Hillary Mann Leverett on America’s Real Strategic Failure in Iraq

Hillary appeared on CCTV’s The Heat to discuss President Obama’s decision to order U.S. airstrikes against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS); click on the video above or here.  In her segment, she focused on the deep causes and historical antecedents of America’s current policy crisis in Iraq.

“President Obama is now the fourth U.S. president in a row to order military action in Iraq, which some refer to (I think accurately) as the ‘graveyard of American ambition.’  That’s the big strategic picture here—that, regardless of what we bomb, how much we bomb, this is the graveyard of American ambition.

The invasion of Iraq, the continued occupation, and, now the blowback that we’re receiving puts the United States, I think, in a dire strategic corner.

–If we bomb, we are likely to galvanize Sunni Muslims across the Muslim world, not just in the Middle East.  It’s not going to be everybody, but we’re likely to galvanize a strong recruitment tool for the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

–If we don’t bomb, we could face a really serious confrontation in or around Erbil, where the United States has thousands of people—not just in the American consulate and all of the associated U.S. government agencies there, but a lot of businessmen, from oil companies and other places.

So we’re really, I think, in a serious, if not dire strategic corner.”

As Hillary explained, America’s broader strategic failure in Iraq has its own deep roots and historical antecedents—which are, in turn, inextricably and causally related to the rise of ISIS (which, since the end of June, has been calling itself simply ad-dawla al-islāmiyya—“the Islamic state”).

“It’s a problem the United States has had for decades, and it’s a bipartisan buy-in by the foreign policy elite here in Washington:  first, training the Sunni Islamist militias in Afghanistan in the 1980s, to oust the Soviets, and then in more recent times the Bush administration’s strategy, what was called the ‘surge,’ was really about arming, funding, and training 80,000 Sunni Islamists inside Iraq.  And then President Obama, on his watch, armed, trained, and funded Islamist militias in Libya and so-called ‘moderate’ opposition in Syria

We have been, over the years, pursuing these policies that have been not only counterproductive but, in recent history (the past three years), have fed upon themselves.  So we’ve destroyed the state in Libya, opened it up to an Islamist internecine militia battle zone; same thing in Syria, and we’ve continued to turn a blind eye to that happening to IraqThese three battlefields, in a lot of ways, are melding together, the fighters are melding together.  ISIS is not made up of primarily or overwhelmingly Iraqis.  There are Chechens from Russia, there are Uighurs from China, there are Saudis, there are Tunisians, there are lots of other nationalities there.

So this idea that we are constantly presented in Washington, that if Prime Minister Maliki were just more inclusive, this wouldn’t be a problem, is really strange on its face.  There is no government in Iraq, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki or anybody else, who could be more inclusive of a terrorist organization that has significant foreign fighters within it.  That just can’t be.  [And, of course, ISIS also has] a great deal of money, and U.S. weapons that they’ve either confiscated or they were given indirectly by our so-called ‘allies’ in the Gulf.”

Responding to what is becoming part of Washington’s current conventional wisdom—that Obama’s “failure” to use force in Syria and his politically-driven reticence to re-engage in Iraq have conditioned ISIS’s rise—Hillary points out that this argument depicts on-the-ground dynamics in a manner diametrically opposed to on-the-ground reality.  By doing so, it precludes sober consideration of the real requirements for a political solution.

“There’s a lot of focus here in Washington on how the president’s failure to bomb the Syrian military last year, in 2013, led to this increase in power of ISIS.  It’s really just the opposite.  The Syrian military was one of the few armies battling ISIS on a daily basis.  If we could actually change the focus here—and it’s something that many Americans cannot even conceive of, because of the political narrative laid out principally by the White House that the Syrian government is irredeemable—if we could possibly change that and see what our interests are (which is that the Syrian government is fighting ISIS), that could…could open the door to talk to inconvenient but essential players, like the Syrian government, like the Iranian government, that have a lot of keys to the solution here.”

More broadly, Hillary argues that the idea of putting American “boots on the ground” in Iraq again is not just “politically untenable” for President Obama; this idea reflects a mindset—about using military forces to micromanage political outcomes in non-Western countries the United States wants to subordinate—that, strategically, “has failed us going all the way back to Vietnam.”  As she elaborates,

“It has failed us in Vietnam, it has failed us throughout the Middle East, in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We have a proven track record of that not working to achieve strategic objectives.

While I would agree that the United States has to be very engaged in the Middle East, very engaged in the world, the idea to be ‘interventionist’ is very, very problematic, particularly in the Middle EastIt has not worked for us; we have a proven track record of failure in that regardWe need to step back and not say, ‘Qadhafi has to go, Assad has to go,’ and now, ‘Nouri al-Maliki in Iraq has to go.’  Instead, we [should] recognize that’s the Iraqi government.  It’s certainly not perfect; no government is.  We agreed to sell them F-16s and Apache helicopters, attack aircraft, so that they could take of some of these problems themselves, and then we withheld them because [al-Maliki] wasn’t doing what we thought he should be doing politically.

That’s not going to work.  I agree we should support governments that are there and sell them arms as other countries do, but to try and manipulate and micromanage political outcomes has failed us over and over again.”

Because—contrary to presidential candidate Barack Obama’s rhetoric in 2008—the Obama administration has not rejected this profoundly self-damaging mindset, it is facing massive strategic failure in the Middle East.  The administration is not, as many of its critics charge, simply responding to one crisis after another.  In reality, Hillary notes,

“Many of [these crises] are self-generated—in large part because of the administration’s strategic failure in responding to the Arab Awakening, principally in 2011.  President Obama had a new shot when he came into office, and I think repeatedly has failed to put together a coherent strategic plan, outcome, for looking at the Middle East.  We get focused on these day-to-day problems, as horrific as they sometimes are, without thinking about the strategic picture.

So the pressure, for example, to try to force Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki out has just made him turn to Russia—which, literally overnight, doubled the aircraft we had given IraqNouri al-Maliki has gotten much closer to the Iranians.  And now you hear Iraqi government officials say those [Russia and Iran] are their real friends—because when they needed it, when they were asking for airstrikes against ISIS, the president, the Obama administration was withholding them until [Iraq] had a more ‘inclusive’ governing policy.

This is not a strategy, either for the Middle East or for the United States in the world, as we see power shifting from the west to the east, and we see critically important countries in the east—whether it’s China, India, or Russia, Iran or Iraq—because the United States is so antagonistic to all of them, they are aligning togetherThat is something that is not going to turn out well for the United States.”

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett


145 Responses to “Hillary Mann Leverett on America’s Real Strategic Failure in Iraq”

  1. James Canning says:

    In contemplating the catastrophe in Syria, my mind goes back to 2008 and Israel’s failure to make peace with Syria during the negotiations sponsored by Turkey.

  2. BiBiJon says:

    Depends what meaning of IS is!

    Is it a mistake, washed, rinsed and repeated for 3 decades, that now qualifies as something we habitually do, so might sas well call it a strategy? Or, is it a boneheaded strategy that keeps bearing ugly fruits?

  3. nico says:

    Interesting short 2012 video providing a glimpse in neocons and other cold war warriors minset.

    “We Need a False Flag to Start War with Iran!” From WINEP lobbyist.

    Interesting to note that false flag event and creating military tension through such tactic is typical in US history and recognize as such by US elit.
    Interesting to note that false flag events or military actions to kill civilian for political purpose is assumed and proidly so by warmongers…

    One can only wonder about the Iranian flight shot down over the PG by the US.
    At least it provides the mindset necessary to carry out the firing on the flight shot down over Ukraine more recently.

  4. Jay says:

    A little bit of both plus an added ingredient.

    It is a mistaken goal with a boneheaded strategy !

  5. Jay says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 11, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    Last message was for you.

  6. James Canning says:


    Ukrainian separatists shot down the Malaysian airliner last month, by mistake.

  7. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    August 11, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    The “in my opinion” in parenthesis says it all!

    You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.

    Intelligence document revelations demonstrate that your opinions do not comport with the facts.

    Refusing to accept the facts as they are leaves you with one option — psychosis!

  8. Karl.. says:

    “in my opinion” uk practice its colonialism again.

  9. James Canning says:

    Those seeking a better understanding of Angela Merkel’s role in the effort to resolve the Ukraine crisis, would do well to read Quentin Peel’s comments in the Financial Times today.

  10. James Canning says:


    True or false: Obama and his generals were reluctant to intervene militarily in Libya.

  11. fyi says:

    Mr. Cannings:

    In 1918, Germany was still in occupation of parts of France and Belgium.

    Her navy had sustained enormous losses – that is true, but the fabric of German life was intact.

    4 years later, during the hyperinflation of Weimar Republic, her social fabric was shredded; she became the playground of the rich – many of them foreigners from US and UK.

    US and EU aimed at nothing less than reprising the Weimar hyperinflationary experience in Iran and inflicting massive and dislocation social damage on Iran.

    That Iranians had been preparing for that for a decade or longer and could mitigate the effects of that siege warfare from destroying their social cohesion and coherence does not detract from the seriousness of danger that they had faced.

    A navy can be rebuilt, a nation’s coherence cannot be so quickly repaired.

    As is, US and EU failed in their war aims – and thus they went back to the negotiating table.

  12. James Canning says:


    As I have noted many times, there are aggressive “supporters” of Israel who want Iran hurt in any way possible. To “protect” Israel. However, the EU is not the “enemy” of Iran, and the purpose of the sanctions was to limit Irans nuclear programme. Not to “destroy” Iran.

  13. James Canning says:


    I recommend “Washington’s sketchy pro-Israel/anti-Iran camp””, by Ali Gharib (online today at Lobelog.com).

  14. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    August 12, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    “As I have noted many times, there are aggressive “supporters” of Israel who want Iran hurt in any way possible. To “protect” Israel. However, the EU is not the “enemy” of Iran, and the purpose of the sanctions was to limit Irans nuclear programme. Not to “destroy” Iran.”

    Surely all powers ploting and stoking the flame of the Iran-Irak conflict was for Iran or Irak good.
    You are a sophist. Rooting many of your sophistries in decontextualization of historical and political perspectives.
    That enmitiy goes back tl the revolition that is pretty obvious.

    As flr more recent events about the nuclear dossier from 2010 forward.
    It has been proven time and again that the case has been fabricated.
    That is the definitoon of plotting and (real) conspiracy.And that is the mark of sure enmity.

    As a last comment, the key words is RESPECT.
    The west is respecting nobody beyond themselves.
    As per the enlightment hubris they deem they afe the only at the acme of civilization.
    Read no further than “The End of History” from Fukuyama.

    The kind of hubris and arrogance fully embedded deep in your own bone.

  15. nico says:

    As a side comment you could put as much credence in the US claim about the MH flight shooting as the Iranian fabricated claims and evidence in the nuclear file.
    Nothing New.

    Your are an idiot.

  16. ForStrat says:

    That guy Cedric was the biggest numpty I think I’ve ever heard. God help the US if that’s the best it can do for analysts.

  17. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 12, 2014 at 2:03 pm

    NATO has decided to wage geopolitical warfare across a vast geographical and civilizational landscape at the expense of the well being of its citizenry.

    NATO could not be all of the following at the same time:

    – Be a great economic power
    – Be a great military power
    – Protect its population against the vagaries of the global market

    Her leaders have decided to drop the third item – across the European Union and the United States the same logic is prevailing – I suggest you get out of San Francisco and go to Brooklyn.

    Or go to the LaGuardia or JFK Airports.

    Or drive across Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania all the way to DC.

    Or take a trip to Madrid or Athens.

    The choice is made and the die is cast …

    And for what?

    Truly Men are in the State of Fall…

  18. James Canning says:


    Military spending by most Nato countries has steadily declined in recent years.

    Your points appear to include the fact the sanctions against Iran do a good deal of economic damage to EU countries and the US. Very true.

  19. BiBiJon says:

    Synergy, symbiosis, cooperative interaction

    Agog at the implication of what I read today over at Lobelog. Folks who stand to gain in their gold and silver investments because of their prediction that the Dollar will not be worth the paper it is printed on once the Mid East is in flames, or conversely and equally true, who are betting against the US, her economic power derived and closely linked to the value of the greenback, use their multi-billion DOLLAR fortunes to cause havoc in the Mid East.

    So, if Wallace and billionaire-philanthropist Thomas S. Kaplan are so adamant that turmoil in Mid East, especially a confrontation with Iran is going to make the Dollar nosedive, then by their own reckoning they are equally sure that a stable ME, with rapprochement with Iran as a keystone of that stability, would save the Dollar; would be good for the US, and anybody else who is invested in $ backed assets, i.e. pretty much most of the planet.

    Why I am so intrigued, is because US justice department is in effect helping UANI to carry on hurting the US economy so that a bunch of private individuals get to collect on their financial bet against the Dollar. Amazing!

  20. BiBiJon says:

    Synergy, symbiosis, cooperative interaction

    Agog at the implication of what I read today over at Lobelog. Folks who stand to gain in their gold and silver investments because of their prediction that the Dollar will not be worth the paper it is printed on once the Mid East is in flames, or conversely and equally true, who are betting against the US, her economic power derived and closely linked to the value of the greenback, use their multi-billion DOLLAR fortunes to cause havoc in the Mid East.

    So, if Wallace and billionaire-philanthropist Thomas S. Kaplan are so adamant that turmoil in Mid East, especially a confrontation with Iran is going to make the Dollar nosedive, then by their own reckoning they are equally sure that a stable ME, with rapprochement with Iran as a keystone of that stability, would save the Dollar; would be good for the US, and anybody else who is invested in $ backed assets, i.e. pretty much most of the planet.

    Why I am so intrigued, is because US justice department is in effect helping UANI to carry on hurting the US economy so that a bunch of private individuals get to collect on their financial bet against the Dollar. Amazing!

  21. fyi says:


    Winners of 2014 Fields Medal (on par with the Noble Prize):


    Please note the non-Muslim/bad-Muslim Dr. Maryam Mirzakhani.

    She joins another non-Muslim/bad-Muslim by the name of Mrs. Shirin Ebadi.

  22. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 12, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    The NATO states have imposed costs on the global economy as well as their own as they are escalating against Russia as well.

  23. Smith says:

    Thankfully she is no more in Iran to be beaten up for having not worn proper hijab to a university party in honor of her thesis ten years ago: http://www.math.harvard.edu/graduate/graduation_spring_2004/index.html

    Her womb is no more under the control of rapist muleteers. She saved herself and her intellect by leaving Iran for United States.

  24. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 12, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    And also one should not be surprised that a cargo cult nation even in the age of internet search engines would not give up on its insistence of womb control. See the top Google search for Maryam Mirzakhani: http://oi59.tinypic.com/2llj809.jpg

    One then wonders why no innovation comes out of Iran.

  25. Smith says:

    Global Innovation Index 2014 by World Intellectual Property Organization is out: http://www.wipo.int/export/sites/www/freepublications/en/economics/gii/gii_2014.pdf

    Please note that Iran is ranked 120th out of 143 countries, sitting comfortably below Mali and Honduras and just above Zambia.

    After all when a nation loses all its brains, this becomes the result.

  26. Smith says:

    Does Iranian culture have any equivalent concept to Kaizen?

    Or all it can do is produce muleteers?

  27. James Canning says:


    Yes, EU countries incur (or will incur) significant costs, as a result of sanctions being imposed against Russia

  28. Smith says:

    Let’s not even mourn her loss.

    Great as it is. Irreversible and irreparable as is.

    You see she was not Iranian to begin with. Mistakenly she had been born into this cargo cult nation. Mistakenly.

    West adapted her. As always happens with gems in undeserving filthy cargo cult nations.

    Cargo cult is now even more pure (filth) than even before. More unthinking. More unknowing. More unquestioning.

    What has come of Iran in the past 800 years except filth? Why should we expect anything else for the next 800 years?

  29. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    August 12, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    In fact, Dr. Abdu Salam was also a non-Muslim; being an Ahmadi.

    And some one tried to kill the late Naguib Mahfuz since he was declared to be a non-Muslim/bad-Muslim in certain circles.

  30. fyi says:


    List of Jewish Winners of Noble Prize:


    A book by that title had been published during the reign of the late Shah in Iran; it was quickly banned.

  31. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 12, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    The more I see, the more I have started to see what Aaramesh Dostdar says. And that West is truly unique and unmatched.

    Dr. AbdusSalam had to fled Pakistan, despite his love for the place.

    Cargo cult does not tolerate thinking and questioning. It just allows a monkey level of existence. Not suitable at all for original thinkers and questioners. Cargo cult will never go beyond simplified assembly lines and their banana centered lives.

  32. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 12, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    Rest assured that it will fail to move the cargo cult rapist mofo muleteers. They are incapable of rational thought processes.

    I had asked a question here and none had the courage to answer it. The question was; Why over 1.5 billion Muslims invent/discover/innovate in a couple of centuries less than what Jews or even alternatively a small town in Switzerland do in a couple of months?

    No courage. No brain. No integrity. Only the urges of rape.

  33. Smith says:

    A medicine invented by Canadian and American researchers for Ebola virus disease is being rushed to field by WHO: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28754160

    The virus had already been discovered by West too.

    The cargo cult nation of Iran had, has and will never have anything to offer in similar situations (except filth of course). Such is the reality.

    West is unmatched. Unparalleled. You gotta admit it. They even take in a little Iranian girl and allow her to breathe, grow, question, think and discover. A little girl whose brain if she had stayed in Iran, would have gone down the toilet.

  34. Fiorangela says:

    Who is financing ISIL?

    If Islamists hate Israel so much, why hasn’t Israel been attacked?

    Is ISIL working on behalf of Israelis, who have been very active in Kurdistan for a decade and more, to separate Kurdistan from Iraq?

  35. BiBiJon says:

    Fiorangela says:
    August 12, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    Saw this link in MoA comments


  36. Jay says:

    For the record, Iranian scientists living and working in Iran have won international recognition for their inventions. Exaggerations to the extreme may be good for “getting something off ones chest”, but they rarely engender credibility of any kind.

  37. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    August 12, 2014 at 1:13 pm
    “Jay, True or false: Obama and his generals were reluctant to intervene militarily in Libya.”


    feel free to credit others with some degree of education and intelligence! This is a “trap” question for a first grader….please.

    Let’s try to unpack this. Obama gave an appearance of reluctance in public. However, Obama created the circumstances that provided the basis for intervention and argued for “humanitarian bombing” in the UNSC. If actions speak louder than appearances, then Obama had no reluctance intervening.

    Some of Obama’s generals were reluctant. The reluctance was tactical – not strategic.

    I realize that you have no facts to use – other than meaningless mainstream propaganda – to argue your case. So, I look forward to your one-liner diversion.

  38. masoud says:

    Moderators should ban Smith on the same grounds as the ban on Scott Lucas, which has, mercifully, held up over the years.

    Smith, the forum you are looking to comment on is Stormfront. Take your buddy with you. You’ll both have plenty of kindred spirits.

  39. Amir says:

    Smith says:
    August 12, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    These questions have been asked since two centuries before, and probably you are familiar with the discourse and its eventual embodiment in the Constitutional movement roughly 100 years ago. Since the very early days of this process, there were people like Taghizadeh who believed West has an “essence”, unique to itself and there is no way we could become like them, unless we copy them “from head to toe” (or something to that effect, my English is not very good, but you get the whole picture). I have met people who had some achievements but were so ashamed of their identity and nationality that they felt they were born in the wrong country; now, I could argue that if they were born in the US they wouldn’t be able to pursue an academic career free of charge and it was a possibility they would have a second or a third job just to pay the bills, but that’s not my point.
    My point is if history teaches us anything, it’s that nothing has to remain the way it is. China was a great power, it declined and recovered several times, and now it’s rising again. There is no reason it would remain this way. Europe was a jungle once, and now it’s not.
    So, we are all aware of these shortcomings, but let’s be honest; the trend in developing countries, including countries with Muslim majorities, Iran being one of them, is encouraging. We are not there yet, but it doesn’t mean we have to think we will never get there. For a very rough estimate of what has been going on in Iran during the past twenty years visit: http://www.scimagojr.com/countrysearch.php?country=IR. How much of this is actually useful to Iran would be a different story.
    The bottom line, as the Leader has stated time and again, we MUST KEEP THE MOMENTUM. There are those who would love to belittle us, but I have seen enough to understand the flaws in their arguments.

    I don’t expect you to agree with me on this one, but I’m telling others here: don’t despair, we could do it. We must do it.

  40. Smith says:

    Amir says:
    August 12, 2014 at 11:44 pm

    You do not know what you are talking about. If you were not lying, I would have said, you are sweet. But then your lies are too big.

    The problem is you are and have been copying West for couple of centuries now like a cargo cult. But you are no more better than a couple of centuries ago.

    The sjr data is useless. It is another “head to toe” copy. You print a few useless and meaningless articles which contain nothing new, no new questions and no new data then self cite and cross cite with your friends, and you think, you have mastered the creative cycle of science? Is that it?

    Let me tell you something. You are clueless what is going on here. It is about generation of new knowledge, we are talking about here. Hell, you can not even copy properly. You incapable of even copying the image processing FPGA of a MRI, let alone the entire machine. You have miserably failed to copy all the medicinal molecules Iran needs. Whatever industrial sector that remained in Iran is budging under corruption of cargo cult.

    You are aware of nothing. Not even of your immediate surrounding. You do not have the mathematical, engineering, medical, …. brains capable of original thinking and able to solve Iran’s problem.

    Name me five new discoveries/innovation/invention in each field that have come from Iran in the past five centuries. You cant. There are none.

    You know the reason why?

    Because in Iran, one is not allowed to think. One is not allowed to question. One is not allowed to argue. This has been the case for thousands of years.

    And believe me, if Iranian nation do not address the why of these questions, there will be improvement, regardless of that “momentum”.

    Why an Iranian girl leaves Iran, and in a couple of decades become the only woman in the world who has won the math equivalent of Noble prize? Why an Iranian girl/boy is incapable of doing so inside Iran? What is it that is stopping them? You? Muleteers? Cargo cult? What is the mechanism of action? What is the pathology?

    What good has come out of Iran in the past 800 years?

  41. Pouya says:

    James Canning,

    I have news for you, the purpose of everything the West has done in the past 35 years has been to destroy Iran. Just because Iran was able to do what Ira

  42. Pouya says:

    James (continuing on my comments)
    …Just because Iran was able to do what Iraq has not been able to do, namely keeping its territory together, it is not proof that there was not intension to obliterate Iran. In fact, the evidence is overwhelming.

  43. Amir says:

    Smith says:
    August 13, 2014 at 12:48 am

    I’m not in a position to argue with many of your statements; innovation is important, and frankly lacking in many of our projects. About self-citation, you could have checked that database, which provides the actual figures for self-cited articles, and I’ve got to say Iran’s figures are not really bad; they could have been better, but they aren’t like what you said (in 2010, self-cites versus cites, per article are 1.83/5.91 for Japan, 1.75/4.33 for Iran, 4.48/8.95 for the US and 2.40/9.04 for the UK). You say Iranians fabricate data; so do Japanese, Americans and South Koreans. You say Iranians cite their friends’ articles; so do Europeans, Americans and other people.
    We can argue a lot about this, and again I don’t deny all you said, some of it is indeed worrying and needs to be addressed; my point is even if nothing good had come out of Iran in the past 5000 years, there’s no reason it would stay that way.
    And about the woman who has won that medal, actually you are building a case against your argument; she is the first female recipient of that medal, EVER (like EVER)! If West is in fact such a great place for female scientists, how come no other woman had been able to win this award (medal)?

  44. Smith says:

    Amir says:
    August 13, 2014 at 6:39 am

    You still are not getting it. Maybe because assembly line monkeys can not see beyond the banana. Iran is just copying useless and negative aspects from Japan and US or EU. Does your numbers for instance include citations by your friends both in Iran and in say Syrian universities. What is the break down of citations? How many citations for example you get from Japan and vice versa? And what is the going rate nowadays for an article and say 3 guaranteed citations in Tehran academic bazar? How many articles are being written that way?

    Now let’s go back to your copying from Japanese. If Japanese do crap (which you should not copy by the way), at the end of the day, they also come out with thousands of new inventions, innovations and discoveries. How many inventions/discoveries/innovation did Iran produce with its supposedly “superior” self-citation situation in say 2013? How many Japan did? I would appreciate the numbers. Not the fabricated ones of course. The real ones please. It would also be helpful if you told us, what amount of Japan’s GDP then was generated by those inventions/discoveries/innovations and what amount similarly in Iran? Does monkey assembly line have any conditioning manual for handling such situations? I guess not.

    Americans do fabricate numbers. Oh, yeah. They fabricate. But then for some reason, they also invent the most, discover the most, innovate the most, in the world and even adopt an Iranian girl and give her a home and a life and a kid and let her discover the pleasure of venturing into unknowns of mathematics. Can Iran return the favor? Can an American girl, ever hope to go to Iran and study, learn, wonder, think, question, discover, publish and go about as the Iranian girl does in US? I guess not. Now, it is well known that maths has always been an area in which the girls used to under-perform. That is why this Iranian girl is a rarity. Both in Iran and outside. And that is why her loss only proves even more that something is terribly wrong in Iran. So wrong that no world class mathematician (even if she is a girl from supposedly Islamic country) can stay and function in. She has to move out and settle down with an American in order to blossom.

    Yes, we can argue alot. At the end of each argument, you are going to lose. Because you have nothing to show for. Nothing. Absolutely. West is great because a great mind born anywhere in the world, whether in slums of Sudan, or the filth of Iran can move there and live/discover life without having to worry about muleteers. The same can not be said about Iran. Or Sudan for that matter. If you were an educated human, you would have known that every university text book in the world is Western or closely associated with it. Iran’s contribution is none.

    And no, there is no reason to believe that if something has not happened, it will. It is a logical fallacy. It is the logic that used to be applied before we had science. It is the logic of the magicians of pre-historic period. If something has not happened, the causes should be searched for it. Mechanisms should be developed to explain why it has not happened.

    As I said, you are clueless. And you are even incapable of understanding the very basic things.

  45. Smith says:

    Note to Iranian scientists:

    Japanese scientist that supervised an article with fabricated data in it committed suicide: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28658269

    Copy that. If you have the balls.

  46. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 12, 2014 at 11:44 pm

    The late Mr. Taqizadeh’s statement that Europe is unique in itself – a Kantain statement – is accurate.

    But his prescription was unworkable, for Muslims as well as other non-Western polities.

    However, one can learn from others and adopt and adapt their inventions, processes, or approaches.

    Ancient and Middle Persian were written in scripts first developed in Mesopotamia.

    Guns and gunpowder were adopted from Chia – as well as the technique of Persian painting and color motifs of ceramics.

    And there is no shame in learning.

  47. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    August 13, 2014 at 12:48 am

    On the positive side, at least the Iranians and the Turks have started…

    Others are still asleep.

  48. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 13, 2014 at 8:54 am

    Yes. There is still a small flicker of hope left. A few are battling alot of muleteers. It will be years, before Iran will know what was lost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOtj7VxbFMk

    The likes of Dr. Saba Valadkhan. I wish, one morning we wake up and find out that all muleteers have finally died. The cargo cult is no more. And Iranian nation has transformed into a creative society that cherishes scientific values. Though personally, I do not think I will ever experience it. Such are the odds. Such was our “fate” of making of our forefathers/foremothers.

  49. thecelticwithinme says:

    The problem is that everything is about winning or losing without regard that EVERYTIME humanity takes violet action against itself, we all lose. The technology developed in the west was developed with the availability of virtually (we thought) limitless resources and with the idea of conquest in mind. There was always over there. But the world IS round and over there has become over here and everywhere else. U.S. citizens are treated no different than third world citizens, just with a lot of added distractions.

    For all the good and wonder that has come out of Japan, nothing beats its contaminated scrap metal, just ask South Korea. It’s a small world after all. And getting smaller.

  50. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    August 13, 2014 at 9:02 am

    I think England is an excellent example of what happens when late Medievalism is mated to a ruthless empiricism grounded in brutal indifference of Nature to Man.

    Instead of dissipating themselves in promoting religious Utopia; they directed their energy to the problems of here and now.

    The Utopians, went to America….

  51. fyi says:

    thecelticwithinme says:

    August 13, 2014 at 9:42 am

    There are no shortages of anything; that is a canard.

    For example, there has been a 50-year scrap iron cycle, from smelting to its re-melting and usage in a new product.

    Likewise for many other items.

    Third World?

    It starts at Iran Pakistan border and end at Chinese border.

    Korea is not a Third World country although it does not conform to the standards of public and private transparency and rule-of-law prevalent in a place such as Denmark.

  52. Amir says:

    Smith says:
    August 13, 2014 at 7:39 am

    Comm’on! I didn’t get your first paragraph at all! Half of citations for publications from US institutions in 2010 were self-citations, whereas the same figure for Iranian publications is smaller than 0.5 (according to JCR). How is that related to Syria, I don’t get it.
    And I agree with the part you talk about inventiveness; we should go that way too. You are saying Iranians are stupid and can’t do it, but I merely say don’t be so sure.
    By the part about data fabrications I meant there are instances of fabrication everywhere, as you mentioned that Japanese scientist (though he hadn’t fabricated the data; he was coordinator for another firm, but he felt the name of that private firm had been tainted); I thought it was obvious.
    And about the part regarding that Iranian mathematician, I asked why didn’t any other woman win that award before? It has been going on since 1963 I think. Maybe Iran isn’t holding back women, but a male-dominated scientific arena?
    And I don’t take these arguments that much personally… for me it’s not about losing; I can’t say the same for you.

  53. Ataune says:


    The “Axis power” achievements in the field of “information” might be what Iran or others lack with their soft-power, at least partially. But, the way Smith is magnifying this and purposely voiding anything that Iranians or other Muslims have accomplished so far is the worst service one, in an individual level, can do for the goal s/he is claiming to promote…if this is the objective at all. The way this character is agitating is a poor imitation borrowed to those professional activists in the service of states. Which I believe YOU consider to be truly in a “State of fall…”

  54. Smith says:

    Amir says:
    August 13, 2014 at 10:29 am

    Well, if you can not understand straight forward sentences then it is not my fault. And you should be ashamed of yourself citing me as having said Iranians are stupid. I never said that. What I said is that internally Iranian environment/culture/etc is such that it promotes muleteers rather than scientists. Such as yourself.

  55. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 13, 2014 at 9:54 am

    We do not have either. We only have cargo cult.

  56. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 13, 2014 at 10:02 am

    Every thing is comprised of three “essence”. The material, the energy that molds that material into that thing. And finally the design, which is product of a thinking mind.

    Iran has one of the largest energy reserves in the world and in addition is full of raw material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Iran#Production_statistics

    The only thing that is lacking is the thinking mind.

  57. Rehmat says:

    “US war on ISIS has nothing to do with the saving the lives of Christians, Kurds and Yazdis. It all boils down to a regime change in Baghdad by scaring the hell out of Iraqi lawmakers. Prime Minister al-Nouri’s forces were defeating the ISIS rebels in the area which are strategically important to the US and Israel,” Pepi Escobar says in Op-Edge at RT on August 12, 2014.

    A few months ago, former US vice-president Dick Cheney admitted that US invaded Iraq for oil and Israel.

    A great majority of Americans brainwashed by the Jewish-controlled media will never know that it is some of the top neocons like Jews William Kristol and Fred Kagan, who are pushing Obama administration to invade Iraq for the third time as they did in 2003 based on lies provided by Israel.


  58. Rehmat says:

    On Monday, United Nations Humana Rights Council (UNHRC) named a panel of three legal experts to investigate possible war crimes committed by the Jewish army in Gaza Strip.

    Tel Aviv, however, rejected the enquiry as UNHRC “kangaroo court”.


  59. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 13, 2014 at 10:30 am

    I do not condone Mr. Smith’s tone but I understand it as a reaction to his frustrating experiences in Iran.

    There are Iranians who are publicly calling for the scrapping of the Iran-140 airplane manufacture in Iran in the light of the recent crash of one such airplane (out of 2 in service.)

    They are calling for the state to purchase airplanes from abroad – instead of developing them in Iran.

    That is, these Iranians wish the state to purchase airplanes from the enemies of Iran.

    This is not exactly “cargo Cult” but it is more akin to a fool’s paradise.

    And most likely men such as Mr. Smith who can do something concrete are marginalized because “they cannot get along to get along”..

    Iran is fortunate that Axis Powers oppose her existence as an independent power; quaint notions of the centuries past is being broken inside her population as US and EU teach the Iranian people how to fight.

  60. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    August 13, 2014 at 11:12 am

    When one looks at Korea and Japan, with no natural resources to speak of, then one wonders why such a vast and bountiful country as Iran is not 10-times as wealthy as either Japan and Korea.

    Now, it is true that those two satrapies were show-cases of the Axis Powers but not all of their success could be so attributed.

    If you look at IEEE publications, there are very many technical articles authored by Japanese – most of them with MS degrees and not Ph.D.s.

    Time to read “Mikado Nameh” again.

  61. fyi says:

    Rehmat says:

    August 13, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Who cares what UN says any more; may be Africans, but I do not think UN is relevant any more.

  62. James Canning says:


    I can assure you that Boeing would welcome a rich and powerful Iran, able to buy many hundreds of airliners.

    You obviously can comprehend that Iran in effect threw away huge amounts of soft power, and in that way needlessly weakened itself in recent years.

    EU is not trying to “destroy” Iran. Yes, some very rich and powerful “supporters” of Israel and its illegal colonisation programme in the West Bank, would like to se Iran smashed around a bit.

  63. Amir says:

    Personally, I believe self-loathing Iranians who are ashamed of themselves so much that they wish their country never existed pose a much greater hindrance to Iran’s progress, than let’s say muleteers.
    Dear muleteers! I have heard your call and I’m willing to do whatever is in my power to further your cause. Don’t despair!

  64. James Canning says:


    The notion the US supports Isis is nonsense.

  65. James Canning says:


    FACT: Obama and his generals were reluctant to intervene militarily in Libya. The record shows this and surely you are aware of it.

    If you are trying to argue that Obama could have blocked the Franco-British intervention, this appears to be true.

  66. James Canning says:


    You appear to argue that the EU wants to deny Iran the respect Iran deserves, and in that way the EU is trying to “destroy” Iran. Correct?

  67. Ataune says:


    So you are saying the Smith character is just the expression of the frustration, and this is the main explanation for his acerbic and destructive tone toward Muslims? I do not think venting-out frustration in a blog can help others to understand and reflect.

    On the IR-140 incident, you are correct, this sad news shouldn’t discourage Iran from pursuing the development of a self-sufficient aviation industry. But don’t you think that an assembly line based on a Boeing or Airbus craft kits is more beneficial than one based on an Antonov… I know this is not happening anytime soon for all imaginable reasons, but just for the sake of the answer. Even manufacturers like Embraer, catching up rapidly with their American-European counterparts and politically more approachable, are much preferable in this case, although again the driving emphasis should stay making this industry indigenous as rapidly as possible.

    I do not think that people living on the Iranian plateau need anyone to “teach” them how to defend themselves. Political entities have managed to survive on the plateau for thousands of years despite being on a unique gateway under constant movement of population. If anything, the current Anglo-American policy of economic and financial embargo, by most accounts failing her objectives, is strengthening this millenarian resolve, not “teaching” them how to fight…

  68. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 13, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    I think it will be a good idea to think through all those people with missing teeth; an inexpensive and durable solution that could replace the existing solutions developed in US would be quite welcome; the kit is $ 2000 and the crown is another $ 750.

    Or consider atherosclerosis which is a consequence of aging but not everyone gets it – a reliable test for who would or would not get it is most welcome.

    Bi-polar disorder, among other things, seems to be deeply related to sugar metabolism in the body – certainly it could be a fertile ground for research and a lot of work is there for everyone in the world to do.

    Slogans will not get one there – the dominance of Axis Powers for the last 400 years is not based on raw military power.

    In India, during the Raj, there were no more than 10,000 Englishmen in all of India – yet they ruled.

  69. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 13, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    The Antononv-140 is an excellent platform to start learning airplane manufacturing; in my opinion. It is small and it is based on turboprop engines which do not require the precision of turbines.

    And since no one else was willing to collaborate with Iran – not Embraer, not Fokker, not Bombardier and not anyone else, there was really no choice for Iranians.

    The airplane also is quite suitable for intra-Iranian travel given the distances involved.

    Large-scale plane manufacturing, in my opinion, is beyond the capacity of Iran in any foreseeable time table – not even in 3 generations (60 years).

    Once could look at the experience of Japan and China – they have not been able to scale up to 150-seat passenger airplanes.

    US, Russia, and EU are the only ones capable of doing so; Russia may no longer have that capacity.

    Fighting is not only about weapons;; it is about being able to innovate and to adapt – technologically, scientifically, and organizationally. This what Axis Powers are teaching Iranians.

    Quite valuable.

    As for Mr. Smith – I suppose he is frustrated by all the lies and incompetence he has seen or experienced.

    Today, some of the Iranian papers mentioned Dr. Maryam Mirzakhani.

    But with no pictures of her for obvious reasons.

    Rality will break things inside them and Axis Powers are shepherding that along.

  70. masoud says:

    I’m not sure how the NIAC got my email, but i just received a flyer from them to attend their ‘leadership conference on capitol hill’.

    The featured speakers:
    -Keith Ellison: ‘the first muslim’ member of congress.
    -Joel Hunter:billed as ‘Barack Obama’s spiritual advisoer’, whatever the hell that means.
    -Kenneth Pollack.

    I guess Maryam Rajavi was unavailable this year.

  71. Ataune says:


    I Initially thought that in a rush to answer you misused the word “teach” but your second reply hints at a purposeful intent.

    I believe that when a political grouping (A) is “taught” the tools to defend herself by another political order (B), then (A) is already, or on the way to become, a subordinate of (B); Now, if (A) has to remain a sovereign, seeking to learn is un-doubtfully the appropriate process through which he should improve his tools for defense. The difference is subtle, it reflects the freedom of the political will. When (B) is “teaching”, he is the one who will be choosing topics and scopes. While when (A) is “seeking to learn” he is the one finding from wherever possible the knowledge and tools to defend herself and remain sovereign. This might be from (A) or from another power (C), all depending on the circumstances based on which your free will is deciding.

    You are dividing today’s political violent struggle in the world mainly between an “Axis power” and a “Shia” one. If your recommendations are based on the assumption that each side of the divide have sovereign will and looking to keep it then on what basis you are claiming that the latter should or will accept what you call a “teaching” by the former, specially when you keep insisting that the goal of the “Axis power” is destruction.

  72. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 13, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    In my usage of the word “teach”, I had in mind the usage of the late Peter the Great while waging war against Sweden; one of the strongest states of that period in Europe.

    After each defeat by Sweden, the late Peter the Great is purported to have told his officers: “Do not despair lads; Sweden will eventually teach us how to fight and win.”

    And that was, in fact, what transpired.

    Iranians are being taught by Axis Powers – chief among them US – very valuable lessons in every sphere of human endeavor. And they have no one to bail them out or help them but themselves.

    If you look at Hezbollah, and later HAMAS, the same dynamics prevails – Israelis taught them how to fight.

    I am suggesting that the Axis Powers do not have concrete security threats emanating from Iran or the Shia or China or Russia that could explain their current course of action. Their current trajectory will involve them in 3 civilizational confrontations for the indefinite future.

    The last time the world saw that was when Ottomans were defeated in Vienna.

    Before that was the Crusades.

    And before that the multiple Muslim invasions into Northern India.

    And before that the venture of Islam against Byzantine Empire & the Sassanian Empire.

    So, civilization wars and conflicts have had a long history.

    What personally astonishes me is the cavalier way that the Axis Powers have set upon their current course; shredding the well-being of their own populations as well.

  73. BiBiJon says:

    I was thrilled to see a graduate of Sharif university get the Fields medal. I was very pleased that Zmith and fyi were so contorted with agony that they started a torrent of anti-Iranian invectives. Truly, it is a pleasure to see Iranian achievements confirmed by the agony it causes Zmith and fyi. On the one hand one ought to feel a degree of pity for the self-hating fyi, and our resident Mossad agent. But, let us allow ourselves a little pleasure at seeing these self-loathers cringe at the successes that Sharif university produces.

  74. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    August 13, 2014 at 4:45 pm

    The successes evidently are assisting the Great Satan in being even greater…

    What rubbish…

  75. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 13, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    One wishes it was only lies and the incompetence. That it was only greed and corruption. That it was only jealousy and selfishness. That it was only the silent indifferent apathy of a majority and opportunism of a minority.

    Alas that, it is much deeper than these. In fact these can be said to be only the symptoms of much deeper malaise. The more one looks into this “shallow” darkness, the more blacker it gets.

    I have come to think of the fundamental reasons for such state of affairs to be the deepest areas of Iranian culture, language, moral fiber, ethics etc etc and their interactions. That is why essentially communication between the very few who can question and think for themselves and the rest can not possibly happen in a country like Iran. Maryam Mirzakhani can not be who she is without United States. For the same reasons. I think these might be the reasons of why Iran will not produce any worthwhile knowledge even in the next 800 years (if this malaise is not addressed).

    For instance, when we talk about thinking, what mental meaning it arouses in the Iranian populace. Is it the same as the mental meaning of thinking in the West? What about curiosity? Joy? Questioning? Freedom? Will? Compassion? And so on. The superficial perception (not even thinking) of the world and the lack of a basic set of ethics/memes for empowering and arming the population in their struggle for their worldly destiny, in Iranian society, is not something that will go away if only x number of people stopped lying. Or a competent manager takes over a certain company.

    Why 1.5 billion Muslims in a couple of centuries produce less knowledge than a small town in Europe does in a couple of months? Why and how then they see themselves entitled to be given an “assembly line” of Airbus? Why a little girl born amongst their cargo cult has to run away in order to reach her true self?

  76. James Canning says:


    When you write of the “dominance of the Axis powers” over the past 400 years, you apparently include Russia as an “Axis power”?

  77. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 13, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    “The successes evidently are assisting the Great Satan in being even greater…”

    I was not aware that body of human/intellectual achievement in any country has ever been maligned by any Iranian leader.

    I feel for you. Seeing that Professor, a female product of Iranian culture, and Iran’s educational institutions win a coveted prize is irking you so bad that you’re talking utter rubbish, literally: “What rubbish…”

  78. BiBiJon says:

    “Why a little girl born amongst their cargo cult has to run away in order to reach her true self?” thus spake the Agent.

    Watch her interview at NBC.


  79. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 13, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    Yes, they were excellent students and the Bolsheviks materially improved that country’s human stock – as well as non-Slavic people.

    Everything in Central Asia that is valuable is built by the Communists; like Franco and Spain.

  80. kooshy says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 13, 2014 at 6:03 pm


    Perfectly said, thank you unfortunately I wasn’t available to blast their ass for their formulated commentary today, never less it’s a pleasure to see any Iranian’s success no matter by whom and where in the word, Deeply burns these Iran haters asses.

    We all got to congratulate first, her parents for her achievements, but more importantly we out to bow to her motherland for raising and producing the first women to win this prestigious award in math.

    We all should let Smith and FYI, deep in the nearest cool water tub available, ( at least wisteria down) they may find some relief.

  81. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    August 13, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    I do not think any one really has investigated this subject well.

    The late Taqizadeh and the late Yen Fu both were coginizant of the need for reform in their respective polities in the light of achievements of the Western Civilization but never produced, in my opinion, an adequate explanation of why “The West Won”.

    And I think the same question could be posed in regards to the Indic Civilization, which was in a state of decay even before Muslims got to it.

    And even in South America you see basically the same dynamics as Iran or India.

    That is, Brazil is a country that consciously has tried to model herself on the United States for decades – yet she is not the United States and never will be.

    One has to ask why?

    Or why is Argentina not as productive as Israel?

    Due to these and similar such thoughts I eventually discarded explanations based on imperialism, Mongol invasions, etc.

    It was almost like the work of a mechanical clock – in Iran, in China, in India – the clock’s spring unwound and the civilization entered stasis or very close to it.

    The late Al Farabi invented the distinction between “Essence” and “Existence” and Avicenna and Maimonides developed that distinction further – trying to rationally approach the Revelations’ Creation from Nothing.

    But it was the late St. Thomas who took those developments and incorporated them into the living tradition of Western Philosophy.

    In another instance, you can look at the European invention of Man-of-War; there was nothing in it unknown to Muslims or Chinese. The Man-of-War actually used a sail called “jib” – from Arabic – adopted from sail boats used in Indian Ocean trade. Yet the combination was a marvel of integration and organization.

  82. Rehmat says:

    fyi says: United Nations, though created Israel in 1949, is irrelevant now.

  83. Rehmat says:

    James Cunning; Ha, Ha, Ha….If your little mind says United States doesn’t support ISIS – it also must tell you United states doesn’t support Israel.


  84. Rehmat says:

    Iranian-born Stanford University professor Maryam Mirzakhani has become the first ever woman to win the Field Medal, regarded as the ‘Nobel Prize of Math’. The Fields Medal was first awarded in 1936. Professor Mizakhani is the first and only female among 56 mathematicians who have received this prestigious honor.


  85. Jay says:

    The fantastical western culture that appears to be the envy of some should be examined with a modicum of objectivity if any lesson is to be learned from it. Endless childish rants are not lessons one can build upon.

    One way to learn lessons is to look at where this culture has failed. Why is it that this culture sees violence as the solution to every problem – arresting journalists with extreme prejudice, acting like goons while being a peace officer, the incredible culture of rape on campuses, police turning their guns on innocent citizens, the expanding poverty line, the garrison security state, ….

    These are being done to the citizens of the west – not to xenoi! It shatters the argument that “the west takes care of its own”.

    Why has this so-proclaimed fantastical culture has failed so miserably?

  86. Empty says:

    Mirzakhani’s assessment and comparison in her own words:

    “Could you comment on the differences between mathematical education in Iran and in the US?

    It is hard for me to comment on this question since my experience here in the US is limited to a few universities, and I know very little about the high school education here. However, I should say that the education system in Iran is not the way people might imagine here. As a graduate student at Harvard, I had to explain quite a few times that I was allowed to attend a university as a woman in Iran. While it is true that boys and girls go to separate schools up to high school, this does not prevent them from participating say in the Olympiads or the summer camps.

    But there are many differences: In Iran you choose your major before going to college, and there is a national entrance exam for universities. Also, at least in my class in college, we were more focused on problem-solving than on taking advanced courses.”

    Source: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/aug/13/interview-maryam-mirzakhani-fields-medal-winner-mathematician

  87. Empty says:

    Mirzakhani’s explanation about influential forces on her math education. It is no wonder making wars in Muslim countries has been single most critical priority for the US/West. A nation can do a lot during peace time and within a secure society.

    “What experiences and people were especially influential on your mathematical education?

    I was very lucky in many ways. The war ended when I finished elementary school; I couldn’t have had the great opportunities that I had if I had been born 10 years earlier. I went to a great high school in Tehran – Farzanegan – and had very good teachers. I met my friend Roya Beheshti during the first week of middle school. It is invaluable to have a friend who shares your interests, and it helps you stay motivated.

    Our school was close to a street full of bookstores in Tehran. I remember how walking along this crowded street, and going to the bookstores, was so exciting for us. We couldn’t skim through the books like people usually do here in a bookstore, so we would end up buying a lot of random books. Also, our school principal was a strong-willed woman who was willing to go a long way to provide us with the same opportunities as the boys’ school.

    Later, I got involved in Math Olympiads that made me think about harder problems. As a teenager, I enjoyed the challenge. But most importantly, I met many inspiring mathematicians and friends at Sharif University. The more I spent time on mathematics, the more excited I became.”

    Source: Ibid.

  88. Persian Gulf says:


    His argument for Mirzakhani’s achievement is very thin. If it was in any other fields than math we would have agreed with what he says, due to the extensive funding that would otherwise be required. but math is a very special case. it only needs a genuine mind that was solidly built up. Kudos to Iran for doing the good job in this case.

    Quoting from few mathematician friends, to whom some were friends of Mirzakhani, Iran’s higher education system in math is very solid, and probably no less than the US.

    Thousands of Iranians got funding from the western institutions in the past decade or so. only one in a very specific field won this prestigious award. can one then argue that the rest were stupid?! of course not. This episode should not be used to demonize Iran’s system, rather praise it.

    It will remain to be seen if the kids of those Iranians who came to study abroad are going to be as successful, educationally, as their parents. I have had this argument with few people in the past already. and I used to tell them that your educational successes have, in addition to your God given ingenuity, much to do with the culture that brought you to this point.

    Anyway, congratulations to Marzakhani! Her success made me proud of being an Iranian. She is truly made in Iran.

  89. Persian Gulf says:


    The ones arguing to buy air planes from the west these days are mostly highly educated, and among the critics of the Islamic Republic. what a contradiction.

  90. Jay says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 13, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    Your post took the wind out of my sail!

    Shortly before you I posted a piece that was meant to provoke. Your sentence “can one then argue that the rest were stupid?!” addresses my provocation.

    Selecting instances of convenience to generalize an otherwise specific case is unhelpful and deceptive.

    Incidentally, Ms. Mirzakhani gave a beautiful lecture at Rice U. a few years back. I happen to be there and I heard her talk with great pride about her High school and University eduction in Iran.

  91. Empty says:

    Related to what Leveretts write:

    This is not a strategy, either for the Middle East or for the United States in the world, as we see power shifting from the west to the east, and we see critically important countries in the east—whether it’s China, India, or Russia, Iran or Iraq—because the United States is so antagonistic to all of them, they are aligning together. That is something that is not going to turn out well for the United States.”

    Excerpts from Ayatollah Khamenei (the day before yesterday in his visit with foreign relations staff:

    “Relations with the United States and negotiations with this country, except for very specific instances, not only have no benefit for the Islamic Republic but also is harmful. And who in the right mind goes after non-beneficial endeavors?”

    “Some people tried to pretend that if we sit at a negotiation table with the Americans, a lot of problems would be solved. Of course, we knew this is not the reality. However, events during the past year have proven this reality.”

    “In the past, there was no real relations between our officials and American officials but, in the past year, it was decided that officials to the level of foreign ministry to have communications, meetings, and negotiations. However, not only these efforts did not have any benefits [for us] but also the Americans’ language became more belligerent and more offensive, at the same time, they became more demanding both during the negotiations and in their public statements. Of course, our officials responded with strength but overall, it became evident, counter to some people’s imagination, that negotiations does not help anything. Americans not only did not reduce their hostilities but also increased the sanctions. Of course they say these were old sanctions and not new ones but in reality these were all new sanctions and the negotiations didn’t even help in the area of sanctions.”

    “Certainly, we do not prevent further negotiations and Dr. Zarif’s work with continue. However, these are invaluable experiences to further prove to everyone that negotiations with the Americans are useless and have absolutely no effect on reducing their hostilities.”

  92. Pouya says:

    James Canning

    1-for 35 years the West has not recognized the IR as the legitimate government of Iran.
    2-They backed Saddam’s use of chemical weapons and even provided him with nuclear technology when Iran was at the suburbs of southern city of Basra. Those were the nuclear technologies that they were sure they gave Saddam and they chased him all the way until Iraq was invaded in 2003. The intelligence information was not about what Saddam had gathered, it was about what he had been given since the 80’s to be used on the Iranians.
    3-They armed and backed Kurdish separatists through Saddam in the 1980’s. Kurdish language is a Persian dialect. Let me remind you that when the Brits were trying to break up the Ottomans, one of their fears was that the large Persian speaking Kurdish populations occupying eatern Turkey, Northern Iraq and Estern Syria would join Iran. So, they came up with the idea of Kurdish Independence.
    4-They recognize the “legimate” right of the Azaris to be independent and join the Azarbaijan republic. Here is the irony: 25 million Azaris are Iranians and live in Iran (my family included), and they are expected to accept a republic of 2 million people most of whom are Russians. It’s actually the other way around, Azarbaijan is occupied by Russian citizens and it is entirely Iranian territory. Recently Aliev ordered all Farsi language carvings be removed from the ancient monuments. That is ethnic cleansing by abolishing Azari culture. If Europe succeeds in Ukraine, next will be Azarbaijan with the sole purpose to divide Iran.
    5-35 year sanctions.
    6-Backing and recognizing the Taliban when they seemed to be poised to go to war with the Shia and Iran. The Taliban backed by Saudi Arab fighters were the original plan to create a Shia-Sunni war through Afganistan in the 1990’s. But it backfired and the Taliban eventually decided to rule Afganistan and came to terms with Iran.
    7-They define Iran as Persian. And they have advanced the idea that only 55% of the population is Persian, therefore, they argue, Iran can no longer exist if Persian population falls below 50%. When in fact, being Iranian has little to do with being Persian.

    Iran did not sanction itself. Therefore, Iran did no do anything to reduce it’s own “influence.”
    The Iranian government realized who is behind the ISIS movement and it’s sole purpose to drag Iran into a Shia/Sunni war. It is the reason why Iran has not gotten involved despite ISIS expansion and all the fighters and weapons that come through from Turkey.

  93. A-B says:

    It is tragic, and pathetic, how Eye-rainians masochistically degrade themselves before their ‘master’-tormentors, the Sadistic West; thinking somehow that or THEY will help! For example, these masochistic morons – and very ‘nationalistic’ at that! – complain about – what they view as – the ‘mullahs’ restricting of celebration of Chaharshanbe-souri (the fire-festival held the last Wednesday before Norooz) to Iran’s sworn enemy [the Western liars] who right in their face would say “but Norooz is a KURDISH or AFGHAN New Year.” I do not exaggerate! And this has been going on for centuries if not since those petty provincial pretentious plagerizing Greeks. I.e. Mowlana is ‘Afghan’ for being born in Balkh, and he is ‘Turkish’ for having died in Konya, but if he wrote Iranian ideas in Persian DURING HIS LIFETIME is irrelevant. This of course is why I call the West, Racist-Tribalists; they seem to not grasp (or probably more correctly; their knowing elite know how to misconstrue subjects) the abstract idea of Nation [Iran] that transcends petty tribalism. And if the narrow minded aspire to go global or universal, it only means they want to subjugate others to their selfish will and unjust hegemony.

    Interestingly, 6 months ago, if in Kerman, you would witness the ANNUAL Zartorshti (i.e. religious) festival of Saddeh, commemorating when Fire was given to the Iranians. At sunset, a HUGE bonfire is ceremoniously lit in front of thousands of – also non-Zartoshti – spectators. There were music and recitations from the Gathas but also speeches, some would say critical of Iran of today, but one I can refer to was something in this line: When Fire was given to the Iranians, they shared it generously with others. Unfortunately, today we see not only that we are selfishly denied [of the ‘Fire’] (cf. nuclear technology and science in general) but they deny everything that was given by us to them.


  94. fyi says:

    A-B says:

    August 14, 2014 at 6:01 am

    Rumi’s works are available in Turkish – translated into Turkish poetry.

    I think his metaphysics is obsolete and therefore much of his commentary on the Quran with it.

  95. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 9:10 am

    Even a French Roman Catholic priest and historian, Louis Gardet, writes: “It is sufficient to mention ‘Aziz al-Din Nasafi, Farid al-Din ‘Attar and Sa’adi, and above all Jalal al-Din Rumi, whose Mathnawi remains one of the purest literary glories of Persia.”

    While you, a nobody evidenced by your rank prejudice against Nigerian blacks, women, and bricklayers of any gender, plus your off the charts irrationality, run around lambasting all things Iranian.

    I read your negative commentary as compliments, and rather enjoy them. Not a cultural chauvinist myself, nevertheless I think most folk with a stable mind find joy and pride in their nation’s achievements. Your consistency at unrestrained bizarreness has started to act as a useful guide; The diametric opposite of what you blather about here is more likely to be the unvarnished truth.

    Thanks for “guidance.”

  96. kooshy says:

    “Rumi’s works are available in Turkish – translated into Turkish poetry.”

    So what’s your point? Why you wouldn’t finish what you want to say, what your comment has to do with what and why A-B said, Rumi’s work has been translated to almost all languages in the world, but for you why is it important that the work was translated in Turkish.

    FYI- or whatever kind of reprobate weasel person you are, enough is enough, once more stop demonizing, denying and bashing anything and everything that’s Iranian. Please respect other real Iranians here, as you should have noticed they take real issue with your constant bashing of their historic achievements. Please stop or move away.

  97. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 14, 2014 at 10:33 am

    BiBiJon says:

    August 14, 2014 at 10:20 am

    You live in the past.

    گیرم پدر تو بود فاضل
    از فضل پدر، تو را چه حاصل؟

  98. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    August 13, 2014 at 11:20 pm

    When the late Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar was awarded the Physics Noble in 1983, he expressed bitterness in the lateness of the award; that he was given an award so late in life that he could not put it to the good use of the funding graduate students and post-doctoral fellows to further explore the areas that he had pioneered.

    Professor Dr. Mirzakhani Fields Medal is an equivalent of Nobel Prize and it would be fitting for the an Iranian university to fund an entire research institute to her and ask her to be its scientific director for as long as she so wishes.

  99. Ataune says:


    “…it would be fitting for the an Iranian university to fund an entire research institute to her and ask her to be its scientific director for as long as she so wishes.”

    I hope the reason you are stating the above is based on believing her work will be useful for Iran in particular and what you call the “Shia power” in general and not because she’s a math genius. You assuredly know that bright minds like her are given opportunities, grants, rewards, chairmanship, prizes etc… based on their usefulness to the overall goal of the society and not solely their “beautiful mind”.

  100. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 14, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    I think you need to consider the Bohr Institute.

    Denmark created an institute around the late Niels Bohr – the Bohr Institute in Copenhagen – before World War II.

    Attendance was by discretion of late Niles Bohr and everyone was welcome.

    The institute is still there.

    Iranians can do exactly the same things – an institute with an annual budget of $ 10 million would be a good start.

    This is the biggest thing that has happened for Iranian science in centuries.

    At any rate, that is what I would have done…

  101. Ataune says:


    But your answer doesn’t address my concern.

    No political society in her “right state of mind” would give free reign to someone, even a genius, to do her/his academic activities unless what s/he is performing is useful for the goals of the polity. Don’t you think so?

    Furthermore, you yourself describe the present context in the world as a death or life fight between the “Axis” and the “Shia”. How come then Iran, at the center of this “Shia” power and under relentless attack by the hostile “Axis”, should allow a person that has chosen by her own volition the side of the “enemy” to run a prestigious academic project free of any constraint.

  102. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    Case in point. If the basis of fyi’s remark is that in Iran million$ are not allocated to chairs of various universities already for decades/centuries, and that Iranians don’t give a toss about their ‘greats’ in science, and/or do not prioritize education, then we all should deduce the complete opposite must be true, and a simple Google search would prove it.

    Again thank you fyi for once again affirming that Iran/Iranians do indeed revere their stars, and so many donate so much money that whether or not one individual follows the well established pattern or not, does not make an iota of a difference.

  103. kooshy says:

    Just for non-Persian readers to know Fyi responding to my and Bibi’s earlier comment replied with a Persian proverb which translated is

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 11:46 am

    You live in the past.

    گیرم پدر تو بود فاضل
    از فضل پدر، تو را چه حاصل؟

    “Suppose your father was a scholar, what benefit you received of your father’s scholarship”

    Well, firstly our resident Iran basher weasel, didn’t wanted to say (translate) this in English, because his propagandist aim of bashing Iran is mainly directed toward the English speaking, but at the same time he did find the urge to reply to our protest, by furthering his insult, so, the only way to do this was to cut of non-Persian readers by replying in Persian.

    But what he didn’t want to say (and that’s why he didn’t say it in English) or is saying it is: no matter if one learns or not from and by his/her father, a weasel like you cannot, shouldn’t and wouldn’t be allowed to take away one’ heritage, as matter of fact this kind of relationship is eternal, and can’t be changed by paid sleeping deniers like you.

    So fyi (literally) if you are looking to find if someone has learned from his/her father, first order is, to acknowledge and not to deny who’s father he is.

  104. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 14, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    No, I do not think so.

    What benefit did Denmark receive through the Bohr Institute to advance her political goals?

    This is the short-coming of the Shia Crescent an indeed the entire political Islam; it turns people asunder in its pursuit of Islamic Piety.

    It is not yet repentant in its effort at defining who is or is not Muslim.

    Did anyone make her a counter offer?

    I doubt it.

    She was just another bad-Muslim….

    The Shia leaders are at fault here, there is no doubt.

    In effect, they are subsidizing their enemies….

    And are being more wasteful than Americans and their throw-away society….

  105. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    August 14, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    I would be waiting impatiently for the inauguration of the Mirzakhani Institute of Mathematical Sciences.

  106. James Canning says:


    Americans indeed are very wasteful with their “throw-away society”. This helps to explain the wastelands that characterize so man American cities and towns, and villages for that matter.

  107. A-B says:

    Well well! So, you’re pulling a ‘James Canning’ on me – willfully disregarding the whole picture; pick one line, on your own choosing, to misconstrue! To accommodate you; I wrote “during his lifetime” in capital letters which does NOT imply that what he said was or is necessarily perennial; satisfied? Now, other people might think it was, but THAT IS OFF-TOPIC.

    My point was to show the depth of West’s animosity towards Iran as a cultural, national, political, HISTORICAL entity; that the West is methodically eroding Iranian identity in favor of bogus tribal identities to carve out other bogus ‘nations’ to – according to their wishful thinking – disintegrate Iran. Well, this will not happen; according to what I call People of Culture (in the sense Iraq is Iran, etc.) Sooner we’ll see the annihilation of the shitty West; this I am sure of!

    The other point was to expose the sick psyche of some traumatized souls I call Eye-rainians, who consider themselves champions of Iran, while they are so eager to ‘expose’ actual and imaginary deficiencies in Iran to Iran’s worst enemy, the West; as if that would by any means be constructive. Meanwhile, the West, which is the root cause of many of those problems, looks at these Eye-rainians with utter contempt. The severity in their condition manifests in that the ‘help’ they seek from the West, at least not too long ago, was for the West to bomb Iran; KNOWING (as they SHOULD!) the fate of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya. Well, too me, this mind can only be described as severely masochistic.

    Other point is the validity of Western claims about their greatness, if that ‘greatness’ is so great to begin with. That is why I used Mowlavi as example. If, all of a sudden, Mowlavi becomes a ‘Turk’ just by the ‘empirical fact’ of geography, then why aren’t some of those so-called ‘ancient Greeks’ recognized as Turkish? Or if they lived under the Iranian (or so-called Persian) rule, why weren’t they ‘Persians’? Further, what if their ideas were Iranian and not Zeusian Greek? Now, I think they can keep it; it’s obsolete, anyway.


  108. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    I am not “Iran-basher” as you state.

    I am pointing out the vast gap that exists between a country such as US and Iran and the extend to which Iranians are wasteful of their human resources.

    Here you have a bona-fide opportunity to do something very concrete ….

    Talk is cheap, let your actions speaks for you….

  109. James Canning says:


    You confuse the US with “the West”. The US has refused to reopen its embassy in Tehran. Name a country that does not accept the Iranian government as “legitimate”.

  110. James Canning says:


    Iran in effect voluntarily gave up huge amounts of “soft power”. You argue that Iran in effect was deprived of huge amounts of sot power by actions taken by “the West”. Including, of course, China and Russia.

  111. James Canning says:


    After the first World War, a number of options were considered by Britain regarding Ottoman provinces that were being taken from Turkey. An independent Kurdistan was considered. Returning the province of Mosul to Turkey was also considered.

    I take it you think Persia should have tried to annex what is now Iraqi Kurdistan? Persia had hopes of annexing Georgia, to gain access to the Black Sea.

  112. Ataune says:

    “What benefit did Denmark receive through the Bohr Institute to advance her political goals?”

    I’m not an expert in Denmark’s history but what I can surmise is that the country’s polity was certainly considering Bohr’s work as being part of the overall framework defined by the society. No wonder the creation of the Institute had to be voted in by the Danish parliament while the funding went through a fastidious lobbying by Bohr himself. Again, I’m not a historian but I can assert that Bohr has certainly been required by both financial and political backers to adjust the legal framework and the scientific activities of the Institute to their whims… of non-scientists. The same will certainly go for any hypothetical Mirzakhani Institute, The only difference being that the backers will have different value system closer to the “Shia” power you mention being furthermore the recipients of the “Axis power’s” relentless aggression.

  113. fyi says:

    A-B says:

    August 14, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    In fact, the Grand Sophie of Persia was well respected figure in France during the Enlightenment period; partly as a counter-weight to the damn Ottomans.

    I think more recently, since US became the Hegemon of the Near East, that as long as the Western states were masters of Iran, they did not care one whit one way or another.

    I think that it is a mistake to think that Iran’s problems are due to the West alone or for more the most part. I think you will need to concentrate closer at home; the decay of the culture and the country for centuries.

    You will not get any argument from me in regards to these Iranians that you have mentioned.

    To your point in the last paragraph, I think Iranians are too modest in propagandizing the historical achievements of Iran; they have not been forceful in exhibiting that Iran constitutes the core of the Islamic Civilization – may be 75%.

  114. James Canning says:


    Name a single country that calls for Iranian Azerbaijan to be joined with Azerbaijan.

  115. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 14, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    Look: in your world may be everything is political and if you try hard enough may be you can find tenuous threads to support your theses.

    What I hear is that you have no proof in regards to Denmark and thus you are stating your theses.

    But let us have it your way – Iranians would be training tens of mathematically gifted people – some Iranians and some not – who would go on to train many more and produce mathematical ideas founded on the proposition that solutions to problem – theoretical or practical – are to be found by the application of Reason and not Emotion.

  116. Ataune says:


    “What I hear is that you have no proof in regards to Denmark and thus you are stating your theses”

    Let’s check the facts then. Bohr Institute on her own web site describe the historical process the way I did. Which, to be honest, not being a historian, I read first before stating anything in this blog. Everyone can verify it here:


    Now regarding seeing everything as political or, a better term, power relationship while I’m saying that nowhere in the world an academic or scientific institution can be funded and created without the backing of the influential centers and peoples of the polity, you, the one who is seeing America/Iran in a “rapture” kind of relationship, are emitting the wish to see a genius being allowed, simply because she is a genius, to bypass all the social and political constraint and do “as she likes”. You try furthermore to make this sound historically true in the Western societies by backing it by a fact not grounded in reality.

    This is by definition a fallacy.

  117. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 14, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    Beggars cannot be choosers.

    The Western polities are orders of magnitude richer in their human resources than any Muslim polity you would care to mention over the last 400 years, perhaps longer.

    They could perhaps afford to be wasteful of human resources – the way Americans were with their daylight air raids against Germany during World War II.

    Iranian, in my judgment, cannot afford that waste.

    Denmark’s political leaders, evidently, agreed that they could not let a genius go to waste – or to leave Denmark.

    So they built an institute for him.

    The late Joseph Stalin prevented the late Kapitza from leaving USSR but eventually built a Laboratory for him.

    This is Iranians’ chance.

    If their political and social structures is preventing them from ceasing this opportunity, then this is their loss and no one else’s.

    Of course, until few years ago, those “all the social and political constraint” amounted to this:

    Mr. Rafsnajani’s son could stay in England, receiving upwards of a million pounds a year under the guise of support for “The Oxford Branch of Azad University” for years.

    The Great Satan, evidently not burdened by a historical baggage of political and social constrains – as you pout it – is letting her do as “she likes”.

    She has indeed prospered and grown in the United States; she is not discriminated because she is from Iran or she is a Muslim.

    This is the strength of the United States internally.

    That US has elected to wage in essence a civilizational war – in my opinion – for the last so many years does not detract from her domestic strengths.

  118. A-B says:

    I repeat:
    … “Eye-rainians, who consider themselves champions of Iran, while they are so eager to ‘expose’ actual and imaginary deficiencies in Iran to Iran’s worst enemy, the West; as if that would by any means be constructive. Meanwhile, the West, which is the root cause of many of those problems, looks at these Eye-rainians with utter contempt.”

    I would discuss these issues with Iranians in Persian when and if it could help; not to use this forum to force others to share my personal burden while pretending that I’m actually sharing my ‘wisdom’ with ungrateful ignoramus people who refuse or are incapable to receive it. [I’m not referring to your person.]

    Further: One can argue if History or Humanities are scientific at all, but a minimum of objectivity from the WESTERN [biased] ‘scholars’ and ‘academia’ would recognize and acknowledge Iran’s role and impact on history of mankind, without ‘lobbying’, or “propagandizing” as you put it. Actually, just a pair of functioning eyes and a couple of synapses would suffice to discern a whopping 75% contribution to anything! Yet, according to them Iran, if mentioned at all, is/has been totally insignificant. Doesn’t this in itself disqualify Western Academia?

    Now, my personal field of ‘expertise’ is technical, not humanities, and I happen to know Scandinavia; it is rotten to the core!


  119. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    I am not “Iran-basher” as you state.

    Yes, you are a mental chronic Iran basher (fortunately, like Bibi said, you think the way you are doing it is very clever and no one will detect your propose, but as you just should have noticed by the responses you got today everyone here did), by the mere fact that you deny to admit that Rumi is an Iranian poet you try to deny any Iran or Iranian achievements that is as good as bashing AH. If you weren’t, and was just another of those pulled up from you know where, opinions of yours, could and would say for example “yes Rumi was a great Iranian poet, but unfortunately in my opinion Iranians didn’t learn much from him”.
    But as said, by now you know, and we all know what your propose here is not to inform and be informed, your propose hanging here is: to subdue and bash Iran and Iranians for anything, but fortunately by now everyone here on this blog knows what your aim and goals are. You are not as clever as you think you are.

  120. A-B says:

    OOPS! Didn’t mean to use bold letters through out the text. I try with capital letters to highlight where I wanted to do so.

    I repeat:
    … “Eye-rainians, who consider themselves champions of Iran, while they are so EAGER TO ‘EXPOSE’ ACTUAL AND IMAGINARY DEFICIENCIES IN IRAN TO IRAN’S WORST ENEMY, the West; AS IF THAT WOULD BY ANY MEANS BE CONSTRUCTIVE. Meanwhile, the West, which is the root cause of MANY of those problems, looks at these Eye-rainians with utter contempt.”

  121. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 14, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    I believe you cannot deal with that thing called Reality.

  122. fyi says:

    A-B says:

    August 14, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    I really do not care about such concerns as you have included in your posting.

    One has a duty to Truth, and if one does not exercise that duty then one is engaging in propaganda.

    I am telling you things are they are and not as you wish them to be.

  123. Karl.. says:

    Maliki resign
    Would be very bad for the region in whole if Iraq becomes the new Syria.

  124. fyi says:

    A-B says:

    August 14, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    Ah yes, deficiencies – please see below


    These poor researchers need $ million while Mr. Mehdi Hasehmi was receiving more than a million pounds a year for the “Oxford Branch of Azad University”.

    You cannot blame Iran’s problems on Americans or the Axis Powers alone – not perhaps even the majority of them.

  125. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    August 14, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    It is very good news, an Arab leader leaving political office – however reluctantly – in a peaceful manner.

    I sincerely hope for similar occurrences in the future.

  126. A-B says:


    Well, I don’t really care about what you care, as I actually addressed your concerns. But you arrogate that you have the Truth (with capital ‘T’ at that)! Well, sweet dreams.

    AGAIN (it seems, that I have to repeat myself again and again) I didn’t say there are no problems in Iran, I object to how your friend Smith, and YOU, abuses it, OBSESSIVELY. And I explicitely said the West is root cause of MANY of those problems, not ALL (I said “many” once, highlighted it TWICE!!)


  127. Ataune says:


    You are off target if you think that I’m not crediting different “Western” societies as not having contributed to the civilization or not having internal strength. Or if you think that I consider Iranian political order as the one perfect ideal not needing any internal reform. Reforms are always and everywhere, and to borrow your own wording “for men in a fallen state”, needed to keep the strength of the political systems.

    But let’s not diverge from the scope. You claimed scientists get opportunities in the West solely because of their skills while Muslim polities prevent this by imposing their belief systems on individuals. But the case you brought-up to back your argument actually showed that Western societies do impose restraints too.

    So the question here is, since the argument you advance is fallacious then maybe the problem itself is not formulated correctly. Maybe the fact that some bright minds do currently leave Iran is not related to what you describe as overall lack of achievement in science in that polity. And then maybe the facts, as other readers have pointed-out, do not even show at all a lack of scientific achievement, but progress.

  128. A-B says:

    Typo: I object to how your friend Smith, and YOU, abuse this forum, OBSESSIVELY.

    or, in fact, you ARE ‘abusing’ Iran’s problems.

  129. Ataune says:



    Change this:
    “So the question here is, since the argument you advance is fallacious then maybe the problem itself is not formulated correctly. Maybe the fact that some bright minds do currently leave Iran is not related to what you describe as overall lack of achievement in science in that polity. And then maybe the facts, as other readers have pointed-out, do not even show at all a lack of scientific achievement, but progress.”

    to this:
    “So the question here is, since the argument you advance is fallacious then maybe the problem itself is not formulated correctly. Maybe the fact that some bright minds do currently leave Iran is not related to what you describe as overall lack of opportunities in scientific achievements in that polity. And then maybe the facts, as other readers have pointed-out, do not even show at all a lack of scientific achievement, but progress.”

  130. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    “I believe you cannot deal with that thing called Reality.’

    Is this your best reply, see, you even don’t see any use to deny anymore. As I said you are exposed and expired, send in another clown. Early on, I knew why you tag yourself as “fyi”, but you are so chronically biased that you expose yourself early on, no matter how you tag yourself, for that matter, you may as well start using the AH tag now that you have got yourself exposed to everyone.

  131. BiBiJon says:

    Set your watches to fyi’s drivel

    Among other uses that fyi has, one must not forget the geopolitical shifting sands that prompt him to write what he writes.

    An extension to the nuclear negotiations mean one thing only: Both sides genuinely think there is a solution that is acceptable to both sides, and that they both think they need at most till November to sell it to their respective peanut galleries.

    The latest blow back from US strategy-cum-habitual-mistakes, ISIS, has thrown Iran and the US on the same front, and once again, Iran the loudly acknowledged king-maker has found a compromise and ditched al-Maliki who has just resigned. This also is huge boost for Assad who’d been shouting he has been fighting terrorists all this time.

    Hamas is on the verge of getting the blockade lifted, and the hundred-year hudna looks to become a reality.

    US is once again approaching the Lebanese government and showering it with largesse, and remember Hizbullah is part of that government.

    It is hard to agree with the likes of Doran, but I do agree with this:

    “the president is dreaming of an historical accommodation with Iran. The pursuit of that accommodation is the great white whale of Obama’s Middle East strategy, and capturing it is all that matters; everything else is insignificant by comparison. The goal looms so large as to influence every other facet of American policy, even so seemingly unrelated a matter as a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.”

    See http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/iran-at-saban/posts/2014/08/13-doran-obama-middle-east-policy-danger-to-allies

    However, SCO looms large and places Iran in even better stead to press for advantage. Also, sanctions have outlived the tolerance of third parties, especially now that sanctions against Russia, announced by a screech of “F*CK the EU” have now coincided with EU’s economic flat-lining quarter.

    The net of all this, for fyi, is that Fields medal was the last straw. Get popcorn, soda and enjoy fyi thrashing about as all his imploding mental constructs are causing huge discomfort to his lower bowel, which was already knotted up in essentialism, and overuse of spectacularly irrelevant specifics to ply his nonsensical generalities.

  132. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    August 14, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    You live in a fantasy world if you think Mr. Obama is capable of historical accommodation with Iran.

    He can think of it as much as he likes….

  133. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 14, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    You do not understand, the problem is endemic across multiple states and multiple civilizational boundaries.

    And Indian stuck in India, comes to US, and before you know it he has started several companies in Silicon Valley.

  134. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 5:30 pm

    Thanks for the guidance. If you deny it, it must be true. If you think it remote, it must be proximate.

  135. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 14, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    What restrains have been imposed on Dr. Mirzakhani?

    Or Dr. Vali Nasr, a dean at Johns Hopkins University?

    Or Dr. Najafi at the University of Michigan?

    And many many such people.

    Please enlighten us.

  136. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    You are asking too much from cargo cult.

    Dr AbusSalam for years after he had won the Nobel prize literally begged the cargo cult Pakistani state to allow him to build an international center for theoretical physics in Pakistan. The more he begged the more annoyed and harassing Pakistani state became. Eventually he gave up the idea. Then out of many Western states proposal which he was being continuously offered, he chose Italy.

    He had become so much hurt but still he pushed for this international center to annually invite young physicists to Italy and teach them for free. Later after his death, Italy renamed the center in his honor (by the way his complete idea was for three international centers of excellence in research to built in Muslim lands one for physics which he wanted to be built in Pakistan, one for chemistry to be built in Egypt and one for bio-sciences to be built in Iran. All three countries refused, including the Shah of Iran who despite his “modernism” was actually as much of a cargo cult as the current Iranian state).

    But to the end his love for Pakistan, remained so strong that he never applied and never got any other citizenship. A man of principle who never drank Alcohol (not even in his Nobel prize party) and remained religious. But his love for the motherland and Muslim lands, and his strong desire to promote science in them was not enough to absolve him of having been born into an Ahmadi family. Pakistan at the time was fast trying to deobandize its internal power structure and the last thing it needed was promotion of his public image (even in an indirect way).

    Now in the cargo cult nation of Iran, building a center in the name and by the chair of this American-Iranian girl is completely out of question. Just imagine she standing there with her boy hair cut, no make up, in a small shirt next to her Christian White American husband. This image is too much in conflict with fundamentals of cargo cult system in Iran. Almost to the point of being poisonous and lethal.

    Because the cargo cult can not differentiate between the scientific fruits and the personal religious conviction since it believes it is the latter that gives the earlier. And we all know what the image of personal religious convictions should look like and be like and this American-Iranian girl is absolutely the opposite of that image. In the mind of cargo cult what kind of message the promotion of this image will send to young Iranian girls? That they should become mathematicians, go to United States and marry a Christian working in IBM? This is just too much.

    Fortunately for the cargo cult there are two more options. One is to deny that she even exists which in today’s connected world is impossible. And the second option is that as long as she keeps herself, her husband and her ideas in US, she will be very quietly appreciated and even touted as the proof that the cargo cult nation works and is not at all “stupid”. All this to a degree ofcourse. Too much promotion is not good for the health of the cargo cult. Just when some one brings up the topic, the cargo cult will push it in that direction: that America’s achievements are ours and that we also are shared in West’s scientific progress and other such BS. As you can see they have chosen the second option. Wisely in my opinion for their peculiar situation.

    But one can not wonder at the divine message in this. That it was not a male devout Shia with a domesticated unseen wife who did it. It was a small girl, with boy hair cut, living without hijab, married to an American Christian that did it. Does God want to say something here? Or to paraphrase Einstein; is He playing dice? Only two significant scientific events have come out of Muslims in the past several centuries, one is this American-Iranian girl and the other that Pakistani man. One wonders what kind of a dice is this? The very few and the couple of times that it did turn, the result was completely against the prevalent cargo cult convictions of these societies. One can only wonder the ways in which the working of universe shatters the constructed pseudo-reality of liars, cargo cults and their minions. Each and every time. Is this also an Ayat? Should we think about it as Quran instructs? What does it mean? What does it imply us to do?

  137. Karl.. says:


    “Hamas is on the verge of getting the blockade lifted, and the hundred-year hudna looks to become a reality.”

    Source that Hamas is anyway near getting rid of the blockade?

    US arent anyway near getting closer to Iran/Lebanon and/or in the long run as you seems to imply.

  138. BiBiJon says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 14, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    The drafter of the famous 2003 fax is now the FM.


    There is nothing new it what I seem to imply.

  139. James Canning says:


    I know a lot of people in Britain and America, and I cannot think of one of them who “views Iranians with contempt”. Where do you get this notion?

  140. James Canning says:

    Nadeem Badshah has an interesting report in The Times (London) August 6th: “Capital city: London tops the table as home for [dollar] millionaires”. 395,000 people in London have more than $1 million in net assets. In 2nd place is New York, with 319,700 millionaires, according to this report. 3rd place is Tokyo, with 265,000. 4th is Singapore, with 223,800. 5th place goes to Hong Kong, with 211,700.

  141. ataune says:


    Most likely nothing since they choose what you call the “Axis power” side themselves, based on their own personal choice of lifestyle. So why should they feel any kind of restriction in a place that their personal choice coincide with what you call the “enemy of Shia” proposes. This contradiction is for you to resolve not me. But, if you ask any Muslim scholars condition in any field of humanities, born and raised in the US and working, or hopping to work, there and with a minimal affinities with Muslim political causes in the middle-east you will notice how the opportunities lack for them.