Can Washington Reciprocate Iran’s “Constructive Engagement”?

As New York prepares for the annual opening of the United Nations General Assembly next week, the volume of Western media speculation about the prospects for a U.S.-Iranian diplomatic breakthrough is mounting to impressive levels.  Predictably, much of this speculation amounts to little more than wondering how many concessions the Islamic Republic’s new president, Hassan Rohani, is willing and will be able to make, especially on the nuclear issue.

As usual, we prefer looking at facts and authoritative statements of official positions over the speculation of journalists and pundits.  In this spirit, we want to highlight a few passages from President Rohani’s much noted Op-Ed in the Washington Post earlier this week, see here.

Three passages seem especially relevant for understanding Tehran’s position on the nuclear issue.  The first presents Rohani’s definition of “constructive engagement” (emphasis added):

“It is—or should be—counterintuitive to pursue one’s interests without considering the interests of others.  A constructive approach to diplomacy doesn’t mean relinquishing one’s rightsIt means engaging with one’s counterparts, on the basis of equal footing and mutual respect, to address shared concerns and achieve shared objectives.  In other words, win-win outcomes are not just favorable but also achievable.  A zero-sum, Cold War mentality leads to everyone’s loss.”

The explicit reference to not relinquishing one’s rights is, of course, very much of a piece with Rohani’s statements, during his presidential campaign and since his election, that he is not about to surrender Iran’s right—as a sovereign state and as a non-weapons state party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)—to enrich uranium under international safeguards.  Unfortunately, there is no concrete indication that the Obama administration is prepared to acknowledge this right.  In fact, one can find multiple statements from administration officials over the last five years publicly denying that there is such a right.  (This is, among other things, a legally and intellectually dishonest reading of the NPT.)

The second passage from President Rohani’s Op-Ed that we want to highlight here explains with admirable clarity why the Islamic Republic is not about to compromise its right to safeguarded enrichment (again, emphasis added):

“We must also pay attention to the issue of identity as a key driver of tension in, and beyond, the Middle East.  At their core, the vicious battles in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are over the nature of those countries’ identities and their consequent roles in our region and the world.  The centrality of identity extends to the case of our peaceful nuclear energy program.  To us, mastering the atomic fuel cycle and generating nuclear power is as much about diversifying our energy resources as it is about who Iranians are as a nation, our demand for dignity and respect and our consequent place in the world.”

President Rohani goes on to note, “Without comprehending the role of identity, many issues we all face will remain unresolved.”  Indeed.  Unfortunately, it remains far from clear that the Obama administration understands how tightly the matter of Iran’s nuclear rights is linked to fundamental questions of identity (like independence and control of the country’s energy resources) for Iranians who supported Imam Khomeini’s revolution and continue to support the political order it produced.

The third passage from President Rohani’s Op-Ed that we want to highlight discusses the requirements for diplomatic progress (yet again, emphasis added):

“To move beyond impasses, whether in relation to Syria, my country’s nuclear program or its relations with the United States, we need to aim higher.  Rather than focusing on how to prevent things from getting worse, we need to think—and talk—about how to make things better.  To do that, we all need to muster the courage to start conveying what we want—clearly, concisely and sincerely—and to back it up with the political will to take necessary action.  This is the essence of my approach to constructive interaction.”

President Rohani certainly is not the first Iranian leader to want the United States to clarify its ultimate intentions vis-à-vis the Islamic Republic.  Unfortunately, it remains far from clear that the Obama administration is or will be prepared to lay out a clear and positive end game for nuclear talks with the Islamic Republic—for this would require the United States to acknowledge Iran’s aforementioned right to safeguarded enrichment as an essential pillar of any negotiated solution to the nuclear issue.

So, going into UNGA next week and looking beyond UNGA to renewed nuclear negotiations with the Islamic Republic, the relevant question is not how much is Iran’s leadership prepared to concede on the nuclear issue.  Rather, the relevant question is whether Washington is prepared to abandon a strategic approach to the Middle East that has done profound damage to America’s own position in this vital region—in no small part, by rendering productive diplomacy with the Islamic Republic impossible.

This was very much the theme of an interview that our colleague, Seyed Mohammad Marandi from the University of Tehran, gave earlier this week to Russia Today, see here.  We append the interview, titled “Iran’s position strengthening while US in decline,” below, along with Russia Today’s editorial precede:

“Iran’s vow to never develop nuclear arms appeared to be an olive branch extended America’s way.  But it is Washington, and not Tehran who needs all the friends it can get these days, Professor Seyed Mohhamad Marandi from the University of Tehran told RT.

On Wednesday, Iran’s new president Hassan Rouhani said of the Islamic Republic, ‘under no circumstances would we seek any weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, nor will we ever.’

Underscoring Rouhani’s concerted efforts to kick start negotiations over its controversial uranium enrichment program with the West, US President Barack Obama and Rouhani exchanged letters.  This followed recent elections in Iran and the two leaders may meet on the margins of the UN general assembly next week.  Rouhani, who took office in August, also ordered the release of Nasrin Sotoudeh, an Iranian human rights lawyer, and a number of other political prisoners on the eve of a visit to the United Nations.

The White House has thus far reacted positively towards these overtures, with White House spokesman Jay Carney saying there is an opportunity for diplomacy when it comes to the issues that have presented challenges to the United States and our allies with regards to Iran.

Professor Marandi says that while the onus has been put on Tehran to return to the Western fold, it is Washington who needs Iran to help fix the mess it’s made in the region.

RTIran has always said that it would not construct nuclear weapons.  So why the apparently enthusiastic reaction from the US now?

Seyed Mohhamad Marandi:  It’s hard to say, it really should be asked why the United States didn’t respond earlier because this is what the Iranians have been saying all along.  But still I think the Iranians are quite willing to see if the apparent enthusiasm will lead to any change in US policy; that’s the important thing.  What the Iranians are doing right now is saying ‘look, we are going to preserve our sovereign rights as an independent country, we will continue with our peaceful nuclear program, we’ve never disregarded international law, there’s no evidence of that, but we are willing to create a new favorable environment for negotiations.’  So basically what the Iranians have done is put the ball firmly in the American’s court, where it’s been for quite a while, but they’re doing this basically for the international community to see, and it’s now for the United States to respond.

So far the United States has responded negatively.  As soon as Mr Rouhani became president [Washington] slapped on new sanctions, now they are taking a building that is linked to the Iranian community in the United States.  These are not positive signs, so the Iranians are waiting to see over the next few days and weeks whether the United States is going to rethink its previously irrational approach toward Iran.

RT: You mentioned peaceful energy purposes.  Will the US ever accept that?

SMM:  That’s up to the United States.  Iranians are not going to wait for US acceptance.  The Iranian position has been strengthened over the past few months, recent Iranian elections have shown Iran’s strength; the high turnout has shown there is a great deal of legitimacy in the Iranian electoral process.  The reason why some of these people in prison were released was not because of any human rights work that they did, but because after the previous elections (which they deemed fraudulent), they were helping to create unrest in the country.  But after this election, President Rouhani and many reformists and people from all backgrounds in the political establishment have said that there never was fraud and that basically this has strengthened Iran’s position.  Right now, while the rest of the region is in uproar and there’s increasing instability thanks to the United States, Iran is the only country that is completely stable and with a high turnout in the political process in the country.

On the other hand the United States has isolated itself by threatening Syria; the international community has moved against the United States, and even within the United States Obama and the political establishment has lost popularity and support over their proposed aggression against Syria.  So Iran feels that its position is much stronger today, and America’s position is much weaker.

RT: Could Iran’s new efforts to improve relations with the West be seen as a sign that sanctions have actually worked?

SMM:  Sanctions are working in the sense that some people have died because of a lack of medicine because Americans have basically tried to shut down the Iranian central bank, along with their allies.  But that has created anger among Iranians.  But at the same time, President Rouhani has said specifically that Iran is very willing to resolve questions that exist with regards to the Iranian nuclear program in the West as long as Iran’s rights are preserved.  But when the United States threatens countries, invades countries and imposes sanctions on ordinary Iranians, creating a lack of medicine for cancer patients for example, then that does not help resolve the situation.  The Iranians are not going to kneel to the United States.  Iran is a sovereign and independent country, that’s what the revolution was about 34 years ago, for Iran to gain its independence and overcome American hegemony.  It’s not a client regime like Saudi Arabia, Qatar or Jordan.  So if the United States comes to respect Iran, then we can have rapprochement.  The United States needs Iran, because thanks to its own policies, its destabilized the whole region, the United States has allowed Al-Qaeda to thrive through Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other oil rich dictatorships.  In order to salvage the situation, it needs a strong, powerful, secure and stable country like Iran to help resolve the current mess that they’ve created in the region.”

We will be spending time in New York over the next week, monitoring developments and meeting with senior members of the Islamic Republic’s UNGA delegation.  Whatever happens, it is likely to be an interesting—and potentially very revealing—week.

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 

709 Responses to “Can Washington Reciprocate Iran’s “Constructive Engagement”?”

  1. Smith says:

    I do not think so. For the past 65 years the United States strategy in the middle east and North Africa can be summarized in two dimensions: one is the support for “useful” dictators among the elites of the region and the other spread and strengthening of wahabism among the ordinary people. Iran does not have any place in this strategy. Its leaders are not dictators and are not useful for US and the people will never accept wahabism. But it is good for Rouhani to show it to world for a last time, that it was US that pushed Iran pulling out of NPT and become a nuclear weapon state. The world sympathy is with Iran (disregarding the continuous dehumanization and demonization of Iranian people by western media).

  2. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 18, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    I agree. In fact this negotiation is pretty much like how the Russian Tzar was negotiating with Caucasians in Leo Tolstoy’s Hadji Morad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G2uFzeGhosY#t=385

  3. Pirouz says:

    I keep reading about the big foreign policy differences between the former administration and new but so far the the only one I’ve really noted refers to the previous one’s critical reflection of the european jewish holocaust and subsequent rendering on Palestine.

    I mean, on the Iranian side, there’s continuity on “rights” (nuclear fuel cycle) and “respect” (legitimacy of Islamic revolution), and from the American side it’s still about “deeds” (no nuclear fuel cycle for IRI).

    But hey, if behind the scenes ANY engagement and ANY agreement can be achieved, “hallelujah” is what I’ll say.

  4. Empty says:

    Imam Khomeini: “The Islamic nation follows the school of thought that has a program summarized in two phrases: لا تَظْلِمُونَ وَلا تُظْلَمُون [Laa Tzhlemona va la Tazlmoun — Interpretation/translation: ‘Do not oppress and do not become and oppressor.’].”

    Ayatollah Khamenei: “The colonial system is a system that divides that world into the oppressors and the oppressed; The logic of the revolution is the logic of Islam, it’s the logic of لا تَظْلِمُونَ وَلا تُظْلَمُون [Laa Tzhlemona va la Tazlmoun — Interpretation/translation: ‘Do not oppress and do not become and oppressor.’]; it means you must not oppress others and you must not allow others to oppress you. Who in the world community and in the realm of human existence would not be happy with this message? Who would not develop an affinity and affection for this message? Neither oppress nor allow yourself to be oppressed. This is exactly opposite of the colonial system that is ruling the world today.”

    Source: From Ayatollah Khamenei’s speech to the Revolutionary Guard; Titled: The logic of the Islamic Republic’s System; Access online: http: / / farsi.khamenei.ir/ audio-content?id=24050

  5. Empty says:

    It should read: “do not oppress and do not become an oppressor”

  6. Kooshy says:

    Smith says:
    September 21, 2013 at 12:07 am
    “I do not think so. For the past 65 years the United States strategy in the middle east and North Africa can be summarized in two dimensions: one is the support for “useful” dictators among the elites of the region and the other spread and strengthening of wahabism among the ordinary people. ”

    Smithy Gonzalez

    In your conditions is there any room for criticizing unconditional support for Israel in this same past 65 years or no that’s off limit and not to be brought up?

  7. M. Ali says:

    There needs to be a huge shoulder built in tehran, for all the optimistic Iranians to cry on after they realized that nothing positive will come out of this.

    A perception of dipolomacy is being created for US public and their allies, so that when it fails, the blame will fall on Iran, not Obama. We saw the same thing with Obama’s open hand speech when he was elected. The narrative has now been that even though Obama was so willing to engage with Iran, it was Ahmedinijad and Khameini that was not willing to shake Obama’s outstretched hands. They will do the same thing here.

    The narrative will be mananged so well, that not only will the Americans believe it, but even some Iranians will buy into it.

  8. Karl.. says:

    Rouhani have made his move, now its time to obama to show his, lets see if he is serious once and for all.
    Remember Obama and netanyahu will meet next week too, will they sit together in the oval house having a press conference, making threats against Iran as usual? We have to be prepared for that…

  9. Empty says:

    M. Ali,

    RE: “There needs to be a huge shoulder built in tehran, for all the optimistic Iranians to cry on after they realized that nothing positive will come out of this.”

    Why waste the resource. Instead of a huge shoulder to cry on, I think it would be a good idea if we took them all to Urumieh Lake so that they could dump their tears in there to prevent it from drying up. The salinity might be somewhat okay, too.

    One year of Rouhani could cure them of their illusion.

  10. M. Ali says:

    Empty,

    “Instead of a huge shoulder to cry on, I think it would be a good idea if we took them all to Urumieh Lake so that they could dump their tears in there to prevent it from drying up. The salinity might be somewhat okay, too.”

    I support this. This way at least all the reformist bloggers can, at least, be proud of Rohani for helping the enviroment!

  11. BiBiJon says:

    There is enough jaded pessimism to fill up a few lakes
    ==================================================

    M. Ali, and Empty, I strongly resemble your remarks:)

    But you cannot deny there’s something afoot. There’s an avalanche of positive coverage in MSM about how refreshingly wonderful, and wonderfully refreshing, Mr Rouhani is; the MSM insists in hundreds of articles that SL has been given him ‘lake’ size berth to navigate his lips to contact Obama’s cheeks.

    Why do you suppose MSM is doing such extensive PR for Rouhani?

  12. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 21, 2013 at 3:43 am

    The Netanyahu/Obama press conference will show Isreal’s begrudging endorsement for a US deal with Iran.

    OTOH, if Netanyahu runs his mouth again about 1938, Hitler, etc. he will be completely sidelined and will in effect squander a chance to have input into the contours of such a deal.

  13. Empty says:

    BiBiJon,

    It is the respect we have for your tears, for sure!

    RE: MSM “boq o karna” and how they build up the story, it’s their old trick, you see. It is for its entertainment value just like the link below. The more carefully and magnificently it is built, the more “awe” it extracts when collapsing:

    http: // http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p5JC9wE8jc

  14. M. Ali says:

    BiBijon, I’m generally a positive person. However, I’m only worried because I don’t like the instant-cure optimism I’m seeing, merely because after it doesn’t come to light, it is full of heartbreak and folludeh eating and crying over GemTV and River Turkish soap operas over Kozeh or Khoram Sultan dying or something.

  15. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    I think netanyahu will go all out this time with nazi germany references etc he will not let US, possibly, show any positive sign against Rouhani.

  16. M. Ali says:

    So, I’ve been reading this,
    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21586598-irans-new-president-launches-unprecedented-charm-offensive-his-biggest-smile

    and noticed this,

    “. In an American television interview—by itself a rarity—Mr Rohani said ”

    How is an American television interview a rare thing? Ahmedinijad constantly gave interviews!

  17. Rd. says:

    Cyrus says: [prev thread]

    “I don’t think that the rejection of the Syria attack had anything to do with the people’s views. It was instead a result of inter-elite divisions in US policy-making circles. “

    I agree. Obama would not be making such decisions unless some of his backers ($$) where behind him. The question is, what is the reason? Just the financial losses of ensuing energy turmoil, etc?? and if so, all the hoopla re engaging Iran, is this because ‘same’ faction whose financial interests are concerned, looking for SOME resolution?

  18. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    kooshy, Empty, M Ali,

    US cannot “reciprocate”. More precisely if Barry White had a strategic bone in his body- which he doesn’t- he could do it as president and of course risk impeachment especially after the Syrian attack “failure”.

    And yes many tears of unrequited love will be flowing in Tehran by all those monafeq and taghutis yearning to be affirmed as “civilized westerners” by US and “Barack Hussein Obama” (ironic isn’t it).

    Like I said when Jenabe Zarif became FM: What will he do if the US detente doesn’t work? He’s personally too invested in this and of course the Americans know this and that’s how they will twist his balls in the negotiations.

    Yes “narmeshe ghahremanane” is being applied, it will not have the desired result that Zarif and Co want because of the structural/cultural/quasi-religious issues in the US we have discussed and then the great disappointment among “delbasteha be gharb” in Iran will set in.

    Serves you right, cry until your eyes fall out badbakht-ha!

    We have a group of people in Iran who on the surface look Islamic- beards, chadors, rings, yaghe akhundi- bureaucratic types who cannot even spell the word “jihad”.

    They haven’t read the Quran carefully and thus they don’t really know Islam and still have hope and faith in kufar. These people are very dangerous and they are the source of much of the problems we have had in the last 30+ years.

    They are the real “monafeqin”- not those kos-khol loser pensioner cult members being transferred to Albania.

    They are like syphilis or herpes- can’t get rid of them once they have entered the body and they break out in regular intervals when something triggers it.

  19. kooshy says:

    BiB

    With regard to rapprochement with US/West mentality of reformers (merchant class supported and naturally the icons are Yazdies and Moozies are Kirmanies) that I have learned from their internal and external supporters is: This group’s mentality is totally brained washed and is amazed with western propaganda in such a way that under no circumstances if and when the rapprochement / talks don’t end up going forward due to any unwarranted western demand they still have the audacity to blame Iran and since they can’t and will not blame the west, they end all the leveling all the blames on Ayatollah Khamenei and Sepah.

    I bet once again when Mr. Rohani and his team finds out that for their own sake politically they can’t fulfill western unwarranted demands, just like Mr. Kahtami his team they will end up blaming and spending SL’s political respect. If you guys in Iran are smart you make the ground ready that when and if their rapprochement didn’t work, everyone in Iran sees this as Mr. Rohani’s the reformers fault and not the SL.

  20. Fiorangela says:

    Karl @ 8:25 am —

    It will be a good thing if Netanyahu doubles down on the Hitler/Nazi references. The man is so dumb he doesn’t recognize he’s in a hole. My Grandfather used to sharpen his shovel by plunging it into a bucket of sand. Bibi’s Nazi rhetoric will have the effect of sharpening the shovel as he digs himself in deeper.

    Jay —

    I’ve not finished watching this video of World War II from the German perspective; you might be interested in spending 90 minutes —
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g0XyosEza8

    I don’t know who produced it; it was originally in German, I gather, and this version has English voice-over. As far as I’ve observed (to the one hour mark of a 1 hour 36 min. production, or just after Dunkirk), the information stated seems accurate — the question is, what is omitted.

    The film emphasizes that German troops held their position on the western border for many weeks, with no aggressive moves from either side. I’m still not clear why Hitler felt compelled to cross the border into France-Belgium-Netherlands; I guess it is because Germans saw England massing troops on Europe’s borders, and also occupying Iceland, to control the N. Atlantic.

    So far the narrator has only mentioned the word “Blitzkrieg” without explaining (what I believe was) the tit-for-tat air bombardment of British and German cities that Churchill deliberately provoked and sustained.

    There are likely numerous omissions: so far there is no mention whatsoever of targeting Jews: the strategic aims of Germany are explained but no racial themes or harangues on “Aryan supremacy” are featured. The geopolitical and strategic aims behind the campaigns to unite Austria and Sudetenland (two parts)are explained from the German point of view; the conflict with Poland is quite thoroughly covered: Poland came to control the railroads that were the means of transit for coal to Germany, without which coal Germany could not survive. etc. etc.

    (Wm. Kristol mentioned Hitler and the Rhineland in his proposal that Netanyahu should save Western civilization. This film explains the treaties and betrayals of treaties that were involved in Hitler’s eventual occupation of the Rhineland. Spoiler alert: France was not an innocent.

    Trita Parsi’s “Treacherous Alliance” and its tri-part intrigues among Israel, Iran and USA has nothing on the double- and triple-layers of alliances and betrayals among the British-French-USA vis a vis Russia vis a vis Poland and all vs Germany. Churchill was manic to destroy Germany.

    Several recent book discussions on C Span have focused on FDR and the war. Lynn Olson’s “Those Angry Days” discusses the intense conflict between the isolationists and their flag-carrier, Charles Lindbergh and supporters from among the military’s top leaders; and the interventionists, whose cast of characters included a thousand or more British propagandists who operated from New York City; millionaires, publishers, the Anti Defamation League, Felix Frankfurter as center of the “shadow elite” that drew in Wendell Willkie. The major theme that Olson hammers away at is that Americans were urged to join the war between England and Germany to save Britain — “a moral responsibility” — the bastion of “western civilization.”

    A second book event covered the annual conference at FDR’s library at Hyde Park, where Susan Dunn and Christopher O’Sullivan (among others) spoke.

    Dunn’s talk was along the same lines as Lynne Olson’s: “Germany is the embodiment of evil, we know this because Hollywood movies portray Germany as evil; Britain is the guardian of “Judeo-Christian values and all that we hold dear” (that’s a direct quote) and if US does not stand for Britain, next stop Manhattan and our whole way of life. … Dunn’s talk drew quite a crowd, and Anglophilia ran rampant.

    Christopher O’Sullivan talked about his book, “FDR and the End of Empire” in the penultimate slot, to a very small audience — about 25 people vs. perhaps 150 for Dunn. Based on the talk (I have not been able to see the book: the library has had it “in processing” for the past 3 weeks), O’Sullivan seems to focus on FDR’s relations with Middle East: FDR wanted “reciprocal & mutually respectful” relations with Arabs and Iran; he did not trust Churchill or Great Britain and was determined NOT to “make the world safe for empire” — FDR wanted to break up Britain’s empire. O’Sullivan argues that Churchill took England to war precisely to protect and expand British empire, and to destroy Germany competition that might limit British imperial designs. Obviously, O’Sullivan’s thesis is exactly counter to the arguments posed by Olson and Dunn.

    You will, of course, draw your own conclusions. In my opinion, to include Churchill in the category Bastard is to demean god-fearing bastards everywhere.

  21. Karl.. says:

    Fiorangela

    Unfortuantely whatever comes out netanyahu’s mouth is hailed.

  22. James Canning says:

    Financial Times today reports Netanyahu is working hard to block Rouhani’s effort to improve Iran’s relations with the West. At least Netanyahu is now saying Iran wants to be able to build nukes quickly. Rather than Iran is building nukes.

  23. James Canning says:

    Vladimir Putin: “Syria came into possession of chemical weapons as an alternative to Israel’s nuclear weapons. The technological superiority of Israel in the region is so obvious that it doesn’t require nuclear weapons. . .”
    –AP report Sept 20

    Excellent observations by Putin. Obama should say the same thing. But of course will not.

  24. James Canning says:

    The New York Times reported yesterday that Obama may be willing to accept some uranium enrichment by Iran, seeing this is necessary in order for Rouhani to be able to make a deal.

  25. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    The village idiot has not understood yet that the Obama / Nyahoo game is only role play of good cop, bad cop.
    They both have the same end goal of full dominance over the ME.
    Nyahoo and Obama are made up of the same rotten supremacist and evil core.
    Their strategy is fully interwined. They are legs of the same chair

    Nyhaoo is playing the mad dog and giving the pretty excuse of the “moderate” Obama.

    That laughable. The idiot still insists that the poooor “moderate” Anglo are victim of some kind of jewwww conspiracy.
    THAT PURE LIE AND DECEPTION.
    However some village idiot may buy in such new born fantasy.

  26. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 21, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    “The New York Times reported yesterday that Obama may be willing to accept some uranium enrichment by Iran, seeing this is necessary in order for Rouhani to be able to make a deal.”

    Laughable.

    Not going to happen.

    Obama clearly stated the American exceptionalism and supremacism as per the judeo-prostetant root of the US.
    It is clearly translated in the US unilateral policies for 25 years and the US continuous hostility toward Iran for 35 years.

    Should Obama accept Iran enrichment it would be a TOTAL defeat as per the US macro policies.
    In addition the US have nothing to gain from such agreement ZERO.

    For things to change the US need first to change their TRANCENDENCY.
    Stop being exceptionalist.
    Stop being tribalist.

    Next they need to change their MACRO POLICIES.
    Stop unilateralism.
    Stop plundering of the nations.

    Only then there could be a detente with Iran.

    See the program ?
    Not going to happen any time soon.
    Not likely under any circumstance.

    For things to change there are not many options.
    First Iran and the US may struggle in the current environment for years or decades.
    The second option is a direct war.
    The third option is collapse of the US or Iran.

    That much is clear.

    Wait and see.

  27. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    You think Eisenhower saw Nasser as a “useful dictator” and that is the reason he blocked the Franco-British effort to overthrow him in 1956?

  28. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I view the report in the NYT that Obama may be willing to accept some Iranian enrichment as something of a trial balloon. Kerry hinted at this during the Senate hearings on his confirmation.

    Israel and Israel lobby oppose any Iranian enrichment. But that does not mean Obama would suffer a “defeat” if he accepted Iranian limited nuclear enrichment.

  29. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    The Financial Times for years has called for acceptance of limited Iranian enrichment.

    R S Hack would regard the FT as a spokesman of “the 1%”.

  30. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    William Kristol is urging Israel to attack Iran. Great idea. As good an idea as his claim Netanyahu is now “the leader of the West”.

  31. James Canning says:

    Rd.,

    Obama could see that a foolish American attack on Syria, without Congressional approval, could prove a problem in the 2014 US elections.

    And Obama in fact is not keen to intervene in Syria.

  32. Karl.. says:

    James

    Iran has been ready for a deal for years, US hasnt been interested, as Leveretts in this article say there is no support by obama on respecting Iran’s right.

  33. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 21, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    “Nico,I view the report in the NYT that Obama may be willing to accept some Iranian enrichment as something of a trial balloon. Kerry hinted at this during the Senate hearings on his confirmation.”

    Contrary to Iranian leaders, the US leaders are liars. Nothing can be deducted from their words.
    The SL rightly said that the US leaders are not logical, they have no dignity and honor (I confess, this one is mine), they are liars.
    Tye US may only judged upon acts.
    And my judgment as been released.

    YOU only babble about unlikely potentiality and your delusion and lie of the Anglo being/having moral when they have been proven satanic.

    James Canning says:
    September 21, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    “Nico,
    The Financial Times for years has called for acceptance of limited Iranian enrichment.R S Hack would regard the FT as a spokesman of “the 1%”.”

    Laughable.
    Since when the western presstitute hold some kind of credibility…?
    Press have only one power. To tell truth that powerfulls want to be kept veiled.
    Like the NSA scandal.
    Other press attribute is solid BS. And what they call for is also also solid BS.

  34. Kooshy says:

    وی خاطر نشان کرد: از آنجا که ما خود را در معرض یک موقعیت واقعی می‌بینیم، نمی‌توانیم ادعای واهی داشته و یا آمار مجازی دهیم بلکه باید حقیقی صحبت کنیم.

    جانشین فرمانده کل سپاه در خصوص توان سپاه در عرصه دریایی نیز توضیح داد: ما قدرت ویژه‌ای داریم که می‌توانیم در یک جغرافیای وسیع مانند خلیج فارس با استفاده از یکی از اجزای قدرت‌مان تمام شناورها را متوقف و منطقه را به یک پارکینگ شناورها تبدیل کنیم.

    وی افزود: هر اندازه این شناورها بزرگ‌تر و عظیم‌الجثه‌تر باشند، بیشتر در معرض آسیب‌پذیری قرار می‌گیرند؛ چرا که موشک‌های ساحل به دریا و دریا به دریای سپاه می‌تواند این ناوها بزرگ را به راحتی شکار کند.

    «هر چه اندازه ناوها بزرگ‌تر باشد، رادارهای ما بهتر آنها را کشف می‌کنند و موشک‌های بالستیک ضدشناور ما نیز با دقتی نزدیک به صفر می‌توانند به آنها اصابت و این ناوها را منهدم کنند».

    – See more at: http://farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13920630001614#sthash.jG1j6Px8.dpuf

  35. JohnH says:

    This is going to be an interesting ride. Rouhani is fast positioning himself as the adult in the room, just as Putin did. Meanwhile, the US is becoming seen as the hot-headed teenage bully, reconfirmed by Obama and Kerry’s pathetic performance on Syria.

    I expect Rouhani to make the US an offer that will meet all the US’ stated demands. Obama will dither for a while, but the megalomaniacs (neocons, liberal interventionists and Zionists) will ultimately force his hand. He will move the goalposts and claim that Iran failed to meet US pre-conditions. Rouhani, being the adult in the room, will charge the US with perfidy, intransigence, and an unbridled appetite that is sated only with regime change. People will believe Rouhani, having seen Iraq, Libya and Syria.

    We have seen this script before. Turkey and Brazil did a deal with Iran that met all of Obama’s conditions, only to have Obama nix the deal. Ahmadinejad was unable to capitalize because the West had been able to portray him as unbalanced and dangerous. This time around it will be different.

    The bottom line is that either the US does a deal with Iran or gets validated as the world’s most powerful rogue nation. Apparently, the megalomaniacs would rather stand tall and be loathed than be cooperative and liked.

    At that point the US will have decisively captured the moral low ground. It will become increasingly difficult to push the US agenda.

  36. fyi says:

    JohnH says:
    September 21, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I think that Mr. Khamenei and others who share his views are letting Mr. Rouhani, once again, test Axis Powers.

    He and those who agree with him will not lose anything if Mr. Rouhani succeeds.

    If, on the other hand, Mr. Rouhani’s clear outreach fails, it will end any domestic advocacy for reaching a deal with Axis Powers or US.

    The fact is that no one wants US-Iran rapprochement; not Israel, not Saudi Arabia, not India, not EU, not Russia, not Turkey, an not even China.

  37. A concerned world citizen says:

    The US is in no mood to reach any agreement.. They believe they’ve got Iran pinned down in Syria so why should they negotiate or give anything? As long as there’s an endless supply on wahhabi jihadis out there, the US will continue to bleed Iran in Syria until there’s nothing left of Syria. It’s a cheaper option to an actual open war on Iran. This is war by other means.

    Rouhani, “the moderate” (whatever that means) and his naive clique to, will be saddly disappointed when all this charm turns into nightmares.

    Could it be that the Supreme leader’s given these feckless “moderates” enough rope to hang themselves????

    Im not holding my breath!

  38. James Canning says:

    Concerned,

    The US spends about $1 billion per day on imported oil. A deal with Iran would allow the price of oil to drop by 10 or even 20 percent.

  39. James Canning says:

    JohnH,

    Obama may comprehend he got bad advice from Dennis Ross (and others). (Re: deal brokered by Brazil and Turkey). Obama reportedly sees he followed bad advice on the way forward in Afghanistan, in 2009.

  40. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You clearly have no understanding of the role of the Financial Times and other major newspapers on the inernational scene. None whatever.

  41. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Clearly you have no understanding of how political leaders test a possible course of action, prior to going ahead with it. “Trial balloon”.

  42. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I think Obama is watching for the reaction to the NYT story that his administration may be prepared to accept Iranian enrichment to low levels.

  43. Smith says:

    UK launched another brand new nuclear submarine today (its reactor uses 95% enriched uranium which means that it would not need refueling for its life). It will be armed with nuke tipped missiles: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24171559

  44. Empty says:

    Cemil Cicek (pronounced Jemil Chicheck), the speaker of the Turkish Parliament, is in Iran with a high-ranking delegation. In a press conference held yesterday, a reporter (from Al-Mayadin) asked him: “You’re claiming now that you believe Syria’s problems can only be effectively solved through dialogue and diplomatic venues. Then, how come you provide logistical support to Syrian rebels while these supports are against international desires to solve the Syrian crises?”

    Cicek responded, “this is a prejudicial statement and it’s only an allegation against Turkey that we support the rebels. Certainly, no such a thing exists. With your question, you’re trying to get me admit that we support the Syrian rebels. We must first correct the media’s perspective that such support does not exist and we are just trying to solve the problem.”

    [Source: translation from Farsi; Mehr News Agency, News Code: 2139972]

    As we say in Farsi, عجب دو دره است ….
    How fast the dream of Ottoman rebirth faded…

  45. Dave Kimble says:

    It hasn’t all been negativity from the US administration:
    =====
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dae7c01c-55f8-11de-ab7e-00144feabdc0.html
    Kerry Defends Tehran on Uranium
    June 12, 2009

    In an interview with the Financial Times, John Kerry, the top Democrat on foreign policy in the US Senate, labels the long standing demand that Iran stop enriching uranium as ”ridiculous”.

    […]

    The key here is that, first of all the Bush administration [argument of] no enrichment was ridiculous, on its face, because Iran is a signatory to the [nuclear] Non-Proliferation Treaty and whether they are inside or outside their obligations, to ask them to give up something that was within their rights within the treaty assuming they were up to their obligations is a non-starter. It was bombastic diplomacy. It was wasted energy. … They have a right to peaceful nuclear power and to enrichment in that purpose. But they don’t have a right, obviously, to be outside of the other restraints of the IAEA and of the non-proliferation agreement. And so the key here was to really open a different kind of dialogue with them about where you draw the line.
    ======

    The US also knows that Iran can cause oil markets huge problems without actually being violent, (see http://www.davekimble.org.au/syrias-retaliatory-options.htm – towards the end).

  46. Empty says:

    Bussed-in-Bassiji,

    I am not too sure if the Rouhani and company really doubt the US’s true intentions. It is not a stupid team. However, I do think that his group (similar to Rafsanjani’s group) sometimes overestimate their own ability and perceive themselves to be much more smart than they really are. That is exactly where they are vulnerable and might get duped to do more damage than good. May God guide us away from arrogance.

  47. Don Bacon says:

    June 10, 2009
    US senator opens Iran nuclear debate

    One of the most senior Democrats in Washington has dismissed a key element in the west’s long standing strategy on Iran’s nuclear programme as “ridiculous”. His comments throw open the debate about how far the US and its partners should go in seeking a compromise with Tehran after on Friday’s presidential election.

    John Kerry, chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee and the Democrats’ 2004 presidential nominee, told the Financial Times in an interview that Iran had a right to uranium enrichment – a process that can produce both nuclear fuel and weapons grade material.

    The US and the world’s other big powers have repeatedly demanded that Tehran suspend enrichment – a policy pioneered by the former Bush administration that has since been given the force of international law by successive United Nations Security Council resolutions.

    “The Bush administration [argument of] no enrichment was ridiculous . . . because it seemed so unreasonable to people,” said Mr Kerry, citing Iran’s rights as a signatory of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. “It was bombastic diplomacy. It was wasted energy. It sort of hardened the lines, if you will,” he added. “They have a right to peaceful nuclear power and to enrichment in that purpose.”
    http://julienmercille.blogspot.com/2009/06/john-kerry-says-iran-has-right-to.html

    Kerry has earned his “flip-flopper” sobriquet.

  48. Karl.. says:

    James

    “Low levels”? Uh thats the issue, Iran wont accept any reducing of their rights regarding NPT. As I just said, Obama DONT recognize Iran’s right under the NPT.

  49. Tuyzentfloot says:

    I want to draw a parallel between Iran’s actions now and the theme of the book ‘Going To Tehran’.
    A major concept behind the proposal behind the title is one of effectiveness.
    Effectiveness is about being prepared to be wasteful with resources. It’s about setting priorities and to allocate everything you need to make absolutely sure you achieve that priority, even if it’s three times too much. It’s about not being afraid to do too much, to put in excessive effort.
    The act of going to Tehran is an act that is radical enough so that it can’t be misunderstood. It’s about making sure you don’t do half a job. It’s about being fully committed.
    It can be contrasted with efficiency , which has a completely different focus: that is about getting the most out of the resources.
    Efficiency is afraid to be excessive in investing resources in something. It also wants results but the priorities are different.
    Rouhani is currently piling on initiatives , he’s not afraid to do err on the wasteful side.

    Contrast that with the ridiculous effort at rapprochement Obama did in the beginning and which some people defend as being good enough.

  50. M. Ali says:

    My only real concern is that Rohani doesn’t agree to any one-sided “confidence building” measures.

    Thats a completely moronic concept that goes against to all established negotiations.

  51. nico says:

    M. Ali says:
    September 22, 2013 at 4:35 am

    One sided concession from Iran is not likely.
    The unilateral sanctions should been lifted accordingly.
    Not likely either.

  52. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 21, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    “Nico,
    You clearly have no understanding of the role of the Financial Times and other major newspapers on the inernational scene. None whatever.”

    I fully understand that the presstitute is propaganda mouthpiece in the hands of the oligarchy which you blindly follow.
    As for Kerry statement that is BS. He is totally demonetized.
    Just like the QE which everybody say is suicidal and lead to weimar hyperinflation and the US final collapse.
    No need to say that whatever FT comments an bullshiting that will change NOTHING in the Federal Reserve Policy.

    James Canning says:
    September 21, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    “Nico,
    Clearly you have no understanding of how political leaders test a possible course of action, prior to going ahead with it. “Trial balloon”.”

    Trial balloon ?
    That is pathetic and disgusting lack of leadership.
    Whether the administration has the power to define a policy or not.
    For the time being the US administration is totally powerless has decision is made in the congress and there is zero chance for the congress to change position.
    Even less with a pathetic “trial ballon”.
    My opinion is that is only PR and empty words.

  53. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    kooshy-jan,

    He was on TV last night telling (indirectly criticizing?) the diplomats to negotiate from a position of strength in New York.

    And those you have so far blamed everything on Islam, Imam and SL will do the same this time as well…this the “maraz” that the Quran speaks about. The Quran also compares them to dogs who are panting while their tongues are out- no matter what signs God shows them they are still panting like dogs with their tongues out.

    Empty-jan,

    Rohani is pretty realistic about the US, but Zarif has invested his political life in detente. And yes of course they are not as smart as they think.

    Jalili pointed out in the presidential debates that 8 years of Rafsanjani “constructive engagement” ended in an international arrest warrant against Akbar-joon himself (oops!) and 8 years of “dialogue of civilizations” ended in being called “axis of evil” (aye baba!).

    Let’s see with which “bouquet of flowers” the Americans will send the President and Jenabe Zarif home.

  54. BiBiJon says:

    I have a dream ….
    ==================

    I think folks have covered all the possible negative angles of those who might seek an end to the war. In a nutshell, regardless of circumstances, they’re panting dogs, because that’s what panting dogs do; they are westoxicated and seek validation from the lords; they are weak-willed morons, habitual wet-dreamers, etc.

    Just for variety’s sakes. . . .

    What if:

    -US were (or should be) surprised not just at Iran’s resilience, but her gains in the face of unrelenting attacks upon her and her interests.

    -US were (or should be) cognizant of Iran’s immutable ‘sacred defense’ demonstrated 20 years ago, and today, added to that grit, is a formidable missile force in the hands of a battle-hardened military with eyes and ears that detects the slightest intrusion.

    What if:

    -Iran were (should be) surprised by US’ success in marshaling, and maintaining 3rd party economic sanctions.

    -Iran were (or should be) surprised at US’ success at manipulating interpol, UN, UNSC, IAEA, etc.

    Then …

    it might be time to probe to see if both sides are not ready to admit (quietly) their own limitations born out of a mountain of evidence, and choose to give hostilities a rest, and give one another time to devise better battle plans, or modus vivendi?

    Iran is not an insecure little pleb that seeks cultural validation from non-Iranians. She is a winner among winners. We should get used to the idea that Iran is powerful, and she is a winner. We should also get used to the idea that, all in all, Iran’s main adversaries are not powerless and are not losers.

    Whether or not Mr Zarif is the best person to promote the above paradigm, I guess we shall see. But, I have no doubt that Mr. Rouhani’s candidacy for the SL slot depends on Zarif’s success, and not on how Mr Rouhani handles Zarif’s failure.

  55. Fiorangela says:

    Tuyzentfloot says:
    September 22, 2013 at 4:26 am

    “Effectiveness is about being prepared to be wasteful with resources.
    . . . efficiency is about getting the most out of the resources.

    Rouhani is [acting effectively.]”

    Agree with your keen analysis, up to this point.

    However, Obama is not operating “efficiently” or even “good enough.” He’s attempting to make counterproductivity look like cooperative engagement.

  56. BiBiJon says:

    Ethics, journalism, and (lack of) comradery
    ======================================

    http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/syria-ap-journalist-denies-blaming-chemical-attack-on-rebels/

    So Dale Gavlak,, because of the article, has been suspended by the Associated Press.

    I note George Jahn had zero problems with his articles, such as the infamous
    “AP Exclusive: Graph suggests Iran working on bomb” story.

  57. M. Ali says:

    Bibijon, I have complete respect for your positition. My skepticism isn’t about a hope for relationships to continue failing. I HOPE we have a lasting peace. I’m in Iran, and I’m no Bussed-in-Basij, nor probably a non-materialistic, spiritual guru like some other members. I wouldn’t mind things working out, would probably be much more effective in the managerial position I have been lucky to have been given the responsibility of.

    However, my skepticism lies in the fact that the crucial and the underlying problem that has been the driving force between the nations has not been changed.

    Iran wants to remain strongly independant.
    USA doesn’t want Iran to be self-sufficient, independant regional player.

    Until one of the two countries have a change in their objectives, I can’t imagine how they will reconcile their differences.

    Iran could solve a lot of their problems by relinquishing some of their independance, and becoming more like Turkey, Jordan, Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia, but would we willing to do this?

    USA could accept Iran’s position, if it is willing to have a economically strong regional player that is fiercly independant in one of the crucial regions of the world, and are they willing to accept this?

    Even if they take small steps towards each other, but these crucial reassesments are not handled, I can’t imagine a scenario where it won’t fail. That’s why I do not think it is necessary just about Obama or Bush or Ahmedinijad or Rohani, but about the big plans each nations has for their own country.

  58. M. Ali says:

    From
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/20/barack-obama-hassan-rouhani-iran-un

    “One diplomatic source said the newly-empowered pragmatist wing in Iran had displayed “some pretty fancy footwork” in recent weeks in preparing the groundwork for the UN meeting, but Rouhani’s delegation needed to convince western powers that it was serious about giving ground on nuclear enrichment, in return for an easing of sanctions. ”

    This is why I’m not optimistic. The important part is this, “but Rouhani’s delegation needed to convince western powers that it was serious about giving ground on nuclear enrichment”

    The rest of the article seems to be point out that the reason that Iran is being more pragmastic is that the sanctions have really been biting. Again, the narrative that we are seeing isn’t positive. Its being spinned that the pressure on Iran is finally bearing fruit with an Iran that is now, finally, willing to listen to USA’s demands.

    What could come out of such a menatlity? The only way we can be successful, from what I can see, is that if Iran really, actually, DOES give in to USA’s demands. Then, yes, we have laid the groundworks for “reconcillation”.

    The reason that US is being positive is that they are hoping that, finally, Iran would be willing to listen to their demands.

  59. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    BibiJon,

    “But, I have no doubt that Mr. Rouhani’s candidacy for the SL slot depends on Zarif’s success, and not on how Mr Rouhani handles Zarif’s failure.”

    Consider that in Jafari law a “vali” has to live at the level of “faqir” in his city whereas a normal rohani can live an average lifestyle.

    “Sade-zisti” was one of the factors that put Seyyed Ali over the top, that and being Sayyid. His and his family’s sade-zisti remain main factors of SL’s popularity. He even said that he will not accept khastegars for his daughters who are business people. That one really shook the asharafiyoon…

    I’m also sure you’re familiar with Imam’s 60 sq meter place in Jamaran…which he rented…

    Any akhund living in a big house in Zafaraniyeh- like Jenabe Rohani- has little chances of being SL. More Rafsanjani rather than Imam if you know what I mean.

    He would need to move to the south/central of Tehran to a small house to be in the running (I doubt Haj Khanum would be happy about this)…also he’s not a Sayyid…

    Put two in the negative column.

  60. M. Ali says:

    Bussed in Basij,

    “His and his family’s sade-zisti remain main factors of SL’s popularity. He even said that he will not accept khastegars for his daughters who are business people.”

    I guess if a young Mohammad Ibn Abdullah had come for khastegari, he wouldn’t be accepted, because he was a merchant/business man?

  61. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali,

    You are familiar with some the hayvans that are “merchants” in Iran today, so his ihtiyat in this matter was very reasonable. You might want to reconsider that comparison with the Prophet (sawas), nazaret chi-e?

    Anyway they all have husbands now- sorry dadash.

  62. Persian Gulf says:

    BiBiJon says:
    September 22, 2013 at 7:52 am

    I would be really happy if the rapprochement materializes, though I see is very unlikely at this point. and I think what Rohani does on the PR side is a good thing. However, please be advised that the sort of romanticism you are making could easily lead to the problem Iran faced in the aftermath of 2009 election.

    It is safe to say it now that the 2009 election aftermath was mostly due to the same romanticism of Obama presidency. not that it did not exist before, rather the delusion, and the courage to challenge the system to that level, was mainly due to a presumably dashed hope aroused from Obama’s election.

    We have a class that is in bed with the west mentally. It’s a slave mentality. and you can only deal so much with it.

  63. fyi says:

    M. Ali says:
    September 22, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Axis Powers leader almost certainly estimate that Iranians are approaching them from a weakened position.

    They will not alter their demands on Iran.

    Inside the United States, the desire for war against Syria and then Iran persists; it is not discredited, only delayed.

    The Americans removed any strategic ambiguity regarding their ultimate aims vis-à-vis Iran subsequent to August 21, 2013 events.

    The Zarif-Rouhani diplomatic outreach was conceived and publicly declared before that time.

    Mr. Rouhani now has to continue with that diplomatic endeavor even though there is zero chance for it to succeed due the strategic clarity that Mr. Obama brought to bear.

    Iran and Axis Powers are on opposite sides on

    Afghanistan
    Syria
    Palestine
    Iraq
    Persian Gulf
    NPT

    These cannot be addressed in separate manner; only a grand strategic understanding between the United States and Iran could address all of these intertwined items.

    One requisite for that would be a US President who is capable of initiating such a course of action.

    Mr. Obama has demonstrated that he is not that man.

  64. Rehmat says:

    Nope. Washington cannot say NO to Israel Lobby.

    When you read American political system from objective sources, you discover that the Jewish lobby groups have major influence in shaping America’s foreign policy. In 2010, Hollywood filmmaker, Oliver Stone, in an interview with British daily Sunday Times – in response to why there was “such a focus on the Holocaust”, had replied: “The Jewish domination of the media. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy for years.”

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/02/20/washington-cannot-say-no-to-jewish-lobby/

  65. James Canning says:

    The New York Times today proposed that Iran be invited to help Russia and the US get rid of Syria’s nukes. Good idea.

  66. James Canning says:

    Syria’s CW. Getting rid of Israel’s nukes should be high on the agenda too.

  67. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Many well-informed Americans think the Israel lobby is undermining the national security of the nation. Iran should do what it can to help these Americans counter the endless war the Israel lobby promotes in the Middle East, to “protect” Israel.

  68. James Canning says:

    Persian Gulf,

    I think one does well to focus on individuals. Obama relied on cr*p advice from Dennis Ross, who boasts of his ties to rich and powerful Jews whose support Obama needs to keep. Ross played a key role in wrecking or blocking Obama’s plan to “reach out” to Iran in 2009.

    Philip Stephens in the Financial Times two days ago reminded his readers that Obama’s plan to reach out to Iran was crippled by his failure to make clear he did not seek regime change in Iran. The neocons and most of the Israel lobby wanted regime change.

  69. James Canning says:

    Rehmat,

    Aipac worked flat out to pressure Obama into attacking Syria. And continues it effort.

    Oliver Stone suggests that the heavy emphasis on the Holocaust is used by the Israel lobby to dupe the American people into supporting actions by Israel that damage US interests.

  70. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You once again demonstrate you have no understanding of the role of newspapers of record etc etc. Or of “trial balloons”.

    How many people on this site say “the US” will not accept ANY Iranian enrichment?
    Financial Times for years has argued acceptance to low levels is necessary to enable a deal.

  71. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    A fundamental flaw in your approach is you apparent inablility to grasp the fact that differences of opinion can be found among the “1%” (or whatever term you prefer).

    Subtlety and nuance clearly are “not your thing”.

  72. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You apparently think the Federal Reserve in the USA should tighten money supply, to force a rise in interest rates? This would strengthen the US dollar. Is that what you think should be achieved?

  73. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    I can assure you many powerful business interests in the US would welcome a rich, self-sufficient Iran. Able to do a great deal of business.

  74. kooshy says:

    3- و اما، نگاهی – هر چند گذرا- به آنچه رهبر معظم انقلاب از دهها سال قبل تاکنون درباره مفهوم «نرمش قهرمانانه» بیان کرده‌اند، نشان می‌دهد رسانه‌ها و محافل یاد شده داخلی و خارجی، در تفسیر و برداشت از این واژه به همان راهی رفته‌اند که استاد مورد اشاره در بند اول یادداشت پیش‌روی رفته بود. یعنی مفهوم واژه یاد شده را از آرزوهای تاکنون بر زمین مانده خویش گرفته و برای تأیید آن به بیان حضرت آقا استناد کرده‌اند و این در حالی است که رهبر معظم انقلاب واژه «نرمش قهرمانانه» را بدون تعریف دقیق رها نفرموده‌اند. از جمله آن که؛
    الف: ایشان در جمع فرماندهان سپاه این نرمش را به نرمش کشتی‌گیری تشبیه می‌کنند که اولاً؛ فراموش نمی‌کند طرفش کیست. ثانیاً؛ می‌داند مشغول چه کاری است (مبارزه) ثالثاً؛ می‌فهمد که دارد چه کاری می‌کند (بهره‌گیری از تاکتیک برای غلبه بهتر و بیشتر بر حریف) و رابعاً؛ آماج حمله حریف (دشمن) را می‌شناسد. آیا این «نرمش» 3- و اما، نگاهی – هر چند گذرا- به آنچه رهبر معظم انقلاب از دهها سال قبل تاکنون درباره مفهوم «نرمش قهرمانانه» بیان کرده‌اند، نشان می‌دهد رسانه‌ها و محافل یاد شده داخلی و خارجی، در تفسیر و برداشت از این واژه به همان راهی رفته‌اند که استاد مورد اشاره در بند اول یادداشت پیش‌روی رفته بود. یعنی مفهوم واژه یاد شده را از آرزوهای تاکنون بر زمین مانده خویش گرفته و برای تأیید آن به بیان حضرت آقا استناد کرده‌اند و این در حالی است که رهبر معظم انقلاب واژه «نرمش قهرمانانه» را بدون تعریف دقیق رها نفرموده‌اند. از جمله آن که؛
    الف: ایشان در جمع فرماندهان سپاه این نرمش را به نرمش کشتی‌گیری تشبیه می‌کنند که اولاً؛ فراموش نمی‌کند طرفش کیست. ثانیاً؛ می‌داند مشغول چه کاری است (مبارزه) ثالثاً؛ می‌فهمد که دارد چه کاری می‌کند (بهره‌گیری از تاکتیک برای غلبه بهتر و بیشتر بر حریف) و رابعاً؛ آماج حمله حریف (دشمن) را می‌شناسد. آیا این «نرمش» به مفهوم عقب‌نشینی و به قول ورزشی‌نویسان واگذاری کشتی به حریف است

    http://www.kayhan.ir/920631/2.htm
    This Kyhan editorial try to
    expand and explain on what ayatollah Khamenie means when he said “heroic flexibility ” and compered it to tactics used by wrestlers to gain points from opponent.
    That how much room he means there is to give space to negotiate on Iran’s side.

    It looks like there is no blank check in Mr Rouhani’s pocket and that is the real danger with the media hoopla on both sides. Again if the pleasantries don’t materialize to anything substantive I hope in Iran they are smart enough not to let the Reformers and Raf side put the blame on SL

  75. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    You are concerned about any “giving of ground” (nuclear enrichment)? By Iran?

    Do you think Saeed Jalili was correct when he told the Financial Times that enriching to 20 was not especially important? For Iran.

  76. James Canning says:

    Pungent comment by foremer assistant to Colin Powell, Col. Larry Wilkerson: “Netanyahu’s allies in people like Senator John McCain, Senator Linsey Graham. . . and others who or bordering on being traitors, in my view, because they won’t let [Obama] have room to achieve a diplomatic solution.” [nuclear dispute with Iran]

  77. James Canning says:

    Wilkerson was Powell’s aide when Powell was duped by George Tenet, as part of the scheme to set up the illegal US invasion of Iraq.

  78. Karl.. says:

    James are you ignoring my question?

    September 22, 2013 at 1:04 pm

  79. nico says:

    James Canning says:September 22, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    “Nico,You once again demonstrate you have no understanding of the role of newspapers of record etc etc. Or of “trial balloons”.How many people on this site say “the US” will not accept ANY Iranian enrichment?Financial Times for years has argued acceptance to low levels is necessary to enable a deal.”

    The nuclear issue is bogus from the very start.
    Iran never intended to build a bomb. NEVER.
    And everybody serious know this.
    Iran respect of CW ban while it is much easier to get that.
    It proves that Iran is a principled and respectable nation.

    You are the only idiot on this site to assume the nuclear issue to be other thing that a fabricated case for western warmongering and pressure over Iran.
    As such, the goal has always been for the west to deprive Iran of its right and to victimize Iran.
    As a logical consequence the level of enrichment is not the issue and never had been the issue and never will be the issue.

    The issue is the western criminal behaviour and supremacism.

    And your FT solid BS is only that.

    YOU are the IDIOT on this site.
    So proud and so nunanced about the 5 and 20% that you do not even see the obvious.
    The debate NEVER has been there.

    I confirm. The FT and other MSM are the sewers carrying the garbage of the oligarchy.
    The sewer in which it seems you are happy enough to swim every day in.

  80. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    “Nico,You apparently think the Federal Reserve in the USA should tighten money supply, to force a rise in interest rates? This would strengthen the US dollar. Is that what you think should be achieved?”

    Actually there is no solution.
    The current standard of living in the west is only sustained by debt and paper money backed by nothing.
    The only thing to expect is collapse and dictatorship in order to manage the mass.
    War is also a solution.
    The Vodoo economics are only temporary and making the eventual and invetable collapse worse.

  81. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Iran has done a good job of convincing numerous European leaders that Iran is trying to get close to ability to build nukes quickly.

    Are these leaders correct in believing Iran is trying to get close to ability to build nukes quickly.

    I entirely agree with you the nuclear dispute is used as a pretext for anti-ran measures sought by Israel lobby and some Arab leadders.

  82. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You think Germany is nearing the point of “collapse”? Absurd.

  83. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You favor a return to the gold standard?

  84. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I do not see your question. You appear to say Iran will refuse to suspend enriching to 20? Please clarify.

  85. Karl.. says:

    James

    Exactly thats why I asked you about “low levels?” You dont seem to understand that there is no support for obama to recognize Iran’s right to enrich.

  86. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    “Nico,You think Germany is nearing the point of “collapse”? Absurd.”

    Absolutely.
    Germany has major issues.
    First they have a demographic issue. With an aging polpulation projected to shrink by 10 to 20% in 2050.
    Second they have a 90% debt and are locked in the Euro.
    Third they are totally integrated in the world economy. When the world economy collapse as it shall, then Germany will suffer directly and will collapse the same .

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    “Nico,You favor a return to the gold standard?”

    Honestly I believe the gold to be an asset like others.
    The exchange value be it of gold or any other asset or paper money is theoritically fixed through belief it their value.
    The intrinsic value of gold is near zero. (Different from food or transportation vehicles for example which have usage value).

    The issue today with the USD is first the reckless and irresponsible way it is managed.
    Second it is unjust for one country to hold the main money used by others.

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 2:27 pm
    “Nico,Iran has done a good job of convincing numerous European leaders that Iran is trying to get close to ability to build nukes quickly.”

    That is pure lie.
    I do not even need to elaborate this one.
    Just think by yourself few seconds.

  87. Persian Gulf says:

    Fiorangela says:
    September 21, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    After watching the video, I would say (from a lay person’s perspective that has no interest, nor much info, in either side) if there was any doubt about Hitler being a mad man, that is cleared now. The video unsuccessfully tries to show a logical and innocent face of Hitler.

    It’s obvious he used one excuse after another to grab more lands. suffice to say that the treatment of minority Germans in Poland and Czechoslovakia wasn’t that widespread that the producers of the video had to use a single, unknown, scene over and over again.

    Occupation of Warsaw looks unnecessary from this video. He could simply stop after annexation of the area between east Prussia and Germany. The excuse to occupy Czechoslovakia is very thin too. So is the one to attack USSR and Norway. as if they could count the number of people and tanks in the USSR side prior to the attack. The attack on USSR, as you know, was well thought. Hitler, in the same way as Saddam, thought Stalin’s purge of key generals prior to the war weakened USSR army considerably that an easy win would be within their reach. Tanks with new suspension system had an important factor in winning the war by the Soviets as well. But he was too arrogant that he thought if he starts in June, he would finish the war before winter starts.

    Look at the declaration of war with the US here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G57GKUtWzNs

    In this video he basically says the countries he occupied (France, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Czechoslovakia…) do not exist on the map anymore. So there was no need to recognize their governments in exile.

    No wonder the racial aspect is not mentioned in the video. nor their treatment of minorities and disabled people. btw, who does that? it seems to me that racial aspect played a role in their eventual defeat from Britain. They were hopeful till the last minute that their brothers in that fu***** island would accept them. Eastern Europe was their main focus because they considered eastern Europeans sub-human. If Nazis were not damn racist, they could have still be around as a great power.

    I can only say his stupidity, arrogance, and failure brought misery to the middle east and to Iran too. The misery on European people need not be explained.

  88. James Canning says:

    Zhu Guangayo, deputy finance minister of China: “Military action [by US in Syria] would have a negative impact on the global economy, especially on the oil price – – it will cause a hike in the oil price.” Quoted in The Times (London) Sept 6

  89. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Are you claiming many European leaders do not think Iran is trying to get close to an ability to build nukes quickly?

    Or, are you arguing that their thinking is simply wrong and that Iran’s actions in no way should be taken as suggesting a possible desire to be in a position to build nukes quickly?

  90. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Many people agree with you that the US in effect is printing too many dollars. A tightening of the US money supply would push up interest rates and strengthen the dollar. You favour the euro as an alternative to the dollar?

  91. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I think Germany clearly is one of the strongest countries on the planet. You seem to think it is nearing collapse. Amazing.

  92. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I think Obama likely wanted the NYT to report that some of his advisers think Iran should be allowed to enrich to low levels.

  93. Rd. says:

    fyi says:

    “Mr. Rouhani now has to continue with that diplomatic endeavor even though there is zero chance for it to succeed due the strategic clarity that Mr. Obama brought to bear.”

    If your assertion is, these are futile efforts, I am reminded of an old saying;

    In every gain, there is a loss and in every loss, there is a gain.

    If you were to view such efforts, in the prism of US, yes that could be considered correct. However, US is not the whole world and one should also consider its impact on others.

    To consider the efforts by Khatami (et all) as waste, probably are not correct either. Not that in first impression I’d support such attempts. However, I am guided by a comment [from Empty?] some time ago re SL and his approach. During Iran/Iraq war he advised against an open war on Kuwait, despite Kw open support of Saddam, arguing differences between Kuwait and saddam [proved to be correct]. Further, SL approach to Taliban murder of IRI diplomats. It would have been easy to justify war on Taliban. One can only imagine the negative impact of that.

    To use every opportunity to engage US, has its benefits as well, so long as principals are not sacrificed.

    Just imagine the damage from a simple propaganda against IRI from the Argentine bombing (90s) compared to DC-Bulgeria bombing propaganda. US had a hard time to even sell that DC [crap] in US, let alone rest of the world. How could that be different, if IRI had not shown [principled] pragmatism (even ‘some’ compromise) for gains that may not be obvious at the time.

  94. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    “Nico,

    I think Germany clearly is one of the strongest countries on the planet. You seem to think it is nearing collapse. Amazing.”

    Germany is only as strong as its customers.
    Germany has an export oriented economy.
    When the collapse hit there will be no more export.

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    “Nico,

    Many people agree with you that the US in effect is printing too many dollars. A tightening of the US money supply would push up interest rates and strengthen the dollar. You favour the euro as an alternative to the dollar?”

    We passed the point of no return. The collapse will hit.
    There are 2 major issues.
    First a major unbalance in the global economy.
    Then there is debt.

    The US by refusing the structural reforms and accepting minor depression a decade ago created a time bomb.

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    “Nico,

    Are you claiming many European leaders do not think Iran is trying to get close to an ability to build nukes quickly?

    Or, are you arguing that their thinking is simply wrong and that Iran’s actions in no way should be taken as suggesting a possible desire to be in a position to build nukes quickly?”

    I think they fully know there is no bomb and there is no program to get there.
    And I think that they fully know that even if Iran get a bomb there is no risk.
    No more risk than Pak or India or Israel.

    The only risk the loss of their strategic superiority.
    The current policy is based on supremacism. That it.

  95. Cyrus says:

    FWIW color me skeptical about anything changing with respect to US-Iran relations. The current speculative hype and wishful-thinking, we’ve all experienced before. The reality is that nothing’s really changed and the fundamentals of this conflict are still very much with us. Israel and AIPAC have not gone away nor died to allow the US and Iran to experience any sort of detente or rapprochement. The US and Iranian position on enrichment are still mutually exclusive and contradictory. The only question is whether the US media can present Iran and Rouhani as the spoiler for not being “ready to make serious concessions to end the confct” thus of course shifting the burden of fault for the failed negotiations onto Iran — exactly what we’re seeing.

  96. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    European leaders see that an effort by Iran to get too close to ability to build nukes quickly, will bring blockade and possible war to the Gulf. And Iran continues to give indications it wants to get close to that ability.

  97. James Canning says:

    Cyrus,

    Aipac and ADL campaign to get US involved in war with Syria to set up war with Iran obviously has run into some problems.

  98. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Your confidence global depression is near at hand is overdone. In my view.

  99. Dan Cooper says:

    The United States had no problem with Saddam Hussein using chemical gas during the Iran-Iraq war against Iran.

    The United States has said nothing about Israel use of white phosphorous munitions both in Gaza, Operation Cast Lead in 2009 or Israeli induced white phosphorous murders in southern Lebanon in that conflict.

    War crimes are okay as long as they are being committed by people that control the Israeli government or people who are fulfilling the Israeli agenda.

    the Israeli lobbies control the American Congress and Senate as well as the executive branch of the government.

    It is murderous and once again the criminality of the Zionist regime over many years is unfortunately now mirrored by the criminality of an American government that has been in league with these people since the late 1940’s.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/09/06/322430/us-has-no-problem-with-israeli-crimes/

  100. fyi says:

    Rd. says:
    September 22, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    I am not objecting to these diplomatic moves and their potentially beneficial effects on audiences outside of the Axis Powers dominion.

    I am stating that this diplomacy is still-born; the events of the past month have left it dated.

    I could be wrong and the coming week could demonstrate that.

  101. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    September 22, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    I will add my voice to the column of “could be wrong”! In fact, I would like to be wrong in this case.

    As Cyrus has also pointed out, the dynamics has change little. Specifically, I view the current events a tactical move by both Iran on one side and the US and Western allies on the other side – this is not strategic repositioning. It is tactical maneuvering, even if the coming week bears surprises.

    However, I believe that the outcome will not be known in the coming weeks – perhaps several months to a few years is the right timescale.

  102. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm
    Its called the japan option james and is a consequence of a nation having the fuel cycle and it is perfectly okay for iran to have that option,if the west was truly worried about a breakout capability then it was pretty stupid of them not to supply iran with the fuel for the trr,it was also pretty stupid not to agree on a deal that recognizes irans nuclear rights in return for voluntary limits on irans enrichment levels.The longer the west waits the more credible irans japan option becomes.War is not a credible option for the west but it just cant bring itself to do a deal,so it just continues to hope that iran will surrender,sadly I get the feeling that many in the west hope that that is what rouhani will do

  103. Sineva says:

    M. Ali says:
    September 22, 2013 at 9:53 am
    I agree,it looks as tho` the west is trying to spin this as a success for its policies of sanctions and threats

  104. Tuyzentfloot says:

    @Fiorangela: I don’t disagree. I thought it was worthwile to mention this concept of effectiveness because it casts the discussion in terms of ‘how’ instead of ‘what’ and that’s rarely done. The ‘what’ being the strategic goals and the ‘how’ being the implementation. One could argue that these two can’t be separated , and ‘Going to Tehran’ does in fact cover both, but in any case, people always talk about the ‘what’. What does Obama want.

    I just notice that Stephen Walt is also talking about the ‘how’ , and he’s using the words from politics like ‘costly signal’. (I picked up ‘effectiveness’ in management literature) : http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/09/20/is_rouhani_sincere_iran_nuclear_deal . He’s using the example of Sadat going to Israel.

  105. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    “Nico,Your confidence global depression is near at hand is overdone. In my view.”

    I never said that it will happen tomorow morning.
    There is no if. There is only when.
    Nobody knows for sure when.

    Remember the Argentina crisis ?

    By the way it is not limited to western countries.
    Others have their share.
    What form it would take remain to see.
    All countries heavily involved in the global economy will be hit.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-21/chinas-ghost-cities-are-multiplying

  106. Karl.. says:

    James

    September 22, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Thats the problem you dont understand, obama WONT accept Iran to enrich according/NPT.

  107. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm
    “Nico,European leaders see that an effort by Iran to get too close to ability to build nukes quickly, will bring blockade and possible war to the Gulf. And Iran continues to give indications it wants to get close to that ability.”

    With the looming global depression risk of war is there anyway.
    Only potential nuclear deterrence capability will save Iran.

  108. Khorshid says:

    M. Ali says:
    September 21, 2013 at 3:16 am

    There needs to be a huge shoulder built in tehran, for all the optimistic Iranians to cry on after they realized that nothing positive will come out of this.

    Empty says:
    September 21, 2013 at 3:56 am

    Why waste the resource. Instead of a huge shoulder to cry on, I think it would be a good idea if we took them all to Urumieh Lake so that they could dump their tears in there to prevent it from drying up.

    Thank you Ali and Empty for putting it such an intelligent and humorous way. MashaAllah. I enjoyed reading both comments. It brought a big smile on my face – well done, excellent staff it was.

    Rohani’s interview with NBC

    It was a sad interview to watch. It was same stale questions. I know American press cannot think critically to ask good questions but don’t they ever get bored of asking the same questions over and over gain – I guess not !!

    However, Rohani did not get annoyed when same questions were asked three times. The only think he said was “don’t you think the question was asked three times?”. Compare this with Rohani’s individual interview with IRIB 1 before the election debates where he called the interviewer “besavad” just because he did not like the question. When it comes to Iranian journalists he is rude and impolite but when it comes to American journalists he is polite and smiling. What does it say about Rohani as a personality.

    Iran-US rapprochement !!!

    Highly unlikely – near impossible. Richard Hass gave a speech on “national security”, “foreign policy”, and “grand strategy” recently where he explained US national security strategy. He clearly sees US a dominant force and does not believe that US can be confronted or that US has gradually got weaker and unable to have things its way in international arena. With policy makers like this it is impossible for US to accept Iran and its viewpoint. It will take another 20 years for US to realize that their days of world hegemony is over, but again after 20 years Iran or anybody else will not need to negotiate with US anymore – US will be to weak and irrelevant by than.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMocq5otDys

  109. Richard Steven Hack says:

    The Pollyannas are once again building up hope for a diplomatic solution to the nuclear issue and will once again have their hopes dashed.

    Meanwhile, Obama is pressuring Russia in order to lay the groundwork for a UN Resolution authorizing military force against Syria. This clearly shows where Obama’s intentions lie.

    These are facts, not speculation or wishful thinking.

    The Chapter 7 Controversy: Washington Pressuring Moscow into passing UN Resolution on Syria allowing for Military Intervention: Lavrov
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-chapter-7-controversy-washington-pressuring-moscow-into-passing-un-resolution-on-syria-allowing-for-military-intervention-lavrov/5350906

  110. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Meanwhile, Russia provides new evidence as the provenance of the chemical weapons used in Ghouti and elsewhere…

    Gas Missiles ‘Were Not Sold To Syria’
    http://www.zcommunications.org/gas-missiles-were-not-sold-to-syria-by-robert-fisk.html

    In other words, the results of Obama’s LAST military intervention were used by Syrian insurgents in a false flag attack to justify his NEW intervention.

  111. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Details of the Mint Press controversy here, indicating the story was legitimate and is now being backtracked under pressure…

    Syria: Controversy surrounding MintPress Chemical Weapons Ghouta Report
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-controversy-surrounding-mintpress-chemical-weapons-ghouta-report/5350934

  112. Richard Steven Hack says:

    How the Syrian Chemical Weapons Videos Were Staged
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-the-syrian-chemical-weapons-videos-were-staged/5350471

    It seems a number of Syrians were kidnapped days before, then transported to the mostly empty target areas, and then gassed.

  113. Richard Steven Hack says:

    More on the ISTEAMS report…

    Syria: Fabricating Chemical Lies. Who is Behind the East Ghouta Attacks?
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-fabricating-chemical-lies-who-is-behind-the-east-ghouta-attacks/5350211

  114. Richard Steven Hack says:

    And more…

    The Chemical Attacks in East Ghouta Used to Justify a Military Intervention in Syria
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-chemical-attacks-in-east-ghouta-used-to-justify-a-military-intervention-in-syria/5349928

  115. Richard Steven Hack says:

    If Obama is using the Ghouti attack as an excuse for war, and if that attack is the result of kidnapped children being murdered by CW, then what does that say about Obama? He’s willing to use the murdered innocent children to further his war intentions. How cold is that?

    The Pollyannas here really don’t comprehend how corrupt and vicious Obama really is.

  116. M.Ali says:

    Richard, thanks for the link regarding the Chapter 7 controversy. I did a google and found the RT link
    http://rt.com/news/us-russia-syria-resolution-pressure-202/

    and I think it is important for readers here to look at it. The grounds have been laid during the last few months/years, not for a historical diplomatic approaches to situations, but a side-taking alliance in the future. Bush was right, countries are either with them or against them, there is no fence anymore. Countries & political entities have to choose with side they sit on. Turkey failed with their approach of acting like they could be friends with everyone. Russia saw that they couldn’t agree to US demands and still carve their own path to the future.

  117. BiBiJon says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 23, 2013 at 7:33 am

    Also, thanks to Richard for highlighting the mini storm brewing over MistPress, Ms. Gavlak, and the Saudi connections to Gouta.

    Not to appear as a Pollyanna, please imagine every sentence below contains an uncouth invective, and unnecessary phrases denigrating alternative views.

    I smell desperation, ineptitude, incompetence, and weakness.

    -Saudi’s have failed to convince a majority of Sunni Syrians to side with violent insurgency. For, if they had, as Assad asks poignantly, how could he have lasted nearly three years, when unpopular dictators have been toppled in a matter weeks after start of street demonstrations. This is no small failure. If you cannot arouse even an impoverished Sunni majority in an Alewite-ruled, Iran-allied, country, and you’ve spent billions, then your competence comes under question, and your ‘leadership’ of the other (P)GCC countries starts to look like entitlement rather than meritorious.

    -Obama is more likely to be against involvement in Syria. Everything he has done post 8/21 is a copy of his response to the British, French allegations of CW use in March. He goes along up to a point so as not to totally alienate the ‘allies’, but finds an exit ramp at the end. In March it was a lot of foot dragging about uncertainty of chain of custody, eventually morphing into several small scale attacks. with the latest British/French allegations, his exit ramp was to ask congress for an OK, while enlisting AIPAC and Israel’s support to lobby congress. Obama’s game was to say quit trying to convince me, convince congress, and waited for them to fail because he knew a priori what the public mood was.

    So, what is Kerry up to asking for chapter 7? Essentially the same thing. To appear completely in line with KSA, Israel, UK, and France on the surface, while behind the scenes assured there’s no way Russia will accept the chapter 7 language. In other words, he is pointlessly sparring with Lavrov for appearances sakes.

    Meanwhile, the drip-drip of contradictory information, evidence, etc. will undercut the already weak foundations for pushing US into war. Time is on peace’s side.

    Am I saying Obama is an angel? No. Am I saying he does not want war with Iran via Syria? Yes. Why? Because a Saudi Wahhabi ideological ascendency is a ridiculously high price to pay for clipping Iran’s feathers.

  118. M.Ali says:

    Bibijon, regarding Saudi,

    The Gulf countries plans are just completely confusing. They just seem to throw money around. In some regional countries, they support the Islamic Extremists, and in some others, the Monarchists, not really realizing that the two are in conflict. What exactly do they see as the future of the region? All monarchies? Then why are they supporting the anti-monarchists Jihadists. Or if they are for spread of Islam extremism, then why do they put them down in their own countries?

    Iran’s strategy for the last 30 days has been more or less consistant. If they have clash with their allies, its because the allies decide to change their strategy, not them. Like what happened with Hamas, who suddenly decided that Qatar and the Egyptian MB are the new hot thing, breaking up with Iran, only to realize that Egypt MB was overthrown, Qatar found a new hot thing to spend money on, and Hamas is left with an angry ex-boyfriend.

    Decades from now, it would be almost a joke about how bad the gulf countries foreign policy had been. They have been swimming in money, had a pacicified populance due to filling their mouths with both good food and philipino maids, backing of a superpower, and yet had an absolutely no long term plan.

    This was offtangent.

  119. M.Ali says:

    Bibijon, why does it always seem that USA’s leader are being “forced” into war. You put the blame on USA’s EU allies, Israel, and Saudi, who are trying to force USA’s hands. USA has been playing the reluctant world power since forever. They were “forced” in war after war.

  120. M.Ali says:

    Did Rohani really say this? “”Unfortunately in recent years the face of Iran, a great and civilized nation, has been presented in another way,” Rouhani said, according to comments published on his official website. “I and my colleagues will take the opportunity to present the true face of Iran as a cultured and peace-loving country,””

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/23/us-iran-nuclear-idUSBRE98M0IW20130923

    I dont know the context, but if is alluding to Ahmadenijad, than its shameful approach from Rohani.

  121. BiBiJon says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 23, 2013 at 9:39 am

    US’ Gung-hoism with large scale wars I think came to an end with the paltry results of the AfPak surge.

    It is since then that leading from behind, and now leading from way behind, has become the calling card. For the alliances around the US not to unravel, US has to keep up the appearance of militarism, but as I contend, in practice, it seems empirically, she is looking for off ramps before it comes to blows. Right now, in ME, US’ best bet is to be an offshore balancing power, otherwise she risks further ceding ground to her adversaries.

    As for Rouhani’s comment, I think the reference is to Western MSM, not Ahmadinejad. After all, there’s more to Iran’s civilization than its politicians, Rouhani included.

  122. Neo says:

    M. Ali says: September 22, 2013 at 9:44 am

    “However, my skepticism lies in the fact that the crucial and the underlying problem that has been the driving force between the nations has not been changed.”

    Actually, the fundamentals changed a long time ago, but the Americans have so far refused to face reality: They do not have the capability to act as a super supreme exceptional power on earth.

    USA is a fading empire just like the old British empire in the first half of the 20th century. They just mistook the Soviet collapse as proof of their own ‘superhood’.

    The Brits too got into conflict after conflict until they were nearly bankrupt and opted for poodlehood instead. That’s when they gave up. The same is true of the US. When they wake up and smell the coffee, they will change their approach to Iran and other countries. It is happening right now.

  123. kooshy says:

    M. Ali / Bibi

    With Reference to Rouhani’s comment before leaving for NY “ I will show the civilized face of Iran” like Bibi I also think was meant to reverse the demonization by the western MSM but on the other hand people like Ali who live in Iran are justified to be
    Discussed by some of the whole sale action by the new government as everyone knows Mr. Rouhani is a protégé of Mr. Rafsanjani and he doesn’t hide it in any occasion he finds, the amount of animosity between his group and misters and the previous government is out in the open one only need to just look at the wholesale amount of hiring and firings by the new minsters or overseers even in the junior level. That’s bad and a bad precedent for future, I hope the parliament gets to disqualify couple of his minsters.

  124. James Canning says:

    “Sergei Lavrov . . . said yesterday that the ‘unique opportunity’ to solve the problem of Syria’s chemical weapons was being placed in jeopardy because of the ‘arrogant position of some western partners’.”
    – – FT report today

  125. James Canning says:

    Neo,

    Obama appears to comprehend the US cannot determine who would emerge in control of Syria if the government is overthrown.

  126. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    Surely it is beyond any doubt that Ahmadinejad said things from time to time that badly injured Iran (from PR standpoint).

  127. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    You need to focus on individuals, and groups, in the US (and in other countries), that seek to force Obama into taking actions he may well be inclined not to take. If you want to understand current situation in ME.

  128. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    You endorse the childish foolishness of George W. Bush? That countries are either “for” the US, or “against” the US? Total rubbish. And dishonest.

    I think this mantra was fed to the moron in the White House, as part of programme to set up the illegal invasion of Iraq.

  129. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Be more specific. You argue Obama will not accept Iranian enrichment to low levels? Meaning 5% or lower.

  130. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    For the short term, risk of inflation may be equal to risk of global depression. But you may be right to believe Iran can bring on a global recession, if it can block shipping to and from the Persian Gulf. China will not take this lightly, however. In my view.

  131. James Canning says:

    Rouhani: “We believe that we all should try to stop the war in Syria so that terrorists are not strengthened and then the opposition groups can sit at the negotiating table with the Syrian government.”
    {quoted in Financial Times today]

  132. James Canning says:

    R S Hack,

    FT report today: “The prospect of engaging with Iran on Syria is one that strikes to the heart of the Obama administration’s INTERNAL DEBATE on the civil war.”

    Key element of the equation: INTERNAL DEBATE.

  133. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 23, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    I think that is not essential about Mr. Ahmadinejad – whose information war against Axis Powers was started from the “Axis Of Evil” speech given by Mr. Bush II.

    Mr. Ahmadinejad demolished Shoah and with it the justifications of Israelis and their supporters among Axis Powers.

    That is, Shoah carries no weight with Muslims any longer – it is concieved as discredited propaganda.

    Mr. Ahmadinejad made 3 other set of statements:

    1- Offered to others to partner with Iran in her nuclear industries (to obviate any fears)

    2- Offered to share in the management of the world affairs

    3- Offered to exchange raw uranium for fuel assemblies.

    There were no takers – not among teh Axis Powers, not among Chia and Russia, and not anywhere else.

    The aim was to unroll (an later to crush) the Iranian power since 2006.

    Let us see if Mr. Rouhnai obtains better traction.

  134. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 23, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Iranians are not going to go to Geneva II, or abandon Mr. Assad – these are just public-relations statements of little weight.

    Fortunately for Iranians, the anti-government forces are not about to join the Geneva II process – Iranians are off-the-hook.

    The war in Syria will continue until rebels are crsuched; it helps Iran to have Syrian refugees burden Turkey and Jordan.

    And, furthermore, if I were an Iranian leaders, I would take special satisfaction as the anti-government forces of Syria would begin to disperse and cause mischief in other states – including the Russian Federation.

  135. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think Rouhani’s call for “all” to try to stop the civil war in Syria is genuine, and surely in Iran’s best interests too. Not a PR ploy.

  136. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Ahmadinejad made numerous sensible proposals, intelligent comments about the way forward in the ME, etc etc etc. No question.

    But he obviously said things that worked against Iran from PR standpoint.

    Holocaust industry in the West is in fact used to help dupe the American people into supporting Israel “right or wrong”.

  137. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    Aipac has tried to prevent Kerry from speaking to his Iranian counterpart. Aipac tries to prevent any American officials from speaking to their Iranian counterparts.
    But you of course know this.

  138. Karl.. says:

    James

    September 23, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Thats what I have tried to say 3 times now. You dont get it. Obama dont accept NPT for Iran.
    What about 5%, you mean Iran wasnt under sanctions when they produced 5%? You make no sense.

  139. Smith says:

    US lawmakers: Absolutely no sanctions relief until Iran completely and verifiable dismantles its entire nuclear program (enrichment, reactors, etc etc): http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/23/lawmakers-set-a-high-bar-for-iran-to-escape-sanctions.html

    Of course after that, its going to be human rights, gay rights, lesbian rights, etc etc.

    As said before. The white man can only be deterred by nuke tipped ICBM’s.

  140. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 23, 2013 at 1:56 pm
    “Nico,For the short term, risk of inflation may be equal to risk of global depression. But you may be right to believe Iran can bring on a global recession, if it can block shipping to and from the Persian Gulf. China will not take this lightly, however. In my view.”

    This is where you are dramatically wrong.
    There is no case for a blockade from the US.
    And Iran will not block the SoH without US blockade or unlawfull agression against its allies.
    And if there is a blockade or an unlawfull war by the US it would be built on a fabricated case, it would NEVER EVER be authorized by the UNSC and it would be an unsupported and criminal declaration of war as per international law.
    In addition use of force will NEVER EVER be allowed by the UNSC against Iran.

    All your fabricated rational about supposed western fear against Iran has nothing legal and/or factual.
    It is nothing more than western PR and hot air.
    And whithout a case and without UNSC the US blockade or war would be criminal act.

    Interesting enough you state that China would not appreciate.
    Sure they should not appreciate irresponsability and criminality.
    Usual US unilateralism does not equate legality.

    You state that the burden would be on Iran.
    Well that would be true if might makes right.
    Logically you fully support might makes rights by putting the burden on Iran.
    As a logical consequence you are a supremacist.
    Obviously a supremacist is a racist.

    Once again I proved here that you are a supremacist and a racist.
    Whith all due respect and nuances. Of course.

  141. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Once again, are you claiming Obama would not allow a deal with P5+1 to be made with Iran, if it accepts Iranian enrichment to 5%?

  142. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    China wants the seal lanes into PG to be kept open. China wants Iran to stop enriching to 20 and make a deal with P5+1. China does not want a global recession.

    Iran has done things that in fact have convinced many European leaders Iran wants to be able to build nukes quickly. Fair statement?

  143. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Which would YOU prefer? A US attack on Iranian nuclear fcilities? OR a blockade of Iranian oil exports by sea?

  144. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 23, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    I agree.

    Now, look at this:

    http://news.yahoo.com/sikh-professor-attacked-by-nyc-mob-in-what-may-be-hate-crime-165817696.html

    Middle America would be even worse in its hatred of Islam and Iran and love of Israel.

    At the moment, US lacks the statesmen that could manage these religious passions.

    And the next likely US President, Mrs. Clinton, emphatically will not be much better.

  145. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    You are truly delusional if you think Obama would allow Iran to build nukes. Delusional. Curiously, you in effect make the same arguments as Israeli warmongers, that Obama cannot be trusted to prevent Iran from building nukes if Obama fails to attack Syria.

  146. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 23, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    I do not think so.

    I think we – including yourself – have agreed that state security in the coming years and decades will be based on long-range nuclear weapons.

    The question for Iran is not if but when.

    As for Israelis – just like Arabs – they will fight Iran to the last American.

    Iran has been designated by US & Israel as the state to be destroyed at any opportune time.

    Just like Iraq was destroyed since Israelis wished it.

    What has prevented Iran being destroyed has been a conjunction of events as well as Iran’s own capabilities.

    It was not due to good Iranian PR; Axis Powers will destroy Iran for two salient reasons – if the can:

    An independet state with so much potential control over oil

    Israel must be protected at any and all costs.

  147. Karl.. says:

    James
    September 23, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    You seems to have problem understanding plain text. What is that you dont comprehend?
    You make no sense. WHy are you talking about 5%? Do you also reject NPT? Do you also reject that Iran have rights under the NPT? Was Iran not sanctioned when they kept enrichment under 5%?

  148. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 23, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    “Iran has done things that in fact have convinced many European leaders Iran wants to be able to build nukes quickly. Fair statement?”

    Absolutely not.
    The western case is more than weak. It is boggus.
    In Justice, the accusator needs to provide proof not the defendent.
    There is no proof and what Iran is accused of is not a problem when it is India, Pak, Israel and the UNSC permanent.

    Your case is more than weak. It is hot air and PR.
    Diffamation and lies are better terms.
    You fully support diffamation and lies.
    I understand full well that it is no problem for you as you are a racist supremacist.
    Nunanced enough ?

  149. Karl.. says:

    James
    September 23, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    You are delusional, you think obama is the police of the world.

  150. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 23, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    “Nico,Which would YOU prefer? A US attack on Iranian nuclear fcilities? OR a blockade of Iranian oil exports by sea?”

    The US unsubstantiated case is boggus. As I have proven in the last posts.
    The burden of any blockade or act of agression is act on the US shoulder. Not Iran.
    You support US criminality. Good enough for a supremacist and racist like you.

  151. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    There is nothing “racist” about saying Iran needs to make a deal with the P5+1. China is not a likely candidate for a “racist” programme. China and Russia want Iran to make a deal.

  152. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Why am I mentioning enrichment to 5%? Because Obama hinted the US may be willing to accept Iran’s enrichment to 5%. (Assuming Obama encouraged the comments to the NYT last week on this score.)

  153. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Surely you are not trying to argue Iran could make a deal with the P5+1 that Obama refused to accept.

  154. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 23, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    They have a very dark history of genocide after genocide after genocide.

    In Bengal, the British East India Company, the world’s first evil corporation that had taken over India, killed half of the population of Bengal, by preventing to store food, tax them to death and by force made the people to grow opium for smuggling to China/Iran instead of food crops. The genocide that these people did there can not even be comprehended. It was so large.

    The white man at the time just like now believed that he is right in doing so. The British officers at the time proudly boasted that such measures are necessary to off set the effects of “over-breeding” of brown Indian animal-humans. During these artificially created famines, the white man used to grab half of India’s agricultural output and ship it all over the world so that the white man over breeds and populates every corner of the world.

    They have not changed one bit. They are as racist and as genocidal as ever. They and their house slaves.

    Unfortunately, and I am sorry to say this, but since it is the truth, I have to: The Christian religious leaders are mostly to blame. In every genocide, they have condoned the actions of the white perpetrators if not directly helping them. Never they had a shred of moral courage to come out and directly criticize and condemn these barbaric acts. Even their missionaries were kind of military propaganda tool at the hand of the white armies. This is the truth. But the world knows. And will never forget.

    Today, they are after Iran. And as you have been saying, they will not sit still until they destroy that nation. In the face of the onslaught of the white man and his evil desires/fantasies only “long range nuclear munitions” are effective to keep peace. Any thing else is logically unacceptable and plain foolhardy.

  155. James Canning says:

    Netanyahu is demanding Iran end all enrichment and ship all enriched U out of the country. Guardian report today. One may assume Aiapc will back this line which of course has no chance of being acceptable to Iran.

  156. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    The Vancouver Sun reported recently that immigrants to Canada from Africa, Pakistan and India produce twice as many children as native Canadian women. And twice as many children as do immigrants from the US or Europe. And you claim the “white man” is overbreeding? Amazing rubbish.

  157. James Canning says:

    Hague and Zarif held discussions last night in New York. May lead to reopening of respective embassies.

  158. kooshy says:

    I am not very comfortable with this new fast rollercoaster diplomacy of Iran, I hope Mr. Zarif can slow the paste down and make sure the Ezat is not too sacrificed for Maslahat in the course of his fast diplomacy paste. Never less I wish him success, but he probably knows if he miscalculates and gets runaround by the westerners he will have lots of problem continuing as FM.

    For one thing I will standup to the French FM and his ridiculous conditions for including Iran to Geneva2, France do not poses any leverage on Iran. Today Iran has more say on Syria than France does, therefore is Iran that can set conditions not the other way around.

    France Sets Conditions for Including Iran, an Assad Ally, in Syria Peace Talks

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-dispute.html?_r=0

  159. fyi says:

    kooshy says:
    September 23, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    There will be no Geneva II.

    This is not even a storm in a teapot.

    War for and in Syria will continue until one side or the other prevails.

    Evidently, that would be the government.

  160. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 23, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Yes, once the English were out of India, the famines stopped.

    Makes one wonder, doesn’t it?

    The Pope and the Catholic Church expressed their opposition to imperial policies numerous times; the Protestants with their pretensions to a “Rational Religion” were the most complicit.

  161. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 23, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    No longer relevant after the strategic clarity of US position vis-à-vis Iran brought by the events of the last 30 days.

    Likewise, the restoration of diplomatic relations between UK and Iran; as relevant as Iran and Iraq having embassies in each others’ capitals during the Iran-Iraq War.

    As for China and Russia wanting Iran to make a deal – I wonder if that also is now passé?

    But we shall see.

  162. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 23, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    That is so true. The British apologists today, blame Bengal famine on “droughts”. But Bengal is one of the wettest places on earth. Actually the problem there is flooding. That place literally lives on top of water. Scoundrels.

  163. Sineva says:

    fyi says:
    September 23, 2013 at 10:59 pm
    Agreed,in the long run the government will win,let the fsa/jihadis western backers squabble over seating at the non existent party while the terrorists are bled white

  164. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Pat Buchanan frequently makes sense…

    Is Iran the Fourth Reich?
    http://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2013/09/23/is-iran-the-fourth-reich/

    Quote

    Should Iran start a war, the sinking of its coastal navy would be a few days’ work for the Fifth Fleet. Its air force of U.S. Phantoms dating to the Shah and few dozen MiGs dating to the early 1990s would provide a turkey shoot for Top Gun applicants.

    In 30 days, the United States could destroy its airfields, missile sites and nuclear facilities, and impose an air and naval blockade that would reduce Iran to destitution.

    End Quote

    Pretty much true, except for the “destitution” bit, which is unlikely to be true. After a ten-year war with the US, however, things won’t be looking good. Unfortunately for the US, things won’t look good for it either after such a war. The US will end up withdrawing and Iran will rebuild. The US taxpayer will lose another three trillion dollars or more – but the military-industrial complex will have made several hundred billion a year in profits and will then start looking to start a war with, say, Pakistan, to make even more profits.

  165. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Canning should read this…

    Is the Israel Lobby Only a Chimp Among Gorillas?
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/23/is-the-israel-lobby-only-a-chimp-among-gorillas/

    Short version: Yes, they are, but chimps are dangerous animals, too.

  166. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 23, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    “Nico,There is nothing “racist” about saying Iran needs to make a deal with the P5+1. China is not a likely candidate for a “racist” programme. China and Russia want Iran to make a deal.”

    Ahah. You are again paying the idiot with meaningless incantations.
    One liner
    No articulation.
    No logic.
    Only sophism, emotionnal thinking and hasbarah.

    Pathetic.

  167. nico says:

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/kerry-iranian-foreign-minister-to-meet/2013/09/23/b59fa3dc-2480-11e3-ad0d-b7c8d2a594b9_story.html

    “Iran’s foreign minister will meet later this week with representatives of other foreign powers, including Secretary of State John F. Kerry, marking one of the highest-level contacts between the United States and Iran in years.”

    “The tough language from lawmakers has heightened concerns among some foreign policy experts that the Obama administration may lack the political maneuvering room to negotiate a nuclear deal with the Iranians. At a time when Iran appears to be showing new flexibility, there is serious concern over whether the White House is capable of reciprocating, given the prominent role of Congress in controlling economic sanctions, said George Perkovich, an Iran expert with the Washington-based Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    “We know that, for anything to work, there has to be serious sanctions relief,” Perkovich said. “Can the president deliver? At the moment, he can’t even get a budget out of Congress.””

  168. Karl.. says:

    James

    September 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Obama has not “hinted” that he will accept ANY enrichment in Iran. Stop lying.

    Read what Leveretts said in THIS article.

    “The explicit reference to not relinquishing one’s rights is, of course, very much of a piece with Rohani’s statements, during his presidential campaign and since his election, that he is not about to surrender Iran’s right—as a sovereign state and as a non-weapons state party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT)—to enrich uranium under international safeguards. Unfortunately, there is no concrete indication that the Obama administration is prepared to acknowledge this right.”

  169. Karl.. says:

    Will west stay when Rouhani speak in the UN or will they leave as usual?

  170. M.Ali says:

    Obama is a leader of a state, James. He doesn’t have to “hint” at anything. He can come out and say it, if that’s his offer.

  171. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Despite BiBiJob’s Pollanna notion that Obama is really a really, really nice guy who’s just trying to convince everyone around him that he’s really, really an asshole…without actually hurting anyone, you understand…

    Russia says talks with U.S. on Syria rocky, fears use of force
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/24/us-syria-crisis-russia-usa-idUSBRE98N09N20130924?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

  172. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Security Council Begins Writing Resolution on Syria
    http://www.thenation.com/article/176311/security-council-begins-writing-resolution-syria#axzz2fkgXhM5G

    Mostly comments from Hans Blix…

  173. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Here you see another approach the US and Israel are taking…claiming Hizballah has Syria’s chemical weapons…

    Hezbollah denies getting Syrian chemical weapons
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-denies-getting-syrian-chemical-weapons/

  174. M.Ali says:

    I just read Kooshy’s link to NYTimes article,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-dispute.html?_r=1&

    “In a meeting with the editorial board of The New York Times, the minister, Laurent Fabius, said Iran would need to accept the goal of the conference: the establishment by consensus of a transitional government that would not include President Bashar al-Assad.

    Iran would also need to understand, Mr. Fabius said, that it would not be rewarded for any cooperation on Syria by being granted flexibility to pursue its nuclear program, another major issue between Iran and the West. ”

    What shit. Iran shouldn’t even offer to help.

  175. Karl.. says:

    M.Ali

    September 24, 2013 at 7:32 am

    Fabius isnt the smartest diplomat, why would Iran participate in Geneva if they arent benefit Iran? Just another stupid comment by the french.

    Obviously west WANT Iran to participate but dont dare saying that loud since they would loose face.

  176. BiBiJon says:

    Richard Steven Hack says:
    September 24, 2013 at 6:31 am

    Richard,

    The Reuters article you linked, despite the headline, actually says this:

    Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said in parliament: U.S. officials “always mention that plans to punish Damascus remain in force. We draw certain conclusions from that and assume that the threat of aggression in violation of international law is so far only delayed, not dismissed fully.”

    There are 3 inferences I draw from this. a) Ryabkov is saying it like it is. b) “Cannot be dismissed fully” is not the same as “Russia Fears Use of Force.” b) Ryabkov is talking to parliament and may well be trying to justify continued costly deployment of Russian Navy in Eastern Med. c) It is in Russia’s interest to keep Assad on his toes giving Russia an incentive not to “dismiss fully” the threat.

    Reality, however, is that while indeed the threat of aggression can not be dismissed, the likelihood of Obama ordering strikes in the face of British Parliament’s, and US Congress’ dissent and contrary to unmistakable public opinion, is a likelihood nearest to nil that can still be described as “cannot be dismissed fully.”

    Try harder next time.

  177. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning, I noticed you posted this elsewhere:

    “James Canning says: September 22, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Should one note here that Iran has offered a number of times to stop enriching uranium to 20 percent? And that, thanks to the Israel lobby, the US has ignored those offers?”

    – – –

    The Hitler analogy is being tossed about a great deal, to the extent that yesterday New York Times online offered a video of Sam Tanenhaus who listed the times the USA has been tempted to be “isolationist.” http://www.nytimes.com/video/2013/09/17/us/politics/100000002448238/think-back-america-and-isolationism.html

    With respect to the run-up to World War II, Tanenhaus said:

    “Are we an isolationist country that does not want to get involved in other nation’s problems, or are we a global power that wants to try to solve them.
    Charles Lindbergh the great aviator was also the world’s greatest isolationist. In the lead up to world war II Lindbergh gave fiery speeches across the nation insisting that we stay out of the European war that was being fought.
    [shows clip of Lindbergh saying –]
    “We are on the verge of war, but it is not yet too late to stay out.”

    Tanenhaus: President Franklin D Roosevelt was afraid of Lindbergh. Roosevelt was convinced the United States must become involved in world war II.
    Then came Pearl Harbor and America was now at war. There was no longer a debate whether we should be fighting.”

    – – –

    Tanenhaus covers a lot of ground in those few words, and omits a very large amount of what REALLY happened in the years between 1933 and Pearl Harbor.

    But back to your comment (and leaving aside for the moment the fact that Iran’s nuclear technology, at 5% or 10% or 150% is NOT the issue), it should be noted that Hitler and German diplomats under his direction made at least a dozen overtures of peace to Britain and Churchill.

    Germany did not want war.

    Churchill wanted war.

    Churchill wanted war so intensely that he deliberately bombed German cities, knowing that the NSDAP did NOT want war, did not want and did not have the type of airforce to pursue a bombing war, but that Germany MUST retaliate if Britain struck German cities.

    FDR did not ‘want’ war; he wanted to get the US out of depression and unemployment and attempted to finesse armaments production loaned to Britain. In his view, this produced an American win-win: US achieved relief of unemployment, Britain got the weapons it wanted to fight the war it wanted.

    Tanenhaus fails to close the loop: Despite what was arguably the dirtiest and most intensive propaganda campaign waged on the the American people (until that time), with British propaganda operatives in league with American publishers and millionaires at the vanguard and zionist “shadow elites” as well as Jewish organizations such as Anti-Defamation League operating in the interstices, the American people never really signed on to war against Germany until, as Tanenhaus said, Pearl Harbor.

    Reviewing the World War II parallels is important, in my view, because
    a. Zionists and Israeli government officials continue to raise the comparison

    b. American foreign policy since 1945 has been grounded on a fabled American view of American virtue and valor in the war, and of all the “good” that the US has done since the war in “keeping the world safe for democracy.”

    For example, in a 2006 discussion of Dr. Ickles’ book, “Annihilation from Within,” Washington journalist and fiction-writer David Ignatius said:

    “As we think back to 1945 what matters in a sense is that the world evolved structures, ways of thinking that allowed these enormous dangers of the nuclear era to be contained and managed.

    It developed international institutions and frameworks for security which were durable and in which the United States invested enormous effort. The dangers of the nuclear era were reinforced in the Cuban missile crisis … the response of pres. Kennedy and of all people who though seriously about nuclear weapons to deepen their efforts at containing this threat. We saw the hotline between Moscow and Washington so that leaders could talk in crisis; we saw the limited test ban treaty, and then we saw in 1968 the nonproliferation treaty.

    A disturbing moment for me came in August [2006] while I was in Tehran at a press conference given by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran at which he spoke very specifically about his belief that that world, of 1945, the world that has contained or sought to contain these dangers, is ending.

    Ahmadinejad seems sometimes a malign stick figure, a person who spouts antisemitic rhetoric and is easily dismissed.

    But I regret to say this is a man who has a fundamental analysis of where the world is and in his world view the victors of 1945 who created the institutions that have been maintaining security are now exhausted. The United States is exhausted in Iraq. Russia is clearly an exhausted nation, Britain is a shadow of what it was in 1945. And so in his analysis that world is collapsing. And he proposes to create a new one in which rising nations like Iran, like China, like other nations have a greater role.

    And I think that reinforces one challenge that I take away from Dr Ickle’s book, which is that it is absolutely essential that the United States and its allies, with the energy and political will of the leaders of 1945, set about rebuilding, reconstructing international security institutions that can be durable, that are more inclusive that speak to the complaints that Ahmadinejad and many others around the world would make about the 1945 system.”

    Ignatius’s statement reflects a dominant view among Washington policy elites.

    As I type this I am listening to Obama recite the same rhetoric about Iran that American leaders have repeated for over 20 years.

    Ignatius’s statement is based on lies.

    So is Obama’s.

    Until people start confronting the truth, nothing can change.

  178. Karl.. says:

    obama speak live..on syria, iran sigh..

    http://webtv.un.org/

  179. Fiorangela says:

    sigh indeed Karl.

    USA is still living in another century. backward looking.

  180. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Regarding the issue of the possibility of rapprochement between the Islamic Republic and Uncle Weasel: it depends on whether you see the nuclear file as an issue in its own right, or, as a pretext in a broader context. Methinks this, in turn, depends, on how one views the US: as the greatest force ever seen in world history, as the beacon of democracy in an otherwise dark and bleak world, as… well, you know the rest; or, as a shameless hegemon bent on getting its way by any means necessary, including creating al-Qaeda (in Soviet-era Afganistan), and fostering it and using it for its own purposes to bring about “a cataclysmic event… a New Pearl Harbor”, and now in Syria.

    People who like to live in the past, and those who are wilfully blind, or addicted to wishful thinking, putting their heads in the sand, etc., will take Barry White’s sickeningly saccharine speech as evidence that all is well, and if only Iran can “allay the fears” of the “international community”, a deal can be made.

    Needless to say, I think fyi is on the money on this, his forte, geopolitics.

    *

    Jeremiah Wright had it right:

    And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian decent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese decent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating her citizens of African decent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them in slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing “God Bless America.” No, no, no. Not “God Bless America”; God Damn America! That’s in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating her citizen as less than human. God Damn America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme!

  181. Karl.. says:

    No solution is sight since US/EU/Israel keep their demands on Iran. Obama lies when he today said that they dont seek regime change. Iran just had a new president and obama havent changed his way one bit, in fact as Marandi said, new sanctions has been put since Rouhani got elected. This is just a bluff, US are tired of wars and try to save its face by this “pause” against their warmonger against Iran.

  182. Persian Gulf says:

    Fiorangela says:
    September 24, 2013 at 11:22 am

    😀

  183. James Canning says:

    “Mr. Rouhani’s representative to parliament said this week that an estimated $600 billion has been pulled out of Iran in the past few years because of market instability.”
    – – Report in Wall Street Journal today (by Farnaz fassihi)

  184. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Are you making an honest comment when you claim Obama has not changed his stance “one bit”?

    In effect, you are arguing that Obama has not allowed his advisers to suggest he will accept Iranian enrichment to low levels.

  185. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    So what if Britain “lost” her colonies? Times change.

  186. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Do you think Britain should have accepted Germany’s annexation of the western half of Poland?

    True, that the Soviet Union annexed the east half.

    What do you think Chambelain should have done?

  187. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Yes, some intelligent foreign policy makers in “the West” see it has in the interests of “the West” for Iran to be involved in resolving Syria crisis. Obviously true. Equally oibvious is that it is in Iran’s interests too.

  188. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes I am making an “honest” comment. Any “honest” person on this board, you excluded, think so.

  189. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    Politicians often try to keep political damage to a minimum, when dealing with matters that are controversial. By sending up “trial balloons”. I think Obama was “testing the waters”, if you prefer that analogy.

    I of course would prefer Obama simply to say in public that the US accepts Iran’s domestic nuclear power programme and has no objections to Iran’s production of the nuclear fuel for the power plants. Or something along these lines.

  190. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 24, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Iran has no interest in resolving the Syrian crisis – it is “War, War to the End” as far as Iran is concerned.

    Iranians do not need “West” in Syria and certainly will not cooperate unless and until they reach an strategic understanding with Axis Powers.

    That is no in the cards.

  191. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I would expect “the West” to stay and listen to Rouhani.

    I think you know the reason Ahmadinejad was shunned. (Or whatever one wants to call it)

  192. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    When the Leveretts say there is nothing “concrete” about Obama’s hints, regarding US acceptance of enrichment (to low levels), they mean there indeed have been hints or suggestions.

  193. BiBiJon says:

    Anyone got a spare copy of “The Peace of Imam Hassan [PBUH], the most splendid heroic flexibility in history” for Jeremiah Wright?

  194. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    The logic is clear: Iran needs to make a deal with P5+1. Russia and China both want such a deal. Iran will continue to suffer if it fails to make a deal. Difficult for you to comprehend?

  195. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Many of Aipac’s stooges in the US Congress in fact do want to block any deal between the P5+1 and Iran.

    Your instincts, sadly, are to help those Aipac stooges.

  196. James Canning says:

    R S Hack,

    I read that article, pushing the nonsense notion Aipac is not an 800-pound gorilla. If I were an Aipac apologist, trying to help dupe the American public, maybe I would be willing to endorse such nonsense as “capitalism” is trying to force Obama to attack Syria. Attack Iran. Etc etc etc. Total rubbish.

  197. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 24, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    The guy is a racist. Just like his grand daddies before him. He sees himself as human and us as man-animals. This is the core of his and his ilks ideology: We can have this and you can not have it. We can do this and you can not do it. We can rape you and you can not rape us. We can kill you and you can not kill us. It always ends like that.

  198. fyi says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:

    September 24, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    You best ignore writers such as Jeremiah Wright, he is the other side of the “American Exceptional-ism” in that he is taking America to task for failing to live up to the ideal of the “City on the Hill”, “New Jerusalem”, “The City of God” and the rest.

    The United States has been creating such men and women for more than a hundred years; always chastising the United States in comparison not to any existing polity or state but by comparison with all kinds of untested idealistic polities that only exist in the brains and writing of those who dreamed them up.

    It is impossible for me to imagine a contemporary Belgian writing in a similar manner that this writer has written about the negro experience in US about how the Belgian state and its “Mad King” were pursuing a policy of genocide in Congo to de-populate from Africans and populate it instead with European colonists.

    Specifically about Black Americans; everything they have now they owe to the United States Government – the government that fought and freed them and later clothed and educated them and later still created subsidized jobs for them so that they could reach Middle Class level.

    US Government in fact acted like an ideal Islamic Government.

    It is, in my opinion, a testament to the Fallen Nature of Man that that government which freed slaves went on to become the Imperialist Power that it became 4 generations later.

    US Government is not supplying people with drugs – American people have a voracious appetite for it.

  199. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I can assure you Russia and China want a P5+1 deal with Iran. China worries openly about higher oil prices. Russia, of course, does not suffer from higher oil prices.

    American stupidity in dealing with Russia about how to get rid of Syrian CW does complicate the situation.

  200. Smith says:

    The house negro, nobel laureate barry white, implied in his speech to UN that Iranians gassed themselves to death. Very shameful. He should have instead said the truth that US along with its whores like France, Germany and the most favorite UK were gassing Iranians. But then he is a house negro. You can not really expect him to be straight forward with a spine.

    He then goes on to threaten the whole world militarily that US will continue to attack, kill, rape, maim and disembowel babies but Iran should be disarmed and defenselessness. Any one else seeing hypocrisy in this?

    He shamelessly only refers to operation ajax and portrays it as if it was a bloodless, peaceful overthrow of a government. Then he mentions that Iran has killed Americans. What a charlatan scoundrel. But then he is a house negro. What can you expect? That he is going to be straight forward and tell you that the white man and his army of house slaves have been involved in killing of millions of Iranians?

    The speech of US president today at UN, only convinced me more than ever that Iran will never be safe until it becomes a nuclear weapon state.

  201. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 24, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Then let us hope the Russia, China, South Korea, India, South Africa, Sri Lanka and others would put pressure on the “Mad King” – like the Barons did on the King and got Magna Charta – to come to the table.

    It is out of Iran’s hands.

  202. Smith says:

    President of Brazil in her speech to UN, humiliates US for being spying on Brazilian people’s lives. She promises to develop infrastructure and technologies to protect Brazilian from further violation of their human rights by US and encourages the world community to come together and legislate international law and cooperation to keep the world safe from human rights violation by US and its whores.

  203. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 24, 2013 at 1:54 pm
    “Nico,The logic is clear: Iran needs to make a deal with P5+1. Russia and China both want such a deal. Iran will continue to suffer if it fails to make a deal. Difficult for you to comprehend?”

    There will be no deal no matter Iran concessions. The US is after victimzing Iran. Nothing else.

    The onus is on the US to accept Iran’s sovereign right. Contrary the shamefull and disgusting speech of Obama at the UN.

    There is zero proof of Iran deviation of the NPT.
    To the opposite there is proof of the US wanting muslims states to relinquish their rights.
    You know like the deal forced upon KSA or UAE to relinquish their right regarding enrichment.
    Or the US pursuit of the same deal with Jordan.

    Is KSA a threat to the US or Israel ?

    Iran leaders say that it is Iran interest to saveguard their rights.
    Do you deny Iran to be a democracy ?
    Your opinion is meaningless and of no value on matter of Iran interests…
    But as I said previously you are an exceptionalist leftist. So no surprise there.

    But in addition you continue to put the onus on Iran about alleged and fear and hot air from western countries.
    While it is obvioudly boggus and pur lie and hasbarah.

    That is clearly taking side with criminality of the US and supporting the clash of civilization.

    No surprise for a racist and a supremacist like you.

  204. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: September 24, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    “So what if Britain “lost” her colonies? Times change.”

    Interesting you should remark that “times change.”
    Churchill went to war precisely to hold onto and expand her colonies & access to them. Britain collaborated with the zionist project in Palestine in part because Jews were very wealthy and resourceful — other European vied for ‘possession’ of Jewish wealth; and in order to make Jewish-controlled Palestine, the hinge of the Middle East, Britain’s vassal and bulwark.

    Zionists went along with Britain’s plans, but only until they had possession of Palestine pretty well under Jewish control: by ~1933-38 the combination of wealth transferred to Palestine from Germany, and donations from American Jews, had made Jewish Palestine the globe’s wealthiest enclave in the midst of depression. Jews no longer needed British overlordship, and they started to chafe at British restrictions on Jewish plans — one of the demands of the “Jewish Declaration of War on Germany” of Mar 24, 1933, was for Britain to relax immigration quotas to Palestine.

    Ben Hecht was a Hollywood screenwriter and an ardent zionist. One of his many contributions to the popular culture understanding (which is different from a facts-evidence-and-logic basis) of the zionist era was a play demanding that Jews in Palestine claim MORE land, and kick the British out. http://wymaninstitute.org/articles/2004-04-flagisborn.php

    — ooops, I got distracted — but Ben Hecht is a very important figure that you never heard of, but who played a major role in molding brains in ways that made them impervious to reason (see Persian Gulf says: September 24, 2013 at 12:46 pm)

  205. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    Yes same threats and demonizing as usual by obama against Iran.
    And really, he need to stop saying hes pro palestinian state, his record shows the complete opposite. DOes he really think anyone believe this nonsense?

  206. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Obama favours an independent Palestine. But many powerful Democrats demand that Israel be allowed to scr*w the Palestinians. This is the core of the matter.

  207. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    These people are embodiment of the word hypocrite.

    There will never be a Palestine (as part of a two state solution). We all know that. The last opportune time for that to happen was 1991: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/FourMaps.jpg

    What barry white is doing is called deception. A critical part of all strategies. Israel is a religious fantasy of Americans that also serves as a permanent American air craft carrier in the region. The only solution to that problem will have to be the South African model post apartheid. But this will not happen until Americans exercise their religious fanaticism.

  208. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Of course I am aware of Ben Hecht. And arguments that Hollywood helped the Zionists, and helped Hitler. Both args true?

    Obviously times change. Britain laid the groundwork for Indian independence two centuries ago.

    And yes, Churchill very very very much wished Britain to keep India within the Empire.

    “Loss” of most of the colonies did not do much net damage to Britain, given the costs of trying to keep them.

  209. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    You apparently believe Israel can be forced to annex parts of the West Bank with large numnbers of non-Jews. Correct?

  210. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Yes, “onus” is on the US to accept Iranian enrichment to low levels. 5% max.

  211. Karl.. says:

    James

    Bush was also for a palestinian state. Strangely I dont see you defend him.

  212. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think Obama is making it clear the US will accept Iranian enrichment to 5. Given certain conditions.

    The struggle to force King of England to accept “Magna Carta” went on for decades.

  213. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Did the US “gas Iranians”? Yes, it does seem clear the US made it easier for Iraqis to gas Iranians. I remember hearing this during the Iran-Iraq war.

  214. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Yes, George W. Bush very late in his presidency, tried to do something to get Israel out of the West Bank.

    When he should have strongly endorsed the 2002 Saudi peace plan. In 2002. And stopped the construction of the insane “security wall”.

  215. Fiorangela says:

    here’s how I intended to respond to “losing colonies … times change.”

    Persian Gulf critiqued a video that I linked earlier (Fiorangela says: September 21, 2013 at 12:15 pm) That video, “Hitler’s War,” draws much of its content from “1939 – The War That Had Many Fathers” by Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof.

    Needless to say, community public libraries do not shelve this book. More’s the pity. The first pages can be read here.

    The author writes that the second world war cannot be understood without an understanding of the Versailles and St. Germaine treaties (which a lot more people in otherwise historically stunted USA are beginning to understand).

    But Schultze-Rhonhof goes one step further:

    “That particular generation in Austria and Germany has a view of history which reaches far back into the past. The First World War is not, to their way of thinking, an isolated or special historical case. Repeatedly in the past, emerging nations and states have worked and fought for their place alongside other dominant peoples and states, while claiming and struggling for a share of the earth’s available mineral resources, commerce, and other sources of prosperity, in brief, while daring to be competitors. The rise and fall of nations, for the generation of Europeans around 1900, is a part of world history and not a moral issue. So, the Germans also at this time can see nothing reprehensible in the rise of their own country. The phenomenon of rising and falling in modern times is for them something like a historical natural law. In England, moreover, the view on these matters is the same.”

    The author then reviews the rise of empires and their fall to conquerors/new empires, beginning with Portugal in 1580.

    Consider the author’s use of the concept “moral.” Inasmuch as he makes the forthright admission that Germany, like other nations, engaged in “competition” involving violence to gain “resources,” etc., I understand that not being “moral” does NOT mean not being HONEST.

    I hypothesize that Germany was more honest in its agenda 1933-194_ * than were the United States, Great Britain, and zionists. And doubling down on dishonesty, to this day USA deludes itself and its polity into believing that it is not only MORAL, but actually benevolent in behavior that is actually predatory and empire-building.

    *Norman Finkelstein has said that today, “Germany is the most morally conscious of all the nations.” That may be so, but I submit that Germany is LESS honest today than it was in its war years. A particularly disturbing manifestation of how Germany has been _____ slapped into “morality” is an article in Der Spiegel in which German children were urged to demand of their grandparents — quick before they die off — “What horrible crimes did you commit in the war, Grandfather?”

    What if that catches on across the pond?

  216. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm
    “Nico,Yes, “onus” is on the US to accept Iranian enrichment to low levels. 5% max.”

    Absolutely not.
    The onus is on the US to accept full Iran right under NPT and unilaterelly remove theit criminal unilateral embargo.
    When such position agreed upon as a matter or principle behind closed doors then everything can be arranged as a matter of window dressing and face saving for the US.
    I think that I write here the rightfull position of Iranian leaders as stated in their numerous interviews.

  217. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: September 24, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    “Did the US “gas Iranians””

    see Amy Smithson of Center for Nonproliferation Studies:

    Although official US government policy was NOT to purvey chemical weapons, American corporations supplied 650,000 metric tons of chemical precursor to Saddam Hussein. After the war, two corporations were tried in US courts for violation of US laws.

    US did supply logistics information to enable Saddam’s forces to target Iranian troops and other critical sites. In other words, US was just as complicit in Iraq’s gassing of Iranian civilians as John Kerry claims (without evidence) that Assad was complicit in gassing Syrian citizens.

    see Dishonesty, above.
    lather
    rinse
    repeat

  218. Karl.. says:

    James

    Late? Bush supported a palestinian state in his beginning of presidency.

  219. Fiorangela says:

    re my comment at 3:02 pm,

    “Repeatedly in the past, emerging nations and states have worked and fought for their place alongside other dominant peoples and states, while claiming and struggling for a share of the earth’s available mineral resources, commerce, and other sources of prosperity, in brief, while daring to be competitors. The rise and fall of nations, for the generation of Europeans around 1900, is a part of world history and not a moral issue. So, the Germans also at this time can see nothing reprehensible in the rise of their own country. The phenomenon of rising and falling in modern times is for them something like a historical natural law. In England, moreover, the view on these matters is the same.”

    The “rise and fall of nations” is precisely what scares the crap out of novelist David Ignatius — see September 24, 2013 at 10:33 am:

    “it is absolutely essential that the United States and its allies, with the energy and political will of the leaders of 1945, set about rebuilding, reconstructing international security institutions that can be durable, that are more inclusive that speak to the complaints that Ahmadinejad and many others around the world would make about the 1945 system.”

    That’s what backward means: Ignatius is aghast that another, uppity nation, Iran, views the morass that USA has made of things since 1945, and thinks they can do better. Ignatius’s solution is for the US to “reclaim” the ‘moral high ground’ it has ‘held since 1945;’ the same message that Obama preached at UN today.

    The key argument that the Leveretts make: US and Iran are “in conflict” over who is the “rising nation” and who is the “falling nation”.

  220. M.Ali says:

    From Obama’s UN speech,

    “The United States of America is prepared to use all elements of our power, including military force, to secure these core interests in the region.

    We will confront external aggression against our allies and partners, as we did in the Gulf War.

    We will ensure the free flow of energy from the region to the world. Although America is steadily reducing our own dependence on imported oil, the world still depends upon the region’s energy supply, and a severe disruption could destabilize the entire global economy.

    We will dismantle terrorist networks that threaten our people. Wherever possible, we will build the capacity of our partners, respect the sovereignty of nations, and work to address the root causes of terror. But when its necessary to defend the United States against terrorist attacks, we will take direct action.

    And finally, we will not tolerate the development or use of weapons of mass destruction. Just as we consider the use of chemical weapons in Syria to be a threat to our own national security, we reject the development of nuclear weapons that could trigger a nuclear arms race in the region, and undermine the global non-proliferation regime.

    So what has exactly changed?

  221. Karl.. says:

    Soon Rouhani will speak..

    http://gadebate.un.org/

  222. Ataune says:

    @M.Ali

    From a political point of view, his discourse layed out the already evident paths of the US foreign policy in the region since last month:

    1- Syria will go into the backburner replaced by the Iran nuclear “issue”;
    2- Palestinian peace “process” will be in front.

    What we witness here, after trying to decouple for some times the Iranian dossier from the whole objectives in the middle-east, is the return of the linkage.

    There is also one interesting point here that I’m sure haven’t escape the attentive eyes: nowhere in his speech he mentions the nuclear “capabilities” as his litmus test. Instead, he talks of “development” of nuclear weapon. Both in the passage on the “fatwa” and where he mentions his expectation from Iran he uses the word “development”. This is a significant departure from the tone of the last 2 to 3 years.

    If this whole thing is not a ploy and if he sticks (or has the time to stick) by the words that we see in his speech, and I know this is a big if, there is now some political room from the begining of an agreement.

  223. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    You have to watch what is going on along the sidelines. And not expect Obama to lay out the changes in US position in his UN speech.

  224. Karl.. says:

    Now Rouhani speaks
    Live here:

    http://gadebate.un.org/

  225. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Yes, late. The moron in the White House should have set out his primary goals as getting Israel out of West Bank (and Gaza), out of Golan Heights, restoring normal relations with Iran. AND NOT INVADING IRAQ. Grossly incompetent National Security advisor.

  226. nico says:

    Wild guess : secret meeting with Obama while they are both in the same building ?

    http://edition.presstv.ir/iphone/detail.aspx?id=325820

    “Rouhani skips UN lunch over alcoholIranian President Hassan Rouhani has skipped a lunch banquet hosted by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon because alcohol was served at the tables.”

    Obviously there could have other more credible excuse.
    In addition it seems strange for such trivial event to be reported.

  227. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I agree Jhon Kerry would do better to say less about Syria’s alleged gassing of its own people. Given track record of US.

    I for one would like Kerry to tell Israel the Green Line is the border of Palestine. And scr*w Netanyahu.

  228. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    As far as I am aware, none of the Six Powers wants Iran to enrich to 20. None. You think otherwise?

  229. M.Ali says:

    So is Obama listening to Rohani’s speech or did he walk out?

  230. M.Ali says:

    “Deputy ambassador Rosemary Di Carlo is sitting in hall for Rouhani’s speech, the highest level U.S. official to sit in for an Iranian president’s speech in years, a senior U.S. administration official says.”

    where are those straws for me to desperately grab hold to?

  231. Karl.. says:

    James

    Refer to when Bush supported a palestinian state.

  232. Karl.. says:

    M ali

    Ridiculous that they couldnt sit and listen. But obama have no spine against israeli pressure.

  233. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 24, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    These things are done on purpose to humiliate Iran and Iranians. Nothing new. They only understand the language of nuclear weapons. Iran will never ever get any respect until it becomes a nuclear weapon state. Only then, Iran can expect to get the same respect Russia, China or India gets.

  234. M.Ali says:

    Hassan and Hussein haven’t met yet, but what I can read from western news is that the Obama wanted to meet but Rohani didn’t because it would get to be too complicated back home!

  235. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    September 24, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    “Nico,
    As far as I am aware, none of the Six Powers wants Iran to enrich to 20. None. You think otherwise?”

    I have to confess it is fun to read your nevrotic ridiculous prose.
    I already stated numerous times that Russia and China support Iran right RIGHT to enrich.
    You know the right under the NPT.
    And 20% is authorized under the NPT.
    That much was stated AGAIN during the last SCO meeting.
    Stop repeating your ridiculous hallucination about some kind of cohesion among the P5+1, the cohesion splintered years ago and it only shows your cognitive problem.
    Honestly, I hope it is just superficial and that it is not same kind of uncurable illness. However I have doubts about that.

  236. nico says:

    Karl,

    Thanks for the UNGA link.
    And here the transcript.

    http://gadebate.un.org/68/iran-islamic-republic

  237. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 24, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    That “Moron in the White House” actually managed to bring another strategic clarity to the US position: She is for Israel and against all of Isrel’s enemies.

    That position has not be renounced inside the United States – the ramifications of which is what you see – the secular republic waging a religious war against another religion.

    One must be grateful for that clarity that Mr. Ross and Mr. Clinton had so assidiously been hinding during much of the 1990s.

  238. kooshy says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 24, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    M. Ali Jann

    In my opinion Obama’s UN speech from the new view point of Americans who no longer approve and want wars make sense; his speech was confirming America’s receding power. Shows America’s incapability to police the world and shape the world’s agenda, instead is made typical of defending America’s core interested when becomes absolutely necessary.

    If Mr. Obama’s latest talks in this new speech can be trusted, that is since he is well known for lying and double talks and he correctly is distrusted by his own people as well as his friends and foes. But if we were to trust him, basically and specially from the apart you selected he is accepting a de facto detente with the region’s only stable de facto power which is Iran, this acceptance now even comes with the right of enrichment and the associated legal capabilities, his red lines are if Iran and her allies try to destabilize or overtake American clients states like his example of the first gulf war of Iraqi invasion of Kuwait he will try to defend them (Carter’s doctrine revisited).

    But I believe from what I understand this security umbrella only covers the Arab Sunni gulf oil sates, which gain from the American point of view he is right ( is easy to get public support to defend an oil state since the street can easily be shortened with price of oil) the fall of these states devalues the petrodollar and the result of that will be as good as if America was leveled with several atomic bomb, so as long as Iran will not destabilize KSA, Dubai, Kuwait, which she don’t need to, he can now live with an Iran that has the nuclear capability and is exercise its stabilizing independent foreign policy and is not after to destabilize the US’s oil rich client states.

    Hit Iran can and for sure will accept but the Arab street in related states will not accept they will ask for more control over their state and little by little they shall get it.

  239. Smith says:

    President Rouhani’s speech video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayYDRdly_Es

  240. kooshy says:

    Important points of his speech he clearly did not talk of “all options are on table”

    What broader conclusions can be drawn from America’s policy toward Syria? I know there are those who have been frustrated by our unwillingness to use our military might to depose Assad, and believe that a failure to do so indicates a weakening of America’s resolve in the region. Others have suggested that my willingness to direct even limited military strikes to deter the further use of chemical weapons shows that we have learned nothing from Iraq, and that America continues to seek control over the Middle East for our own purposes. In this way, the situation in Syria mirrors a contradiction that has persisted in the region for decades: the United States is chastised for meddling in the region, and accused of having a hand in all manner of conspiracy; at the same time, the United States is blamed for failing to do enough to solve the region’s problems, and for showing indifference toward suffering Muslim populations.

    I realize some of this is inevitable, given America’s role in the world. But these attitudes have a practical impact on the American peoples’ support for our involvement in the region, and allow leaders in the region – and the international community – to avoid addressing difficult problems. So let me take this opportunity to outline what has been U.S. policy towards the Middle East and North Africa, and what will be my policy during the remainder of my presidency.

    The United States of America is prepared to use all elements of our power, including military force, to secure these core interests in the region.

    We will confront external aggression against our allies and partners, as we did in the Gulf War.

    We will ensure the free flow of energy from the region to the world. Although America is steadily reducing our own dependence on imported oil, the world still depends upon the region’s energy supply, and a severe disruption could destabilize the entire global economy.

    We will dismantle terrorist networks that threaten our people. Wherever possible, we will build the capacity of our partners, respect the sovereignty of nations, and work to address the root causes of terror. But when its necessary to defend the United States against terrorist attacks, we will take direct action.

    And finally, we will not tolerate the development or use of weapons of mass destruction. Just as we consider the use of chemical weapons in Syria to be a threat to our own national security, we reject the development of nuclear weapons that could trigger a nuclear arms race in the region, and undermine the global non-proliferation regime.

    Now, to say these are America’s core interests is not to say these are our only interests. We deeply believe it is in our interest to see a Middle East and North Africa that is peaceful and prosperous; and will continue to promote democracy, human rights, and open markets, because we believe these practices achieve peace and prosperity. But I also believe that we can rarely achieve these objectives through unilateral American action – particularly with military action. Iraq shows us that democracy cannot be imposed by force. Rather, these objectives are best achieved when we partner with the international community, and with the countries and people of the region.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/obama-un-speech-transcript-2013-97261.html#ixzz2fr28kPWH

  241. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think you underscore yet another reason to regard George W. Bush as the Moron in the White House. Absurd claim that Israel’s enemies are by definition the enemies of the US.

  242. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Funny, as in foolish? David Frum’s idiotic contention two of the most aggressive Aipac stooges, Kirk and Menendez, should get credit for any deal with Iran.

  243. Sakineh Bagoom says:

    “Specifically about Black Americans; everything they have now they owe to the United States Government – the government that fought and freed them and later clothed and educated them and later still created subsidized jobs for them so that they could reach Middle Class level.”

    Well, this was just about as blood curdling, no, blood boiling as it gets fyi. How callous of you.
    How benevolent of Uncle Sam to have clothed them! The same Uncle Sam whom kidnapped them from their homes in the middle of the night and put them on a ship that they had to row across the ocean. The same Uncle Sam whom put them in plantations without status or pay. The same Uncle Sam whom created Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise a whole population. And the new Jim Crow laws today that have created an inordinate number of incarcerated blacks, just because of their skin color.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow
    The same Uncle Sam whom to this day tries to exclude from them ballot box by hook or crook, as we’ve see in Florida and elsewhere.

    Ever heard of DWB (driving while black) fyi?

    They are not free in America fyi. You live in a dream if you think so.

    This from the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Race

    “According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) non-Hispanic blacks accounted for 39.4% of the total prison and jail population in 2009 (841,000 black males and 64,800 black females out of a total of 2,096,300 males and 201,200 females)”

    This is just for non-Hispanic blacks.
    Wake up fyi. If anything blacks in the US are owed reparation.

    Oh, and Jeremiah Wright is not just any “writer”. He is Obama’s former mentor/pastor. So, he is a person of significance, and when thrown under the bus by Obama, well, it just shows what kind of statesman BHO really is.

  244. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 24, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    And yet again you fail to grasp what happened under Mr. Bush; US declared enemies of Israel to be her own enemies and escalated to a religious war against Islam – Shia and Sunni as you are witnessing now.

    US could, under Mr. Obama, renounce that policy posture but she has not; she has continued marching down that path which has made her despised by any and all Muslims.

    The United States leaders evidently think that a constant state of struggle against Islam is sustainable – well it is not.

    It will sap and ruin the United States.

  245. kooshy says:

    Obviously there could have other more credible excuse.
    In addition it seems strange for such trivial event to be reported.

    Mr. Rouhani not only is Iran’s president but firstly he is a Shieh clergy a Hojataol Islam, I don’t believe a shieh Muslim clergy can attend where they serve alcohol. I believe if he did go to that luncheon, no senior clergy in Iran including his political baker Akbar Raff. Couldn’t have protected him, in matters of days he would have been impeached. I he will lose actually think that was the only reason he couldn’t attend.

  246. Fiorangela says:

    kooshy — September 24, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    your optimism that “all options are” not on the table matches my own pride that Samantha Power did not put a whoopie cushion on Rouhani’s chair. Apparently the Israelis were delegated to carry out sophomoric tricks —

    Daily Beast: Israel Posts Parody of Rouhani LinkedIn Account by Eli Lake Sep 24, 2013
    While President Obama and President Rouhani consider what could be a historic handshake at the U.N. General Assembly, Israel is mocking the new Iranian president on social media. Eli Lake reports.

    But regarding —

    “We will confront external aggression against our allies and partners, as we did in the Gulf War.”

    I guess I’m stuck in WWII mode.

    I see a direct link from the fantasized WWII that David Ignatius noted (see
    September 24, 2013 at 10:33 am ) directly to Persian Gulf War.

    Jeffrey Engel explained George H. W. Bush’s decision to wage the Gulf War 1990-91:

    “Bush went to war like so many presidents before him, in search of a better world. . . . THE GULF WAR MARKED A FUNDAMENTAL TURNING POINT, A PIVOT POINT IN MODERN AMERICAN HISTORY. . . .

    “Why did bush go against decades of US policy in the region? It was no longer a bipolar world; Russia was US’s new best friend. ‘Bush saw the invasion of Iraq as a bridge to a better world, a new world order, a phrase unveiled in response to Hussein’s invasion was not just a catchy phrase, it was rather the result of a long difficult journey of intellectual discovery. Along with the majority of his national security team bush came late to the idea that the transformations in Russia under gorbachev were real, they could be trusted. . . .

    More profoundly, tho, bush recognized that the end of the cold war eliminated the most stable aspect of the international system since 1945 – and Bush above all else is enamored by international stability – time and again Bush … told global leaders that their alliances required an enemy to survive. In his words, the new enemy was instability itself. “A united Germany could not leave Germany,” he told Kohl, because “ now the enemy is unpredictability, apathy and destabilization.” . . .

    In Dec. 1989 he lost his temper when reporters pressed him to declare the cold war over because he simply did not know the answer to the next obvious and fundamental question: What came next?

    “Is the cold war the same? he barked,. . .Absolutely not. Things have moved dramatically. But if I signal to you that there’s no cold war then it’s What are you doing with those troops in Europe. I mean Come on.”

    I am reminded of an essay titled “80 Yard Run,” – a man whose one moment of glory was a high school triumph: he ran the ball 80 yards, got the winning touchdown in the last game of his high school career and simultaneously won the love of the beautiful girl who became his wife. But 25 years on, all he had to show for his life was that 80 yard run and a wife with whom he had no other basis for a relationship. (Spoiler alert: the essay peaks with images of being born again, and the man matures and creates a new life for himself. He does not go to war, nor does he buy a gun & go on a shooting spree.)

    The United States is stuck in its “80 yard run” moment– its perceived heroism – almost entirely false, by the way – in World War II in which ‘winning’ endowed the USA with master of the universe status that it has not been able to shake, no matter how glaring the evidence of US criminality.

    Back to Mr. Engel’s analysis —

    Bush saw in the Gulf war an opportunity … a chance to demonstrate that Washington would continue to lead no matter what the future might bring, leading particularly towards the kind of world HIS generation was promised as their reward for service in World War II. It would be a world with ‘a United Nations free from cold war stalemates, poised to fulfill its historic vision of its founders.’ “
    “The prospect of a global peace continues to depend on an American forward presence.”
    The war to liberate Kuwait was not an end in itself but a means to an end. There would be no quick end to the war because the war was not the issue; at stake was the world to come, the better world, the post-cold war world, the world in which aggressors learned not to invade, the world in which sovereignty was respected and the united states and its allies – the Soviet Union included, potentially – looked out for the peace.”

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Intothe

  247. Kathleen says:

    Even though MSNBC Chris Matthews was talking up the negotiations going on between the U.S. and Iran he repeated some stupid, dangerous and inflammatory statements about Iran. That Iran was “pushing to build nuclear weapons” Said nothing about their right to enrich as signatories to the NPT and of course nothing about Israel the nation pushing a confrontation’s refusal over and over again to sign the NPT. Nothing out of Matthews. And his guest Micheal Crowley was in lock step with neocons…and his other alleged expert guest on Iran was Eugene Robinson come on….when will he have the Leveretts on. Or is Chris Matthews committed to keeping the American public in the dark about the facts having to do with Iran? Sure seems like it. Hope folks watch those clips

  248. kooshy says:

    Fior

    Thank you for your response, with all due respect which for your opinion I have plenty respect, I wrote if we believe (take) Mr. Obama’s (for his) words. Actually, I am not too optimistic of a rapprochement, but I am fairly optimistic to a détente especially after how Syria got handled (too me it showed the American elites the limit of their domestic and international policy implementation). The optimism I have for US’s acceptance of a détente is not solely based on Iran’s defensive posture and the damage she can level on US in case of a war on her territory. I am rather optimistic because mostly I see a possible policy change in US accepting a détente with Iran, I see this mostly due to US domestic and US’s military’s cost calculations and capabilities, when the military has a very low moral loosing 2 wars and the street is under severe economic conditions since also 2007. This was revealed for the first time in 2007 when in my opinion US military accepted that both wars were lost, as once can note since 2007 US military not only doesn’t show but publicly rejects and criticizes any political enthusiasm for waging and being used for any new war. Beside and since 2011 we also see a rejection for new war by the street level ordinary Americans since.

    I don’t see any time soon any US president can change US’s policy to rapprochement or even to an strategic understanding with Iran, but a cold shouldered détente out of necessity is possible and we might are looking at the preparation of American’s for it. I believe we can see a strategic acceptance or even a rapprochement proposed by US to Iran if and when Russia directly challenges US hegemony in the region.

  249. masoud says:

    I found Rouhani’s speech to be, not unlike Rouhani himself, bumbling and incompetent. But I have no doubt that media’s coverage of his speech will be every bit as fawning as it was of Ghadaffi’s.

    The only interesting bits in it were clearly derived from the talking points that Zarif has been expounding on for some years. Zarif may be a horrible strategist, but he is a brilliant tactician.

    I found this hilarious: Rouhani addresses the American people in English. It’s not quite as bad as Obama’s Farsi, but that’s the best you can say about it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHxPdihLfek

    I really want to know more about his doctoral thesis now. I hope he at least had the humility to make use of a translator when negotiating with the p5+1.

  250. kooshy says:

    Empty, Bi, UU

    Do you know if President Ruhani being a clergy can be taken to special Clergy’s court and or be stripped of his cloth while he remains president?

  251. Sineva says:

    kooshy says:
    September 24, 2013 at 7:11 pm
    That is probably the only good point in his speech,the rest of it is just restating the same old crap

  252. Empty says:

    Kooshy,

    You’re asking a very odd question. I’d be interested to know what motivated you to ask this. At any rate, “خلع لباس” or removal of a cleric of his clerical attire is possible only if a cleric has violated the very behaviors he pledged to uphold when wearing the attire. The evidence for this should be quite clear and unambiguous and it cannot happen willy nilly or be politically motivated.

    If President Ruhani, God forbid, engages in a behavior that violates his oat of the clerical attire, the nature of that behavior must be such that it would also violate his presidential oat and would be impeached. Differences of political opinion or approaches to politics do not justify such actions.

    I must also note that President Ruhani, as someone whose public attire is a symbolic representation of “روحانیت” is in a much more complicated position as a president than Presidents Ahmadinejad, Raja’ei, and Banisadr were.

  253. Karl.. says:

    masoud, sineva

    About the speech, you watched the dubbed version right?

  254. kooshy says:

    Empty Jaan thanks for your reply
    Let say if President Rouhani was cut knowingly drinking alcoholic beverages or adulatory and due to this he is stripped of his clergy’s cloth, is the constitution says that as an act that requires him to be impeached

    Or do you think that there is something he can do to be stripped from being a clergy but not from presidency? I think the visa versa is possible, do only reason I asked was to know if there is any contradictions, like you mentioned it complicates his presidency more than that of a non-clergy. Like if President Ahmadinejad went to Chavez funeral and kissed Chavez mother he didn’t get impeached for that, but if Mr. Rohani did the same he may lose his clergy status?

    Thanks again

  255. Empty says:

    Kooshy,

    If he (or any other president) engaged in those acts, yes, he would be impeached. According to Article 115 of the constitution regarding the president’s qualification, it reads, ” ایرانی‏ الاصل‏، تابع ایران‏، مدیر و مدبر، دارای‏
    حسن‏ سابقه‏ و امانت‏ و تقوی‏، مومن‏ و معتقد به‏ مبانی‏ جمهوری‏ اسلامی‏ ایران‏ و
    مذهب‏ رسمی‏ کشور.” [Translation/interpretation: “Iranian in origin, citizenship of Iran, an astute manager, decent background and trustworthiness and ‘taqwa’, a pious believer in the foundation of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the formal religion of the country.”

    Such acts will for sure violate several of the qualifications stated above. As for president Ahmadinejad and what happened during president Chavez’s funeral (May he rest in peace), he was not engaged in any of those acts (though people tried to make too much of it). A grieved mother was overcome by emotion and hugged Ahmadinejad in a moment of despair. They made a lot of this outside of Iran but inside Iran, many religious people I spoke with would say that they understood he was in a very tough situation and there was not much he could have done right at that moment. None of them suggested that abruptly pulling away would have been a good idea either.

    What you’re suggesting in your first paragraph refers to deliberate and knowing engagement in acts that clearly fall outside of a pious believer’s and taqwa domain and become a cause for impeachment (for plain-clothed presidents) and removal of attire both (for clerics in position of president) as I am understanding the constitution. Others might have different opinions to share.

  256. kooshy says:

    Empty Jaan Thanks

    Now what would you think would happened if president Ruhani did attended Mr. Moon’s UN luncheon today, knowing they were serving alcohol, but he knowingly did attend but he didn’t drink.

    This I ask because I wrote a reply on this earlier but I was not sure if it was right.

    Thanks

  257. Empty says:

    Kooshy,

    Certainly. I extracted the text bit that might answer your question from Ayatollah Khamenei’s site. It reads as follow:

    س 1431: در جلسات و انجمن‏هايى که در بعضى از کشورهاى غير اسلامى تشکيل مى‏شود، طبق عادت براى پذيرايى حاضران از مشروبات الکلى استفاده مى‏شود، آيا شرکت در اين جلسات و انجمن‏ها جايز است؟

    ج: حضور در مجلسى که در آن شراب خورده مى‏شود جايز نيست و در صورت اضطرار واجب است به مقدار ضرورت اکتفا شود.

    [Translation/Interpretation: “Question #1431: In meetings and organizations that are held in some non-Islamic country, based on custom, alcoholic beverages are used/offered to guests. Is it permitted to attend these meetings and organizations?

    Answer: Attendance in gatherings in which alcohol is drunk is not permissible and attendance must be made limited only to segments that are absolutely necessity.”]

    Attending a banquet sponsored by whoever is not considered an “absolutely necessity”.

  258. Empty says:

    in some non-Islamic countries, rather…….
    based on their customs, rather….
    that are considered an absolute necessity, rather…..

    Sorry for all the typos….

  259. Karl.. says:

    so netanyahu will speak today, what can we expect?

    nazi references? new lies about Iran? holocaust references?

  260. kooshy says:

    Karl.. Says:
    September 25, 2013 at 5:05 am

    “so netanyahu will speak today, what can we expect?”

    Looney Tunes’s Wile E. Coyote, explodes his “last year” bomb, Wile accidently triggers the charge while drawing his tolerance limit red line.
    Oh, triggering a bob due to drawing one’s red tolerance lines sounds familiar!

    Thanks a lot Empty that said it

    Man got to know his limitations, and he did

  261. M.Ali says:

    I wonder how many repeats of the phrase “charm offensive” we have to tolerate in the media until it finally stops.

  262. M.Ali says:

    So, I’m just listening to random state leader’s UN speeches, and I’m surprised how incredibly boring they all are.

  263. BiBiJon says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 25, 2013 at 7:38 am

    “I wonder how many repeats of the phrase “charm offensive” we have to tolerate in the media until it finally stops.”

    There’s race between that, and putting “reasonable concerns” in scarey quotes. For Rouhani not to have declared Iran’s readiness to resolve anybody and everybody’s concerns, including absurdly unreasonable ones, has gotten the Guardian ‘unreasonably concerned.’

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/24/iran-president-hassan-rouhani-un-speech

    Concerns such as Saddam, being a moron, could be hiding BW & CW in his palaces where he frequently slept, and showing equal disregard for the environment given his truck-mounted Anthrax production labs, and whatever else a hysterical MSM decides to headline is the way to solve all world problems.

  264. Neo says:

    James Canning says: September 23, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    “Obama appears to comprehend the US cannot determine who would emerge in control of Syria if the government is overthrown.”

    James,

    Obama is the only US president in whose election I took an interest (as an outsider). So much promise and ‘hope’ as compared to that McCain clown. But by now, I think nothing that he says is worth spending much time on.

    US presidents, it would appear, do not determine US foreign policy. If I am wrong, then it must be the case that US presidents never speak the truth. Perhaps it is also the case that they never speak the truth at the same time as they do not determine US foreign policy!

    So I agree with your statement. He seems to comprehend it, but I guess he just can’t admit it.

  265. Neo says:

    Good day at the UN yesterday. Rouhani is cleverly taking advantage of the anti-Ahmadinejad bandwagon to push the Iranian agenda. Everyone seems to be in on pretending that things have really changed because Mahmoud is gone. This is to the benefit of all concerned except for the man (Ahmadinejad) who actually made it all possible by raising the stakes. Now both sides are keen for detente, and Mahmoud is as good a scapegoat as any…

    Regardless of whether the problems between Iran and USA are resolved, the US-led sanctions that have been forced on the rest of the world are severely undermined already now. They can only get weaker from now on.

  266. fyi says:

    Neo says:

    September 25, 2013 at 8:58 am

    I think that Iranian have at least another 4 or 5 years before Iran is adjusted to the sanctions regime.

    I think they already are feeling stronger since they rejected India’s request to receive rupees for all their oil payments.

    I think that could indicate that methods and channels have been found that are helping the repatriation of oil money to Iran.

    If I am correct, then the removal of sanctions on the Central Bank of Iran and the re-inclusion of Iran in SWIFT will not be of much worth to Iran in a few more years.

    I also think given the industrial and transporation over-capacity in the world today, the efects of the sanctions regime could be mitigated – say at 55% (I am guessing).

    Mr. Obama adviced Iran in a TV INterview to realize that Syria cannot go back to the status quo ante of 2010.

    That statement equally well applies to US, EU, Russia, China, India: that their relations with Iran cannot go back to the staus quo ante of 2010 when the effort to destroy Iran through economic siege war began in earnest.

    That is, the channels, methods, and instrumentalities that Iranians have devised in the past 3 years to fight and eventually eviscerate the sanctions will not be dismantled.

    To wit: I think the strategy of placing Iran as a reliable energy partner to India, Korea, Japan, and China needs to be completely discarded. Being a reliable producer would require a reliable consumer – none was there during the last 3 years.

    In the oil sector (and not gas), Iran must dissolve all long-term oil contracts and never sign anything like them again.

    She should sell all of her (crude) oil and oil-dervied products on the Spot Market.

    In this manner, she can turn off the oil-spigot whenever she wishes and has no legal obligation to stop her.

    That is the only way – you cannot try to destroy a country and after failing expect to go back to business-as-usual.

  267. Fiorangela says:

    Somebody’s really riled over William Kristol’s “charm offensive” (h/t M Ali)

  268. Fiorangela says:

    fyi says: September 25, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Why would anyone pay attention to Leslie Gelb?

    Isn’t he the “public intellectual” who endorsed war on Iraq then tried to exonerate himself by claiming “there is so much pressure on public persons to go along…”

    He’s doing nothing more than singing for his supper.

    A garbage collector does a more valuable service.

  269. Photi says:

    Just finished reading the text of President Rohani’s speech at the UN. His case presenting Iran as an “anchor of stability in an otherwise ocean of regional instabilities” was persuasive and needs to be heard by leaders across the globe. Those not given to the propagandist view of Iran as a ‘mad belligerent’ will understand Rohani’s words against violence and extremism to be quite Iranian, Shia, and sincere.

    The following is an excerpt from President Rohani’s speech specifically concerning Iran’s nuclear program and upcoming negotiations:

    ” Put otherwise, Iran and other actors should pursue two common objectives as two mutually inseparable parts of a political solution for the nuclear dossier of Iran.

    1. Iran’s nuclear program- and for that matter, that of all other countries -must pursue exclusively peaceful purposes. I declare here, openly and unambiguously, that, notwithstanding the positions of others, this has been, and will always be, the objective of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Nuclear weapon and other weapons of mass destruction have no place in Iran’s security and defense doctrine, and contradict our fundamental religious and ethical convictions. Our national interests make it imperative that we remove any and all reasonable concerns about Iran’s peaceful nuclear program.

    2. The second objective, that is, acceptance of and respect for the implementation of the right to enrichment inside Iran and enjoyment of other related nuclear rights, provides the only path towards achieving the first objective. Nuclear knowledge in Iran has been domesticated now and the nuclear technology, inclusive of enrichment, has already reached industrial scale. It is, therefore, an illusion, and extremely unrealistic, to presume that the peaceful nature of the nuclear program of lran could be ensured through impeding the program via illegitimate pressures.

    In this context, the Islamic Republic of Iran, insisting on the implementation of its rights and the imperative of international respect and cooperation in this exercise, is prepared to engage immediately in time-bound and result-oriented talks to build mutual confidence and removal of mutual uncertainties with full transparency.

    Iran seeks constructive engagement with other countries based on mutual respect and common interest, and within the same framework does not seek to increase tensions with the United States. I listened carefully to the statement made by President Obama today at the General Assembly. Commensurate with the political will of the leadership in the United States and hoping that they will refrain from following the short-sighted interest of warmongering pressure groups, we can arrive at a framework to manage our differences. To this end, equal footing, mutual respect, and the recognized principles of international law should govern the interactions. Of course, we expect to hear a consistent voice from Washington.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.548913

  270. Photi says:

    Rohani closes his speech with this gem from the Qur’an:

    And We proclaimed in the Psalms, after we had proclaimed in the Torah, that My virtuous servants will inherit the earth. (21:105)

    Certainly there is room for peace between the religions. The “religious war” is the fantasy, those who love peace in the religions are pre-ordained to victory.

  271. Photi says:

    *the last part (“Certainly….”) was my contribution and was not supposed to be italicized.

  272. Fiorangela says:

    “I suspect if the Iranians are smart they will come to the negotiating table and say, OK, we are ready to move to a transitional government [in Syria] without Assad, but this is what we want in return: We want some of the sanctions to be lifted. I suspect that’s going to be part of the conversations if indeed they go on.”

    Genieve Abdel, Brookings, Stimson Center.

    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2013/09/25/227894-crosstalk-obama-vs-rouhani/

  273. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    September 25, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Actually Dr. Assad is going to remain in power. The Syrian army is winning the war. US minions are out. Today, the rebel forces on the ground rejected the US formed, financed and recognized government in asylum and so called “secular/democratic” opposition. The gloves are coming off. There was no democratic opposition. It was always wahabi drones sent in by US allies: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24239779

    And no. Sanctions will never be removed. We all know that. We are not children. US can not even pass its annual government budget in congress so expecting the sanctions to be removed by such a congress is a foolish dream. In fact in better times when Congress was a rubber stamp institution for Bush, it took congress 6 years after invasion of Iraq for most sanctions against that country to be removed at the request of Bush. There are still some Saddam era sanctions on Iraq remaining.

  274. James Canning says:

    Financial Times report today on Rouhani’s UN speech called attention to his warning against warmongering pressure groups in the US. (Meaning Aipac, ADL etc.)

  275. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Fair to say Iran’s oil revenues (from export sales) are down by half, from $100 billion per annum that was achieved prior to EU sanctions (and latest banking sanctions)?

  276. James Canning says:

    fyi & Fiorangela,

    Leslie Gelb claims (in piece linked by FYI): “According to administration officials, [Obama] has not gotten close to [smart compromises].” (With Iran)

    True statement? Or deliberate deception, given the hints Obama would accept Iranian enrichment to 5%?

  277. James Canning says:

    Neo,

    I think General Dempsey in eeffect was speaking for Obama, when Dempsey said the US cannot determine who would emerge in control of Syria, if Assad is overthrown.

    However, I think an Iranian failure to indicate a deal with E3+3 can be achieved, will in effect pressure Obama to work harder to overthrow Syrian government.

  278. James Canning says:

    Neo,

    Rouhani in effect admits $600 billion has been pulled out of Iran in last few years due to sanctions. And Iran is losing at least a further $100 billion in lost oil exports, yearly. Nuclear dispute is easily a $1 trillion hit to Iranian economy.

  279. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 25, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Wars are always costly.

    This is the seond time in less than 2 generations that war has been brought to Iran.

    The first one – with Iraq – severed Iran from the Sunni Arab World.

    The second one – economic war by the Axis Powers -severed Iran from EU.

    Both of these consequences will persists indefinitely into the future.

  280. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Your contention Iran need not make a deal with P5+1 is simply wildly mistaken.

  281. James Canning says:

    Neo,

    Obama does make most of the calls (foreign policy). But obviously pressure groups figure into matters, as Rouhani pointed out in his UN speeech.

  282. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Mr. Obama cannot put any credible deal on the table and enforce it.

    US is not ripe for such a deal.

    The most charitable view would be that there is an agreement by Mr. Obama and Iranian leaders to create the illusion of negogiations while leaving the antagonisms intact.

    Furthermore, the Iranian leaders will be using this to demonstrate to audiences – foreign and domestic – that they tried to negogiate with Mr. Obama and US but could not succeed since the Americans were forthcoming.

    You have to understand that Axis Powers estimate that 2013 is the best time for them to get a deal – without giving anything back to Iran.

    There will be no deal no matter how much China or India or Russia desire it – not now and not in 2014.

  283. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    Julian Borger (in Guardian piece you linked) complains Rouhani was “too vague” about what Iran is willing to offer. Borger should have mentioned Iran has indicated numerous times it is willing to stop enriching to 20.

  284. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You fail to consider that many powerful businessmen in the west would very much like to see an easing of the sanctions against Iran. It is hard for them to make their case for such an easing, if Iran seems intent on getting close to ability to builod nukes quickly.

    Obama has said the US does not seek regime change. Surely this is of some value.

    Obama has hinted he will accept Iranian enrichment to 5%. Surely this is of some value.

    Failing to make a deal is not an option for Iran, in my view. Ys, an unstated deal, of some sort, may well be possible.

  285. Ataune says:

    @Canning

    “Rouhani in effect admits $600 billion has been pulled out of Iran in last few years due to sanctions. And Iran is losing at least a further $100 billion in lost oil exports, yearly. Nuclear dispute is easily a $1 trillion hit to Iranian economy.”

    This is rubbish just used for propaganda purpose. I am not even sure that the way it has been reported in the western media represents the reality.

    Iran’s GNP/year is roughly 900 billions. A loss of 250 billions per year (which adds up to the 1 trillion in 4 few years you claim) would have had an incremental impact of Great Depression size in Iran. But we all know that the country reported negative growth only for the most recent statistical year of 2012, in the amount of around -5%, essentially due to the reduction in oil revenues.

  286. James Canning says:

    Kathleen,

    Thanks for the report on Chris Matthews’ stupidity (of one is kind), in his comments about Iran’s nuclear programme.

  287. James Canning says:

    If one is kind. (Assessing Chris Matthews’ stupidity)

  288. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 25, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    What business men think is irrelevant – Axis Powers are bent on destroying Iran.

    Mr. Obama’s UN statement that US does not seek regime change in Iran is worthless; we have the events subsequent to August 21 of this year to thank for bringing strategic clarity to US position on Iran.

    There is no negogiable deal that would unwind the economic war against Iran – and you are misreading what is going on if you think that there is any chance of that.

    Axis Powers smell victory and all of this is a charade.

  289. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    September 25, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    I agree.

    I sense no desparation in Iran or among Iranian officials (those whose comments I can read in Iranian press from time to time.)

    I think negogiations with Iran are possible but for that Axis Powers have to accept that Iran will retain the option of building nuclear weapons if her leaders determine that she requires them.

    Everything else will flow from there.

    But Axis Powers are not yet ready.

  290. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Rouhani made clear Iran is not trying to build nukes and is willing to accept limits that prove it.

    Focus should soon turn toward pressuring Israel to get rid of its nukes.

  291. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Utter nonsense, that Germany, France, UK, US “are bent on destroying Iran”. YES, Netanyahu wants Iran hurt badly, so Israel can continue to scr*w the Palestinians.
    YES, some Gulf Arab leaders also would like to see Iran badly injured.

  292. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Iran can suspend enriching to 20. Stop plutonium programme. No harm to Iranian national security interests. And this would greatly undercut the “warmongering groups” Rouhani referred to in his UN speeech.

  293. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I do agree with your implicit contention that the numerous Aipac stooges in the US Congress make it difficult for Obama to obtain sanctions relief for Iran.

  294. James Canning says:

    Kathleen,

    Do you think Chris Matthews simply is willing to help deceive the American public because this helps his career?

  295. James Canning says:

    @Ataune,

    Rouhani’s representative in parliament gave the figure of $600 billion, for amount of funds pulled out of Iran in last few years due to economic uncertainty. Iran is losing at least $200 million per day, in lost oil exports. (Assuming Iran easily could sell two million barrels more than it does)

  296. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 25, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Suspension and resumption of 20% on as needed basis is acceptable.

    Suspension of Arak reactor is not; Iran has to learn to build nature uranium nuclear reactors in the absence of guaranteed nuclear fuel or raw uranium from abroad.

    Any promises or guarantees – even written ones – by Axis Powers or their minions – for supply of Light Water Reactors to Iran in lieu of teh Arak Heavy Water Reactor is worthless and cannot be trusted.

    We saw that in case of North Korea.

    Without Arak, Darkhovin cannot be built.

    Without Darkhovin, Iran will be limited in her nuclear industry.

  297. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Assuming normal relations between the US and Iran is achieved, Iran would have no need to worry about access to yellowcake.

  298. Ataune says:

    @Canning

    “Assuming normal relations between the US and Iran is achieved, Iran would have no need to worry about access to yellowcake.”

    At the least this can be said to be a deceptive statement. In the mid-70s Iran had supposedly the warmest possible relations witht he US but the latter was preparing ways of weakening Iran after having realized that the former, a proclaimed friend of her, was planing enrichment facility projects in the country.

  299. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 25, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    Decades from now you would be right.

    But by that time, I imagine Iranians will have many natural uranium reactors using heavy reactors and not need as much yellow cake.

  300. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 25, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    I do not think white man will ever allow Iran access to such materials. After depleting her currently known mines, Iran will either have to find new mines or alternatively start recovering uranium from sea water. The white man did not even allow Iran access to Iran’s own property of Rossing uranium mine (or for that matter another Iranian property the Eurodif enrichment plant). But with construction of heavy water reactors and then fast breeder reactors, Iran’s need for uranium is going to be very small specially in the case of fast breeder reactors since they produce more nuclear fuel than they consume. So it is an irrelevant matter.

  301. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 25, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    US had a breeder reactor program that they dismantled some time during 1990s.

    Japan continued with her own breeder reactor program but it was ended early this year.

    I think a consortium approach to fast breeder reactor is the most sensible one – with as many countries as wish to participate.

    The UN Centre for Fast Breeder Reactor could be located in Kazakhstan or Iran – but not in any Axis Power-aligned state, or in Russia, or in China.

    And certainly not in India.

    Fast Breeder Reactors are the only feasible solution – I agree – to the long term energy budget of human societies; and not such White Elephans as Nuclear Fusion, Solar Energy etc.

  302. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    September 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    with respect, James, Yawn (Gelb) and Irrelevant (20%)

  303. BiBiJon says:

    fyi,

    “Mr. Obama’s UN statement that US does not seek regime change in Iran is worthless; we have the events subsequent to August 21 of this year to thank for bringing strategic clarity to US position on Iran.”

    If you don’t mind, please spell out what the events subsequent to August 21st were.

    For all anybody knows, Britain, France and KSA conjured up a false flag in their attempts to regain control of Iraq/Syria/Lebanon x-colonies; US decided to accede to some of their demands, not a Libya-style, but a “limited Strike” in order to have more options open to US as the game plays out, they may have even intended accidental hits on al-Nusra while they were at it; then, as we all know, US backed out.

  304. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 25, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    That is right, the fast breeder reactor is the energy source of future (and presence). Though no such consortium will happen. That is, I guess only a wishful thinking. The world is increasingly a selfish place. Each for his own.

    The most successful breeder reactor technologies have been those of France, Germany, Japan and Russia. Except Russia, all others started their breeder programs because of uranium supply problems (none had uranium mines in their countries). Japanese even went further and worked on technologies for uranium recovery from sea water (most of uranium on earth is actually dissolved in ocean water).

    Using modern technologies it would cost about a thousand dollar per kilogram to recover uranium from ocean. Though at this price, uranium is economically very much feasible in modern reactors and more so in breeder reactors but Japan did not go to industrial stage for the simple reason that it had access to stolen uranium from Africa which is quite cheap (for example from the Iranian owned mine there).

    And the most technologically advanced breeder reactor is actually Russian and is actually situated on Caspian sea across from Iran (produces electricity, district heating and desalinates water for agricultural use) consuming just about one percent uranium fuel that Bushehr consumes per unit of elecgtricity: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Current-and-Future-Generation/Fast-Neutron-Reactors/#.UkNVxtL1rbg

  305. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 25, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Also about India, they have half of the world’s thorium reserves, and they have a rather advanced program developing thorium reactors beside their quest for fast breeders. (I have no info on Iran’s thorium reserves, so I can not advise on this route for Iran).

  306. Smith says:

    Don’t Go Baghdad on Iran (or in other words Tehran is on its way to become another Baghdad): http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138201/rolf-ekeus-and-malfrid-braut-hegghammer/dont-go-baghdad-on-tehran

    Translated by BBC Farsi: تهران را بغداد نکنید: http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/iran/2013/09/130911_l23_nt10_iran_nuclear_talk_10_years_trhran_baghdad_ra_mh.shtml

  307. Smith says:

    Don’t Go Baghdad on Iran (or in other words Tehran is on its way to become another Baghdad): http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138201/rolf-ekeus-and-malfrid-braut-hegghammer/dont-go-baghdad-on-tehran

    Translated by BBC Farsi: تهران را بغداد نکنید:bbc.co.uk/persian/iran/2013/09/130911_l23_nt10_iran_nuclear_talk_10_years_trhran_baghdad_ra_mh.shtml

  308. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    You think it does not matter if Gelb is a liar?

  309. James Canning says:

    @Ataune,

    I do not think it unreasonable for the US to agree to Iranian purchases of yellowcake, assuming plutonium programme is ended.

    I doubt any deal is possible (E3+3) without termination of that programme.

  310. Karl.. says:

    I dont understand why Rouhani/Iran dont speak more on their nuclear rights according to what international law says or using international law when critising Israel or the US. That would give them lots of credibility.

  311. Karld.. says:

    I dont understand why Rouhani/Iran dont speak more on their nuclear rights according to what international law says or using international law when critising Israel or the US. That would give them lots of credibility.

  312. Karl. says:

    I dont understand why Rouhani/Iran dont speak more on their nuclear rights according to what international law says or using international law when critising Israel or the US. That would give them lots of credibility.

  313. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:
    September 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    I have reluctantly come to agree with the assessment of Mr. Richard Steven Hack.

    The aim was always the destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    When the project to destroy the Ba’ath State in Syria failed; the false-flag attack was conjured up.

    Just like the line in Mr. Bush I’s speech about Kosovo which was used by Mr. Clinton to destroy the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, the line about the chemical weapons was put into Mr. Obama’s speech to the analogous purpose of creating the justification for him to go to war.

    This is again consistent with the Axis of Evil Speech of Mr. Bush II.

    Of the 3 states targeted in that speech, one is destroyed, one became armed with nuclear weapons and one has expanded to create the Shia Crescent (with Defense in Depth).

    The game plan was evidently to create the cause belli through the Saudi Arabia’s false flag machinations, followed by another Coalition-of-the-Willing, this time US, UK, France, attacking Syria and destroying the current government.

    [Iranians, by the way, did not budge.]

    The destruction of the Syria Ba’ath state – per Mr. Hack’s prognostications – would have been followed by another manufactured incident – this time to justify Israel or even joint US-Israel attack of Hezbollah.

    After that would have been the turn of Iran.

    This all quite clear.

  314. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 25, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    Arak will go on.

  315. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 25, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    I think if Indians could make Thorium reactors working, they would have been able to do so by now.

    Just like nuclear fusion, it is not going to happen.

  316. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 25, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    Yes, and then there is a need for desalination plants as the Iranian plateau is further desiccated due to global warming; I think we are in the 18-th year of draught across Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan and parts of Iraq and Syria.

    But to your point, no nuclear technology will be transferred to Iran; those are just lies about light water reactors in lieu of Arak or anything else.

    Iranians should continue with their current course and ignore the Axis Powers, Russia, and China – none of those states can guarantee anything to Iran.

  317. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 25, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Well, unlike nuclear fusion, the technology of thorium reactor is within reach (US actually had made some prototypes in 60’s but then shut them down in favor of uranium fast breeders because they were more efficient). So it all depends how good Indian engineering is. They are building the first power reactor after having done some experiments for the past 35 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHWR

    But of course for Iran, it is all meaningless. Since thorium reactors can not produce weapon grade material so they are basically useless from security stand point of view. For India, it does not matter since they already have got nuclear weapons. For Iran the course of action has to be heavy water reactors and fast breeders in order to cost effectively produce both nuclear fuel and weapon material.

  318. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 25, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    As said before, the invaluable strategic clarity brought about by the events of the last 34 days makes reaching any substantive deal with Iran impossible.

    Since, per Libya and now per this posting, Iran would be attacked at the first opportune time, major concessions from Iran will not be forthcoming.

    A cosmetic deal might be achievable but nothing more; we have passed the time that ideas of the likes of Mr. Moussavian or Rolf Ekéus & Målfrid Braut-Hegghammer can gain any traction.

    Cleverly, the Iranians are now asking for a deal within 3 to 6 months – knowing that Axis Powers cannot reach any acceptable deal (to Iran) in that time frame.

    The coming failure of these talks will give Iran the political basis to withdraw from the NPT at the next opportune time.

  319. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 25, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Of course they are lies. Just like the lies they sold to North Koreans. It is amazing how similar to N.Korea things are going in Iran. US had promised N.Koreans to buy them two light water Russian reactors (the same model Russia built in Bushehr) if N.Koreans stop their plutonium breeder reactor program. The reactors never came.

    As for desalination and nuclear power, it is so important that I can not even find words to describe it. Iran does not have any major river systems. It is a dry land basically. With global warming only going to get worse in coming decades and centuries, the large Iranians population will start to experience famines. It is only a matter of time. Already water riots in Iran are happening. In almost all areas of Iran, the underground water table has so much sunk that it is becoming increasingly impossible to lift whatever water is left in the ground.

    It is funny. Because even Shah knew these things would eventually happen. That is why Bushehr nuclear power plant in its German configuration of two 1300 MWe reactors was designed to desalinate over a Quarter of a million cubic meters of water per day in addition to the electricity it produced. The Russians obviously removed the desalination part from the plant.

    Desalination is a very energy intensive process. Nuclear reactors can provide their waste heat after electricity generation for desalination which would make it almost free. A report I had read, had pointed out that Iran would need some 100 nuclear reactors in 1000 MWe class in order to secure itself against droughts, water shortages and guaranteed agricultural production for its population. These reactors have to dot the Persian Gulf, Sea of Oman and Caspian sea (in the case of latter water tunnels would transfer the water for use in areas such Semnan etc).

    Without nuclear technology Iran will die. It is as simple as that. Already Iran’s water consumption has exceeded the renewable water Iran receives. And over the past centuries, the water Iran is receiving is going down every year. The disaster is only a couple of decades away.

  320. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 25, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    I agree. I really wish Iran had the same level of technology as today back in 1998 when India and Pakistan tested their nuclear weapons. As you have times and again said, that was the most opportune time to pull out of this fascist, colonial, imperial, dehumanizing, slavery treaty. A treaty give you nothing back only takes and takes and takes. It is even worse than working on sugar plantation being whipped by the white man and the wife getting raped by the teenage boy of the mater white man. It is so degrading. I have come to feel extreme hatred whenever I hear the freedom killing NPT. After all, it was Shah that signed it. Why should we as a democratic country be held up to it.

    One, question. What you think that opportunity would be? I mean in case of North Korea they used the opportune time of US attacking Iraq. Do you think such a scenario would be possible?

  321. Smith says:

    As fyi said above:

    Iran wants nuclear deal in 3 to 6 months: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24278152

    I guess after that, the white man can shove NPT up his ass, where it belongs.

  322. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    September 25, 2013 at 3:17 pm
    In that case why stop there why not say they would have access to fuel as well,the problem here is one of trust or rather the lack of it,western guarantees arent worth much that is why the iranians have done what they have in the nuclear sector,its about being completely self sufficient,hence irans mastery of the fuel cycle and the development of heavy water reactors.As far as arak is concerned the best the west could hope for would for it to be placed under iaea safeguards,the idea of scrapping it at this point is absurd

  323. Smith says:

    Iran for the past four decades has already owned Eurodif enrichment factory in France. But Iran could not get even a microgram of enriched uranium from that facility. All of it is used to power French reactors and produce nuclear weapons for France (French actually threatened to nuke Tehran with nuclear material produced by this facility).

    Iran for the past four decades has already owned the Rössing uranium mine, the world’s second largest uranium mine. But all this time, Iran has not been able to get even a fraction of a gram of uranium from this Iranian owned mine, which supplies French, British, German and Japanese reactors.

    Iran had paid for two 900 MWe reactors to France. They never delivered the reactors. Those Iranian reactors are now working at Gravelines Nuclear Power Station in France.

    The case of Bushehr is well known so no need to talk about it here. Suffice to say, that Germans had actually the little humility and conscious to offer Iran to make two 1300 MWe natural gas power plant instead of the original atomic ones which Iran refused.

    With such track record, the guarantee of the white man is meaningless. Absolutely crap. Iran already owns nuclear facilities outside of Iran’s borders. If Iran can not even access those, then even talk of a guarantee is a dark joke.

  324. Smith says:

    My above comment is for:

    Sineva says:
    September 25, 2013 at 8:55 pm

  325. Richard Steven Hack says:

    fyi: “I have reluctantly come to agree with the assessment of Mr. Richard Steven Hack.”

    I’m gob-smacked.

    Hell has frozen over.

    Who is this person posting as fyi? :-)

    Meanwhile, for BiBiJob and his romantic relationship with Obama…

    Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/05/obama-kill-list-doj-memo

    One of Glenn Greenwald’s longest articles ever and a must read. THIS is who Obama really is…a cold-blooded murderer of just about anyone he wants. A person totally drunk with power who will start more wars before the end of his term. A person who makes George Dubya look sane and honest.

  326. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Pepe Escobar on Rouhani surfs the new WAVE
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-02-250913.html

    Quote

    It all comes back to the same drama; will Obama and his team have enough balls to stare down the Israel lobby, the House of Saud, the neo-cons and assorted armchair warmongers across the Beltway? If not, the War Party victory will mirror the anti-Rouhani hardline victory in Tehran – with devastating consequences.

    End Quote

    Anyone who has followed Obama up to this point – right from his anti-Iran naval blockade suggestion back during his 2008 election campaign – can answer that question.

    That isn’t even the question because he doesn’t have ANY “balls” and never did. Pepe should remember that he has characterized Obama as a “paperboy”. Paperboys don’t have balls…Obama is drunk with the power to murder Americans anywhere, but only because he takes orders from a bunch of Jewish white people. And he will never forget that, nor does he have the “balls” to rebel against it. He may flex his chains on occasion, mostly rhetorically in some meaningless speech, but his actions will remain firmly under the control of his masters.

    I can’t wait for the latest round of hallucinations about “detente” to come apart. Shouldn’t take long.

  327. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Ramzy Baroud takes a more nuanced position…

    Why Obama needs a pen pal in Tehran
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-250913.html

    Notable Quotes

    Former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami (1997-2005) was a reformist, and he too was seen as “different”. In fact, he did try to reach out to the US, but aside from a few symbolic gestures involving both parties, to no avail. The balances of power were extremely skewed in favor of the US, and politicians with sinister ambitions understood well the danger of reciprocal diplomacy with Iran.

    Andrei Arashev of the leading Russian think tank Strategic Culture Foundation is calling for a “strategic alliance” with Iran, a sentiment echoed elsewhere. To achieve that alliance, but also to ease tensions with Washington, the Russian Kommersant reported that Moscow might offer Tehran the Antey-2500, an alternative air defense system with equal efficiency.

    But there is more as “Russia is ready to execute the Pakistan-Iran gas pipeline project, ignoring the US sanctions on Iran,” reported Pakistan’s The New International on September 19, citing a Russian minister’s comments in a meeting with Pakistan’s petroleum minister in Islamabad.

    It really matters little whether Obama is a true pen pal or not, the same way that his oratory skills have long been disregarded as extraneous. The issue here has much to do with the political landscape in the Middle East, the failed attempt at war in Syria and Iran’s own alliances, starting with Russia. Obama’s alleged morally-driven expectations from Iran’s leaders and his supposed need for a trustworthy Iranian pen pal is mere fiction. This strange logic begins and ends there.

    End Quotes

    The problem remains as I have averred numerous times:

    1) The “changing balance of power” is a fiction. The US remains the one world superpower, outspending all the rest of the nations in military armaments.

    2) The people profiting from that spending control the US domestic and foreign policy.

    3) These same people have a lot of connections with Israel.

    4) The next largest component of influence in US politics – the oil companies – have every interest in a new war which will cause an oil price spike which will mean massive windfall profits.

    5) And the next largest component of influence in US politics – the financial community – stands to profit from its investments in the military-industrial complex and the oil companies. They, too, support a state of permanent war.

    6) Those people control who the US President will be and what he will do. No US President in memory has ever contravened these people.

    7) Until the US economy destroys itself – reducing the US to the status of a Third World country – OR the US suffers a significant military defeat – one in which a major portion of its military assets are actually destroyed, not merely withdrawn from the conflict – nothing will change in US intentions or actions.

  328. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Justin Raimondo on…

    The Handshake That Never Happened
    Obama to Iran: Buzz off!
    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/09/24/the-handshake-that-never-happened/

    Quotes

    It’s funny how subjective impressions can be. People often hear their hopes rather than what is actually being said: here’s Phil Weiss, over at the militantly anti-Zionist MondoWeiss web site, who sees in Obama’s speech evidence of a “bold opening to Iran,” all but proclaiming the beginning of a new era in US-Iranian relations. On the other hand, here’s Max Fisher over at the Washington Post with a much more sober – and, I would say, more accurate – assessment.

    The list of rationalizations for US military intervention continues as Obama plays the “terrorist” card, vowing to “dismantle terrorist networks that threaten our people.” Forget all that malarkey about “sovereignty” and multilateralism: “When it’s necessary [to] defend the United States against terrorist attack, we will take direct action.”

    How hard is it to imagine the appearance of a sudden “terrorist” threat in Syria, one that might credibly be accused of planning acts of terrorism on US soil? After destabilizing the country by supporting “moderate” rebels – who just happened to be aligned with Al Qaeda – we now have a full-fledged “terrorist haven” in Syria. Can US troops be far behind?

    Iran is still in America’s crosshairs, as Obama made quite clear:

    “So what does this mean going forward?

    “In the near term, America’s diplomatic efforts will focus on two particular issues: Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons and ….”

    Let’s stop the film right there.

    The whole issue between the US and Iran is whether or not Tehran is in fact pursuing nuclear weapons: yet Obama states that they are indeed doing so as a given.

    Enough already. I’m done with analyzing the maze of lies and half-truths that make up this compendium of rhetorical folly. To add insult to injury, the administration is claiming the Iranians refused to meet with them on the side of the UN confab, but that the offer was made. What they somehow neglect to mention is that so many conditions wee attached to the offer that the Iranians decided to pass it up. Every time these people open their mouths, another falsehood leaps out at us. They couldn’t tell the truth if their lives depended on it: the best they can come up with is the “least untruthful” explanation for their policy of untrammeled aggression in the region – with the threat of more to come.

    End Quotes

    Of course, BiBiJon believes everything Obama says…

  329. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Officials: US, Russia still at odds on Syria resolution; Obama seeks penalties for violations
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/09/24/officials-us-russia-still-at-odds-on-syria-resolution-obama-seeks-penalties-for/

    The US still pushing for UN Charter Chapter 7 language in the Resolution – to provide cover for US military action. This, along with the three previous attempts to get Chapter 7 language into UNSC Resolutions – make a mockery of BiBiJon’s notions of how Obama is trying to avoid war. War was the intent from the very beginning.

  330. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Lebanon calls for ‘safe zones’ to accommodate Syria refugees
    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Lebanon-calls-for-safe-zones-in-Syria-326983

    …in exchange for another $8 million in aid to support the Lebanese Army against Hizballah…

    Once again proving the intentions of the Syria crisis are to get rid of Hizballah and Syria.

  331. Kathleen says:

    James on Chris Matthews repeating inaccurate comments about Iran and helping his career not sure what his intentions are. But clearly they are not to help the American public become more informed about the situation based on facts. If those were his intentions he would stick his neck out a bit and have the Leveretts on instead of Crowley and Eugene Robinson to discuss the situation with Iran. But clearly Matthews does not really know much about the facts. He does not want to see the U.S. attack Iran but is not willing to help educate the public. Pathetic and telling.

    Just heard the tail end of Fresh Air’s Terri Gross (who has a history of repeating inflammatory and inaccurate statements about Iran) interview with Dexter Filkis who has a new one up in the New Yorker about Iran. People are really pushing this Iran wants to have “breakout capability” Whether that is a fact or not my response is who could blame them…With the U.S. and Israel breathing fire down their necks with sanctions and persistent threats.

  332. Richard Steven Hack says:

    45 Top Lies From Obama’s UN Speech
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/25/45-top-lies-from-obamas-un-speech/

    That all?

    Notable Lies

    1. President Obama’s opening lines at the U.N. on Tuesday looked down on people who would think to settle disputes with war. Obama was disingenuously avoiding the fact that earlier this month he sought to drop missiles into a country to “send a message” but was blocked by the U.S. Congress, the U.N., the nations of the world, and popular opposition — after which Obama arrived at diplomacy as a last resort.

    6. “We have limited the use of drones.” Bush drone strikes in Pakistan: 51. Obama drone strikes in Pakistan: 323.

    8. “… and there is a near certainty of no civilian casualties.” There are hundreds of confirmed civilian dead from U.S. drones, something the Obama administration seems inclined to keep as quiet as possible.

    15. “[T]he international community must enforce the ban on chemical weapons.” Except against Israel or the United States.

    19. “I do not believe that military action — by those within Syria, or by external powers — can achieve a lasting peace.” Yet, the U.S. government is shipping weapons into that action.

    21. “[N]or does America have any interest in Syria beyond the well-being of its people, the stability of its neighbors, the elimination of chemical weapons, and ensuring it does not become a safe-haven for terrorists.” That’s funny. Elsewhere, you’ve said that weakening Syria would weaken Iran.

    26. “[W]e reject the development of nuclear weapons that could trigger a nuclear arms race in the region, and undermine the global non-proliferation regime.” By Israel which has done this, or by Iran which all evidence suggests has not?

    29. “Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons.” Iran’s what?

    31. “[A]n Iranian government that has … threatened our ally Israel with destruction.” It hasn’t. And piling up the lies about Iran will make Iran less eager to talk. Just watch.

    36. “Israel’s security as a Jewish and democratic state.” Both, huh?

    45. [S]overeignty cannot be a shield for tyrants to commit wanton murder.” Says a man who reads through a list of potential murder victims on Tuesdays and ticks off the ones he wants murdered.

    End Quotes

    This is the guy BiBiJon believes with all his heart wants to do the right thing…

  333. kooshy says:

    Richard Steven Hack says:

    September 25, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    “The Handshake That Never Happened”
    Obama to Iran: Buzz off!

    Rich
    With regard to handshake that never happened, Iranians are more clever to give the American anything for free even if it’s a fake photo up proof for a foreign policy achievement that hasn’t happened.
    I think very much it was the other way around, and in this case it was handled by Mr. Zarif very cleverly. as it was explained my Mr. Zarif on Iranian TV he said “we didn’t come to NY for Photo up and Symbolism
    We came to get work done” Iran didn’t bite the bate, for no substantive proven promise Iran didn’t feel to give Mr. Obama at the time when he is ever more isolated and need to show a foreign policy achievement a symbolic free photo up opportunity. As Usual like Mr. Zarif said no more free lunch for the Americans, in this case they handled very correctly and the reason was clever “We were not given enough notice for proper preparations” meaning we will not going to give you a free photo up without getting something in return. Even if here this is being spin as Mr. Rouhani doesn’t have enough authority to do what he wants it’s not bad, actually is good of course he doesn’t have enough authority to do with 80 million foreign relations what he wants there are checks and balances he has to fallow.

  334. BiBiJon says:

    Kathleen says:
    September 26, 2013 at 12:11 am

    Re Dexter Filkins’ piece in the New Yorker, don’t miss Richard Silverstein’s take: “shockingly loose, filled with unsourced assumptions parading as fact, anonymous sourcing or, when sources were mentioned at all, invariably they took on a decidedly neocon flavor, including American Enterprise Institute analysts and former-CIA Islamophobe, Reuel Marc Gerecht.

    http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/09/24/bibi-lied-about-burgas-attack/

  335. Neo says:

    fyi says: September 25, 2013 at 10:40 am

    fyi,

    I agree that adjustment to American-led sanctions will take some years yet, and India’s currency collapse was timely for Iran in terms of serving the Indians some of their own medicine. They certainly deserve it (India has been on the wrong track with Iran for a decade or longer).

    Your suggestion that long-term oil contracts should not be signed makes sense. Iran would benefit from greater flexibility. On the other hand, since other countries are not adhering to their agreements with Iran, I guess any contract – short or long – could be treated the same way by Iran in any case.

    Sad that trust is such a rare commodity in international affairs… It doesn’t have to be this way at all. Even in games, one makes moral choices that affect strategy. Without them, games have no rules or ultimate goals. How can international affairs be managed so lawlessly?

    But then again, isn’t this what Iran is now trying to fix? The fate of both the chemical and nuclear weapons treaties are in Iran’s hands now, and both should re-establish Iran’s strong role in promoting the rule of law in international affairs.

    No wonder that crazy bomb cartoonist Netanyahu is pulling his hair out. what’s left of it anyhow.

  336. Neo says:

    Richard Steven Hack says: September 26, 2013 at 12:39 am

    Richard,

    Nicely put!

    “Hypocrite of the Century” is Obama’s well-earned title:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMucHfUMyg

  337. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 25, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    After any Israeli or US attack on Iran, Iran can withdraw from the treaty.

  338. fyi says:

    Neo says:

    September 26, 2013 at 8:44 am

    The fate of CWBT and NPT was never in Iran’s hands.

    It was in the hands of the Superpowers and their minions which went about destroying them.

  339. Neo says:

    James Canning says: September 25, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    James,

    Seriously now, Dempsey or whoever, you know when a western politician or official is lying when their lips move.

    They only act according to imperatives. USA and its allies need to make a deal with Iran, and this is the only reason that things are looking up. They’ve been itching to for some time now, as the imperatives (i.e. Iran’s obvious and natural leadership role in the Middle East and the wider world) have been there for the longest time but their hubris and lack of intelligence was stopping them.

    Now that American and Israeli follies have almost destroyed the region, they are knocking on Iran’s door to make a deal.

    By the way, Iran’s total oil revenue has been well below $100 billion a year, so it is not possible for Iran to have lost as much as you claim.

  340. Neo says:

    fyi says: September 26, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Just like other international treaties, those who design such treaties do for their own ends. Usually, it is done to make sure others stay behind when it comes to the development of WMDs already in the hands of some.

    What they don’t realise is that such actions tend to set off reactions and consequences that will ultimately undermine their own possession of WMDs. This is where Iran comes in.

  341. fyi says:

    Neo says:

    September 26, 2013 at 9:53 am

    They act on basis of the belief that they are so powerful that they can be insulated against the consequences of their own actions.

    Iran has to play the NPT game until she can safely withdraw from it.

    In the meantime, she can continue on her nuclear and rocket developments, in the full knowledge that the Peace of Yalta and its political and economic foundations have dissolved.

    Iran’s security is in her own hands and no one else.

  342. fyi says:

    All:

    A sensible suggestion which has passed its shelf-life by 20 years.

    http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/time-us-middle-east-u-turn-9136

  343. Fiorangela says:

    A headline posted at Mondoweiss today declares:

    Netanyahu says Rouhani denies the Holocaust. But he doesn’t

    The authors of the article argue that Netanyahu is wrong because Rouhani does NOT deny the holocaust.

    In my opinion, that critique misses the point entirely.

    Consider these substitutions:

    1. Netanyahu Cardinal Bellarmine says Rouhani Galileo denies the Holocaust centrality of the earth. But he doesn’t

    or

    2. Netanyahu Emperor Constantine says Rouhani Arians deny the holocaust divinity of Christ. But they don’t

    or

    3. Netanyahu Jonathan Winthrop says Rouhani Roger Williams denies the Holocaust right of the state to enforce the teachings of the Anglican church. But he doesn’t

  344. Karl.. says:

    fyi

    Not surprising – UK, France, US, Israel goal is regime change.
    Why would west stop now when Hamas is weakened, Hezbollah is weakened, Assad is weakend?

  345. James Canning says:

    “A limited and workable deal that contains Iran’s nuclear capability could be the first step in a grand bargain at a later date.”
    — Financial Times leader today

  346. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 9:28 am

    I hope such a opportunity would present itself BEFORE Iran is attacked. Since when US attacks Iran, it would go in heavy. I really doubt, Iran would survive after US bombing in order to build nukes then. They dropped 7 million tonnes of bombs on Vietnam and I think they would drop even more on Iran given their technological sophistication since that war (by comparison allied forces only used 1.7 million tonnes of bombs during world war I and world war II; including the nuclear weapons they dropped on Japan one equal to 15000 tonnes and other equal to 21000 tonnes of bombs).

  347. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Netanyahu and most of the Israel lobby in US want regime change. This is not Britain’s position. Or that of the US. Or Germany, or France.

  348. James Canning says:

    John Kerry, before becoming Hillary Clinton’s successor at State, said it was “ridiculous” to expect Iran to make a deal with P5+1 that did not include right to enrich uranium. FT reminded its readders of this fact, in report by Geoff Dyer today.

  349. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Great piece by Peter Oborne that you just linked (Daily Telegraph). Quote: “Negotiations with Iran, or sorting out Syria, means ENDING THE SIMPLE-MINDED AMERICAN CONCEIT that the world can be divided into good guys and bad guys.”

    Important message indeed, for William Hague.

  350. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Bravo. Shameless lying by Netanyahu. That Rouhani “denies the Holocaust”. But we know Netanyahu has his very rich American pals who help him deceive the American public. Year in and year out.

  351. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    FT report today on Rouhani at the UN quoted him: “Whatever criminality [the Nazis] committed against the Jews, we condemn.”

    Will The New York Times inform its readers that Netanyahu is a dangerous liar?

  352. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes it is and it shouldnt take a non-brittish to admit that.

  353. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Your policy recommendation would lead to a blockade of Iranian oil exports by sea. If Iran then attacked, end result likely would be no nuclear programme whatever.

  354. James Canning says:

    Kathleen,

    Yes, one cannot be certain as to what motivates Chris Matthews, but an assumption that he is aware of benefits to his career from acting as he does, seems safe.

    I would like to see him expose Netanyahu as a liar, on the claim by N that Rouhani “denies the Holocuast”.

  355. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    I think Iran and the US should follow the advice offered by the Financial Times today. Go for partial deal.

    I have seen nothing that suggests any of the E3+3 countries would accept Iranian plutonium programme. Have you?

  356. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    September 26, 2013 at 1:39 pm
    Jesus James,you could be obamas script writer,the 2 sides havent even agreed a deal on enrichment and here you are saying no “plutonium program”,which is funny because iran doesnt have a “plutonium program” it has a heavy water reactor program and the first of those is still being constructed,but none the less I`d imagine any day now that what passes for the wests msm will probably have a headline about irans non-existent “plutonium program”.Its not up to the west to accept or not accept irans heavy water reactor program,the best they can hope for is that it will be put under safegaurds,they got used to iranian enrichment so they`ll get used to heavy water reactors too

  357. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    I welcome any comment you have seen indicating the E3+3 will accept Arak. I personally think you have a good point. But even FYI says Arak is a plutonium programme, if I remember correctly.

  358. Smith says:

    The recent Gallup poll just released shows that 83% of Americans see Iran as enemy/unfriendly: http://www.gallup.com/poll/164639/americans-overwhelmingly-iran-enemy-unfriendly.aspx

    As can be seen Iran can not trust the “good” of Americans to stop the coming war of destruction on Iran by US.

  359. Smith says:

    The game already is starting as I thought.

    Mr. Obama, talk nukes with Iran – but don’t forget human rights: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/mr-obama-talk-nukes-with-iranbut-dont-forget-human-rights/article14513358/

    Even if Iran gives up every thing nuclear and its oil and its gas, still these guys will not leave Iran alone. They will come back with human rights, gay rights, lesbian rights and the right of 3 year old kindergarten kids to sex education.

    This thing has no end, what so ever. Did you know they even slaughter cows and sheep in Iran? Their rights will eventually will be discussed as well and Iran will be put under sanctions for the rights of cows.

    Let me assure you that, until Iran does not give up Islam, and does not cut off its balls and offer all Iranians women and girls for rape to white man and his house negroes, nothing will improve.

    The only way is for Iran to have nuke tipped ICBMs’ pointed at England. That is the only way to freedom. The only way.

  360. Dan Cooper says:

    Rohani:

    Israel must immediately join Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty.

    In every news conference and in every PR campaign, Iran must highlight Israel’s illegal nuclear arsenals.

  361. Karl.. says:

    James

    I havent seen any report that Iran accept the plutonium and uranium programme of US and UK, have you?

  362. Karl.. says:

    Dan Cooper

    Yes indeed both Syria and Iran have failed on this lately imo.

  363. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    Excellent post.
    Why would Iran care about a nuclear deal when they will be even MORE threatened if even such a deal would be agreed upon?

  364. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Thank you. This is the whole point. The difference between Iran and West is not nuclear. It is ideological. And West can not allow Iran to survive with its current set of ideology. Those who think Iran should remain disarmed without nuclear weapons are saying what Ghaddafi had told Iran.

    After giving up its nuclear program Ghaddafi ridiculed Iran and warned Iranians of humiliation if Iran does not follow Libya and accept white man as god on earth: http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/international/06-Aug-2008/Gaddafi-warns-Iran-of-military-humiliation

    He was wrong. He was raped. Brutally. North Korea made fun of him upon his rape, issuing a statement basically saying that any one who tries to appease the white man and give up its nuclear program will end up like him.

  365. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: September 26, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Will FT or Economist or Ann Curry demand that Netanyahu condemn the criminal behavior of Winston Churchill in starving 800,000 German civilians, 20 million Iranian civilians, firebombing 600,000 German civilians and 100,000 Japanese civilians?

  366. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 26, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    The only sensible advice was for Mr. Hague to resign.

  367. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 26, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Arak reactor will produce plutonium as its natural uranium fuel is used up.

    Iran does not have any reprocessing plants nor intends to do so – this has been stated numerous times.

    The expressed concern for that reactor has to do with keeping Iran from developing technical and industrial expertise in the nuclear sciences and technologies and nothing else.

    “Teach them to process their excrement, said EU3.”

    A zero output heavy water reactor can be built and deployed in a garage with no way of tracing it and its plutonium re-processed.

    This is another one of those efforts to keep Iran and Iranians backward, illiterate, incapble, and incompetent.

    Will not happen; if Axis Powers cannot accept that, they best go to war now and try to destroy that reactor complext and with it NPT.

  368. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 26, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Right, he was assured to regime security but Axis Powers pounced on his words to initiate his destruction – and he was literally raped, quite clear from the videoes of his death.

  369. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    September 26, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Precisely, this is a religious was with the semi-religion of Shoah dominating the discourse among the Axis Powers.

    That semi-religion is now at war with Militant Monotheism of Islam, and like other idols, it will crash and burn.

  370. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Very nice article. Though as you pointed out, already expired.

  371. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    “Teach them to process their excrement, said EU3.

    A zero output heavy water reactor can be built and deployed in a garage with no way of tracing it and its plutonium re-processed.”

    It does not even need heavy water. A plutonium producing reactor can easily be constructed using graphite as moderator. In fact the technology for that is over 70 years old now and the fist such reactor which helped US to produce plutonium for its nuclear attack on Japan was built in the university of Chicago football stadium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Pile-1

  372. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    His sons were raped too. I hear horror stories from inside Libya and it is not good. There is almost a black out about the inside situation in Libya. The conditions are terrible with war lords controlling thousands of fiefdoms inside Libya. It will eventually implode. Already it has become a wahabi terror base for north Africa.

    May God spare Iran from this fate as yet Iran does not have nuclear weapons for deterrence. Being sandwiched between Afghanistan/Pakistan and Iraq/Turkey, wahabis will start a carnage in Iran that will never end. It will be a hunt of Shias right and left. The paradise hunting ground for wahabi terrorists. That is if US could defeat Iran and insert Alqaeda into Iran as it has done with Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Kenya, Tunisia, etc etc etc etc

  373. Fiorangela says:

    some months ago Jane Eisner urged a J-Street conference to celebrate the ascent of American Jews to the “elite” in the United States. “What’s more,” she insisted, “they love us, they really do. Polls say so.” conference dot jstreet dot org / 2012videos

    The comments to the item below demonstrate how that ‘poll result’ is reciprocated.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/one-of-the-worst-statements-by-an-american-president-in-history-israeli-cabinet-blasts-obamas-un-speech/

  374. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    How interesting (in piece you just linked): Israeli politicians are “outraged” that Obama said Israel’s own security depends upon creation of independent Palestine.

    The obvious truth is an “outrage”.

  375. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    The US is not actually trying to put al-Qaeda into power in numerous countries.

    Al-Qaeda is not much of a factor in Afghanistan.

    True, the Obama administration may make policy choices that put al-Qaeda into power in Syria. Or some other Islamic extremist group (or groups).

  376. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    September 26, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Oh, they do, of course they love them. Not only that, they love to be ruled by them. There is no question about that. In an authoritarian theocracy such as United States, The Special People should be held higher than the rest. This is a natural consequence of the American belief system. Statistics do not lie: Americans’ Sympathies for Israel Match All-Time High: http://www.gallup.com/poll/161387/americans-sympathies-israel-match-time-high.aspx

  377. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Is it reasonable to blame the carnage of the Second World War on Winston Churchill?

  378. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You continue to equate Israel and the Israel lobby with “the US”. Not the same thing. Close, it does sometime appear. But not the same thing.

    I favour an adjustment of position by William Hague. I hope Peter Oborne’s piece that you linked, is not missed by those posting on this site.

  379. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Given that Germany tried to starve Britain into submission, during the First World War, I think it odd you condemn the British for starving the Germans during the same war.

  380. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    You actually think more sanctions will make Iran stronger?

  381. Smith says:

    Iran calls IAEA and its puppet head Amano (is a sockpuppet operating with American finger up his rear end) unprofessional, unfair, illegal and politicized, forger-er, liar: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/26/us-iran-nuclear-iaea-idUSBRE98P0XN20130926

  382. Smith says:

    Meanwhile in North Korea; Scientists mastering art of making nuclear arms according to a newly released study: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/09/24/asia-pacific/north-korea-learning-to-make-crucial-nuclear-parts-experts-say/#.UkSw0NL1rbg

  383. James Canning says:

    UNSC resolution on Syrian CW has been agreed by P5. No call for military intervention is in it.

  384. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    The Russians say the plutonium plant reopened by North Korea recently is obsolete and very dangerous.

  385. Smith says:

    When Rouhani Met Ollie North (and begged in desperation for American weapons): http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/09/26/when_rouhani_met_ollie_north_iran

  386. Smith says:

    North Korea is starting up its British design nuclear reactor aptly named “Pressurised Pile Producing Power and Plutonium” or PIPPA at Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center. Basically North Koreans are using the same reactor technology that British used to produce electricity and plutonium for UK’s nuclear weapon program

  387. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    September 26, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    body counts are so very inelegant, don’t you agree, Mr. Canning, so I won’t ask that you post the number of British citizens who starved to death as a result of war activities 1914-1919.

    It bears mentioning, wot, that, according to Niall Ferguson in “The Pity of War: Explaining World War One,” “first sea lord John Fisher and first lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill . . .sent the British fleet to blockade Germany before the war even began.”

    Fisher’s and Churchill’s actions were heedless of the fact that “principles of international law, as enunciated in the Treaty of London in 1909…specified which goods were contraband and thus liable to seizure and which were entitled to free passage on the high seas. . . . Lord Salisbury, one of England’s most prominent statesmen, [admitted] that food for the civilian population was never contraband–a principle that the English were callously ignoring in their blockade of Germany.” (“The Illusion of Victory, Americans in World War I,” Thomas Fleming).

    An estimated 650,000 German civilians died of starvation between the time of Churchill’s pre-war imposition of a blockade of “food for the civilian population,” and German armistice in November 1918.

    As he noted with delight in a speech before Parliament in March 1919, as a result of the continuation of the blockade on Germany AFTER the war, “Germans are starving to death.”

    According to C. Paul Vincent in “The Politics of Hunger: The Allied Blockade of Germany 1915 – 1919,” another 35,000 to 50,000 German civilians died in that period between Armistice and Germany’s forced signature to the Versailles Treaty. Vincent also described the after-effects of malnourishment on German children who had survived the starvation: Doctors reported that the fear of starvation was so strong in these youngsters that instead of eating the food they were served in Germany’s many post-war orphanages, they hid it under their straw mattresses: “a misguided animal instinct made the dread of hunger worse than the actual pangs.” (p. 104)

    You must be very proud of your Winnie, Mr. Canning.

    According to British National Archives, Britain did not experience food shortages until mid-1916, AFTER Germany retaliated against the illegal blockade with stepped-up U-boat attacks. Nevertheless, the British people had begun hoarding food even before the war began, and panic-buying became a more severe problem than any threat that any delicate Englishman would be forced to forgo his portion of chopped lamb guts stuffed in a pig’s intestines.

  388. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: September 26, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    “Is it reasonable to blame the carnage of the Second World War on Winston Churchill?”

    Y Y EEEEEEEEEE SSSS
    Y Y E SS SS
    Y Y E SS
    Y Y E S
    Y EEEE S
    Y E SS
    Y E SS
    Y E SS
    Y E S SS
    Y EEEEEEEEEEE SS SS

  389. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 26, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    It is not just Hubris on part of the Axis Powers; for some reason they seem to really have gone out of their way to despise Iran and Iranian people.

  390. kooshy says:

    The receding imperialist power lost again, no chapter 7 no threat resolution and that is the new spin for a victory, don’t see any chance of war for foreseeable future

    “UNITED NATIONS — Russia agreed Thursday to back a United Nations Security Council resolution that demands Syria relinquish its chemical weapons, but stops short of threatening President Bashar Assad with military force if he doesn’t comply. The Obama administration hailed it as a “breakthrough” despite its failure after nearly two weeks to persuade Russia, Assad’s strongest international backer, to support a resolution that would invoke Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter and could have authorized the use of force or other action if Syria didn’t disarm.”

    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-russia-syria-united-nations-security-council-20130926,0,7265950.story?track=rss

  391. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    September 26, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    His problem is, in my opinion, that he is misreading the strategic situation.

    Or else those with whom he discuss the situation pertaining to the confrontation of the Axis Powers with Shia Crescent do not grasp what is going on either.

  392. Fiorangela says:

    NIAC is reveling in the fact that since Rouhani’s election Iran has released 10 political prisoners.

    Maybe the NAACP can seek Rouhani’s intervention to release about 100,000 of the Black men who are held in American for-profit jails on jumped-up drug charges — a ‘confidence building’ measure from Obama.

  393. fyi says:

    All:

    This is how use will wage war against Iran:


    Halting all oil exports critical to Iran. EIA reports that,

    Destroy Kharg Island, as well as installations on Kish Island, Abadan, Bandar Mahshar, and Neka (which helps facilitate imports from the Caspian region).

    Refineries and gas distribution critical to economy. Are highly vulnerable.

    Natural gas accounts for 54 percent of Iran’s total domestic energy consumption.

    Key aspects of transportation and power grid are highly vulnerable. Today’s precision strike assets allow to know out key, repairable links or create long term incapacity. They have become “weapons of mass effectiveness.”

    destroy power plants

    Limited and vulnerable air defenses with only one modern and very short-range air and cruise missile defense system. Will remain vulnerable to stealth, cruise missiles, and corridor suppression of enemy air defenses unless can get fully modern mix of radars, C4I/BM assets, and S-300/400 equivalent.

    Prevent imports of food and product through the Persian Gulf and Sea of Oman.

    Rail system vulnerable. Can use smart mines on all ports.

    Naval embargo presents issues in maritime law, but can halt all Iranian traffic, “inspect” all incoming shipping.

    “No fly zone” would affect operations, especially if include helicopters. Warning could affect civil aviation. 9/26

    She would, however, gather much of her air assets and naval vessels in the Sea of Oman for weeks and months.

  394. fyi says:

    All:

    Off-Topic – Morals Police in Tehran:

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/09/iran-police-morals-rise-confrontations.html

    Now, Invitation to Good and Negation of Evil is the personal obligation of every Muslim.

    However, in front of Tehran University, there all sorts of advertising banners promoting this or that business which offer to write one’s university theses on any subject.

    Nary a peep out of any one against these businesses that Promote the Lie and Negate the Truth.

    But God forbid that a girl shows a bit of her hair – it is the end of Islam.

    Specially in Iran, we like to live our lies to the fullest.

  395. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    So sad. All these scientific and technological progress could not teach them an iota of humility and compassion.

  396. Smith says:

    Absolutely tragic. But there is no comparison. US has the world’s largest prison population both in total numbers and in terms of per capita. Iran has one of the lowest in the world and if it were not for three things, Iran would have had the lowest prison population in the world: 1) Gold digging wives (literally gold diggers) since as per Iran’s law a man who does not cough up the gold goes to prison till he coughs it up 2) Iran’s ancient bankruptcy/financial laws which imprison people for a bounced chech and 3) CIA/MI5 run drug cartels in Afghanistan who pump the history’s largest stashes of drugs into Iran every year

  397. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    Well, to tell the truth, I have seen these kind of businesses selling theses in western countries too. It is just another sign that the Islamic revolution is more and more becoming western without itself knowing. Today Iranian female to male university ratio has reached that of Iceland. Akhonds have been extremely successful in westernizing Iranian society in a way that no king and taghoot could have even dreamed of in his wildest wet dreams. They won the revolution but they lost the cultural and religious persuasion. Choomaq can never win heart and conquer youths. No matter how thick it is made and how hard it is tailored.

    There is a saying of Prophet (PBUH) that where marriage becomes inexpensive, prostitution becomes expensive and where marriage becomes expensive, prostitution becomes inexpensive. Just look at Iran. The sons and daughters of some Ayatollahs along with some rich basijis implanted the culture of expensive marriages in Iran.

    I remember a marriage ceremony of daughter of a certain akhond in which all food had been served in plates which had a gold coin underneath the food as a surprise gift for over a thousand guests. These morality poos poos, has just become irrelevant in Iran. It is just a relic from the revolution. The reality in Iran today is that of great prostitution, pre-marital sex and large scale group orgies and wife swaps: http://www.salon.com/2013/07/28/sexy_spring_how_group_sex_will_liberate_iran_china/

  398. Smith says:

    North Korea expanding its uranium enrichment left and right by leaps and bounds: http://pollack.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/4026/north-korean-flow-forming-lathes

    Please note that sanctions on Iran are much tougher than those on North Korea. And there is no more talk of any more meaningful sanctions on North Korea as they expand their nuclear work. That is the benefit of being out of NPT and having a nuclear arsenal. Staying in NPT only earns humiliation and slavery.

  399. Smith says:

    And in China, they are building ever bigger uranium enrichment plants up and down the country: http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/6826/chinas-new-centrifuge-plants

  400. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    “• Limited and vulnerable air defenses with only one modern and very short-range air and cruise missile defense system. Will remain vulnerable to stealth, cruise missiles, and corridor suppression of enemy air defenses unless can get fully modern mix of radars, C4I/BM assets, and S-300/400 equivalent.”

    I agree with the rest but not this one.

    There is a misunderstanding that an air defense equivalent to S-400 is impenetrable. That is simply not so. Such a system can just blunt the incoming blow more effectively and soften the impact of destruction for a limited time period, but can never stop it. That is even if a country has dozens and dozens of such systems installed all over the country. For example in standard firing mode, S-400 fires two intercepting missiles at an incoming target of cruise missile/long range precision guided munition. And still it would miss 10 to 20 % of the time as per manufacturer advertisement or even more so in reality.

    Then there is the problem of running out of munitions for S-400. Say, US fires 2000 cruise missiles and 8000 stand off long range precision guided munitions. That is 10,000 targets. It means that a plethora of S-400 battery systems have to fire over 20,000 missiles at these targets so just to stop over half of them from reaching their intended targets. I do not think Iran can ever buy such a large stockpile of munitions for say 8 dozen S-400 batteries, neither Russia will ever sell Iran in those numbers.

    Then consider the fact that the life of these munitions is ten years. It means that Iran must buy 2000 missiles every year or roughly 40 every week to just keep its inventory of its air defense munitions. The cost of S-400 batteries and their spares and running is separate from this. And this is only ground based air defense we are talking about. Iran can never afford to have a conventional based military capable of deterring the white man (the enemy Iran chose for itself). Never ever.

    The only way to deter the white man is to have deliverable nuclear weapon specifically pointed at a declared target of punishment. It is cost effective. And it is militarily effective. Nothing else comes even close. Not even if Iran spends over two trillion dollars buying the most sophisticated conventional military armaments from Russia, Europe and US and even building some pretty sophisticated systems itself, not the toys they are currently producing. Still the nuclear deterrence would be fool proof, while the conventional deterrence would be good only for empty pride.

  401. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 26, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    This is actually true and it is a universal crisis – it was known for more than 60 years that the politically motivated extension/expansion of secondary and post-secondary education will lead to this overproduction of useless degrees.

    We have the French Revolution to thank for this idea that everyone deserves education regardless of merit or aptitude; education has been treated as bread or land or some other such “social good” to be distributed among any and all.

    Ultimately, like female labor outside of the home, this has led to “price” inflation and cheapening of the License, Aggrege, Doctor d’Etat etc.

    I think in US and EU with their financial shenanigans they succeeded in creating a lot of “fake” jobs to absorb all these useless degreed individuals.

    In East Asia, lacking that, if you had good high-school education and yet did not make it through the local concours into a university, you would be on the assembly line (the best situation) for one of these large companies.

    Others were doing menial jobs etc.

    I think now US& EU are experiencing an analogous situation, having no money to support these fake jobs at the salary level that these people expect.

    In East Asia – like the Middle East – they want credentials and not knowledge; in US & EU there are still a few people who care about learning for the sake of learning and not for a meal-ticket.

    I’ve thought that the Western academic model of mass tertiary education at all costs is a big mistake for the past 30+ years.

    Only idiots could think it made sense to give degrees to everyone and his or her dog. In fact, politicians are not stupid: they knew and they know: they have done it to buy the support of all those half-educated youngsters who then go on to vote for them.

    It is bribery: it is like buying votes with degrees. Only, now the system is broke and the non-jobs that used to be created to absorb all those useless graduates (while we don’t have enough engineers, technicians, scientists, plumbers, gardeners, etc.) can no longer be mass-produced: hence those graduates are out of work or doing menial jobs.

    You spend a fortune to educate to (pseudo-) degree level people who end up working as store attendants or bank clerks: what those degrees buy is a bitter and disenchanted workforce.

    France has had 40 to 45 years of it: the climate in the country reflects this very fact. The whole nation is full of left-wing frustrated graduates who are unemployed or in menial positions working as civil servants in low-pay jobs and the like — and they feel “The System” has betrayed them. And it has.

    In Iran what you have are 2 phenomena; one cultural and one political. The cultural one is this desire to be credentialed – even to the point of absurdity.

    A certain Dr. Kordan – a Minister under Ahmadinejad – was revealed by the press to have no Doctoral Degree.

    The fellow was teaching at an Iranian University – a state sinecure without a doubt – all the while claiming to have had an Oxford Ph.D.! He used to regal his students with his stories about his student days at Oxford.

    Well, it was revealed that he does not even have a License and his Oxford Ph.D. was from an Iranian “Diploma Factory”. Many many officials in Iran are thus credentialed; living a lie.

    [But no one ever forgets in Official Iran to harrass young women.]

    All lies, all of the time – yet it is the “Islamic” government staffed by pious Muslims – unlike people like me!

    Next, you have these people with a degree who are some sort of managers – they expect to make more money that the fellow who actually does the work – the technician, the scientist, the engineer, etc.

    When a foreigner comes from abroad to carry out some technical fix, they complain bitterly about how that damned Italian or Frenchman is making more money than them – see, they are the boss and deserve more, even though they cannot do the work.

    Or more recently, a fellow was complaining that a technician with a 2-year post high-school degree at the Oil Ministry was making more momey than him with a License in Education! Well, may be because that technician can actually do something useful.

    After the Iranian Revolution, government built all these new colleges and universities all over Iran. Islamic Government thus brought “education” to the masses. They are best characterized them as High-Schools but larger.

    What happened, was a flood of worthless degrees and the state – continuing on the tradition of the Monarchy – became the employer of the first and last resort.

    And these state employees are all the time complaining that they deserver more and better things in life and it is all the fault of the mullahs and the Islamic Government.

    And yet when they emigrate abroad, they realize that their “Professional” status was another subsidy of that same damned Islamic government.

    In 1950s, in US, there was an expansion of higher education. The Americans took even Normal Colleges and turned them, over-night as it were, into universities, on the par of Oxbridge!

    But the reality is that there are a few – about 50 – universities and colleges worth attending.

    In 1948, 14% of US high-school graduates attended college.

    That number has not changed much if you ignore all these pseudo-universities.

    Likewise, in Iran, there are at most 10 decent schools, the rest are there to meet the emotional needs of a credentials-seeking population.

    Through the creation of many (second-rate or third-rate) universities delivering meaningless degrees to mediocre students, what is really created is a two-tier system.

    You have the ‘real’ universities (i.e. the original ones) and all the 2nd-class ones (i.e. the new ones): the good jobs still go to those who went to the good / real universities.

    The others get bad jobs. The only difference is that, even to get a bad job, now, you need a (meaningless) degree. In a way, it is the issue of inflation: the inflation in university places and degrees devalues them across the board.

    In UK, the Russel Group of universities is the elite; all the others are deemed second-rate. Also, a category of technical colleges called Polytechnics were turned overnight into fully fledged universities, i.e. what they did is what Americans did: they changed the name tag. But everyone knows and remembers which university is a ‘real’ university and which one is a jumped-up polytechnic… Some ex-polytechnics have, in fairness, become fairly good in certain specialist fields.

    Like you said, in its own way, the Islamic Republic of Iran has jumped on the bandwagon and followed in the footsteps of England, France etc.

    I find it rich that people blame the Iranian Government for giving them jobs they would not otherwise have: but this kind of frustrated and unfair response is frequent in such circumstances.

    In France, most students actually believe that their degree means something. If you tell them that, really, it is most likely to turn out to be meaningless, they don’t believe you. They think you are being offensive, or reactionary, because you are a narrow-minded snob.

    When they start looking for work and realize no one is interested in their meaningless degree, they simply can’t understand what is going on and blame the system, i.e. the very system that has given them those degrees, but they still don’t realize it was all a con.

    They cannot accept it. So they blame society, or capitalism, or whatever.

    Greece, Spain and Italy are the same – even worse.

  402. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    September 26, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    Yes, and in fact Dr. Cordesman has 2 implicit recommendations for Iran:

    1- Increase and imporve the range and accuracy of her missiles
    2- Develop nuclear weapons

  403. Ataune says:

    @fyi

    What is this lengthy monologue you are having with your pseudo-impersonnation Smith !!!!???

  404. kooshy says:

    Ataune says:
    September 27, 2013 at 12:07 am

    Now that you asked, there is a Persian proverb even for their case here is how it goes

    دیوانه چو دیوانه ببیند خوشش آید

    “For an insane is joyous when encounters one alike”

  405. Castellio says:

    Ataune and Kooshy.

    Clearly you don’t understand. If we can get the woman out of the workforce and back into the kitchen, the ignorant peasants out of the universities and back onto the farm, and everyone believing in the contemporary appearances of the Virgin Mary, and lots and lots of nuclear arms, then 1) we won’t be raped by the white man and 2) we won’t be fallen.

    No?

  406. Neo says:

    fyi says: September 26, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Not quite. Iran has to play the NPT game so she can help wipe out evil nuclear weapons.

    It is both a moral and a strategic necessity to do so.

  407. Karl.. says:

    While I hole no optimism for peace in the near period its still good that some western leaderns finally have begun to atleast talk(ed) to Iran – Iran have talked to many leaders during his NY visit, what should be open is a communcation line between US/Iran as in those soviet/US times.

  408. Fiorangela says:

    Castellio says: September 27, 2013 at 1:34 am

    I heard a pony whinnie is fyi pile of _____ .

    fyi does have a point — we are still operating on a system that became popularized in 1789. Maybe some radical new system needs to emerge.

    The dichotomy between “home” and “workforce” is artificial; it came to be understood as universal and absolute only with the industrial revolution; we can now reflect on that, and recognize that the model is breaking down.

    At the same time, families are a mess. Children are raised on the industrial model, and that ‘factory’ too is breaking down.

    So maybe a radical change to the system is called for, not just (sarcastic) tinkering with the elements of the old system.

    Maybe education is wasted on the young/child bearing contingent; maybe our age divisions are out of kilter with the best outcome for families and cultures — grandparents have more time and patience to care for children; —

    what radical ways can we think of to build a new foundation or dramatically improve the foundation that was built in 1789, per fyi.

    US foreign interventionists constantly argue that educating young girls changes everything. Really? When I was a new mother I hung my diploma over my baby’s crib. Nothing changed; it didn’t make me a better mother.

  409. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    September 27, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Thank you for your kind statements of support.

    In fact, I saw many male and female students whose college degrees were a total and expensive waste – when you get a “C” in your major courses, clearly you have learnt nothing. They then moved to New York or Los Angeles to work as low level clerks in this or that establishment with very little propspect of improving their situation in life.

    I am not opposed to higher education, rather I think that most people would not benefit from it. I think Baccalaureate ought to be considered the terminal degree for most people (and then there are those for whom even that is a bridge too far).

    I agree with the proposition that educating young women makes profound changes in the society – but only in such places that for centuries women have been illiterate. I do not think that sending most of the world’s young women – in their most fertile period – to receive a post-secondary education of dubious value is a very useful exercise.

    In Iran, a case that IO am very familiar with, it has largely led to the educational achievement of the young woman to become part of her dowary in the marriage market.

    The American system features a one-year or two-year slot between secondary school and real university proper (in a real university) in order to bring students up to the required level for university. In the UK and Europe, this does not exist as such largely because they do not have the money to subsidize all these marginal students.

    In the UK, once an English student has done his or her A Levels, he applies for a place at university and can start in the autumn of the same year: he or she is supposed to be up to scratch. (But more and more, some English students are not, precisely…)

    In France, you can have so-called ‘preparatory classes’ prior to starting studies in a leading business or engineering school (1 to 3 years after Baccalaureate and before you start the school), but that is different: it is for highly competitive Grandes Ecoles whose level (educationally, etc) is higher than that of standard universities.

    To go back to the point, I do think there is a profound crisis in education, literacy and culture in the West. The dumbing-down of TV programmes, the press etc. is just a symptom. Ultimately, young people no longer read books, magazines or newspapers. They only read snippets on their wireless devices: they don’t actually read books as you and I did at their age. You can see it on the train into work in the morning: anyone under the age of 30 or 35 will keep busy playing with his or her mobile phone (reading emails, playing video games, checking the news on line…). They do not read newspapers, let alone books. There are exceptions, but not many.

    What is the (western) world going to look like and feel like, in 20 or 30 years’ time, when you have a majority of people (including educated or supposedly educated people and decision makers) who have never actually read a book? I dread to think. The level of ignorance is going to be staggering, and also the inability to think critically for oneself, in a logical and structured way. It is a generation full of sound bites and clichés; there is no personal and critical ability to reflect upon issues.

  410. Persian Gulf says:

    masoud

    A question like that is equivalent to a sudden death. Asking a question in that way is obviously wrong. He needed to be very careful of the message too. A situation like that is tough even for a native English speaker.

    For one thing he finished his studies years ago.and doesn’t use the language in daily conversation like you and I.he was probably not fluent in English back then either. So, I don’t think the criticism is fair. Your distaste of him is understandable, but expanding that obsession to anything he does is not right imho. However his team has to be criticised for the selection of the translator.

    The translator was lost in the language. He was supposed to facilitate the understanding of his speech for God’s sake.it was as if he has not seen a single text in politics. He could not anticipate the upcoming words and his punctuations were wrong. He screwed up the sentences. It was very hard to understand Rouhani’ UN speech. I think Zarif himself reading the text would have done a far better job. Not sure why they did not use people like Majd for that job either.

  411. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Ataune, kooshy, Castellio,

    Right on.

    smithy-jan,

    I’m praying for you that you get some action at these orgies…

    And, for the record:

    “Dr.” Kordan was brought into the government by none other than Alaa Hazrat Dr. Ali Larijani while at IRIB…with the same fake resume that he criticized when Kordan was no longer his employee.

    In fact Kordan was in charge of all advertising revenues at IRIB and at the instructions of Ali Khan “outsourced” advertising exclusively to companies that then later “contributed” to certain elections campaigns…I’m sure all of it legal (he said sarcastically)!

    And of course Jenabe Kordan ended up having a heart attack…sniff.

  412. BiBiJon says:

    Richard Steven Hack says:

    @September 26, 2013 at 12:39 am “This is the guy BiBiJon believes with all his heart wants to do the right thing…”

    Obama is playing chess and wants to win. War is a a tool, a tactic. No one fit to be a leader of a country would boil down their strategic objectives to be fighting wars.

    @ September 25, 2013 at 11:26 pm “This, along with the three previous attempts to get Chapter 7 language into UNSC Resolutions – make a mockery of BiBiJon’s notions of how Obama is trying to avoid war. War was the intent from the very beginning.”

    As we now know, chapter 7 use of force did not become an automatic part of the resolution. Again, I suspect SoS Kerry knew full well it would get vetoed, pointlessly was sparring with Lavrov to save a little British, KSA, French face.

    @ September 25, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    “Justin Raimondo on…Of course, BiBiJon believes everything Obama says…”

    If a politician’s lips move, neither Richard, nor Justin should pay too much attention, I don’t. I find actions to be noteworthy, e.g. jettisoning Denis Ross and appointing Kerry and Hagel to the cabinet, figures who’d long advocated burying the hatchet with Iran.

    @ September 25, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    “Meanwhile, for BiBiJob and his romantic relationship with Obama…Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens”

    I do not have a romantic relationship with Obama. Vis-a-vis international affairs, I think Obama is playing chess, and he is playing to win. I regard the notion that Obama’s regional/global strategy can be boiled down to ‘by hook or by crook start a war with Iran’ is ridiculous. He can also conceivably win by arriving at some kind of understanding with Iran.

  413. BiBiJon says:

    Letters and a “chat”
    ==================

    June Letter: Can you keep your hardliners at bay?
    Answer: Yes. What about You?
    Reply: Me too.
    Answer: then lets start seeing some positive, hopey changey comments and we’ll make similar noises from our end.

    “Chat” yesterday

    Is the 2003 memo still operative?
    Answer: Yes! I drafted it myself, and would redraft it if you want.

  414. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 26, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    “Not surprising – UK, France, US, Israel goal is regime change.
    Why would west stop now when Hamas is weakened, Hezbollah is weakened, Assad is weakend?”

    Karl, I find this a very interesting take, and diametrically opposite to news I digest.

    Hezbollah has just scored another victory, Qusair. Lebanon is quiet once more.
    Syrian Army has been on a roll, e.g. Homs. And the recent stuff about CW has been turned into a vertual guarantee Assad will remain in power while CW is destroyed, at least for another year, and the Syrian government is a signatory to an international treaty, which confers international legitimacy to that government.

    Where do you smell this weakness?

  415. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    Lebanon is not quiet and Hezbollah is getting more isolated and rejected by not only takfirs but regular sunnis. Anti-shiite views is getting stronger too throughout the mdidle east which will not benefit Iran/Syria/Hezbollah.
    At the same time as Assad is getting weaker so does Hezbollah that is dependent on Assad for arms and support. If Assad falls, Hezbollah will be even more weakened which will be a reality since Assad will leave power sooner or later whetever he wants to or not. CW-deal is a prime example also of how Syria and its allies bowed to, in effect Israel which started the whole Assad-must-destroy-CW-debate.

  416. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 26, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    It is pretty much it. Producing theoretical physicists that can not think and engineers that can not design. Boys who are after drugs and girls that think it is the job of boys to get pregnant. But then it is also the fault of what is being taught to them in schools and universities. In Islamic countries it is even worse since there is no place for criticism, independent evaluation and freedom of thought in Islamic countries education systems.

    As Dr Pervez Hoodhboy writes in his book of state of education in Pakistan’s universities in which “Science Miracle Conferences” are held and the professors of science and engineering discuss Prophet Mohammad’s ascension to heaven through relativistic time dilation, making logarithmic graphs plotting the quantity and quality of divine reward vs. the number of people in prayer congregation or theorize that origin of Jinns are in methane gas. I guess in such situation, one can forgive Mr Kordan who in his classes used to “re-animate” his days at Oxford and talk in detail about his life in England. After all he was not the only one in Iran, there are still plenty out there. And in the world too, for example the German defense minister comes to mind who held a fake PhD.

  417. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 27, 2013 at 12:04 am

    Exactly. Ballistic missiles have very poor accuracy specially in longer ranges. Their other limitation is even more pressing, that being their extremely poor cost effectiveness. The cost of per tonne of explosives delivered by ballistic missiles is so high that not even NATO with all its wealth considers long range ballistic missiles as a viable conventional delivery system. That is why they still keep large air forces since air crafts have excellent cost per delivered tonne of explosives. Ballistic missiles are only good when they are matched with nuclear weapons. Conventionally they are pretty much useless. Saddam used nearly 3000 ballistic missiles against Iranian cities. It did not even dent Iran.

    Did you know that Iran is the only nation in history that has developed and produced missiles with ranges above 1000 km that does not have nuclear weapons? It is amazing. It is only a matter of time. Fatwa will change. That is inevitable. Then of course the “believers” will follow as automatons and defend the new fatwa. Others who are against Iran being nuclear weapon armed and like only white man to hold nukes, will go crazy condemning Shias and Islam and call them liars and curse Iran. But then they are irrelevant. Iran does not need green peaceniks. Iran needs to build nuclear weapon factories and construct 200 nuclear power reactors all over Iran. This is what Iran needs.

  418. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    The non-Arab sunnis are pretty much irrelevant. The Arabs on the other hand pretty much respect powerful authority. When Iran tests its first nuke, it would be equivalent to cutting off the balls of Arab leaders and intellectuals. The Arab masses would ridicule them and curse them while starting to respect Iran. I know them and their psyche very well. They suffer from the worst kind of inferiority complex that you can ever imagine. All it takes for all of these to quite down is an underground nuclear test in the desert near Afghan border and an upper atmospheric nuclear test a top of a ballistic missile over Indian ocean.

  419. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    I only agree that sectarian tensions are palpable in the region. But, when was that no the case? Strangely, it is the cauldron of the Syrian civil war, that a significant portion of Sunnis are being turned off the takfiris; majority of the Syrian army are Sunnis and the army has stayed in tact. In other words, the war of narratives is in fact being won in Syria against the takfiris. Also, the Russian Navy is deployed ostensibly to guarantee Syria’s airspace integrity.

    I think Sectarian tensions are a natural reaction to a strengthening Shi’a crescent, not a weakening one.

    On Syria, you must have read reports that the opposition have been fighting among themselves; the Takfiris/al-Qaida-linked groups have condemned the Syria National Council; basically the wheel is coming off. Can you justify your opinion with something concrete?

    Please spell out what is happening in Lebanon that is weakening Hezbollah? A reference to news articles would be great.

  420. James Canning says:

    “The US and the Europeans have accepted that Iran can continue to enrich uranium as part of a civilian programme.”
    – – Philip Stephens, in the Financial Times today

  421. James Canning says:

    “Hours before the meeting [at UN yesterday], Mr Rouhani called on Israel to [sign the NPT]”. Obama should do the same.

  422. James Canning says:

    “‘The only way forward is for a timeline to be inserted into the [P5+1] negotiations that are short,’ Mr Rouhani was quoted as telling the Washington Post”.
    – – FT report today

  423. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    I see it as a very good thing for the US, that the UNSC resolution on Syrian CW does not provide for an attack (if timeline is not met etc etc). Very good thing for the US.

  424. Fiorangela says:

    fyi,

    In the USA urging a college education is the equivalent of the clamor a few years ago that “everyone should own a home.” The same people benefit in both instances: the people who lend the money for the home loan, college tuition. Education has become commodified and monetized, it is not for itself.

    So many young people in US colleges are working part-time and going to school in the margins. That is no way to introduce oneself to the process and discipline of scholarship.

    On the other hand, a great deal of learning and discovery can take place in the quiet of one’s living room or kitchen table with a good book or three.

    I constantly think about the need for teachers: was it Philip in the epistles who said to the eunuch of the Queen of Ethiopia, “how shall I know if nobody teach me?”

    But finding a teacher is no simple matter. Acquiring a station at the front of a classroom is not the same as being a teacher. I learned that on the Indian subcontinent, a teacher is one who is expected to apprehend what it is every student in his/her charge needs, and then supplying that need. That involves knowing each student equally as much as knowing the subject matter. A Lecture to an auditorium of 300 students may be many things, but it’s not teaching.

  425. Fiorangela says:

    Nima Shirazi has a great post on his website — Open Mic in Tehran

    http://www.wideasleepinamerica.com/2013/09/cnn-open-mic-tehran.html

  426. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You think Germany “goes out of its way to despise Iran and the Iranian people”? Nonsense.

  427. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Germany started the Second World War. British PM was no Winston Churchill at that time.

  428. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Gaddafi knew he would NOT be allowed to build nukes. You have difficulty grasping this fact.

  429. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 27, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    THe issue is not the technical capability of Libya – there was none.

    The issue was that at the first opportunity, Axis Powers destroyed the late Mr. Qaddafi, his government, and his Libya.

    This is the salient lesson not lost on many other states – including Iran and North Korea.

  430. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 27, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Yes.

    There were a number of German companies that helped the late Mr. Hussein in his chemical weapons developments.

    They knew what they were doing….

  431. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    One just have to read lebanese news to see whats going on.
    That some rebels in Syria fight each other isnt going to stop the tide.

  432. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    September 27, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    I think higher liberal arts education is useful largely for a few men; it is useless for most people, specially women.

    I think most people ought to receive practical education – engineering, technically oriented trades, medicine, dentistry, pharmcy, operating lathes, gardening, pipe-fitting, landscaping, construction, etc.

    Nothing is more useless than expensive Liberal Arts education for the masses – they cannot benefit from it – I know that for a fact as I have seen it and felt it and lived it.

    Do you for a moment think that the majority of mankind regardless of religion, sex, race, class, caste, language can comprehend or care about questions such as “What is the meaning of “meaning”?” or the deep structure of grammar and its connection with modes of thought?

    Like this young Jordanian woman asked me: “Why do you guys talk about unreal things?”

    Of course, for her, the real things were closer to her material life; being married, having her own family, having sons to boast to others.

    And, needless to say, the real thing was having a husband with good income that could support her in the style that she was used to or felt entitled to; unlike us poor Liberal Arts student for whom ideas were alive and were not interested in abandoning our duty to our Intellect for her or any other woman.

    So, I think they should go their way, and people like myself and my colleagues and friends the other way.

  433. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Anthony Cordesman claims Iran should fear nuclear atttack by Israel. I think this is a wildly incorrect assessment of the true situation. (Assuming Iran did not launch heavy and highly successful attack on Israel, on first-strike basis- – which I think very unlikely if not impossible.)

  434. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    I was looking forward to something concrete to substantiate your claim. But, Thanks anyway.

  435. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I agree with you that most people are simply not realistic candidates for “liberal arts” education.

  436. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Opportunistic corporations selling munitions, from Germany (or another country), do not mean that the country in which they are located “despises” Iran or the Iranian people.

    German companies sold munitions to France, prior to 1914, knowing they might be used against Germany itself.

  437. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    UK and US did not “attack Libya at first opportunity”. In fact, William Hague was rather strongly opposed to a British attack on Libya, and Obama (and his generals) were not keen to attack Libya.

    Gaddafi’s IDIOTIC RANTING ON TV was primary cause of the western military intervantion. He was too arrogant, or stupid, to shut his mouth. Sadly.

  438. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Western diplomats PLEADED with Gaddafi, to tone things down. They warned him he was in effect demanding western military intervention against him.

  439. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Do you think North Korea actually fears a “Western” attack on NK, even if NK does nothing seriously stupid? I very much doubt it. Culture of fear helps keep incompetent gov’t in power.

  440. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 27, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Says James Canning.

    The way you talk, is as though the Axis Powers, against their will and their better judgements, destroyed Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya and that they were gunning for Iran and Syria and North Korea are just funny notions in the minds of brain-adleled members of the such sub-races as to which I belong.

    One must indeed feel sorry for the Axis Powers who, by forces outside of themelves, have spent better part of a quarter of a century on war path all over the world.

    Axis Powers: The damn animals made me do it…

  441. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    September 27, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Yes, they feared an attack and that is why they moved their division South after the US war against Iraq in 1991.

    They were correct, since Mr. Clinton began his presidency by preparing the ground for war against North Korea.

    Only when it became clear that North Koreans had taken Seoul hostage that Americans relented and sent Mr. Carter to initiate the process which led to the Agreed Framework.

    Nuclear weapons in the hands of North Korea is going to reduce their military expenditures – they have established MAD against both South Korea and Japan.

  442. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    No I dont see any reason to provide anything since you have already decided what to think. Besides 1 or 2 links isnt enough to grasp something anyway thats why I urged you to study lebanese media.

  443. M.Ali says:

    Smith, for all your pretense of being so defensive of Iran’s right, why do you go and post cliched articles? That salon link is the same kind of “sexual revolution” crap that you usually find written about Islamic countries.

    Of course, there are sexual activities. Its not as widespread as the articles make it out to be, but that’s what westerns write about, specially American-Iranians, because westerns eat that up.

    The article is based on just ONE person’s report.

    Whats the point of having tons of nukes, defend Iran against white man’s “rape”, if people like you continue to eat up junk like this, and not defend your country where it really matters?

    Of course there are sex in Islamic countries. Its on the rise in as much as it is easier to be involved in sexual activities when the country is 80 million people, where one lives in such a big anonymous urban city such as Tehran, when technologies like facebook, cell phones, etc, allow people to easier get in touch with each other, and so on. But its not a ground breaking revolution, that somehow makes it a case study just because its SEX in oh my god orientalist Iran!!

    Have you read One Thousand and One Nights? I just read one volume, and half of it is about sex, affairs, orgies, and housewives loving the big black penises of their slaves. Was that also about the muslim’s sexual revolution?

    Iranians love writing about their country for the ‘White Man’ so they get the ‘good work’ from their beautiful masters, and it is people like you, who assist in this.

    Shame on you for talking about the “White Man” and them raping us, and yet, fully encouraging their exotic orientalist narrative .

  444. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning,

    Are you asking who fired the first shot and what political office that shooter held? Or are you asking, Whose ideology and personal psyche drove the machine that eventuated in a world-wide war, twice?

    The answer to the second question is Winston Churchill.

  445. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Ataune, kooshy, Castellio,

    Reading the musings of young IQ 147 I’m reminded as to why God DOESN’T allow certain people to have wealth and power.

    Can you imagine nuclear weapons in the hands of this guy?…he really needs to get laid, preferably with female members of the races and peoples he regularly insults.

    Thank God our leaders are real human beings like Imam (r) and Ayat. Khamenei.

  446. M.Ali says:

    And regarding fyi’s al-monitor article, I wont even bother engaging on fyi with a one-sided discussion, but can I just please beg western journalists to stop using photos where a young woman is walking in front of the old american embassy? I think we have, at least, 20 years of such photos, and it got old and repetitive 19 years ago.

  447. Irshad says:

    Fyi, Fiorengella, BiB:

    Name 10 books (or less) that you would recommend people to read (lets keep Quran and Hadith out of this as they are obviously to be read.) and why?

    Fyi – what did you study at university?

    whats your perception of whats happened and happening over the last few days with Pres Rouani in NY?

    Thank you

  448. Rd. says:

    James Canning says:

    “Gaddafi’s IDIOTIC RANTING ON TV was primary cause of the western military intervantion. He was too arrogant, or stupid, to shut his mouth. Sadly.”

    John McCain often rants on TV, so as Cameron, are you suggesting the rest of the world should obliterate US and UK? AMAZING.

  449. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    I haven’t irrevocably made up my mind about anything. I do currently have an opinion based news I have read, or absence of news.

    Again, if you have anything concrete, Lebanese or otherwise, please do post a link.

    Thanks.

  450. kooshy says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:35 pm
    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Every time there is talk or a possibility for a little favorable air for a possible settlement of issues, our friend here, who hates white man except for giving himself their name goes off balance, and moves on tagging with our own residence Socrates to pull out their usual prophecies of must have (please believe they need to have) nukes, and Iranian girls are being sold to Arabs and(obviously you know since the IRI), rape, in street orgies (this is new), looks like not too many orgies is going on in Haifa these days.

  451. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    No need to repeat what you just said and what I just answered.

    However since you claim otherwhise, feel free to post polls, surveys or other empirical information showing Hezbollah have become stronger as a force politically/strategically/physically (arms).

  452. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Below is an example of what I mean in terms of the “opposition” is disintegrating.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/09/fsa-assad-syrian-opposition-groups-leaders-in-exile.html

    Quote:

    Liwa al-Tawhid, Liwa al-Islam, and Suqour al-Sham—are aligned with the military wing of the National Coalition, the Supreme Military Council, which is supported by the West and is what passes for the leadership of the loose franchise outfit known as the Free Syrian Army (F.S.A.). Now they have publicly thrown in their lot with Jabhat al-Nusra, which also signed on to the statement and is connected to Al Qaeda.

    ———

  453. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    “No need to repeat what you just said and what I just answered.

    However since you claim otherwhise, feel free to post polls, surveys or other empirical information showing Hezbollah have become stronger as a force politically/strategically/physically (arms).”

    Karl, you seem to think I’m trying to prove you wrong. I am not. I just want to know what you base your earlier assertions on.

    If it is just a hunch, well mine is just a hunch too. No worries.

  454. BiBiJon says:

    dring dring pow pow
    ==================

    President Obama said he just had a phone call with Iranian president Hassan Rouhani. He said he is confident the US and Iran can work together

    It is the first top-level contact – acknowledging that Rouhani has a boss back home – between the US and Iran.

    Obama sees “a new opportunity to make progress in Tehran.” He says he communicated to Rouhani “my unique respect for the Iranian people.”

    The president said he also sees potential for “progress on Syria.” Obama refers to the resolution up for consideration by the security council tonight “a binding resolution,” although the resolution does not mention chapter 7 of the UN charter, which explicitly provides for a use of military force.

    From http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/27/syria-crisis-un-p5-agree-draft-resolution-live#block-5245dff8e4b0f2e0c7543749

  455. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    Feel free to provide sources etc for this hunch you have about Hezbollah “have become stronger as a force politically/strategically/physically (arms).”

  456. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    September 27, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Everyone seems to credit Hezbollah for the Syrian army’s victory in Qusair. I have no indication that Hezbollah is getting stronger. But, also, I have read nothing that suggests it is getting weaker because of Qusair gamble. Those takfiris that hate Hezbollah, and for that matter, anything Shi’a, have always haativested them, and have always done everything in their power to undermine the group. I see nothing new here.

    I said earlier that mine is a hunch. But, to spell it out, I think it is ultimately a war of narratives. Nobody with any brains would wish for Lebanon, what has happened sectarian-wise in Lebanon (1970s), Iraq, and now Syria. Therefore, I don’t see Hezbollah’s position weakening. Their support base, whether Lebanese Shi’ite, or Lebanese Christians, see it as a matter of survival not to let takfiri ideology win in Syria, let alone Lebanon itself. Their detractors have always been bad-mouthing Hezbollah, and might have hoped the Syrian civil war, portrayed originally as freedom-loving democracy-craving Sunni opposition, would inflame sectarian issues in Lebanon. But, that was before it became clear that the ‘opposition’ is al-Qaida linked, takfiri financed bunch of cannibals.

    I would love to read your reasoning for an alternative view.

  457. Fiorangela says:

    Recently finished “Crime and Punishment” by Fyodor Dostoevsky and I’m eager to read more great Russian literature. “Crime and Punishment” impressed me as having keen insight into the heart of man; it affirmed my belief, gleaned from Socrates, that “All men seek the good; to do otherwise is absurd.”

    A book by Joseph Campbell titled, “Myths to Live By” contains a number of chapters that have provided insight, especially sections dealing with the importance of unifying myths that serve as “sign-signals” for raising our young. Campbell argues that teaching our children the ‘wrong’ myths — “freakish, querulous sects or desiderated fantasy pasts” is a dreadful way to raise healthy young people; it creates a system leading to psychic breakdown, which is what I think US culture is headed for, and for the reasons Campbell explained. http www dot amazon dot com/Myths-Live-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0140194614/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380311681&sr=1-1&keywords=myths+to+live+by+joseph+campbell#reader_0140194614

    A lecture series by Salim Yaqub of UC Santa Barbara titled, “The United States and the Middle East 1914 to 9/11”, produced by the Teaching Company, offers a very good beginner’s overview/introduction to US involvement in the region.

    I am reading — scouring, actually, Lynne Olson’s “Those Angry Days: Roosevelt, Lindbergh, and America’s Fight Over World War II, 1939-1941” and
    Susan Dunn’s “1940: FDR, Willkie, Lindbergh, Hitler-the Election amid the Storm” more than anything they reveal the foundation of propaganda and lies that the United States has been grounded on since the run-up to World War II (according to these books, but really since Woodrow Wilson/1913).

    The countering narratives to Olson’s work is Christopher O’Sullivan’s “FDR and the End of Empire,” and also, but inadvertently, Maury Klein’s A Call to Arms: Mobilizing America for World War II”.

    Olson’s and Dunn’s theses are that FDR was eager to involve US in European war to aid Britain.

    O’Sullivan’s thesis is that FDR was determined to break apart the British empire.

    I don’t think both can be true.

    Klein’s book approaches the truth of why FDR involved US in WWII: to pull US out of depression and boost US employment. yup.

    I have not read Patrick Buchanan’s “Churchill, Hitler, and The Unnecessary War,” but I just watched — twice — a two-hour debate over the legacy of Winston Churchill; Buchanan participated, and advanced the thesis of his book which is captured in the title. — http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/LegacyofWi

    R. H. S. Stolfi’s “Hitler: Beyond Evil and Tyranny” is not a well-written or well-argued book (Stolfi spends too much time bashing two earlier biographers of Hitler, Ian Kershaw and ___ Bullock, and I also hold the impression that Stolfi’s wife died during the writing of the book — one senses a sadness in the writing). But I think it’s an important book because an ‘establishment’ figure — Stolfi taught history at U.S. Naval Postgraduate Institute at Monterey, California — has cracked the encrustations that forbid an honest assessment of Hitler.

    David Irving’s works on Hitler and on Churchill are very thoroughly researched but the PTB have banished them from honest consideration in important debates.

    There are over a dozen books about the starvation (WWI) and firebombing (WWII) of Germany on my bookshelf, and more on order from Amazon. Chief among these volumes in Jorg Friedrich’s “The Fire: The Bombing of Germany 1940-1945.” To my way of thinking, present-day US foreign policy claims as its foundation US “victory” in World War II. I don’t think Americans and, especially, American policy makers have acknowledged their crimes against humanity in World War II, nor has the “enemy” been studied and understood objectively. When history is distorted, the vision of the present and future that is based on that history cannot help but be distorted: we are living in the house of horrors that is produced by those distortions. That is why the question that is asked of Rouhani is so important — to those who ask it: they want to know if somebody, anybody, is able to see past the deliberately distorted images in the funhouse mirrors, to the truth of the OTHER side’s crimes against humanity.

    I recently acquired a copy of Leonard Stein’s “The Balfour Agreement.” Stein was Chaim Weizmann’s right-hand man for 20 years as Weizmann manipulated British government officials to gain the grant of Palestine for the Jews.

    For the most part, zionist activity has been written out of the histories of World War I and World War II; I call the phenomenon “the unspoken -ism.” I try to put together the history of what zionists, like Weizmann, Herzl, Jabotinsky, Ruppin, Netanyahu were doing and thinking, with the things that were taking place in Germany, Britain, Palestine/Middle East/Ottoman Empire, and US, and see how everyone used the other, and who the winners and losers were.

    “The Transfer Agreement” by Edwin Black is essential reading for anyone challenged to refute the charge of holocaust denierism. Black is a liar, but he inadvertently reveals a great deal about the inner workings of zionism in the run-up to World War II.

    Etan Bloom’s dissertation manuscript, “Arthur Ruppin and the Production of Hebrew Culture in Palestine” provides a great deal of information about the Germanic-based social and political systems that formed the foundation of the Jewish colonization of Palestine from about 1907 to the time Israel declared itself a state. google it; the pdf is online.

  458. Karl.. says:

    Bibijohn

    I dont see how winning 1 (one) state of hundreds in Syria is going to show that Hezbollah havent been weakend. Rather it shows weakness on not only Assad but also that Hezbollah having problem winning the war. Qusair is also quite a small region. Its not like they retook half of Syria.

    Its not only takfirs that dislike Hezbollah but the hariri-related groups too and also the lebanese army itself. As you implied though, this anti-shiite views arent news but it have been more intense since Hezbollah involvement in Syria.

  459. Fiorangela says:

    PS.

    especially re “Myths to Live By” — I also try to learn about Iranian myths and epics. It is my view, perhaps romantic, or wishful thinking, that Iranians are more uniformly grounded in their national myths and epics, therefore, Iranian culture is stronger and more capable of withstanding the assaults of the West. I have a few books that are children’s versions of tales from Shahnameh that I read to try to understand the Iranian interior blueprint.

    United States culture, to the extent such a thing exists that was not transmuted by Hollywood, does NOT have a unifying experience or set of myths. I believe that the Hebrew myths are, to borrow Jefferson’s words, “morally deficient.” Zionists such as Weizmann were convinced that the British perceive the Old Testament as THEIR national epic; indeed, the ideological patterns show up in their shared imperialistic and predatory tendencies. Of course, official US is a chip off the old British/Old Testament block.

    “The Haskalah Movement,” by Jacob Raisin, provides important insight into the ‘awakening’ of Jewry in Russia to the modern world, and the simultaneous quest to take advantage of the best that the West had to offer, chiefly through enrollment in universities in Germany and Austria, as well as to create a nation of their own. The first modern zionist yearnings emerged from Russia in the 1880s.

  460. BiBiJon says:

    http://www.lobelog.com/moscow-and-the-iranian-american-courtship/

    How I wished I hadn’t dragged my foot with Bushehr, and s-300s. Oh, and that darned resolution 1929.

  461. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Phone conversation between Hassan and Hussein:

    -Salamun alaikum

    -Alaikum salam rahmatullah

    -How’s Haj Khanum doin?

    -Great thanks, how’re Michelle and the girls?

    -Excellent, busy with all the foreign guests and all, you know…

    -Yeah…

    -Yeah…

    -John and Javad seemed to have hit it off well?

    -Yeah Javad’s a cool guy, really easy-going get’s along with everyone.

    -Yeah…so you think we can resolve this whole nuclear thing?

    -Yeah, but we gotta do it pronto otherwise the usulis in Majles will want Javad’s head on a platter…

    -Yeah…what about inspecting Natanz?

    -Just say publicly that we have the right to enrichment on our soil and you can inspect my auntie’s knickers…just send Susan and Samantha to inspect, no men…you know it’s a sharia thing…

    -Cool…

    -Alright my flights boarding gotta jet…nice talkin Hussein

    -Khahesh mikonam Haji, maybe we can hook up next year when you’re in town again…

    -Yeah maybe, inshallah…

    -Send my salam to the big boss…

    -Will do

    -OK bye

    -Bye

  462. James Canning says:

    Rouhani and Obama have spoken on the telephone. Good thing.

  463. James Canning says:

    Rd.,

    You apparently do not understand the PR campaign by Bernard-Henri Levy (who was in Benghazi at outbreak of the revolt). To get France to intervene in Libya. Sarkozy, BHL’s pal, pressed David Cameron to join France in attacking Libya. Dipomats trying to prevent western intervention and who knew Gaddafi, asked him to pipe down.

    No cmaparison to foolish American politicians ranting on TV.

  464. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Winston Churchill was not responsible for first World War. Or the Second World War.

    Foolish German generals were primarily reponsible for German catastrophe in First WW.
    Insane invasion of Belgium which brought Britain into the war.

  465. M.Ali says:

    The phone call and how both sides are loudly shouting it out is interesting and not what I expected. This could mean that Bibijon’s optimism might have been well on the mark.

    I’m still skeptical, but less so than I was last week. I’ll keep an open mind.

  466. James Canning says:

    “I think the tone and spirit of the meeting we’ve [just] had has been very good . . . and I pay tribute to Minister Zarif for that . . . ”
    William Hague, quoted in Guardian

  467. M.Ali says:

    Of course, reading this,

    “The official said that the Israeli government and congressional leaders, both sources of resistance to a rapprochement between Washington and Tehran, had been alerted before the call began.”

    Before the call began? Why?

  468. Fiorangela says:

    “Foolish German generals were primarily reponsible for German catastrophe in First WW.
    Insane invasion of Belgium which brought Britain into the war.”

    kicking and screaming.

    German generals also wrote the Bryce report.

  469. M.Ali says:

    However, I’m really concerned that this could backfire badly in our face.

    Rohani and team could have used their first year working to strengthen Iran in teh face of sanctions. I hope their economical plan isnt “be super nice to Americans, so that sanctions are reduced! weee! Problem solved”

  470. Fiorangela says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 27, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    M. Ali, you do well to keep your guard up.

    In the run-up to World War II, the US Military, US State Department officials, and even Franklin D Roosevelt himself were more inclined to dialog with Germany’s ambassadors and diplomats rather than marginalize them. FDR even negotiated a disarmament agreement that Hitler endorsed, and FDR boasted that he had achieved an historic bargain.

    But zionists in FDR’s administration and, especially, the Supreme Court, pulled out all the stops to derail the cooperation between Germany and the US; they ultimately succeeded.

    Felix Frankfurter was a passionate zionist. His position as judge on the US Supreme Court seems almost incidental; he committed most of his time to maintaining behind-the-scenes communications between FDR and Churchill, bypassing both Churchill’s and FDR’s advisers. Frankfurter was the hub of a network of “shadow elites” that encompassed Wendell Willkie, who defanged the “isolationist” tendency of the Republican party when he switched from Democratic to Republican, and ran against FDR in the 1944 election. Frankfurter maintained a network that included his mentor and fellow jurist Louis Brandeis, David Ben Gurion in Palestine, Chaim Weizman, also in Palestine, Winston Churchill, FDR, Rabbi Stephen Wise, to whom, on about Feb. 14, 1933, Brandeis had given the charge to remove ALL Jews from Germany. Felix Frankfurter turned the wheels of three nations — rather, two nations and an ethnocracy, USA, Britain and the zionist project in Palestine, all for the benefit of the zionist project, and to the great suffering of the people of Poland, Russia, Germany, Italy, and the USA.

    (Please note, Feb. 14 1933 is only two weeks after Hitler was named chancellor; he would not be affirmed by the people until March 5, 1933.)

    In this tribute to Frankfurter and Brandeis, Justice Stephen Breyer said that when Frankfurter represented the zionists at the Versailles treaty negotiations, he received a letter from an Arab leader pledging that Arabs and Jews would work together to make the zionist project in Palestine prosper.

    That sounds lovely, and it’s foolish to doubt that such a letter was delivered.http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Frankf

    But what Breyer failed to discuss is the six-week long study that King and Crane conducted, visiting over 18 villages and towns from Palestine to Constantinople to learn what were their needs and hopes in the aftermath of the Great War and dissolution of the Ottoman empire. King and Crane produced an extensive document that they rushed to Woodrow Wilson for his consideration at the Versailles conference. Their work was hidden away, and not consulted until many months after the fated conference had concluded.

  471. Fiorangela says:

    from M. J. Rosenberg, former AIPAC agent —

    “She asked me for my prediction. I said I thought they had no choice but to claim victory. I said that they can just say that the sanctions invented by AIPAC inflicted so much pain on Iran that it surrendered.

    She laughed: “Well, it’s obvious you don’t talk to them anymore. They are going to war over this issue. Netanyahu does not care about 90% enrichment or 5% enrichment. He wants to replace the Iranian government with one that the United States and Israel can control. An Iran on good terms with the United States is Netanyahu’s worst nightmare because it is an Iran that challenges Israel as the regional superpower.”

    She went on to say that she thought that AIPAC/Netanyahu was going to do everything possible to sink any possibility of an agreement.

    “Watch the Sunday shows. Mc Cain or Graham or Menendez, whoever, will be on yelling that Iran cannot be trusted. The media will repeat the same line. You don’t understand. For Israel, crushing Iran is the #1 priority. Your idea that Netanyahu can just claim victory makes sense, but only if you think that this is about nuclear weapons. It isn’t. It is about Israel’s regional hegemony. They will fight like hell..” . . .

    http://mjayrosenberg.com/2013/09/27/how-will-netanyahu-aipac-rest-of-war-lobby-react-to-iran-breakthrough/

  472. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Despite Hawks’ Claim of Greatest Threat, Iran is Very Weak
    http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/09/27/despite-hawks-claim-of-greatest-threat-iran-is-very-weak/

    Relative to the US, that is…

    See my comment there.

  473. Richard Steven Hack says:

    The Lobby Sets Out To Defeat Obama on Iran
    http://mjayrosenberg.com/2013/09/25/aipac-sets-out-to-defeat-obama-on-iran/

    It won’t be hard because Obama is on board with attacking Iran. He still thinks Obama is some sort of “good guy”. People never learn no matter how many times they get smacked in the face with the facts.

  474. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    The good old “they were asking for it” rationalization.Theres nothing quite like the stink of [western] hypocrisy

  475. Richard Steven Hack says:

    How the US is enabling Syriastan
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-02-270913.html

    I’m beginning to think Obama may be thinking big – instead of just bombing Syria to let Israel attack Lebanon, he may be thinking of turning Syria into another Afghanistan so he can justify another ten-year war attacking Al Qaeda in Syria…Maybe he wants that as an alternative to attacking Iran – or in addition to attacking Iran, so the military-industrial complex gets even BIGGER profits than an Iran war alone…Israel won’t mind as long as Hizballah gets taken out beforehand…

  476. paul says:

    We heard for years that Obama was the secret peacemaker. No doubt his admirers will declare this proven true if Obama makes a deal with Rouhani that he could have had anytime he wanted with Ahmadinejad…

  477. Karl.. says:

    paul

    Exactly. How long did Ahmadinejad sit? 8 years. Bush nor Obama did not reach out to Iran even once during these years, even if Ahmadinejad offered direct talks numerous of times.

  478. BiBiJon says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 27, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    “This could mean that Bibijon’s optimism might have been well on the mark.”

    M.Ali jan, Stopped clocks are right twice a day, so I sure wouldn’t pat myself on the back for some unusual analytic skills.

    I am profoundly happy at the bewilderment Iran hating chicken hawks must be feeling today. I also think Rouhani and Obama have gone way too far on a limb to be able to retreat. The fruit of peace is nearer for both sides than it has ever been.

  479. M.Ali says:

    I’m reading a bit about US house & senate debates, and can Americans here help me understand the implications that exist over how House can stop the government funding?

  480. Karl.. says:

    No change will occur since nothing changed, US also demand that IRan take first step.

  481. Rehmat says:

    Obama: ‘Hello President Rouhani. Bye bye Bibi’

    There was no handshake between Barack Obama and Hassan Rouhani at the UN General Assembly meeting in New York. Was it due to Jewish Lobby pressure, as we were told? The Jewish TIME magazine reported on September 27 that Iranian president Rouhani had declined an earlier request to meet with Obama on the sidelines of the UNGA meeting.

    Obama said during a press briefing at the White House that he did make a telephone call to Iranian president Rouhani on Friday, when the later was on his way to JFK Airport to return to Tehran.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/09/28/obama-hello-president-rouhani-bye-bye-bibi/

  482. Rehmat says:

    @fyi – Are you not ashamed to hide behind the Al-Monitor Zionist Jewish website.

    In case you’re really interested to learn about the “morals” other than the Jewish police in Israe – read Max Blumenthal’s masterpiece article.

    http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/occupation-%E2%80%9Coccupy%E2%80%9D-israelification-american-domestic-security

  483. Photi says:

    Menendez and Graham will demand too much and in the end get nothing for America. These guys have not once rid their minds of “regime change” for Iran. They do great damage to America’s international reputation with their war-mongering ways. Why should a war weary America listen to their militant rhetoric? When will Washington’s rhetoric change? When will America;s actions signal an end to American duplicity and extremism? Our bought and paid for congress needs a long look in the mirror.

    “…the maintenance and toughening of sanctions and a convincing threat of the use of force.

    In the coming days, we will be outspoken in our support for furthering sanctions against Iran, requiring countries to again reduce their purchases of Iranian petroleum and imposing further prohibitions on strategic sectors of the Iranian economy.

    We proceed with an open hand, but there can be a deal only when Iran’s actions align with its rhetoric.”

    BS. These guys are demanding complete capitulation on the part of Iran and they will not get it, and they know it.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/irans-messenger-has-changed-its-message-has-not/2013/09/27/b0be5b04-278e-11e3-b75d-5b7f66349852_story.html

  484. Photi says:

    *that last post is re: Senators Robert Menendez and Lindsey Graham’s editorial in the Washington Post, linked to above

  485. fyi says:

    Photi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 11:15 am

    I am doubtful that even a small deal can be negotiated with the United Stated.

    The current developments crucially depends on the clauses in the current US Law that gives US President the authority to wave certain sanctions for 3 months and repeatedly.

    US Congress could take away that authority from hi very quickly.

    As for any deal – it will not be strategic – the small deal will cause Iran to do certain things while certain sanctions are suspended.

    Even that, in my opinion, is a bridge too far.

  486. fyi says:

    Rehmat says:
    September 28, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Not at all, please see here:

    In Tehran:

    http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/127573/%D8%AA%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%88%DB%8C%D8%B1-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%AE%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AF-%D8%A8%D8%A7-%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%AD%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%AC-%D9%85%DB%8C%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF

    And in Lahore

    woophy.com/photo/1368669

    The harlots are so brazen; where is the Morals Police when we need it?

  487. M.Ali says:

    Can you please stop pretending to be Sasan? If you miss him so much, why not post at EnduringAmerica?

  488. M.Ali says:

    This:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/28/brian-williams-iran-propaganda

    What we should be aware of the “positive” news about Iran today is that is all about how Iran “has changed”. This creates the narrative and perception that Iran, if changed, must have been “bad” before. Rohani and his team need to be careful about this. They need to mention again and again, that their stance is not a departure from previous governments.

  489. Empty says:

    Obama did not change all of a sudden. It is quite likely that this temporary pretense to rapprochement is meant to extract cooperation from Russia over Syria or perhaps some other reason. Again, we have to find out exactly what really happened that put the break on Syria attack. Explanations that have been offered thus far are unconvincing. It is also likely that all these are the magician’s work to take people’s eyes off of Egypt till things are solidified there.

  490. Smith says:

    M.Ali,

    Truth is bitter. Ask anyone above 55 years old in Iran about comparison of prostitution in Shah’s time and now. They will tell you the answer. I think prostitution has increased by a factor of 1000 at least. This is so shameful. In fact alot of the prostitutes now are not poor, but do it for fun or as a form of political dissent. These are the truths. 35 years ago, the male prostitutes were unheard of. Today they are crawling in Tehran and other places. Using choomaq to prohibit women wearing colorful dresses and force all women to wear complete black all the time, is beyond stupidity. Iran’s traditional dresses have always been colorful. Using choomaq only makes this situation worse. Hypocrisy is worse than being an infidel. What is being promoted in Iranian society is being a hypocrite (a monafiq). Turning every one a monafiq should not be the aim of an Islamic system. But then a system which is promoting riba and interest and feed its children with such tainted money then this becomes the result.

  491. Smith says:

    Empty says:
    September 28, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Obama is a lame duck president. He can not even get his budget through the congress or guarantee that US is not going bankrupt in coming weeks and months. Assuming that he has any kind of power to negotiate Iranian sanctions in US congress is wishful thinking. He is just doing this to distract his domestic and foreign audience. Nothing will come out of it. Rest assured. Mr Obama is going to be a useless president for the rest of his time in office.

  492. Unknown Unknowns says:

    All:

    I’m intrigued as to why Obama is trying so hard to reach out to Rowhani? It does not jibe with my pigeon-holing him as the fluffer of the Axis of Weasels, aka the Evil Triangle of (primarily) Jewish merchant bankers, the military-industrial complex (and other corporate interests) and their sick religious enablers (the Straussians and the heretical Dominionist sect of so-called “Christian” Zionists, and the Liberal war party, and of course the Jewish Zionists themselves). I don’t for a minute think that he is actually trying to go against his masters, of course. I’m just wondering what the tactic is all about.

    Bussed-in Basiji-jan:
    Nice redaction of the telcon. On another point, I have to take issue with your earlier characterization of our Ahl al-Ketaab brother in faith as K*$-khol. I am sure that upon further reflection, you will agree with me that technically (shar’an) he is K*$-mashang.

  493. James Canning says:

    Unknown Unknowns,

    You might do well to consider as fact Obama would much prefer a negotiated resolution of the nuclear dispute. Even if the Israel lobby would prefer no such deal.

  494. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Obama lifted sanctions against Burma, even without express approval of US Congress. There may be more scope for him to act than you acknowledge.

  495. James Canning says:

    Photi,

    I doubt Obama is seeking “complete captiulation” of Iran. His apparent acceptaqnce of Iranian enrichment to 5% is ardently opposed by Israel and the Israel llobby. And fools like Lindsey and McCain.

  496. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    Political games figure into the fighting about US Gov’t funding, in US Congress.

  497. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Obama in fact “reached out” toward Iran, when he entered the White House in 2009. Bungled effort, perhaps. But he did “reach out”.

  498. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    “Nothing has changed”? Wrong. Acceptance of enrichment is a big change.

  499. James Canning says:

    paul,

    Powerful Democrats blocked any deal between Obama and Ahmadinejad.

  500. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes no change have occured.

  501. M.Ali says:

    Let me respond to you very carefully and in detail, as much as I can.

    “Truth is bitter.”

    Already you are starting very cliched. Truth doesn’t need any adjective. Its truth, its can be good, bad, bitter, or sweet.

    “Ask anyone above 55 years old in Iran about comparison of prostitution in Shah’s time and now. They will tell you the answer.”

    Are we talking about young people having sex orgies in some sort of sexual revolution or are we talking about prostitution, which is two completely different thing. The latter has less to do with “sexual revolution” than many other variables. When a country has an economical disaster, such as war, the number of women engaged in prostitution increases. Does this mean that the women in that country were suddenly involved in a sexual revolution?

    I’m not even comparing this to Iran yet, because first we have to know what exactly we are discussing, rather than you and fyi’s machine gun approach to conversations.

    So, is it the salon’s talk about Iranians involved in sexual revolution or women selling their bodies for money?

    As for “ask anyone over 55” approach, this is not how we should come to logical conclusions. This would be any question you would ask anyone over 55. It will be either how everything was amazing and awesome when they were young, or depending on the mood at the time, how tough they had it all the time. I don’t think we should base all our economic conclusions based on what the older generation thinks about how many they bought so and so for 2 tomans, and so we probably shouldn’t base our social conclusions based on what anecdotes some people have to talk about.

    “I think prostitution has increased by a factor of 1000 at least. This is so shameful.”

    For someone who hates The White Man and their love of Rape, you sure talk about them. Thats how they argue against Iran. They first make up a random fact about Iran, then say how its “negative adjective”. You are doing the same. Where did you get the 1000 number? Factor of 1000, AT LEAST?

    I don’t have any numbers in front of me, but I could just use a little bit of connect the dots to assume that its very unlikely. One, because during Shah’s time, because there were bars and such, it would be much easier to connect supply and demand. In most countries, bars are one of the best places to find prostitutes, the second place usually being in the same vicinities, such as red light districts. With the IRI, finding prostitutes becomes much more difficult.

    I grew up in Dubai and finding prostitutes was not difficult. Go to certain bars, and you find them full of prostitutes. But you won’t find the ease of market place in a place like IRI. So, this would make me to come to a conclusion that in today’s generation, supply of prostitutes would fall to a certain degree due to lack of viable place to market their wares.

    The second thing that contributes to men wanting prostitutes is when sexual relationships with non-prostitutes are difficult. Since you love anecdotes so much, why don’t you talk to people below 20 years old and check how many have gone to prostitutes?

    But all of this is irrelevant, because you are just making up numbers in your head and then calling that imaginary reality “shameful”.

    “In fact alot of the prostitutes now are not poor, but do it for fun or as a form of political dissent. These are the truths.”

    You are doing it again. Making something up and saying “these are the truths”. Saying something is true doesn’t magically make it true, no matter how hard you press the keys on your keyboard or how much you grimace at the screen. Are you saying that a lot of prostitutes sell their body, that is engage in a business transaction, for fun? What are you basing this on? I don’t even need to see facts, because it makes no sense. I’d say that it is possible some enjoy it, and some may have fun, but majority of them are just doing it for kicks?

    Or even more strange, political dissent? This is just moronic. Even if you say THESE ARE THE TRUTHS, I highly doubt it. I doubt the “1000 at least increase” of prostitutes in Iran have to do with political dissent. If this is true, it is probably unique in the history of the world and needs a lot of PHD’s thesis to be done on it. It would be very unique and worth looking into.

    “35 years ago, the male prostitutes were unheard of. Today they are crawling in Tehran and other places.”

    I’d not sure how to respond to sentences which I am not even sure are true. While it is perfectly possible that men are willing to sell their bodies for cash, I can not imagine how it was not available during Shah’s time. Maybe it was unheard, in the sense that no one talked about it, but did men willing to pay for sexplay with other men just suddenly pop up in Iran after 3000 years of history?

    “Using choomaq to prohibit women wearing colorful dresses and force all women to wear complete black all the time, is beyond stupidity. Iran’s traditional dresses have always been colorful. Using choomaq only makes this situation worse. Hypocrisy is worse than being an infidel. What is being promoted in Iranian society is being a hypocrite (a monafiq). Turning every one a monafiq should not be the aim of an Islamic system. But then a system which is promoting riba and interest and feed its children with such tainted money then this becomes the result.”

    This has nothing to do with prostitution. Its a complete different discussion, so I won’t respond to this for now.

  502. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    You have some difficulty understanding the imnportance of public opinion in France and Britain, that brought on the ill-advised (in my view) western military intervention in Libya.

    You apparently think Gaddafi acted wisely in virtually demanding western intervention?

  503. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    Compare Gaddafi’s gross PR incompetence, with Bashar al-Assad’s considerable skill.

  504. Smith says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:
    September 28, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    That is if you understand (though personally I think you and people like you are beyond help and have entered he realm of monafiqat):

    Sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH):

    “If somebody curses a believer then his sin will be as if he murdered him and whoever accuses a believer of Kufr then it is as if he killed him.”

    His Messenger on who is the best among believers:

    “He whose tongue and hand the Muslims are safe from.”

    “The Prophet never used bad language neither a Fahish nor a Mutafahish. He used to say The best amongst you are those who have the best manners and character.”

    From Quran Kareem:

    “Not a word does one utter, except that there is an (angel) Watching, Ready to record it.”
    [Surah Qaaf]

  505. James Canning says:

    Turkey apparently will buy a $4 billion missile defence system from China. A Russian company was also seeking the contract.

  506. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Yes, Rosenberg is quite right: Aipac and rest of fanatical “pro-Israel” camp will try to block a P5+1 deal with Iran.

  507. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I do not think it accurate to describe Aipac as “pro-American”. Far from it.

  508. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 28, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    That is drivel.

    I said the truth.

    You can accept it or just deny it. In either case, truth will neither benefit or suffer because of your decision. It would still remain over there.

    If I remember correctly you had said that you are from Ahlul-Sunnah brothers. There is a faction of Sunnah called Tableeqi Jamaat, while I do not personally agree with them but you can learn alot form these people of your sect. They preach not with Choomaq but try to actually win the heart. Unfortunately Shias do not have anything equal to that. Familiarize yourself with their techniques. You can not solve sociocultural problems with choomaq and drivel.

    You simply lack the knowledge. So I would not fault you. I would fault your ignorance.

  509. James Canning says:

    John McCain has hired Elizabeth O’Bagy, the young PR operative who tried to help convince the US Congress that weapons delivered to the “good guys” in Syrian civil war would not fall into hands of the “bad guys”. She invented a Ph.D from Georgetown U, to bolster her credentials.

  510. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Your claim that US acceptance of Iranian enrichment to 5% is “no change”, is simply wrong.

  511. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    smithy-jan,

    Your massive intelligence obviously doesn’t make you understand that anyone who says that the Prophet (sawas) should have ignored the revelations and should have just lived a quiet life is not a “believer”. Thus quoted ayat/rev not applicable.

    Ino mifhami IQ?

    Don’t give up, keep trying to find appropriate ayat and revayat.

    You seem to have developed a suppressed homo-erotic tendency towards you-know-who (hey, whatever floats your boat).

    Go find one these “street orgies” and get laid for God’s sake.

    UU,
    Super-duper-extra points.

  512. fyi says:

    All:

    A Chechen Wedding:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwYnJ27Scvo&list=RD02XGyWLTaeH5Y

    [Evidently the Sunni brothers and sisters have a different idea of Islamic behavior.]

  513. M.Ali says:

    Smith, are you a child?

    Again you just say “this is the truth” without any basis in it?

    How can you just make stuff up?

    This is what you see as our great Iranian people, to just make up things, without any science or foundation or analysis or fact behind it, and just say “THAT is drivel. I said THE truth.”

    How old are you?

    You’ve been doing this over the last year or so you have been here. You are not interested AT ALL IN THE TRUTH. You, like Smith, like fyi, are interested in yourselves ONLY.

    What did you base your conclusions on? This is important. This is how we Iranians advance. This is how we should move forward in the world.

    2 minutes of google search shows me a red light district during shah’s time called Shahr No. One data says that 1500 prostitutes lived in that area. This is just one area in full of Tehran. Would you say it is reasonable to say that at least, at the most minimum and cautious estimate, that at least four times that number would be a reasonable estimate for full of Iran at that time? Okay, so that would make 6000 prostitutes, a very small number, but hey, I’ll give you that. Multiply that by your 1000 percentage (at least, as per you), and that gives us 6 million prostitutes in Iran today.

    Okay, with me so far?

    So, lets continue. Iran has an estimate population of 75 million people. That already makes 7.5% Iranians whores, according to you. But lets just take the women, and just take women from age 15-49 (Iranian men love them young and love them old), that gives us 22 million. That means 27% of them are whores. With a quarter women whore population, who are prostitutes for fun and political dissent, why are you so worried about the White Men coming in and Raping us? Apparently, in your reality, one-fourth of our women are whores anyway.

    So you see, you simply lack the knowledge. Stop making statements out of thin air. Try to question your foundation, Shouting them out loud doesn’t making anything a reality. This site isn’t your platform. We aren’t here to listen to Smith’s Thought of the Day.

  514. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    More drivel.

    As I said, go and see the society around you. Iran is drowning in prostitution and pre-marital sex and outside of marriage sex.

    Truth will stand regardless of your drivel. Rest assured of it.

  515. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Check this out: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339367/Syrian-boy-Mohammad-14-shot-dead-parents-Islamic-extremists-claimed-insulted-Prophet.html

    The kid says, he does not even accept Prophet Mohammad if comes back on earth worthy of a free coffee and he is declared a non-muslim and killed infront of his mother.

    What do you think?

    Who gets to decide who is Muslim and who is not?

  516. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Do you think if Avecenna, Molana or even Ferdowsi were alive today, they would be accepted as Muslims by yeh alef basifi with choomaq on street?

    Some times I think there was more intellectual freedom in Iran one thousand years ago than today.

  517. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    I think that there is very little tolerance outside of the Axis Powers for freedom of expression.

    Reminds me of the famous – some would say infamous – interview on Iranian TV when this young woman was asked who was her role model and she stated that the Japanese TV drama character was her role model rather than Fatima, Prophet’s daughter.

    That particularly hurt the feelings of the conservatives, including the late Mr. Khomeini – they were very angry.

    Some had suggested the interviewer be executed, he was sent to some minor position and languished there for a decade or more.

    The young woman was never found else I am sure she would have suffered for free expression of her opinion.

    The fact is that all these people who are so militant about Islam are devoid of any positive message; they could not reach young people then and they cannot reach them now.

    They cannot articulate a vision or paint a canvas in which Fatima’s short life could be of relevance to young people.

  518. Persian Gulf says:

    Fiorangela:

    Unlike you, I have neither the interest nor the time to talk much about WWII. and the war is not an ideological thing for me. It’s a purely distant historical event for me. I could care less about Nazis or British or French…for that matter. and I assure you Hollywood did not shape anything about WWII in me, hence your obsession with Jews propaganda in the west. I am not sure why you think I care about Jews!

    I just talked about few facts, often based on my very limited knowledge of the events, and pointed out to the issues in your writings that were hard to comprehend. for example when you say Jews in the US declared war on Germany right after Nazi took control of the country in 1933, it just doesn’t make sense. why should a whole community in a far distant country declare war on a new political force that has jut taken control of Germany? at the same time you say Nazis didn’t do anything to Jews in the initial years of their rule. it’s amazing you don’t see the contradiction in your writings.

    It’s also amazing you see it quite fine for Nazis to take over Ukraine, and commit crimes over there, just not to repeat starvation of WWI by forces that had probably little to do with the people of Ukraine.

    The video you have posted here was talking about WWII in a German perspective. it was, supposedly, a very pro-German one. I can say, after watching it, I found annexation of Austria quite convincing. but for Czechoslovakia and the rest of Poland outside of that disputed areas, its arguments were really thin (let’s assume Denmark and Norway were just not important at the time). and the attack on USSR was clearly a Nazi aggression…. Even for the case of Britain. we accept your proposition that it Britain who started the war. it doesn’t change anything for Nazis being racists. it actually proves the idea. that Eastern Europe was not important (like disabled people, gypsies, and other minorities), but Britain was a sane place for Hitler to plunder.

    Anyway, in your writings, it would be good if you could just not consider me as being sympathetic to Brits, Americans or Jews for that matter. Not everyone that says Nazis were mad is a pro-west or pro-Jews.

  519. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    I agree with that assessment.

    A Millennia ago, Muslims were fired up with a zeal at building a new civilization. That zeal was based in a self-confidence in themselves and the Message of the Prophet which is lacking today.

    I recall the famous story of the atheist who was arguing with the Imam Sadeq in the mosque about the existence or non-existence of God.

    He was tolerated because those Muslims at that time had a strong belief in their faith & religion that could not be shaken by the arguments of the atheists – however cogent.

    By the time of Salah al Din (Saladin) that was over – the Doctors of Religion martyred the last original Muslim thinker in Aleppo – the late Shahab al Din Suhrewardi and the rest is history – as they say.

  520. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Do you think these Pakistani medical students on a country side tour are Muslims: http://www.pakmed.net/college/prosn06/ps006.18.jpg

    And check these Iranian women in traditional Iranian clothing, I guess they would be immediately arrested if they ever show up like this in Burj Milad:

    muhajabat.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/lebas-1.jpg

    muhajabat.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/patternphp.jpg

  521. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    So sad. This only affirms my deep belief that Muslims all over need a rethink of the foundation of all ideologies that have sprung up in Muslim societies. We need real thinkers for that to happen. Not the kind of reactionary wahabi (or their shia equivalent) or the westernized decadent types that are so much in power nowadays.

  522. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    You are asking the wrong man; you ought to ask all these people who hide behind the Muslim duty of Promoting Virtue and Combatting Vice in order to control the womb – for that is what it amounts to.

    God forbid that they oppose the Lie, no that is too hard and in opposing law they might actually suffer loss of income, position, and prestige.

    It is much easier to go harass defenseless Muslim women and despise and denigrate them…

    The Great King, Darius, ended the recounting of his accomplishments – carved at Bhistun – with the prayer: “May God protect this country from the Enemy, the Draught, and the Lie.”

    Evidently, even 2500 years ago, Lie was a major problem.

  523. Fiorangela says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Do and think what you wish, Persian Gulf; it changes neither the way the river flows nor facts that have already occurred.

    Good luck with your determination to remain ignorant of narratives other than your own. You’re off to a good start.

  524. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    That is my view as well; but you have to comprehend that the Christian people have been obsessing with Jews for centuries – always negatively.

    In a way, I am glad that they ignored the debt that they owed to Zoroaster, lest they obsess with us as well!

    I doubt that Jews in America had the influence that Mrs. Fiorangela attributes to them; United States did not admit Jewish refugees from Europe.

    In fact, the late Adolf Hitler was permitting the Jews to leave Germany – without their property – but no body wanted those undesirable people; not the North Americans, not the South Americans, not the Communists in USSR, no one.

    I guess everyone wanted them to go away and disappear – which they did by being annihilated by the Germans and others during the course of WWII.

    Of course, now every little shit country claims to have saved thousands of Jews – more than they ever had.

  525. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    I have to say this. In comparing Iran with western and eastern cultures, with which I have first hand experience, I can surely say that Iranians lie much more than any one else, Muslim or non-Muslim/Western or Eastern. From the morning to night, lies after lies whether in personal life or in society or in political life or even in religious life. Darius The Great obviously had a keen observation of the society he was ruling. Lie has become such an integral part of Iranian culture that I do not think it will ever leave it short of a large ideological shift redefining life and its values. In Iran they even lied about praying and keeping fast in Ramadhan so often by so many people it made me sick.

  526. Karl.. says:

    James

    Its “simply” right, enough of your lies now.

  527. fyi says:

    Irshad says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    I cannot recommend any books to you since I do not know you and do not know what your purposes are.

    Furthermore, that which influences one in one’s youth is often received bemusedly by much younger people as the irrelevant (however touching) musings of an old man.

    Nevertheless: I can share with you 2 books from my youth that has influenced my thinking:

    “The Mysterious Stranger” by the late Mark Twain

    and

    “The Second Chance” by the late Constantin Virgil Gheorghiu

    The first one is an indictment of individual human beings by an atheist and the second one is an indictment of the world politics by a Christian priest.

    I studied Liberal Arts.

  528. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    That has been my experience as well, Americans lie a lot less, in comparison.

    Yes, what is needed is a Greater Jihad (Jihad al Akbar) against the Lie in oneself.

    But then, who is going to control the womb?

  529. fyi says:

    Irshad says:
    September 27, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    In regards to Mr. Rouhani’s trip etc.:

    I think Axis Powers are estimating that Iran is weak and ready to concede significant elements of her nuclear program.

    They are trying to make it pleasant for Iran to do so.

    I very seriously doubt that Iran will concede anything significant.

    Here is my guess:

    20% suspension for 90 day suspensions of this or that US-imposed sanction.

    There will be no lifting of any UNSC sanctions – note that those sanctions are targeting Iran’s ballistic missile development as well.

  530. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    That is right.

    Do not worry about the womb.

    Iranian women are now sick and tired and wombs are turning dry.

    Iran has the world’s fastest decline of fertility in history of humanity and it is continuing.

    Let’s see who wins. The ignorant or the womb that created them.

  531. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    So basically, they are just offering a poisoned chalice (albeit this time gold ornamented) again. The last time they shoved it down the throat of the greatest Islamic thinker of the past century by shooting down an Iranian airliner.

    And from the fact of it, appears that it is much bigger too. More like a gallon of poison. The word in Washington is that sanctions and military threats are working. Iran is ready to capitulate.

  532. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    smithy-joon wrote,

    “As I said, go and see the society around you. Iran is drowning in prostitution and pre-marital sex and outside of marriage sex.”

    OK, so go get some of the action already- bi-orze!

    Ey vay! Don’t tell me you don’t know the magic formula for temporary marriage! Ey khoda! Shame, shame shame!

    What kinda Shia are you anyway?!

    Just goes to show…all the intelligence in the world is useless without orze (he said shaking his head).

    UU-jan,

    If he only knew the revayat about Hazrat Ameer (as) and never doing his morning prayers without ghusl-e janabat (if you know what I mean). Do you think his massive intelligence will understand the “madlule eltezami” (as the ulama say) of this revayat?

    You know us hezbollahis with our 4 permanent wives and x-to-the-n temporary wives, we’re gettin laid like Rod Stewart* in the late-70s!

    (*alternatively: Wilt Chamberlain, Tom Jones, Paul Stanley, Gene Simmons- I know he’s a Zionist bastard but hey, gotta give credit where credit’s due).

    (Maybe he should “ask anyone over 55” to tell him who Rod Stewart is!)

    Like I said, Islam is the best religion in every way and Allah (swt) takes care of all the natural, healthy and pleasurable needs of his abd without haraj.

    Khoda che kar kone if you don’t have the orze to implement his beautiful ahkaam in your life?

  533. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    Mr. Ahmadinejad had attacked and insulted their idol – the semi-religion of Shoah – by casting doubt on what its acolytes professed to be historical truths.

    [Mr. Ahmadinejad was not completely wrong – the figure of 6 million dead is not factual, for example.]

    Therefore, for the Axis Powers, Mr. Ahmadinejad was someone with whom they could not do business since he was a “Heathen” – he did not believe in Shoah and did not have the decency to hide it (unlike the Japanese, Chinese or South American leaders).

    Mr. Rouhani has positioned himself not as an agnostic when it comes to that semi-religion, thus Axis Powers are willing to entertain the possibility of working with him.

    This is essential to their public diplomacy.

    The call to Mr. Rouhani by Mr. Obama may be viewed as an inexpensive gesture in public diplomacy. And given the vanity of so many Iranians, it might actually work on Mr. Rouhani too.

    This is at the “Protocol” level of the hurly-burly of diplomacy.

    On the hard-edge of the sword of real power, the Axis Powers estimate that Iran is ripe for major concessions due to economic war and threat of force.

    Since the sanctions will erode over time – I can state that with metaphysical certainty – they are keen to get whatever concessions they can now.

    Iranian leaders and Axis Powers leaders know one another’s’ ultimate goals – ejection of Axis Powers from the Near East for Iran and destruction of Iran by the Axis Powers.

    After the delay in war against Iran introduced by Syrian accession to CWT, both sides are willing to reduce the intensity but not the war itself.

    Axis Powers need some concessions since they are under pressure by their domestic interests and by their vassals to lower the price of oil.

    Iranians are under economic stress and need to reduce that stress in order to facilitate the evisceration of sanctions in due time.

    Now the hard work of bargaining will start to trade this nuclear activity for that sanction’s suspension.

    Over the longer term, the acceptance of a formal communication channel at the foreign ministry levels between Iran and US could facilitate a grand strategic understanding between the Axis Powers and Iran.

    That is not in the cards yet, in my opinion.

  534. James Canning says:

    “One of the most stinging critiques I ever heard of George W. Bush’s disastrous invasion of Iraq came from the chairman of a major American oil company over lunch at his headquarters in Houston.”
    – – John R. MacArthur, Publisher’s letter in Sept. ’13 issue of Harper’s magazine

  535. Fiorangela says:

    Persian Gulf, same place —

    re: “issues in your writings that were hard to comprehend. for example when you say

    [1] Jews in the US declared war on Germany right after Nazi took control of the country in 1933, it just doesn’t make sense. why should a whole community in a far distant country declare war on a new political force that has jut taken control of Germany?

    My point exactly, PG: Why should a whole community in a far distant country declare war on a new political force that has just taken control?

    I DO NOT KNOW.

    I KNOW for a fact that they DID:

    — the banner headline, “JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY” appeared in several international newspapers, including the London Daily Express, on or around March 24, 1933. I’m not making up facts, nor was I responsible for placing the newspaper article — as I recall, on that date in 1933 I was having my eyebrows done and was too busy to do anything else — it was horrendous: the cosmetician’s tweezers were chipped and scratched my face. Very painful.

    — Edwin Black devoted several chapters of “The Transfer Agreement” to the intentions of the Jewish leaders who were responsible for declaring war on Germany, and who prosecuted that war for over seven years. Read a few pages for yourself — here: Chapters Three and Nineteen are on point. Black also discusses the Jewish boycott of Henry Ford that was used as a model for the Jewish boycott of Germany: Jews brought enough economic pressure to bear on Ford that he cracked; they thought they could do the same to Germany — (and to Iran).

    Your second point:

    “at the same time you say Nazis didn’t do anything to Jews in the initial years of their rule. it’s amazing you don’t see the contradiction in your writings.”

    I don’t say that of my own experience — I was living in a cave in Tora Bora at the time (1933) and having trouble keeping a charge on my satellite phone batteries. But authors Richard Breitman and Allen Lichtman, professors at American University, the same university where Dr. Hillary Leverett teaches, had a book published by Harvard Press. On the first page of that book Breitman and Lichtman say,

    QUOTE

    DURING WORLD WAR II, the Nazis and their collaborators shot, gassed, starved, and worked to death some six million Jewish men, women, and children in order to destroy the biological substance of the Jews. They perpetrated what remains to date the only systematic effort by a modern state to exterminate an entire people across all national frontiers.

    Upon gaining power in 1933, Adolf Hitler and other leading Nazis targeted for persecution alleged blood enemies of the German race. Yet before the war Nazi oppression of German Jews followed a jagged trajectory. Some Nazi activists physically assaulted Jews in the early exuberant days of Hitler’s . . .revolution. Once secure in their authority, Nazi officials curbed personal violence — END QUOTE

    Do you see the Time and Activity pattern of the “jagged trajectory?”

    Initially, “in the exuberant early days … activists” committed personal violence against Jews,

    BUT THEN,

    as Nazis consolidated authority, NAZI OFFICIALS CURBED PERSONAL VIOLENCE.

    Maybe I’m reading too much into these sentences.

    First off, the opening sentence, “destroy the biological substance of the Jews?”

    Is that the kind of hysterical nonsense one expects of a work written by a university professor at a prestigious university and published by an even more prestigious university press? Who is their audience if they think that a reader — like me — is not going to say, ‘But wait — Hitler and the Nazi party cooperated with Zionists to assist at least 150,000 German Jews to migrate from Germany. If they wanted to destroy the “biological substance of the Jews,” why did they cooperate in placing so much “Jewish biological substance” in safe-keeping in the land where the desert blooms with milk and honey (and also in New York City where even pond scum has a hard time blooming).’

    “…in the early exuberant days some Nazi activists …”

    Did you notice that it was not “Nazi leadership” but “Nazi ACTIVISTS” who physically assaulted Jews?

    That suggests to me that there was popular discontent among at least a certain number of German citizens.

    Where do you suppose that “discontent” came from?

    What was the situation of the German people between, say, the end of the Great War and subsequent German revolution, and following that, fourteen years of the (hated and chaotic) Weimar government?

    It was a time of hyperinflation; unemployment that reached 30% or more; periods of starvation that recalled the starvation endured during the war, when 800,000 Germans died. Soldiers returned from the front shell-shocked, or permanently damaged by gas, missing limbs. Many returned to homes where their wives, children, parents had starved to death. Two million Germans did not return at all. Everywhere there were orphanages.

    In that environment of suffering, “Jews declared war on Germany” with the intention of “bringing Germany to its knees,” in retaliation for Hitler having been appointed chancellor.

    You tell me who’s the bad actor in this situation.

    Based on what Breitman & Lichtman wrote, it looks to me like Nazis did what they could to calm and then resolve a very bad situation.

    Based on banner headlines in London Daily Express and on what Edwin Black wrote in “The Transfer Agreement,” it looks to me like American and other Jewish leaders did what they could to inflame and exacerbate an already stressful situation.

    Since you are not interested in this history, Persian Gulf, even tho it appears to me to have a direct bearing on current events regarding Iran — Bibi has said so on a number of occasions — I won’t waste your time with hypotheses about WHY American Jewish leaders declared war on Germany.

    It ain’t pretty.

  536. James Canning says:

    Peter Oborne, in Sept. 2013 Harper’s magazine: “When it comes to foreign affairs, of course, it is quite impossible to overstate the ignorance of average American voters, most of whom could not locate Iran on a map.”

  537. M.Ali says:

    With Iranian friends like Smith and fyi, who needs foreign enemies to rape us?

  538. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Once again you make the preposterous claim, that Germany wants to “destroy” Iran. TOTAL RUBBISH.

    If Iran fails to make a deal with P5+1, however, as Israel hopes, there likely will be very large problems ahead.

    Curious that you project onto Germany the wildest militaristic fantasies of haters of Iran (and promoters of insane colonisation programme in the West Bank).

  539. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Your professed belief Iran can work around the sanctions is fallacious simply because there would be more sanctions, if Iran continued to stockpile enriched uranium, possible plutonium programme, etc etc.

  540. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Your contention the USS Vincennes intentionally shot down the Iranian civilian airliner is almost certainly false.

  541. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Are you claiming it is untrue, that the US has changed its position on Iran’s enrichment of uranium to 5%?

    Are you arguing, even now, Obama will not accept such enrichment by Iran?

  542. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 28, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    As I stated before, you do not grasp the strategic situation.

  543. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes I am claiming that:

    1. You are lying.
    2. Support US hegemon
    3. Hate NPT

  544. nico says:

    Fiorangela says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    “Since you are not interested in this history, Persian Gulf, even tho it appears to me to have a direct bearing on current events regarding Iran — Bibi has said so on a number of occasions — I won’t waste your time with hypotheses about WHY American Jewish leaders declared war on Germany.
    It ain’t pretty.”

    Maybe others could be interested.
    Would you so kind as to share your assumptions with us ?

  545. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    That is all true. Let’s see what Mr. Khamenei does.

  546. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 28, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    If you can not understand the difference between adultery and rape, then you are truly beyond help.

  547. fyi says:

    All:

    Iran’s letter to IAEA detailing Iran’s complaints:

    tp://www.iaea.org/Publications/Documents/Infcircs/2013/infcirc854.pdf

  548. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Yesterday, the Financial Times pointed out that both Hillary Clinton and John Kerry have expressed support in the past, for Iranian enrichment to 5% or lower.

    I take this as a strong indicator Obama will accept such enrichment.

    This of course is a matter of opinion, and your notion of “lying” is absurd.

    But you are quite right to believe there is ZERO chance Iran will be allowed to stockpile 20% U. ZERO. In my view.

  549. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I do indeed “grasp the strategic situation”. If Iran tries to get too close to ability to build nukes quickly, all Iranian oil exports by sea will be stopped. In my view. Which could lead to larger problems.

  550. Fiorangela says:

    nico says: September 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Nico, I don’t have access to library just now, so quotations relied upon are from memory; they’re not precise as I would prefer —

    First, chronology is the first test:
    In a paper by Rafael Medoff at David Wyman Institute, the issue was whether the Jewish Agency Executive in Palestine, David Ben Gurion, director, should ask Allies to bomb Auschwitz.

    Ben Gurion stated the consensus view on 11 June 1944, when the JAE believed that Auschwitz was a labor camp. Under that belief, JAE declared, “we will nor request bombing because we do not want to be responsible for the bombing death of a single Jew.”

    that’s loaded for a number of reasons,** but its use here is merely for chronological purposes: count on your fingers: 1933 is eleven years before 1944. When “Judea declared war on Germany” in March 1933, not even David Ben Gurion had a hint of of something like holocaust.

    This chronology is critical: the zionist agenda came BEFORE the holocaust. This is as obvious as the nose on your face. In fact:
    1. on at least 10 occasions beginning in 1900, Rabbi Stephen Wise or other Jewish leaders or advocates wrote passionately of the “persecution” or “starvation” or “holocaust” of 6 million Jews. That’s anticipating David Ben Gurion’s 1944 knowledge by 40-some years.

    Second, so WHY did Judea declare war on Germany in March 1933?
    Edwin Black offers one like of reasoning and one enigmatic statement, both in “The Transfer Agreement.”

    The enigmatic statement: “within a fortnight of Hitler’s appointment as chancellor” [i.e. on or before 14 Feb 1933] “Louis Brandeis told Rabbi Stephen Wise that “All Jews must leave Germany.” Wise was shocked: “How are we supposed to get 585,000 Jews out of Germany?” Brandeis retorted: “I urge that all Jews must leave Germany.”

    WHY did Brandeis declare that “all Jews must leave Germany?” This question, and its timing, is crucial, imo.

    Edwin Black provides one explanation, also in “The Transfer Agreement:”
    Black says that in 1932 the zionist project in Palestine was in financial distress: the British had limited immigration to those Jews who could bring $5000 with them. Only German Jews had that kind of wealth and German Jews did not want to leave Germany: it was a lot like the Jews who preferred to stay in Persia rather than return to Jerusalem in 586BC — living in Persia/Germany was easier, more comfortable than living in Jerusalem/zionist Palestine.

    I suggest that the “Jewish declaration of war on Germany” was an attempt to provoke Germans into harming Jews in Germany, and also an attempt to frighten German Jews into leaving Germany because zionist Palestine needed the financial bailout that only German Jews could provide.

    The Brandeis quote in Edwin Black’s book is footnoted: its source is the autobiography of Rabbi Stephen Wise. I tracked down the reference in “The Challenging Years,” by Rabbi Wise. Just after Wise recounts the conversation w/ Brandeis in which Brandeis says Jews must leave Germany, Wise notes that many German Jews wrote letters to him telling him to please not provoke Germany, that Jews like their life in Germany and an economic war on Germany will cause stress on the German Jewish community. Wise says, “I paid no attention to these letters.” He hints that they were “written under threat by Nazis.” Wise was ardently, even rabidly zionist. His concern was not for Jews but for Herzl’s zionist fantasyland.

    Brandeis’s diktat was successful: in late 1933, a newsletter published by the Seventh Day Adventists noted that “Jews are on the march, again, in Europe.” Within the next three or four years, at least 50,000 German Jews migrated to Palestine which became the most prosperous place on the planet. By 1937, “the Jewish architect,” Erich Mendelsohn, designed and built luxury residences for the Schockens (owners of department stores in Germany and the Jewish newspaper Haaretz), Chaim Weizmann, plus a Hebrew medical center, and a major construction project for Hebrew University. Samuel Untermyer used a New York city fundraising event to benefit Hebrew University, in August 1933 to blast Germans as “barbarians;” to grind into the German psyche that every civilized achievement Germans had was attributable to Jews. Ginning up hatred was, apparently, considered an effective way to open up pocketbooks.

    Third. The financial manipulations that were taking place in this era — the inter-war period, or Weimar Germany era — were very complicated. The central banks of England, France, Germany, and USA were involved; Warburgs had a hand in at least three of those central banks — England, Germany, USA — and Warburgs were also heavily involved in Palestine. I haven’t figured out all the interrelationships among these banks and bankers, but it is not unreasonable to assert that they played a key role in pushing the economic war on Germany.

    Spend a few minutes listening to Juan Zarate explain the many benefits of the US Treasury Department “Financial Warfare” program. Zarate claims that Treasury’s Financial Warfare was conceived as a response to 9/11. 19 Arabs are said to have been the perpetrators of 9/11. Zarate said that Treasury’s financial warriors did take some action against Saudi Arabia, but KSA government explained how charitable groups are intricately related to government so you can’t really touch anybody in KSA; Treasury bought the argument and kept hands off KSA.

    Curiously, there’s a passage in the official 9/11 report that says that “tracking down financial backers of 9/11 terrorists was deemed unproductive.”

    But if you listen to Zarate for a few minutes, you will hear him say Iran at least a dozen times. Iran was not involved in 9/11 — unless, of course, an Iranian used car salesman supplied the taxi that took the 19 Saudi hijackers to the airport (or FROM the airport as case may be). http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/TreasurysW

    So clearly, Treasury’s current “financial warfare” agenda has little to do with 9/11 and a lot to do with protecting American Federal Reserve/dollar hegemony — much like the financial manipulations amongst Germany-France-Great Britain-USA in the 1930s had to do with enriching USA and achieving US dollar hegemony, at the expense of Germany. Germany, under the combined efforts of Hitler and Hjalmar Schacht, had the temerity to remove Germany from the central bank system. That was Hitler’s “crime.”


    ** Ben Gurion’s and the JAE’s June 1944 concern that “not a single Jew be bombed” is extremely significant: By 1944, at least 250,000 German civilians had been incinerated or asphyxiated from Allied firebombing. 131 German cities were destroyed in total, and 7 million German civilians were rendered without home or shelter. I don’t know what the portion of that number was in June 1944, but it must have been very large — an estimate of 5 million homeless German civilians is not unreasonable.

    Is it fair to assume from Ben Gurion’s concern that not a single Jewish person was among those Germans who were killed by Allied firebombing, or rendered homeless by Allied firebombing?

    Where did those 7 million homeless German civilians go? How many of them were Jewish? Were any of them Jewish?

    It is reasonable to assume that Jewish leaders such as Chaim Weizmann and David Ben Gurion were well aware of the firebombing of Germany inasmuch as Erich Mendelsohn, “the Jewish architect” who had built Weizmann’s house and Hebrew University, also designed a full-scale, precise mock=up of German workers’ housing in the Utah desert at Dugway (not far from the NSA data center). The US Air Force and Standard Oil company used “German Village” to experiment with and rehearse the “most efficient” means of creating a firestorm that would result in the maximum loss of life and shelter with the minimum in chemical weight and expenditure.

  551. Photi says:

    fyi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    FYI, have you heard of Octavia Nasr or Helen Thomas? Each victims of their own free expression IN THE WEST. The last thing we have in the US is freedom of expression about the Middle East, you should know that. “Freedom of expression” is relative to the society and position of the individual expressing it. Iran has been expressing for years they do not want nuclear weapons, and the vaunted, clear and forward thinking West is just now hearing it?

  552. M.Ali says:

    Smith,

    “If you can not understand the difference between adultery and rape, then you are truly beyond help.”

    You are the one that doesn’t understand the difference between orgies and prostitution, and also, more importantly, the difference between truth being based on facts, rather than shouting, “THAT IS DRIVEL. WHAT I SAY IS TRUTH, DEAL WITH IIITTTTTTTT” and just to add validity to your statements, add random statistics such as “1000 times increase in prostitution in 30 years! AT LEAST”, which I factually proved your statement wrong and moronic, which you ignored, and just basically, repeated, LOOK AROUND YOU.

    Let me talk about your 1000 claim statement again. You must understand that numbers should mean something, otherwise what is truth? If I say, Iran is 33% better than other countries, and 46% better than it was 10 years ago, and it will decrease its betterness by 93% in the next 10 years compared to 14% of other countries, you should rightfully ask me, what are you basing your numbers on, what are your variables, how are you comparing them, and so on?

    If I am an intelligent person, interested in Truth, with a capital T, then I should try to either provide information to back up my statement, and not use the FYI/Smith/Sasan argument, which would be, “SHUT UP! I AM RIGHT!” and then talk about random things.

    Saying something like, prostitution has increased by at least 1000 times should be very easy to prove. You should find out the statistics before the revolution, find the statistics now, and use this magical, formula supported by God:

    (Number of IRI Political Dissent and For Fun Whores – Number of Prostitutes During Chamokless Shah Period)/Number of Prostitutes During Chamokless Shah Period X 100

    The result will give you a percentage. If the percentage is above 1000% then what you said is true. If not, then its not Truth, no matter how bitter or non-bitter it is, Truth doesn’t come out of imaginations and wants and desires to support your own theories.

    Numbers should mean something.

    I tried to prove your statement wrong, as much as I could with a simple. I repeat, if Shah era red light area, called Shahr-No, had 1500 prostitutes (50 years ago, not even 1979), and I’d say that number was at least four times that throughout Iran, that would make 6000 prostitutes, which I would still say is a very low number. if that number is multiplied by 1000, that gives us 6 million, out of 22 million 15-49 population of women, that makes 25% of Iran women, at least, prostitutes.

    Now I know, its almost stupid of me, to true to continue a discussion with numbers, which is usually very frowned upon, because people generally like to talk out of their ass, but I have now, basically, factually proven you wrong.

    Let me try it another way.

    My hometown’s population is 20,000 according to the last census. During the Shah’s time, there used to be at least one bar. I would say that there was probably one prostitute back then in our hometown. With a 1,000 increase, we should have 1,000 prostitute now. But, we don’t. We actually have NO prostitute, Trust me, I ask around. The only prostitute I can remember ever being mentioned for the last two decades, was one old nomad living in the outskirts of town. She apparently has either retired by now or is dead, I’m not sure, but that’s at least 100% decrease in prostitution in the last few years!

    So, you can shout again about THE TRUTH, and you can call me ignorant, but I know, at least, that I have tried to engage you with facts as much as possible.

    I would also like to mention, I havent even mentioned what I think of prostitutes, what I think of the government’s attitude towards sex, and I have not yet injected my morality in this discussion, because for me to come to any conclusion, I need to start with a foundation of facts, for me to understand the reality of the situation, the reasons behind it, and then weigh the positive and negative aspects of it, as a whole, before I can actually make a statement. With you, I can’t even move on to the rest, because I without you proving your ridiculous proclamation of an increase of 1) 1000% of prostitutes in a mere 3 decades, with 2) majority of them being in it for FUN and POLITICAL DISSENT, and 3) that the cause of those two former very irregular points being the Morality Police, should be proved, step by step, before one should make their own conclusions.

    But why did I waste all this time? I’ve done this dance with fyi and Sasan and Scott before.

  553. Photi says:

    fyi, for aspiring, semi-principled, free-to-express anything Western journalists, what lessons are they supposed to take away from the examples of Nasr and Thomas?

    If the Press is not free, then what good is freedom of expression? People have always been free to express what they want between themselves, it is when that expression goes public that problems arise. Is the Western press free, fyi?

  554. Fiorangela says:

    Kathleen, thanks for mentioning Ron Suskind’s explanation of how/ why US would not pursue financial ties of 19 hijackers (ahem) to KSA

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/israels-balance-normalized.html/comment-page-1#comment-597716

    In his talk glorifying the US Treasury Dept’s own little scheme for blasting to pieces US law and any sort of honor of contracts and free enterprise, Juan Zarate was Patrick Swazey on steroids in dancing around the issue of holding KSA accountable.

  555. Fiorangela says:

    Photi says: September 28, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    re Freedom of press and freedom of expression — i.e. Bill of Rights guarantees —

    In my opinion, the matter of affirming or danying holocaust is a First Amendment issue:

    “Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

    As it stands, or as the Charlie Ann Curry Roses of the world would have it, there is only one correct answer. That amounts to a dogma, or an article of belief to which one is coerced to subscribe.

    The US State Department enforces that one correct answer: “Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust” is an example of antisemitism monitored worldwide by US State Department.

    That’s not Constitutional and it’s not acceptable.

  556. Photi says:

    Hi Fiorangela, i wanted to tell you that “Crime and Punishment” is one of my all-time favorites. I have read other works by Dostoevsky, but Crime and Punishment takes the cake.

  557. fyi says:

    Photi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Your are quibbling.

  558. Rehmat says:

    Today, I read the most repulsive and bigoted article written by Uri Avnery. He is the founder of the so-called “Israeli Peace Block (Gush Sholam)”, and a darling of “Israeli Left”. American Jewish writer and blogger, Roger Tucker, on the other hand, has called Avnery a Closet Zionist along with Noam Chomsky and Jimmy Carter.

    “Years ago, I disclosed one of the biggest secrets about Iran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was an agent of Mossad,” Avnery begins his article with this Revelation….

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/09/29/uri-avnery-ahmadinejad-was-mossad-agent/

  559. fyi says:

    Photi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    The Western free is not free as much as it used to be, it has been going down hill for at least 2 generations.

    But it is still freer than Iranian press.

    And relative to Iran or any Muslim state that you care to mention, there is more academic freedom in the Western World.

    But let us concentrate on the case of the late Mr. Sattar Beheshti who was a web-logger, like the rest of us, who was killed in government custody.

    Now, he was a young Muslim man who cared about his country and wished to play a role in the political discourse of his country.

    I am still waiting for Justice to be served; a public trial of those responsible with a death sentence – as well as state paying blood money.

    I would have expected that the Head of Iranian Judiciary to have had the decency to take responsibility and resign for under his watch an innocent young Muslim was murdered by forces reporting to him.

    What the Western states do is a useful yardstick but I think it will be good idea to try to do better.

  560. Photi says:

    here you go fyi, here is some freedom of expression. the whole fourth estate is shiny sleaze.

  561. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 28, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    I do not think that you do.

    Efforts to constrain Iranian nuclear program are not conducive to strategic settlement with the Shia Crescent – that which the Axis Powers and their local allies created through their wars in Iraq and in Syria.

    Nor will they succeed.

  562. fyi says:

    Photi says:
    September 28, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    The degeneration of the United States over the last 3 generations – caused in large part by their love affair with Israel and their Imperial over-stretch – is not in dispute.

    One would hope that the Islamic Republic would do better – and in my opinion, it could.

    Why was no press in Iran reported on the “Oxford Branch of Azad University”?

    It was Mr. Rafsanjani’s son’s sinecure – to the tune of 400,000 pounds a year, if I recall.

  563. M.Ali says:

    Photi and Fio, out of Dostoyevsky’s books, I’d choose “The Brothers Karamazov”, had lots of great passages.

    “People talk sometimes of bestial cruelty, but that’s a great injustice and insult to the beasts; a beast can never be so cruel as a man, so artistically cruel. The tiger only tears and gnaws, that’s all he can do. He would never think of nailing people by the ears, even if he were able to do it.”

    or

    ““For the secret of man’s being is not only to live but to have something to live for.”

    or

    ““Fathers and teachers, I ponder, “What is hell?” I maintain that it is the suffering of being unable to love.”

  564. Photi says:

    Great stuff by Hersh:

    “It’s pathetic, they are more than obsequious, they are afraid to pick on this guy [Obama],” he declares in an interview with the Guardian.

    “It used to be when you were in a situation when something very dramatic happened, the president and the minions around the president had control of the narrative, you would pretty much know they would do the best they could to tell the story straight. Now that doesn’t happen any more. Now they take advantage of something like that and they work out how to re-elect the president.

    If we (citizens) take Hersh’s advice, it is time to hold Obama against the wall on his Iran policy. No more lies, no more militancy, no more shrapnel cloaked with nice words. Peace now.

  565. M.Ali says:

    And Fio, speaking of books, I know you complain about contemporary and I know most of us here are not huge fans of America, but recently I read “East of Eden” and it was such a powerful book that made me realize why some Americans are so angry about their country. Americans really struggled, and its a shame what its turning it into. I realize that it is the most humane Americans that are standing against it now, not due to it being a BAD country, but it being in a state that had many people work real hard for in the past, and its a huge shame, to see all the old Americans’ efforts go to waste.

    The book, East of Eden, made me fall in love a bit with the old, now dead, Americans, the normal, hard working people who just wanted to make a living in a hard land.

    “”In uncertainty I am certain that underneath their topmost layers of frailty men want to be good and want to be loved. Indeed, most of their vices are attempted short cuts to love. When a man comes to die, no matter what his talents and influence and genius, if he dies unloved his life must be a failure to him and his dying a cold horror. It seems to me that if you or I must choose between two courses of thought or action, we should remember our dying and try so to live that our death brings no pleasure to the world.””

  566. M.Ali says:

    And of course, Steinbeck’s “The Grapes of Wrath” is nothing less than a celebration of humans, and again, it makes one appreciate America more.

    “Our people are good people; our people are kind people. Pray God some day kind people all be poor. Pray God some day a kid can eat. And the association of owners knew that some day the praying would stop. And there’s the end.”

    The above sentence always gives me a bit of chill.

  567. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Do you think Iran or for that matter Islamic lands would be able to produce some one like Seymore Hersh in this century?

  568. Smith says:

    M.Ali,

    Oh, ok. There is no prostitution in Iran. You win.

    Now go to any street, park or public square and keep yours eyes open. As I remember even Iranian virgin girls were being sold cheap to Sheikhs in Dubai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5oyCbhbO_U

  569. Photi says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 28, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    “The book, East of Eden, made me fall in love a bit with the old, now dead, Americans, the normal, hard working people who just wanted to make a living in a hard land.”

    M.Ali

    No, they are not all dead. My grandfather, who is himself the grandson of German immigrants from Russia, who is now retired but was once a hard-working dryland wheat farmer who does still own his land (though it is now given over to winter grazing grounds for some of Washington State’s substantive deer herds), is still alive and well and cogent about the world, residing in Odessa, Washington.

  570. Photi says:

    And just for giggles, my grandfather’s last name is Smith (though we were formerly Messerschmidts)!!

  571. Castellio says:

    M. Ali… reading your relaxed and generous responses to Smith, I take it you have had a bit of a free day, time on your hands.

    (Don’t get me wrong, I always appreciate your posts.)

    I am looking forward to the Leverett’s take on the current situation. If there is a genuine breakthrough in American-Iranian relations, then I think we have them to thank, at least partially, for the improvement. Their informed, committed and well argued work over many years is much appreciated. I believe, too, their influence has spread, to some degree at least, behind doors formerly closed.

    So where, in their estimation, are we now?

  572. Fiorangela says:

    Photi and M. Ali, thank you for posting inspiring passages.

    You’re partly right, M. Ali: It’s really depressing to see how the US has fallen from the vision of the Founding Fathers.

    But — they were human beings and not fantastic creatures. If we are able to figure out what inspired their good ideas — which I think is partly attributable to their deep understanding of ancient myths and wise men — then we at least have a direction toward getting back on the right track. Tea partiers and those who say, “Return to the Constitution” are attempting to find that path, but having been steeped in bumper sticker philosophy and 30 min sit coms for so many years, we want a quick and easy fix.

    On the other hand, when I read about the double dealing of people like Chaim Weizmann and David Ben Gurion, I feel really lucky that the USA had people like as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. I keep looking for that Thomas Paine or Harriet Beecher Stowe who will write the book that will inspire the nation to a renaissance.

    If I led a church congregation instead of reading-the-bible-in-a-year, I would NOT read the bible for a year but instead read Brothers Karamazov, and Aeneid, and Metamorphoses, Oresteia, Gilgamesh. East of Eden.

    I’ve been working my way through Gertrude Stein’s “Wars I Have Seen.” It’s pretty close to a biography, and she reflects how children are affected by war, even just talk about war. We don’t think about that so much: What are young children thinking and fearing and how are their souls being shaped when they hear leaders say so breezily that the way to solve problems is to kill people.

  573. Fiorangela says:

    re Ahmadinejad is Mossad bcz he denied the holocaust and caught lightening bugs in glass jars …

    Do these people think we are all stupid?

    AIPAC started imposing sanctions on Iran in 1995.

    Ahmadinejad did not appear on the scene til 2005. According to “The Nuclear Sphinx of Tehran,” nobody knew anything about him until he was elected to the presidency.

    So was it another gift of foreknowledge that the Israel lobby started punishing Iran ten years in advance for the sins that it KNEW Ahmadinejad would commit?

  574. ToivoS says:

    There must be many disappointed troops today here at going to tehran. It really looks like Obama is moving towards using diplomacy to solve our problems with Iran. As I suggested about 18 months ago Obama had decided to come to an agreement with Iran. He couldn’t move on this decision until after the last election for obvious political reasons. He has been slow since his re-election but it does appear he has started something now. This is real and I believe he will make the concessions needed to come to an agreement with Rouhani.

    One thing that is helping this happen right now is that the American people are sick of more war in the ME and they will support a peaceful solution even if it means that Iran will be permitted to continue enriching U238 for their nuclear energy program. In short Obama will accept a deal that he could have achieved four years ago. I also suspect that the outlines of a deal have already been reached with the Iranians and the coming diplomatic dances and posturing to come we will will be designed for the US to save as much face as possible. After all an acceptable solution will require the US to retreat from positions that we have insisted on previously.

    The Leverett’s have been overly pessimistic about this process but they should be proud of their contribution to this political debate over the past few years. I think they have educated many people in the US as to what the US must accept if a just diplomatic solution to this problem is to be achieved. This contribution will help make it easier to have the American public accept the results of the coming negotiations. This is important because AIPAC and Israel have already began their attack on this diplomatic process but I think strong public support for a negotiated settlement will defeat the lobby this time.

  575. Castellio says:

    FYI: there’s a comment over at a post at Sic Semper Tyrannis that I thought might interest you. It’s by David Habakkuk.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2013/09/httpwwwwashingtonpostcomblogsworldviewswp20130926did-the-window-for-arming-syrian-rebels-just-close.html#comment-6a00d8341c72e153ef019affa90d60970d

    Fred,

    I am too ignorant to have a firm view.

    However, there is a long-standing tradition of thought, which sees redemptive political projects as liable to conceal both narcissism and an unacknowledged will to power.

    A contemporary American representative of this tradition is the Catholic writer Claes Ryn. From a 2006 address:

    ‘The Jacobin is a true believer. He has access to universal principles, you see, and they demand “moral clarity.” You are either for his principles, which makes you virtuous, or you are against them, which makes you evil. It’s all so clear.

    ‘To have unquestioning faith in one’s own moral superiority is for Christians the cardinal sin. Only a profoundly conceited person could think that for another to oppose him is by definition morally perverse.

    ‘But the Jacobin assumes a right to have his way. Behind his moralism hides a desire to dominate. The hesitation or trepidation that may trouble men of conscience do not deter him. The will to power silences all doubt.’

    Actually, as a generalisation about Christian belief this is misleading. Millenarian ideas have a long history in Christian civilisation. Such beliefs were I understand a strong undercurrent in the decision of the Pilgrim Fathers to found a new society in America, and were rife in England during and immediately following the Civil War.

    There were, likewise, strong millenarian undercurrents in Russian Orthodoxy, particularly among the so-called ‘Old Believers’ following the schism of the seventeenth century. And their mentality was carried over – in putatively secular form – into the thinking of the Russian revolutionary intelligentsia of the nineteenth century: which is probably a major reason why the political activity of that intelligentsia was so disastrous.

    Millenarianism has commonly been associated with antinomianism – the belief that the moral law is not binding on the elect. Critics have time and again argued that this was a recipe for catastrophic moral collapse. The same kind of arguments that Ryn makes can be found in the novels of Dostoevsky, and also among ‘cavalier’ British writers. The 1814 fable ‘Confessions of a Justified Sinner’ by the Scottish peasant poet James Hogg paints one of the most terrifying portrayals of the moral disintegration of a ‘true believer’ ever written.

    The apparent belief of Obama that the United States is ‘exceptional’ because it is willing to engage in righteous violence, without either looking properly at the evidence of what has happened, or at the possible consequences of intervention, seems to me to add to an accumulating body of evidence that suggests he is indeed a ‘justified sinner’.

    If this is indeed the case, it would seem that what we are seeing is a victory of a degenerate version of the tradition of the Pilgrim Fathers, over those many strands in American culture – rooted both in Biblical and classical traditions – which suggest that it is prudent to be sceptical about one’s own good intentions, as well as those of others.

  576. ToivoS says:

    ““Years ago, I disclosed one of the biggest secrets about Iran: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was an agent of Mossad,”

    Egad Rehmat, Avnery was engaging in satire. And no, he is not a closet Zionist, he is quite openly one.

  577. Unknown Unknowns says:

    Irshad:
    Thanks for initiating the discussion on book recommendations. In case you missed my earlier post (of a few weeks back), here is the link to my database of Islamic books in English. I recommend Allame Askari, though what little I have of his work is poorly translated.

    http://sdrv.ms/14TX3Ey

    Castellio:
    Good to see you posting again. The knowledge and moral vision you display in your addendum to the Sic Semper Tyrannis post is very impressive.

  578. Unknown Unknowns says:

    By the way, “we” (the Hollywoodism gang – I’m not really a part of it) tried to invite the usual suspects for the second New Horizon Film Festival in September, but the new Minister of Islamic Guidance was not going for it. Thinking it was a budget issue, independent funding sources were mustered, removing that potential obstacle. But then, the whole bandwagon was derailed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs when Mr. Zarif refused to authorize visas for the motley crew, saying that “these are people whose viewpoints are antagonistic to the US, [whom we do not want to antagonize]” (my awkward paraphrase; sorry).

  579. Karl.. says:

    James

    Correct thats why I called you a liar.

  580. Karl.. says:

    Toivos
    September 28, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    Not at all, have you already forgot P5+1? Obama want “diplomacy”? Come on. There’ve been no adjustment yet by US.

    Defeating aipac? Lets be serious now.

  581. Karl.. says:

    Poll – almost 9/10 americans want better relations with Iran.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/euphoria-breakthrough-americans.html

  582. M.Ali says:

    Smith responds by,

    “Oh, ok. There is no prostitution in Iran. You win. ”

    Please don’t put words in my mouth. Disputing your figure of “1000 increase in 30 years” does not mean that I believe there are no prostitutes.

    I have an issue with the basis of your arguments, without me believing in the foundation, I can not take your word for it. It would be dishonest of me, and would be a celebration of ignorance.

    The content of your discussion was based, I repeat, in three parts:

    1) The Facts: Prostitution Increase of 1000%, at least, in 30 years

    2) The Motivation of Prostitutions: Most of them are selling their body (a) for fun and (b) for political dissent

    3) The Cause: The cause for Point (1) & Point (2) is due to IRI’s Morality Policies.

    Unfortunately, you are not intersted in Truth, you are interested only in advancing your own agenda, therefore you make up numbers. Again, for somehow who hates the White Man so much, you are doing exactly the same thing they do in regards to Iran.

    Castellio says I have a bit of free time on my hand and this is something I’d heard about me for a long time. Costellio, I don’t, I just probably don’t make the best use of my time. I was writing my posts late at night, after my wife went to bed, and it could be argued, and argued well, that I should have been beside my wife instead of replying to Smith.

    But I’m a bit OCD when it comes to debates. I believe that a very constructive and beneficial debate can be had if one breaks down a discussion to its smallest points first and tries to debate that using facts as much as possible, and then continue from thereon.

    The fact that my theory has been proven wrong again and again with discussions with people like fyi, smith, sasan, and Scott Lucas, has so far not yet discouraged me.

  583. M.Ali says:

    Unknown Unknown and others, as we are discussing books, and people here have interesting knowledge, I’m interested if you guys have Goodreads accounts.

  584. Karl.. says:

    Sounds like netanyahu will do everything to destroy Iran on tuesday at the UN.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.549421

    Will this be his Powell moment? Showing pictures of a new secret nuclear reactor in Iran?

  585. BiBiJon says:

    Watching chicken hawks, on a cheese platter
    =========================================

    First up, livid David Sanger anger, whose cheesy flavor is to make ridiculously maximalist demands on Iran sound run of the mill, and so later be able to condemn any ‘reasonable’ deal as capitulation by Obama.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/world/middleeast/big-challenges-remain-despite-progress-on-iran.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    “At the heart of the “significant concerns” that Mr. Obama said the two countries would have to address is whether Iran’s divided leadership is really willing to dismantle vast parts of the multibillion-dollar atomic infrastructure it has amassed over the past decade as just part of the price for ridding the country of the sanctions that have crippled daily life.”

  586. Fiorangela says:

    re Sanger in NYT:

    Obama said this: “So the test will be meaningful, transparent and verifiable actions, which can also bring relief from the comprehensive international sanctions that are currently in place.”

    Does that signal Obama’s acknowledgement that he is powerless to move Congress and therefore lift unilateral sanctions — those imposed by action of US Congress?

    C Span is a megaphone for right-wing foreign policy — count the number of times Flynt & Hillary have been guests on C Span in the past 5 years, vs. the number of times WINEP conferences and WINEP fellows have been featured.

    Juan Zarate is getting many hours of exposure on C Span; he’ll be on again this morning, to discuss the US Treasury Department’s “guerillas in grey suits” — US Treas. employees whose work is to shake down international banks and financial institutions with the goal of forcing them to make the “economic” decision that doing business with Iran is not in their best interest.

    Zarate said “it will be very difficult” to unwind these methods and processes, because they do not involve legislation but involve direct actions of business leaders.

    Rouhani took a tremendous risk, and as Sanger states in his column, following through will involve impacting the life’s work of many people.

    Obama took no risks whatsoever, and placed no substantive concessions on the table, not even as teasers. He’s dealing in optics.

    That the American people are 80% in favor of improving relations with Iran is nice, but systems like those that Zarate put in place are subtle and can only be rolled back with a complete examination and overhaul of interests that the US has sponsored for 100 years.

  587. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 29, 2013 at 4:21 am

    Again. It is all drivel. No point arguing with you. There are good Rx for OCD nowadays, you might want to take it up with your health provider. And of course Iranians girls are still being sold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5oyCbhbO_U

  588. Unknown Unknowns says:

    BiBiJon-san:

    Yes, there are at least two more patently absurd assertions in the absurd Sanger’s piece you excerpted:

    “… Iran’s divided leadership…” and “… that have crippled daily life.” Absolutely absurd.

    1. If our leader did not have confidence in Rowhani, he would not have allowed the nuclear file to be transferred to the Foreign Office. The fact that this has taken place is a sign of the great strength and unity of purpose that the Republic currently enjoys.

    2. There is an artificial lake which has been created to the west of Tehran (I think its called daryache-ye shohada-ye khalij-e fars (Lake of the Martyrs of the Persian Gulf), and there must be about 100 cranes all around it (if not more), busy putting up mid-rise and high-rise buildings. Construction is a barometer of any economy, as all the trades employed in it represent about 50% of the economy. And believe me when I tell you that 100 cranes is a hell of a lot of cranes in one spot. To add to that, one cannot go ANYWHERE in Tehran without seeing a construction site within 50 meters of where you are standing. I mean it has gotten so bad (with the construction noise and dust and traffic) that we decided to move out to a suburb of Karaj (Iran’s second largest city, larger now even that Mashhad), only to see that it is just as bad over there, and actually “worse” – buildings sprouting up like mushrooms. Mashhad is experiencing an even greater boom, as is Qom. I don’t know about Esfahan, Shiraz and Tabriz, but I imagine it is the same there. Zanjan and Hamedan are also going crazy.

    So Sanger is just a fluffer. No revelation to you, I am sure.

    Unfortunately, I fear that the unprecedented boom will become a huge (housing) bubble which will burst if the economy is not managed properly.

    Meanwhile, one of the items in the the 6 o’clock news just now was that life expectancy in Iran has risen (again) to 73 years (74.4 for women and 72.1 for men). We also had some very significant military announcement and unveilings this week, which is hafte-ye defa’-e moqaddas (the week in which the Sacred Defence is commemorated). These included an advanced drone, equipped with advanced optics, yes, but also with four guided missiles – a first for Iran. The other was the announcement that the air-force has been able to equip its jet fighters with Qader missile integrated with its avionics. They also mentioned that an SQ-170 analogue would be unveiled “soon, God willing”. And of course, the Bavar-373 is close to the production stage. All these are very significant, and very good news for the Islamic Republic. No wonder Barry “White” O’Bummer was anxious to meet our president and hurried to get him on the phone before he left when he was told he would not be given an audience ;o)

  589. Persian Gulf says:

    M.Ali

    You are wasting your time. He is obviously a crackpot.

  590. Fiorangela says:

    two more books, part of the ‘western canon,’
    brought to mind after listening to Juan Zarate on C Span this morning

    St. Augustine of Hippo, “The Confessions” http://www.ccel.org/ccel/augustine/confess.txt

    especially:

    Chapter IV

    Theft is punished by Thy law, O Lord, and the law written in the hearts
    of men, which iniquity itself effaces not. For what thief will abide a
    thief? not even a rich thief, one stealing through want. Yet I lusted
    to thieve, and did it, compelled by no hunger, nor poverty, but through
    a cloyedness of well-doing, and a pamperedness of iniquity. For I stole
    that, of which I had enough, and much better. Nor cared I to enjoy what
    I stole, but joyed in the theft and sin itself. A pear tree there was
    near our vineyard, laden with fruit, tempting neither for colour nor
    taste. To shake and rob this, some lewd young fellows of us went, late
    one night (having according to our pestilent custom prolonged our
    sports in the streets till then), and took huge loads, not for our
    eating, but to fling to the very hogs, having only tasted them. And
    this, but to do what we liked only, because it was misliked. Behold my
    heart, O God, behold my heart, which Thou hadst pity upon in the bottom
    of the bottomless pit. Now, behold, let my heart tell Thee what it
    sought there, that I should be gratuitously evil, having no temptation
    to ill, but the ill itself. It was foul, and I loved it; I loved to
    perish, I loved mine own fault, not that for which I was faulty, but my
    fault itself. Foul soul, falling from Thy firmament to utter
    destruction; not seeking aught through the shame, but the shame itself!”

    – – –
    compare and contrast Augustine’s ch. IV with Deuteronomy 6, esp.

    ““And when the Lord your God brings you into the land that he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give you—with great and good cities jthat you did not build, 11 and houses full of all good things that you did not fill, and cisterns that you did not dig, and vineyards and olive trees that you did not plant—and when you eat and are full, 12 kthen take care lest you forget the Lord, who brought you out of the land””

    – – –

    “Danaa” is an Israeli Jewess who comments on Mondoweiss.
    She recently posted this on a Mondoweiss tag-along site:

    “you are falling into an intellectual trap waiting for those who won’t or can’t bring themselves to draw a sharp line between what passes for “Jewish culture” in the US and what Israel actually is. Far from built on some so-called enlightenment “Jewish” values (which, as you know, I dispute are all that “Jewish”) , israel is, foundationally, a supremacist nation. The country, from its founding, latched onto that strain in the Old testament that justified Joshua conquering the “Promised land” and putting its inhabitants to the sword. From infancy, the first value absorbed by children in Israel is that they are superior to others, not jewish, and that it is the envy of such superiority that caused and causes the gentiles to look askance at them. – Danaa
    The “jewish culture” of israel is a myth methodically built and nurtured by the state founders. It is a fake culture because it is mythical – it was invented for the occasion of conquest and is nearly completely based on the perceived inferiority of others. Every single event, celebration, commemoration is so built. Every historical fact, occasion or utterance is twisted to fit the narrative. Israel is a state made entirely of PR, where a big chunk of that PR is that you, Sean are forever doomed to be a secondary human. You may aspire to be “first class” but at best, your efforts will be seen as quaint. – Danaa ”

    = = =

    Zarate, who, if I am not mistaken, was educated in Catholic schools, has also “fallen into an intellectual trap” that the zionists have set and furnished with every sort of emolument from luscious pears to careers in the public eye and plump book contracts. So seductive is that trap that he, and many like him. are willing to steal all the pears they can carry, and call the act virtue.

    When Hillel said, “What you would not have done to you, do not do, that is the whole law, go and learn it,” he certainly did not have in mind a literal reading of Deut. 6, as granting a right and entitlement to steal pears from a neighbor’s tree.

    As Danaa said, zionists debased Jewish scriptures.

    Zarate debases Jewish AND Christian AND Catholic scriptures.

  591. fyi says:

    ToivoS says:
    September 28, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    The most plausible interpretation of these events that Axis Powers and Iran are contemplating a cease-fire and not strategic accommodation. This makes sense after the failure of their planned war in Syria to materialize due to opposition of the Barons as well as the English people.

    In regards to your hunch about an agreement having been reached on the nuclear file, I agree with you.

  592. M.Ali says:

    Persian Gulf, I agree. He really discusses things exactly the way Sasan would. I’d slowly go on every point, try to source every single thing, try to make it fact based, and I’ll get in response, is random stuff.

    Its just a shame, because its Iranians like Sasan and Smith that do most harm to Iranians, with their illogical rantings, because there is no middle ground to improve our country with them. At least with a republican American hawk, you know where they stand. With an Iranian like Sasan and Smith, they are under the illusion that they are actually HELPING their country. Thats scary.

  593. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 29, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Who is Sassan? Anyways take your meds for OCD. You are sick. I can also compare you with Rigi, both working like terrorists against Iran. It is not only you who can compare people, you see. As I said, Iran is drowning in prostitution, adultery and sex trade. This is the truth.

  594. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Another example of Smith’s addiction to big round (and made up) numbers.

    “Saddam used nearly 3000 ballistic missiles against Iranian cities.”

    -http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/missile.html

    “Iraq is believed to have fired 516 SCUD-type missiles at Iran during the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s.”

    “Ballistic missiles have very poor accuracy specially in longer ranges.”

    Wrong. -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xh_kFgXEfY

    In wargames multiple missile types accurately struck their target area. At 3:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SV8VvEyn9A. Satellite imagery of this area also exists showing vast majority of missiles hit within the target area.

  595. Smith says:

    The average age of Iran’s prostitutes is between 12 to 25 years old as per Iranian sociology professor who has studied the phenomenon of prostitution in Iran. You heard it right. 12 years old girl has to sell herself and satisfy the society’s sickness: http://www.fardanews.com/fa/pages/?cid=104548

    I did not want to bring these things up. But certain arrogant and ignorant people force me to lay it open here.

  596. Smith says:

    As per Iranian sociologists, Iran is drowning in prostitution, mostly because there is not one to take care of women at risk: http://ebrat.ir/?part=menu&inc=menu&id=3785

    It is bad. Real bad.

  597. Smith says:

    fyi,

    The root cause of Iranians lying: http://life.shafaqna.com/shafaq/item/15246

  598. Smith says:

    Iranian sociology university professor: There are now 300,000 prostitutes in Tehran alone, some as young as 11 years old: http://ettelaat.net/06-01/news.asp?id=11742

  599. M.Ali says:

    Stop saying things like “this is the truth”. Back up your “truth”

    Can you backup your 1000 percentage increase claim?

  600. Smith says:

    ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:
    September 29, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    That is wrong. Scud was not the only ballistic missiles Saddam against Iran. He also used variety of others such as Frog-7.

    And the ballistic missile have poor accuracy, specially those at the hand of Saddam and the ones Iran is producing. There is no denial in that.

  601. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    And here are more facts to dispel the ongoing attempts by some to deny Iran’s capacity to defend itself.

    Mass production of Sejil TELs.

    -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgnLTrR_5vI TELs are obviously brand new. Gives a good idea of the production capacity, and the large number of Sejil 2s that are being mass produced and deployed.

    Sacred Defense parade. Thirty TELs divided between Sejils and Ghadr Hs (A type that has never been displayed before). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V38BPY1UkA4 Obvious that both types are fully operational and exist in large numbers.

  602. Smith says:

    Sociology studies of Iran: 76% of prostitutes hired is by MARRIED men: http://www.entekhab.ir/fa/news/69893

  603. Smith says:

    University female students sell their body every night in order to pay tuition in Iran: http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/128966

  604. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Just keep ignoring actual video evidence that proves you wrong. And your attempts to invoke FROG 7s are not going to work. Iraq did not have 2500 of them or anywhere close to that. If you had actually done research before you made your claims, you would know that and you would know that trying to compare 70’s era SCUDs to Iran’s missiles today is completely pointless.

  605. Smith says:

    Men who hire prostitutes are safe from the police. Only women are harassed by the police and accused of being prostitutes: http://fararu.com/fa/news/61166/%D8%B2%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AE%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A-%D8%AD%D9%82%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%83%D9%87-%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%85%D9%8A%E2%80%8C%D8%B4%D9%88%D8%AF

    Another attempt at womb control.

  606. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Here is the Fateh-110 Fourth generation. Same basic technology is used in the Persian Gulf Anti-Ship missile which can strike moving targets.

    -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkkX3JL76b0

    Persian Gulf missile

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiwdzU5elGc

  607. Smith says:

    ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:
    September 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    It is you who do not know anything. That video is doctored. It proves nothing. Rest assured that ballistic missiles are very inaccurate by nature. And their cost per tonne of explosive delivered is so high that using them as conventional weapons is impractical. Even saddam reached that conclusion since his missile attack on Iran had no effect but the price he was paying he was paying for them was high. And that is why still the richest and technologically most advanced nations still keep air forces. You are clueless and ignorant.

  608. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Unknown Unknowns says:
    September 29, 2013 at 10:55 am

    “These included an advanced drone, equipped with advanced optics, yes, but also with four guided missiles – a first for Iran.”

    Examining the footage below reveals there are at least 4 generations before the most recent one. What this demonstrates is, contrary to claims by many, Iran does not immediately reveal its most advanced projects and they are often in an advanced stage of development or mass production before they are unveiled.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQDKWCMljs

  609. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I think you are mistaken in believing Obama will refuse to accept any Iranian enrichment of uranium. That I think he has signalled he is willing to accept low-level enrichment hardly makes me a “liar”.

    You claim to know the future?

  610. M.Ali says:

    Smith ,you are now posting everything related to prostitution, completely even ignoring that some of them are AGAINST your own original arguments.

  611. Smith says:

    Iran’s Parliamentary committee saying that denying the huge problem of prostitution in Iran will not help in solving it and future will be disastrous: http://www.magiran.com/npview.asp?ID=2179031

  612. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    So in other words, you cannot present actual evidence of your claims, unlike me, so you argue that we should just believe you without question. That is not how things work in the real world.

    “And their cost per tonne of explosive delivered is so high that using them as conventional weapons is impractical.”

    Wrong. As I have previously stated Iran can build 50+ missiles for the cost of a single fighter jet. Those missiles can wipe out an entire airbase, as actual footage proves. Thus they are more cost effective in actual reality, not using calculations about “cost per tonne” that ignore what the actual target of those missiles is (among other things).

    “That video is doctored. It proves nothing.”

    Prove it.

  613. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    It is debunking your lies. Are you not ashamed by denying that there are 300,000 prostitutes in Tehran some as young as 11 years old? Are you not ashamed by trying to brush under the rug that the average age of prostitution in Iran is now 17? Are you not ashamed trying to protect the evilness that most of the prostitutes in Iran are now between 12 to 25 years old? And these are statistics of Iranian university professors. You know what, you pathological liars are beyond help. As I said, go and take your meds for OCD. It helps with your lying addiction.

  614. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I can assure you I have a sound understanding of the strategic situation in the Middle East. I wonder sometimes whether you do, given your apparent confidence Iraq is a guaranteed stooge in pursuit of “Shia Power”.

  615. Smith says:

    ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Oh, the evidence is overwhelming. It is you who has to prove otherwise, since it is you who is claiming that Iran has reached such a technological level: http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2012/12/27/an-overhyped-threat-ballistic-missiles/

    Ballistic missiles are extremely cost ineffective compared to air force. If you can not comprehend this simple fact, it means you are completely ignorant. The reason, Iran is doing it, is because Iran’s air force is almost dead and Iran does not have the technology to revive it and no body is selling fighter planes to Iran.

  616. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You also appear to contend Iran will proceed to build nukes and there is nothing “the West” or “Axis Powers” or “P5+1” can do to stop it. I think you are simply dead wrong.

  617. Smith says:

    Huge competition between married men who bid on bodies of Iranian girls every night: http://www.enekas.info/?p=28886

  618. Smith says:

    Latest sociological studies show that the age of prostitution has fallen down to 10 years old (that is right, you heard it correctly, 10 years old girls are forced to sell themselves on streets): http://s-ghasedak.blogfa.com/page/fahsha.aspx

  619. M.Ali says:

    Smith
    “September 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    It is debunking your lies. Are you not ashamed by denying that there are 300,000 prostitutes in Tehran some as young as 11 years old? Are you not ashamed by trying to brush under the rug that the average age of prostitution in Iran is now 17? Are you not ashamed trying to protect the evilness that most of the prostitutes in Iran are now between 12 to 25 years old? And these are statistics of Iranian university professors. You know what, you pathological liars are beyond help. As I said, go and take your meds for OCD. It helps with your lying addiction.”

    Smith, what has shame got to do with Truth?

    Why do people like you talk in so much cliched jargon?

    What has any of your new points got to do with your initial claims?

    Your initial claims were that there were increase of prostitution by 1000. You have not proven that, yet you call ME a liar. How am I liar? What have I lied about?

    Please point out ONE sentence by me that is a lie.

    Just one.

    Go on, find it.

    Copy and paste it.

    Whatever I said, I’ll try to source it.

    We never discussed age of prostitutes. This has nothing to do with 1000 increase.

    I mentioned in my initial discussion that the reason its useless to talk to people like you because you guys wander on in unrelated topics. You mentioned a percentage, which instead of proving or at least admitting that it is wrong, you are throwing every random fact about prostitution you can find.

    And then you call me a liar. I’ve never denied prostitution in Iran. I havent even yet given my own opinion on prostitution, but you are so insane and confused, that you are ranting like a crazy person and just imaging my arguments for me.

    Again, I repeat, you made THREE POINTS. Please don’t additional points to them, until you are MAN ENOUGH to prove your FIRST point, which is the increase of prostitutes by 1000 percentage in 3 decades.

  620. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    You just linked to an article that provides absolutely no proof of any of its claims whereas I just proved every single one of mine with video evidence. You still need to provide actual proof, rather than claims in an article that are not in accordance with reality. As a matter of fact, I believe I previously debunked a number of the claims in that article already some time ago when it was linked by Hack.

    “Ballistic missiles are extremely cost ineffective compared to air force. If you can not comprehend this simple fact, it means you are completely ignorant.”

    Just repeating this statement does not make it true. You still need to provide actual evidence rather than unproven claims not supported by reality.

  621. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2012/12/27/an-overhyped-threat-ballistic-missiles/

    A useful comment on that article that corrects its flawed and ignorant assertions.

    “Mr. Farley, I think you have set up a technological straw man. The 50 year-old SCUD class SRBM is an obsolete weapon. This class of weapon becomes something entirely different when equipped with a maneuvering re-entry vehicle (MaRV). Using technology demonstrated by the radar guided MaRV on the Pershing II of some 40 years ago, the Chinese have taken the lead with the DF-15 class SRBM and the much touted DF-21D MRBM to produce a very powerful class of weapon with meaningful operational if not strategic effect. Similar to the diffusion of the precision guided Tomahawk class cruise missile a increasing number of countries will able to build MR/IRBMs with MaRV payloads. I note that even Syria appears to possess the M600 series SRBM, variant of an Iranian precison guided SRBM.”

  622. M.Ali says:

    Anyway, Smith, our buddies here are right. You are just too much of a crackpot to talk too. While you continue posting random tidbits about Prostitution in Iran, I’ll wait until you prove your first claim of 1000 increase in prostitution in 30 years.

    Until you do that, there is no point talking about any other points, because you’ll just ignore everything else, and talk about something else, and in a few posts, you’ll wander off and talk about drug use, White Man Rape Fantasies, and other unrelated subjects.

    So, unless you can prove your 1000 percentage increase (THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!!), there is nothing else to talk about.

  623. Smith says:

    M.Ali,

    Go and take the meds for you OCD. You are a liar. Just a few comments above, you were saying that Iran is all paradise. There is no prostitution. The only prostitute who was living near your house is now retired or dead. Shame on you. If you can not feel shame for your lies, go and read the article I posted on root cause of lying by Iranian sociologist which I posted above.

  624. Smith says:

    The evil destroying Iran’s culture and society, with sexual assaults (of course liars are going to deny that and the poos poos morality police is going to force all women to wear pitch black clothes all the time): http://javanpress.ir/?p=13063

  625. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    “Oh, the evidence is overwhelming. It is you who has to prove otherwise,”

    No, I already provided evidence for all of my statements. Thus the obligation is now on you to provide actual evidence for yours. Just making an assertion like you just did is not a substiture for providing it. You must either show my evidence is false or you concede (whether or not you admit it) that my argument is correct.

  626. James Canning says:

    Brian Williams of NBC News told his national audience in the US that Iran has “suddenly” claimed it does not want nukes. Surely Williams knows this statement on his part is false, and surely Williams intentionally deceived his viewers.

  627. Photi says:

    Smith’s orders from his bosses this week must be to make Iran look as weak as possible, and to alienate as many people of conscience as he can with his talk of prostitution. the fewer people who care about iran, the easier it is to get a war started by the belligerent forces. smith is a demagogue-for-hire, d anan ineffective one at that.

  628. Smith says:

    Oh, yes. The situation with morality is now at worst in Iran’s 7000 years old history: http://www.iran-emrooz.net/index.php/news1/38637/

  629. Smith says:

    All the evidence I provided on the issue of morality and prostitution were from Iran’s university professors, researchers, Iranian parliament, Iran’s police etc etc. As can be seen, the situation is really bad. Denial only will make it worse. The first step to solve a problem is to accept its existence. Perpetual lies so frequent in Iranian culture will not help.

  630. Photi says:

    oh yeah, and by making the Iranians out to be liars, no agreement with them can be trusted, is this the reasoning, Smith?

  631. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Pay attention here:

    There is nothing that Axis Powers or Israel or P5+1 can do to prevent from building and fielding nuclear weapons if her leaders believe that is necessary for the security of the Iranian state as well as other members of the Shia Crescent.

    This is understood – I suppose by now – by the Axis Powers planners, Russian and Chinese leaders as well.

    Now, they can react to Iranian overt nuclearization but there is nothing, repeat nothing, that they can do to reverse that.

    Strategic accommodation with Iran is still possible but that requires for US to agree to all Iranian nuclear activities within the NPT overtly.

    Covertly, the United States has to tell Iran that “You live in a tough neighbourhood, we understand that you want to build nuclear weapons and that is fine by us.”

    Once these steps are taken, the rest will follow quickly:

    Both Iran and the United States are interested in maintaining the free flow of oil as well as commerce to and from the Persian Gulf

    Both Iran and the United States oppose the expansion of the neo-Salafi and assorted other Sunni extremists in Near East in Afghanistan

    Both the United States and Iran are opposed to any one extra-regional state dominating Central Asia

    Both the United States and Iran are interested in multiple energy pipelines crisscrossing Near East

    Now: While no one expects US to give anything away, she must be also be willing to discuss the disposition of the West Bank and the Al Haram al Sharif.

    The alternative to the scenario I sketched is just a delay of many years filled with more war and more blood shed until we get back to this scenario.

    Incidentally, be advised that the Barons in EU have zero leverage with the major players in the Middle East now – they burnt their bridges and do not have any diplomatic prowess left.

    This is now between the United States and Iran.

  632. M.Ali says:

    Smith, please back up your statements,

    ” Just a few comments above, you were saying that Iran is all paradise.”

    I never said this. Please reference my statement.

    “There is no prostitution.”

    I never said this. Please reference my statement.

    “The only prostitute who was living near your house is now retired or dead.”

    I never said “near my house”. I said my hometown, which has a population of only 20,000 people. I live in Tehran.

    “Shame on you. If you can not feel shame for your lies, go and read the article I posted on root cause of lying by Iranian sociologist which I posted above.”

    Prove one of my lies. You are putting random statements in my mouth, which I never said. I NEVER said Iran is paradise. I NEVER said there are no prostitutes.

    You LIED by saying there was 1000% increase in 30 years, which you didn’t back up. I can copy and paste your statement PROVING you mentioned it.

    I never said there was no prostitutes, so I can’t be lying.

  633. Smith says:

    ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Oh, you provided nothing except lies and a fake video.

    NATO dropped near to 6,500 tonnes of bombs on Serbia in 1999.

    US dropped 88,500 tonnes of bombs in Iraq in 1991.

    Ballistic missiles are useless without nuclear weapons as can be seen from these numbers.

  634. fyi says:

    Photi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Mr. Smith is largely correct.

    A decade ago I heard the figure of 75,000 prostitutes in Tehran – a city of 10 million people.

    And I do not have any issue with the links to various Iranian discussions on social pathologies in the Islamic Republic.

    Furthermore, the observations about the Lie in Iran – however much one describe its historical origin – is also truthful.

    Which bring us again to a core issue facing Islam for several hundred years:

    Choose Truth or Choose Outward Islamic Piety.

    For centuries, Iranians chose “Outward Conformance to Islam” as a sign of Piety, preferring it to Truth.

    England chose Truth.

  635. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    You are one sick liar. Go and read your comments above. And take your meds for God’s sake. It helps with your lying habit.

  636. Smith says:

    Photi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    This is an internal Iranian issue. Keep out of it. I am teaching my compatriots self criticism and how to be truthful. And do not worry, Iran will kick your white butt if you ever try to do some foolish thing.

  637. M.Ali says:

    Smith, copy and paste my lies please. Thanks.

  638. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    It depends on what you plan on doing.

    Most of the airplanes in current usage are meant to support joint air-sea-land operations which requires high mobility and precision in support of ground troops as well as ships.

    Since Iran’s military doctrine has moved away from using large land forces, she does not require a large air force and various classes of missiles can the be utilized to deliver explosives where they are needed most.

    It is also clear that the Iranians have moved away from defensive posture to an offensive one; Iran is supposed to absorb multiple hits while launching offensive operations.

    I think if Iranian missiles have the precision to destroy Riyadh’s water desalination plant across the Persian Gulf, Iranians will have then reached a comfortable place.

  639. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Right, the only one lying here is you by claiming something is “fake” without proving it. I will continue to call out your lies and failure to provide proof for your claims until you actually provide some. Until you do, you have admitted you cannot actually provide any proof and as such your argument fails.

  640. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    “The only prostitute I can remember ever being mentioned for the last two decades, was one old nomad living in the outskirts of town. She apparently has either retired by now or is dead, I’m not sure, but that’s at least 100% decrease in prostitution in the last few years!”

    100% decrease? Huh. It means there is no more left mathematically.

    You are a joke. A liar.

    Take your meds.

  641. Smith says:

    ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    As I said, above you are ignorant. Go and read some books and learn some knowledge. A fake video does not prove anything. Iran’s missile forces are inconsequential strategically. Without nuclear weapons that is.

  642. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU-jan,

    Zafaraniyeh-Mahmoudiyeh-Elahiye: 28-30 million toman per square meter is the going rate these days.

    200 m2 X 30,000,000 = 6,000,000,000 toman.

    M Ali,

    You’re doing a great job “discussing” things with genius. Remember deep down inside he’s jealous of you cause you are getting laid (with all due respect to your honorable spouse) while there are whores and street orgies all around him and he’s just left standing holding the short end…if you know what I mean.

  643. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    That is the Israeli estimate as well.

    On the other hand, Admiral Shamkhani stated publicly a few years ago that if Iran is attacked by Israel, she will be saying goodbye to Dimona.

    I tend to take him seriously.

  644. Photi says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    The issue is not prostitutes, Smith is trying to make Iran look bad to the western audience, and he is also trying to make Iranians themselves think low of their own culture. Old game of identity politics. Can you name a society where prostitution does not exist? young girls and women get trafficked and hired for their services everywhere, it is a global issue brought about by the human condition. For Smith, the issue is also about ‘controlling the womb’ which is just another way of saying he is playing a game of identity politics, where he is trying to de-legitimize the established order in Iran. The issue of human trafficking and exploitation should not be used as a wedge to spoil detente between Iran and the US.

  645. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    That is right. But all that it proves, and I have been saying is that these are useless strategically. They are useful as weapons of terror eg. as you said hitting desalination plant. But militarily, they would not be able to strike mobile militaries. They impart no support to Iran’s ground troops for instance as ballistic missiles can not be used for air support.

    At any rate, I do not think that US will ever completely occupy Iran. They will most probably occupy Iran’s shores specially Khuzestan and Bushehr, while keep bombing Iran from the air for months dropping a million tonnes of bombs on Iran’s infrastructure. And the only way to deter this is by having nuclear weapons, as a couple of hundred missiles will not be able to deter them, even if Iran hits desalination plants. The industrial capacity of white man is too great and these things will be rebuilt in no time, while water if necessary will be imported by cargo planes and ships. Similar is with oil.

  646. Photi says:

    Smith, do you make a distinction between prostitution and seegha/muta?

  647. M.Ali says:

    Again, Smith, lets see,

    ““The only prostitute I can remember ever being mentioned for the last two decades, was one old nomad living in the outskirts of town. She apparently has either retired by now or is dead, I’m not sure, but that’s at least 100% decrease in prostitution in the last few years!”

    100% decrease? Huh. It means there is no more left mathematically.

    You are a joke. A liar.

    Take your meds.”

    I’m talking about my hometown only.

    My statement started with,

    “My hometown’s population is 20,000 according to the last census. During the Shah’s time, there used to be at least one bar. I would say that there was probably one prostitute back then in our hometown. With a 1,000 increase, we should have 1,000 prostitute now. But, we don’t. We actually have NO prostitute, Trust me, I ask around. ”

    So, obviously, I’m not talking about full of Iran.

    I used 100% increase only related to my hometown, not full of Tehran.

    And my statement is true.

    If in the last decade there was one prostitute, and then that one prostitute is dead or retired, than that IS a 100% decrease.

    But again, I’m talking about my hometown.

    Which has only 20,000 population, where everyone knows everyone.

    I live in Tehran.

    I did not claim that there are no prostitutes in all of Iran/

    I did not claim Iran was a paradise.

  648. A-B says:

    O God, please save us from the assorted Don Quixote’s who designate themselves to protect us – from sex/orgies/adultery/prostitution/rape they can’t even differentiate – in their shiny white condoms .. I mean armors!! (sorry :-)

    And let us not be fooled by the words of Murderers who desperately try to hide their claws dripping with fresh [Syrian] blood while licking it off their lips; lips grinning the grin of the Exceptionalist. But let us invite them! Apparently, they were FORCED to change their ways after being exposed.

    And save us from the Opportunist [assorted eurotrash and ruskies] that played the game/role of the Exceptionalist as long as they could benefit from it, and now pretend to be ‘moral’, ‘law abiding’, ‘democratic’, while they are as false as those Greek fantasies they nurture. [golden ‘dawn’, eh? Stinks like ancient urine to me!!] Let us [do business but] never ever trust their kind!

    Oh, BTW, I just heard (on CNN) an “Eye-rainian terrorist” was apprehended in ‘Israel’ allegedly wanting to attack the American Embassy (!!!! ROFL!!!!). AND this is conveniently before Nuttiyahoo’s scheduled clownery at UNGA on Monday. Thank you, Lord, for making these one-trick-ponies such incurable MORONS! And, thank you, for the smile on my face.

  649. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    I certainly hope he was right. But that statement is old. With the advent of modern missile defense shields popping up around Iran, situation is getting serious. It was in the news that Turkey is trying to buy Chinese copy of S-300 PMU2 air and missile defense batteries. Israel has installed missile defenses. Situation is changing.

  650. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Iran needs a deal with the P5+1 and such a deal will include supending enrichment to 20. No winking at Iran’s building nukes. Where do you get such an idea? Cordesman?

  651. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU-jan,

    Concerning “cancellation” of the conference due to “political considerations”, well now you know how we felt during Rafsanjani-Khatami era.

    Hassan Abbasi once responded to the hayvan Michael Ledeen threatening Iran during Khatami admin. in a public uni program. Our own intelligence min brought him in for “questioning” khak to sareshoon nafahma-ha.

    Now imagine being in the frontline during the war and certain gentlemen in Tehran deciding they’re not going to supply you with what you need to fight the invaders- for “political considerations”.

    Welcome to being a mokhless follower of Ahlul Bayt (as).

  652. Smith says:

    Photi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Mutta is not prostitution. It is MARRIAGE. Are you a salafi? There are alot of white people who are turning up salafi nowadays and only a salafi would ask such a question.

  653. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Yes, I agree.

    The current US posture against Iran only brings the day of Iran’s overt nuclearization that much closer.

    If she recedes to an over-the-horizon posture, Iran can postpone overt nuclearization.

  654. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    That is so right. Lying to “save” Islam. So pathetic.

  655. James Canning says:

    On McLaughlin Group this past week (PBS TV in the US), Mort Zuckerman and Pat Buchanan debated the UN/Iran issue. Zuckerman, the billionaire pal of Netanyahu, argued against any Iranian nuclear programme, while Buchanan argued in favor of Iranian enrichment to low levels.

  656. M.Ali says:

    Bussed in Basij, have you notice how much these guys talk about sex? Sasan used to do the same thing. All his posts were about rape.

    You think these western Iranians would have gotten out of their system by now.

  657. Smith says:

    M.Ali says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    Again, you are so full of lies. I posted a dozen links from Iran’s sociology experts doing real on the ground research on the issue, proving that Iran has a huge prostitution and sexual assault problem. You on the other hand are lying here without providing any evidence of any sort.

    As you yourself said, you have OCD. Take your meds. It will help with your compulsion to lie, perpetually.

  658. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Rest assured that Iran will deal with p5+1, the same way that DPRK dealt with 6-Party Talks.

    I have told you what strategic understanding with Iran means and implies.

    If you think there is any other alternative to the scenario I sketched out, then you are delusional.

    In fact, I am afraid, that my scenario is a bit too generous; Iranians might not find it acceptable.

  659. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Funny you call me ignorant and you are the one who fails to present proof. Where is that evidence that shows the video is “fake”? I presented several videos, not just one that proves my statement. You have presented nothing. At this point it is obvious you have no evidence to support your claim. Continuing to make a claim like you do without presenting proof makes you appear ignorant since you are making a claim without facts or evidence that supports it.

  660. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Yes, that is true. The thing is, now certain elements in Iran are trying to appease US and think this way, they can live their luxurious life and continue their trades in Dubai and Europe which has become difficult for them because of sanctions. Today, Iran’s foreign minister has issued a statement that Iran accepts the cult of Shoah.

    I believe this is temporary. Before no time, the glitter will die. The fate of Rouhani is going to be worse than Khatami.

  661. Photi says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Smith,

    It was a legitimate question to which you gave me an answer. The question is legitimate because those who like to denigrate the Shia equate muta to prostitution, even some (Western) Iranians. Establishing operative definitions is hardly Salafi (or anti-science for that matter). Other people on this board would probably view any monetary quid pro quo for sex and companionship as at least a form of prostitution, if not enshrined in a lifelong marriage. The Shia are unique (as far as i know) in practicing a pleasure-seeking, time-bound marriage.

  662. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    UU-jan,

    I think that a condition for normalization of relations with US or any other country and Iran is that that country extradite all you have committed terrorists acts against Iran and who reside in the country.

    That means that US would have to hand over some of these taghuti ex-officers and certain unnamed Fox News analysts and…before anything else. What’s good for the US is good for Iran, right?

    Germany would have to hand over Abdul Rahman and France would have to hand over Maryam-jooni and sycophants and etc…

    Do you think Jay-Z (Javad Zarif) has the balls to bring that up with John and Laurent and whoever will be the FM of Germany next? What? Precisely, I doubt it as well.

    Did we ever doubt that Mahmoud-jan or Dr. Jalili had the balls to mention this matter?

    Well, if some will say that it’s not important I would tell them to say that to the mothers, widows and orphans of those killed by these people enjoying lives of leisure in LA, Paris and Cologne- but they wouldn’t have the balls to do that either.

  663. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Just like the United States, Iran is also under pressure from her allies in Syria, in Lebanon, and in Iraq to take a different tack with Axis Powers.

    For example, that shattered Iraqis – however much they hate US, EU, Saudi Arabia – are keen to sell their oil in peace and re-build that which has been destroyed since 1980.

    Likewise, Syrian state needs to prevent a wider war so as to destroy the anti-government forces.

    South Korea, India, Japan, Sir Lanka, South Africa are all hurting due to sanctions on Iran – they need some respite.

    Since Axis Powers have retreated on Syria, Iranians can afford to retreat on some by-now insignificant part of their nuclear program.

    I think the high hopes of Axis Powers commentators for capitulation on the nuclear issue and those of Iranians for elimination of the economic war against them will be disappointed.

    The reality of the situation will be somewhere in between.

    The losers are of course are already clear: Turkey, EU, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Muslim Brotherhood.

  664. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali,

    I know, I told him at the very beginning when he entered our lives that he should get off his ass and go gain some real world experience- you know for example like falling in love with cute girl or getting laid- or ideally both at the same time with the same person within a temporary or permanent marriage.

    It really changes everything, but like his idol he’s only comfortable within the parameters of his very active intelligence without interruptions from real people and real events to challenge that inner peace.

    I feel sorry for him.

    Thank God that He gave us balanced lives and lovely people to share it with.

  665. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    “With the advent of modern missile defense shields popping up around Iran, situation is getting serious.”

    Nothing wrong with those missile defense systems right?

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-missile-defense-still-plagued-technical-doubts-111855073.html;_ylt=AhAntjwNnXwdIZmNubmQFT3OfMl_;_ylu=X3oDMTRocGpvamM0BG1pdAN3b3JsZCBzZWN0aW9uIG1peGVkIGxpc3QEcGtnA2NhMDkzMTZkLWFmMTctM2RlMy1iM2MzLTU4ZWMyYTQxOGU3OARwb3MDMjYEc2VjA01lZGlhQkxpc3RNaXhlZExQQ0FUZW1wBHZlcgNkZTA3YmNlMC1jM2E3LTExZTItYjdiYy0xYTZiZTU2NzIxZGQ-;_ylg=X3oDMTFqaTU3a3RoBGludGwDZ2IEbGFuZwNlbi1nYgRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAN3b3JsZARwdANzZWN0aW9ucw–;_ylv=3#d1mylxz

    “there is no sign that “any of the fundamental unsolved problems associated with high-altitude ballistic missile defenses have been solved,” wrote professor George Lewis, a physicist at Cornell University and Theodore Postol, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in a 2010 report.

    The Pentagon’s tests only offer “the appearances of success,” according to Lewis and Postol, as the trajectory, the timing of the launch and the type of missile being fired are all known in advance”

    Whoops, wrong again.

  666. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    I agree. Though you forgot one more loser: Rouhani.

    I predict that he is going to be a one term president, under best conditions. In worse condition he is going the way of Bani Sadr.

  667. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think your comments are a bit vague. Are you claiming that Iran can make a deal with P5+1 that enables Iran to get close to ability to build nukes quickly? Yes or no.

  668. Smith says:

    ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:
    September 29, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Those are technical glitches overblown by the press. There is one thing that you should know about west is that they are very good at solving technical glitches. Iran remains at risk. Even Russia thinks missile defense is detrimental to its power. So again you are ignorant.

  669. ExposingNeoConWarmongeringStooges says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    I notice you still have not provided any proof for your previous statements and have now added another unproven one to the list. Feel free to actual provide proof any time…

  670. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 29, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Again you fail to understand what has been going on:

    Since 2006, Iran has possessed all the elements needed for the construction of nuclear weapon.

    The Axis Powers first tried to eliminate any such Iranian capacity and having failed on that, they moved to trying to increase the time it takes to build a nuclear weapon.

    In that they had the help of Russia and China in their jealous determination to maintain their nuclear monopoly.

    The P5+1-Iran talks are now at the level of deciding the units of time for such nuclearization: weeks or months.

    Strategic accommodation with Iran means that the above discussion becomes moot.

  671. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    How many North Koreans do you think would flee their country, if they could? Five milion? Ten? Some role model.

  672. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 29, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Irrelevant.

    Any way, you can open your borders to all Iranians who wish to emigrate, why don’t you?

    Iranian government never tried to keep Iranian citizens from emigrating.

  673. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I can see Iran has no need to be in a position to attempt to build nukes quickly, if it makes a deal with P5+1. Which you call “strategic accomodation”.

  674. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I have never suggested Iran tries to prevent emigration.

    North Korea, however, has a very strong programme to prevent emigration. For obvious reasons.

    I think Iran is much more likely a target of mass immigration. Into Iran. No out.

  675. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    UK and US have significant numbers of Iranians. As you know, of course.

  676. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    September 29, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Again, US has to assume an over-the-horizon military posture vis-à-vis Iran; that has to wait after strategic accommodation.

    The current talks, the end state of which is likely already determined, are not strategic.

    There are 3.5 million Afghans living and working in Iran; in peace and tranquility.

  677. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    So basically they want a Libya deal with Iran. As you had said earlier, they want to keep Iran backward and scientifically/industrially neutered. This is the worst thing that can happen to Iran. Sanctions will never be lifted. And new sanctions will be implemented for human rights, cow rights, cat rights and rat rights.

  678. Karl.. says:

    With views like this that is close to what POTUS thinks..:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/world/middleeast/big-challenges-remain-despite-progress-on-iran.html?pagewanted=all

    I cant understand that some people think obama now will make peace with Iran. Time to wake up..

  679. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Robert Fisk in the Independent reports:

    “The Free Syrian Army is holding talks with Assad’s senior staff
    Secret approach to the President could reshape the whole war”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/a-syrian-solution-to-civil-conflict-the-free-syrian-army-is-holding-talks-with-assads-senior-staff-8847615.html

  680. Castellio says:

    UU, good to hear from you, and thank you for your link to the English publications. I use it, and I appreciate it.

    I’ve been visiting the site recently to read how the Leveretts might evaluate the situation, and I am anxious to read their current thoughts. Generally, I’m afraid, I am no longer engaged with the comments. I think the reasons obvious: there is only so much time in the day, and the ratio of real information/ genuine debate to repetitive posturing is too low.

    There are many serious questions to be posed, worthwhile conversations to be had, and useful discoveries to be shared. Whether it is at this site or through other means, let us continue in that spirit.

  681. fyi says:

    Smith says:
    September 29, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Correct, this is their official position.

    Even the suspension of 20% enrichment is viewed by them as the first step of suspension of all enrichment.

    Again, I do not think Iranian leaders are unaware of this.

    But with the election of Mr. Rouhani, Iranian leaders have to demonstrate to the Iranian people that “heroic flexibility” would get them nothing.

    It does not hurt them internally or externally to display “heroic flexibility” – to the Iranians as well as those populations living in the Shia Crescent.

    Per chance, they could get something out of Axis Powers in terms of reduction in sanctions; or helping the Syrian government by participating in Geneva II.

    Axis Powers, over the last 35 years, have been successful in preventing the emergence of industrialized Iran.

    There is no reason to expect them to change that policy now – that policy was not initiated because of nuclear developments in Iran.

    Again, I come back to the record of what they accomplished in Iraq from 1991 to 2003 – they de-industrialized that country and destroyed everything that had been built since 1960 in Iraq.

    They would not even let Iraq import sewage treatment equipment; “it is dual use”, they claimed.

    In fact, the initial offer to Iran was helping Iran develop skills in “Environmental” issues.

    Like when in the 1950s that US aide to Iran also consisted in improving the breed of donkey that Iranians had; they Americans began importing donkeys into Iran from Cyprus – rather than teaching Iranians how to design and build small internal combustion engines.

    In World War II, when Germans entered Russian and Ukrainian villages, they would routinely execute any male who could read or write – even barely. For their long-term plan was to turn these people into slaves for the master race; they wanted to make sure no one could emerge who could read and understand anything except verbal orders of the Masters.

    Likewise for Iranians – they are not to learn nuclear technologies, biomedical ones, internal combustion engine etc. and be forever dependent on the largess of their betters – the Exceptional People residing in the Exceptional Country.

    Rest assured that as long as Mr. Khamenei is steering the ship of state in Iran, that will not happen.

  682. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    One can safely say that if Tony Blair died tomorrow, most of humanity would cheer…what a god-damn piece of shit he is.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/obama-eat-your-heart-out-tonytravels-in-style-on-blair-force-one-8847619.html

  683. Persian Gulf says:

    fyi says:
    September 29, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    “A decade ago I heard the figure of 75,000 prostitutes in Tehran – a city of 10 million people.”

    where did you get this number? this is obviously very exaggerated. if you lived in Tehran for a bit in that decades (as I did) and interacted with people in the streets, you would have noticed that this is a sheer lie.

    Some Iranians often tend to exaggerate numbers. They often don’t have a sense of numbers I would say (2009 election fiasco comes in mind. even from people with Ph.D. degree in science and engineering).

    I still hear that California has between 2 to 4 million Iranians, and they really mean it. Last year that a friend talked about similar number, we search in internet and 169,000 was the biggest number we found for California.

    I remember I used to hear about 500 thousands Iranians living in LA. When I first visited LA few years ago, I could do anything but laugh at that number. LA at the time had about 5 million. That many Iranians living there meant almost out of every 10 people you see in the streets, one should be Iranian. My street observations in those days could easily refute this. however, people like “kooshy” should be able to tell us more about it.

    we say in Farsi:

    لاف که کنتور نمی اندازه که!

  684. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think you are mistaken in your apparent belief Obama will refuse to accept Iranian enrichment to 5%.

    I think he comprehends Rohani could not agree to an end to all enrichment.