Nuclear Negotiations and America’s Moment of Truth About Iran

As the parties prepare for the next round of P5+1 nuclear talks with Iran, starting on Thursday in Geneva, we are pleased to share our most recent Op Ed, “America’s Moment of Truth About Iran,” published in The Diplomat, see here.  As always, we encourage everyone to leave comments on The Diplomat site as well as on this site.   

 America’s Moment of Truth About Iran

America’s Iran policy is at a crossroads.  Washington can abandon its counterproductive insistence on Middle Eastern hegemony, negotiate a nuclear deal grounded in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and get serious about working with Tehran to broker a settlement to the Syrian conflict.  In the process, the United States would greatly improve its ability to shape important outcomes there.  Alternatively, America can continue on its present path, leading ultimately to strategic irrelevance in one of the world’s most vital regions—with negative implications for its standing in Asia as well. 

U.S. policy is at this juncture because the costs of Washington’s post-Cold War drive to dominate the Middle East have risen perilously high.  President Obama’s self-inflicted debacle over his plan to attack Syria after chemical weapons were used there in August showed that America can no longer credibly threaten the effective use of force to impose its preferences in the region.  While Obama still insists “all options are on the table” for Iran, the reality is that, if Washington is to deal efficaciously with the nuclear issue, it will be through diplomacy.      

In this context, last month’s Geneva meeting between Iran and the P5+1 brought America’s political class to a strategic and political moment of truth.  Can American elites turn away from a self-damaging quest for Middle Eastern hegemony by coming to terms with an independent regional power?  Or are they so enthralled with an increasingly surreal notion of America as hegemon that, to preserve U.S. “leadership,” they will pursue a course further eviscerating its strategic position?        

The proposal for resolving the nuclear issue that Iran’s foreign minister, Javad Zarif, presented in Geneva seeks answers to these questions.  It operationalizes the approach advocated by Hassan Rohani and other Iranian leaders for over a decade:  greater transparency on Iran’s nuclear activities in return for recognizing its rights as a sovereign NPT signatory—especially to enrich uranium under international safeguards—and removal of sanctions.  For years, the Bush and Obama administrations rejected this approach.  Now Obama must at least consider it.      

The Iranian package provides greater transparency on Tehran’s nuclear activities in two crucial respects.  First, it gives greater visibility on the conduct of Iran’s nuclear program.  Iran has reportedly offered to comply voluntarily for some months with the Additional Protocol (AP) to the NPT—which it has signed but not yet ratified and which authorizes more proactive and intrusive inspections—to encourage diplomatic progress.  Tehran would ratify the AP—thereby committing to its permanent implementation—as part of a final deal.    

Second, the package aims to validate Iran’s declarations that its enrichment infrastructure is not meant to produce weapons-grade fissile material.  Iran would stop enriching at the near-20 percent level of fissile-isotope purity needed to fuel the Tehran Research Reactor and cap enrichment at levels suitable for fueling power reactors.  Similarly, Iran is open to capping the number of centrifuges it would install—at least for some years—at its enrichment sites in Natanz and Fordo. 

Based on conversations with Iranian officials and political figures in New York in September (during Rohani and Zarif’s visit to the UN General Assembly) and in Tehran last month, it is also possible to identify items that the Iranian proposal almost certainly does not include.  Supreme Leader Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei has reportedly given President Rohani and his diplomats flexibility in negotiating a settlement—but he has also directed that they not compromise Iran’s sovereignty.  Thus, the Islamic Republic will not acquiesce to American (and Israeli) demands to suspend enrichment, shut its enrichment site at Fordo, stop a heavy-water reactor under construction at Arak, and ship its current enriched uranium stockpile abroad

On one level, the Iranian package is crafted to resolve the nuclear issue based on the NPT, within a year.  Iran’s nuclear rights would be respected; transparency measures would reduce the proliferation risks of its enrichment activities below what Washington tolerates elsewhere.  On another level, though, the package means to test America’s willingness and capability to resolve the issue on this basis.  It tests this not just for Tehran’s edification, but also for that of other P5+1 states, especially China and Russia, and of rising powers like India and South Korea.       

America can fail the Iranian test in two ways.  First, the Obama administration—reflecting America’s political class more broadly—may prove unwilling to acknowledge Iran’s nuclear rights in a straightforward way, insisting on terms for a deal that effectively suborn these rights and violate Iranian sovereignty. 

There are powerful constituencies—e.g., the Israel lobby, neoconservative Republicans, their Democratic “fellow travelers,” and U.S.-based Iran “experts”—that oppose any deal recognizing Iran’s nuclear rights.  They understand that acknowledging these rights would also mean accepting the Islamic Republic as an enduring entity representing legitimate national interests; to do so, America would have to abandon its post-Cold War pretensions to Middle Eastern hegemony.      

Those pretensions have proven dangerously corrosive of America’s ability to accomplish important objectives in the Middle East, and of its global standing.  Just witness the profoundly self-damaging consequences of America’s invasion and occupation of Iraq, and how badly the “global war on terror” has eviscerated the perceived legitimacy of American purposes in the Muslim world. 

But, as the drama over Obama’s call for military action against Syria indicates, America’s political class remains deeply attached to imperial pretense—even as the American public turns away from it.  If Washington could accept the Islamic Republic as a legitimate regional power, it could work with Tehran and others on a political solution to the Syrian conflict.  Instead, Washington reiterates hubristic demands that President Bashar al-Assad step down before a political process starts, and relies on a Saudi-funded “Syrian opposition” increasingly dominated by al-Qa’ida-like extremists.

If Obama does not conclude a deal recognizing Iran’s nuclear rights, it will confirm suspicions already held by many Iranian elites—including Ayatollah Khamenei—and in Beijing and Moscow about America’s real agenda vis-à-vis the Islamic Republic.  It will become undeniably clear that U.S. opposition to indigenous Iranian enrichment is not motivated by proliferation concerns, but by determination to preserve American hegemony—and Israeli military dominance—in the Middle East.  If this is so, why should China, Russia, or rising Asian powers continue trying to help Washington—e.g., by accommodating U.S. demands to limit their own commercial interactions with Iran—obtain an outcome it does not actually want?                    

America can also fail Iran’s test if it is unable to provide comprehensive sanctions relief as part of a negotiated nuclear settlement.  The Obama administration now acknowledges what we have noted for some time—that, beyond transitory executive branch initiatives, lifting or even substantially modifying U.S. sanctions to support diplomatic progress will take congressional action.    

During Obama’s presidency, many U.S. sanctions initially imposed by executive order have been written into law.  These bills—signed, with little heed to their long-term consequences, by Obama himself—have also greatly expanded U.S. secondary sanctions, which threaten to punish third-country entities not for anything they’ve done in America, but for perfectly lawful business they conduct in or with Iran.  The bills contain conditions for removing sanctions stipulating not just the dismantling of Iran’s nuclear infrastructure, but also termination of Tehran’s ties to movements like Hizballah that Washington (foolishly) designates as terrorists and the Islamic Republic’s effective transformation into a secular liberal republic. 

The Obama administration may have managed to delay passage of yet another sanctions bill for a few weeks—but Congressional Democrats no less than congressional Republicans have made publicly clear that they will not relax conditions for removing existing sanctions to help Obama conclude and implement a nuclear deal.  If their obstinacy holds, why should others respect Washington’s high-handed demands for compliance with its extraterritorial (hence, illegal) sanctions against Iran?    

Going into the next round of nuclear talks in Geneva on Thursday, it is unambiguously plain that Obama will have to spend enormous political capital to realign relations with Iran.  America’s future standing as a great power depends significantly on his readiness to do so. 

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 

545 Responses to “Nuclear Negotiations and America’s Moment of Truth About Iran”

  1. kooshy says:

    Great Article and a lot more straight to the point article about this state department Israeli negotiator, Wendy Sherman

    Can the P5+1 and Iran meetings succeed?
    The DNA of Iranians and Under Secretary Sherman
    by SASAN FAYAZMANESH

    “In sum, neither Wendy Sherman nor many of her colleagues are what they pretend to be. They are not honest and objective negotiators who are genuinely trying to resolve peacefully a dispute between the West and Iran over Iran’s nuclear program. In the guise of representing the interests of the people of the United States of America, these individuals are in fact representing the interests of a colonial power in the Middle East. There is a saying in Persian to the effect that the pagan considers everyone else to have the same faith as himself. It appears that when Mrs. Sherman stated that “deception is part of the DNA,” she was thinking of herself and many of her own colleagues.”

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/04/the-dna-of-iranians-and-under-secretary-sherman/

  2. Karl.. says:

    Most likely what will happen:

    > US will come with new demands

    > Iran will refuse

    > US will say Iran dont want talks
    > US will put more sanctions
    > US will begin using military threats

  3. Jay says:

    I highly recommend this article to James Canning.

    Leveretts place the responsibility for decisions right where it belongs – in the hands of Mr. Obama.

    Ultimately America must choose between the delusion of supremacy and the reality of coexistence – whatever the decision maybe, it will be hailed by Britain, Canada, Australia, … – the cheerleading section.

  4. Aletho says:

    Obama must stand down the Zionists or watch America get pushed aside as the global community moves ahead, replacing the Western institutions with their own as we have already been observing in Latin America.

    Look at CELAC, UNASUR, MERCOSUR, PETROCARIB, the developing South American fiber optic ring etc…

    Russia will patrol the sea lanes against Zionist piracy while China will provide financial heft.

    The only tools left in Obama’s chest are terrorism launching ICBMs. What can he really accomplish with such tools?

  5. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 5, 2013 at 7:46 am

    Without a doubt USA will choose the delusion of supremacy.

  6. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Regrettably, I agree. Regret because this delusion is the harbinger of more death and destruction for all mankind.

  7. Karl.. says:

    US wont change until someone “defeat” them or if they face huge loss.

  8. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 5, 2013 at 10:29 am

    The death and destruction will be mostly in the Middle East.

  9. fyi says:

    All:

    Another pessimistic assessment with which I agree:

    http://news.yahoo.com/iran-seeking-content-nuclear-talks-162601248.html

  10. James Canning says:

    I do not see the agreement to get rid of Syria’s CW as a “debacle” for Obama. Fortuitous turn of events, in my view.

  11. James Canning says:

    I think Obama should let the Russians continue to take the lead is the pursuit of a negotiated resolution of the civil war in Syria. And Obama should drop the demand Bashar al-assad agree to abandon power, as a precondition.

  12. James Canning says:

    China is the largest buyer of oil from the Persian Gulf and in that way, a beneficiary of such stability as obtains due to huge US military presence in the ME.

    I think Obama is willing to accept Iranian enrichment to low levels. This in my view should be a sufficent recognition of Iran’s domestic nuclear power programme, to enable a deal to be made with P5+1.

  13. James Canning says:

    “Understanding Iran Ahead of Geneva Talks Round II”, by Farideh Farhi:

    http://www.lobelog.com/setting-the-stage-for-round-ii-of-iran-nuclear-talks-in-geneva/#more-21707

  14. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    American public opinion did not favor US intervention in Syrian civil war. And does not. Obviously, recognition of the idiotic military adventure in Iraq plays a large role in this.

  15. Karl.. says:

    James

    Who cares what Obama thinks? Who cares about Netanyahu or any other warmongers “thinks”. Are you like the racist Sherman denying that Iran have rights?
    Since you ignored the last time I asked, do you admit that if UK is part of creating an embargo on Iran which is an act of war, Iran has the right to strike brittish targets? Or, again, are you like the racist Sherman denying that Iran have the right to use int. law?

    And why would Obama accept to keep Assad? You make no sense.

  16. fyi says:

    All:

    Mr. Gelb on Syria:

    http://www.cfr.org/syria/long-reach-syrian-peace/p31792

    His excuse:

    “…in countries like Syria …we don’t know them. To us, they’re really strategic squares on a chessboard rather than countries with cultures and histories … we’ve made terrible investments and helped to cause a great deal of harm.”

    “What price Israel?” one is forced to ask.

  17. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    The benefit to the US from a stable Syria to me seems obvious. Whether the Syrian government could reclaim control over the entire country is of course in doubt to some degree. I do not see an overthrow of the Syrian government as likely to produce a stable Syria.

    Due to fears of possible war with Iran, the Saudis (and other Gulf Arabs) are pressuring Obama to insist on success for the revolution. Even if the eventual outcome cannot be known.

    I said that a blockade of Iranian oil exports could be taken as an act of war by Iran. This in turn could lead to hostilies with a number of countries. Whether such hostilities would be in Iran’s best interests is highly doubtful.

  18. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    There are many Americans who recognise the rich history and culture of Syria, and Leslie Gelb I think obviously is aware of that fact. Gelb is also aware of how incredibly ignorant too many Americans are, howeever. Scores of millions of Americans do not know Iran and Iraq are different countries.

    I feared civil war in Syria because I was sure it would lead to extensive damage to historical sites, architecture etc etc etc.

  19. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    That Leslie Gelb can see it would be better for the US for Syrian government to win the civil war, than for al-Qaeda and chaos to be the rule in Syria, is a good thing.

  20. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Jimmy Carter is a friend of Bashar al-Assad and was a friend of Assad’s father. And Carter is of course reviled by most of the Israel lobby in the US. We should remember Obama was afraid to let Carter address the Democratic National Convention, in person.

  21. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Iran of course has rights under the NPT, and it is a commentary on current politics in the US that Iran is not able to insist on full excercise of those rights.

  22. Karl.. says:

    James

    Good that you admit that UK might commit an act of war against Iran and that Iran have the right to defend itself against the UK.

    US want to get rid of Assad, that you now say that US want Assad in power makes no sense at all. Stable? Syria was stable before US, UK, France and some other regimes began to support violent groups trying to overthow Assad.

  23. Smith says:

    Another reason why Iran needs to pour more money into R&D and develop its own satellite broadcast platforms beaming Iranian TV directly into American and European homes: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/05/us-iran-rights-ebadi-idUSBRE9A314320131105

  24. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I think the US should want Syrian government to prevail in the civil war. Should want. I of course opposed the civil war, and deeply regret it erupted. I think the US did not deal with Syria in the way it should have, after Obama entered the White Hose. Some good moves were made, by Obama’s team. But we should remember that Iran’s announcement of intent to treble production of 20% U did agreat deal to wreck Obama’s plan to improve relations with Syria and Iran.

  25. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Syrian government made some very bad mistakes, in dealing with the unrest that in turn grew out of economic problems. These mistakes led directly to the insurgency. Which would have been crushed, obviously, without aid from other countries to the various rebel groups.

  26. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    I agree with you it would be a good thing if Iranian TV could reach American and European audiences.

  27. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    The “act of war” likely would be british and French support for an American-led blockade of Iran’s oil exports. (If no deal of any sort is made with P5+1)

  28. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 5, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Again, Americans went wantonly harming another sovereign state essentially because she was an enemy of Israel.

    Now they are having second thoughts about its wisdom.

    Tens of thousands are dead, 6 million people are displaced and what Americans say is “ooops!, we did not mean that.”

    Insane.

    Welcome to the Halls of the Mad King.

  29. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 5, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    You cannot make any lasting deal with the cunningly insane.

  30. Karl.. says:

    James

    And the riots in 2011 in the UK are to be blamed on the economic failures of the Cameron gov?

    First of all its act of war, not ” act of war ” besides there will be no “support” there will certainly be brittish military blocking the oil shipments along with americans etc.

  31. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 5, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    So, we agree that Mr. Obama is a weak leader beholden to the denizens of Highland Park and Lake Forest.

    That is fine.

    It is also insane.

  32. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    November 5, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    I agree, UK will not participate in any military action against Iran.

    French gladly would.

  33. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I thought Obama showed strength, in declining to attack Syria despite heavy pressure to do so.

    Are the Democrats dependent upon Jewish finance, for electoral success in national US elections? Answer is a robust YES. Does this mean Obama is a “weak” leader? Yes, to some extent. The Israel lobby has a great deal of input in the choice of Obama’s advisers. Sad fact of political life in America.

    I do think Obama is strong enough to make a deal with Iran, allowing low-level enrichment.

  34. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I agree Britain would not attack Iran. Unless Iran attacked British forces or assets first.

    France was eager to attack Syria.

  35. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I understand that much of the impetus for the 2011 riots came from opportunists who in fact were not suffering economically. Fun and games for some of these idiots.

    Did you say you would expect UK participation in any blockade, assuming Iran fails to make a deal with Eu3+3 and keeps stockpiling etc etc?

  36. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    There are reasons for various US policies in the ME, even if those policies often work against each other. I would not ascribe Obama or his advisers as insane. Foolish sometimes, of course.

  37. Karl.. says:

    James

    As I thought you are a hypocrite here too, when it happens in Syria it is the fault of Assad, when it happens in the UK its the fault of the protesters, still UK faced not 1 percentage of what Syria have endured.

    Yes UK will participate in a war, such an act of war (blockade) gives Iran to strike UK interests.

  38. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 5, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Not at all – no one is responsible, come off it man.

    I do not need Leslie Gelb telling me that Axis Powers Syrian policy was a disaster-in-making; I said as much 2 years ago.

    They are mad as hatters.

    Heaven only knows how many years of bloodshed and violence is in store for the people of the Middle East at the hands of the Mad King.

    There is no end in sight, that is for certain.

  39. James Canning says:

    “U.S.- Iran Poised for Breakthrough on Nuclear Issue”, by Jim Lobe:

    http://www.lobelog.com/u-s-iran-poised-for-breakthrough-on-nuclear-issue/#more-21703

  40. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I too saw “disaster in the making”, in Syria. Years ago.

    Leslie Gelb’s opinion is likely to carry more weight with Obama’s team, than that provided by either of us.

  41. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You continue to ignore Iran’s role in creating the catastrophe in Syria.

  42. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    To say that the Syrian government made serious mistakes, prior to the eruption of the vicious civil war, is not to claim the Syrian government should be blamed for causing that war. Obviously, this was not the intent of the Syrian government.

    Surely you do not argue the Syrian government made no mistakes that helped to bring on civil war. Or do you?

  43. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I expect (or suspect) some of the leaders of demonstrations etc in Syria, prior to eruption of civil war, may have hoped to set off such a war.

    I doubt they were doing it for entertainment. In UK, some of the instigators admitted they were doing it for entertainment and profit (by looting stores, etc etc).

  44. Fiorangela says:

    Leslie Gelb makes a career of wringing his hands over his and his colleagues’ cowardice in failing to oppose killing thousands of people.

  45. Karl.. says:

    James

    So its ok aslong as protesters arent doing it for entertainemnt?
    Surely you do not argue that Cameron made no mistakes that helped to bring protests. Or do you?

  46. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2013 at 3:06 pm
    “I agree, UK will not participate in any military action against Iran.

    French gladly would.”

    On this you might be right ,but what is your reason for such statement. I don’t care how old you are but did you ever learned you need to back up statements with some evidence, fact or simple reasoning even call it a personal opinion, etc.?

    This act of yours is the very Iranian that you want to be changed but obviously except for you.

  47. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I think most of the economic and banking mistakes were made by the Labour government, prior to Cameron’s entry to Downing Street. Not that more mistakes have not taken place.

  48. Empty says:

    Thank you for the article. On the statement “….that, beyond transitory executive branch initiatives, lifting or even substantially modifying U.S. sanctions to support diplomatic progress will take congressional action.” It is profound to notice how the substance of the United States system and constitution has changed: it used to be that “declaration of war” had to be an act of congress. Now, “declaration of peace” has become an act of congress. It shows how low a “representative” system can sink. Note to those who blindly worship “republicanism” as if it could not go wrong.

  49. Empty says:

    Bussed in Bassiji,

    Dear brother, regarding the first issue your raised in the previous post, given that I have understood you do believe in ولایت فقیه, I would refer you to the guidelines provided by him. What you must consider (if I understood your position with respect to ولی correctly) is that would he consider the use of such phrases given the current socio-political environment and given your open declaration of the rightfulness of his position جائز or not جائز.

    With regard to the second question you raised, about “gooz-pich” I believe this is a tough one. We do not have enough information to determine the proper status for it. For the first part, we need the volumetric pressure, the diameter of inner tubing, the strength of the noise and the lambda of the waves given the non-sinusoidal nature of the waves produced by such phenomena. For the second part, we certainly need the numbers and sharpness of the curvature, the tangent lines to each curve, the curvature’s constant to determine the rotation. Frankly, in vivo measurement is next to impossible as we do not have access to those who might be afflicted by such disorder; nor do we have the technology to perform such measurements in a live person. In vitro measurement amounts to قتل نفس not to mention a moot point as the disorder exists so long as the “carrier” exists.

    So, on your second request, I cannot offer much but to say it’s wise to err on the side of caution (precautionary principle) when we are not sure of the جائز بودن and/or جائز نبودن of the matter and use alternative methodologies to fulfill our responsibilities of countering illogical statements.

    We live in a complicated times, brother. Very complicated times indeed.

  50. Karl.. says:

    James
    November 5, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Cameron’s failure with the economy caused it. Its like people who try to blame Bush for what Obama does today.

  51. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    November 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    There was a revolt of the peasants in UK.

    They are broke as well and are reducing their military forces.

    They do not have the money or the popular support for the long hazardous blockade duty in the Persian Gulf – which at a short notice could turn into a war.

    Furthermore, once it was clear that the economic war against Iran had failed to destroy the government, the English leaders understood that it was time to revise the approach to Iran.

    The English are very empirical and mostly are interested in material benefits – very little ideological commitment in that country to any set of political ideas or ideals except their own English Constitution.

    Lastly, the polity is not dominated by the Champions of Israel – UK leaders are not in a religious war with Islam on behalf of the Jewish project in Palestine.

    That distinction singularly applies to the United States.

    France is different in that they are part and parcel of the same support of Israel as US. They are arrogant and much less empirical than the English – more emotional – no doubt.

    They still have a residual ability to fight away from their own shores and are entertaining the fantasy that they are still a power to be reckoned with.

    Lastly, they are angry at Iranians – because of Iran they have absorbed self-inflicted losses that they hoped to recoup quickly after the Iranian collapse. And because Iranians pushed them out of Lebanon as well.

    It is an emotional decision for them to go to war with Iran.

    The English are bastards who at least are willing to alter their policies when reality changes – the French are nasty and will not until others change.

  52. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 5, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Look, Axis Powers and USSR had a choice to make when the Shah of Iran was overthrown in a popular revolution; accept that Iran and Iranians were re-asserting their own tradition, culture, etc. or go about opposing it.

    They chose to oppose the Iranians’ Will to Independent Power.

    Everything else followed from that decision made in 1979.

    Furthermore, you cannot go and despise, denigrate, humiliate and materially harm another polity & state – with a long history of statehood and attendant power – and expect them not to fight back and re-double their efforts at reassertion of the Will to Power.

    As I see it. Axis Powers and Russia are still on the same trajectory with Iran as they were for the last 100 years.

    Well, that world is dead and the power to undo Iranian Independence does not exist in the international arena.

    Do not expect any kindness or magnanimity from Iran and the Iranian people – they will never go back to the days of the Monarchy (Qajar or Pahlavi) nor will they be amenable to let bygones be bygone. Iranians have been trained well by Axis Powers and USSR/Russia.

  53. fyi says:

    All:

    This is a useful approach – which will not find acceptance in the Court of the Mad King since it is too sensible:

    http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/escaping-false-choices-the-middle-east-9364

  54. M.Ali says:

    I find the discussion on usage of correct terms between Empty & BiB to be interesting.

    On one hand, we have Khameinei’s fatwa of a while ago, where he requested the Shias not to insult figures the Sunnis hold dear. To me, what was important about the Fatwa was not that there was a theoritical change in the historical rifts between the two schools, but that it was an initiative to not use phrases that causes unnecessary conflicts.

    On the other hand, we Iranians already hide what we want to say behind so many layers of prose, that it is really difficult to understand what anyone ACTUALLY MEANS, so a bit of directness helps. Which is one of the reasons Ahmednijad is one of my favorite Presidents, because he didn’t shy away from talking directly, given Iran’s (and other countries’) historical trail of politicians who talk without actually saying anything.

    And as aside, here’s something to add to the complexity. In one of the hadiths (I don’t know if the Shias accept this hadith), but someone insulted Prophet Mohammad and the Muslims, by saying, “”O Muhammad! Won’t you feel any scruple in extirpating your relations? Have you ever heard of anyone amongst the Arabs extirpating his relatives before you? On the other hand, if the reverse should happen, (nobody will aid you, for) by Allah, I do not see (with you) dignified people, but people from various tribes who would run away leaving you alone.””

    Abu Bakr responded by saying, ““Go suck the clitoris of al-Lat! Would we flee and leave him?”

    And as no where in that hadith shows that Prophet Mohammad disclipined or lectured Abu Bakr on this, one would think that Prophet Mohammad was not as sensitive to Abu Bakr saying it as one would think.

    What does this then say? Can one then expand on BiB’s previous post about how one can use insults when faced with statements or stances that deserve it?

  55. fyi says:

    M.Ali says:

    November 6, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Do you need a the crutches of a hadith of dubious provenance to be polite?

    Americans are always polite even when they vehemently disagree with you.

    I guess they do not hadiths that permits them to be rude and obnoxious.

  56. M.Ali says:

    fyi, Americans and Europes in general, have a history of being dubious and extremely impolite to each other and other races. They have so many derogatory terms for other races, that it is a struggle to translate them into every farsi.

    How do you translate nigger, coon, crow, uncle tom, jim crow, mammy, nigglet, spade, jigaboo, jungle bunny and tar baby into farsi?

    How about nip, Jap, ching-chong, chink, and gook?

    Or how can you explain to a farsi speaker that in the west, instead of calling a Pakistani person a Pakistani, they say “Pak” in a negative manner?

    Try to sit with an Iranian that has no exposure to the west, and explain to them what exactly wop, wog, greasball, and dango is.

    Can you explain to a Iranian girl and boy what exactly is a towelhead, or explain to them that when an American is calling everyone a Haji, he or she is not exactly saying it with respect?

    So, please, I know you draw uncle sam with a heart around him in your notebook all day, but it takes some kind of strange dillusion to somehow claim that Americans are the pinnacle of politeness. It is Iranians who are polite to, in my opinion, an annoying fault.

  57. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Empty-jan,

    Very very funny.

    We also have “asle bara’at” that when you are not sure of the hukm you are free. In other words if you are not sure of the hukm you don’t need to do ihtiyat.

    In our case, I could continue to use “gooz-pich” until it is proven qati that it is not matlub.

    Orfan “gooz-pich” is not considered a curse word, no?

    One might not say it at a khastegari when talking about the feeling of one’s stomach during the khastegari when speaking to one’s potential future mother-in-law, but if the khastegari is successful and one gets married and then one is talking privately to one’s wife and one said that “I was really gooz-pich the night we came for khastegari, but I’m so happy we got married…” orf wouldn’t say you have “cursed”.

    What do you think?

    M.Ali,

    Yes the fatwa on this matter was very important.

    Of course the devil is in the details. I think it’s clear that cursing or calling the various personalities names is clearly against the fatwa.

    But how about a case like this: “Abu Bakr, Omar and later Uthman illegally took/usurped the leadership of the Ummat from Ali and illegally took Fadak from Fatima which was her private property given to her by the the Prophet.”

    Would this be “offensive”?

    Iranians usually have a major problem with people, movements, customs etc. that are direct and delineating. This is partly why Fars people have problems wit Turks or Lurs, because they are more direct.

    They love masmali (some would call it “goh-mali”) and things to always remain “grey”. The reason is that it allows them to never reveal there real thoughts and views. In the Quran this called “nefaq”.

    It’s either that or the total opposite meaning totally loving polarization and polarizing figures like Imam Ali (as), Nader, Reza Khan or Imam Khomeini (ra).

    I’m of the second type. Clear enough?

    In Shia fiqh there is rule that if the Prophet (sawas) or Imams (as) do not discipline or reprimand a person for an action in their presence, this is considered strong daleel that this action is permissible. The daleel is of enough strength that fuqaha can base fatwas on it. It’s called “taqrir”.

    The rule is based on the kalaami point that the Prophet (sawas) and Imams (as) are there to guide the people and thus it is wajib on them to point out to people if certain behavior is not permissible.

    I haven’t seen the hadith you mentioned in Shia books, but if it is sahih than the lack of reprimand by the Prophet (sawas) is evidence of the permissibility of such an action. It could be makruh, but it’s not haraam. Whether a faqih says it haraam as a sanavi matter is another issue.

  58. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Gooz-pich-jan,

    Look what crawled out of the backside of the polite Americans…

    Was that offensive? Sorry, really…

    Let’s see how the Vietnamese feel about American politeness…or the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the Chileans or the Indonesians…and alas your compatriots the Iranians.

    Do you want to visit with the old lady whose husband was killed by CIA interrogators in the SAVAK prison? They were so polite when they killed him…

    How about the old man whose fingernails were pulled out by “Jim” your friendly US torturer. Oh so polite…

    Khaf-e khoon!

    No. I don’t think that was offensive enough given the crap that you spread.

    You need to spend some time with a therapist or else we need to start charging you for listening to your crap.

  59. fyi says:

    M.Ali says:

    November 6, 2013 at 10:44 am

    My point was very clear: one does not need the guidance of a hadith to be a decent normal human being.

    If you really need to model yourself after someone, try Luqman.

  60. Fiorangela says:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/174442077/Letter-to-the-President-October-2013

    a month ago 35 people signed a letter to Pres Barack Obama applauding his decision to engage in diplomacy with Iran

  61. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Oh, dear fyi, you are wasting your time and wisdom on hypocrites. Remember the story of kerm e shabtab, boozineh and the wise man in kalileh va demneh. It is the same here.

    These people are shameless. They are trying to prove that Prophet (PBUH), his companions and Imams were all foul mouthed and using the most dirty, sexual profanities and expletives to preach the word of God. As I had diagnosed them before, they are all old hypocrites destined for hell.

    These matters are not simple. Neither as per Islam these matters are for simplification such as amr be ma’aroof and nahi az monkar. Using degrading words (whether sexual or not) for another person (even for non-muslims) in Islam is a criminal offense with clear cut punishment for it (lashes till the back skin comes off the flesh). If for some reason, for example because Islam is not being implemented due to the fact that the person who is doing such criminal offense is himself a hakem e zaalem then, his punishment is exceedingly more severe in the next world. That is why we have the day of judgement for. Every one will answer for his deeds there according to responsibilities he had in this world. Thankfully we did not have such “responsibilities” as to torture and then rape people in prison in the name of Allah and his Prophets.

    The people who do not have thought processes and have rejected logic for the past 800 years can not be expected to be able to take part in reasonable discussions or accept any logical criticism. Their response as can be seen here, is going to be personal attacks, sexual expletives, coprophiliac behavior and trying to prove that even Imam Ali (as) was like them using sexual expletives for mothers of other people. Surely God is the witness here for their transgressions, irrespective of whether they have any faith left in their blackened hearts.

    And like always, I thank you for the wisdom, thoughtfulness and logic that you bring to this discussion. Unlike the hypocrite liars.

  62. James Canning says:

    The Wall Street Journal today has a report on the recent meeting convened by the IAEA, in quest of nuclear-free zone in the Middle East.

  63. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    My understanding is that the number of Iranians assassinated or tortured by government agents actually increased, after the 1979 revolution.

  64. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Michael J. Totten puts out a great deal of rubbish. Daniel Larison at the American Conservative does a good job of ripping him to shreds, from time to time.

    Totten claims: “Obviously it’s in the [US’s] best interests to see [Bashar al-Assad] defeated.” Pure cr*p. It may be arguable, but it is not “obvious” by a very long shot. Totten fails to mention the national security threat to American interests, posed by Israeli nukes, Israel’s illegal colonisation programme in the West Bank, etc etc.

  65. Fiorangela says:

    Last week, Panelists discussed possibilities for a breakthrough in U.S.-Iran relations. The panelists, including

    –Hooshang Amirahmadi former Iranian presidential candidate and founder and President of the American Iranian Council;

    –William Green Miller, Political Officer (Former) U.S. Embassy, Tehran; and

    –Andrew Parisaliti, Editor and CEO Al-Monitor,

    talked about maintaining the momentum created by the election of the moderate Hassan Rouhani as Iranian president, President Obama’s engagement policy with Tehran, and recent events in Geneva and at the United Nations General Assembly. WINEP’s Patrick Clawson was a last-minute addition to the panel.

    They focused on the upcoming November 7, 2013, round of talks in Geneva about Iran’s nuclear program. 

    Topics included the effectiveness of sanctions, Iran’s links to terrorist groups, human rights, and relations with Syria and Israel. 

    The event was titled, “New Leadership in Tehran: Time for Rapprochement?” sponsored by the George Washington University International Affairs Society and the American Iranian Council, was held at at the university’s Elliott School of International Affairs.

    http://c-spanvideo.org/program/GWUN

    In response to the question, “Have sanctions been effective in getting Iran to the negotiating table?”, panelist responses ranged across the spectrum. Clawson said Yes, they did (using a lot more words). Dr. Amirahmadi, who is a professor of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers, answered the question more analytically. First, he conceded Clawson’s points that the Iranian rial is greatly devalued, unemployment is high, and Iran’s economy is struggling. These things are partly attributable to the sanctions, but also due to years of mismanagement by Iran’s governors and policy choices. Then, Dr. Amirahmadi defined the putative goal of the sanctions: to cause Iran to cease enriching uranium. Iran has NOT ceased enriching uranium, therefore, it cannot be said that the sanctions have succeeded. Furthermore, AIC’s president added, sanctions have shown themselves to be counterproductive, unless the goal is to punish the Iranian people, and additional sanctions will not work.

    In a recent interview with Scott Horton, Nima Shirazi echoed Dr. Amirahmadi’s assessment of sanctions as the causal agent for Iran’s presence at negotiations.

    http scotthorton dot org/2013/11/03/110313-nima-shirazi/

    Finally, in an email blast this afternoon J Street’s Jeremy Ben Ami echoed Clawson’s opinion (duh) —

    “International sanctions – carefully orchestrated by the Obama administration and supported by J Street – have had their desired effect. Iran has come to the negotiating table with a seriousness of purpose worth exploring.”

    but cautioned that US Senate actions to increase sanctions just at this time were misguided.

  66. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Russia would like to see better relations between Iran and the US, and a reduction in sanctions that would allow a significant increase in Iranian oil and gas production. even if this would tend to lower prices, to the disadvantage of Russia.

    Iran would be much stronger today if it had not restarted enriching uranium. You do not like this fact, but it obviously is true. Russia and the US would welcome a stronger Iran. Provided it is not trying to build nukes etc etc.

  67. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You discount too greatly the effect of the programme of assassinations carried out by Iran after the revolution, on a global scale.

    Perhaps I should add that Cyrus Vance, Zbig Brzezinski and other advisers to Jimmy Carter misunderstood the purpose and intent of the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union in 1979.

  68. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    An interesting fact to ponder is that Rangoon (Yangon), Burma, now has some of the highest rents in the world, for first-class office space. Due to economic growth since the government changed course and achieved suspension or elimination of sanctions. Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City also have very high rents.

  69. M.Ali says:

    “Fyi,

    My point was very clear: one does not need the guidance of a hadith to be a decent normal human being.

    If you really need to model yourself after someone, try Luqman.”

    You mentioned how Americans were so beautiful polite, which I think is not only wrong, but it shows a strange case of self-hating Iranian, to somehow claim that Americans are models of politeness, compared to Iranians.

    Then you say that “one does not need the guidance of a hadith to be a decent normal human being.” How can you talk so much about Islam and religion and then say that? Then whats the point of hadith if not to help Muslims be a better person?

    And if you recommending me to model after someone, you don’t want it to be Prophet Mohammad or Ali, but Luqman?

    And Smith defending you in this point is extremely amusing. You are claiming that Americans are the pinnacle of politeness, and Smith, the one who claims that white people are all genocidal rapists, is on your side in this point? Does that mean that demon white people rape brown people politely? Talking to you twins is like falling in a vortex of contradictions.

  70. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 6, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    “Russia and the US would welcome a stronger Iran. Provided it is not trying to build nukes etc etc.”

    Rubbish!

    The present and future state security is predicated on long range nuclear munitions.

    The price paid by Iran so far is acceptable – in my view – considering the extreme dangers to her continued existence since 1998.

    I really do not care what Russian and American leader think or want – one is Mad and the other is an Opportunist.

  71. James Canning says:

    I recommend “Will Israel Go Fascist?”. by Scott McConnell:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/will-israel-go-fascist/

  72. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You may not like it, but Iran has a choice between a limited nuclear programme, or none at all. Russia and China will ensure this is what obtains, in my view.

  73. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I assume you comoprehend Iran loses perhaps $300 million per day, in lost export sales of oil and gas etc etc, due to its disputed nuclear programme.

  74. fyi says:

    M.Ali says:

    November 6, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Well, at least Luqman is mentioned in the Quran and there can be no disputations on him.

    لقمان راگفتند ادب از کی آموختی، گفت از بی ادبان

    As for US and others – who are not Muslims – there are people in the world who are in the Age of Darkness – Jahiliya – and yet are extremely polite; like the Japanese.

    Japanese evidently do not have the benefit of these hadiths of Imam Ali and Abu Bakr to learn that it is permissible to be foul-mouthed and offensive.

    Someone must take that to them and teach them to become Muslims so that they could swear with impunity in the Path of God – no doubt.

    There are lots and lots of marvelously creative swear words in Russian – they must be closet-Muslims.

  75. Karl.. says:

    James

    November 6, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Really? And what will happen? Will your dear Cameron start bombing Iran and killing iranians?

    Could Iran say that to the UK? Limit your program or we will bomb you? You need to get a grip.

  76. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 6, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    You may not like this but the power to undo nuclear Iran – as you suggest – is not available in the international arena.

    A zero-output graphite moderated reactor can be built in multiple places in Iran and its fuel reprocessed to extract plutonium bombs.

    And no system of IAEA inspection can be devised to prevent that.

    Let us come back to Reality.

    As for the billions of dollars of losses – it is acceptable when it is weighed against state security.

    It matters not what Russian and Chinese leaders want or think.

  77. Karl.. says:

    James

    November 6, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Stop saying the conflict is about nukes – go read the books by Leverett’s and you could learn something, I think Leverett’s should contemplate banning your spam on this site.

  78. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Writing in the Seattle Times recently, Bruce Ramsey made an important point that I think clearly is relevant today: that Japan’s leaders took the country to war with the US in 1941 despite being aware that war likely would be lost.

    “Japan’s culture of consenus made it difficult for the realists to challenge the dreamers. By early October 1941, Prime Minister [Prince Fumimaro] Konoe had reluctantly decided that Japan would have to concede to U.S. demands and withdraw from China – – but he kept his thoughts to himself ‘in the hope that things would get fixed in a less confrontational, more furtive manner. . .'”

    (Ramsey was revewing “Japan 1941”, by Eri Hotta)

  79. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: November 6, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    James, was Burma developing a nuclear weapon?

  80. Fiorangela says:

    James, where is the high-rent district in Libya? Iraq?

  81. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    A number of factors enter into the ME equation. One, of course, is the determination of many Israeli leaders to continue the programme of land and water theft in the West Bank. Another is fear of some Gulf Arab leaders of Shia subservrsion in Barhrain and Saudi Arabia. Yet another is concern by Russia, China and other countries, that Iran may try to get too close to ability to build nukes.

    You probably would benefit from reading “Japn 1941”, by Eri Hotta.

    Your contention Russia and China only pretend to be concerned about Iran’s nuclear pgramme is simply dead wrong.

  82. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Surely you comprehend that a number of rich and powerful Jews in the US see the Iranian nuclear dispute as offering an opportunity for pursuing regime change in Iran.
    In order to “benefit” Israel.

  83. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Have you dropped your contention that Obama has not indicated he is willing to accept Iranian enrichment to low levels?

  84. James Canning says:

    Karl,

    Full title of Eri Hotta’s book is “Japan 1941: Countdown to Infamy”.

  85. Karl.. says:

    James

    November 6, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Again you would understand that when you understand that the embargo against Japan was an act of war, just like it would be against Iran.

    November 6, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Stop diverting to “jews” all the time when cornered, the conflict isnt about nukes.

  86. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 6, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Iran is not Japan.

    Iran is not invading other countries nor has it imitated war for more than 2 centuries.

    Axis Powers are the ones who have been on the verge of bringing war to Iran – in 2006, in 2012, and now.

  87. Fiorangela says:

    James, You may be interested to read An Occupation without Troops: Wall Street’s Half-Century Domination of Japanese Politics by Glenn Davis and John G. Roberts

  88. James Canning says:

    I recommend “Nuclear issues mulled over banquets at French chateau”, by Guy Dimore (at ft.com today). Chinese effort to help resolve Iranian nuclear dispute, illuminated.

  89. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The six powers have made clear Iran will not be allowed to build nukes. You, fully aware Iran would be badly injured if hostilies erupt, urge Iran to go forward with nuclear weapons programme.

    Japan’s leaders were aware they had to get out of Indochina and China. Sadly, they chose destruction instead.

  90. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I will try to read that book soon. Given US occupation of Japan, deep involvement of “Wall Street” in Japanese politics for many decades was a given.

  91. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    “To [Gen. Hideki Tojo], the thought of [Japan’s] withdrawing from China was hateful because it meant Japan’s soldiers had died in vain.” How many tens of millions more people died, because Tojo did not like the idea of Japanese soldiers “dying in vain”?

  92. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You continue to discount by far too much, China’s deep desire Iran not build nukes.

  93. Karl.. says:

    James

    November 6, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Who did UK ask to get permission from to get nukes?

  94. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    “fyi,You continue to discount by far too much, China’s deep desire Iran not build nukes.”

    Mmmmh, surely due to Chinese jews in order to benefit Israel ?
    You racist supremacist.

    No Mr Canning it is not about jewwws. It is about Anglo supremacism, exceptionalism and deeply embeded racism.
    It is about the anglo dominated world order. No more, no less.
    The kind of world domination you deeply regret UK not to have anymore and your typically Britton projection and wet dreamed proxy domination you love to imagine through the US and what is left of the commonwealth.

    All your idiotic squirts and blathering do not hide that true fact.

    Pathetic.

  95. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You clearly do not understand what China thinks, and tries to do, even if very quietly, to resolve nuclear dispute with Iran. Full stop.

  96. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Are you trying to argue Iran should ignore the P5+1? Refuse to make a deal? On grounds the deal is “unfair”?

  97. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 6, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Let us be very clear here.

    To bring about state collapse – what you term “mortally wounded” – Axis Powers, Russia and China – alone or together – must kill between 5 to 7 percent of the Iranian population.

    That is about 4 to 5.6 million souls.

    They cannot do that without nuclear weapons.

    Russia, China, France, and UK will not be going out of their way to assist the Mad King – the Barons, the Red Emperor, and the Barons neither have the power nor the willingness to sustain a long campaign to mortally wound Iran – which they cannot do without nuclear weapons.

    Likewise for the Mad King.

    So, yes Iran will be wounded and so will the rest of the world – to different degrees.

    I expect Russia to be the great winner of such a war.

    It is a great triumph of the Russian diplomacy in which any course of action against Iran harms the other great powers and not herself – and to boot – she has made herself indispensable.

    Not that Iranian leaders care…

  98. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Do you think General Tojo was quite right, to bring catastrophe to his own country? as a matter of honour?

  99. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    “fyi,The six powers have made clear Iran will not be allowed to build nukes. You, fully aware Iran would be badly injured if hostilies erupt, urge Iran to go forward with nuclear weapons programme.Japan’s leaders were aware they had to get out of Indochina and China. Sadly, they chose destruction instead.”

    Typical crypto-neocon/crypto-fascist thinking of yours which unveils your racist and supremacist face and your full support of the anglo tribalist and racist project of exceptionalist supremacism.

    Disgusting.

  100. James Canning says:

    Syria is requesting many heavily-armoured trucks to transport Syrian CW to the coast, for export. Possibly to Albania, which has previously destroyed its own CW.

  101. Rd. says:

    “Davutoglu’s remarks represent a climbing down by Ankara from its previous hard-line policies”

    Finally?!?! Turkish leadership getting of their high horse and back to zero problem..

    Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/turkey-ties-neighbors-iran-iraq-syria-transition.html#ixzz2ju0KcD00

  102. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Preposterous, you contention (implicitly), that China is being “racist” in demanding that Iran not build nukes. “Race” has zero to do with the matter.

  103. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Perhaps you DO think China and Russia only pretend to object to the building of nukes by Iran? Is this your position?

  104. Karl.. says:

    James
    November 6, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    nico didnt even mentioned China, stop diverting and stop the dishonesty, quite pathetic if you really are the age you have told us.

  105. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    “Nico,Do you think General Tojo was quite right, to bring catastrophe to his own country? as a matter of honour?”

    Sophistic rethoric of yours as usual.
    Indeed, do YOU deem the bolivarian movement in Venezuala, Bolivia and other Southern American countries not worth to be defended by the people and government of those countries ?

    I respect anyone defendind his/her own dignity against the Anglo fascism.

  106. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    November 6, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    It is too late; with Armenia, Iraq, Iran, and Syria.

    The only one left is Greece and Azerbaijan Republic.

  107. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 4:18 pm
    “Nico,Perhaps you DO think China and Russia only pretend to object to the building of nukes by Iran? Is this your position?”

    Nonsesical and deceitfull statement of yours as usual.
    The US have been the only world super power for year. (Historic sequence soon to be ended)
    Thus the onus fall into the US lap.

  108. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    “Nico,Preposterous, you contention (implicitly), that China is being “racist” in demanding that Iran not build nukes. “Race” has zero to do with the matter.”

    Ridiculous.
    You do not even comprehend that my statement was ironic and intended to illustrate your corrupt and bankrupt logic.
    But do not fool youself I for myself fully understand who you are and the underlying supremacist and tribalist beliefs you try to hide under layers of spohism.

  109. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Nothing whatever “tribalist” about P5+1 insistence Iran not build nukes. Do I take it you concede all six powers insist Iran not build nukes?

  110. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Maybe we are getting somewhere. Are you arguing that it is only because the US insists Iran not build nukes, that the other five powers also insist Iran not build nukes?

    France has opposed any Iranian enrichment, even more aggressively than the US, in past years.

  111. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Japan had waged war on China for years, and then had also occupied Indochina. The US demanded Japan get out. “Anglofascism”, in your view?

  112. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I was trying to ascertain if Nico thinks the only reason Iran has a dispute with the six powers, is due to “Anglofascism”. (US and UK, apparently)

    Or, if Nico has hopes Iran could get away with building nukes, because China and Russia actually do not give a fig. And in fact they might tell the US to let Iran get on with it.

  113. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Yes, Japan was waging war against China and had occupied Korea.

    Iranians and the other members of the Shia Crescent are in their own countries; Axis Powers – in effect only US – have to take the war to them.

    And they will fail – whatever the latest emanation of the Court of the Mad King is.

  114. James Canning says:

    “The proposal came from the Iranian delegate [to meeting at Chateau Selore, in France], modified by the Chinese and finally agreed by the Israeli and US delegates”, [Jean-Christophe von Pfeffen] said.

    – – Guy Dinmore, writing in the Financial Times today (blog)

  115. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I would expect further sanctions (including blockade), if necessary. Decision to attack would be Iran’s. I assume Iran could not get by without oil exports.

  116. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    At this point, I imagine Bashar al-Assad is very sorry Iran decided to treble produc tion of 20% U.

  117. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Japan had annexed Korea years before Japan tried to conquer all of China. Japan could have kept Korea. (At least for a few decades more)

  118. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    My hunch is that Nouri al-Maliki would prefer Iran make a deal with P5+1.

  119. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    James, it may be the case that Israel uses its complaint about Iranian nukes, and its power in US Congress & other institutions, as its primary means of gaining and sustaining economic advantage for Israel. Pinsker was the first overt proponent of zionism (in Russia, ~1884, some years before Herzl). He had a litany of arguments to incite his fellows to zionism, but he always included the caution that “it will cost a lot of money.” Of course. Obviously. Zionism patterned many of its actions on US colonization, but Israel does not have nearly the economic resources as the American continent — the zionist settlements tried to survive on oranges for over 30 years, and much of THAT trade was stolen from indigenous Arabs who had been raising/trading oranges and olives for decades/centuries.

    Only in the last 20 or 30 years has Israel felt itself to have attained some economic stability, by means of technology. The biggest boost to Israel’s technological boom was the migration of about half-a-million highly educated Russians, a large number of whom were NOT Jewish. They brought with them to Israel knowledge that Russian taxpayers expended $4 to $5 billion to endow them with; Israel paid not a shekel for this huge knowledge base.

    But that boon is nearly 30 years old and Israeli universities are not able to keep up in order to sustain the technological advantage.

    Iran is probably in the best position to give Israel a serious run for the money, if Iran’s full intellectual/technological capacity and dynamism were unleashed. That is why Israel’s assassination of a young nuclear scientist is so significant: While Israelis demand that doors to US and European universities be wide open to young Jews and Israelis, and scream antisemitism if they are not, Israel intimidates youngsters from other nations, even within their own countries, and manipulates events to destabilize the “competition.”
    Where I grew up, we called it cheating when, rather than training and playing your hardest, or studying and performing your best, you tried to ‘win’ by undermining the competition. And our mantra was, Winners never cheat and cheaters never win.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/06/us-eu-israel-relations-idUSBRE9A50M120131106

  120. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I think you are quite right to see Israel as exploiting the Iranian nuclear dispute to gain unfair advantages in various ways etc etc. Par for the course, some might say.

    You might enjoy Guy Dinmore’s blog post (at ft.com Nov 6), on the meeting in France seeking a common position on way forward in the Iranian nuclear dispute. Iranian and Israeli delegates to the meeting.

  121. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Re: colonisation, one thinks of the scene in New Orleans, in the early 1820s. Various opportunists saw the chance to take 30 or 40 thousand colonists to Texas, and then to secede from Mexico and join the US. Which, over time, they of course did. Advancing the cause of slavery was part of the agenda, for some of the promoters.

  122. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Curiously, the former Crown Prince of Naples was one of the more aggessive promoters of the scheme. (Nephew of Napoleon Bonaparte, who of course sold New Orleans to the US.)

  123. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    BTW, I understand William Hague told the Israelis to stop assassinating Iranian scientists.

  124. Smith says:

    fyi,

    How credible do you think this is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24823846

    Do you think Iran has to worry and prepare for such a happening?

  125. Smith says:

    Deal being offered is this: Complete suspension and then roll back of Iran’s nuclear program in return for peanuts and khorosqandi. Congratulations: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/world/middleeast/west-close-to-temporary-nuclear-deal-with-iran-official-says.html?_r=0

  126. Smith says:

    US doesn’t recognize any country’s inherent right to enrich: http://backchannel.al-monitor.com/index.php/2013/11/6860/us-sees-outline-of-potential-2-phase-iran-nuclear-deal/

    As can be seen, this problem has no solution short of Iran building an arsenal of long range nuclear munitions. Those who think otherwise are either hypocrites or imbeciles.

  127. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “Nico,Nothing whatever “tribalist” about P5+1 insistence Iran not build nukes. Do I take it you concede all six powers insist Iran not build nukes?”

    I just answered that question previously. No need to discuss it further

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Nico,Maybe we are getting somewhere. Are you arguing that it is only because the US insists Iran not build nukes, that the other five powers also insist Iran not build nukes?
    France has opposed any Iranian enrichment, even more aggressively than the US, in past years.”

    I just answered that question previously and no need to discuss it further.

    France is absolutely irrelevant at world stage.
    The french leadership in power are bunch of traitor and sold out to anglo interests.
    But nationalistic movement is growing and the poodles are soon to have their ass kicked out of the country.
    I predict that France will be out of the Euro in less than a decade and that will be the end of the proven US conspiracy to enslave European countries through the EU tool and the US/free trade aagreement.

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm
    “Nico,Japan had waged war on China for years, and then had also occupied Indochina. The US demanded Japan get out. “Anglofascism”, in your view?”

    You are clueless.
    But I see that I need to connect the dot as your are an idiot
    You are truly a fascist when you compare Japan to Iran. While Iran has not invadee any other country contrary to the US on proven fabricated lies and excusez to assert their dominance and satisfy their thirst of blood.
    What is fascist is your open approval of such rationale as the necon and other fascists that Iran is a threat not by its deed but by its intriksic existence.
    While of course you consider the anglo empire intrinsically good (that is efeptional) whatever its deeds.

    Come to earth poor fool.

  128. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 5:39 pm
    No I imagine hes very angry at his arab and turkish neighbors for their support for the local and foreign insurgents who are trying to destroy syria,and hes no doubt very grateful for irans backing and support

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 1:29 pm
    “Iran would be much stronger today if it had not restarted enriching uranium”
    You keep on repeating this but that does not make it true.Iran may have been richer,but that does not mean it would have been stronger

    James Canning says:
    November 6, 2013 at 1:29 pm
    “Russia and the US would welcome a stronger Iran” where on earth do you get that idea from?,you make these claims without a shred of evidence to back them up

  129. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Look in my opinion you are right on some and wrong on some points.
    You are right about UK is not that she doesn’t want a war is because she is physically and financially is incapable of going to war against a large nationalist state, and that’s the reason not her peasants like in your racial tune.

    The France case is similar but ad to that the usual incompetence of thte French military that has been always there even during Napoleon. France is only capable of having war against small insurgent tugs, they know they can’t and wouldn’t win wars except against small insurgencies, in recent history they haven’t been in any serious war that they won and French people so calculated and opportunist they are know that. They are political whores and all they do is talk like if they matter. I know a lot of French and have a lot of friends there, as whole the French are too incompetent to worry Iran.

  130. Rehmat says:

    In September 2010, during his address to the UN General Assembly, Iranian President Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad suggested that a United Nations’ independent commission be set-up to clear the fog around the tragic events on September 11, 2001. In response to his suggestion, he was called ‘lunatic’ by Barack Obama and the rest of American Zionist poodles.

    In September 2012, Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnisota and ex-navi SEAL told Piers Morgan on CNN that the “official 9/11 story” is a big lie. In response Morgan called Ventura “a crackpot”. During the same month, Piers Morgan also interviewed Iran’s former president Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad – and found him “charming”.

    Now, Russian Television (RT) has released a video, claiming that 9/11 was an “inside job”.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/11/07/rt-911-was-a-false-flag-operation/

  131. Smith says:

    Gallup polls released today: http://www.gallup.com/poll/165743/iranians-say-sanctions-hurting-livelihoods.aspx

    * Iranians overwhelmingly support the nuclear program

    * Iranians hurt by sanctions

    * Iranians overwhelmingly blame United States for sanctions

  132. Smith says:

    Meanwhile in North Korea, the dear leader gets honored with a PhD in economics: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/world/asia/following-dear-leader-kim-jong-un-gets-title-from-university-dr-leader.html

    Dead Qadaffi and sons must be looking at him with awe and lots of jealousy. After all NATO is a coward as a wet mouse when it comes to nuclear armed nations.

  133. Dan Cooper says:

    On November 4th, Iranian lawyer and the 2003 Nobel Laureate announced that the United States and Europe should ban Iran from using broadcast satellites. Censor them, is what this ‘human rights’ advocate is suggesting.

    Ebadi was given the Noble Peace prize in 2003. No longer a judge, Ebadi dedicated her time to defending the rights of all those opposed to the Islamic Republic of Iran at the exclusion of the rights of all Iranians and Iran. She was awarded a Nobel Peace prize in 2003.

    This ‘human rights advocate and attorney further opined that the United States should use VOA and Radio Farda to reach Iranians inside Iran ‘”to convince them that the sanctions are targeted at the regime and not the ordinary Iranians”. (Perhaps she is of the opinion that had VOA broadcasted into Iraq, the lives of 500,000 children would have been spared by sanctions. ) However, in spite of daily broadcast into Iran, sanctions continue to take lives. No amount of radio wave has managed to save lives.

    One has to wonder what will be the next game plan for this ‘human rights’ activist who advocates death (sanctions) and censorship.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36773.htm

    By Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich

  134. Shabnamestari says:

    The United States increasingly sees democratically ruled nations as an strong obstacle to the expansion of Chinese political influence. Naturally, the US prefers to support aspiration for a democracy compared to the Saudi style absolutist monarchy. Therefore, it is important to dismantle the menacing Saudi support for terrorism in the region by removing the Saudi monarchy itself from power through joint Iran and US cooperation. Also, Turkey has become too cozy with the Saudi monarchy and itself is also distancing from democratic values towards Talibanization of Turkey which has already alarmed the US. Unfortunately, the Turkish Taliban regime have been offered open doors by China as evident by a recent big military cooperation deal between China and Turkey. This has alarmed the US and turned it into an urgent matter to mend ties with Iran which acts like a land bridge between Turkey and China. Of course, China is targeting Iran too.

    A few years ago, Turkey’s Taliban regime had a joint air force drill in Turkey with China. The Chinese fighters flew out of China and refueled in Iran on their way to Turkey. Therefore, it is extremely urgent for the US to mend ties with Iran and do not allow the Chinese gain a foothold in Turkey or Iran.

    The US as a nation is too young to have experienced devastation on the scale Iran has experienced many times in its history. Only seven hundred years ago,the Uzbek Taimur caught Iran unprepared with his massive assault on Iran. The United States must never allow a power (China, Russia alliance ) get in a position to deny the US the freedom to conduct its affairs in the world.

  135. Kathleen says:

    Share share and share everywhere the sane and factual pieces that the Leverett’s write wherever and whenever you can. Thank you for these sane voices when we hear NPR’s Terry Gross, guest on NPR’s Diane Rehm show, at times Rachel Maddow repeat so many unsubstantiated claims about Iran. Thank you to the brave MSNBC Chris Hayes who called one of the warmongers nutty Sheldon Adelson out for his completely insane statement about how Obama should drop a nuke on Tehran. Enough

  136. Kathleen says:

    Mondoweiss captures Adelson’s insane comments
    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/adelson-nuclear-negotiate.html

    Chris Hayes picks up the story. Will never witness the so called liberal Rachel Maddow touch this issue honestly.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/adelsons-moment-stories.html

  137. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Excellent observation!

    Perhaps you already know this, but Iran obtained graphite-based reactor technology from Chinese in the 1990s and used her expertise to make significant advances in the early 2000s.

  138. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 6, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    This has been floated many times before; I imagine to frighten someone – who exactly I cannot tell.

    At some point all of these types of propaganda could have played some useful role in frightening Iranian.

    But since August 21, 2013, there is no longer any doubt as to the where US is going – war with Iran at any opportune moment that Providence supplies.

    That is, there is no longer any strategic ambiguity in that Iran will be attacked – as long as the Mad King rules – it is now only a question of when.

    Under such a certainty, whatever Saudi Arabia does is of very distant concern.

  139. fyi says:

    Shabnamestari says:

    November 6, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    If the King were sane, what you wrote would have made sense.

  140. fyi says:

    All:

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/iran-p5-arak-nuclear-sanctions.html

    Again – Iranian have to be technologically crippled (Arak in this case).

  141. kooshy says:

    Very interesting description of behind the seen negotiations
    Bibijon do you think someone’s dozari in DC has finally fallen (clicked), what’s your 2 cents (douzari) on this?

    U.S.-Iran Thaw Grew From Years Of Behind-the-Scenes Talks
    Secret Efforts Planted Seeds for Obama Call With Rouhani

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181710805094376

  142. Karl.. says:

    James

    China isnt part of “anglo-interests”.
    Cameron didnt want Israel to murder scientists? You believe that yourself?! UK is itself engaged in subversion in Iran. Enough of your lies!

  143. Karl.. says:

    fyi

    November 6, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    P5+1 have nothing to offer and they want Iran to change no matter what. Tommorow we know the result of the talks..

  144. Sammy says:

    kooshy says:
    November 7, 2013 at 12:27 am

    kooshy can you please copy /paste the wsj article , I cannot open it , thanks.

  145. kooshy says:

    U.S.-Iran Thaw Grew From Years Of Behind-the-Scenes Talks
    Secret Efforts Planted Seeds for Obama Call With Rouhani

    By Jay Solomon and
    Carol E. Lee
    Updated Nov. 7, 2013 12:07 a.m. ET

    WASHINGTON—The White House heralded President Barack Obama’s phone call with Iranian counterpart Hasan Rouhani earlier this fall as a foreign-policy milestone born of a rush of last-minute diplomacy. But the historic conversation was more intricately choreographed than previously disclosed.

    Top National Security Council officials began planting the seeds for such an exchange months earlier—holding a series of secret meetings and telephone calls and convening an assortment of Arab monarchs, Iranian exiles and former U.S. diplomats to clandestinely ferry messages between Washington and Tehran, according to current and former U.S., Middle Eastern and European officials briefed on the effort.

    More
    Initial Nuclear Deal With Tehran Takes Shape

    Mr. Obama had empowered the administration’s top Iran specialist, Puneet Talwar, for some time to have direct meetings and phone conversations with Iranian Foreign Ministry officials, those people say. Some of the contacts took place in Oman’s ancient capital, Muscat, U.S. and Middle Eastern officials say, which sits less than 200 miles across the Gulf’s azure waters from the Iranian coastline.

    Mr. Talwar, an Indian-American steeped in Iran policy, has at times conveyed a succinct message for his Iranian interlocutors: The U.S. wants to peacefully resolve the dispute over Tehran’s nuclear program, according to these officials.

    Mr. Talwar declined to comment on his role in Iran diplomacy.

    The White House also reached out to Tehran through other senior Obama aides, including National Security Adviser Susan Rice, according to Iranian and U.S. officials briefed on the exchanges. At Mr. Obama’s direction, Ms. Rice had nurtured ties with her Iranian counterpart while serving from 2009-2013 as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, according to U.S. and Iranian officials, rekindling those connections for the September phone call between the Iranian and American leaders.

    The intricate communications network helped propel the recent steps toward U.S.-Iran rapprochement. Since late September, senior American and Iranian officials have held three sets of direct talks on the nuclear issue. A fourth is expected Nov. 7 and 8 in Geneva, part of wider negotiations between Iran and the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, plus Germany, a group known as P5+1.

    A spokesman at Iran’s mission to the United Nations didn’t respond to requests for comment on the diplomacy efforts.

    A senior U.S. official said Wednesday it was possible that an initial agreement to curb Iran’s nuclear program could be reached this week. The negotiations are focused on freezing the most advanced parts of Iran’s nuclear program, particularly its production of near-weapons grade fuel, in return for sanctions relief.

    The secrecy of the diplomatic run-up reflects both the risks to the White House and the delicacy with which the administration is pursuing Mr. Obama’s goal. Already, what little the administration has disclosed of its overtures to Tehran has alienated several Mideast allies, notably Israel and Saudi Arabia, who fear being cut out of decisions with a bearing on their future security.

    “On a good day, we’re paranoid about Iran,” said a senior Arab official who regularly discusses Iran policy with the U.S. “But in the current environment, our fears have only been exacerbated.”

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, meeting Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday, reiterated his opposition to any “partial deals” that could leave Iran capable of one day developing atomic weapons.

    Thus far on his whirlwind tour through the Middle East and elsewhere, John Kerry has been placating egos and smoothing rifts. Here’s a quick-fire look at his agenda. Via The Foreign Bureau. (Photo: Getty)

    U.S. officials believe Iran’s nuclear program, barring successful negotiations or military strikes, could be advanced enough by next summer that Tehran emerges as a de facto nuclear-weapons state. Tehran has repeatedly denied it is seeking nuclear weapons.

    Mr. Talwar, whose title is special assistant to the president and National Security Council senior director for Iran, Iraq, and the Gulf States, was a logical choice for the secret White House outreach to Tehran, say diplomats and academics who have worked with him. “In an administration where the White House dominates Iran policy, it makes sense that Puneet played this role,” says a former Western diplomat who discussed the secret diplomacy with Mr. Talwar.

    Previously Mr. Talwar was a senior staffer on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, chaired by then-Sen. Joe Biden, a Delaware Democrat who is now vice president. While working for the Senate, Mr. Talwar was part of a small group of American academics, congressional officials and retired diplomats who met with Iranian officials during George W. Bush’s two terms as president.

    Other prominent Americans who took part in the Bush-era talks included former U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry ; Thomas Pickering, an undersecretary of State in the Clinton administration; and Frank Wisner, a former ambassador to Egypt.

    The meetings were held in Europe, primarily the Swedish capital of Stockholm. They were organized by international groups that included the Asia Society, which focuses on cultural exchange and conflict resolution; the United Nations Association, an independent organization that supports the U.N.’s mandate; and Pugwash, an international disarmament organization.

    “ The secrecy of the diplomatic run-up reflects both the risks to the White House and the delicacy used in pursuing Mr. Obama’s goal. ”

    The American and Iranian sides gathered in hotels and conference halls, seeking formulas to defuse the crisis over Iran’s nuclear program and avert a war. Participants said in interviews that the key would be solutions recognizing Tehran’s desire for nuclear technologies while addressing the West’s fears that Iran was secretly developing atomic weapons.

    The U.S. attendees were encouraged by the high level of Iranian participation, those who attended say. Javad Zarif, now Iran’s foreign minister, helped organize some of the conferences. Aides to then-Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad attended, as did Ali Akbar Salehi, the current head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, according to conference organizers and an Iranian diplomat.

    “Much of what we discussed is still very relevant now,” says William Luers, who served as president of the United Nations Association and organized some of the meetings Mr. Talwar attended in 2002 through 2006. “The elements of a deal are well understood.”

    Mr. Talwar joined the Obama-Biden team in 2008, as Mr. Obama campaigned for the presidency partly on a pledge of direct talks with Iranian leaders over Tehran’s nuclear program. Many U.S. officials still fear Iran’s nuclear ambitions could lead to a Mideast war, particularly given repeated threats of an Israeli attack.

    Shortly after entering the Oval Office in 2009, Mr. Obama sent two personal letters to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei stressing that the U.S. wasn’t seeking regime change in Iran and wanted to resolve the nuclear dispute peacefully, according to American and Iranian officials briefed on the correspondence. The Obama administration at the time saw Mr. Khamenei, who is the ultimate arbiter on Iran’s foreign policy, as the only leader in Tehran powerful enough to deliver a compromise on the nuclear issue.

    Mr. Khamenei was initially “seduced” by Mr. Obama’s overtures, according to one Western official who discussed the issue with the Iranian cleric. But Iran’s 2009 presidential election, marred by charges of fraud, returned Mr. Ahmadinejad to office. His hard-line stance—among other things, he threatened to destroy Israel—doused hopes for a U.S.-Iranian detente.

    U.S. diplomacy with Iran picked up pace after Mr. Rouhani’s surprise June election. Mr. Rouhani had campaigned to improve ties with the West. Mr. Obama quickly sought to capitalize on what he saw as an opening.

    Just days after Mr. Rouhani’s August inauguration, Oman’s Sultan Qaboos bin Said al Said, a frequent mediator, traveled to Tehran and emphasized to Iran’s leadership the White House’s desire for direct talks, according to a senior Iranian official. The same week, a former top State Department official under Mr. Obama, Jeffrey Feltman, visited Iran as part of a U.N. mission and was struck by the “dramatically different tone” as Iranian diplomats espoused their willingness to engage with Washington.

    Mr. Rouhani’s election also re-energized contacts between the Americans and Iranians who met years earlier, along with Mr. Talwar, in Europe. U.S. and European officials briefed on Mr. Talwar’s current diplomacy say they believe Mr. Obama has sought to build on the contacts Mr. Talwar established in Stockholm and the discussions he held there.

    Mr. Zarif, now Iran’s foreign minister, used these same contacts, particularly through New York’s Asia Society, to communicate to the White House and State Department the steps Tehran’s new government would be willing to take to address U.S. concerns about Iran’s nuclear program, according to Iranian officials and American participants.

    The Asia Society and the nongovernmental Council on Foreign Relations hosted roundtables for Messrs. Rouhani and Zarif on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly meeting in September. The two men used them to explain Tehran’s plans to American businessmen, former government officials, academics and journalists.

    “For the first time in 34 years, the leaderships of both governments appear to be in sync and want a deal,” says Suzanne DiMaggio, a vice president at the Asia Society, who says she helped facilitate communications between Messrs. Rouhani and Zarif and the Obama administration in September.

    The White House has accelerated its discussions with Tehran on the nuclear program since then, with Mr. Talwar in the center of the diplomacy. He has represented the White House at all of the formal negotiations conducted between Iran and the global P5+1 powers, since 2009.

    Mr. Obama personally reached out to Mr. Rouhani last summer. The U.S. president penned a letter to the new Iranian leader, stressing Washington’s desire to end the nuclear dispute peacefully. Mr. Rouhani responded with similar sentiments.

    Mr. Zarif, meanwhile, reconnected with prominent American foreign-policy officials he met while serving as Iran’s ambassador to the U.N. in the 2000s. Mr. Ahmadinejad’s government demoted Mr. Zarif, once seen as a star in Tehran’s Foreign Ministry, and briefly forced him to live under a form of house arrest at a government think tank, according to Iranian and European officials. His re-emergence in August as foreign minister raised hopes in the West that Iran was serious about engagement.

    Ms. DiMaggio of the Asia Society says she was among those in New York who contacted Mr. Zarif shortly after he was brought in to the Rouhani government. A veteran facilitator of informal contacts between Iranian and American officials, she held numerous meetings over the past decade with the U.S.-educated diplomat on ways to end the nuclear impasse.

    This time, she says, it was immediately clear Mr. Rouhani’s government was significantly altering Tehran’s negotiating framework and might be willing to accept some of the nuclear limits the West was demanding in exchange for sanctions relief.

    Ms. DiMaggio, just days before Mr. Rouhani’s delegation was scheduled to arrive at the U.N., traveled to Washington and met with U.S. officials and advised high-level meetings in New York. “It was clear to me that the Iranians were describing an endgame to the crisis,” she says. “I thought it was well worth testing.”

    The U.S. diplomacy has also been aided by Hossein Mousavian, a former top Iranian diplomat and now a visiting scholar at Princeton University. He was charged with treason by President Ahmadinejad and briefly jailed. Mr. Mousavian arrived in the U.S. in 2010, writing and commenting for American audiences on the outlines of a possible nuclear deal and rapprochement between Iran and the West.

    U.S. and European officials said his presence has aided the West’s understanding of Iran’s position, as he previously worked closely with Messrs. Rouhani and Zarif. “Hossein has emerged as an unexpected asset,” said George Perkovich of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    Despite the bad blood between Washington and Tehran, Ms. Rice and Mohammad Khazaee, her Iranian counterpart during her time at the U.N., had sought to calm tensions over regional hot spots and avert miscalculations between American and Iranian naval ships in the Persian Gulf.

    In September, the two diplomats closely coordinated by phone to try to arrange a direct meeting between Messrs. Obama and Rouhani on the sidelines of the U.N. gathering, according to a senior Iranian official briefed on the conversations. Ms. Rice and Mr. Khazaee first tried to find a room at the U.N. headquarters for a brief meeting between their two leaders. The meeting never happened. Instead the two sides eventually agreed to a phone call shortly before Mr. Rouhani flew back to Tehran on Sept. 27.

    Mr. Talwar led a team of American sanctions and nuclear experts who took part in meetings with Iranians in late October in Vienna. And he arrived in Geneva on Wednesday to take part in talks between the P5+1 and Iran.

    Officials involved in the diplomacy say major differences still need to be bridged before an agreement can be reached on curbing Iran’s nuclear program. Still, U.S. officials said the tone of discussions have changed dramatically over the year, since Mr. Talwar’s secret outreach.

    “I wouldn’t say I’m blasé about” the talks, said one senior U.S. official who traveled to Geneva. “But I would say after the president of the United States has spoken to the president of Iran…it’s no longer the Rubicon that it once was.”

  146. Karl.. says:

    Apparently the deal is that Iran end its program for 6 mounths and get nothing in substance back.

  147. Sammy says:

    Merci kooshy , intersting article.

    On another related topic , this article in couterpunch by Nocola Nasser:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/06/saudis-fight-a-losing-battle-against-change/

    ‘Surrounded by a turbulent changing regional and international environment, the Saudi Arabian rulers seem worried as hell that their system is facing an historical existential test for the survival of which they are unwisely blundering in foreign policy to alienate friends, win more enemies, exacerbate old animosities and trying counterproductively to promote their unmarketable way of life as the only way they know to survive, instead of reforming to adapt to modern irreversible changes that are sweeping throughout their surroundings and the world like a tsunami of an irresistible fate…

    ‘The cornerstone of the Islamic revolution which late Imam Grand Ayatollah Khomeini led and swept away the more powerful and pro-American hereditary rule of the Shah of Iran was the central idea in his book, “Vilayat-e Faqih” (The Islamic Government: Governance of the Jurist), that there is no hereditary government in Islam.

    “Anyone who has some general awareness of the beliefs and ordinances of Islam” would ”unhesitatingly give his assent to the principle of the governance of the faqih as soon as he encounters it,” the late Iranian leader wrote…

  148. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    Maybe the US. As we know English has a “way” with their propaganda. At any rate, Pakistan today has “vehemently” denied that report. Not that it counts for anything.

    I agree with you that, it is only a matter of time before the white man will attack Iran, killing millions, maiming millions more and mass raping Iranian girls. It is what they are good at. And it is what they aspire to. It is just now, the white man is a bit “tired” after continuously raping Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria, Somalia, etc etc for the past three decades.

    Iran should get prepared for the day, this rapist attacks her. And the only way to be prepared is to have long range nuclear munitions as you have said times and times.

  149. Smith says:

    Soon after nuclear issue, US will start this game: http://www.addison-eagle.com/news/2013/nov/07/world-perspectives-human-rights-abuses-shadow-iran/?News

    It has no end. Only long range nuclear munitions can put a stop to white man’s sadistic urges.

  150. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    David Cameron and William Hague do not approve of Israel’s programme of murdering Iranian nuclear scientists.

  151. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    If “Anglo interests” means an effort to foster global stability, China is part of that programme. Huge investments in the US, Canada, various European countries, by China. How do you define “Anglo interests”?

  152. James Canning says:

    Fine full-page report in the Financial Times today: “The Palestinian economy’s hard road out of isolation”, by John Reed. With very large map of the West Bank and Gaza.

  153. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You might do well to be concerned more about Iran’s being “technologically crippled” in Iranian oil and gas production and development facilities. This is where the real damage to the economy originates.

  154. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    If you follow Russian foreign policy, you will have read numerous statements and comments that are strongly supportive of the conclusion Russia wants a deal between Iran and the US, better relations between Iran and the West, etc. And obviously Iran would be much stronger if it had not restarted enriching uranium etc etc. Obviously. The Iranian economy has lost probably a minimum of $2 trillion.

  155. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    You claim a richer Iran would not “necessarily” be a stronger Iran. True, possibly. If you are assuming the Iranian government would have squandered the trillions of dollars that would have been available for economic development in the country. I do not make that assumption, though you do implicitly.

  156. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    Syrian civil war in part grew direclty out of financial crisis of the Syrian government. True? Obviously. And was Iran able to prevent this from happening, by funding Bashar al-Assad to the extent of tens of billions of dollars? No. Obviously.
    Why? We know why, correct?

    I assume you do not think the civil war in Syria strengthens Iran.

  157. James Canning says:

    Kathleen,

    Bravo, re: truly insane policy recommendations by Sheldon Adelson, the billionaire gambling boss from Las Vegas. I agree this deserves more attention in US news (and social) media.

  158. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    Bashar al-Assad obviously is very glad indeed, for support from Iran (and Hezbollah). I think you are wrong to think he does not see his travails as arising in part from Iran’s nuclear programme.

  159. Kathleen says:

    And not once do we hear the powers that be talk about pressuring Israel to sign the very IAEA treaty that Iran signed long ago. The very treaty that Iran has the right to enrich as a signatory to. Israel the rogue nation that sits on massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that go un inspected by the international community. Complete height of hypocrisy. Israel the rogue nation that will not sign the NPT or the Chemical Weapons Convention. Height of hypocrisy

  160. Karl.. says:

    James

    I dont need an extreme nationalist like yourself lying that Cameron and Hague doesnt object to murder iranians.

    Besides, China isnt part of the anglo world.

  161. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 7, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    The real damage to the Iranian economy is a rentier mindset that does not value entrepreneurship and the market economy.

  162. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You in effect endorse the wisdom of Rouhani’s plan to obtain $100 billion in investment in Iranian oil and gas, by Big Oil.

  163. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I am not “lying”, and I know what I am talking about when I say Cameron and Hague do not approve of Israel’s murdering of Iranian nuclear scientists.

    There are, however, powerful interests in “the Anglo world” that favor Israel’s dangerous programme.

  164. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I push comes to shove, I think it is clear China will at least tacitly support a blockade. Assuming reasonable behavior by EU 3 and US, in the nuclear talks etc.
    Your view?

  165. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    If push come to shove, ….. Meaning, if talks fail.

  166. James Canning says:

    Cyrus,

    The “senior administration official” obviously is well aware Iran has offered to stop enriching uranium to 20%.

    Israel, of course, publicly objects to any Iranian enrichment. As do many stooges of the Israel lobby in the US Congress.

  167. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes you are lying, when you say you dont lie, you lie.

    A lie is for example when you try to say that China is an anglo state.
    Another is when you lie that UK dont commit subversion in Iran.

  168. Fiorangela says:

    Cyrus says:
    November 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    In other words, Sherman is determined to march to the sea.

    Dan Joyner is there guarding the shores —

    http://armscontrollaw.com/2013/11/07/scope-meaning-and-juridical-implication-of-the-npt-article-iv1-inalienable-right/

  169. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    I do not endorse distributive resource-based economic development.

    I do not have a problem with selling commodities but I object strongly to this income be used for to non-productive purposes – such as consumption.

  170. Karl.. says:

    New sanctions planned tommorow by senate just announced.

  171. Fiorangela says:

    Assertion:

    SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I don’t believe any country – the United States does not believe any country has a right. That doesn’t mean countries don’t have enrichment programs. They do. So the issue is not — when people say we have a right, then it means you can’t put any limitations on it, you cannot stop it, you cannot question it, because it’s an inherent right. We believe Iran does not have a right. We don’t believe any country has a right.
    [source: see link at Cyrus says: November 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm, “State Department Press Office, Office of the Spokesperson
    November 6, 2013 – 2013/1358 -Background Briefing: Senior Administration Official Previewing Iran P5+1 Talks, November 6, 2013, Geneva, Switzerland.”]

    response:

    PROF. DAN JOYNER: Article IV(1) of the NPT states that “Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes without discrimination and in conformity with Articles I and II of this Treaty.” In my view, the recognition by over 190 states parties to the NPT that all states have such an inalienable right, which I interpret to include all elements of the full nuclear fuel cycle including uranium enrichment, strongly suggests that the right to peaceful nuclear energy research, production and use is one of the fundamental rights of states in international law. In my view, both fundamental and acquired rights of states should be understood to create in third parties, both states and international organizations, a legal obligation to respect those rights.

    Assertion:

    SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: “We need to first take a first step, stop the advance of Iran’s program, so that we can have a serious discussion about how to meet the international community’s concerns. These are not just our concerns.”

    Response:

    PROF. DAN JOYNER: “This means that other states and international organizations are under an international legal obligation not to act in serious prejudice of states’ rights. In the case of fundamental rights, this reciprocal obligation is of a jus cogens order, meaning that all states and international organizations are under a jus cogens order legal obligation not to act to seriously prejudice the fundamental rights of other states. When states or international organization do act in serious prejudice of a state’s fundamental rights, that action is an internationally wrongful act, and implicates the international responsibility of the acting state or international organization.”

    Assertion:

    SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: “There is a — there are UN Security Council resolutions, and there is a UN Security Council resolution that called for the suspension of Iran’s enrichment program because they had not met their international obligations and responsibilities. All of this has to be addressed. That’s what we’re going to try to do.”

    Response:

    PROF. DAN JOYNER: “According to this analysis, UN Security Council Resolution 1696, which commands Iran to cease uranium enrichment, constitutes a violation of international law, at least as to this particular command, and is void of legal effect (See Article 25 of the UN Charter).”

  172. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 7, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    That was very funny. Thanks for the laugh!

    On a serious note, there is no international law. Only long range nuclear munitions.

    The fundamental problem with the age old fantasy you wrote is this: http://goo.gl/sAQV

  173. Smith says:

    Indians till today criticize and some even curse Nehru for not having done the nuclear test before 1968 and that is why China is considered an official nuclear power while India is not.

    But at least, he and the subsequent leaders of India had the smart to know that NPT is a colonial tool of the most humiliating character designed to infringe upon the sovereignty and freedom of non-white nations. Therefore they did not sign it. By extension Pakistan too was forced to “follow” India.

    The stupid Shah, on the other hand was a puppet and a rascal who signed this humiliating “treaty”. May God shower more fire on him in hell. May he rot in the darkest and hottest crevices of hell forever. May he and his progeny suffer God’s wrath for eternity. He made Iran a slave to white man.

  174. Fiorangela says:

    Smith @ 5:41 pm:

    I saw one solution to “belling the cat” immediately: group cooperation, first two join forces, then a third joins, then the group expands, a plan is developed, roles assigned, etc. In other words, civilization happens, to “provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare.”

    The fable itself states that another solution emerged: “The challenge was accepted and successfully accomplished by the Earl of Angus.” This is the “hero’s journey,” a staple in most mythologies. It coordinates with solution above: one courageous person takes the lead.

    In my view, such courageous persons HAVE emerged — two of them host this blog — do you think they do this because it is popular and wins friends? Dan Joyner is a third such courageous person — do you appreciate how long it takes to get through law school, complete advanced study, prepare scholarly papers & books for publication, get published, get a job, navigate the academic jungle — Joyner, AND the Leveretts put all of that on the line to “bell the cat.”

    “Bell the cat,” or kill every suspicious cat in the neighborhood, with a drone, or a nuke — how’s that workin’ out?

  175. Fiorangela says:

    Smith,

    A third strategy in “belling the cat” is to figure out what makes the vicious cat so vicious.

    What took hold of State Department “cat” Wendy Sherman & her colleagues to belie her polished demeanor and display all the characteristics of a feral feline?

    What rabid cat bit Senator Bob Menendez to make him think that calling Iran’s leaders by childish names enhanced his stature in the eyes of the Hispanic community to which he is an exemplar, or that such behavior was not deeply embarrassing to the broader community of Americans?

    Historian Thomas Fleming offered some insights into the psychosis that takes hold of Americans that induces them to behave like so many feral cats. Fleming calls the phenomenon a “disease in the public mind,” a phrase he explored while studying the role of John Brown in setting the stage for the US Civil War. Fleming defined the “disease of the public mind” in this way:

    “The public mind involved fixed beliefs about how the public perceived the world. … A disease of the public mind was, and is … a twisted interpretation of political or economic or spiritual realities that seizes control of thousands, even millions of people.
    “Americans first experienced this phenomenon in 1692 when the leaders of the Massachusetts Bay Colony became convinced that witches were threatening their society with evil…The Salem Witch Trials should teach us that the influential classes are fully liable to the terrible delusion of passionate error that has ever characterized the maddest mob. Clergy, judges, doctors, statesmen, the wisest, calmest and holiest persons of their day stood in the inner circle round about the gallows, loudest to acclaim the work of blood, last to confess themselves miserably deceived.
    “John Brown stirred similar unreality in the people of the north: they showered praises [and money] on a man that said ‘without the admission of blood there is no forgiveness for sin.’ ”

    Fleming went on to point out that the United States was the ONLY state that devolved to such violence — hundreds of thousands were killed — to get rid of slavery. Other nations removed the practice by negotiation and enactment of law.

    The American people seem to have a predilection to such delusional and violent departures from reality, and the example of John Brown suggests that one source of this deadly characteristic is distorted interpretations of the Hebrew-Christian bible.

  176. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The Iranian government could put perhaps $50 billion per year into an investment fund, or funds, and use that vehicle to gain further economic benefits, political influence (and power) abroad, etc etc. And avoid mere “consumption” of the wealth.

  177. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I said that China supports global stability. You think the contrary is true? I said if you want to consider that programme as “Anglo”, then it was subscribed to by China.

    William Hague and David Cameron oppose Israeli assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists. Full stop. And drop the silly contention I am “lying” when I say this.

  178. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    If Iran forces war in the Gulf, yes there indeed might well be various acts that take place in Iran that you would regard as “subversion” etc etc etc. OBVIOUSLY.

  179. Richard Steven Hack says:

    ” it is unambiguously plain that Obama will have to spend enormous political capital to realign relations with Iran. America’s future standing as a great power depends significantly on his readiness to do so.”

    Good luck with that…Obama never misses an opportunity to disappoint…

  180. kooshy says:

    Bibijon where are you it looks like your moment of truth is happening

    Kerry making unplanned visit to Geneva for Iran talk

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/07/21353512-kerry-making-unplanned-visit-to-geneva-for-iran-talks

  181. James Canning says:

    “We have frequently announced that to prove its goodwill, the opposite side can take steps to remove anti-Iran sanctions even if sanctions removed in the first stages would not be significant.” Majid Takht-e Revanchi, a deputy Iranian FM (re P5+1 talks).

    http://www.lobelog.com/officials-progress-at-iran-geneva-talks/#more-21719

  182. James Canning says:

    R S Hack,

    Surely you were not “disappointed” when Obama did not attack Syria (due to deal on CW).

  183. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 7, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    That is already being done.

    But what are you going to do in a polity that “profit-seeker” is a curse word?

  184. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 7, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Until the Mad King is dethroned, there is going to be a war with Iran at US choosing.

    This has become clear since this past August.

    The current diplomatic events are a much ado about nothing; there could be a small deal – which would be strategically meaningless for both sides.

  185. fyi says:

    Richard Steven Hack says:

    November 7, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    I agree with you.

  186. Kathleen says:

    Seems like a good time to be contacting the Senate Banking Committee and letting them know that Americans do not support more sanctions against Iran. Ask them who they are working for Israel or the U.S.?

    http://www.banking.senate.gov/public/

  187. Bibijon says:

    test1

  188. Bibijon says:

    Well I’m finally unbanned!
    ========================

    Kooshy jan,

    I think US just managed to get de-neoconned.

    Tomorrow we will all wake up to news that a deal was made, including “right to enrichment,” all due respect to Cyrus.

    This is a dog and pony show for us plebs. The real agreement, in the works for a long time, encompasses political, intelligence, military and economic cooperation to foster a de-neoconned middle east where US is not dripping credibility, but her interests are safe, and China and Russia will be satisfied that Iran remains non-aligned.

    Iran is a winner among winners. fyi will get used to it.

  189. kooshy says:

    Bibijon says:
    November 7, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    “Iran is a winner among winners. fyi will get used to it.”

    Bibi why should you get banned, that doesn’t make sense. On fyi, all I can say is, well at least he finally knows who he is “aligned” with, yes he is now aligned with non-other than our own old timer arcade Rambo RSH, isn’t that ironic he talks like he cares for Iran’s national interest but still can’t and refuses to swallow the IRI as is with a full jar of honey.

  190. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    November 7, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    The late Mr. Qaddafi also made a deal with the Axis Powers.

    It was a tactical move which the poor man came to interpret as a strategic one by the Axis Powers.

    At the first opportune moment, they got rid of him.

    There is, for example, nothing that prevents a repeat of Syrian scenario against Iran; launched from the territories of Pakistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan.

    Take this for tactical deal that it is, repatriate some money if you can, and prepare Iran for the war that will come.

    The strategic clarity brought about by events post 08/21/2013 is beyond dispute.

  191. Cyrus says:

    Oh I don’t doubt the possibility of a deal being made but it will be stillborn, or it will be born under quite an ugly cloud that will haunt it for a very long time. Any kind of compromise Iran makes as part of a deal, now that the US has declared its official position in the negotiations that Iran has no right to enrichment, is going to be totally suspect and delegitimized. They Iranians can settle for this for now, but if they don’;t raise a stink and explicitly make it clear that their right to enrichment is and never was open for debate, they will never live down the fact that any deal could be perceived as an Iranian acquiescence to and tacit endorsement of the US position on the issue. Even if Iran continues to enrich unabated, it will be perceived as a result of the US “allowing” Iran to do so rather than Iran exercising the right to do so. This can be then treated as a precendent and “norm” by the US; making Iran effietively a ess-than full member of the NPT as well as a less-than soveregn state. And the IRI had then better start packing because they will stand accused of having sold out the nation’s sovereign rights for the sake of holding onto power.

  192. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    November 7, 2013 at 2:10 pm
    The russians appear to be quite happy with the current situation as it allows them to squeeze concessions out of both iran and the west,they seem in no hurry for any kind of agreement

    James Canning says:
    November 7, 2013 at 2:16 pm
    No james you claim that iran would have been stronger,I have pointed out on more than one occasion that iran may have been richer but that that does not automatically translate into military strength as you seemed to imply,but then you never actually elaborated on what you meant by a “stronger” iran.The simple fact is this:No one ever said that standing up for ones rights is ever cheap or easy especially in the middle east,following your logic iran should never have gotten rid of the shah and remained just another “arab style” dictatorship,it would have had lots of weapons,tho` whether it could have used them is another matter,and it would have had lots of cash to spend on things that it probably didnt need,now this all would have been great for the west,but whether it would have made iran stronger in any way is anyones guess but the people of iran didnt seem to think so

  193. fyi says:

    Sineva says:

    November 8, 2013 at 12:42 am

    Like all Englishmen, he seldom doubts the rationality and reasonableness of the English and considers non-English to be less so – evidently.

    In fact, the English people became emotionally disgusted with the late Chamberlain and opted for war – months before the war was officially declared…

  194. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    November 7, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    Look fyi, unlike you I don’t know nor I claim I know what the outcome of these negations is or where it will end up, and unlike you I don’t have nor I claim I know on and about every subject on this planet and beyond the milky way. But one thing I know which you constantly do and is becoming annoying, that is to proof a point you constantly make irrelevant, unjustified, irrational, illogical and unsubstantiated comparisons, which you really need to stop before you make yourself more and more embarrassed, one like your constant comparison of Iran and Libya, US power before the Syrian, Iraq, Afghanistan, Economic, etc. FUs and after. You need to learn Iran and Libya are not the same they have nothing comparable beside sharing the same planet, they can’t, will not, or can be treated the same way, you shouldn’t make simple comparison to justify a bad strategic analysis you have made. Again I don’t claim that I know what will happen but have read enough of your prophesies that I know you don’t either.

  195. Karl.. says:

    James

    Another lie and dishonesty-post by yourself. UK commit subversion in Iran by Cameron/Hague today and you support them doing that. Drop your extreme nationalism, it you have become highly irrational the past 2 years with your comments here.

  196. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Some “choice words” from SL for Israel, US and Sheldon Adelson

    http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1837

    According to Ayatollah Ozma Closet-Case the SL just committed a “criminal offense” under Islam.

    I think it’s safe to say that it’s “halal” to curse a person you made billions from gambling, booze and show-girls and them spent hundreds of millions of it on financing Likud, Netanyahu and fighting whoever is against Israel in the US.

    Obama himself joked about Adelson and said instead of spending 100 million dollars in the campaign against me, he should have just offered me the money not to run for re-election.

    I think we have found a clear case of “mufsid fil arz” if there is ever gonna be one. I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point we get a “fatwa” for Sheldon a la Rushdie.

    Closet-case-jan: Don’t tell us what Islam is when you yourself don’t follow the first rule of Islam: Following the vali-e amr. Thanks.

    James,

    Your understanding is wrong. It’s better you shut your mouth about “torture” given your undying love for Ian Henderson and his methods in dealing with “rampaging blacks” (your words) in Kenya and assorted people in Saudi and Bahrain.

    Just shut up about anything to do with the subject torture, OK?

  197. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Money quotes:

    -“In those days, our youth called the U.S. embassy the “Den of Espionage”. Today, after the passage of 30-plus years since that day, the name of U.S. embassies in countries which have the closest relationship with America – that is to say, European countries – has become the den of espionage. This means that our youth are 30 years ahead of the rest of the world.”

    -“The people of Iran consider themselves to be fighters against arrogance because they have not given in to the imposition of the government of America. The government of America is an arrogant government. It grants itself the right to interfere in the affairs of other countries. It wages wars and it interferes in the affairs of other countries. Today, you see that this goes beyond the borders of Asian, African and Latin American countries. It has reached Europe. They interfere in their affairs as well. The Iranian nation stood against the arrogance that the government of the United States of America showed. It stood against the interference and bullying that it caused and it stood against the domination that it had achieved over our dear country in the course of many years.

    The taghuti and monarchical regime was a regime which was dependent on America without any domestic support. By relying on America, they did whatever they wanted in Iran. They oppressed the people, they usurped their rights, they practiced discrimination among them. They prevented the country from achieving growth and making progress – which was the natural and historical right of the people – in order to promote the interests of America in Iran. The Iranian nation stood firm and it carried out a revolution. Then, it cut out the roots of arrogant powers in the country. It was not like a number of other countries which confronted arrogance at first, but which left it unfinished. Of course, these countries have received a blow because of this.

    When I was present in a country – whose name I do not want to mention – which had fought against the English for many years, which had put an end to the oppression of the English by fighting against them and which had achieved independence, I saw that they had put up the statue of an English commander in an important recreational center. I said, “What is this?” And this center was named after this arrogant and colonialist commander who had committed thousands of crimes in that country. Of course, they did not gain any benefit from this consideration and compromise. That is to say, this country was and still is under pressure.

    Compromising and showing leniency towards arrogant powers will bring no benefit for any country. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the great Revolution carried out by the people of Iran confronted American arrogance and it did not leave this task unfinished because it had felt the blow which the Americans had dealt, over many years, on its skin and flesh. It knew who and what these people are.”

    -“That act of suspending our enrichment activities brought us this advantage: it became clear that problems will not be solved by retreating, suspending enrichment activities, postponing our work and cancelling many of our plans and programs. It became clear that the other side is after something else. We noticed this and therefore we started our enrichment activities again.

    Today, the condition of the Islamic Republic has dramatically changed compared to its condition in the year 1382. In those days, we used to bargain for two, three centrifuges, but today several thousand centrifuges are working. Our youth, our scientists, our researchers and our officials made great efforts and moved things forward. Therefore, we will not suffer a loss as a result of today’s ongoing negotiations.

    Of course, as I said, I am not optimistic and I do not think that these negotiations will produce the results which the Iranian nation expects. However, it is an experience. This will broaden and strengthen the experience of the Iranian nation. It is alright to hold these negotiations, but it is necessary for the Iranian nation to be vigilant. We strongly support our officials, who are active in the camp of diplomacy, but our people should be vigilant. They should know what is happening so that some mercenary promoters of the enemy and some promoters who receive no rewards and who further the goals of the enemy out of naivety cannot mislead public opinion.

    They want to instill the idea into the minds of the people that if we surrender to the other side on the nuclear issue, all economic, financial and other such problems will be solved. This is one of the methods which they use and one of the lies which they spread. They are promoting this idea.”

  198. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Quotes:

    -“One reason is that the enmity of America towards the Iranian nation and the Islamic Republic is not at all about the nuclear issue. It is wrong to think that America’s hostility towards us is based on the nuclear issue. This is not the case. The nuclear issue is an excuse. Even long before the nuclear issue – that is to say, since the beginning of the Revolution – these hostilities and oppositions existed. Even if one day the nuclear issue is resolved – imagine that the Islamic Republic retreats, which is the thing they want – you should not think that these hostilities will be over. No, they will gradually make tens of other excuses.

    For example, they will say, “why do you have missiles?”, “why do you have drones?”, “why are you on unfriendly terms with the Zionist regime?”, “why do you not officially recognize the Zionist regime?”, “why do you support resistance groups?” in, as they call it, the Middle East region and why and why and why…

    The issue is not that they have disagreements with the Islamic Republic about its nuclear program. This is not the case. America’s sanctions began since the beginning of the Revolution and these sanctions increased on a daily basis so much so that today, it has reached a high level.

    They showed other kinds of hostility as well. They brought down a plane which belonged to the Islamic Republic and they killed 290 humans. During the early years of the Revolution, when the people were still enthusiastic about the victory of the Revolution, they launched the coup d’état based in Shahid Nojeh military base. They launched a coup d’état against the Revolution and they supported anti-revolutionary elements in different corners of the country. They gave weapons and other such things to the anti-revolutionary camp. This is the same thing that they did in other countries later on. Their enmity is not based on the nuclear issue. The issue is something else. The Iranian nation said no to the requests of America. The Iranian nation said that America cannot do a damn thing against us.

    The Americans are opposed to the identity of the Islamic Republic. They are opposed to the influence and power of the Islamic Republic. Recently, one of the American politicians and intellectuals said – his speech was broadcast and this is not a confidential issue – that Iran is dangerous, no matter if it is atomic or non-atomic. This person openly said that the influence and power of Iran – as they say, the hegemony of Iran – is dangerous in the region. This is the kind of Iran which enjoys dignity, respect and power today. They are opposed to this kind of Iran. They will be satisfied when Iran becomes a weak, abandoned, isolated, untrustworthy and humiliated nation. Their enmity is not based on the nuclear issue. This is one point.”

    -“Today, the Americans have the most troubles with the deviated Zionist regime- more than any other regime. They have the most consideration for Zionist lobbies. They show consideration for them and we see the situation. The claws of wealthy and powerful Zionist individuals and companies have such domination over the U.S. government and the U.S. Congress that they have to show consideration for them. We do not have to show consideration for the Zionists.

    Since the first day we said – and we say it today and we will say it in the future – that we consider the Zionist regime to be an illegal and bastard regime. It is a regime which has come into being with conspiracy and it is being preserved and guarded with conspiracy and conspiratorial policies. The Americans show consideration for this regime. The reason why they do this requires another detailed discussion. The money, power and capital of the Zionists is doing a good job and it is influencing these poor Americans. Therefore, the Americans have to show some consideration for them.

    It is not only the Americans who have such a condition. Many other western politicians, these poor creatures, have the same problem. They too have the same problem. Therefore, our officials should pay attention and they should look at their statements. On the one hand, they smile and they show interest in negotiations and on the other hand, they immediately say, “All options are on the table”. So what? What move can they make against the Islamic Republic?

    If they are serious about these negotiations, they should control themselves. They should stop those people who open their mouth to talk nonsense. A certain wealthy American politician had the audacity to say that they should drop an atomic bomb in such and such a desert in Iran and that they should issue such and such threats. Well, they should smash this person’s mouth!

    A government which suffers from the delusion that it has a responsibility towards all the issues in the world and a government which considers itself responsible for dealing with the nuclear issue of such and such a country should not dare to issue nuclear threats – particularly in such a time – against a country with such a good condition. They should stop those people who talk nonsense.”

  199. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    -“Anyway, our people are, thankfully, a vigilant people and our officials are the officials of these people. They too are vigilant and they pay full attention. We support whatever action which is to the benefit of the country and we support, help and pray for those officials who carry out such actions. But we also advise both the people and officials – particularly you dear youth – to open your eyes and ears. Any nation can achieve its lofty goals with wisdom, vigilance and watchfulness.”

  200. Bibijon says:

    February 1974 – February 2014
    ============================

    The king wasn’t just mad, he was crafty. Through the draconian sanctions Iran was convinced that she had no friends. No Russia, no China, no India. And guess what. All western foreign ministers are on their way to Geneva making Chinese and Russian FMs’ absences rather telling.

    The red herring, (the nuclear scare), was bait for Russia & China to prove their selfish opportunism towards Iran. Over the past couple years it seems every aspect of an Iran-West realignment has been meticulously studied, and mutually acceptable parameters for coexistence/partnership/alliance have been identified and broadly, but firmly agreed to. See http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2013/11/nuclear-issues-mulled-over-banquets-in-french-chateau/?

    The end result will be a reopening of US embassy in Tehran by February 2014. The event in the Mid East that comes close in significance is the opening of the US embassy 40 years earlier in Cairo, when Sadat was wooed away from USSR.

    I do not doubt for a minute that neither Iran’s sovereignty, nor security have been compromised. In fact I believe it has been enhanced through “wisdom, vigilance and watchfulness.”

  201. Sammy says:

    Bibijon says:
    November 8, 2013 at 7:42 am

    In your consistent way of predicting such a moment as we are now witnessing in Geneva , you deserve a BIG appreciation.
    It is a pleasure to read your comments and I hope that now for the brave people of Iran , a new era will begin to unfold . All this would have been impossible without Ahmadinejad and of course above ALL the wise Leadership of the .

  202. Sammy says:

    …and of course above ALL the wise Leadership of the SL.

  203. Karl.. says:

    Iran? have stated a new site declaring its nuclear program.

    http://nuclearenergy.ir/

  204. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    BibiJon,

    You understand the difference between “coexistence”, “partnership” and “alliance” right?

    Like I said, strategic opposition and cold war between two nations doesn’t preclude a period of detente between them.

    I know you’re totally excited, but don’t confuse “detente” with “alliance”.

    Believe me, I understand sticking it to gooz-pich and closet-case, but aren’t we being a little too “happy”?

    SL clearly said that these talks are about the nuclear file and quote: “nothing else”.

    Even if J-Z and John Kerry come up with “a plan”, the bucks stops somewhere else, right? I mean when SL says no deal, it’s no deal, right? J-Z certainly know this otherwise he would not have been allowed to go, right?

    America’s and American elites “consideration” for Zionists (as SL called it) and for dollar value being tied to Saudi oil exports are “real” facts that neither Kerry nor Zarif nor Obama nor Rohani can overcome with “diplomacy”.

    I think you are good-intentioned but unrealistic/too idealistic.

    Waaaay too early to talk about US embassy in Tehran.

    Besides, we would storm it the day it opened, right?

    We remember the chants of the greenies during Rafsanjani’s last Friday prayer: “Marg bar Russiye, marg bar Chin…”.

    As SL says: you’re “completing the enemies puzzle”. As he says some do it naively others do it with ulterior motives.

    Please read SL’s speech I posted- especially the parts relating to Iran-US relations- and you will find real “wisdom” on this subject- whatever the diplomats dining in castles might think or say.

  205. Karl.. says:

    Bibijon

    So in about 3 months everything between Iran and west would be fine? We dont even have a deal on the nuclear issue yet?

  206. Bibijon says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 8, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Esteemed brother,

    I do understand the difference between “coexistence”, “partnership” and “alliance.” They will be the different modes for different issues. E.g. coexistence vis-a-vis Syria, partnership vis-a-vis Afghanistan, alliance vis-a-vis takfiris, and none of above vis-a-vis apartheid regimes.

    Whether one characterizes a period of detente as an interminable prelude to war, or whether one sees it as the beginning of rapprochement, for me it depends on the day of week. Who knows?

    I am ecstatic at the prospects of mutual respect between two important nations, representing two important civilizations, because I want to believe cooler heads have prevailed. If you can’t get more generosity from your “friends,” then getting less animosity from your enemies sounds like an OK deal. I think Iran is bursting at the seams for a huge leap industrially and technologically, while surrendering none of her character. A detente, even a short one, will be good for Iran, methinks.

    For me SL is the arbiter among many facets of “wisdom.” No one doubts what he judges to be correct is good for the body and soul of a nation he has velayat over. I also think he wisely limits horizons so tasks are not left unfulfilled as officials daydream about bigger fish further down the pike. He wants folks concentrate on the nuclear file, and give zero ground on Iran’s rights, methinks. The nuclear file is a big test for Obama. He needs to expend a lot of political capital to make a deal remotely acceptable to Iran. So far, Obama seems willing to put up. That is what makes me believe he may well manage to see it through.

    Then and now it is sufficient to show what Iran thinks of various foreign governments by deporting their entire consular staff with 2 hours notice.

    I would share a thought with you. I rather be dead than see the day when choppers stop swooping down on Behesht Zahra and bombarding martyrs’ graves with rose petals as a reminder to what it has taken, people, and their leaders, to arrive at a juncture where 4 FMs fly in to shake hands with Iran’s FM.

  207. Karl.. says:

    As some of us here knew would happen, after nuclear, HR.

    http://presstv.com/detail/2013/11/08/333660/canada-cant-comment-on-iran-hr/

  208. kooshy says:

    Bibijon says:
    November 8, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Bibi

    I don’t think this shift in US/western policy toward Iran is tactical any longer, I think the final reality came with realizing their limitations with case of Syria. In reality if the west is doing this as a tactical policy move, then they must be really stupid and out of it.
    So that’s why I think the shift is real. I believe we very well are witnessing a détente, and an understanding of each side’s limitations and a need for corporations as per SL’s speech on case by case on mutual and national interests of willing participants.
    Accepting and respecting Iran’s international rights and obligation as an independent power, means that Iran as an independent actor perusing self-national interests will be respected by the colonial west, the west collectively tried to deny this for 35 years didn’t work.

    With a lot of credit and bless to Iranians living in Iran, this was and is only possible by holding national unity and determinations, which was to a perfect point managed and upheld by Iran’s SL. You are right Iranians have paid dearly for this.

  209. Fiorangela says:

    This is a small taste of what the American people could have access to if their leaders were not ignoramuses.

    Fashion in Iran, Then and Now

    h/t Nima Shirazi

    = = =

  210. Fiorangela says:

    Comments of the decade at MW:

    “seafoid says: November 8, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Israel can F@@@ off. Intransigence is not getting the GOP anywhere and people are sick of the bots using the same strategy.

    Capitalism rules and Iran has loads of growth potential.”

    AND

    Maximus Decimus Meridius says: November 8, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Exactly.

    Take away the lobby and all the glossy PR about ‘ hi tech start ups’, and it becomes clear that Israel really has very little to offer the US, or anyone else for that matter. It’s simply a minor desert nation despised by just about everyone for thousands of kilometres around. Iran, by contrast is a strategically vital nation of 70 million people, with a very well educated population and a history stretching back thousands of years. In a sane world, if any country was asked to choose between Iran and Israel, there would be no competition.

    Deep down, ”Bibi” knows this. He knows that Israel is teetering on the brink of irrelevance. And he can’t stand it.”

  211. Bibijon says:

    kooshy says:
    November 8, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Kooshy, needless to say I agree with you. It is strategic on both sides. For Iran, US remains a big entrenched power in the Mid East, and confrontation with that power is now returning diminishing dividends. For the US, even if everything else was rosy, to be at loggerheads with a country of 80 million requires really, really good reasons. But, of course things are not rosy at all. US has been served on a silver platter defeats, losses, setbacks, etc. No end in sight. Which brings us to to the fyi theories of madness, religious war, white man’s superiority complex ect., on the one hand, and all the stuff that make realpolitik sense.

    The issues for both sides are not going to be fixed after a short interval of a ‘tactical’ ceasefire. The problems both face are enduring and require long-lasting antidotes, strategic realignment, or war.

  212. James Canning says:

    I recommend Philip Stephens’ comments today in his Financial Times column, regarding current and pssible future course of Obama’s ME policy.

  213. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    For decades, Israel lobby obviously has suppressed highly valuable opportunities for “Wall Street” in Iran. American news media tend to suppress this fact, wherever possible.

  214. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    A very interesting meeting indeed, at Chateau de Salore the other day (re: nuclear negotiations with Iran, China, Israel, US et al).

  215. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    When was I discussing torture? I said William Hague die not approve Of Israel’s campaign of assassination of Iranian nuclear programme. Karl claimed I was “lying”. Rubbish.

    Have you given the policy recommendations you would have given Britain, to stop the wholesale slaughter that was taking place in Kenya? I would like to see it.

  216. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The choice to bring about hostilities would be Iran’s, assuming no deal of any sort with P5+1, ensuing cutoff of all Iranian oil exports, etc.

  217. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    I take it you concede that armed gangs of blacks were killing tens of thousands of other blacks, in Kenya. (“Mau Mau” uprising) But you object to my comment that blacks were “slaughtering ” other blacks. What terms would be more appropriate, for what was transpiring? Some blacks were being unkind to other blacks?

  218. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Yes, an additional challenge obtains, when a seeker of profit is seen as someone doing wrong. (For Iranian sovereign investment fund)

  219. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    “Bussed-In Basiji,I take it you concede that armed gangs of blacks were killing tens of thousands of other blacks, in Kenya. (“Mau Mau” uprising) But you object to my comment that blacks were “slaughtering ” other blacks. What terms would be more appropriate, for what was transpiring? Some blacks were being unkind to other blacks?”

    You are truly racist deep inside.
    The semantic is important as well as the way sentences are built.
    Such word as rampaging or tribal conflict are reserved in your racist mouth to black and other untermench.
    Yoi would never dare to speak those words the US or UK deeds all over the world.

  220. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    “Bussed-In Basiji,I take it you concede that armed gangs of blacks were killing tens of thousands of other blacks, in Kenya. (“Mau Mau” uprising) But you object to my comment that blacks were “slaughtering ” other blacks. What terms would be more appropriate, for what was transpiring? Some blacks were being unkind to other blacks?”

    You are truly racist deep inside.
    The semantic is important as well as the way sentences are built.
    Such word as rampaging or tribal conflict are reserved in your racist mouth to black and other untermench.
    Yoi would never dare to speak those words the US or UK deeds all over the world.
    However the truth is that the anglo fascist deeesds are just that rampaging and tribal war.

  221. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Good point, regarding horrific slaughter that took place in the US 1861-65, before US abolished slavery. Unlike what happened in other countries. We should remember, perhaps, that the Emperor of Brazil was overthrown because he abolished slavery. And that a number of Southern plantation owners had relocated from the US to Brazil, after American Civil War. To keep in business, in same manner.

  222. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Regarding slavery in the US, we should bear in mind that many states had abolished that institution. And more would have done so, had Civil War not erupted in 1861.

  223. nico says:

    Mr Canning

    You are truly a tribalist and as much developped in your reptilian mind as the most barbaric thug.
    You deem natural all breach of international laws and social construct that defined the after WWIi.

    For you history has no direction and tribes or counties should act as Attila did centuries ago.
    For you might makes right and you compare all country to Japan being nuked for not being pliant enough.

    You make no distinction between good and evil. Between real deeds and fabricated propaganda.
    And the truth is that you just do not care.
    You are a nihilist of the worst kind and an arrogant seeing all event from your pedestal.

    A true representative of the degenerate british mind.

  224. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: November 8, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    and

    James Canning says: November 8, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    These two comments work together — there is something rotten in the Anglo-American soul that has worked to prefer engendering hatred of the other in order to maximize wealth/gain for the few, rather than honest dealing that would benefit the larger number.

    The common thread joining Britain-US-Israel is the Hebrew Christian book of scriptures. I submit that hideous interpretations of those writings & ideas frame the mental architecture of many people in leadership positions. For example, recently Juan Zarate talked about Treasury dept. sanctions on Iran. He gloated that, “since we do not trade with Iran, this is the way we found to hurt Iran.” It is hard for me to imagine that it is natural and normal for a grown person, seemingly well educated, to glory in seeking ways to hurt an entire population, with no legal justification. I don’t think it’s a normal human response. It has to be the result of some horrible conditioning in an ideology that validates such behavior.

  225. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    BibiJon-jane azizam,

    “Different modes for different issues” sounds good at the press conference or looks good on paper, but you know “issues” have a way of “conflicting” and “interfering” with each other. In other words it sounds good theoretically, but has not “really” happened in “reality” for a significant amount of time between two nations in the history of relations between nations.

    Just a small example if I may, the US can’t at the same time be “friends” with ale Saud and “allied” with Iran against takfiris. Doesn’t work like that in reality.

    Like I said, “conflict” is the reality of over 90% of human life, might be able to “abhor it” on the personal level, very difficult to do so on the national level.

    This “conflict” over the last 35 years has been very very good for Iran. “Conflict is good”…take a deep breath close your eyes and repeat it five times, meditate on it a little.

    Paraphrasing Hazrat Ameer (as), I thank God for my “capable” enemies because that means I gotta raise my game. The more “pressure” on Iran and Iranians the better for them in the long run…”pressure is good”.

    You don’t seem to understand that “getting respect” from a nation that is described the way SL does in his speech is nothing to be “ecstatic” about. You are displaying “gharb-zadegi” in a way that’s becoming unpleasant.

    As Imam (r) said: “Even if America and Israel say la ilaha il-Allah we won’t accept it because they are liars.”

    You dig?

    “Respect” from killers and liars like the US elites be darde amashoon mikhore, right? Nothing to be “ecstatic” about if one follows the Quran, right?

    Again all of this doesn’t mean we can’t have detente. But let’s remember it’s because the US is weaker and Iran stronger than both have ever been- and no other reason.

    It’s because we have been supporting Syria for nearly three years with whatever we got and allowing J-Z to enter the talks with strength. And he knows this better than anybody else.

    In other words, the US might “need a deal”, but we don’t. Sanctions pressure you ask? See “pressure is good” above.

    The US might be desperate, but we aren’t. No reason to fall for their smiles, right?

    For me SL is not simply an “arbiter”, he decides even if J-Z and the dear President disagree, haven’t you been watching the last decades in Iran? We’ve been here before and done this dance a few times only now that the US is desperate, they want to make good people like you think that Iran is “desperate” too and it’s of “mutual benefit”.

    Well there are many here in Iran who would disagree with that framing of the the issue. And yes SL has outplayed Obama strategically and Obama won’t be able to “deliver” the goods. Refer to “Zionists and Saudis as part of American contemporary political life”.

    You don’t have a good answer for this “real” problem of American political life, which has zero to do with Iran. You are too optimistic about what the current admin is capable of doing within the context of US domestic politics.

    “I would share a thought with you. I rather be dead than see the day when choppers stop swooping down on Behesht Zahra and bombarding martyrs’ graves with rose petals as a reminder to what it has taken, people, and their leaders, to arrive at a juncture where 4 FMs fly in to shake hands with Iran’s FM.”

    Please no tear-jerking, it’s totally irrelevant to what we are discussing. As the Quran says,”the martyrs are alive and being sustained by their Lord”, right?

    As Imam (r) said: “Agar tamame darha mamaleke aalam be ma baste beshe, darha rahmat Khoda be ma baz mishavad.”

    Wow dude, I’m getting goose bumps…

    Read a little Quran and Imam’s speeches and you will begin to understand America’s existential status versus your own.

    As they say about the US: its enemies don’t fear it, its friends no longer respect it, right? Literally “nothing” to get excited about.

  226. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    James,

    The point is that whatever “blacks” were doing to other “blacks” in Kenya was/is none of your damn business.

    A point lost on you and “your kind”- pardon the racist semantics.

    The point is that you weasel your way out of any discussion regarding the Ian Henderson’s of the world and UK support for the torture regimes of Saudi, Bahrain etc. because British elites are paid handsomely for getting it up the bum from your bedouin boyfriends.

    Again, a point lost on you and your kind.

  227. James Canning says:

    Some interesting comments by Daniel Larison, on US public opinion re: deal with Iran:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/public-opinion-and-a-seal-with-iran/

    Larison thinks foolish Republican opposition to a deal may make the deal more likely.

  228. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    You had asked me what I thought of Ian Henderson’s Kenya policies.

    I take it you are fully aware that marauding blacks killed perhaps a hundred thousand other blacks, in Kenya. During “Mau Mau” uprising.

    I do not condone torture, anywhere. I have not condoned torture.

  229. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    Maybe you would prefer if I said that as a British withdrawal from Kenya came closer to hand, some of the “natives” attempted to gain advantage for themselves, and they were a bit rough in their methods?

  230. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2013 at 2:19 pm
    “Bussed-In Basiji,You had asked me what I thought of Ian Henderson’s Kenya policies.I take it you are fully aware that marauding blacks killed perhaps a hundred thousand other blacks, in Kenya. During “Mau Mau” uprising.I do not condone torture, anywhere. I have not condoned torture.”

    Liar.
    In effect you condone torture by supporting the UK colonial history
    UK had nothing to do in Kenya whatever are your fabricated excuses about the UK being obliged to do so because some kind of competitions between powers

  231. nico says:

    Or should I say your position regarding UK tribalist and marauding policies of clash of civilization and extermination of natives and torture.
    The kind you are totally supportive about

  232. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    Numerous people are making lots of money in various Gulf countries. Brits of course are included, and have an advantage generally.

    Situation in Bahrain poses difficulties, to say the least.

  233. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Britain was getting out of Kenya. Opportunistic Kenyans (“natives”, or “blacks”) fought against each other viciously in effort to gain advantage, and delayed the British withdrawal.

    True?

  234. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Do you regret the conquest of the Medes by the Persians, thousands of years ago?

    You regret Russian conquest of much of the Caucasus?

    You regret existence of the US?

  235. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    And do you regret the conquest of Byzantine Empire’s Egyptian and Levantine provinces, by the Arabs?

  236. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    “Bussed-In Basiji,
    Numerous people are making lots of money in various Gulf countries. Brits of course are included, and have an advantage generally.
    Situation in Bahrain poses difficulties, to say the least.”

    Again the fabricated excuse about UK being obliged the same because of power competition …
    What a joke
    And situation in bahrein being “difficult”.
    Does he mean like Japan it should be nuked ?
    Or like Israel maybe the killing just must go on fully supported in effect by the Anglo thugs ?
    Maybe because of some Barhaini conspiracy in UK like the Jewish one… hmmmmm, who knows ?

    Disgusting

  237. Karl.. says:

    nico

    No point, if you have a person defending genocides, theres no point proceeding the debate.

  238. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    “Nico,And do you regret the conquest of Byzantine Empire’s Egyptian and Levantine provinces, by the Arabs?”

    Ahah ! At last you confess that you are fully into the xlash of civilization…
    At last you confess that the Anglo thugish ways are just justified just as the same as Attila…
    Nothing less.
    Anglo thugs is not an insult it is just the correct term.
    Like marauding and tribal Anglo policies.
    You are fully into that.
    Good, I already knew that. Everybody now know openly who you are.

    As I said previously you are a good representative of Anglo thinking.

    I totally agree with Fio.
    The Anglo and Israel are the same because they share the same rotten trancendancy of the old testament.
    They deem themselves as chosen and superior to others

    Well I am pretty happy that truth is made about who you are with such coming out of yours.

  239. Rd. says:

    kooshy says:

    ”BiBi
    don’t think this shift in US/western policy toward Iran is tactical any longer, I think the final reality came with realizing their limitations with case of Syria. In reality if the west is doing this as a tactical policy move, then they must be really stupid and out of it.”

    to add;
    Perhaps the miss-perception to some regarding the reality US faces is clouded in the simple fact that, there are various political factions within US. The necon/israeli/saudi side is losing and others who have smelled the stink are trying a more realistic approach.

  240. Karl.. says:

    Ted Cruz: Demand that Iran recognize Israel as the jewish state.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/11/grievous-netanyahu-pressures.html

    Still people here think US and Iran will become friends?

  241. Rd. says:

    Karl.. says:

    “Still people here think US and Iran will become friends?”

    it is not about becoming friends. It is about facing the reality. US imperialism disease is there, just severely sick!!!!

    and now;

    Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov is expected to attend international talks in Geneva about Iran’s controversial nuclear program amid hopes for a breakthrough deal, Russian diplomats said Friday.

    http://en.ria.ru/politics/20131108/184598921/Iran-Talks-in-Geneva-Likely-to-Include-Russian-Foreign-Minister.html

  242. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Ted Cruz is a rabid neocon. Full stop.

  243. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I was curious as to the cutoff date Bussed-In Basiji had, for OWN historical regret.
    After all, he was the one complaining Britain had ever been in Kenya. (If I correctly understand the points he was making or trying to make.)

    I personally have great fondness for the Persian Empire, or empires, historically. Most well-educated Brits tend to be the same way, I think.

  244. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Most of my British friends see the creation of the state of Israel, and the numerous wars it is even now causing or helping to cause, as a matter worthy of considerable regret. You forget British “Arabists” generally regret the creation of the state of Israel, or at least see the great damage it caused (and threatens to cause).

  245. James Canning says:

    Rd.,

    A good thing, to have Sergei Lavrov in Geneva. If possible.

  246. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You argue the situation in Bahrain is simple? No problems? Amazing.

  247. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I according to you am “defending genocide” when I ask Bussed-In Basiji how he thinks Britain should have dealt with the large-scale slaughters in Kenya in the early 1950s?

    Or, is someone in your thinking, “defending genocide” is he asks Bussed-In Basiji if he regrets the existence of the US?

  248. kooshy says:

    Gav

    I would think you wouldn’t mind a little bit of genocide, occasionally if you see a good workable genocide here and there why not you take it.
    You know, just once in a while like a good Brit you are you see a good genocide you wouldn’t say no to it, would you?

    Hey what’s life for, an invasion here an occupation there,a little genocide in between they are all good, at the end of day it all will workout, they sure do.

  249. Kathleen says:

    Top Reasons Israel’s Likud Really Opposes an Iran Nuclear Deal
    http://www.juancole.com/

  250. fyi says:

    All:

    In the Halls of the Mad King (wonder never ceases – where do Americans get such kind of people, is there a factory somewhere …?)

    http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/protecting-the-east-coast-from-iranian-missiles

  251. Karl.. says:

    Was it really wise for FMs to travel to Geneva? Seems like they arent close to a deal at all. According to news Israel tries to block it.

  252. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes you seems to justify genocides by the brittish empire.

  253. Sammy says:

    Today in MoA ( Iran topic ) , by bevin a brilliant thinker :

    ‘The US is in a dilemma and is divided into factions with radically different policies.
    The long dominant neo-cons are still pursuing that elusive global hegemony which will allow them to close up their histories and get down to the business of torturing dissidents and massacring subsistence farmers. They continue to back their boy Netanyahoo. Continuity is their thing. They live in a world in which it is always 1950. Nothing changes. Russia is the source of all evil (defined as defiance of the American Way which is inevitable) China is poor, foreign, non-white, inferior, important only because its population is so vast and antlike. Yes, friends they are racists at heart.

    They are still the most powerful lobby in Washington but they are no longer unchallenged. A growing number of insiders are realising that the world has changed and that the old follies can no longer be persisted in with impunity.
    Iran is a perfect example. For a long time the US has been able to get away without defining its relations with Iran. But now it realises that if it doesn’t work out a modus vivendi with Tehran someone else- the Shanghai Co-operation Pact or whatever it is called- will. China and Russia are sitting patiently on the borders of the middle east. They don’t want to go in but, if they have to they will have to. They cannot allow the US to do an Iraq on Iran. And they won’t.

    So there is a growing party in Washington, which is widely supported in the NATO capitals, pushing for a lowering of military tensions in the region where the prospect of hegemony has begun to disappear and the possibility of defeat and humiliation can not be ignored. There has been a sudden conversion on the road to Damascus.

    And there is something else which is clouding the skies in Washington, and the NATO capitals too. Last week RT reported that the Food Stamp programme is being cut at a time when demand is at record levels. Today PressTV reports that two million Americans are due to lose their Unemployment benefits soon. Meanwhile in Europe interest rates have been cut yet again. Growth is negative. The world economy is settling back into a Depression that has no precedent for breadth or depth.

    They are going to need those armies at home, putting down bread riots and following up leads from the NSA. The US has to change its foreign policy because it cannot change its domestic policy of war against the poor.

    Posted by: bevin | Nov 8, 2013 9:35:02 AM

  254. Fiorangela says:

    Karl.. says: November 9, 2013 at 4:28 am

    ” Seems like they arent close to a deal at all. According to news Israel tries to block it.”

    In other news, dog bites man.

  255. Bibijon says:

    P4+1+Frog
    ========

    “In fact, the French are the big upset in the way of an agreement,” the senior diplomat said, on condition his name or nationality not be named.

    Read more: http://backchannel.al-monitor.com/index.php/2013/11/6941/diplomat-the-western-side-is-divided-over-draft-iran-accord/#ixzz2k9bX4ryS

  256. Karl.. says:

    Bibijon

    These crazy states seems to put Israel above their own interests – they might accomplish to ruin these talks, also Fabius is a zionist and of jewish heritage.

  257. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 8, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    Ian, the son of Zbig, is a chaos profiteer – I don’t know how else to put it. And, yes, there is a factory for these folks but you have to have the “right” aptitude. Reza Pahlavi matriculated in Ian’s alma mater but did not have a chance to finish.

    Ian’s crowning achievement: aid the destruction of what was left of Ukraine’s middle class, and skim as much money as he could. When he was working for Booz Allen, he continued to sell fear and chaos for the right price – from the east coast of the US all the way to the border of Pakistan-Afghanistan.

  258. fyi says:

    All:

    Worth Reading – Dr. Pollack – one of the less-insane in the Halls of the Mad King

    http://nationalinterest.org/print/commentary/five-questions-ken-pollack-iran-syria-9388

  259. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    James,

    Again, what some “blacks” do to other “blacks” is none of your damn business.

    Also, I’m glad you admit to taking it up the bum by the bedouins for money…as the “preferred” bum it seems.

    Go back to Yorkshire, Essex or whatever other English crap-hole you came from.

  260. Karl.. says:

    Seems like there will be no deal now, as soon as Iran showed goodwil the west/israel took advantage and changed their demands.

  261. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Yes, and thus Mr. Khamenei has achieved his political goal – demonstrating to other factions in Tehran who were pressing him for negotiations that there is no deal possible.

    I cannot say that I am surprised.

    The next step will be an implicit deal between US and Iran that by-passes UNSC, EU, and P5+1.

    Note that the French position, once again, demonstrated the hollowness of “Common EU Policy” pretensions.

    The EU consensus on Iran is now in the process of disintegration and Iranian should exploit that to the extent possible.

    I think it is clear now that Mr. Khamenei’s assessment has been correct and that, his “heroic flexibility” tactic has relieved pressure inside Iran as well as demonstrating to audiences outside of Iran that there is no deal to be made with P5+1.

    That game is finally over.

  262. Karl.. says:

    fyi

    Well you are certainly right about France/FM.

    https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/399187019542577152

    Never liked that guy.

  263. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    I said that many people find opportunity in a number of Gulf countries. True? So, this is an “admission” on my part? Curious notion.

  264. Karl.. says:

    French fabious have already began blaming Iran, want Arak shutdown just like his paymaster netanyahu.

    Talks went good until this jerk crashed it, apparently.

  265. James Canning says:

    Bibijon,

    You may or may not have noticed, but I have said a number of times that France appeared to be more opposed to any Iranian enrichment, than the US (or UK).

  266. James Canning says:

    B-I Basiji,

    Britain’s historical connection to several Gulf countries obviously makes it somewhat easier for Brits to achieve success in those countries.

  267. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    In Pollack interview you just linked, Ashley Frohwein states that “the perception that sanctions weren’t working was a key reason for American’s going to war [in Iraq] in 2003.”

    NOT true. And I think an intentional deception by Frohwein, to give cover to those who aided the conspiracy in the US to set up the illegal invasion of Iraq based on knowingly false intelligence.

  268. James Canning says:

    Lara Friedman, on Netanyahu’s effort to block any deal on Iran:

    http://www.lobelog.com/netanyahu-decoded-only-good-iran-deal-is-no-deal/

  269. James Canning says:

    Those seeking better understanding of French viewpoint should read Jamsin Ramsey’s comments:

    http://www.lobelog.com/no-deal-yet-over-irans-nuclear/program/

    Bit issues: 20% U production, and Arak.

  270. Karl.. says:

    James

    In what way is Bahrain situation complicated?

  271. James Canning says:

    “The Turkish press reported that authorities in the province of Adana seized around 1000 rocket warheads on a truck bound for Syria.” (ft.com online today)

  272. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    One important fact about Bahrain: Sunnis are a minority but have preponderance of power. But you of course are aware of this.

  273. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 9, 2013 at 2:21 pm
    “Those seeking better understanding of French viewpoint should read Jamsin Ramsey’s comments:http://www.lobelog.com/no-deal-yet-over-irans-nuclear/program/Bit issues: 20% U production, and Arak.”

    That is bull crap.
    The french leadership is sold out and illegitimate.
    There is nothing more to understand.

  274. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    I should think that Mr. Khamenei and others who share his views are quite pleased with did not happen in Geneva – no deal.

    Clearly, in the light of the theatrical activities in Geneva – 7 foreign ministers being present for the signing of the deal – as well as the trip of the Japanese foreign minister to Tehran – a deal was expected.

    Evidently French killed it (EU killed it).

    There is no downside to this for Iran at all.

  275. A concerned world citizen says:

    It appears those with the most to loose are trying everything to prevent a deal from being reached. France and UK are basically echoing and sticking to Netanyahu’s demands.

    Ladies and gents, this is how you kill the deal of the century. The Zionists lobby has basically move their HQ from NY to London and Paris. Enjoy!!!

    Iran MUST exit the NPT ASAP!!!!

  276. Karl.. says:

    A concerned World Citizen

    Disgusting if israel/france/eu? destroy the deal now.
    At the same time Iran have said they could meet again within 1 week to finish a deal.

  277. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    There will be no formal deal.

    French were trying to pressure Iran on Syria.

    They had been warned by Mr. Khamenei that there could be no linkage.

    Yet, they insisted on that and scuttled the deal (may be they mis-estimated the Iranians’ weakness/strength?).

    The deal is now between US and Iran and will be out of UNSC and P5+1.

    It will be an informal deal – on 20% and a few small other issues but without any strategic ramifications.

    No deal will be concluded that is formal any time soon.

    Today was the last stop before Iran leaving NPT.

    We just passed that station.

  278. A concerned world citizen says:

    My sense is the US will finally realize the French, Israelis and Brits are a drag on their country and will have to ditch them somehow. These three countries were the most gung-ho trying everything in the book to suck the US into a war in Syria but for some reason the Americans used their brains, for once, and pulled back – infuriating the Brits, French and Israelis. This dangerous alliance will have to end some day.

    The US will get along perfectly well without these countries. Whereas those three countries will simply decay over time…This is history in the making..

  279. Karl.. says:

    I guess there must have been some new secret efforts by israel/lobby to kill this deal because a deal was very likely yesterday. France was the real messenger it seems.

  280. Karl.. says:

    Seems like there is a press Conference within coming 1-2 hrs. P5+1 have meeting now.

  281. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    I doubt that.

    France. just like the United States, is a negative power in the international arena.

    France has shown herself to have negative power – still – and to hurt US, Russia, and Iran – this was payback for Syria.

    I think France’s move has destroyed any notion of common EU foreign policy – which is good for Iran.

    She also destroyed the P5+1 unity and reminded any and all that UNSC is powerless now to do anything for Iran – which also means she is even more powerless to do anything against Iran.

    That leaves Iran and US as the only 2 that could still move forward with an informal partial deal.

    It is doubtful that the Mad King or His Court would accept such a deal.

    On the other hand, the failure of Geneva will accelerate the erosion of sanctions against Iran which already had started.

    Basically the world was again exposed to the reality that Axis Powers cannot take a “Yes” for an answer – that they seek humiliation of Iran and the overthrow of her government.

    All of these are positive developments for Iran.

    [Really, to have scuttled this deal over an incomplete nuclear reactor whose proliferation concern, if any, are years into the future indicates a deliberate decision to do so.]

    Winners: Mr. Khamenei, Mr. Netanyahu, Mr. Hollander

    Losers: Mr. Rouhani, Mr. Zarif, Mr. Hague, Mr. Obama, Ms. Ashton

    Biggest Winner: Iran
    Next Biggest: Israel
    Losers: US, UK, Germany, Russia, and China.

  282. James Canning says:

    Concerned,

    Hollande was angry Obama decline to attack Syria. I’m not so sure Cameron felt the same way.

  283. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    If Iran were to leave the NPT, chances of a deal between Iran and the US would be ZERO.

  284. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Are you claiming France is not concerned about 20% U and Arak? Only pretending to be concerned? Or, are you arguying French concern is not legitimate for other reasons?

  285. James Canning says:

    I have suggested for years now, that Iran would do well to unilaterally suspend enriching to 20%. I see no reason to change this viewpoint.

  286. James Canning says:

    “The best solution would be to try to transform [Arak] into a light-water research reactor. . .”
    – – Daryl Kimball (quoted in Jamsin Ramsey’s piece at lobelog.com)

  287. A concerned world citizen says:

    James Canning says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Cameron was very angry the UK parliament didn’t vote in favor of his war..Please stop whitewashing UK politicians lies.You tend to do that a lot. We’re not in the 1930s anymore where information is restricted to the privileged few..(see here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10275158/Syria-crisis-No-to-war-blow-to-Cameron.html).

    In fact, the quest/campaign for war was more ferocious in the UK political circles that in the US. Obama had to defer the decision to congress after Cameron was defeated in Parliament.

    The UK is nothing without America. They’ve been hanging on the coattails of the US since the British empire collapse. Ever heard of the much touted “special relationship”??? They’re like hyenas/vultures that feed on the hard work of the US..

    It will also interest you to know that Cameron and Hague were/are all staunch members of the “friends of Israel” club in parliament. Go figure!!!

  288. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 7, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    That is semantics.

    Earl of Angus killed/murdered a weak guy from lower strata of society who was not considered to be noble enough. A self made man. This poor guy probably did not have even the value of a shrub in the eye of the monarch and the nobility. That example is useless here.

    You still did not elaborate how to bell the cat. Not at all. You argument is logically fallacious somewhere between the appeal to reward and circular reasoning.

    The only way to be safe in this world is to have long range nuclear munitions. Nothing substitutes that. Not even if few very exceptional Americans/non-Americans agree that Iran is not at fault.

    In Farsi we have an age old fable. A man is sitting next to Caspian sea, holding in his hand a pot of yogurt. He repeatedly takes spoonful of yogurt and adds it in the sea’s water and meticulously dissolves it in sea water. A guy who was passing by, asks the mas what he is doing. The man replies, he wants to turn Caspian sea to “doogh” (a drink made from yogurt and salt water). The guy tells the man that it is lunacy and it is not possible to do that. The man tells, he knows that very well. But adds ageh bisheh chi misheh (it would be great if some how it happened).

    White man only understands the language of force. Massive force, as it appears. That is why long range nuclear weapons have a chance at keeping peace.

  289. Karl.. says:

    fyi

    This is more about Israel than France, france wouldnt win over the rest of the P5+1 if this wasnt about israel.

  290. Smith says:

    Statistically/Scientifically that would not be for Iran.

    From engineering point of view, these systems always have inefficiencies. Say such a system is efficacious 50% of the time.

    A dozen Iranian munitions would not warrant the huge costs of such a system since still half a dozen munitions would get through.

    But impact of Russia’s first strike force of about 1000 munitions can be significantly blunted if 500 of them were rendered useless before reaching designated target. Specially taking into account if Russia does not develop/afford such a system, meaning that All American munitions will impact their targets in Russia.

    Iran is just an excuse.

    The same way Iran was an excuse during The Great Game between Russia, France and UK.

    Such is the story of a weak country.

  291. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    I think politically it matters not; the fact remains that in 2010 or in 2013 Axis Powers could not take a “yes” from Iran.

    This, together with the strategic clarity of a the coming war against Iran by the Mad King (if not all His Barons) have been tremendous political gains for Iran.

    The next step, not sure when, would be Iran leaving the NPT.

    This is now almost certain.

  292. Karl.. says:

    Ok now an agreement seems to have been made..

    https://twitter.com/Gharebag

  293. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Your way of putting things is beautiful.

    But somehow I do not think that is it.

    I think it is all a well scripted theatrical. Otherwise the two cent whore of US (France) does not have in herself to overrule the mad king.

    I think US needs a whore to take the flak for failure of the talks, as this time it is more difficult to put all the blame on Iran. They would basically now say, talks failed because of intransigence of Iran and “French” concerns.

    The moment the foreign minister petite whore came out and said, “moment must be seized”, and this coming out of the mouth of greatest historical enemy of Iran, I knew it is all a theater.

    In reality mad king and his barons/whores are all the same.

  294. A concerned world citizen says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    Ok now an agreement seems to have been made..

    https://twitter.com/Gharebag

    I won’t hold ma breath… France’s already poisoned the atmosphere with Netanyahu’s bad breath. Any deal reached will be almost meaningless…For Russia and China, they don’t give a damn which way it goes. They’ll keep gaining concessions from both sides. Those two have been the top beneficiaries of this artificially generated “tensions”.

  295. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    I guess it is an “agreement to meet again”.

    Expect more sanctions.

  296. Karl... says:

    France ended its aggression? Deal in reach?
    https://twitter.com/lrozen

  297. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    You may be right,

    “meeting in 10 Days” according to this:
    https://twitter.com/Gharebag

  298. Karl.. says:

    Interesting comments about france @ https://twitter.com/rezamarashi

  299. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 8, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    See

    Smith says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:22 pm

  300. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    “Nico,

    Are you claiming France is not concerned about 20% U and Arak? Only pretending to be concerned? Or, are you arguying French concern is not legitimate for other reasons?”

    I am claiming that it is not in France interest to have such position.
    Thus the french leadership is obviously motivated by ulterior goals than France interests.

  301. Fiorangela says:

    Smith says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    I like doogh.
    Had it in Iran but have not been able to find it in the US. live in a place where few Iranians live; several Indian restaurants around but they don’t do doogh.

    An Iranian friend showed me how to make doogh in a blender, using yoghurt, salt, and time.

  302. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 9, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    It is a good drink. Easy to make. Though do not use lots of salt. Not really healthy then.

    There is also a fermented version of it, which is more popular in Indian subcontinent.

  303. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 9, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    James,

    are you suggesting that you know for a fact what France is or is not concerned with?

  304. Fiorangela says:

    Is it possible to Tweet energy drinks to Mr. Zarif in Geneva? In the old days we used to pray for people who were in tough situations. In the good old days we used to pray for people like Zarif who were putting all their energy & intellect on the line to produce a good outcome. Prayers are ok, but energy/stamina/physical & mental wellbeing and a good night’s sleep are probably important too.

    Remember how this blog went crazy when the Brazil-Turkey-Iran deal was announced?

  305. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 9, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    I would not worry about that. He is a pro and has the backing of Mr Khamenei. Iranians in general love to haggle. They sleep better after a good day of haggling. Pray for Iranian nation, though. They need that for the coming war (specifically pray for the engineers and scientists at work).

  306. Karl.. says:

    No deal reached said by french FM Before pressconference

  307. Jay says:

    I think the absence of a deal is an excellent outcome.

    Domestically, Mr. Khamenei illustrated that the enemity of the West has no bounds and they will not agree to any deal short of Iran’s surrender. Mr. Rouhani, having shown leadership, and having tried to be reasonable, will have the support of the Iranians for belt tightening and moving forward.

    Internationally, Iran has demonstrated diplomacy and willingness to work for a solution – having demonstrated clearly that the West does not want a deal. It is to the credit of the Iranians.

    I do not agree with the notion that the French ruined the deal. No! The French were assigned the “bad cop” job while US and UK played good cop. They hoped Iranians would cave under the good cop/bad cop pressure – it did not happen. Otherwise, French are third rate actors in this game – they get their orders and they act on it.

    Iran will continue to advance her program, and she will continue to push for positive diplomacy. Iran will continue to paint the West as intransigent supremacist. Mr. Kerry now has to deal with the train that left the station!

  308. Richard Steven Hack says:

    No deal…although they’re still trying…allegedly…Meanwhile…

    “You’re Going to See the Dam Break Loose”: Congress Poised to Pounce on Iran Deal
    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/11/08/youre_going_to_see_the_dam_break_loose_congress_poised_to_pounce_on_iran_deal

  309. Richard Steven Hack says:

    And this looks likely…He’s certainly going to try.

    How Netanyahu could kill a nuclear deal with Iran
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/11/08/how-netanyahu-could-kill-a-nuclear-deal-with-iran/

    And if all else fails, he can still force Israel to attack Iran itself or heat up the Syria/Lebanon crisis again.

  310. fyi says:

    All:

    The Keyhan editorial yesterday seemed to have anticipated this theatre and this outcome.

    Please see (in Persian):

    http://www.kayhan.ir/920818/3.htm#N301

  311. fyi says:

    Richard Steven Hack says:

    November 9, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    No.

    Israelis will not attack Iran; they will try to persuade the Mad King to do so.

    Not that the Mad King needs much of persuasion.

    As long as the courtiers do not admit that they are at War with Islam and the Islamic Republic of Iran holds the key to end of that war, we will not see any changes.

  312. Smith says:

    Americans taking Iran’s Sistan va Baluchistan water supply/environment hostage in order to make Iran give up its nuclear technology: http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/publications/issue-briefs/iran-afghanistan-and-south-asia-resolving-regional-sources-of-instability

  313. Fiorangela says:

    Anyone who is suffering with a partially exploded brain after observing the Iran-Geneva theater can complete the job by listening to Jerrold Green, bigot extraordinaire, and his sidekick, Congressperson Shelley Berkeley of Nevada, discuss Iran.

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/DiscussiononU

    Berkeley ranted about the necessity of placing MORE sanctions on Iran, until they come around to the right way — i.e. the US way — of thinking.

    Her language was very close to the language Edwin Black used to describe the boycott that “international Jewry” declared against Germany in March 1933 and prosecuted until the US and Germany were formally at war, in 1941. Both Berkeley and Black said the goal of the sanctions/boycott was to “bring Iran/Germany to its knees;” to “destroy the Iranian/German economy.”

    History records that the boycott of Germany was never lifted; it eventuated in a war that ravaged Germany and resulted in the deaths of many millions of people.

  314. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 9, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    In Indian restaurants, they must have similar. It is called “lassi”.

    Fiorangela says:
    November 9, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Iran’s economy will not be destroyed by sanctions (that is if Iranian government invests in R&D and human thinking). Actually it is going to cure Iran’s chronic Dutch disease. You would not believe the inefficiencies, Iran’s economy has internalized over the past 100 years. For instance, Iran buys expensive wheat mostly from US and pays smugglers and middle men heavy commissions to bypass sanctions, then it greatly subsidizes this wheat for the local market. The Iranian farmer then has to compete with this subsidized wheat in addition to battling droughts, pests and government interference.

    It is impossible to sanction a country like Iran provided that Iranians themselves do not sanction themselves by creating inefficiencies and by not using their brains. Germany was dependent on outside eg for oil, ores, etc. Iran has no such dependency. It has almost everything inside the country (only there is lack of brains capable of thought).

    Furthermore, war is not possible either. Since Iran will be out of NPT and will be nuclear armed.

    Iranians have to stop seeing US as the savior on a white horse coming to solve their chronic problems mostly to do with their laziness in thinking. Iranians have to learn that they will have to solve their problems themselves. It is no use crying in TV/Radio/Print a river because France does not provide Iran with enoxaparin. Basically if you do not have the capability to develop your own enoxaparin/ turbofan engine/ electronic storage then you should not have “expectation” of “right to use” either. At least not under your terms and conditions.

  315. Smith says:

    Meanwhile from Iran’s neighbors: http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/201183/reftab/36/t/When-will-Tehran-stop-enrichment-of-sedition/Default.aspx

    Note: It is the same neighbor that bankrolled Saddam’s attack on Iran and then when Saddam attacked it, Iran was the first to open its border for its refugees and condemned Saddam’s attack before any condemnation had come from “world”, US, Saudi etc. The question is how dare they? A lilliputian state. That is right, it is because it is the mad king that is talking through their mouth. Otherwise they would not dare.

  316. nico says:

    That round of negociation ended in abysmal failure.
    The political will that was heiled with the minister level attendance only proved to be the a confirmantion of what obtained for the last decade.
    The next round is schéma scheduled on November 20. At expert level.
    No need to say that when they could not an agreement at ministerial level, then there is zero chance of an agreement down the road at lower level.

    That is the end of the negpciation for the next year or so. At least.
    And much likely until Arak come on stream.
    Only then the west will come to realize that the game is over. As it already was for years.
    Only coward politicians were not willing to tell the hard truth to their constituencies and rather preferred to lie in their bankrupt and corrupt ways.

    What a shame.

  317. M.Ali says:

    Just finished reading Herodotus’ Histories. I guess, this song and dance between Iranians and the west has been going on for more than 3000 years, so I don’t think this meeting will change much. Herodotus might as well be a contemporary New York Times writer. He seems to “respect” all cultures, but clearly Western culture is the best, and they love freedom and democracy, while Persians are rubbish in regards to human rights.

  318. M.Ali says:

    Smith, just read the Arabtimes article. Good for a laugh.

    Poor Gulf countries. They probably know how dispensable they are.

  319. Karl.. says:

    nico

    You might be right but expert level mean they advance, at same time, the coming 10 days will Israel do everything to destroy a possible deal. The already israelis threat that west will face terror from Iran in the future if a deal is made. Sick people.

  320. Karl.. says:

    M ali

    Correct, why doesnt these sheiks go to Iran and make peace? No instead they buy arms for billions and kill shias all over the region.

  321. nico says:

    Karl.. says:

    “November 10, 2013 at 5:22 amnicoYou might be right but expert level mean they advance, at same time, the coming 10 days will Israel do everything to destroy a possible deal. The already israelis threat that west will face terror from Iran in the future if a deal is made. Sick people.”

    It has never been an expert issue but a political one to be sorted out at political level.
    That failed.

    The US diplomats could have sold an agreement to the congress as a deal between powers and could have cornered the domestic opponents to a deal.
    That failed and now the opponent can regroup and built up the counter attack.
    The momentum has been built for a deal THIS week and I fail to see how that could be repeated in the future.

  322. Bibijon says:

    What Really Happened (someone else’s TM) “Lavrov just went into the bar. Not kidding.”
    ==========================================================================

    Single most important event was tweeted by Hooman Majd at 6:44 PM – 9 Nov 2013
    https://twitter.com/hmajd/statuses/399321667006394368

    What was Lavarov celebrating? Failure to reach a US-Iran deal is too passé to merit drinks at Swiss extortionate prices. He was celebrating a break in the ranks of US-UK and France.

    As per Guardian’s Julian Borger:

    Quote
    —–

    Privately, however, other diplomats at the talks were furious with the role of the French foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, whom they accused of breaking ranks by revealing details of the negotiations as soon as he arrived in Geneva on Saturday morning, and then breaking protocol again by declaring the results to the press before Ashton and Zarif had arrived at the final press conference.

    some western officials accused France of sabotaging the hopes of a deal to curry favour with Israel and the Gulf Arab states.

    End Quote
    ———

    Order another round
    ==================

    Yes folks. The very Catholic, and pristinely Socialist Fabius has trotted out a whole new meaning to the:

    “900-foot quay allocated to the French navy in Abu Dhabi’s Zayed Port, a French air force installation at the Dhafra Air Base just outside the city and a barracks at a downtown military camp for several hundred French soldiers.

    The outposts are France’s first permanent overseas military installations outside its former colonies in Africa in 50 years, reflecting a shift in national security strategy” as per WP on May 27, 2009.

    Add to that Libya (led from behind/dragged by the nose), Syria, and Mali, then you get the picture: The frog is play solo. There’s not enough vodka in Geneva to do justice to Russian celebrations.

    For, me this is even better news than I had hoped. There’re now even more reasons for for US-UK realignment with Iran. US embassy in Tehran by February next year? You bet.

  323. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Expert level (most likely) mean they are finished with the political and try to create an actual deal which need experts.

  324. Karl.. says:

    Bibijon

    Most likely Lavrov was exhausted and irritated that there was no deal after all these days.

  325. Bibijon says:

    Karl,

    deep strategists tend to be indefatigable.

  326. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 10, 2013 at 5:43 am
    “NicoExpert level (most likely) mean they are finished with the political and try to create an actual deal which need experts”

    You mean like the last round of expert talks ?
    There is no political agreement.

  327. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Monty Python couldn’t have written a funnier exchange…

    BiB: Also, I’m glad you admit to taking it up the bum by the bedouins for money…as the “preferred” bum it seems.

    JC: Britain’s historical connection to several Gulf countries obviously makes it somewhat easier for Brits to achieve success in those countries.

  328. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Yes expert talks refer to the actual formation of a deal. What this and that side must do. But as I said I could be wrong.

    I think a deal is closer in many years still we have huge problems with Israel/France apparently.

  329. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    BibiJon,

    As Jay and closet-case said, France is not an independent strategic actor “opposed” to the US.

    It’s operations in Africa are part of larger US global strategy and it was assigned the role even during the Cold War. Nothing new here.

    The French troops in PG are there to basically increase the cost for Iran if it retaliates in case of a war- having to attack US AND French bases instead of “just” US bases.

    The French are not independent strategic actors and they will not lose the presence they already have in Iran to US- politically and economically- because of Israel and Arabs.

    I will take your bet that by February there will be no US embassy in Iran.

    But it’s not a fair bet cuz like I said, all we have to do is storm it when it opens…

    The problem is America- or more specifically American elites- not Iran, Israel, Arabs etc.

    The Israelis and Saudis are doing what any country would do to influence another country. The problem is why do American elites allow it to happen at the cost of their own national interests?

    This is the crux of the matter.

    You haven’t presented a good analysis/response to this matter, because in my view you have a misplaced faith in these American elites- a position which is unreasonable in light of what history has shown us.

  330. Bibijon says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 10, 2013 at 6:55 am

    Dear BiB,

    don’t ask for my analysis; I’ll get a headache.

    But I do have a rather unoriginal answer for the question: “The Israelis and Saudis are doing what any country would do to influence another country. The problem is why do American elites allow it to happen at the cost of their own national interests?”

    My answer: the emperor needs his barons, for being sucked up to, in good times; for helping out in bad times. Unfortunately, in bad times some barons, especially the ones with historical peeves against other barons, start to get unruly.

    In this case, Sarkozy came and lathered up the Congress in Nov 2007 and finished with:

    “Ladies and Gentlemen,

    I want to be your friend, your ally and your partner. But a friend who stands on his own two feet. An independent ally. A free partner.

    France must be stronger. I am determined to carry through with the reforms that my country has put off for all too long. I will not turn back, because France has turned back for all too long. My country has enormous assets. While respecting its unique identity, I want to put it into a position to win all the battles of globalization.”
    http://www.nysun.com/national/speech-by-president-sarkozy-before-congress/

    Thus the neo-conning of France was heralded. Fast forward to Nov 2013. US did not want to follow/lead from behind and bomb Syria in any militarily decisive manner, mostly because it would scupper a realignment with Iran. France now gets to legitimize Saudi/Israeli claptrap about Iran, and quickly form a French/Saudi/Israeli axis in defiance of US (poking UK in the eye is just a cherry on top.) Being hot-blooded Mediterraneans, the French don’t do long-term conniving; Saudi money, Israeli influence in Congress just seemed like all you need to make France grand again. Monkey Bush (Bandar) knew well how to massage the Frog’s ego and got the whole ball rolling. Historically the French unrehearsed/ill-prepared unruliness has been smacked down by the more patient Anglos, this time it might be urinated on at record speed. See www dot emptywheel dot net/2013/11/09/after-reportedly-being-offered-saudi-weapons-sales-france-blows-up-iran-deal/

    Unbeknownst to the connivers, they have just played right into Iran’s hands. Whereas US had global geostrategic reasons for burying the hatchet with Iran, she now has the added incentive of corralling PG satraps, shutting up Netanyahu, and make a frog souffle for desert.

    BTW I don’t see a US/Iran realignment as that of “sheep trusting the wolf.” Today Iran is way too powerful to be characterized as the hapless sheep, and the US is way too overstretched to want to play wolf. This is an alliance of equals for building extremely consequential fortifications.

    In short, US is about to wink at a nuclear threshold status for Iran without any deals. If February is too far out, here’s another bet: Kerry will be in Tehran some time between Thanksgiving and Xmas.

  331. Fiorangela says:

    In Versailles negotiations, Clemenceau was the designated bad guy to insist that Germany bear full blame for WWI. The other parties — Britain & France — were deeply in debt and needed to shift the burden elsewhere. “Winners” out of Versailles were, in Edwin Black’s words, “Zionists, who returned from Versailles in triumph: they acquired a homeland for Jews in Palestine AND assurance of rights of Jews in Germany.” [The Transfer Agreement,1984 Edwin Black, p. 78].

    In addition to humiliating Germany, Versailles betrayed promises of self-determination to the former states of the Ottoman empire, for the benefit of Britain (primarily) and France, who had already carved up Ottoman. Haul out your old PuttPutt score cards and do a tally: who were the winners, who were the losers, and what has changed.

    Stephen Sniegoski posted a comprehensive review of the hitherto untold history of Iran –my guess is some here might bristle at the title, but it does reflect reality Iran as a Twentieth Century Victim: 1900 Through the Aftermath of World War II

  332. Sammy says:

    Bibijon says:
    November 10, 2013 at 8:57 am

    ‘Kerry will be in Tehran some time between Thanksgiving and Xmas..

    Very likely to happen , as : Alea iacta est ( in Divine sense )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alea_iacta_est

  333. Bibijon says:

    Done with the vodka, time to fish in muddy waters
    ================================================

    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_11_10/Putin-Saudi-king-discuss-Syria-Iran-6917/

  334. nico says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 10, 2013 at 6:55 am
    “BibiJon,
    As Jay and closet-case said, France is not an independent strategic actor “opposed” to the US.”

    I do not share your analysis for once that was a preplanned stunt by the US asking for France playinc the spoiler.
    Suffice to see the uncomfartable US diplomatic silence about the event.
    Not the US type of managing communication.

    France sabotaged the deal knowingly.

    http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13920819001326

    As much as it pains me to admit that at the current juncture France is much more zionist controlled than the US.
    It is a known fact in France.

  335. Kathleen says:

    Small actions. Seems to be an older petition being re-circulated
    Obama: Please meet with Iran

    http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/obama-please-meet-with

  336. Jay says:

    In the transnational corporatist realm, nationality and elitism take on a different meaning. When one asks, “why the American elite do this to themselves?”, there is a presumption regarding the meaning of the word “American” – or, “French” for that matter.

    American elites live on their own “island” of wealth and prosperity – wether it is in D.C. or Dubai. What matters to elites of French origin, American origin, or the Gulf Monarchy origin, and others is the preservation of the status quo so profiteering can continue – those who carry water for the elites will get paid handsomely. I used the word origin to emphasize that the place of birth is irrelevant – it is commonality of purpose. The French foreign minister is a faithful servant of his masters.

    The government apparatus in the US, UK, France, Canada, … no longer serves the citizenry – you can put your doubts to rest by examining the fiscal crises of recent in the US, UK and Canada and discovering who has benefited and how. This is simply the emergent politics and policies of the rich elites across the globe.

    Iran, with her enormous natural resources, attractive human resources, and massive untapped potential for profits is simply a “prize” for these elites.

    In the unlikely event that there is a US embassy opened in Iran, the race for the prize will continue full force! Recall that having obtained the Qaddafi’s acquiescence, the game continued until the destruction of Libya was obtained.

    Iranian diplomats would have signed the agreement. Yet, they knew that any agreement is unlikely. As I stated earlier, the gambit paid off. Iran has now unequivocally demonstrated to her citizens the deep enmity and distaste of the West for Iran’s independence. If there were any doubters in Iran’s political apparatus, or any fence sitters in the citizenry, they have now mostly moved in the direction of the Supreme Leader’s view. Any move forward from this point on will have the strong support of the vast majority of Iranians. This is an excellent outcome!

  337. Kathleen says:

    FYI “The next step, not sure when, would be Iran leaving the NPT.

    This is now almost certain.”

    Please explain

  338. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    BibiJon-jan, (and nico-jan),

    Please read this section of SL’s speech:

    “The issue is not that they have disagreements with the Islamic Republic about its nuclear program. This is not the case. America’s sanctions began since the beginning of the Revolution and these sanctions increased on a daily basis so much so that today, it has reached a high level.

    They showed other kinds of hostility as well. They brought down a plane which belonged to the Islamic Republic and they killed 290 humans. During the early years of the Revolution, when the people were still enthusiastic about the victory of the Revolution, they launched the coup d’état based in Shahid Nojeh military base. They launched a coup d’état against the Revolution and they supported anti-revolutionary elements in different corners of the country. They gave weapons and other such things to the anti-revolutionary camp. This is the same thing that they did in other countries later on. Their enmity is not based on the nuclear issue. The issue is something else. The Iranian nation said no to the requests of America. The Iranian nation said that America cannot do a damn thing against us.

    The Americans are opposed to the identity of the Islamic Republic. They are opposed to the influence and power of the Islamic Republic. Recently, one of the American politicians and intellectuals said – his speech was broadcast and this is not a confidential issue – that Iran is dangerous, no matter if it is atomic or non-atomic. This person openly said that the influence and power of Iran – as they say, the hegemony of Iran – is dangerous in the region. This is the kind of Iran which enjoys dignity, respect and power today. They are opposed to this kind of Iran. They will be satisfied when Iran becomes a weak, abandoned, isolated, untrustworthy and humiliated nation. Their enmity is not based on the nuclear issue. This is one point.

    Another point is that in order to solve the economic issues of the country, all our efforts should be focused on domestic issues. The kind of progress and the kind of solution is valuable which is reliant on the domestic power of a nation. If a people rely on their own power and capabilities, they will no more descend into chaos when another country frowns at and imposes sanctions on them. We should solve this. All that we want to say to officials – whether past or present officials – is that they should look at domestic capabilities in order to resolve the issues and the problems of the country including economic problems. We have certain capacities in the country. These capacities – which include human, natural and geographical resources and regional location – should be utilized.

    Of course, we support diplomatic dynamism. When we say problems should be solved from the inside, this does not mean that we should close our eyes, that we should not benefit from diplomatic dynamism and that we should not interact with the world. Diplomatic dynamism and diplomatic presence are very necessary. The officials who do these things are part of the work, but we should rely on domestic issues. In diplomatic arenas, that country can be successful which relies on its innate power. That government which relies on its innate power and innate capacities can make others accept what it says at the negotiating table and achieve the desired results. Such governments are taken into consideration.

    An important point which should receive attention in this regard is that we have never become desperate in the face of our enemies during these years and we will never become desperate in the future. During the first decade after the Revolution, particularly during the first years, we did not have access to many material resources. We did not have money, we did not have weapons, we did not have experience, we did not have organization, we did not have competent armed forces and we did not have military equipment. This was while our enemy was at the peak of his power and capability, whether the enemy which fought against us in the arena of war or the enemy which stood behind him – that is to say, the Ba’ath regime of Saddam and America, NATO and the Soviet Union of those days. At that time, the Reagan administration was one of the strongest and most powerful governments throughout the world in political and military arenas. This was while we lived in poverty and with difficult conditions, but they could not do anything to us.

    Today, the situation has changed. Today, the Islamic Republic has weapons. Today, it has money, it has science, it has technology, it has the power to produce, it has international dignity, it has millions of youth who are ready to work and it has millions of talents. Today, we have such a condition. Today, our condition cannot at all be compared with 30 years ago. This is while the situation is the exact opposite of this for the opposing camp.

    In those days, the Americans were at the peak of their power, but today they are not. Recently, one of the current American government officials, who is a well-known personality, said that today America has reached a point where its friends do not respect it and its enemies do not fear it. It was he who said this, not us. They themselves mention such things.

    Recently, they have had some political problems. You have seen the disagreement of American politicians about the government’s budget which shut down the government for 16, 17 days. They sent 800,000 employees on involuntary leave. This is a weakness. This is inefficiency. They have the biggest economic and financial problems. Our problems are nothing compared to their problems.

    And I will tell you that in the year 2001 or 2002 of the Christian calendar – that is to say, 10, 11 years ago – the financial officials of America made a certain prediction. They predicted that in the year 2011 or 2012, they would have a surplus of 14 trillion dollars. Pay careful attention to this. In 2001, their prediction for 2011 and 2012 was this: they said that in 2011 and 2012 they would have a surplus of 14 trillion dollars. Now, it is 2013, but they have a deficit of around 17 trillion dollars and they do not have any surplus. That is to say, they miscalculated this figure up to 30 trillion dollars. This is their economic condition. This is the way they calculate. This is the condition in the opposing camp.

    Moreover, as you can see, they have many disagreements. It is mutual interests which have connected them – the Americans and the Europeans – to one another. Otherwise, deep inside, they are on unfriendly terms. The French nation hates the Americans. In different events such as the issue of Syria, the Americans could not establish a partnership with a government which has the closest relationship with them. That is to say, even the English said that we would not take part in this issue. This is while about 40 governments cooperated with them when they attacked Iraq. When they attacked Afghanistan, about 30 governments cooperated with them. The Americans have such a condition in the present time.

    We have a very good condition. We have made progress, we have become powerful and our people have become a well-informed people. Of course, they exert pressures on us. We should endure and pass through these pressures by relying on our domestic capabilities. This is a wise thing to do and it is being done. Of course, as I said earlier – and I would like to repeat this – we approve of the efforts that the honorable administration and the officials of the country are making. This is an important task and experience and it is most probably a valuable course of action. They can do this. If they achieve results, then so much the better. But if they do not achieve results, this should mean that the county must stand on its own feet in order to solve its problems. I would like to repeat my previous advice: you should not trust the enemy which smiles at you. We would like to offer this advice to our officials, who are our children. Those officials who are working in the arena of diplomacy are our own children and our own youth. This is our advice to them: you should take care not to be misled by a deceptive smile. You should see the subtleties of the enemy’s plans.”

    What you say is based on the premise that US admin/parts of the elite have decided to realign/whatever you wanna call it- with Iran and accept Iran as it is, doing kinda what the Leveretts are recommending.

    Well, I don’t see any evidence of this. What I see is the US is desperate for domestic and global reasons and desperately wants a deal to bridge the time- to eventually get back to the main task- regime change in Iran and a non-Islamic, western dependent Iran.

    I’m sorry if you don’t see this- either out of naivety or otherwise.

    “This is an alliance of equals for building extremely consequential fortifications.”

    I think you are deluded, again there is nothing of “mutual benefit” between Iran and US. The US is desperate and wants a “good deal” and wants to frame it as though Iran also is desperate. Well, Iran is not desperate for a deal.

    Also I never claimed anything like “sheep trusting wolf”- it’s more like “ensan trusting hayvan” in my view. American elites are “hayvan”, right?

    As SL said, these talks are about nuclear program and “nothing else”. On this issue Iran has showed its goodwill but it is US- either directly through its officials or indirectly through allies like France- that can’t take yes for an answer.

    You claim separate French policy. Well France may “wish” to be an independent power- even as SL says because of its “hatred” of US- but again “reality” is something different.

    I think you don’t appreciate the domestic dynamics in both US and Iran. I think that you unfortunately trust and believe in American elites contrary to the lessons of history.

    In this month of Muharram let me sum it up this way: When you “like” both Hussein and Yazid at the same time- even if you “like” Hussein a bit more- than you are the one with the problem. I hope you get what I’m telling you.

  339. Karl.. says:

    Great – See the comments at fabious facebook, almost all negative.

    https://www.facebook.com/laurent.fabius.5

  340. nico says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 10, 2013 at 11:14 am

    I never said that the US are realigning.
    I think the US have no choice other than to recognize and live with an independent Iran.
    Like they live with an independent Russia.
    Otherwise they can still have no relation with an expanding power for the next 50 years as well.
    Is that a sensible policy for the US ?
    And for Iran as a major regional actor to not have a relation based on respect with the biggest western power ?

    Well I think it is against the US and against Iran medium and long term interest.

  341. nico says:

    From the start Iran’s revolutiln was about being treated as equal and invited to the powers table.

    That is what it is all about.
    Recognition of Iran as a power. And an independent one.

    No need ti say that powers have their differences.

  342. Fiorangela says:

    Jay says: November 10, 2013 at 10:21 am

    “Iran, with her enormous natural resources, attractive human resources, and massive untapped potential for profits is simply a “prize” for these elites.
    In the unlikely event that there is a US embassy opened in Iran, the race for the prize will continue full force! Recall that having obtained the Qaddafi’s acquiescence, the game continued until the destruction of Libya was obtained.”

    Stuart Eizenstat (who was also a charter member of the Jewish People Policy Planning Initiative, chaired by Dennis Ross) also leads a task force within The Atlantic Council. It’s purpose is to plan for bringing Iran into the international community. Barbara Slavin is the organizing force on the Iran portfolio.

    Recently, the group conferred on progress to date. The agenda item that received most attention was water, including water usage for Afghanistan and its impact on Iran. It appears the USAID and US Army Corps of Engineers have been building dams to provide water for Afghan villages etc., and the restrictions are causing drought conditions down-stream — in Iran.

    Much concern for the water wellbeing of Iranians was expressed by conference participants, and mention was made of the readiness of entities to provide loans and engineering assistance to dumb, broke Iranians to fix their water systems. In other words, the classic methods of Disaster Capitalism are salivating at the prospect of ensnaring Iran.

    At least one Iranian has studied the situation from a different point of view. He thinks qanats are a superior form of water supply, and that rather than building reservoirs and dams, resources should committed to restoring the qanats. http://www.omicsonline.org/achieving-ground-water-sustainability-in-iran-through-sanat-rejuvenation-2157-7587.1000150.pdf

  343. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    nico-jan,

    I think the US never wanted to concede as much as what would have been necessary for a deal- see Kerry’s repeated “no deal is better than a bad deal”.

    I think the US didn’t want to appear as the spoiler and France was ready to do it.

    Why?

    Well, I think the current French admin are extreme secularist ideologues who on a fundamental level hate anything related to religious government. They have made themselves believe their own propaganda that the IRI will fall “soon”. So who cares we’ll take the blame and will be the “good guys” “with the oppressed Iranian people” when “a new democratic regime” comes.

    They are idiots, arrogant and strategically totally incompetent. What can I say.

    We saw in the last 10 years how France lost much of its economic presence in Iran (Renault, Peugeout etc.) and thousands of French jobs were lost- for what? Because of US-Israeli pressure.

    That’s not what “independent” powers do.

    Iranians have always been quite happy to work with the French against the US-UK- even after the revolution. Imam (r) himself sent MJ Larijani as a personal envoy to Paris during the war to see if the French would secretly send us weapons for “advantages” after the war. Well, Moussavi and US-UK spies in his admin went into overdrive and sent a message to France that Imam’s (r) envoy is not authorized to negotiate anything. The stupid secular French pulled back- because hey Moussavi is the PM and who is this cleric Imam (r) right? Instead they sent jets to Saddam and gave the intestinal parasite Rajavi cult “asylum”.

    Then they brought in there old agent Shapour Bakhtiar (French citizen, French wife, fought in French resistance in WWII) in to work with Saddam for setting up a “nationalist” army on Iraqi soil. Well, we know how that ended, right?

    Brilliantly defending France’s strategic interests, right?

    It’s the idiot-arrogant (this particular combination) French “strategists” who never get it. Like so many times in the last 35 years, the French screw it up for themselves in Iran.

    That doesn’t mean that Iran will be rolling out the red carpet for US-UK instead as some falsely believe.

    Those days of “playing one western power out against another” out of desperation a la Qajar, Pahlavi are thank God over.

  344. fyi says:

    Kathleen says:
    November 10, 2013 at 11:00 am

    France has publicly and thoroughly destroyed the theoretical/hypothetical possibility of successful negotiations with Iran.

    Her insistence on the closure of Arak – at the cost of very publicly destroying the common P5+1 and EU negotiation stands – has meant that no deal could be possibly be reached between P5+1 and Iran, or EU and Iran, or US and Iran that would respect the sovereign rights of Iran.

    [Arak, as I have said, is essential for a research and development, without it, Darkhovin cannot be built, and Iranian investment in nuclear technology would become just expensive toys.

    And it was of very distant proliferation concern, a zero-out put graphite moderated reactor can be built in Iran – Iran has that technology – for the purposes of plutonium production.]

    France – for reasons of payback for Syria or love of Israel – has rendered a great strategic service to Iran that Iran cannot even hypothetically entertain the possibility of successful negotiations with Axis Powers, P5+1, EU etc. – that is dead and gone.

    Since there is no chance of successful negotiations under the current frameworks with Iran resulting in the removal of sanctions, it follows that Iran remaining in NPT is no longer necessary.

    In less than 3 months we have the strategic clarity that US will attack Iran at any opportune time as well as that the sanctions are here to stay and will not be removed in anytime frame that makes any difference to Iran.

    [The sanctions pushed 13 million people below poverty line, for example.]

    This is now understood by all international actors – that the P5+1, EU, Axis Powers etc. cannot deliver (to Iran).

    Iranians should publicly make one last appeal for the removal of sanctions, and then proceed to leave NPT (sometime in 2014).

    By the way, there will be new US sanctions against Iran before this year is out.

    I think in the weeks, months, and years to come we will come to appreciate the disaster that happened in Geneva for P5+1 and Axis Powers.

  345. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    nico-jan,

    “From the start Iran’s revolutiln was about being treated as equal and invited to the powers table.

    That is what it is all about.
    Recognition of Iran as a power. And an independent one.”

    I think you fundamentally misunderstand what the revolution was about. Maybe for Rafsanjani and entourage it was about being “invited to the table”. Not so for Imam, SL or those normal people who made the revolution and fought the war.

  346. nico says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 10, 2013 at 11:56 am

    My opinion is that the Syrian crisis was the end of the US unilateral moment in the ME with unchecked military intervention.
    The west is finacialliy broken and Russia as well as China are now too powerfull to be discraded outright.

    That being said then the conclusion is that the dust generated with the historical sequence of the last 20 years is settling down.

    The power configuration as it obtains today in the ME is the result of those 20 years of wars and conspiracy in the first hand and more than 30 years of the resistance led by Iran in the other hand

    Is anyone in his right mind believe that the US will launch another 20 years military campaign in the region to change a poser they were totally unable to manage at the peak of their power ?

    Now the dust is settling down.

    It is time to recognize the strategic winners and the losers.

    That is life.

    Now the US could just continue to bleed money and provide indefinite military commitment.
    They may also keep their current strategic relation with toxic sheikdoms and the apartheid state.
    They may keep as well their containment strategy which is doomed to fail while the US global power is wanning and the real financial crisis has not hit yet and is at the corner
    But they can change shit about the strategic reality of the region.

    That is where they need to recognize Iran as a power and invite them at the table of powers.

  347. nico says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 10, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    “Maybe for Rafsanjani and entourage it was about being “invited to the table. Not so for Imam, SL or those normal people who made the revolution and fought the war.”

    Maybe.
    But at the end of the day this one and the same.
    For the true aims of Iran’s revolution father to become reality, whatever those aims are or were, my opinion is that being invited at the table is mandatory
    Either one likes it or not.

  348. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    nico-jan,

    I agree, but you underestimate the stupidity, venality and spitefulness of US/western elites.

    Who says they will do what’s in their nation’s best interest?

    American elites are in a death embrace with the Zionists and ale Saud and will remain so until “the American people” start hanging them up by the lamp-posts.

    But as we know, the “fat and bloated” American people are not going to do that, right?

    The only ones in the US with balls to do so are the “rednecks”, and they have been marginalized and turned into an object of ridicule and caricature in the US over the last 50 years by “civilized” urban liberals.

    It is what it is.

  349. nico says:

    Anyway.
    Iran being dealt with politely by the UNSC powers + Germany in Geneva talks is the proof that Iran is already a power.
    A deal will prove that Iran is invited at the table of powers.
    No deal will prove that the US is impotent as they cannot stop Iran to go nuclear. As they are totally unable to go to war that would be a total humiliation.
    As Zarif stated few days ago. No deal today will be be a less interesting (for the US) deal in 2 years time.

    The game is over and anyone serious knows this.

  350. A-B says:

    On this forum (on February 24) I wrote that the gang of P5+1 had just ‘upgraded’ its exhortation to Iran from ‘betamarg’ (get your ass down) to ‘beshin’ (sit) at the negotiation table. The immoral gang had/has just changed in tone and not in substance, as there was never any nuclear ‘issue’ to begin with. Then I wrote: “It’s so disgusting how the ‘modern’ West behaves worse than the tyrants of antiquity; the kind that would have one subject beheaded and another sat free, to prove they are master of death and life.” [Correction: master of death and non-death, NOT Life!]

    Implementing the tyrant-analogy to the US/EU’s seeking approval of ‘Israel’, I refer to (the LEGEND of) the Roman emperor Caligula who wanted to appoint his horse, Incitatus, to Consul. To me, it is beyond any doubt that the emperor did this (if at all) to mock and humiliate the [corrupt] System. Or do you really think that is was a horse that held the emperor’s reins?

    HOW-EVER, the ‘International Community’ APPEARS to be on the leash of Western One-Trick-Pony (pun IS intended)!! The trick of this pony is to make history repeat itself. Not two leaves of a tree are identical and then you would believe that the clock-work repetition of events and history is not fabricated? So are we to believe after what happened in Libya (cf. Punic War) that the insanity in Syria is a result of natural uprising, even if we suppose Assad quelled demonstrations that at the beginning were ‘peaceful’?! No, the West INTENDED to do the same thing all over the MENACA, but it is Iran’s resistance that has facilitated an awakening among peoples of culture in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon which has FORCED the West to revise/adjust but still pursue its evil plans. So when the Western Liars and Murderers (these are empirically proven FACTS; thus they are NOT insults) confer with ‘Israel’ it is just to insult and humiliate Iran and the Law (NPT in particular, but human civilization in general); nothing more, nothing less.

    To put it differently: according to some ‘historians’, the ‘deranged’ Gaius (Caligula) INTENDED to let the Roman Empire be governed by the horse, Incitatus; but the ‘International Community’ IS (or, more correctly, is ALLOWED to be) ruled by a rabid, hysterical mini-mongrel, Israel. [Of course, Incitatus supposedly was a magnificent animal in real life, but calling Israel a mongrel is a metaphor; hence my statement that modern secular West behaves worse than tyrants of antiquity.] Anyway you turn or churn this, the West is deranged and should not lead ANYTHING; least of all a COMMUNITY!

  351. A-B says:

    *** Sorry for the offensive language ***

    BTW, ‘Mr.’ Dayius (AKA Fabius); the Persians since ancient times have disliked slimy amphibians. Well, this is according to father of Lie Herodotus, I’m sure a hero of yours, from the cradle of Lie & Deceit, Greece.

  352. nico says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 10, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    “nico-jan,I agree, but you underestimate the stupidity, venality and spitefulness of US/western elites.
    Who says they will do what’s in their nation’s best interest?”

    Sure.
    You have the realists, the ideologues and the sold out.
    Not sure the realist will prevail.
    Fabius and Hollande for sure are sold out.
    For Kerry and above all Obama, who knows ? The latter is the biggest liar in centuries. He certainly has no alliance and could just stab anybody in the back.

  353. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    The effort to promote peace and stability in the ME is not a game.

  354. fyi says:

    All:

    Intellectual History (In Persian)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/arts/2013/11/131109_l44_ashouri_anniversary_jami.shtml

    What is missing is the role of Christianity….

    All these Iranian thinkers are un-religious and cannot grasp the role of religious ideas in the genesis of the Western Civilization…

  355. James Canning says:

    B-I Basiji,

    By “rednecks” do you mean white Southern US Protestants, from lower social classes?

  356. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Russian initiatives on Syria are a very good thing for the US. And good for the ME, in my view.

  357. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    Your analysis of the posture of France omits the fact France has the second largest and richest community of Jews, after the US.

  358. Don Bacon says:

    fyi says:
    November 10, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    In less than 3 months we have the strategic clarity that US will attack Iran at any opportune time . . .Iranians should publicly make one last appeal for the removal of sanctions, and then proceed to leave NPT.

    Of course neither one of those will happen, nor should they.

    The US has been about to attack Iran for what, about six years now? It hasn’t happened and it won’t happen because the US only attacks weak third-world countries which have no significant defense or counter-attack potential. That’s not Iran.

    Iran is doing fine in the NPT, which gives Iran political cover and brings inspectors to nuclear sites who must be warned before any attack. Also the US would have to remove its ships and perhaps many personnel from the Gulf region because they are sitting ducks for Iran’s missiles.

  359. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    November 10, 2013 at 1:20 pm
    “Nico,The effort to promote peace and stability in the ME is not a game.”

    You.mean like the Great Game ????
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game

    Please feel free to retain such irrelevant squirts of yours.

  360. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Curious thing, that you are rather unconcerned about a trillion dollar loss to the Iranian economy, due to falling production of oil etc etc, but you are greatly concerned about economic beneifts of Arak. Which is a tiny factor, by comparison.

  361. Jay says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 10, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Destructive capitalism – originally described by Marx, and restated under a variety of names – is more alive today than ever!

  362. James Canning says:

    Kathleen,

    I doubt Iran will leave the NPT. FYI has advocated many times that Iran do so, and bring disaster upon itself.

  363. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I assume you are aware the ruler of Oman does visit Tehran in effort to help resolve disputes in the PG.

  364. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    You appear to argue that those businessmen etc etc who made deals in Libya or with Gaddafi outside Libya, after sanctions were dropped, did so with a view toward seeking Gaddafi’s overthrow. This is simply dead wrong. And preposterous.

  365. James Canning says:

    If I recall correctly, the Financial Times reported the other day that Dubai has more than 50,000 millionaires. (In USD, excluding principal residence)

  366. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Some British leaders considered returning to Turkey some of the former portions of the Ottoman Empire that had been taken after the First World war.

    What do you think should have been done?

    Jews were not promised their own state, in Palestine, as result of Versailles or San Remo, or Balfour’s letter to Lord Rothschild.

  367. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    English lawyers and accountants so well in a number of PG countries, that formerly were associated with the British Empire. You apparently regard this fact as their being scr*wed in the backside. Curious thought process, on your part.

  368. James Canning says:

    Bussed_In Basiji,

    You appear to argue that those who make false statements on this site, historically, about British history, should not be rebutted with the truth. Correct? Hilarious?

  369. Karl.. says:

    James

    Who said anything about Oman? Saudiarabia, Bahrain, Yemen, UAE are the ones.

  370. fyi says:

    James Canning says:
    November 10, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Arak is an investment in Iranian development in very many areas of industrial endeavor.

    It is a precursor for much much more to come for Iranian indigenous industrial development.

    The losses that you refer to are paper losses; income not realized today – which would be realized later as oil becomes more scarce.

    Think of that trillion dollars as forced-savings which otherwise would have gone into the bottomless pit of a lazy population’s consumption habits.

    I am satisfied with the current state of the war against Iran – Iranians had needed a kick in the ass to be awakened from their slumber and Axis Powers, Russia, China, and India have amply supplied that.

  371. fyi says:

    Don Bacon says:
    November 10, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Americans were always careful to maintain strategic ambiguity in regards to their real intentions towards Iran.

    The events subsequent to 08/21/2013 revealed their true intentions – tactical deals as way stations to regime destruction in Iran.

    Iran is not “doing well inside NPT”.

    Arak is delayed because Iranians cannot get industrial parts – which under NPT they should have been able to obtain – and have had to build them themselves.

    Iranians are being forced to change in a very painful manner since the war against them had aimed to disrupt importation of food, medicine, metals, industrial parts, chemicals etc. into Iran.

    The aim was nothing less than the destruction of the Iranian state – like the Ba’ath in Iraq.

    US, EU, and Russia thought Iran was a scrawny chicken ready for them to wring its neck.

    Some chicken!

    Some neck!

  372. Don Bacon says:

    fyi says:
    November 10, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Iran is not “doing well inside NPT”.

    Sure they are. Under sanctions, Iran has increased its uranium enrichment, going from a hundred centrifuges to 18,000, gone underground at Fordo, and has totally stymied the US, which wants regime change, even as US warships patrol off Iran’s shores.

    While Iran’s economy has suffered, since sanctions affect both buyers and sellers, and since much of Iran’s non-oil trade was with Europe, Europe has suffered more. Meanwhile the price of crude is still over a hundred dollars a barrel, and China has increased its oil imports. Getting off the oil drug is helping Iran become stronger in the long run.

    Currently under better leadership, Iran is playing the West like a fiddle in Geneva. Taking a cue from Assad in Syria, Iran has worked the diplomatic angle and is now more than an equal to the EU. –We expect agreement this week! No, no agreement after all, not because of Iran, but due to France!

    Iran has a new and better relationship with Turkey, and has contributed to the US-Saudi split which is a good thing. France is now the lover of all things Saudi so it torpedoed the Geneva talks, for now. The US must talk tough to France as it has done to Israel — another victim of Iran’s superior diplomacy.

    Everything’s good.
    Don’t worry, be happy.

  373. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 10, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    He is clutching at straws: Using the IAEA inspectors as “early warning system”! He thinks, Iranians are stupid. Inspectors visit Iran’s sites once every two or three months (the rest of monitoring is done 24/7 by encrypted audio/video link to spy cameras places all over Iran’s installations). Additionally, if it to be, they will kill a few inspectors if necessary. No problem in that. Not that they have not done already. They sucked all the blood from Dr Kelly. Another fine example is that of late Mr. Tim Hampton a nuclear weapons expert official of United Nations in charge of Iran’s nuclear file who was thrown off the UN building to his death (a scene right out of a Hollywood gangster movie). Some say it was from 17th floor. It could as well have been from the roof.

  374. Smith says:

    When Iran becomes nuclear armed, all the worries will come to end. The white man will never be able to even dream about attacking Iran ever again. That is why you see the white man going crazy at the notion of Iran being nuclear armed. Because they know they will not be able to rape Iran. It is natural for them being against Iran’s nuclearization. And they will make excuse after excuse of why NPT is good for Iran and why Iran should not have nuclear weapons but the white should have them and even use them on Iran. This is their hypocrisy that they think Iranians are stupid and blind to see.

  375. fyi says:

    All:

    What could have been and will not be:

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/AsiaIns

  376. A concerned world citizen says:

    Funny how right after the talks failed, Israel-firster, US negotiator Wendy I-hate- Persians Sherman’s just gone to Tel Aviv to brief his real boss – and I’m not talking Obama.

    Is this how low the US has become? Seriously, heads must role in the power corridors of America. You know there’s something wrong when the most “powerful” nation on the planet has to consult with a tiny patch of stolen land the size of New Jersey before they can make a decision…Pathetic!!!!

    I really think Iran’s wasting their time with these negotiations. Zarif is a bit too naive if he thinks his fluent English will win over the P5 + 1. Iran MUST start thinking about exiting the NPT and preparing for the impending war.

    It’s clear the Zionists’ stooges in Europe and America were expecting a total/unconditional surrender from Iran with these negotiations. Failing to achieve that, they torpedoed it. Just watch, they’ll blame Iran for the failure of the talks and more sanctions will follow.

    What comes next is scary..God help us!!!

  377. Don Bacon says:

    A concerned world citizen says:
    November 10, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    I really think Iran’s wasting their time with these negotiations.

    It’s important to understand that these affairs are won and lost in the minds of people around the world by their perception of who wins and who loses. Iran of the non-aligned nations has controlled the process in Geneva, has not given up anything, and has prevailed against the West which has been shown to be fragmented, rudderless and apparently victimized by France. Sherman’s going to Tel Aviv is another point in Iran’s favor — these repeated sojurns by Kerry and firends to Israel only worsen their standing in the Middle East. They don’t understand that, but we should.

  378. Karl.. says:

    No Iran arent wasting its time on p5+1. Israel wants the talk to fail, but Iran wont give them that. Chances are of course that P5+1 will start blaming Iran for any failure, but this is just to ignore for Iran and move on with more talks.

  379. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 10, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    What is preposterous is your interpretation of plain statements in a manner that borders on delusional psychosis!

    How did you come up with your interpretation?! I thought the English could read!!

  380. A concerned world citizen says:

    Don Bacon says:
    November 10, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    It’s important to understand that these affairs are won and lost in the minds of people around the world by their perception of who wins and who loses.

    I understand what you mean, bro..But not all is what it seems. Trust me, when the bombs start flying, world “public opinion” (whatever that means), don’t count for squat, nada, ziltch, zero!!!

    If it did, Iraq wouldn’t have been in the state it is today and Libya also. In fact, the world looked on while Iraqis were being butchered with all kinds of American weapons. Most of the world cheered when NATO was decimating Libya for no reason other that Qaddafi “must go”.

    I really hope Iranian strategist have a better policy in place other than relying on world “public opinion”. For when it comes to that, Iran cannot control the narrative. The mass media in the West is so powerful that nothing Iran throws at it will stick.When the bombs start flying, they can simply remove all Iranian channels from their satellite platforms – they’re already doing that with Presstv etc etc. Did you see how the much distinguished/peaceful/respectful BBC suddenly became the main voice of the Syrian opposition(read Al-Qaeda), calling for NATO to bomb the crap out of Syrian to bring them democracy??? Many in the West fell for it.

    I spoke to people who didn’t even know who Assad was two weeks ago and certainly couldn’t point him in a picture if you showed them, suddenly calling for his head. Yeah, it’s how simple world “public opinion” can be manipulated.

  381. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Someone has to remind James that Iran continues to reduce its rate of poverty despite the heavy burden of sanctions and economic pressure. His concerns for Iran’s lost opportunity should be focused on the UK!

    “The UK has now one of the highest rates of low pay in the developed world. The national minimum wage is now worth £1,000 less in real terms than it was in 2008. Today 4.8 million workers earn less than the living wage. Too often the working poor are the forgotten people of Britain.”

    The UK will soon be a third world country for most of her citizens.

  382. fyi says:

    Jay says:
    November 10, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Indeed.

    UK could have signed a separate peace with the NAZI Germany and ended the war in 1942.

    It was not to be, the English people had decided on war and would not have accepted even generous German terms for peace.

    And so has Iran.

    I think, per your point about poverty in UK (and US), these countries as well as others in EU cannot be great military powers, great economic powers, and, to at the same time protect their own populations against the ravages of the global market.

    In America, a case with which I a very familiar, they sold their best jobs to China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, and Malaysia over 2 generations to pay for their Empire.

    When their finances was shredded in 2011, Americans were left with poverty for tens of millions of people as their permanent state.

    I think their estimation is that for war with Iran, they would be using air and sea weapons platforms which are already paid for (sunk-costs) and thus it would be cost-free.

    They are thoroughly mad – the Mad King has more common interests with Iran, his avowed enemy – than most of his Barons.

    That is why he is Mad as a hatter.

  383. Karl.. says:

    A concerned world citizen

    “I spoke to people who didn’t even know who Assad was two weeks ago and certainly couldn’t point him in a picture if you showed them, suddenly calling for his head. Yeah, it’s how simple world “public opinion” can be manipulated.”

    Its sad. Sometimes I see comments on articles that are quite good but sometimes I see so much ignorance that depress me. Scary to realize who few really knows what going on regarding these issues.
    I recomend people here comment on news articles etc to get the facts correct.

  384. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 10, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    Karl.. says:
    November 10, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    There is a deep, generalized, multi-dimensional and permanent hate for Iran and Iranians among these nations.

    This super-hate encompasses Iran’s religion, geography, genealogy, race, culture, history, language etc etc.

    It predates IRI, Pahlavi, Qajar and goes as far back as you like.

    When in a hateful/racist frenzy, even rational common interests can not result in proper decision making processes.

    US has decided to destroy/dismember Iran, if possible kill a major segment of Iranian society and render the rest maimed.

    The Shias all over the world, whether Iranian or not/Practicing or not, should shudder at this coming war since they might lose their last and only protector and voice in the world. Upon Iranian state failure, they will be massacred left and right. Specially in “Islamic” lands.

  385. Don Bacon says:

    A concerned world citizen says:
    November 10, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    when the bombs start flying,

    First, the chance that bombs may start flying is tiny. Iran has a formidable military capability, with various ways of employing missiles, mines, etc. The US would have too remove its ships from the Gulf, recall any inspectors, etc so Iran would have plenty of notice.

    The US characteristically would not initiate any military action that might result in US casualties. Iran has the capability to sink ships, which is even worse.

    Finally, I believe that Iranians would rater die free than kowtow to a western power. In other words they are not different from other people in the world in that respect. So there is really no choice for them, and giving in is not an option.

    Iran cannot control the narrative.

    Iran is controlling the narrative. Every poll in the Middle East illustrates that people fear the US and Israel who have nukes, and not Iran which doesn’t. Iran is supported by the Non-Aligned movement, the SCO and most nations in Asia, including most of its neighbors. Iran was the de facto winner of the long US-Iraq conflict. Turkey is becoming friendlier to Iran, and there is Russia. President Assad seems to be prevailing, which means the Iran-Hezbollah alliance is still secure against Israel.

    Iran, more than any other nation, has caused the strongest nation the world has ever seen to waste time, people and treasure enhancing its (Iran’s) standing in the world. THAT’s controlling the narrative, big-time.

  386. Karl.. says:

    I believe Chutzpah is word for this behavior by Israel and its lobby.

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/ambassador-power-praises-adl-abe-foxman-savages-john-kerry

    US need to stop getting humiliated by this regime.

  387. Smith says:

    Another whore dispatched to Iran by mad king tells Iran to accept additional protocol of NPT and sign CTBT as if the humiliation of NPT was not already enough: http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/19770038/japan-urges-iran-to-take-further-steps-on-nuclear-issue/

  388. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 10, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    I agree with you that destructive capitalism (as Fiorangela put it) seems to be the modus operandi of the mad king. Of course, it is worth noting that this madness is not because of any rational analysis – it is because rational analysts were “filtered” out of the system to make room for the ill-intellect of the likes that are running the governments of the West.

  389. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    ICBM Japan? Really? Mr obama told you to say that?

  390. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 10, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    What ICBM? What Obama?

  391. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says: November 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    A two-fer–

    1. Some British leaders considered returning to Turkey some of the former portions of the Ottoman Empire that had been taken after the First World war.
    What do you think should have been done?

    2. Jews were not promised their own state, in Palestine, as result of Versailles or San Remo, or Balfour’s letter to Lord Rothschild.

    1. Was Turkey a British possession such that it had the authority/right/sovereignty to control its fate?

    2. ditto Palestine.

  392. Fiorangela says:

    fyi, yes, the Atlantic Council conference sounded very enthusiastic, very upbeat. Even the guy with the white hair whose name I can’t recall had mostly good things to say about Iran, and when he felt compelled to mention Iran’s sins, he did so with the greatest of tact and delicacy — “Occasionally Iran feels the need to send a message to the US by dispatching parties to attack an area, which we understand, but people die …”

    And either the colder weather has affected my sniffer or the Parfum de Orientalism had not been atomized at the conference; I did not detect it.

    But as noted above, (Fiorangela says: November 10, 2013 at 11:48 am ) USAID and Army Corps of Engineers have studied the water situation and drafted some plans for resolution, including locating loans. Were I Iran, I would examine the tongue, teeth and throat of that gift horse all the way down to its hooves.

  393. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    I meant CTBT, something obama surely told japan to pressure Iran on.
    Why is Japan FM in Iran anyway?

  394. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 10, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    He is on the mission from the mad king. A whore does not have it in itself to do something without permission of the master. I would not be surprised if the main purpose of his visit was to introduce the issue of CTBT to main issues in near future.

    Expect the demand for CTBT to be raised more and more now. It is another shameful colonial “treaty” designed to shame countries like Iran. And unlike NPT which recognizes the member state’s sovereign right to renounce it, CTBT is forever. Once singed, a slave forever.

    CTBT was designed so that even if a nation leaves NPT or builds secretly nuclear weapons, it would not be able to test those and announce it nuclear status to the world. Thus rendering its nuclear arsenal devoid of any deterrence value which is the main purpose of a nuclear arsenal. A secondary purpose of it was so that new nuclear armed state never reach the sophistication in nuclear weapon design the white man has reached by banning the tests (most of the nuclear weapon tests have been done by white man).

    Now, they want Iran to sign it. It is another pressure point, upon which they can build another regime of sanctions, enmity, war threats and humiliation for Iranian nation.

    This thing has no end until Iran becomes a nuclear weapon state.

  395. Fiorangela says:

    continued — The Atlantic Council plans for water should take into consideration this argument and analysis Achieving Groundwater Sustainability in Iran Through Qanat Rejuvenation by Mehrdad Rahnemei, Fardin Boustani, and Sayyed Ahang Kowsar.

    One of their arguments AGAINST the construction of dams and reservoirs was that Iran is earthquake-prone; a shift in the tectonic plates could cause a cataclysmic rush of water and loss of life. The hydrologists also studied evaporation and concluded that water loss through evaporation from a reservoir would be significant.

    The woman who spoke about her work in Afghanistan, wading through canals and rivers and assessing flow rates, etc., was very enthusiastic and proud of her contribution to the task.

    But the Iranian people know better how their nation works.

    What Atlantic Council proposes is the equivalent of an arsonist burning down your home, then presenting you plans to rebuild it and offering you favorable interest rates on the mortgage loan he will extend. If you do not repay the loan, the house becomes his.

    The Atlantic Council is suffering a serious bout of Marshall Plan-itis: Americans still think themselves heroic for having “assisted” Germany to rebuild. But not one American in 10,000 is aware that the US Air Force bombed the hell out of 130 German cities, levelling them and then bombing them again for good measure, and incinerating 600,000 German civilians in the process.

    If Americans want to think themselves noble, they will stop committing crimes against the Iranian people, and mind their own damn business and let Iran build its country in their own way.

  396. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 10, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Qanat still have a role to play. But Iran can not depend on them for its entire needs.

    Qanat is basically an efficient way of managing underground water resources.

    Dams are for surface water management. It is like comparing apple to oranges. Maybe even abit more off than that too.

    Iran needs to build as many dams as it can. There is no other option.

    Earthquakes happen every where. Good engineering can be depended upon to take care of that.

    Dams also make cheap electricity (not as cheap as nuclear though). Qanats do not.

    US is trying its best to waste the water inside Afghanistan as much as it can so that it does not reach Iranian province of Sistan va Baluchistan. This is being done to make sure all agriculture dies in that province and destabilize it politically (most of population there was/is depended on agriculture). US intentions are malign. No matter how attractive they package it. As fyi had previously said, they had built a dam in Afghanistan even in 1950’s in order to damage Iran. It is part of the same plan which is continuing till today.

    Of course “Green” “peace” is no where to be seen.

    Iran does not need loans/investments/funds etc etc. These are all propaganda. Iran is a very rich country. Money in its strictest sense is accumulated energy. Which Iran has plenty. US is broke. UK is broke. EU is broke. So it is not about funding. It is about drying up Iran so that Iran can be destabilized through food scarcity.

    Iran has to depend on itself for its problems.

  397. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Guardian editors call you/us a “hawk”: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/10/geneva-talks-mountain-climb-editorial

    Thank God for not being labelled a chicken.

  398. Smith says:

    fyi,

    How long before you think Shariatmadari starts writing such articles again: http://goo.gl/K0h7eZ

  399. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    You are aware, I assume, of several treaties that reflect much of what took place after the First World War.

    You appear to argue that if a country is conquered during a war, the winning party or party should just withdraw all troops and say that is the end of the matter?

    Ottoman Empire f*cked up badly, to be crude about it. Very very foolish surprise attack on Russia, at end of 1914.

  400. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Is Britain intentionally lost a trillion dollars, in the way Iran has done? Of course not.

  401. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Once again: you are simply dead wrong, to think businessmen making huge deals with Gaddafi’s Libya, wanted Gaddafi overthrown. Preposterous. Ludicrous. Absurd.

    Give me one example, to support your claim.

  402. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Personally, I tend to regret the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and I would rather it had stayed out of the war in 1914-18. But do you think the Turks could have kept Syria, Mesopotamia, and the Hejaz?

  403. James Canning says:

    Concerned,

    A number of very rich Americans in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc., in effect force Wendy Sherman to go to Israel.

  404. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Lost economic opportunities due to shortage of funds, are losses. A billion dollars in income five years ago is worth far more than a billion dollars in income five years from now. (Granted, this ignores movements in oil price, which can of course go either way.)

  405. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    The number of Saudi leaders who favored trying to improve relations with Iran, appears to have dropped considerably after Iran announced intention to treble production of 20% U.

  406. Rehmat says:

    French Zionist Jewish foreign minister Laurent Fabius caused a snag at the recent P+1 and Iran three-day talks in Geneva. Fabius, did what John Kerry refused to do for Netanyahu. He demanded that Iran must suspend the Arak heavy water reactor.

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/11/11/french-jew-wrecks-p51iran-deal-for-israel/

  407. Smith says:

    Meanwhile in Libya the oil rich eastern provinces have declared to be the new country of Cyrenaica, all with its own flag and prime minister: http://news.antiwar.com/2013/11/03/east-libya-declares-autonomy-from-tripoli/

    Iran should take serious note. UK still dreams of making 13 fiefdoms out of Iran.

    This is what happens when you give up your nuclear program. As Qaddafi had done so, proudly.

  408. Smith says:

    Also in Afghanistan, it is not only Iran that is suffering: http://dawn.com/news/673055/sharing-water-resources-with-afghanistan

    Let’s not forget that Taliban had used an American made dam to cut off Iran’s water supply to Sistan for some five years with disastrous economic and environmental impacts which continue today eg. sand storms/destruction of Hamoun.

    No foreign troops should be allowed to stay in Afghanistan ever. They will only try to create instability and war. The same way British have done over the past 5 centuries.

  409. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 10, 2013 at 7:36 pm
    “Jay,

    Is Britain intentionally lost a trillion dollars, in the way Iran has done? Of course not.”

    The answer is a resounding yes! While a narrow sector of Brits got very rich Britain lost trillions.

  410. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 10, 2013 at 7:38 pm
    “Jay,

    Once again: you are simply dead wrong, to think businessmen making huge deals with Gaddafi’s Libya, wanted Gaddafi overthrown. Preposterous. Ludicrous. Absurd.

    Give me one example, to support your claim.”

    James,

    I am not responsible for other peoples “voices in their head”!

    Your raised this absurdity and now you are demanding that others answer for it!!

    Now, that is absurd!!!

  411. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 10, 2013 at 7:52 pm
    “Karl..,

    The number of Saudi leaders who favored trying to improve relations with Iran, appears to have dropped considerably after Iran announced intention to treble production of 20% U.”

    James,

    did you take a before and after poll? What was the sampling strategy? How many samples? What were the questions? Please let us know.

  412. Smith says:

    As earlier predicted, US now is saying that no body should blame its whore for the failure of the “talks”. It is rather the fault of Iran: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/world/middleeast/kerry-no-deal-in-hand-defends-negotiating-strategy-on-iran.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

    In other news, Zarif tells BBC that the biggest security threat in the world is the rift between Shia and Sunnis. He should have actually said, Iran and Sunnis. Since there are dozens of major Sunni countries but only one major Shia state.

    Shias all over the world should start worrying about their probably coming genocide. US is firmly on the side of wahabis.

  413. A concerned world citizen says:

    As predicted, it didn’t take long for them to start their shenenigans against Iran..

    Iran’s minister for trade and mining assassinated in Tehran. (http://presstv.com/detail/2013/11/10/334060/iranian-official-murdered-in-tehran/)

    Of course Iranian officials will like to bury their heads in the sand and pretend this is not related to the nuclear “tensions”. Last week a top judge was also killed in similar fashion. They’re going for the low hanging fruits to “send a message”.

    War is the only option left for the powers that be and they’re going to intensify their shadows war against Iran until the whole thing blows into an open war.

    How I miss Muhmoud jan already. He never beat about the bush with fancy talks and peace fantasies like Ruhani – the moderate!!!

  414. Photi says:

    Don Bacon says:
    November 10, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    Well said Don, i think you are absolutely correct that Iran is controlling the narrative. The Americans have been scrambling since the Arab spring, and the Israeli leader, especially in recent days, but visibly over the last couple of years has become increasingly unstatesmanlike, unhinged. Were Netanyahu more confident about his position, his language would be more relaxed and diplomatic. He sought to “move America” and utterly failed. America’s non-intervention in Syria proved all that, proved that America will not go to war for Israel, yet again, and proved that Netanyahu will not get his Iran war, not after the American public’s outcry over Syria (which was the first leg of an iran war, ala RS Hack).

    What started out as a ruse to keep the occupation alive and a power struggle between Israel and Iran has become an open power struggle between the US and Israel. An unforeseen loss no doubt for Mr. Netanyahu and the radicals who listen to him, Israle and its lobby are more effective in the dark, as they say. The question now is whether Netanyahu’s ego will allow him to a take a loss, though it does not appear so. Only if he can understand his loss as a win for Israel. I think it is more likely though he will do something foolish to ignite the region so he can drag the US into war against Iran. Does he take that gamble, does he risk that much in the name of Israel? Does he do it with Syria and Hezbollah, Hamas, still able to put up a defense?

  415. Karl.. says:

    James
    November 10, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Another lie by you, and once again we see how you use saudi propaganda.
    Some polls from the region actually show SUPPORT for a nuclear WEAPON Iran.

  416. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    James,

    Bandar getting billions of pounds of bribes from BAE and when the “independent” judiciary- you know “rule of law” and all that good stuff the UK is supposedly based on- decides to start an investigation- the PM orders it shut down.

    That’s “getting it up the bum from a bunch of bedouins for money”.

  417. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Don, Photi, BibiJon, nico,

    The real issue is why the majority of Americans keep voting for these bums and the majority of Israelis keep voting for nutcases- Sharon, Bibi, whatever.

    I don’t think “the leaders” are the primary problem. They- like all good sociopaths- take advantage of circumstances to enhance their social standing, power, copulation statistics and wealth.

    Maybe its actually that the American and Israeli “people” suck!

    Eureka!

    For the sake of America’s honor and in this holy month, I pray that Allah (swt) will inspire the rednecks to start stringing up some politicians from lamp-posts, trees, traffic lights etc. and to pull them along the road tied behind tractors.

    Yeeee-haa!

    Elahi Ameen…

  418. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “…behind tractors” …and Ford pickup trucks with gun racks and confederate flags (last item is “mustahab” not “wajib”).

  419. Karl.. says:

    PREssTv report: IAEA and Iran agree to a roadmap. Maybe this will push p501 to accept a deal.

  420. M.Ali says:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57611679/lawmakers-push-new-sanctions-to-aid-iran-nuclear-talks/

    “Lawmakers push new sanctions to aid Iran nuclear talks”

    “There is no right under international law for domestic enrichment,” Menendez explained. “There is a right to a peaceful, civilian nuclear program, undoubtedly. But our neighbors here in the United States, Canada and Mexico, they have nuclear programs, but they don’t enrich domestically. So this suggestion that there is this right to enrichment domestically is problematic.””

  421. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Glad to see the rot reaching senior officer level…

    Petraeus is a boy scout compared to this…

    Two Navy admirals suspended as military cracks down on misconduct

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/10/two-navy-admirals-suspended-as-military-cracks-dow/?page=all#pagebreak

    “The Navy is investigating Vice Adm. Ted Branch, director of naval intelligence, and Rear Adm. Bruce Loveless, director of intelligence operations, on accusations of “illegal and improper relations” with a defense contractor who scammed the Navy of millions of dollars and bribed naval officials with hookers and gifts over several years.”

    Yeee-haa!

  422. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Money quote (pun intended):

    “You see this in business when things are really booming,” he said. “When there’s a lot of money flowing through, it’s hard to keep track of it all, and that’s when people typically engage in fraud. They know the level that will be checked, and they do things just below that level.”

    Mr. Cook said the problem could worsen as the military curtails training because of budget cuts.

    A course that includes ethics training for new one-star generals has been canceled or curtailed twice this year because of budget cuts and the partial government shutdown in October. The Joint Chiefs’ capstone course, which requires senior officers from across the country to spend five consecutive weeks training together, is mandated by the 1986 Goldwater-Nichols Act, but the shutdown forced all of those who were traveling to return home.

  423. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Bubba…get the rope!

  424. Karl.. says:

    M ali

    Most stupid argument ever by aipac paid Menendez. So what if Canada and Mexico dont enrich? What does that have to do with 1. Iran? 2. International law giving states right to enrich?

  425. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    This one’s just funny…

    Battle of the Bulge: Army soldiers using liposuction to meet fitness standards

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/28/troops-get-liposuction-pass-fat-test/

  426. Don Bacon says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 11, 2013 at 5:36 am

    The real issue is why the majority of Americans keep voting for these bums

    No, that would only be an issue if voters had a real choice based on correct information. But the truth is that they have neither.

    The American people are constantly fed lies about the “Iran threat” which is also the litany of all major politicians. Obama, the ‘hope and change’ candidate, spoke repeatedly about this in 2008.

    June 4, 2008:
    Democratic presumptive presidential nominee Barack Obama vowed Wednesday he would work to “eliminate” the threat posed by Iran to security in the Middle East and around the globe. “There’s no greater threat to Israel or to the peace and stability of the region than Iran,” he told the powerful pro-Israel lobby, the American Israel Public Affairs Council (AIPAC).

    Then in the presidential election 38% of the electorate didn’t vote. They apparently believed that neither candidate (in the restrictive US two-party system) represented their views.

    So we can’t blame the victims for the crimes.

  427. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Continuing in the series on “getting it up the bum from bedouins for money”…

    Leave it to the token cockney to say it…

    Sir John Major attacks ‘truly shocking’ privilege of privately educated elite

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sir-john-major-attacks-truly-shocking-privilege-of-privately-educated-elite-8931667.html

    Quote:

    He added: “In every single sphere of British influence, the upper echelons of power in 2013 are held overwhelmingly by the privately educated or the affluent middle class. To me from my background, I find that truly shocking.”

  428. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Don,

    Like I said, can’t “blame” sociopaths for exploiting ignorance.

    At some point “remaining” ignorant becomes one’s own fault, especially today with so much info available for average person.

    We overthrew a 2,500 year monarchy armed to the teeth supported by the US and west with the tools of the late 1970s. Force, info, money much more a govt monopoly at that time than currently.

    Surely the “civilized”, “free”, “educated”, “technologically advanced”, “land of the free, home of he brave”, “proud” American people can do better. Or maybe not.

    Enough with the excuses. No “victims” here.

    Don…get the rope!

  429. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Did I mention how “polite” the Americans are? (According to some…hahaha)

  430. Fiorangela says:

    M.Ali says:
    November 11, 2013 at 7:27 am

    ““There is no right under international law for domestic enrichment,” Menendez explained. “There is a right to a peaceful, civilian nuclear program, undoubtedly. But our neighbors here in the United States, Canada and Mexico, they have nuclear programs, but they don’t enrich domestically. So this suggestion that there is this right to enrichment domestically is problematic.””

    Menendez graduated from a Jesuit college and from the school of law at Rutgers University. He practiced as a lawyer, but apparently has spent most of his career — which started at a very early age, 19, — in elected politics. But Menendez IS versed in the law and, as surely his Jesuit teachers would have instructed him, a person is held to the standard of the knowledge that he has. He is expected to be able to apply legal knowledge and analysis to the situation at hand.

    In an Oct. 3, 2013 hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee which Menendez chairs, Robert Menendez, Esq., said:

    “From my perspective, as long as Iran is actively pursuing its nuclear program, we must actively work to increase the pressure.”

    This statement radically reverses the guarantees of the NPT, the “grand bargain” that states like Iran — AND the United States — subscribed to. Attorney Menendez should understand this basic concept. That he does not understand the basic concepts of the treaty governing the situation impairs the security and well being of every citizen of the United States and brings unconscionable harm to the people of Iran and of that region.

    As an expert in international law and the law and interpretation of the NPT, Prof. Dan Joyner has provided a succinct overview of the Treaty and its application to the Iran case. (see Fiorangela says: November 7, 2013 at 5:32 pm). Mr. Menendez would do well to review a legal expert’s analysis of the NPT as applied to Iran.

    (It is worth noting that yellow-jacketed MEK activists, recently de-listed from the US terror watch list, were seated behind the witness chairs at the committee meeting.)

  431. Jay says:

    BBC (according to a Brit friend: British Blinkered Charlatans) is saying that Kerry is blaming Iran for backing out of the deal.

    I sincerely hope that the Iranian media drives the message home: “the only deal the West does want with Iran is Iran’s full capitulation”. The West is not a trustworthy partner and Iran must inoculate as many of Iran’s youth as possible against Western propagandists.

    In the long run, Iran will come out of this difficult period stronger. In the short run, Iranians have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, because attempting coexistence with madness puts one in grave danger!

  432. Jay says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 11, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Another clear illustration that one cannot attempt to reach accommodation with madness!

  433. Karl.. says:

    Jay

    Yep reading that BBC article now, blaming Iran, how surprising. No wonder US never use diplomacy, they stink on it. And guess what, Kerry blame it on Iran’s right to enrich. How crazy of Iran to say that!

  434. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    November 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Very many of the Americans who were fighting in Viet Nam, as well as those civilians working there in civil/political roles, believed themselves to be doing God’s work in improving the lot of Vietnamese people.

    I think that the fact that the United States, in spite of such dedicated people with high degree of morale and in spite of the enormous attendant financial commitments failed in her political and military programs there is a confirmation of the innate inability of the United State to transplant her system anywhere else.

    She failed with Cuba, with the Philippines, with Guatemala, with Iran, with South Korea, with Panama, with Iraq, and now with Afghanistan.

    Japan and Germany after World War II only serve to prove the point – they are the exceptions and not the norm.

    One could even make a point that the colonial share-cropper system in the South after Reconstruction was also a failure of the extension of the North’s free yeoman system to the South – reinforcing my argument.

    Truly, when one looks at cities such as Detroit, Camden, Oakland, Miami, St. Louis, Cleveland and lately Philadelphia, one is bound to conclude that the United States could benefit from a politic-military Surge in these areas.

    At the very least, it could make the path to and from schools as well as the schools themselves physically safe for these poor children.

  435. Fiorangela says:

    Netanyahu unhinged

    http www dot pmo dot gov dot il/English/MediaCenter/Speeches/Pages/speechfederations101113 dot aspx

    I did a word search for anything like “NPT” or “treaty” or “rule of law” in Bibi’s rant.

    They ain’t there.

    Israel under the zionists really do believe, as Gershon Gorenberg said in a talk I attended at a local synagogue a few years ago that “Israelis do not believe the rule of law applies to them,” and as Chas Freeman said in a speech in May 2011 —

    “As always in such mayhem, truth and the law have been the first to go missing. Israel regularly attributes to others the very things it itself is doing. It has become notorious for its refusal to accept objective scrutiny or criticism. It routinely rebuffs international investigators’ examination of allegations against it, even when mandated by the U.N. [United Nations] Security Council. Instead, it stages self-indulgent acts of self-investigation calculated to produce exculpatory propaganda. As a result, Israeli government spokesmen – who once were presumed to represent the intellectual integrity for which Jewish scholars have always been renowned – now have no credibility at all except among those committed to the Zionist cause. Meanwhile, regional and international respect for the rule of law, especially humanitarian law, has been greatly degraded. This is a special irony.

    Humanitarian law and the law of war are arguably the supreme moral artifacts of Atlantic civilization. Jewish lawyers made a disproportionate contribution to the crafting of both. The resulting legal principles were intended to deter the kinds of injuries and injustices that European Jews and other minorities had long suffered and to protect occupied populations from persecution by their occupiers. Both objectives are very relevant to contemporary Palestine. It is, however, hard to find any principle of due process, the several Geneva Conventions, or the Nuremberg trials that has not been systematically violated in the Holy Land. Examples of criminal conduct include mass murder, extra-judicial killing, torture, detention without charge, the denial of medical care, the annexation and colonization of occupied territory, the illegal expropriation of land, ethnic cleansing and the collective punishment of civilians, including the demolition of their homes, the systematic reduction of their infrastructure and the de-development and impoverishment of entire regions. These crimes have been linked to a concerted effort to rewrite international law to permit actions that it traditionally prohibited, in effect enshrining the principle that might makes right.

    As the former head of the Israeli Defense Forces’ (IDF) Legal Department has argued:

    “If you do something for long enough the world will accept it. The whole of international law is now based on the notion that an act that is forbidden today becomes permissible if executed by enough countries . . . . International law progresses through violations.”

    A colleague of his has extended this notion by pointing out that:

    “The more often Western states apply principles that originated in Israel to their own non-traditional conflicts in places like Afghanistan and Iraq, then the greater the chance these principles have of becoming a valuable part of international law.”

    These references to Iraq and Afghanistan underscore the extent to which the United States, once the principal champion of a rule-bound international order, has followed Israel in replacing legal principles with expediency as the central regulator of its interaction with foreign peoples. The expediently amoral doctrine of preemptive war is such an Israeli transplant in the American neo-conservative psyche. Neither it nor other deliberate assaults on the rule of law have been met with concerted resistance from Palestinians, Arabs, or anyone else, including the American Bar Association. [Mr. Menendez???]

  436. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    In Israel, on TV, John Kerry asked: “does Israel want a third intifada?” (FT report, Nov 9/10).

    Answer may well be “yes”.

  437. James Canning says:

    Leader in Financial Times Nov 9/10: “An Iran deal offers an alluring prize”.

    Quote: “Obama [can] bypass a UN Congress sometimes more alert to Israel’s concerns than US national interest.”

  438. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    It should be clear now, that P5+1 will accept Iranian enrichment to low levels. This to you is Iranian “capitulation”. Correct?

  439. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    A major “downside” to the elvation of John Kerry to State, was his replacement by Robert Menendez (at Foreign Relations Committee). Four years ago, Kerry noted that no deal was possible unless Iranian enrichment to low levels was accepted.

  440. Don Bacon says:

    Zarif is bringing out the big guns — tweets.

    https://twitter.com/JZarif/

  441. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    The British Government did not intend to cause the huge economic losses that flowed from flawed oversight of banking etc etc etc. But yes, some people gained fantastic sums, unfairly (or worse).

    Iran’s government was fully “eyes open” as to the gigantic costs to the economy of the nation, that could not possible be recovered.

  442. nico says:

    Some foreign policy specialists in France are saying that the detente between the US and Iran is a done deal and already agreed informaly.
    That the French position is coming from the frustration to be kicked out of Iran by US interests, from frustration concerning the Syrian file and also infighting and incompetence between Hollande and Fabius.

    Those specialists say that an agreement will be clinched during the next round. And that Arak will not be shut down.

    Wait and see…

  443. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Not all Saudi leaders are prepared to be open about what their concerns are, regarding Iran’s nuclear programme, possible intentions of seeking overthrow of Saudi monarchy, etc etc.

    A few are quite prepared to say openly what they think. You surely are familiar with these comments, to some degree.

  444. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Another obvious factor is that some Saudi leaders have ten times the global influence of other Saudi leaders. Perhaps even one hundred times, of more. But you of course would know this.

  445. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Are you talking about polls of ordinary people? Or a survey of the seriously powerful powerful people?

    Your concept of “lies” is rubbish.

  446. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    You implicitly argue, or try to suggest, that the Saudi leadership were not especially concerned about Iran’s announcement of intent to treble production of 20% U. And in that respect you are of course DEAD WRONG.

  447. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    You are of course quite right to cite one glaring example of Saudi political influence in Britain. Which might in turn suggest notions of overthrowing the Saudi monarchy might be unwise?

  448. James Canning says:

    B-I Basiji,

    Actually, you cite more than one example of very considerable political influence in Britain enjoyed and exercised by Saudi Arabia. Arising from arms deals.

  449. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Zarif surely was referring to problems in Iraq, arising from Sunni-Shia dispute. Saudis have very large concerns on this score.

  450. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Perhaps you are not aware of the very considerable business deals in the works, regarding Libya, in the years leadding up to rebellion in that country. Deals with European companies and individuals. The Europeans making these deals did not hope to see them wrecked, by overthrow of Gaddafi.

    Apparently you want to argue that making deals with Big Oil, in Iran, would invite subversion in Iraq? I am just curious.

  451. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Subversion in Iran. Big Oil is not especially happy with opportunities to be found in Iraq. (Apart from Iraqi Kurdistan)

  452. Don Bacon says:

    In an Iranian video simulation of a response to possible Israeli air strike, Iran used its Sijjil long range missile to hit critical targets in Tel Aviv.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68CsCjIJaeE#t=237

  453. Karl.. says:

    James

    Yes survey among population, not the dictators Cameron, Hague and apparently yourself support.

  454. Karl.. says:

    Zarif should watch it on twitter. Liars should be exposed, but this isnt the way to do it.

  455. nico says:

    Interesting article.
    I do not think the Israeli threat is credible.
    However it shows the zionists influence in France as well as the western will to clinch a deal.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-will-attack-if-you-sign-the-deal-french-mp-told-fabius/

    “A French member of parliament telephoned French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius in Geneva at the weekend to warn him that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would attack Iran’s nuclear facilities if the P5+1 nations did not stiffen their terms on a deal with Iran, Israel’s Channel 2 News reported Sunday.”

    “Habib, the deputy president of the Jewish umbrella organization in France, was elected to the National Assembly in Paris in June, to represent the district of southern Europe, which includes French nationals residing in Israel.”

    “The report, quoting sources in Jerusalem, said Netanyahu and ministers close to him were castigating the United States for its “radical eagerness” in seeking a deal, and saying that Washington appeared fearful of confrontation with Iran. “This is no way to run a negotiation,” the sources were quoted as saying. The Americans “are giving up all of their pressure points, and the Iranians recognize the Americans’ weakness.””

  456. nico says:

    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Major-differences-emerging-in-US-Israeli-tactics-on-Iran-331192
    Major differences emerging in US, Israeli tactics on Iran
    “PM says he will use 10-days before next round of nuke talks to lobby intensively for deal that will roll-back Iran nuclear program.”

  457. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    I do not think King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is a “dictator”. Emir of Qatar is not one either.

    Decisions in those countries are not made by the “people”, however. You surely know this.

  458. Karl.. says:

    James
    November 11, 2013 at 4:20

    As I just said, you are using saudi propaganda but I guess thats the result of your extreme british nationalism.

  459. James Canning says:

    Abe Foxman’s vicious attack on John Kerry should I think get more attention. “Kerry’s outrageous behavior [in] lectur[ing] Israel about the risks of peace and war.” As head of ADL, Foxman has the support of many rich and powerful American Jews, and other rich and powerful Americans (who need support from rich and powerful Jews). So Foxman feels free to do his best to subvert national security interests of the American people.

  460. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    If you think there are no Sunni-Shia problems in Iraq, you simply are not paying sufficient attention to events in that country. Or, is it your view the Saudis should allow Nouri al-Maliki to cheat the Sunnis out of fair share of oil revenue, power, etc etc?

  461. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    If you are trying to suggest the Saudis in fact did not react strongly to Iran’s announcement of intent to treble production of 20% enriched uranium, you are simply badly mistaken.

  462. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    November 11, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    It is more like that he does not understand that the context is one of a zero-sum game; for Iran to succeed, Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf Arabs as well as Turkey must lose.

    If and when the combined Cold War of Axis Powers, Russia, Persian Gulf Arabs, and Turkey against Iran is dismantled, the zero-sum game context could change.

    That is decades into the future.

  463. Karl.. says:

    James

    November 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    You are not only mistaken but a bad liar and dishonest. Take a pause from posting here please.

  464. Karl.. says:

    Here we go again. New threats by UK.

    http://inagist.com/all/399944835987030016/

    Its obvious west/israel wont accept a deal.

  465. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    November 11, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    No worries. Sanctions are actually good for Iranian economy. Iranians need this shock treatment to come out of their medieval economic and technological status.

    And this thing has no end. Until and unless Iran develops long range nuclear munitions. They are literally bulldozing Iranians to becoming a nuclear armed state. The alternative for Iranians is to die under the tracks of the bulldozer.

    Now it is clear to every one inside and outside of Iran that Iran has no other choice but to become a nuclear armed state. Iran is being forced to pick between these two choices: A)being nuclear armed and out of NPT or B)mass death.

    After Iran becomes nuclear armed and put its arsenal on 5 minute red alert pointed at the smallish islandish favorite whore of mad king, then rest assured that things are going to change fast. The mad king is going to shut up his whores and will fly personally to Tehran asking for forgiveness and consideration offering Iran a big chunk of world economy mostly by forcing his whores to work for Iran. As Nixon had done with China. We should not forget the fact that when Nixon begged to see Mao, China had already tested its nuclear weapons. This was the most important thing. If China was not nuclear armed, rest assured neither Nixon nor any US president after him would have flown to China. Without nuclear weapons white man does not consider a colored man a human being.

    Iran’s salvation from these humiliations is in being outside of NPT and being nuclear armed.

  466. Fiorangela says:

    Don Bacon says:
    November 11, 2013 at 8:45 am

    and

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 11, 2013 at 9:11 am

    re:

    “No, that would only be an issue if voters had a real choice based on correct information. But the truth is that they have neither.
    The American people are constantly fed lies about the “Iran threat” which is also the litany of all major politicians. Obama, the ‘hope and change’ candidate, spoke repeatedly about this in 2008.”

    I agree with Bussed-in Basiji; Americans have the power in their finger-tips, literally: they could disconnect the cable until corporate media starts provided fact-based information.

    Do you not think that is power that can change culture and government?

    Cable television is NOT an essential like housing, food, medical care. It can be ‘boycotted’ without harm (except to the many people who work in the industry, but them’s the breaks).

    Take a lesson from Juan Zarate and Stuart Levey: find ways we can “hurt” corporate liars, until they behave the way we want them to behave.

    All options on the table.

  467. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Wrong again. What a surprise. In fact, Saudis raised a great stink after Iranian announcement of intent to treble production of 20% enriched uranium.

    That blunder, by Iran, you try to dismiss as unimportant. Wrong.

  468. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The US would accept a much richer and stronger Iran, that clearly was not building nukes or trying to get close to ability to build nukes quickly. Saudis would learn to live with this, easily enough (in my view). No “loss” for Saudi Arabia, or Turkey.

  469. Don Bacon says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 11, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    I don’t know about you, but I generally accept people for what they are, mainly because I hope that they’ll accept me for what I am. And I certainly am not about to conclude, as you have, that 200 million people need to change when it’s obvious that there are other somewhat complex factors in play that influence how these people live their lives.

    I would never say: All Afghans need to _____, or all Persians need to ____. Never.

    In other words you are wrong.

  470. James Canning says:

    Gideon Rachman, writing in the Financial Times today (“France has played its cards right on Iran”):

    By playing ‘bad cop’ to the Obama administration’s good cop, the French have actually made it more likely that an eventual deal will achieve its goal of preventing an Iranian bomb.”

  471. James Canning says:

    At the Daily Telegraph (blogs), David Blair has interesting comments (“Why America and Iran need one another”). (telegraph.co.uk)

  472. Fiorangela says:

    Don Bacon says:
    November 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Don Bacon, I am wrong about WHAT?

    I am wrong that Americans have the ability to demand honest information from their media and government?? That was the point of my comment, perhaps I did not articulate it properly or clearly.

    Besides, the plaque on my kitchen wall says, “Rule #! Mom is Always Right, Rule # 2 If Mom is Wrong See Rule #1.”

    But seriously, your comment seems to suggest that Americans are powerless, that our only option is to accept the status quo.

    Or even worse.

    Consider this scenario: In response to bold declarations from a passionate zionist that

    “Netanyahu is desperate” and will do desperate things, like “attack Iran alone. World War III may start over it. …Obama should have kept the sanctions up.
    What should have been done was Obama should have cut a deal whereby the US participates in a joint military action against Iran in return for civil rights concessions. More permits, stop with demolitions.
    Israel will not concede Judea and Samaria. Israel will attack Iran.
    Obama’s actions were very unwise.
    What if Israel attacks Iran, and pulls it off without US help, like it did with the Osiris reactor in Iraq in 1981?
    What if Netanyahu tells Obama, we are going to strategically nuke Tehran, and if Russia gets upset, we will nuke Moscow?”</i?

    a committed United Statesian anti-zionist responded,

    That’s a freakin’ crime against humanity, even to threaten it!! You can’t do that!

    No, that’s not what the United Statesian antizionist said.

    Here’s what the United Statesian antizionist wrote:

    World War III would start if the US attacked iran and israel would have no problem with that.
    if israel is going to attack iran, let them do it alone and pay the consequences alone.

    I’m more interested in the US anti-zionist’s response than in the (outrageous) proposals of the flaming zionist.

    Because the USian reflects the blasé attitude that it’s not an American problem if its special-relationship-closest-ally BFF Israel commits a war crime of proportions not contemplated since Nagasaki. In fact, it would solve a problem for the USA: it would isolate Israel as a pariah state, it would get the zionist monkey off the American back.

    The US antizionist is willing to expend countless Iranian lives to save American bacon (no pun inten–, er well, maybe it was).

    That is the logical outcome of the US status quo /sedulous ape position.

    In another era, the phrase, “Let George do it” was popular. Now we say, “Let Rostam do it. Who’s got the remote?”

  473. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    November 11, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    “By playing ‘bad cop’ to the Obama administration’s good cop, the French have actually made it more likely that an eventual deal will achieve its goal of preventing an Iranian bomb.

    Only problem with that brilliant playground diplomatic gamesmanship is that IRAN DOES NOT WANT A BOMB!!!

    And the NPT is the mechanism that “prevents” signatory states from getting a bomb, NOT childish French games.

  474. Fiorangela says:

    NIAC: Six Reasons the Iran Deal Was Good for America

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/11/opinion/parsi-iran-deal/

  475. Richard Steven Hack says:

    Iran nuclear programme deal in danger of unravelling
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/10/iran-nuclear-talks-at-risk

    No, it was always intended to either unravel…or provide the excuse Netanyahu needs to attack Iran (once Syria and Hizballah in Lebanon are degraded – which is still in the cards.)

    This is how Obama intends to keep himself blameless once the US is “drawn kicking and screaming” (yeah, right) into a war with Iran. He can claim he had achieved a “diplomatic breakthrough” on Iran, but Israel (or France) screwed it up. Then he can grin in the catbird seat as his masters in the military-industrial complex clean up in a war.

    Is it a coincidence that the Pritzker brothers are on the cover of Bloomberg Magazine?

  476. Don Bacon says:

    It isn’t like Obama hasn’t done this before. “I tried, but they wouldn’t cooperate. I gave it my best shot, really I did.” At least Bush was a bad character, this man has NO character, good or bad.

  477. Fiorangela says:

    Last month Ilan Berman gave a talk about his research into Russian demographics. The summary is, Russia is losing population, it does not have a growth rate of reproduction, people prefer to emigrate, divorce is high, families falling apart. In addition, Muslims and the Chinese are moving into Russia.

    = = =
    It’s not hard to notice that the states that western states that the US targeted in its European wars of the 20th century — Germany, Russia, Italy — are faltering demographically. The states that were denied self determination post-WWI and WWII have at least sustainable and arguably growth rates of reproduction.

    Although Iran was a neutral in both of those wars, it suffered tremendous loss of life through famine, followed by another catastrophic loss of young life in the Iran-Iraq war. In the WWI famine, Mohammad Gholi claims that 40% of Iran’s population died, and that it took over 50 years to return to its 1914 level of population. All of these traumas in Iran, yet today, Iran has one of the youngest and also most vibrant and dynamic populations in the region and perhaps the world.

    This is not an accident, it is the result of policies adopted by the mad mullahs, those crazy twelfth-century theocratic nut-jobs. Nesta Ramazani, wife of University of Virginia’s Iran expert Ruhi Ramazani, spoke about Iran’s policies in support of women and families. Most pundits recite that “65% of Iran’s population is under age 35,” but I wonder if they think about how that came about, given the traumas Iran has suffered, and in comparison with other states that have undergone similar catastrophes but have not corrected themselves demographically.

    As Ilan Berman was discussing Russia’s pending demographic spiral, and then as he answered questions about the influence of the Russian Orthodox church, especially in Georgia, where the bishop blesses every third child, and population is thriving; and about Russia’s relations with its neighbors, especially Iran, the tale of the Sabine women intruded, and I imagined Russians and Iranians intermarrying and uniting to revitalize each the other’s culture. Berman’s analysis had a distinctly western bias, and the pathologies he listed as threats to Russian society seemed to me to include policies that are being promoted in American culture — abortion, LGBT lifestyles, use of psychotropics, and of course war — none of which tends to population growth. Fr. Paul Marx, the self-styled “grandfather” of the right to life movement in the Catholic church in the 1990s, started many of his stump speeches with the observation that in Europe, Muslims are reproducing at a much greater rate than the indigenous population; “theirs is the future,” he concluded. Iran 65% youth population is their future. US has retirees.

  478. nico says:

    Pretty complete article from Al Jazeera exploring all the reasons behind the Geneva talks failing.

    http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/blame-french-093713451.html

  479. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Don, Fio,

    Get the damn rope!

  480. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Meanwhile in the real world…

    1. Iran will not leave NPT, just signed a new agreement with IAEA.

    After years Iran has now- with recent events- clearly demonstrated that it is the one within “international law” and it is the US/Israel/France which is out.

    A huge, massive strategic, historic, political, diplomatic victory for Iran. Did I mention how huge a victory it is?

    Iran’s not gonna blow that anytime soon by leaving NPT.

    Contrary to what gooz-pich and closet-case think- international relations is not just “raw” power politics- although that is a obviously an important element. But it’s not the only important element. It’s OK, they are allowed to make amateur mistakes.

    After what happened in the last few months, everybody understands who the “rogue regimes” of global politics are, even if they are scared to say it to their faces.

    Game, Set, Match Iran.

    2. US/Israel/whoever will not attack Iran. The chances are below 1% (so that obsessive nit-pickers won’t say “you said NEVER”).

    Still waiting for the doom-gloom crew to give us some probabilities of US attacks within the next decade.

    Yes I’m referring to you guys: gooz-pich, closet-case, RSH.

    Of course when you have to commit to a quantitative prediction you will pussy out.

    Just watch.

  481. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    James,

    Are you familiar with “Monty Python’s Flying Circus”?

  482. fyi says:

    Richard Steven Hack says:

    November 11, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Israelis will not attack Iran, they want the Mad King to do it for them.

    And the Mad King already revealed that he will attack Iran in any opportune moment.

    That P5+1 could not agree means that UNSC is also dead and with it such institutions of the Peace of Yalta such as UN, IMF, WHO, NPT etc.

    For Iran, a country that was invaded 3 times in less than a hundred years to speak of International Law is the height of folly.

    For Iran, whose government was overthrown twice by through foreign machinations in less than a century, to expect anything from International Law is abject stupidity.

    For Iran, who was attacked by WMD wand with impunity in contravention of an International Legal Instrument of Disarmament, to put any stock in International Law is an act of extreme foolishness.

    For Iran, a country that since August of this year has been publicly marked as a target of regime change by the Mad King to even speak of International Law is just plain stupid.

    Iran has to leave NPT at the most opportune time and take credible nuclear defensive measures.

    There is no other way.

  483. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 11, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Are you US Government.

    They have revealed that regime destruction – regardless of the nuclear file – remains their aim in Iran.

    Which part of that strategic clarity do you not understand?

    And frankly, Saudi Arabia is the enemy of Shia and Iran and will remain so until the Wahabi influence in that state is uprooted.

    Furthermore, Saudi Arabia remains the enemy of the 3 other schools as well, it just has been hidden by their primary animus against the Shia.

    That cannot be altered and Iran’s conflict with Saudi Arabia will persist until there is a new regime in Saudi Arabia.

    As for nuclear Iran, that horse has left the barn; you cannot expect Iran not to take all the steps necessary to enhance her security.

    That is just plain stupid.

    And as the late Mr. Khomeini said: “America cannot do a damn thing.”

    [Yes they can bomb, naval blockade etc….Those will not alter the strategic situations.]

    If Americans were smart, they would fly to Tehran today, kiss the hand of Mr. Khamenei, and beg him to help them extricate themselves from this war against Islam.

    But Americans their hubris prevents them.

    And so all the wars of the Mad King will continue…

  484. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 12, 2013 at 9:56 am

    I remained silent for a few hours to allow James to fully air out his subtle animus toward Iran.

    He now admits that he believes Iran plans to “make a bomb”, and that the West was playing a game of good cop/bad cop with Iran in Geneva.

    All the rose petals in the world cannot hide the smell of B.S. emanating from the West. And, James trying to put his typical spin on it only makes it smell worse!

    Israelis, Saudis, AIPAC, … all creations of the West – all obedient to the West’s needs. Iran … – well, not so much – as the saying goes.

    As I repeat again, this is an opportunity for Iranians to inoculate themselves – particularly the young – against the propaganda of the West. The only deal to be had with the West is the one Qaddafi and Saddam and others received after deciding to serve the West. Iranians do not want nor need that deal!

  485. fyi says:

    All:

    A Russian perspective (which implicitly acknowledges the death of NPT, UN, etc.)

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/russia-iran-talks-response-nuclear-geneva.html

    The key statement is this – in my view –

    “or everyone is allowed (Nuclear Weapons), under certain conditions.”

  486. Irshad says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    James, you keep asserting that US policy towards Iran is directed and controlled by powerful Jewish individuals or Isreali lobby in the US, hence US relations with Iran is next to non-existant.

    So how do you explain the behaviour of the British govt, towards Iran? There are no powerful Israeli lobby or rich Jewish indiviuals to press Cameron/Vhague to scr3w Iran like the US? I am specifically thinking of these 3 issues:

    1. Banning of Press TV in UK
    2. The first country to sanction Iran’s Central Bank (which led to UK’s embassy been stormed by students)
    3. UK ambassador to Isreal, Matthew’s Gould, role in a plot to attack on Iran (part of the Fox-Werritty scandal)
    4. Vhagues blocking of Shell to pay its Iran debt of $2.3b in food and medicine.
    5. UK supporting the takfiri terrorists fighting in Syria against the UN recognised govt. But is more then happy to arrest British nationals returning from Turkey/Syria under terrororism laws!

    Whose controlling UK govts foreign policy? Whats your excuse for them?

  487. Irshad says:

    EDIT: Lat post should say 5 and not 3!

  488. Irshad says:

    James, you maybe interested, but you have Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, writing an article in the Jpost, denouncing the UK govt. for its supposed “anti-semitism” and that British Jews are not standing up for Isreal in UK:

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/No-Holds-Barred-British-animus-and-Anglo-Jewish-silence-on-Israel-331370

    Please explain to me UK govt. behaviour.

  489. Karl.. says:

    fyi
    November 12, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Hahaha, thats hilarious. Same with poolio in Syria that is now “going” to europe.

  490. Smith says:

    The last article of Professor Kenneth Waltz: http://goo.gl/uAYtA

  491. Fiorangela says:

    1. Bussed-in Basiji — what does that mean, “get the damn rope?” Is that like, “get the hook,” when a comic stinks so badly that he must be got off the stage??

    2. NIAC posted a video of a panel with Prince Faisal, Shireen (aka Persian Tiger) Hunter, Yosi Alpher, and Aaron David Miller. Trita Parsi moderated.

    Flynt Leverett would have been an extraordinary contribution to the conversation.

    Faisal riled Hunter, who let him know in no uncertain terms.

    But Faisal also proposed — insisted, actually — on consideration of Nuclear Free Zone, including Israel. period. full stop.

    Alpher objected: “Israel said it will join NFZ once it is at peace with all its neighbors.” Faisal said, “you are a defeatist.” Miller said, “You want a transformational change; it ain’t gonna happen. The best you can hope for is a transaction.” Faisal said, “You are not just wrong, you are massively wrong.”

    Shireen Hunter, bless her heart, came back again and again, and was the only one who pointed to the bloody hands of the USA in creating turmoil in the entire region.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxONZ7dRS4c&feature=share&list=UUSVyoioqofgknJ7e7-AFKvA

  492. James Canning says:

    Irshad,

    Jack Straw, the former Foreign Secretary, has taken a great deal of flak for making the obviously true statement that rich Jews in the US have been making it more difficult to resolve the Israel/Palestine problem. Straw phrased it differently, of course.

  493. James Canning says:

    Irshad,

    Quite a few English Jews see that Israel needs to make a deal with the Palestinians, and that a P5+1 deal with Iran would be a good thing even if Israel objects.

  494. James Canning says:

    Irshad,

    The primary point I make about the Israel lobby in the US, and how this relates to Iranian nuclear dispute, is that money matters, and that Jews are hugely important in funding political campaigns.

  495. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You can be sure that the Russian foreign minister supports the UN and the NPT, and that Russia does too. Strongly.

  496. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    I have never said I think Iran is trying to build nukes. I do think a number of Iranian leaders have bben rather ambiguous in their intentions, as evidenced by huge number of centrifuges etc etc that have been installed.

  497. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    I think I have been a consistent advocate of a richer and stronger Iran. That I argue against blunders is not inconsistent with my position.

  498. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Your claim Obama has indicated he will attack Iran at the first opportune moment is DEAD WRONG. Obama almost certainly would cut off all Iranian oil exports first, and any attack would come from Iran.

  499. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    That is a propaganda photo article. It only includes dams in nations, Americans hate.

    Stop building dams in US if you do not like them. Deconstruct what you already built: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reservoirs_and_dams_in_the_United_States

    Then we will believe your word.

    Iran needs to build more and more dams.

    Iran needs to enrich uranium and use it in reactors to desalinate water.

    Only enemies of Iran is opposed to Iran doing these. In fact there is a huge propaganda going on to inflame secessionist movements inside Iran by using the issue of water and dams.

    If you are not an enemy of Iran or a propagandist, stop raising this issue specially as an American.

  500. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    I think John Cleese could do wonders with some of the material you provide on this site.

  501. James Canning says:

    Bussed-In Basiji,

    I think John Cleese would love to work with your argument that white people should not comment on activities of black people, even if those activities include slaughtering civilians.

  502. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Birth rates in Spain and Portugal are low. Neither country, of course, was “targeted” by the US in any war the past century.

  503. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    South Korea’s birthrate is very low, and of course this had zero to do with a US “attack”.

    Increasing prosperity often leads to lower birth rates.

    Russia has 9 million people living withing its borders, who came from Central Asia.

  504. James Canning says:

    Don Bacon,

    John Kerry still hopes to make the deal, between Iran and P5+1. But you are right to think Obama himself wants to do what he can to enable a deal to be achieved, provided he not incur too much political damage.

  505. Irshad says:

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    Janes – please read my question and then answer it – its a simple straightforward question.

  506. James Canning says:

    Charles Krauthammer, one of the better-known neocon warmongers in the US, is arguing Iran will not give up its nukes unless the US threatens regime change.

  507. James Canning says:

    Irshad,

    You asked many questions, and it would take pages to answer them.

    I think some Brits who influence the making of foreign policy thought Iran was determined to get too close to ability to make nukes quickly.

    I continue to think William Hague would like to see an improvement in Britain’s relations with Iran, provided a deal with P5+1 is achieved. In short run, Hague may send a British ambassador to the embassy in Tehran, and accept Iranian ambasssador in London.

  508. Fiorangela says:

    Smith says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I am not an enemy of Iran, nor an anti-Iran propagandist. Quite the contrary.

  509. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning,

    Okay,
    there are multiple causes for demographic declines in a nation.

    war is one of them.
    famine is another.

    Iran managed to reverse a series of trends/catastrophes. it may be a short-term reversal, but enough to re-establish the nation on a positive trajectory.

  510. James Canning says:

    Julian Borger, in the Guardian, reports that Fabius told Kerry (in their meeting late Saturday in Geneva) France did not want the preamble to the agreement to state that Iran had right to enrich urnaium.

  511. Kathleen says:

    If Israel (who has all ready committed acts of war against Iran) decides to pre-emptively attack Iran lets hope Obama and Kerry take Dr. Zbigniew Brezinski’s suggestions awhile back
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133515#.UoKAiSfaKSo
    “Zbigniew Brzezinski, who enthusiastically campaigned for U.S. President Barack Obama, has called on the president to shoot down Israeli planes if they attack Iran. “They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?” said the former national security advisor to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter in an interview with the Daily Beast. Brzezinski, who served in the Carter administration from 1977 to 1981, is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies in Maryland.

    “We have to be serious about denying them that right,” he said. “If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a ‘Liberty’ in reverse.’” Israel mistakenly attacked the American Liberty ship during the Six-Day War in 1967.”

  512. nico says:

    Interesting article to better understand the central role of gold in International trade and currency regulation, USD status and how and why the Petrodollar was born.
    It shows as wel the central role of the IMF to manage Gold and the USD dominance.

    “What A Confidential 1974 Memo To Paul Volcker Reveals About America’s True Views On Gold, Reserve Currency And “PetroGold””

    _www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-11/what-confidential-1974-memo-paul-volcker-reveals-about-americas-true-views-gold-rese

    In addition to that one may be interested to read the following as well

    “Declassified State Dept Data Highlights Global High-Level Arrangement To “Remain Masters Of Gold” By “The Reshuffle Club””

    _www.zerohedge.com/article/declassified-state-dept-data-highlights-global-high-level-arrangement-remain-masters-gold-re

  513. Kathleen says:

    “Israel mistakenly attacked the American Liberty ship during the Six Day WAr in 1967” No one believes that.

    “Liberty in reverse”

  514. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I think that demographic “decline” can be a very good thing. In some countries. I think Japan benefits from a lowering of the population. China too. Iran likely would do best with stable propulation. Turkey too. Pakistan would obviously beneift from significant population decline. Egypt too.

  515. James Canning says:

    Kathleen,

    I too think the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in June 1967, was intentional.

    I doubt very much that Israel would attack Iran.

  516. James Canning says:

    “We all know that Bibi Netanyahu is a pain in the ass.”
    – – Obama, to some of his aides (re: Israel’s ‘red lines’ on Iran)

  517. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    That is very good to hear. BBC, VOA, RFERL, etc etc Persian Services are doing their best, producing propaganda after propaganda to show that Iranian state is mad, evil and anti-people since it building dams. They also are using the issue of water, its distribution and dams to facilitate secession from Iran.

  518. James Canning says:

    On PBS TV in America (“New Hour”), Margaret Warner said: “But [for Kerry] to be publicly blindsided by Foreign Minister Fabius, that did come, I’m told, as a surprise.” (Mondoweiss has piece covering this.)

  519. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Prince Faisal thinks that Netayahu’s personality [disorder -ed] is such that he would attack Iran.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxONZ7dRS4c&feature=share&list=UUSVyoioqofgknJ7e7-AFKvA

  520. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    You stated, and I quote:
    “The US would accept a much richer and stronger Iran, that clearly was not building nukes or trying to get close to ability to build nukes quickly.”

    This statement of yours suggests the underpinning of a deception – that Iran is trying to build nukes quickly. So, did you or did you not say that “Iran is trying to build nukes”?

  521. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Your positions are inconsistent because they do not agree with facts on the ground.

    Iran needed the 20% enriched material for medical purposes and offered to buy it, but the West refused. That is a fact.

    What the West would or would not have done had Iran produced less or more 20% enriched material is speculation! There is zero evidence that had Iran produced less 20% enriched material the West would have changed its response.

    Note: fact vs. speculation. You choose to promote your speculative view – that is inconsistent.

  522. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 12, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    You are wasting your time.

    He is in state of denial with respect to the US strategic aim, destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    Since 08/21/2013 there is no longer any strategic ambiguity on that account.

  523. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 12, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Perhaps you are correct!

    I am inclined to agree with your assessment on US strategic aims – ostensibly, due to a somewhat different analysis.

    I think had the Islamic Republic of Iran been called the “Atheist Republic of Iran”, the US strategic aims would have remained the same. Furthermore, it is not about Iran, or Iraq, …etc. It is about the larger view of world governance – ultimately this hegemony is to include larger and more developed countries. Moreover, it is not the US as a country, it is the US as a corporate entity!

  524. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 12, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    You might be correct.

    That the enemies of Israel are also strategic targets for US is a matter of both creed as well as geopolitics.

    Yugoslavia comes to mind.

  525. Fiorangela says:

    How God Made the English A Chosen People

    informative 1-hour video history of how Catholicism came to England from Pope Gregory to Bede; then Henry crushed Catholicism and replaced it with a direct implantation of Christianity through Joseph of Arimathea. The choseness that conveyed with Christianity meant the English were the moral exemplars of the world, ordained to tell everyone else how to live. From Wilberforce and anti-slavery to Winston Churchill “saving the world for Christianity” to Tony Blair obliterating Iraq “because it is right,” the English were put on earth by god to teach others how to live a moral life.

  526. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    High Church Anglicans (and Episcopalians) often regard themselves as Catholic, though not subservient to Rome.

  527. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Did Israel have a problem with Yugoslavia?

  528. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    US policy is not to seek the destruction of the “Islamic Republic”. Full stop. Were war to erupt, who can say what then might flow?

  529. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Yes, sheer stupidity on the part of the US in effect forced Iran to begin enriching to 20%.

    But Iran helped wreck William Hague’s intention of improving relations with Iran, by announcing intent to treble 20% U production. ONLY reason for such a trebling was to probe for reaction on part of the West, to Iran’s getting closer to build nukes quickly. Major mistake on Iran’s part, in my view.

  530. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    The fear in the P5+1 is simply that Iran seems to be trying to get close to the ability to build nukes quickly. This is one reason the stockpiling of 20U was such a large mistake, in my view.

  531. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    I have never said that Iran is trying to build nukes. Full stop.

  532. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I continue to think Israel will not attack Iran. If Iran stockpiles more 20% U, my thinking could change. Arak also a problem. Interesting thoughts on the part of the prince, that you linked.

  533. Sineva says:

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm
    There is nothing ambiguous about it james,all of irans enrichment sites are under iaea safgaurds,it also requires thousands of centrifuges to produce the amounts of fuel that a commercial plant like bushehr would need to operate,it sounds like you agree with the western line than iran should think itself lucky to have only a handful of research centrifuges.It doesnt matter what the west suspects what matters is that iran has the right to operate as many centrifuges as it sees fit.Personally I think these western “suspicions” are just a convenient excuse for sanctions and threats of regime change,if you want to blame anyone for this situation then should place the blame where it is deserved with the west and the russians,it was their failures to live up to their npt obligations that forced iran to develop an advanced nuclear industrial capability,how could it ever trust the west to supply it with technology or fuel,and how could it trust that the russians wouldnt renege on their deals especially after the bushehr fiasco

  534. Jay says:

    James,
    yet more inconsistency! You need to visit and reconcile your own writing.

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    “…ONLY reason for such a trebling was to probe for reaction on part of the West, to Iran’s getting closer to build nukes quickly.”

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm
    “Jay,

    I have never said that Iran is trying to build nukes. Full stop.”

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    “… Iran, that clearly was not building nukes or trying to get close to ability to build nukes quickly.”