, the Egypt leaders could be assasinated by you know who.

    The only moment Egypt was able to have an independent stance from the west was under Nasser. And it was at the height of the soviet help and support to Egypt. And surely at that moment Nasser was not that much independent from USSR.

  79. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Well the question wasnt about capacity, it was the theory (by you) that states couldnt be independent as soon as they approve IMF loans.
    Besides Belarus hasnt much capacity either and atleast I would say Belarus is a independent state (before, after, during IMF loans).
    Of course loans from US and Gulf states to Egypt comes with interests, however I dont understand why you refuse to acknowledge that if Iran loaned money to Egypt, that would also come with interests.

  80. Sakineh Bagoom says:

    Sorry, off topic.

    Question to the Iranian friends of the floor:

    Is this a common scene in Iranian cities other than Isfahan?

    The setup:
    I am still trying to process what I saw in Isfahan on the day that Iran got into the World Cup.
    After the presidential vote in Tehran and much jubilation and witnessing several outdoor parties, I travelled to Isfahan to visit some friends and take in the sites. In the evening we visited Naqsh-e-Jahan Square where I witnessed multiple motorcycle posses of at least several dozen men and women that stopped and chanted slogans and seemed genuinely happy about the advent of World Cup entry. We then walked over to Khaju bridge and walked along Zayendehrud River where we witnessed the motorcycle posse again, or perhaps a different one, this time with chants of Ahmadi bye bye which was quite disturbing, at least to me, as I consider him the best president Iran has had to date. A president as someone once said, has no fear of walking into a lion’s den.
    As we walked over Si-o-se Pol(33 Arches Bridge) we came upon a scene that was quite astonishing. A gathering of one to two thousand people at the entrance to the bridge, something akin to a mosh pit, right out of the movie Apocalypse Now. Men and women elbow to elbow chanting imperceptible chants, and sometimes Allahu akbar. On a very hot day where you could feel the sweat on the person standing next to you, no one had any qualms about how close they were to each other and the whole crowd felt as one, moving left and right, forward and back in unison. There were those whom lead the chants, and those whom sprayed rosewater over the crowd from a two-litter bottle. Some were in tears, and some with a quiet smile on their faces.
    This lasted several hours, well into the night, spilling onto the adjoining streets and snarling traffic.
    I could not bring myself to leave the scene as I felt I was involved in something special, something that as I said, I am still trying to process.
    I had heard of Isfahani bravery and how throughout history they had stood against the worst of the invaders. I had heard of how the shah hated to visit the city, and how the population devised an anti tear gas measure by burning tires to overcome his tyranny. But this, this was in IRI. This was not a religious event where many gather to view re-enactments and listen to sermons. This was not a political event where people gather to demonstrate or show displeasure with policy.
    Was this the cohesion/ the population bonding that stood the test of time?
    Have you seen a similar scene in other cities?

  81. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 9:21 am
    “NicoWell the question wasnt about capacity”

    Well it is all about capacity. Belarus and Egypt are not comparable.
    Belarus has a balanced foreign trade with near 20% debt on GDP.
    While Egypt did not experience a positive trade balance for a very long time and has near 80% debt/GDP.

    And I already answered theoritically.
    If you refuse to understand I cannot do much about it.

    “I dont understand why you refuse to acknowledge that if Iran loaned money to Egypt, that would also come with interests.”

    I already stated that there is no difference financially.
    And I already stated that in all cases Egyot could be subject to pressure.

    It seems you have difficulty to understand my answers and to grasp nuances.
    Maybe that is coming from me and that I am not clear enough.

    Thus I apologize not to pursue this deaf exchange further.

  82. Karl.. says:

    nico

    I rather think its because you dont know whats in Egypts interests to begin with.

  83. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 10:33 am
    “nicoI rather think its because you dont know whats in Egypts interests to begin with.”

    I already stated that it is for Egyptians to make their own choice as they have no perfect and ideal solution to their woes.

    But it seems you are definitely obtuse. Or maybe you know better Egypt interests and you have the perfect answer ?

  84. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Yes, Egypt chose to get loans by gulf states, so there you obviously have them picking their interests.

  85. fyi says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    July 28, 2013 at 6:42 am

    Why don’t you obtain a copy of Dr. Sarvari’s book and read it; including statistics regarding birth defects, diabetes, mental retardation etc.?

    And while you are it, look at the photographs of the children and adults who are suffering real pain in this world and here-and-now.

    Better yet, why do not you go and talk to Dr. Sarvari himself, he is retired but still alive and well?

    Do not waste my time on WiKi – I have seen this first-hand.

    And your response to the late Cardinal von Balthasar is truly revealing; for you are not an un-trained and un-tutored man.

    Here is a project for you that would keep you occupied, should you accept it; translate “The Glory of the Lord” into Persian from the original German. I estimate that will occupy you profitably for the next 15 years – keeping you away from making a fool of yourself in this and other fora.

    Truly, the intellectual capacity to respond to the World does not exist in Muslim polities.

  86. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Fior-san’s guy said:
    “The meaning of this event, of Ashura, has changed over the course of time. Up until the mid-20th century, the meaning was one of quiescence: ‘One has to suffer in this life, for the reward in the hereafter. …But what Fadlallah, Khomeini are arguing is ‘No, Karballah is a paradigm for action.”

    *

    Close but no cigar. It is fashionable for Western “experts” to repeat the meme that Emam Khomeini’s movement and revolution is the orientalists’ equivalent of ‘bid’at’ or reprehensible innovation, thus alienating the initiated young sophisticates from said movement. The truth is that it was about Justice then, and it is about Justice now. The “quiesence” was only because the conditions were not ripe.

    There is a hadith report from Emam Ja’far as-Sadeq, wherein teh narrator reports that he was walking with the Emam when they passed a goat-heard with a bunch of goats, upon seeing of which the Emam said, “If I had as many loyal followers as that goat-heard, I would rise up in rebellion.” The narrator reports that he counted the number of goats in the heard, and there were seventeen.

    ***

    Basiji-jan: thanks for clarifying that. No surprise there, huh? And yes, the problem with Christianity is that at root it is anti-rational. Balthazaar’s other problem is that his name sounds too much like the Beelzebub.

  87. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    fyi,

    You don’t seem to understand that your “experience” which I’m sure is true is what’s called in academia “anecdotal”. In other words it doesn’t prove a larger point you are after.

    It only proves that in a certain area at a certain period certain things happened. Just as if I were to tell you of my experience with the children of first cousins with superior intelligence, physical capabilities and general health. I hope you get that.

    That doesn’t diminish the effort of Dr. Sarvari, but unfortunately all too often we have seen is that these types of “studies” are misused in Iran by westoxicated people to further their agenda. I don’t know if Dr.Sarvari falls in this category.

    Like I said, not much to hang anything on…

    In terms of the good Cardinal as somebody who is very familiar with Catholicism and with the German/Austrian/Swiss writers, thinkers, theologians of the 20th century, von Balthasar is as far theologians go a very important Catholic theologian who unlike some of the others in the 20th century did not give in to the temptation of modernity. This is good as far as I’m concerned.

    Like I said he is a cut above the rest of his generation and a great “aesthete” of the German language, but alas dear fyi it is emotion based on a logical fallacy and irrationality called “the Trinity”.

    Like I said I’ll stick with Imam, Allamah and Ayat. Hassanzadeh.

    It would be nice if you made the effort to seek out the works- or even better- a conversation with great theologians like Ayat Hassanzadeh (you know he speaks French- shocking isn’t it) or his student Ayat Samadi or Ayat Javadi or Ayat Misbah before you slag off like you do.

  88. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    fyi,

    The wiki link had the “scientific” studies linked that prove my point which is that there is no statistically significant higher risk of birth defects among first cousins to merit legal action.

  89. Unknown Unknowns says:

    fyi says:
    July 28, 2013 at 11:30 am
    Truly, the intellectual capacity to respond to the World does not exist in Muslim polities.

    I told you many moons ago that you were a (not so) crypto-Christian, now didn’t I? Kinda like an Iranian I ran into back in the day in San Francisco. He had just gotten off the vatan boat and was lovin’ it Mickee Dee style in the Land of the Free. He was so obviously gay; problem was, he didn’t realize it. I pointed this out to a friend of his, and he said, “You know, you are RIGHT! He IS gay, by Jove!” (Alright, so I added the “by Jove” part). Then I pointed it out to him that he will probably wake up one happy morning, if you’ll excuse the expression, and realize that he is gay. Or, he will go through his entire life not realizing it, and basically being ‘yops’ in that way for the rest of his life.

    It’s just a matter of lexical hygiene is all I’m saying. If it looks like a duck and smells like a duck and acts like a duck, why then, its a duck! Why call yourself a lion? Just for shits and giggles?

  90. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU,

    Funny how some who believe in trinity wanna lecture others on “rationalism”, isn’t it?

    …In Ramadhan, during Layaliye Qadr and Ayame Shahadat Hazrat Ameer (as)…

    Be in migan “porruhi”.

    Keep us in your prayers these nights.

  91. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU,

    Extra points for “by Jove”…

  92. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Super-extra points for creative use of the word ‘yops’ in an English text…

  93. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 11:27 am
    “nicoYes, Egypt chose to get loans by gulf states, so there you obviously have them picking their interests.”

    Nice joke.

    For the moment it is KSA and the US that are choosing what is better for Egypt.
    And for the Gulf loan they have no much say in this matter as Egypt is considered to be in the US sphere of influence.
    Should Egypt decide otherwise they would be punished harshly by the Empire.

    Does Syria or Lybia speak to you ?
    Does Iran embargo and sanctions speak to you ?

    And it is where Jenkins’ book is interesting.
    It describes well the various stages and technics of the US dominance.

    The issue is that US have a policy to agressively impose themselves to others.
    Currently no other country in the world is that much agressive and use the same criminal means.

  94. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Just because you dislike the gulf states doesnt mean Egypt necessary does that, quite the contrary looking on who Egypt accepted loans from.

  95. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Egypt accepted it like a beggar accepting its next meal.
    Not that they have choice between many options.

  96. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    The US sees no option but to back the new Egyptian gov’t, but this does not mean there was no effort by the US to persuade the Egytian army not to overthrow Morsi.

  97. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Philip Stephens, is same FT piece: “In Britain’s case, the government felt obliged to bow to pressure from the Saudis and Emiratis, who also happen to be bankrolling the new regime in Cairo.” Accurate statement, surely.

  98. Karl.. says:

    nico

    They chose it of the alternatives available.

  99. Karl.. says:

    James

    You are saying that the mightiest state on earth cannot chose to stop its support after a coup?

  100. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Richard Haass, in the article you linked, appears to regret the NPT’s acceptance of a civilian nuclear power programme by states that accept the treaty. And no mention of Israel’s refusal to accept the NPT.

    Sadly, Haass is a leader of the ISRAEL LOBBY. This is a chief qualification to head the Council on Foreign Relations these days.

  101. James Canning says:

    For those needing a refresher on point of view of Richard N. Haass, see his comments in Newsweek magazine January 21, 2010: “Enough is Enough – – why we can no longer remain on the sidelines in the struggle for regime change in Iran.”

  102. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    You surely mean out of the option available as the other ones are just blocked by the US imperial structure in the region.

  103. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Didn’t Boris Yeltsin hope for Russian membership in the EU? He was not fretting “the death of the Peace of Yalta”.

  104. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I doubt the US would interfere with Egypt’s obtaining loans from any source.

  105. Karl.. says:

    nico

    I am not aware of any “US blocking” in the post mubarak era regarding who Egypt want to get loans from. Feel free to provide links.

  106. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 28, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    No need to block anything.
    Only to implement the imperial policy in order to avoid any other possibity to arise.
    There is only one alternative in the region and it is Iran.

    The last that I heard about there was a unilateral secondary sanction type ban applicable to Iran central bank.
    Did I get something wrong ?

  107. fyi says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    July 28, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Instead of relying on WiKi, I suggest you study the concrete research of your own fellow-countrymen in the Isfahan basin; pay special attention to the tables of percentages in Dr. Sarvari et. al. book.

    The book was published in 1376 in Isfahan and concerns itself with the population of small towns and villages in its vicinity.

    Do not deny the phenomena.

  108. fyi says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:
    July 28, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    A deplorable response; telling other people what or who they are.

    Both you and Mr. Bussed-in-Basiji have been exposed to the World – he claims to speak German and French – and yet you both are willfully chosing ignorance.

    Really, if it were possible for me, I would have endowed research faculties in comparative religion and in Western history in every university that I could among Muslims.

    Now pay attention here:

    The dominant historiographical paradigm of the West that you and many others (in the West as well) have been fed – Greece & Rome, Dark Ages, Renaissance, Reformation, Enlightenment – is propaganda.

    The salient features of the Western Civilization – from modern empirical sciences to modern state – have their progenitors in the works of Medieval Christian Monks & Doctors of Religion. Even Galileo’s formula for motion on an inclined plane was first derived in the 13-th century – by one of those “logic-chopper” monks.

    The criticality of the period of 9-th to the 14-th century to Europe makes it deserving of study.

    If I were you, I would at least make an attempt at glancing at the volume 5 of the late Cardinal von Balthasar’s “The Glory of the Lord” – subtitled “Realm of Metaphysics in Modern Age”. Perhaps you will learn something.

    Or likely NOT.

  109. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    July 28, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    For 300 years, elites in Russia have been wishing to make Russia a European country.

    In some ways they have succeeded and in some they have failed.

    After the collapse of Soviet Union, they hoped to make a virtue of their defeat by trying to join EU.

    Of course, that was nonsensical as EU was a geopolitical appendage of US and had no place for Russia – which – by maintaining her independent strategic forces – remained a separate power.

    The late Boris Yelstin’s statements were nothing different than Mr. Gorbachev’s “common European home” clap-trap.

  110. fyi says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    July 28, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Again you have misunderstood Christianity – it is not the Doctrine of Trinity which is the central emotional heart of Christianity – rather it is “Resurrection”.

    As for “rational” religion – I am not sure what you mean.

    Protestant Christians of various stripes have claimed that they have now a rational religion – another conceit of Fallen Men.

    Now, pay attention here:

    There is nothing rational in any religion – they are all based on irrational Hope; Hope that God cares about Man.

  111. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Ok what are these “structures” then that have ‘blocked’ out these other alternaives for Egypt? And what are these alternatives anyway?

  112. Persian Gulf says:

    http://irna.ir/html/1392/13920505/80752765.htm

    احمدی نژاد دیگه وضعش اینقدر خراب شده به اراجیف و حرفهای سرتاسر غیرواقعیه زیباکلام پناه آورده. خاک برسراحمقش کردن با این حمایتهای بی موردش از یه مشنگی مثل مشایی.

  113. nico says:

    Karl,

    Who are you kidding here ?

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vXeQJi55cIA/T3-5vG8uEhI/AAAAAAAAH94/CIJAoWszbuo/s1600/Iran_US_bases.jpg

    I would be rather interest in your own theory rather de than your usual one liners.

    If you do not have time to spare to develop your arguments, neitheir I have specifically to engaage in bickering xith you.

  114. fyi says:

    All:

    Dr. Cordesman advises US intervention in Syria because:

    “What started as a Syrian civil conflict now … is steadily strengthening Iran and Hezbollah’s role in the region. It is dividing Lebanon and giving the Hezbollah and extremists a larger foothold there, creating new problems in Jordan and Turkey, pushing Iraq toward civil war and pushing Iraq’s Shi’ite leadership toward added dependence on Iran.”

    http://csis.org/publication/us-options-syria-dempsey-letter

    Used to be that the advise given to one in US – when one was found in a hole – to stop digging.

    No more, evidently.

  115. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Special appearance…The military-industrial complex doesn’t just rule the United States…

    Profiting off war: A look into the world of Israeli arms dealing
    http://972mag.com/economic-strength-is-more-than-a-rhetorical-pun-its-a-work-plan/76488/

  116. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Another…including Marc Rich whom Clinton, who attended, pardoned…

    Arms dealers, major capitalists fund Peres’ 90th birthday bash
    http://972mag.com/arms-dealers-major-capitalists-fund-peres-90th-birthday-bash/73987/

  117. Richard Steven Hack says:

    And this…

    ‘Wars on Gaza have become part of Israel’s system of governance’: An interview with filmmaker Yotam Feldman
    http://972mag.com/wars-on-gaza-have-become-part-of-israels-system-of-governance-an-interview-with-filmmaker-yotam-feldman/71957/

  118. Karl.. says:

    nico

    I asked for evidence that US block, with its “structures”, egyptian capabilities to freely choose where they will get loans from, and you respond with an image on Iran and american bases? Rather “who are you kidding”?

  119. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    fyi wrote:

    “Now, pay attention here:

    There is nothing rational in any religion – they are all based on irrational Hope; Hope that God cares about Man.”

    I’ll answer you in German:

    Wie schoen dass sie ihre wahren “Gefuehle” zum ausdruck gebracht haben. Leider sind es eben nur “Gefuehle”.

    Dass es einen Gott gibt, aber das Dieser sich nicht um sein Erschaffenes sorgt, dass mein lieber Herr fyi, ist die Definition von Irrationalismus, Unvernuenft oder wie es auf gut Deutsch heisst “Unsinn”.

    Vielleicht aber glauben sie einfach nicht an Gott- und koenten dass auch einfach sagen- aber sie trauen sich nicht.

    Ich warte auf ihre Antwort: Auf Deutsch bitte!

    Also you talk about “emotional heart” and resurrection which I’m sure is true but alas “resurrection”- in the Christian version- is a derivative of trinity.

    Trinity is irrational and as such an insult to the well, intelligence, of humans.

    For “emotion” I’ll stick with Karbala on the Day of Ashura, thank you very much.

    Now pay attention here:

    You are wrong, there is rational religion and it’s called Islam. The other “religions” are tavahom va takhayol full stop, even if some of their practitioners are wonderful human beings who are skilled writers and even if some of the practitioners of Islam are unpleasant human beings.

    In terms of the Sarvari study, you are not listening to what I’m saying: nobody is denying anything not even the results of the Sarvari study which I’m sure are accurate.

    It’s just they don’t prove your larger point- got that? And this the point of the studies quoted in the wiki article- not the wiki article itself- which I know you understand the difference.

    There is no statistically significant evidence that birth defects of children between first cousins THAT WARRANTS LEGAL ACTION. You don’t seem to want to get this.

    You also might want to take a refresher course on scientific method and statistics.

  120. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Cordesman thinks civil war in Syria “strengthens” Iran? Wrong.

  121. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Only countries with sufficient spare funds available to prop up Egypt seem to be Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and Kuwait. Qatar not pleased with overthrow of Morsi.

  122. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I have a high regard for Gorbachev.

    Including Russia in EU presented problems due simply to the size of the RF, and issues regarding separatist movements in constituent parts of RF.

  123. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Russia is as much a “European” country as Turkey. More than Turkey, I should think.

  124. fyi says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    July 28, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    So, are we to be impressed that you have learnt the language of those whose religion is irrational and consists of fantasy and delusion?

    Your willful ignorance reminds me an Arab scholar of the 15-th century; stating that the science of Arithmetic has advanced in the lands of the infidels – as he has heard – but Muslims are in no need of the knowledge of Christians.

    I see that little has changed since then.

    Still there is no willingness, capacity or ability to dialogue with others of different religions – even those endorsed by the Quran.

    Truly deplorable.

    In regards to your statement:

    “There is no statistically significant evidence that birth defects of children between first cousins THAT WARRANTS LEGAL ACTION”; keep telling yourself that, perhaps you will come to believe it.

    See http://lewisgale.com/hl/?/news/NRCN678016/Birth-Defect-Risk-Doubles-in-Children-Born-to-Cousins–Study.

  125. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    July 28, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    You, like Mr. Bussed-in-Basiji, are also in willful ignorance.

    EU has been a US appendage; there is no room in there for 2 sovereigns.

  126. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    July 28, 2013 at 1:55 pm
    I would have thought mr yeltsin was to busy being a drunkard to do much of anything,as for russia being a part of the eu that would be about as likely as russia joining nato,back then the europeans didnt want the russians,these days I`d imagine most russians wouldnt want to be part of the eu

  127. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    I think Russia is simply too large to become a member of the EU.
    Russia has explored possible associate membership in Nato.

  128. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    If you are arguing that EU countries benefit from arms spending by the US, you are quite right. But EU is not thereby an “appendage” of the US. The interests in commnon are huge.