The Iranian Nuclear Issue and Sino-Iranian Relations


As the world waits to see if Iran and the P5+1 reach a final nuclear agreement by November 24, we remain relatively pessimistic about the prospects for such an outcome.  Above all, we are pessimistic because closing a comprehensive nuclear accord will almost certainly require the United States to drop its (legally unfounded, arrogantly hegemonic, and strategically senseless) demand that the Islamic Republic dismantle a significant portion of its currently operating centrifuges as a sine qua non for a deal.

–While we would love to be proved wrong on the point, it seems unlikely that the Obama administration will drop said demand in order to close a final agreement.

–Alternatively, a final deal would become at least theoretically possible if Iran agreed to dismantle an appreciable portion of its currently operating centrifuges, as Washington and its British and French partners demand.  However, we see no sign that Tehran is inclined to do this.  Just last week, Deputy Foreign Minister Abbas Araqchi reiterated that, in any agreement, “all nuclear capabilities of Iran will be preserved and no facility will be shut down or even suspended and no device or equipment will be dismantled.”

Still, almost regardless of the state of U.S./P5+1 nuclear diplomacy with Iran a month from now, the Islamic Republic’s relations with a wide range of important states are likely to enter a new phaseAmong these states, China figures especially prominently.

To explore the historical factors and contemporary dynamics shaping the prospective trajectory of Sino-Iranian relations, we have written a working paper, American Hegemony (and Hubris), the Iranian Nuclear Issue, and the Future of Sino-Iranian Relations.  It has been posted online, see here to download, as part of the Penn State Law Legal Studies Research Paper Series.  It will soon be published as a chapter in a forthcoming volume on The Emerging Middle East-East Asia Nexus.

As our paper notes, the People’s Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Iran have, over the last three decades, “forged multi-dimenstional cooperative relations, emphasizing energy, trade and investment, and regional security.”  There are compelling reasons for this.  Among other things, both political orders were born of revolutions dedicated to restoring their countries’ independence and sovereignty after extended periods of dominance by foreign—above all, Western—powers.  Today, both are pursuing what we describe as “counter-hegemonic” foreign policies, especially vis-à-vis the United States.

But, while U.S. primacy incentivizes closer Sino-Iranian ties, it has also kept those ties from advancing as far as they might have otherwise, particularly on the Chinese side.  Over the years, Beijing has tried to balance its interests in developing ties to Tehran with its interest in maintaining at least relatively positive relations with Washington.  Our paper examines a series of trends that are reducing China’s willingness to continue accommodating U.S. pressure over relations with Iran.

–We assess that, as these trends play out, “Chinese policymakers will continue seeking an appropriate balance between China’s relations with the Islamic Republic and its interest in maintaining positive ties to the United States.  Nevertheless, [this] balance will continue shifting, slowly but surely, toward more focused pursuit of China’s economic, energy, and strategic interests in Iran.”

–We also argue that, unless the United States fundamentally revises its own posture toward the Islamic Republic, “a deepening of Sino-Iranian relations will almost certainly accelerate trends in the international economic order—e.g., backlash against Washington’s increasingly promiscuous use of financial sanctions as a foreign policy tool and the slow erosion of dollar hegemony—that are weakening America’s global position.”

We look forward to a lively discussion.

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett


309 Responses to “The Iranian Nuclear Issue and Sino-Iranian Relations”

  1. Don Bacon says:

    Closing a comprehensive nuclear accord would also jeopardize the rationale of the US investments in its Persian Gulf empire which include large investments in base infrastructure and 40,000 troops, as well as the huge foreign military sales program to Persian Gulf despots because of the “Iran threat.”

    Iran, like its ally Russia, has already been forced to look eastward where the economic growth is and away from Europe (except Germany) which is in downfall. Nothing will change that.

    Iran is the only practical gateway from the Arabian Sea to Central Asia. India is investing in that, specifically in Chabahar port connecting to Afghanistan, which of course interests China.

  2. Neil M says:

    Considering the well-known daydreams of world-domination, by military means and/or externally-sown chaos nurtured by America’s elites, I love the irony inherent in the World’s Second ex-Superpower pretending not to notice that Russia’s leader is ex-KGB and China’s leader is the Chair of China’s Central Military Commission.

  3. Smith says:

    I am sorry but I do not agree with Leveretts on this. I think both China and Russia see Iran not as a partner but as a card to be used for their own interests. This is unfortunate.

    There is no evidence that China or even Russia have any strategic plan to counter US and the West. Both want to live day to day for different reasons and at least China thinks the status quo serves them well. In the case of China which has become a hypercapitalist nation, with many of its top brass in business having deep relationships in the West, such political shifts are unlikely. Even Putin is trying to sweeten up to the West after only minor sanctions were implemented against Russia. Neither China nor Russia can afford or want any kind of escalation game with the mad king.

    Iran is alone. Until she can prove herself that she can survive whatever US will throw at her.

  4. Pirouz says:

    Here’s a brief rundown on the recent uptick in official exchanges of Iran Navy (IRIN) with Russian Navy and China Navy (PLA-N)

    – 19DEC12, Russian Navy vessel docks at Iran’s port city of Bandar Abbas

    – 21APR13, Russian Navy vessels dock at Iran’s port city of Bandar Abbas

    – 04MAY13, Iran Navy vessels dock at China’s port city of Zhangjiagang

    – 30JUN13, Iran Navy vessels dock at Russia’s port city of Astrakhan

    – 20OCT13, Official visit to Iran by by Russian Air Force Commander

    – 07MAY14, Official visit to China by Iranian Defense Minister Hossein Dehqan

    – 23MAY14, Official visit to Russia by Iranian Defense Minister Hossein Dehqan

    – 20SEP14, Chinese Navy vessels dock at Iran’s port city of Bandar Abbas

    – 13OCT14, Russian Navy vessels dock at Iran’s port city of Bandar Anzali

    – 20OCT14, Iran Navy commander tours Shanghai Naval Base, East Sea Fleet

    – 23OCT14, Iran Navy commander meets China defense minister in Beijing, tours North Sea Fleet Headquarters at at Qingdao Naval Base

  5. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    October 31, 2014 at 2:29 am

    I agree with your assessment.

    They will take notice when the first squadron of indigenously produced fighter jets are flying over Bandar Abbas.

    As well as 20 nuclear weapons; armed and targeted.

  6. fyi says:

    Don Bacon says:

    October 30, 2014 at 10:06 pm

    India is not investing anything in Chah-Bahar; the announcement was aimed at getting US attention.

  7. Nasser says:

    Smith says: October 31, 2014 at 2:29 am

    Agreed fully.

    I would only add that at least Russia in particular has its own interest in keeping Iran weak.

    When elephants fight, grass suffers. Playing this side against another, didn’t work for Iran when it was the British Empire vs the Russian Empire; who both managed to gobble up Iranian territories. Or during the Cold War when both Superpowers backed Saddam to the hilt. And it is not going to work now either. The only solution is for Iran to become a little elephant in its own right with its own strategic weapons; no longer victim to the whims of other great powers.

  8. BiBiJon says:

    A couple of observations:

    a) If the US has found it so difficult/impossible to accept Iran’s influence/power in the Persian Gulf, it doesn’t bode well for how sanguine the US would be about an Iran + China influence/power in the same area. Whether through accommodation or Conquest, US must have Iran on her side.

    b) If Gareth Porter is correct that the nuclear negotiations are now all about stockpiles of enriched uranium, then how ironic that after all these years, we have come back to square one: NPT, and comprehensive safeguards agreements confining themselves to accounting for nuclear materials, nothing else.

  9. Nasser says:


    Shireen Hunter on Iranian border problems and Iran-Pakistan relations more broadly:

    Her recommendations are rather vague and no where near as detailed as yours but her analysis of the situation is correct I believe.

    I am sorry I couldn’t respond earlier but thank you for sharing that post on Iran’s border security and for your other contributions on the net that I was unaware of. You know I shouldn’t have been surprised by the reaction you received to your post. I remember when you suggested on this forum that Iran would be well served by building some of its own semiconductor fabrication facilities and their response was that there really is no need for such a thing because Iran already is far advanced in this arena. If they admit there is a problem, and more so admit that there is a solution to that problem, they might actually have to start working hard and expend some brain power to solve that problem and they can’t have that now can they

  10. kooshy says:

    استانی که تعداد قضات زن آن بیشتر از قضات مرد است

    Translation” The (Iranian) province (Yazd) that has more female judges than men judges.

    All along one is told that in Iranian judicial system women judges are not allowed, nerveless out of all places in Iran, one of the most religious provinces, Yazd also known as Dar al Ebadeh (land of worshiping) has more female than male judges.

  11. Nasser says:

    “If a deal is reached in the next few months, growth will no doubt accelerate. If not, the government faces a tough choice. One course of action, which is increasingly likely, is to extend the negotiations and hope for the recovery to continue. Another more drastic course of action is to declare the talks dead and prepare the economy for a long-term reorientation away from the West, as envisaged in the “Resistance Economy.”

    Optimism about a nuclear deal is good for growth but it also delays the adjustment that is necessary if the talks fail. For Iranian firms to commit to a long-term redirection of production away from Western suppliers, they need a clear signal about the future of Iran’s relation with the West.”

  12. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 31, 2014 at 10:12 am

    Recently I read Rudel’s book “Stuka Pilot” about his fighting experience in the cockpit of Junkers Ju-87. It’s an amazing read. How a bit of technology and lots of research and development combined with the iron will of brave men can achieve such mind boggling results so much so that even the enemy had to learn from. How a single man goes on destroying over 1000 tanks and sinking battleships and blowing up bunkers after bunkers.

    In the course of reading the book, one can not stop wondering that Iran during the 1980’s could not even copy and build something like Junkers Ju-87, therefore had to send in 13 year old kids to lie down under the chain-tracks of Iraqi tanks in the hope that their soft flesh, bone and cartilages slow down the advance of Iraqi armor. I seriously doubt Iran even today has the capability to copy Ju-87. It is a plane with the technology of 1930’s. But such is the state of a cargo cult nation like Iran.

    US on the other hand (thanks to people like John Boyd and his fighter mafia), forced a group of engineers to read Rudel’s book “Stuka Pilot” and design a cheap, low technology and easy to fly ground attack plane that became known as A-10. They minced Iraqi armor with such devastating results that afterwards, the military commentators in 1990’s had started to argue that the days of armor and tanks are over.

    China and Russia can not help Iran. Neither can anyone else. The only people who can help Iran are the Iranians. That is if they can ditch their muleteer cargo cult ideologies and focus on innovation and self improvement.

  13. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 22, 2014 at 9:24 am

    One should not give much credit to those tiles. The Penrose tiling formula was unknown to the Iranian bricklayers. These bricklayers were functioning at the level of an insect without the capability to discover and generalize the laws of nature as the Westerners have been doing.

    The spider that goes around weaving 3-D fractal webs is unaware of the mathematics behind its doing. Similarly a bee constructing a hive structure using the technology of 3-D printing hexagonal cellular units side by side, is unaware of its own doing. Hell, forget about the insects, at least they are alive. The ice crystals forming complex mathematical Mandlebrot Sets are not self aware. We do not consider ice crystals intelligent and innovative despite their fractal beauty. Similar is the case with these Iranian bricklayers. They were functioning at the level of an ice crystal or even lower. I do not even consider them useful insects. Not even maggots or leeches. For even these have limited useful applications in surgical debridement and management of hemochromatosis. They are more like parasites. A tinea. An ascaris.

    We have to be careful about praising the “arts” of a cargo cult nation. This gives them oxygen, boosting their ego and letting them live even longer lives than the already long lives these kaftals are living.

    Their short zigzagging runways, their leafy zulu-hut control towers and their hilarious bamboo transmitters should be condemned and ridiculed at every turn without any mercy. Trying to pass these crappy crafts as beautiful art, will only entrench the cargo cult deeper, making them more resistant to quitting their cargo ideology and embracing scientific inquiry.

  14. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 22, 2014 at 9:16 am

    ” We have to wait for the weak-minded to live their natural life spans and die.

    But see this:

    I am agreed. I guess it is going to be a very very long time.

    That link you put there, was indeed vindicating. I almost fell to the ground with laughter when I read the part: ” سرعت پیشرفتمان خوب است اما عقب ماندگی آنقدر زیاد است که سرعت پیشرفت افاقه نکرده است. ”

    ROFL. ha ha ha ha

    افاقه نکرده است

    The ultimate punchline.

  15. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    October 31, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    Only if muleteers could understand it. Only if and only if.

  16. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    October 31, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    I do not agree with her assessment. First her argument is revolving around her thesis that if Iran had been good with super powers then she would not be in such a situation. Which is a lie. Then she is of the mind that Pakistan is an autonomous and powerful entity. Another lie. As per Pakistan’s own official admissions, the Pakistani security establishment has divided its Baluchistan province into two areas called A and B. The A areas which are about 5% of the total area of Baluchistan province, is under the control of Pakistan. The rest called the B area are lawless and Pakistan has no or very little control over it.

    Even if Pakistan wanted to secure the border with Iran, it could not. It does not have the resources to do so. Not that Pakistan is at all interested to do such a thing for the benefit of Iran. The total annual trade between Pakistan and Iran is 300 million dollars, a laughable joke of an amount. Iran does not provide any aid to Pakistan and currently has almost no security and military cooperation with Pakistan. As for as Pakistan is concerned, Iran does not even exist.

    Under such circumstances, instead of angering a nuclear armed state by killing their soldiers and crossing over the border, the sane option for Iran would have been to secure the border using the ideas I had enumerated. You do not make an enemy out of a nation whose population is the most pro-Iran in the world (per numerous polls).

    But you saw the reaction of muleteers to a sane advice. As always they came and started digging their own graves, then the mischievous side of me could not resist so I kicked their butts for good.

  17. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    October 31, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    Mr. Khamenei thinks that some day Iran could be scientifically and technically and culturally as vigorous as France.

    But he also understands that he is going against the grain of a sizable population of Iranians (and others in Islamic countries) – they do not want to think so hard, labor so vigorously, and endure mental and physical anguish to reach those peaks of progress that Mr. Khamenei envisions.

    But thanks to vigorous US-EU campaign of trying to destroy Iranian polity’s cohesion and thus its power, there is no option left for Iranians but to move forward.

    Iran has made certain gains by mastering certain 1950s & 1960s technologies – including those of rocketry and nuclear sciences – which US, EU, China, and Russia are quite clearly aim to destroy.

    Another challenge for Iran and Iranians is that their are surrounded by people who cannot help them; it is like if France were surrounded by illiterates and ignoramus in Europe – how far would have she been able to progress if every idea, every innovation, every invention had to be developed and explored by the French alone?

    I think the “critical mass” of brains is lacking too; if the old provinces of the Seljuk Empire could collaborate, something may yet be achieved. This is the contemporary mission of Iran and Iranians – and if they fail Muslims will forever be like what South America is today and will be tomorrow – the poor cousin of Europeans – always waiting for the latest emanations from EU or US.

  18. Smith says:

    Cargo scientists of Pakistan and their cargo research all exposed by Dr Hoodbhoy:

  19. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    October 31, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    No, you are wrong.

    Both in Europe and in Iran there were very knowledgeable craftsmen that jealously guarded their trade secrets and passed it on verbally to their acolytes and pupils. That is why no one has been able to recreate a Stradivarius violin, or certain pigmentations used in stained glasses, etc.

    In Europe, eventually, the Applied Arts were systematized (after the Newtonian Revolution) and became formalized.

  20. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 31, 2014 at 4:57 pm

    Yes, that is pretty much it. But I think Iran can capitalize on somethings which were not available to France at that time. The free flow of information today, the digital distribution networks and the availability of tools and their concepts for use in copying and learning from.

    Another dimension of this, would be the position of Iran with regard to the world and particularly to the Shias. Iran’s scientific culture is one of muleteerism and cargo cultism. Otherwise it would not be difficult if Iran wanted to emulate some good stuff from US, eg. when US gives scholarship to a beautiful young petite Iranian girl to come to US and study mathematics, embarking upon a life of discovery and then marrying and having children. Can Iran offer the same to Shias around the world? Can Iran offer the same to Muslims around the world? Can Iran offer the same to an American non-Muslim girl?

    We know the answer to these. They would rather lick the bottom of Peugeot and keep 120 billion dollars belonging to Iranian nation in Western banks to that the money can be sized forever and used to buy shock and water resistant tablets for NYPD:

    The rest of the money is spent on their cronyism and corruption. God forbid the day that they actually spend some money on young brains whether Iranian, Muslim or Not.

  21. Nasser says:


    In the previous thread you made a comment about the necessity of mastering material science and metallurgy and the role of exotic alloys in the building of important parts of aircraft engines.

    I remember some months ago I saw an interview with a MAPNA executive where he commented that they are doing research and making some progress in this area. However, it didn’t seem like they managed to devote enough money to this endeavour or that this was state supported being deemed a national priority like it should be.

    To the best of your knowledge how reliant is MAPNA still on foreign suppliers for manufacturing their turbines and the blades of those turbines?

  22. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 31, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    I do not agree with that. Since there is no evidence for it.

    But say, you are right for a moment. That they actually knew. What’s the use of that knowledge which is not systemically analyzed, questioned, advanced and openly transferred to the next generation. Such a knowledge even if it existed is more like a cult of magic, without any understanding of its true significance.

    I do not know whether you have any experience of university life in cargo cult societies. In these universities, the knowledge is not considered a growing endeavor. The professor is jealously guarding his secrets from his students, lest if they learnt all his tricks then he might lose his position. The consultant surgeon does every thing in his power to guard his skills from the prying eyes of his students, lest these students learn and set up shot in front of his private business.

    I know them well. I know their culture down to its Z.

    Useless insects. They never rose above an animalistic level of functioning. They never saw the beauty in creation and its inherent ultimate meaning for a self aware human being.

  23. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    October 31, 2014 at 5:20 pm

    I am not privy to internal functioning of MAPNA. I just know that it is one of the very very few companies in Iran that actually does something beneficial and even some real industrial research. At least in the arena of trying to copy hitech western equipment.

    At this stage, it is rather irrelevant how much independent capacity MAPNA has. The problem that is occurring with MAPNA is entirely different. Because of sanctions, they have become the only supplier in Iranian market and the power plant owners are not happy as the lack of competition has caused MAPNA to charge hefty prices for its services.

    The experience with MAPNA though technically successful, goes to show in an economic sense that Iran when building such companies should not build only a single one and consider the need of nation fulfilled. A country like Iran would at least two and best 3 or 4 such companies that compete with each other, therefore growing both in their independence as well as quality and fair pricing. This is something that even the communist soviets knew. Even in their communist economy they had several independent companies competing to provide the same service. But in Iran, the concepts of industrial competition by companies whose core is built around R&D labs, does not exist. Even the hitech companies are managed as per laws of magic and cargo cultism.

    Until that day comes, a few small flukes like MAPNA can not change the destiny of Iran.

  24. fyi says:

    Mr. Smith & Mr. Nasser:

    The only actor that can do what we all wish for Iran is the state; that was the experience of Russia (starting from the late Peter the Great to the late Stalin), of China from the time of the late President Sun Yat-Sen, the Meiji Restoration in Japan, and distantly that of Korea.

    This model, however effective, has a significant deficiency in that it does not go to the heart of matter; the freedom that exists – relative to other human societies – for the individual human being to pursue his or her interests; including making money, or being lazy, or developing products etc.

  25. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    October 31, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    I am saddened to hear of these examples that you have mentioned; hording knowledge for the sake of presumed “survival” value of it.

    The late Al Beiruni mentioned in his Researches on India (Tahqiq ma’al Hind) that the Brahmins did exactly the same thing; jealously guarding every tiny morsel of knowledge and not sharing it.

    Which, likely, a giant such as him would find contemptible.

    I have seem some examples of such behavior in isolated places; among industrial workers, among academics in this or that department who are suffering from a dearth of new ideas (Physics, Linguistics, Sociology), and as of late among certain classes of office workers whose mid-level work is being moved to India.

    Behind all of that is “Fear”; in the Quran 30 times and in the New Testament 300 times or more Men are urged to not fear.

    Let me share with you an anecdote about Japan:

    Professor X and his former students (professors in their own rights) meet in a retreat for a few days somewhere in Japan.

    During that retreat, Professor X assigns certain areas of research to his former students and together they map out a research strategy for the next year.

    This is a very efficient and a very effective way of generating knowledge.

    This is to be contrasted with the anarchic way of Euro-American researchers who pursue their own interests – for the better or worse – without regard to their former teachers and professors.

  26. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    October 31, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    If Iranians were smart, they would have built an institute for and around Dr. Mirzakahni.

  27. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 31, 2014 at 8:37 pm

    The role of state obviously can not be underestimated. But what do you think of Deutscher Werkbund? I think if Iran followed such a model, then the individual’s capacity for imagination and freedom will not be comprised. But that is just my idea.

    I think what is even more important is to value young brains. Providing them the opportunity to grow at the speed of light. This is what impresses me about US every time.

    Take the example of Bill Joy the co-founder of Sun Microsystems which developed technologies at the core of internet. When he was a teenager kid, the country that he lived in 1971, provided him the access to computers. At the time computers were million dollar machines and the computer time was extremely expensive. But nevertheless, he was provided all the time that he needed with 24/7 access. By the time he was an adult, he knew more about programming than the combined expertise of all computer programmers in many other nations of the world. He went on to code some of the most critical programs that run today’s world.

    Or the example of Bill Gates. When he was a 13 year old kid in 1968, his school installed a computer terminal with access to a mainframe. This is 1968 for God’s sake. The school through some donations was buying time on a mainframe. He and his friends kept screwing that terminal day and night. By the time he was 16 he had become such an expert, he and his friends had been given a contract job by Information Sciences Institute to write a computer program automating the payroll system of its employees. This is 1971 and he is a teenager playing with big sharks of the then rising digital world.

    In Iran kids can not even dream of such support. I was thinking, wouldn’t it be a nice idea, instead of licking the bottom of this French company or that Chinese trader, and spending money on corruption and nepotism, afew billion dollars would be set aside to build 3D printing labs in every fvckingg town in Iran? Then give only 10 to 25 years old kids full access to these labs. Let them design and print whatever sh!t comes to their minds. Let them play for 10 years. No limit. No bureaucracy. No sifting for religiosity. No nepotism. Hang all those who try to interfere with this project along with their families.

    After ten years, there will be an army of hundreds of thousands of industrial designers roaming around Iran with world changing ideas. Who knows what can happen then. The world’s first mass produced 3D printed internal combustion engine built by a startup company in Iran. The world’s first 3D printed frameless ultra fuel efficient passenger planes built by another startup company in Iran. I mean this thing is limitless. Artificially intelligent 3D printers building the next generation 3D printers, getting only cues from their Iranian-kid-god-designers.

    But then, all we have are muleteers and bricklayers of a cargo cult. They would never ever have such visions. They would rather park 120 billion dollars right under the nose of the mad king and then poke him and dare him to pick it up. Well, then guess what. He picked it up, you morons. At least you should have spent a fraction of it to invest in such prophetic visions that I bring for your cargo cult. Idiots.

  28. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 31, 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Fear indeed is a factor as you have oft mentioned here and before. The other is the jealousy as you have also oft mentioned it (dear fyi, what would we do if we did not have you here to educate us?).

    I have no problem whichever model Iran chooses. Japanese, Chinese, Russian or European. Though I personally love the European model. And I least like the Russian model of doing things.

  29. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    October 31, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    This would never happen. Cargo cult can not afford such divergence. Its lethal to its very survival.

  30. Nasser says:

    Smith says: October 31, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    Point taken.

    My motivation for asking the question was to try and gauge how much progress an Iranian company might have made in the realm of metallurgy and making of exotic alloys for use in the production of turbine blades. Being able to do so is of course known to be an extreme technical challenge and the key bottleneck for making of turbofan engines.

  31. Nasser says:


    I think Fab Labs like those proposed by MIT Professor Neil Gershenfeld in every town in Iran is a fantastic idea and would probably constitute the biggest and most meaningful educational reform Iran could undertake.

  32. Nasser says:

    fyi says: October 31, 2014 at 8:37 pm

    Agreed. In fact I think that has been the entire sum of my criticisms. I do not very well understand social and cultural motivators for Muslim societies like you or Mr Smith but I do understand that one must devote all available resources at problems that one deems to be of critical import. But the Iranian government has so far proven completely unwilling to spend the necessary resources to become self-sufficient in key strategic areas. And it is not like they didn’t have any money. Like Mr Smith has written before, they managed to waste over a trillion dollars of oil revenues on importing stupid consumer goods, Chinese toys, and cheap water melons instead of investing in semiconductor fabrication foundries for example and other such strategic manufacturing facilities.

    If I thought that Iran was simply incapable of doing what we are proposing and the situation was just completely hopeless, then there would be no reason for me to criticize anything. To give you an example, I had been hearing for years that Iran should have reverse engineered the J79 and J85 turbojet engines (first unveiled in the 50s) by now and even small turbofan engines like the ones found in the KH 55 cruise missiles that Iran bought from Ukraine. I used to look forward to Kish Air Show every year hoping and praying Iran would soon unveil these developments. But when you instead have the government unveil a homebuilt recreational aircraft and engines that could probably be constructed in backyard metal shops and hail them as major state accomplishments, it is just too sad to bear! That just proves how cheap they are and how unwilling they have been to spend resources on things that should have been deemed national priority.

  33. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    November 1, 2014 at 1:19 am

    I do not think Iran is any where near the capability of manufacturing reliable turbofan engines. Even Japan, S.Korea, China and India have problems mastering such technologies. The ground/marine based turbines do not have any weight limitations. Their metallurgy is much simpler than aviation turbines. In aviation, the requirement of being light weight causes extreme emphasis on safety and reliability in addition to minimalist designs as well as use of alloys with rare earth elements.

    There are so many things to consider like power/weight ratio and fuel efficiency and the life/service interval of turbines. All these then require very high quality precision engineering. The closest Iran has come in these endeavors was a geared turbo prop engine they had modified from a Ukrainian modification of a Russian designed helicopter engine for IrAn-140. Iranians curse that engine. But I love it. It’s atleast a try.

    At any rate, such gossip should not take us away from the real problem which is not these issues but the single core of all such matters which is the unthinking nature of Iranian society and culture. Once this is cured, then all these issues will go away. Iran’s problem is not the lack of a manufacturing plant churning out turbofan engines. It is the unthinking people paralyzed into a suspended life of muleteer cargo cultism.

  34. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    November 1, 2014 at 1:22 am

    I am not aware of Mr. Gershenfeld idea. But the point is anything that helps Iranian kids to become creative and grow their desire for innovation, thinking and questioning is what is needed. Innovative ideas are not exclusive to each other. The more the merrier. All such ideas should be implemented so that Iranian kids can go about polishing their talents and shining their ideas instead of the current situation wherein they are spit-shining their joysticks and touchpads. I suggest you read the piece written by Dr. Hoodbhoy about his recommendations for Pakistan which I have linked above, as these pretty much apply to Iran as well.

  35. Amir says:

    Smith says:
    October 31, 2014 at 4:54 pm
    … so I kicked their butts for good.
    By God you are mistaken if you think I would give up on Allah. در حال عزاداری برای حضرت سیدالشهدا هستم و از خدا شرم دارم جایی که چنان ظلمی بر آن حضرت رفته ذهن خود را با لاطائلات تو مشغول کنم.
    Suffices to say that first if our enemies praised us, we had a reason to re-assess our stance; hence you are bitching and moaning, I could say I’m at least not on your side.
    Second, the totality of what you say, that Iranians are this and that, spreading rumors about acid attacks and border clashes with Pakistan (about acid attacks you said something but didn’t continue that, probably understanding that your true intentions would be revealed), your insistence hi-tech research (maybe trying to make some tongues slip?), etc, for anybody with eyes, not چشم دل but two eyes that can see, clearly demonstrates that you are the enemy. Not on the enemy’s side, but the enemy.
    We have heard of the Jewish Iranians who have been recruited by the Israeli Army, and we know Bahais would stop at nothing short of destroying Islam.

    And something for others: I’m not arguing against much of what Mr Ahangar or Mr Haddad is saying. The problem is with our goals. He is looking through the nationalistic prism (not that he actually cares about Iran), but his arguments are focused on security for a nation-state. I see ourselves as something much much bigger that just a nation-state. We represent a path, a hope for the entire humanity; through challenging Imperialism, immorality, Colonialism, ignorance, arrogance and injustice. Never forget the cause and don’t give up. The dogs would always keep barking at the moon.

  36. M.Ali says:

    From the last post, it seemed there is a limit of 300 comments now. What shame to have most of this limit wasted on so many garbage posts.


    You said, ” You know I shouldn’t have been surprised by the reaction you received to your post.” in response to Smith. If we disagree with Smith, its not that Iranians are claiming they have no problems, or as you say, “If they admit there is a problem, and more so admit that there is a solution to that problem, they might actually have to start working hard and expend some brain power to solve that problem and they can’t have that now can they”

    The issue we have is that the “solutions” being screamed from abroad at us cargo cults, rapists, bricklayers, mutineers (is this the new word?), idiots, morons, and so on, isn’t usually realistic. To shout and scream a “solution” is easy.

    Let me try to explain this better with examples.

    Imagine you own a company that produces mobiles. One day, a stranger comes in, while you and your team are working hard, looks at everyone and shouts, “YOU MORONS!! You have to make a mobile phone BETTER than Iphone, Samsung, and LG. IDIOTS. All you have to do is, here is the secret, make one with better battery, better technology, and cheaper price.”

    And you answer, “But…”

    “NO BUTS!! IDIOTS!!”

    And then this guy leaves. Not only would this be useless, unhelpful, and irritating, but now imagine you try to honestly and respectfully discuss the current limitations, but not only would get insulted furthur, but then you have certain people on the sidelines, such as yourself, shaking their head and going, “If they admit there is a problem, and more so admit that there is a solution to that problem, they might actually have to start working hard and expend some brain power to solve that problem and they can’t have that now can they”

    I did a quick internet research and tried to talk about how expensive, complicated, and ultimately fruitless border control with Pakistan might be. Yet you think we claim there isn’t a problem.

    When we claim a course of action is not the right one, it doesn’t mean it is a completely wrong action, but that given a set of different courses of actions, we have to choose the one which has the best benefit relative to its cost.

    Somehow, some of you think everything is just a lever. You go to the Super Border Control lever, pull it, and bam, solved. Then you go to the Nuclear Weapon lever, pull them, bam, 100 nukes ready. Next up, 21st Century Cutting Edge Technology, pull, Iran becomes #1. Medical? Pull, best meds in the world, no need to import anymore. Roads, internet, telecommunication, pull it, no more issue.

    You think what Smith shouts and screams is unique? Its there in every taxi drive, at every family gathering, at every business meeting. In the previous thread, I used the example of the loud football fan that shouts at the TV scream, thinking his special amatuer coach techniques would, if the morons and idiots would listen, make Iran take the world cup. It’s an easy trap to fall into.

    Discussions are useful, but not if it is the equivelant of what I hear 100 times in a day from every Tom, Dick, and Ali.

    Everything is tied together in a complicated manner, every action has a thousand consequences, and a good leader, or decision maker, or managing team, should take everything into consideration. One of the bitter truths that we need to accept is that Iran today entered the world stage with many handicaps based on previous bad decisions. I think Iran has been run badly for several hundred years, that only very recently can we say that we are STARTING to be on the right track. And I don’t even mean since the revolution, I’d say after the war. Which is a bit over two decades. It takes time, and it is a shame that all the effort by certain hard working Iranians are ignored and mocked, and the people that are moving the country forward are reduced to less than insects by people who have done very little for their country, aside from insult them.

    All 80 million of us Iranians would love the problems to be solved in a day. And I’d say most of these 80 million population are like Smith and fyi and yourself, annoyed and angry that others are not listening to their solution and solving it already, if they could just take their dick out of whatever girl they are currently raping for two seconds to pull the fucking Solve Everything lever already.

    But thankfully, there are thousands others, who, everyday, push Iran forward just a bit. I’ve met a lot of them since I moved back to Iran 4-5 years ago. I’ve met young and old men who have worked their ass of in Iran and done something worthwhile in their lives and for their country. I’ve met Iranians, also young and old, who have been living outside Iran for most of their lives, like myself, and have come back to Iran to do something.

    Some of the comments here really frustrate me, but what can you do. It happens all the time. Its like when Iran does something important, wins a competition or something, all Iranians everywhere want to share in the glory. But when we fail at something, when we try but not succeed initially, when we work without the gold medal, then those diaspora Iranians or arrogant internal ones, mock and insult them.

    But that’s fine too, I guess. This has happened before and will happen again. When the revolution happened, there were those that were with the revolution and those against. When the war happened, there were those that died and those that lived and those that run away. In each phase, the ones that moved the course of history for Iran were those that were involved in the country, not the ones that screamed and shouted and did nothing. Even now, its the same. And its the same in every field.

    Look at the music field. The old relics of Iranian pop music are singing their crap songs, such as Andy and Shahram Shahpareh, and the young ones, such as Arash, aren’t any better. But inside Iran, without official permission, without an easy revenue stream, are musicians that are not only performing music better, but their lyrics also show the gulf that exists between Iranians within and Iranians outside.

    Arash, biggest Iranian pop star outside of Iran, in the west sings,
    “Come and get some of this sex love and rock and roll
    Come on, baby, get out of control
    Baby, I was made to be a legend, legend
    Baby, just roll the dice, the lucky seven, seven
    Tonight I’mma take you all the way to heaven, heaven
    Baby just stick with me, stick with me
    I’m what you need, I’m your VIP-o”

    While biggest rap artist, Yas, raps in his “Sarbaze Vatan” (Soldier of the Nation”, has lines such as, “adam hamishe to mahdudiyat ha setare mishe” (people always become stars in restrictions) or
    “miduni man maser ro goftehaye pisham // you know I am insistent on what I’ve said
    doshmanaye ma dalile ofte ma nemishan // our enemies will never bring us down
    khoftehaye dishab hala bidar tarinan // last nights dreams are now wide awake
    hame dar ghofl bood man az divar paridam // all the doors were locked, I jumped over the wall”

    In the middle of the rap, the song suddenly stops, and Yas says,”yek lahze vaysta bebinam engar seda ghat shod // wait a minute, I think we lost the sound”
    but it doesn’t matter, because,
    “mohem nist bedune beat mirim man o to // it’s not important, you and I will go on without a beat
    bebin ta vaghte paye bashi vaseye paya man // as long as you’re standing by me
    beat zood khodesho miresoone ba sedaye man // the beat will catch up with my voice”

    Or compare the songs that came out when Iran went for the World Cup. Search for Andy, from Los Angeles, singing his tribute with Melli Poosha, a shitty, silly, pop song, and compare it to a homeground pop artist, Amir Tataloo, who is no poet genius singing silly pop songs early in his life, but his tribute is called “Manam Yeki az Un Yazda Tam” (I am one of those 11).

    Anyway, this post was long, because I didn’t want to waste posts if we have a limit, but let me say this. Iran, for the first time in a long time, is giving birth to hundreds of thousands of talent in various fields. Some will leave, that is certain and always happens until the nation becomes #1 in the world, but the rate of talent is increasing at such a high rate, that even if some leave, enough are staying and builing the country, that we have finally moved the country towards progress in a way not seen in Iran in a long time. Iranians can stay and get their hands dirty and help out by laying brick on a brick, or they can make fun of us from far away. Either way, we are moving on.

  37. M.Ali says:

    Ugh. Here is something else I have to reply to.

    Nasser, you said,

    “Like Mr Smith has written before, they managed to waste over a trillion dollars of oil revenues on importing stupid consumer goods, Chinese toys, and cheap water melons instead of investing in semiconductor fabrication foundries for example and other such strategic manufacturing facilities.”

    I read this before, and didnt waste time on it, but it seems it is becoming established knowledge now. Again, this same argument is heard in Iran too, so it is not unique to you geniuses.

    But it makes no business sense.

    See, the trillions of oil dollars does not go to a specific company who has two buying decisions to make with this money,

    a) importing stupid consumer goods, Chinese toys, and cheap water melons
    b) investing in semiconductor fabrication foundries

    That’s not how the economy works!

    For example, lets look at “stupid consumer goods”. Lets look at one particular reallys stupid good on purpose. I don’t know, whats something useless we can think of? Let’s say cute looking covers for your iphone. Not much utility, doesn’t save lives, and doesn’t do much for the security of the nation.

    Okay, what happens here? What happens is a businessman has a certain amount of money. He looks at this market, realizes that certain segment of the population is willing to pay for this, and finds a profit making opportunity. He uses his money to import these items and sells it. He makes a profit.

    Now, there is no OR option here which would indicate that the businessmen would instead invest his money in researching semiconductor fabrication foundries. What do you propose? That the government confiscate the money of the businessman, kick his butt, and use his money to invest in researching semiconductor fabrication foundries?

    It’s the same with chinese toys. Same with cheap watermelon. Hundreds of thousands of businessmen are using their money to do business (like every businessman ever). Some are exporting, some are importing. Some are investing in the stock markets. Some buy and sell property. The only way your statement makes any sense is if the government takes all their money and does whatever the fuck it wants with them.

  38. M.Ali says:

    Another lever,

    “In Iran kids can not even dream of such support. I was thinking, wouldn’t it be a nice idea, instead of licking the bottom of this French company or that Chinese trader, and spending money on corruption and nepotism, afew billion dollars would be set aside to build 3D printing labs in every fvckingg town in Iran? Then give only 10 to 25 years old kids full access to these labs. Let them design and print whatever sh!t comes to their minds. Let them play for 10 years. No limit. No bureaucracy. No sifting for religiosity. No nepotism. Hang all those who try to interfere with this project along with their families.”

    It’s like this forum is full of children.

    HERE, I CAN DO THE SAME THING. Here are my TOP TEN ideas for a better Iran. Iran’s government is free to use them.

    1) To make Iran win the next world cup. Spend billions on having the best facilities in the world. Bring in top notch coaches and scounts and football experts from abroad to train our guys. Send scouts to every village in Iran. Select 100,000 of the best. Train them 24/7 by giving them the best equipment, exercise plan, food diet, and cutting edge technology. Choose the very best 11 out of those to become Iranian National Team. Program the best software for analysising each game to formulate best strategy & playing technique for opposing teams, being supported by a professional, highly paid team of scientists.

    2) To reduce transportation time in Iran. Spend trillions on upgrade the road network. Start with Tehran. Make hundreds of tunnels and bridges in the city. This reduces traffic duh. Now, do the same in all the cities. Solved? Okay, while this is being done, more roads between the cities. All wrongs to be big and wide. No one lane. Minimum four lanes all over Iran. Take the current number of roads, multiply it by 1000. That’s what we are aiming for. Done? Not on your life. More airports. There are currently, I think, 100 airports in Iran? Pfft. What is this, the stone ages? Increase the number to 50,000 airports. More airports, more travel, more travel, means more business. Every child knows that. Solved. Railway to be increased and upgraded. Metro everywhere. More buses. Trams. And is it really that difficult to invest a few billions to make flying cars to reduce traffic?

    3) Reduce pollution. Invest money in new technology. New technology should take the bad pollution and turn into sweet smelling air that is good for our health, manhood, and hair. 500,000 college kids to work on this. Budget: No limit, because once this is invented, we can sell it to the rest of the world, and get back our money, easy peasy.

    4) Security. Bajillions to be spend on military to create Uber Nukes, 1000 times stronger than any nuke currently existing. Repulicate Wall of Chine around Iran, but with robotic soldiers with lasers.

    5) Robocops! Speaking of which. Robocops. The film Robocop to be studied carefully, to reverse engineer the technology. We already have so many handicapped vets, ready to be made into Robocops.

    6) Acid Attacks: Invent special face cream for women. This budget is only 90 billion, but can be done. Cream makes the skin of women younger AND, wait for it, wait for it, REPELS ACID ATTACKS. Maniac throws acid on women’s face, cream protects face, acid bounces back, and hits the attacker. Attacker is burnt. Justic done. I can draw this in a three panel comic if you think it will help get this project going on.

    7) Stop corruption: Pay every civil servant million dollars a month to reduce tempetation to steal. If they still do steal, give them Anti-Corruption Pill. Patent pending.

    8) Bricklayers: Too many bricklayers in Iran. Invent brick that is edible. Send bricklayers to Africa. Hunger solved, Iran proclaimed World Hero. Bricklayer Day celebrated every year.

    9) Reverse Engineered Team: Keep aside Centillion dollars for this. It’s a bit expensive, but worth it. Trust me. Have a highly smart team located deep underground that can reverse engineer ANYTHING. And I mean, ANYTHING. Western technology? Reverse engineered in 5 minutes, piece of cake. Piece of cake? Reverse engineered in 30 second. Plants, animals, human brain, soul, big bang, happiness, that feeling you get when you are holding it for long and finally go the bathroom and go ahhhhh, nostalgia, deja vu, teal, the number 8, being late for a meeting, wet dreams, all of these can easily be reverse engineered by this team. They can also reverse engineer reverse engineering but will take much longer, maybe 2 days, and not recommended.

    10) Reduce ignorance in the world. Inject everyone with a special liquid. This causes people who talk shit to literally talk shit. That is, whenever they say something that is bullshit, what would happen is when they open their mouth, actual SHIT COMES OUT instead of words. After once or twice of them nearly chocking on their own feces, ignorant people will think much harder before talking shit. Actually, ignore everything else, let’s just invent this.

  39. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    October 31, 2014 at 11:24 pm

    The spirit of curiosity and exploration has been lacking for centuries outside of the Western European states (and later, North America).

    Watching the movie “Kon Tiki”, I was struck by the spirit of curiosity and exploration in search of Truth exhibited by the late Norwegian explorer Thorn Heyerdahl.

    Consider, a man from poor European country, almost immediately after the end of World War II and the end of occupation of his country; propose to travel from South America to Polynesia in a primitive wooden raft to prove a hypothesis regarding the migrations of an ancient and alien people who had nothing to do with his own country and tradition.

    No doubt, many people all over the world would have considered him to be mad, yet there were others in US and elsewhere who did not find him mad and recognized and valued his spirit of curiosity and exploration.

    Do you think a Japanese, an Indian, or an Iranian would even undertake such an endeavor?

    Another illustration: the late Heinrich Schliemann who discovered the ancient city of Troy in spite of all the ridicule. He established the partial truth of Homeric legends.

    Why is there no Iranian or Afghan searching for the burial place of Rustam?

  40. Persian Gulf says:

    Amir says:
    November 1, 2014 at 3:35 am

    Brother, he is a lost soul. no doubt about it. what else do you expect from him. don’t wast your precious time in answering such an arrogant/ignorant creature. let him talk and expose himself more. at some point, however, he should be band from commenting here as his often false claims are insulting and fall into the category of propaganda and demonization. his words about Iranian universities, professors, …the technical knowledge… make people with first hand experience laugh.

    On the other hand it was amazing to see the level of pessimism in the streets of Iran regarding the nuclear deal in my very recent trip. and the realization that Daesh (ISIS, IS…) is a problem created by the west, for the west and its regional allies that can’t be dealt with only air strikes. the level of astuteness of common Iranian men/women is amazing. Mr.Khamenei should ignore Zarif and the co at the time when the populace is realizing the upper hand Iran is gaining in the region. Gone are the days when Iranian society was expecting magic from a nuclear compromise.

  41. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    November 1, 2014 at 9:49 am

    The fault is elsewhere – you cannot use him and people like him; harnessing their energy, intelligence, knowledge and enthusiasm.

  42. kooshy says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    November 1, 2014 at 9:49 am

    PG- when I had these band of AH Israeli trolls exposed, you was wondering why, now you know why, after so long on this forum we all know.

    These three AH Israeli ass leakers are already exposed, for rest of it’s fun to play the Whac-A-Mole or in this case Whac-A-Troll with them and keep the site active.

  43. kooshy says:

    Amir Jaan – if I were you I wouldn’t worry about the warmup act’s internal conflictions, future uncertainty takes one off the tracks, especially when a Zio like him feels the very same bricklayers he demonized all along are pulling off the bricks he was firmly standing on. Zios like him are feeling the pain for their uncertainty, in an existential fight for future of their beloved 65 year investment, for them these are due to, and blamed, all on Iran. So when the Zio can’t say what his real problem is, he turns and tries to point at everything and anything, he can find wrong with what he thinks has created his problem. To make it short in Pure Persian Sugar this called “Koonsuzie”. So don’t worry for him let him do his groggy complains, like for the GAV, just when he is going too off of the tracks, use that pointed stick on the back.

  44. Nasser says:


    Once more I will ignore the insults you have hurled at me and try to address the substance of your arguments.

    Regarding your first post, I will begin by saying that ensuring security and protecting borders is the most fundamental duty of the state. The Iranian government has devoted far too few resources to protecting its most sensitive border regions. There is no evidence that they are “working very hard” to solve something that already inflicts Iran with an influx of drugs, terrorists, and an assortment of criminals and now you even have Wahabi inspired fanatics from Pakistan trying to transverse Iran to get to Syria for a chance to kill Shias there. There is no evidence to support your claim that the government is hard at work to solve this very serious problem that could turn into a nightmare tomorrow. Instead, the Iranian government has posted poorly trained and even more poorly equipped conscripts to deal with this “problem,” showing just how much priority they assign to this issue. Mr Smith’s proposal was not outlandish as you would have yourself and others believe and your excuse that it would be costly and difficult to implement is a very poor excuse. Your comparison of this serious issue with Iran’s football performance, petty criminality like acid attacks (and I didn’t even understand the bit about musicians) just further goes to show that you guys don’t even want to admit that there is a serious problem that merits attention and those like me that say otherwise are according to you are either just panicky scaremongers or more akin to what was that you said, a football hooligan grumbling about the performance of his favorite sports team.

    On your second post, you mention that some of what we propose regarding Iranian industrialization makes no commercial sense strictly speaking and that is why no private entity would ever fund those ventures (not that Iranian private entities even have that much capital). Well you are absolutely right on that point! No seriously, I completely agree. My argument was precisely that only the state can fund the development costs for these strategic industries. Even countries like the United States, Russia and the East Asian countries would not have successfully industrialized without state support and very many critical industries even in those advanced countries would still not exist without government subsidization. Would Iran have had a nuclear program without the state funding its development; would Iran have had a space program had it not been for the state financing the project; hell would Iran even have whatever bit of auto industry it has otherwise? Would a company like MAPNA have come about unless the government deemed it important that it did exist? Iranians would be without electricity today otherwise. The government sure enough understood the importance of keeping that from happening; so why can’t they have the same foresight when it comes to other strategic industries?!

    By the way, nowhere in my posts have I argued that Iran must master the latest and greatest technologies and could manage to catch up to developed countries in a short time frame. We have only talked about technologies that are decades old (and propulsion and aviation technologies of the 50s and 60s) and it is already hard enough convincing you lot of the necessity of those. I also find it revealing that you consider using tax money and oil revenue to fund vital state projects to mean harassment of private businessmen. Your definition of independence must mean the right to be diplomatically rude to Westerners, making loud pronouncements of self-sufficiency, while begging them for everything you use and depend on for functioning of your life. Honestly speaking, I find your comments and general attitude that is prevalent amongst many Iranians including the government to be very puzzling. For a country so under sanctions, Iran and Iranians like you seem to have a remarkable amount of faith in global supply chains and transnational laissez faire capitalism.

  45. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali,

    “10) Reduce ignorance in the world. Inject everyone with a special liquid. This causes people who talk shit to literally talk shit. That is, whenever they say something that is bullshit, what would happen is when they open their mouth, actual SHIT COMES OUT instead of words. After once or twice of them nearly chocking on their own feces, ignorant people will think much harder before talking shit. Actually, ignore everything else, let’s just invent this.”


  46. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Notice how bitch after months of waiting still owes us a clear definition of “culture” which he with his superior intelligence identified as Iran’s main problem.

    Apparently not so genius as to be able to give us a working definition of his central concept.

    Like I said, a barrage of info, much of it “borrowed” from other sources, not much original thought on anything.


  47. nahid says:

    BRAVO Amir, Persian golf, kooshy and bussed_in_bassiji

  48. kooshy says:

    M.Ali says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:34 am

    Like what Ayatollah Khamenei has to constantly remind the different factions in Iran “Enteghad Sazandeh” Constructive Criticism is necessary, healthy and good for any (Poya) forward looking society, but once one encounters and realizes that the Criticism is not meant to be guiding and constructive, but rather is meant for “Takhrib” demonizing and destruction (like what these three Israeli AH intend to do) then it should and needs to be confronted with all means and at national level.

    For their “koonsozie” here is some wonderful stuff Iranian were doing for last 800 years

  49. kooshy says:

    Contrary to what the Zio fyd claims and wants you to believe IN REALITY “a Muslim IS not secure in his person any where in US or Europe ” exactly in the very seat of the UN, meaning the city of New York.

    “People demand justice after Muslim was attacked for Hijab”

  50. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Merriam-Webster’s definition:

    adjective \ˌsäf-ˈmȯr-ik, -ˈmär- also ˌsȯf- or ˌsä-fə- or ˌsȯ-fə-\

    : having or showing a lack of emotional maturity : foolish and immature

    : conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature

  51. M.Ali says:


    “Once more I will ignore the insults you have hurled at me and try to address the substance of your arguments.”

    Nasser, it would be nice if you don’t insult us too, thanks.

    Regarding your post about security.

    You mention things like, “There is no evidence that they are “working very hard” to solve something that already inflicts Iran with an influx of drugs, terrorists, and an assortment of criminals and now you even have Wahabi inspired fanatics from Pakistan trying to transverse Iran to get to Syria for a chance to kill Shias there.”

    Why do you claim this? Not doing enough does not mean not doing anything.

    You go on about reducing Iran’s efforts, and say things like, “There is no evidence to support your claim that the government is hard at work to solve this very serious problem ” and “the Iranian government has posted poorly trained and even more poorly equipped conscripts to deal with this “problem,”

    You are making broad judgements on something you know little about and are reducing all the effort to zero, like all Iranians are doing are playing with their little cocks and its only Smith & Nasser who know the importance that border security deserves.

    And you then say something like, ” Mr Smith’s proposal was not outlandish as you would have yourself and others believe and your excuse that it would be costly and difficult to implement is a very poor excuse. ”

    I actually posted in detail how this is not easy. It is not only extremely expensive to implement Smith’s idea on a border that is more than 2000 km long, I used USA’s example as a budgetary guideline, and then showed, again using USA’s border with Mexico as an example, to show even with the high budget USA has on this, it still doesn’t stop illegal immigrants.

    We can go in great detail on this using various sources to discuss in depth how much it would cost to secure 2000 km of land and how likely it is bring illegal activities to zero with this. You guys act like it is easy. We are not saying its not important, people like me just say IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS EITHER DOING IT OR NOT DOING IT.

    In regards to second point, you completely miss the point. I did not say we shouldn’t tax private business. I only talked about your comment, “they managed to waste over a trillion dollars of oil revenues on importing stupid consumer goods, Chinese toys, and cheap water melons instead of investing in semiconductor fabrication foundries for example and other such strategic manufacturing facilities.”

    Can you see how this is different than, you saying, “I also find it revealing that you consider using tax money and oil revenue to fund vital state projects to mean harassment of private businessmen.”

    I am not saying not to tax businessmen. Tax them, use oil revenue, but I’m saying it is simplistic AND WRONG to say “they managed to waste over a trillion dollars of oil revenues on importing stupid consumer goods, Chinese toys, and cheap water melons instead of investing in semiconductor fabrication foundries for example and other such strategic manufacturing facilities”.

    Do you understand why this statement is wrong? Its not about taxes. When I talked about businessmen, it wasn’t a commentary about western capitalism. Nothing complicated like that.

    ONLY THAT when you say something like “”they managed to waste over a trillion dollars of oil revenues on importing stupid consumer goods, Chinese toys, and cheap water melons instead of investing in semiconductor fabrication foundries for example and other such strategic manufacturing facilities” you are claiming that the importers had the choice of either importing those items or investing them in semiconductor fabrication foundries AND I gave examples to say those two are not connected.

    You can talk about tax, you can talk about channeling oil revenue into different streams, but to claim that the oil money is used to import Chinese toys instead of R&D is just silly, business those are two different groups.

    Again, let me repeat one thing ONE MORE TIME, I am not saying there is no problem, nor am I saying there shouldn’t be solutions, but I’m saying throwing out simplified one-sentence solutions is akin to being a football fan shouting useless tactics at the screen, thinking only you have the answer.

  52. M.Ali says:


    “Contrary to what the Zio fyd claims and wants you to believe IN REALITY “a Muslim IS not secure in his person any where in US or Europe ” exactly in the very seat of the UN, meaning the city of New York.”

    The best evidence that Muslims are not satisfied in the west is the huge numbers of Muslims willing to join ISIS. Imagine the level of dissatisfaction a Muslim youth feels in the west, to leave all that comfort and security aside, and be ready to join a rag tag team of terrorists. It doesn’t matter if armchair liberal neo-muslims are happy, when something so critical wrong exists.

  53. Persian Gulf says:

    fyi says:
    November 1, 2014 at 10:20 am

    I am surprised of you taking his seemingly BS claims for granted. his words are affront to my hard working profs and friends back in Iran. he talks about every technical issue with the level of certainty that an expert in that field won’t. fields that he is obviously not an expert in. it’s a good thing that he is staying out of the country. people like him are no good for the progress of the country. someone that has done NOTHING for his country and probably can’t work there for mere few months can’t lecture others how to run affairs out there.

    Frankly, I am very suspicious of his real intentions here. if he doesn’t have a hidden agenda and is not paid for what he does here, he is definitely a crackpot and needs therapy.

  54. James Canning says:

    China prefers stability in the Gulf and seeks a reasonable deal between Iran and the P5+1.

  55. James Canning says:

    In a leader (editorial) today, the Financial Times calls upon the US to stop protecting Israel at the UN regarding the growing illegal Jewish colonies in the occupied West Bank (Palestine).

  56. James Canning says:


    Are you claiming the P5+1 will not accept Iran’s building missiles able to launch satellites into space?

  57. James Canning says:


    In the previous thread, you were unhappy I pointed out that Israel would like to see Iran receive a good bashing. My point is that Obama would much prefer to avoid war with Iran, but that such a war is favored by many supporters of Israel in the US.

  58. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    November 1, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    I find Mr. Smith’s technical statements to be informative and accurate. He points out to concrete & actionable activities that people can undertake to address issues that he is discussing.

    I do not approve of his more extreme pronouncements but he is clearly a man of intelligence & knowledge that Iranians cannot use; they do not know how top harness people like him.

    Iran is not a rich country in material or human resources but her leaders – at all levels – behave as though they are Americans – who can afford to be wasteful of both men and material resources.

  59. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    November 1, 2014 at 11:42 am

    On a personal level, much of the portraiture of Iranians and Iranian culture in the book Haji Baba of Isfahan by the late James Morier is still valid, in my opinion.

    On the governmental level, a persistent political idea for more than a thousand years has been the idea of “Justice” and the duty of the government (in the absence of a theory of state) being its administration.

    So, after the Iranian Revolution, the new government went about dispensing social justice; in practice trying to distribute social goods.

    One such social good is water; which the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran makes available at subsidized rates to the Iranian population. This attempt at Justice through government largess, in turn, has created distortions: 80 percent of water is used by Iranian agriculture sector which contributes 13% of GNP.

    With the persistent draught of the last 20 years – with no end in sight – this has led to negative consequences such as damage to the ecology of the Lake Urumiyah basin or the drying up of Zayandeh Rood in Isfahan.)

    I think the most important issue is not if this or that policy causes a problem – they inevitably do so – as has been amply demonstrated through human history.

    [Does anyone here except Mr. Canning knows anything about the “Sheep Eating Men” episode of English history?]

    I think the most important thing is the ability to think rationally about resolving issues when they are discovered and then having the courage and the persistence to alter course.

    I have lately come to the conclusion that the Islamic Republic of Iran is the only chance that Muslims all over the world have to retrofit their civilization and their polities with the fruits of the labors of the Western Civilization.

  60. fyi says:

    M.Ali says:

    November 1, 2014 at 1:22 pm

    The recent acid attacks in Isfahan may or may not have anything to do with the Muslim duty of “Amr be Ma’aroof”.

    But the perception is that those attacks were inspired by Islam and were carried out by Muslim zealots.

    After all, does not the Islamic System, at every turn, encourage vigilance against the “bad-hejab”?

    In Iran after the Islamic Revolution, in Afghanistan after the victory of Taliban, in areas now controlled by ISIS, among the Muslim Brotherhood, the foremost thing and the first thing is always the same: send the thugs to force Muslim women & girls to cover themselves.

    Hejab is treated as the highest expression of religiosity – it is the foremost principle of Islam.

    That is why Mr. Erdogan, Mr. Gul, and Mr. Devlatoghlou – all with their wives and daughters and daughter-in-laws in scarves – have no problem ruining the lives of Muslims in Syria and now in Iraq.

    Under the US Uniform Code of Military Justice, any member of armed services of the United States of any rank, at any given time and place, can bring charges against any officer, flag office, non-commissioned officer, or soldier for the violations of that code.

    That is how “Amr be Ma’aroof” works in one part of the United States.

    One would and could hope that now that the Majlis has taken up the task of writing laws governing “Amr be Ma’aroof” clause of the Iranian Constitution; they would include the right of any Iranian citizen to bring charges against any government official at any level at any time and place.

    For 3000 years, government officials have been unaccountable to the people of the Iranian plateau; let us hope that we would see a change.

    [I am personally pessimistic: “Have you abused or otherwise accosted a poor Muslim woman today? Nothing is as exhilarating as humiliating a Muslim woman in public because of her hejab!”]

  61. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Well when it turns out that the acid attacks were done by western intelligence operatives/patsies or by “emotionally immature” boys who were rejected by the girls (doesn’t Smith fit that profile?) I guess your whole “theory” will collapse won’t it?

    The problem is Iranians willing to kill and mame their fellow Iranians for a few thousand dollars and a green card, right?

    Is it “society’s fault” that they do this?

    As someone with religious like belief in individualism and individual responsibility the answer should be clear to you, shouldn’t it?

  62. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    I’m happy to see you are a believer in the Islamic Republic despite your back-handed compliment.

    Western civilization is dying and Islamic civilization with Iran at its center is the future.

    We’re building it over here while you are slowing dying with your beloved western civilization over there.

    You are welcome to return your homeland anytime you choose.

  63. masoud says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 1, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    what is this about ganji and acid attacks?

  64. Persian Gulf says:


    It’s very revealing that this guy does not understand, with all his genuineness, that what was going to transpire Iran into a Syria scenario was his green movement fantasies and not small scale border infiltration. Big events occurred in a so little time frame in less than a decade that the likes of him became easily exposed to the general populace.

    It was interesting to see ,a couple of weeks ago in Tehran, that a friend of mine, who used to passionately participate in the election aftermath demonstrations (cheered and fueled from the U.S by Nasser and Co) arguing that his actions have partly brought more sanction that is affecting his own life.

  65. kooshy says:

    Now days not even an American is “secure in his person” in the world center of democracy New York, not will all Kramat Ensanie that our residence Zio “FYD”and company can find in their beloved west.

    Ex-CIA analyst and activist Ray McGovern arrested in NYC

    In the last thread the Zio FYD when he became cornered and couldn’t deny civilizational achievements of Iranians, he commented (meant to me) by the usual and typical cliché run out of argument end sentence of the expatriates which is

    گیرم پدر تو بود فاضل،
    از فضل پدر تو را چه حاصل

    Now is time to have some fun and respond by playing our all-star game of “whack a troll”, here we go

    Well surly If any benefit one can learn and get from his father/ancestors, that should be “dignity” or what is called the art of having humanity = which is what our resident Zio brags about, the good old “ Karamat e Ensani” yes Karamat e Ensani, that is to learn not to throw one’s dignity for as he admitted a while back for his own “Martial Benefit” in return for support of an apartheid state run by baby killers in Israel.

  66. Nasser says:

    M.Ali says: November 1, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    “Why do you claim this? Not doing enough does not mean not doing anything.”

    – You can gauge how much importance one assigns to an issue by observing the amount of energy and resources one is actually willing to devote to that issue. So my claim that Iran doesn’t seem to judge its eastern border situation to be an important enough problem is completely valid.

    “You are making broad judgements on something you know little about and are reducing all the effort to zero, like all Iranians are doing are playing with their little cocks and its only Smith & Nasser who know the importance that border security deserves…. I actually posted in detail how this is not easy. It is not only extremely expensive to implement Smith’s idea on a border that is more than 2000 km long, I used USA’s example as a budgetary guideline, and then showed, again using USA’s border with Mexico as an example, to show even with the high budget USA has on this, it still doesn’t stop illegal immigrants.”

    – Actually, it is you that seem to be misinformed on these issues. Walls have always been used successfully to keep out enemies; it has worked for the Chinese in the ancient past, it is working for Israel now and will work for Iran in the future.

    Regarding the United States, making any comparison of that country’s strategic situation to that of Iran is just silly. Also, I don’t know if you have spent any time in the US but if you did you would realize just how much its economy benefits from those illegal aliens. Do you realize how many construction projects, small businesses and farms would stop functioning without such supply of cheap labor? Business and strategic leaders of the US know this and thus have no interest in actually wasting money in “sealing its borders.” The only reason you hear conservative American politicians make periodic noises about their desire to actually control their southern border is because such influx of illegals are unpopular amongst many ordinary citizenry in the southern and border states. You will find that it is usually some bands of armed private citizens of certain political persuasion that are the ones trying to do the patrolling. But such views are not consistent with those of enough Americans and powerful business lobbies for the United States government to make an actual meaningful effort in sealing its border. Once again, you can gauge just how much importance one assigns to an issue by observing their actual actions and the amount of resources they seem willing to devote to that issue. (If you can spare the time maybe you can watch an episode of the American comedy show South Park entitled “The Last of the Meheecans” for a hilarious portrayal of this matter.)

    Now on to Mr Smith’s proposal; everything he recommended is within the capability of the Iranian government to do. His cost estimate for the initial construction of the fortifications seems to be entirely reasonable. Furthermore, all the material and equipment he called for (except for air assets) are not that technically challenging to produce and thus can be manufactured domestically and should not result in any foreign currency expenditure. So even if there are cost overruns it wouldn’t burden the state that much and it certainly would not hurt the pocket books of cheap water melon and iphone cover importers.

    – Regarding the second half of your comment; I was hoping you would have answered my question as to why is it Iranians like you seem to have so much faith in international trade and foreign supply source for your most vital goods? Many Iranians seem to realize that we cannot rely on imported enriched uranium from Russia or France or Argentina so why can’t you apply that same logic to other strategic industries as well? The most polite and generous and academic one can be with words would be to say that the Iranian government has massively misallocated its available resources. Before the sanctions on Iranian Central Bank were enacted, Iran was earning $100 billion a year from its energy sales. With a decade of such sales, that is over a trillion dollars. It was up to the government to decide how to spend these foreign currency earnings. Just think they didn’t even use that money to increase refining capacity until Western states made a public commitment to sanctioning Iran’s gasoline imports. When Western governments are pledging their commitment to starve your population the very last thing you should use your foreign currency on is in importing Maseratis, iphone covers and cheap watermelons so politically connected traders can get rich or because of a misplaced belief in Ricardian economics. Would the average Iranian citizen be better off had his country been self sufficient in producing the most vital medicines domestically rather than using that same money to import the same medicine from some foreign supplier (who one day decides he is too scared of American sanctions and thus cuts off supplies) just so some Iranian importers can get rich? Never mind any comparison to developed Western nations, a trillion dollars is a gargantuan sum, couldn’t Iran have used a fraction of that money to be half as good as Malaysia in electronics and micro electronics, or half as good as India in IT, or make Khodra half as good as Tata Motors. If non western firms were unwilling to transfer technology to Iran, couldn’t Iran have paid double, triple for those desired items, instead of using that money on consumer discretionary items which are by definition non essential? If not, then even how about using some of that money on buying used equipment to ramp up production, if foreign firms were unwilling to supply Iran with the latest and greatest? What is wrong are your attempts to excuse such behavior! And what is your excuse anyway, that people in positions of power have it hard enough already with all that responsibility and ordinary people like me can never understand the complexities they have to deal with? If you actually believed the concerns I raise are serious enough you would have never said something like that.

  67. Rehmat says:

    I suggest both Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett should listen to their fellow American Jewish writer and radio talk-show host Stephen Lendman, who said: “No matter how much president Rouhani try to please United States over country’s nuclear program – America will come up with new excuse to bring a pro-Israel regime change in Iran.”

  68. Empty says:


    Good to see your posts. RE: “The problem is Iranians willing to kill and mame their fellow Iranians for a few thousand dollars and a green card, right?”

    Well, on a daily basis in LA, Boston, Chicago, and many more places, Americans seem to be willing to do it for a pair of sneakers or a fancy iJunk several times a day (and night). Every few years, bigger Americans kill and maim 5000+ of their fellow Americans in tall buildings and military installations for more money, cheap oil, and a fantasy of world domination.

  69. Empty says:

    M. Ali,

    Good one (on your 10-point suggestions). I agree with BiB, the 10th one was pretty good.

  70. Empty says:

    To all free people of the world:

    Condolences on Muharram and the martyrdom of the true leader of all free humans on earth, Imam Hussain (Salamollah va salavatehoo alayh).

    امام حسین (عليه السلام) : به ابن عباس فرمود : درباره چیزی که به تو مربوط نیست سخن مگو ، زیرا می ترسم به گناه دچار شوی ، درباره چیزی که مربوط به تو است نیز صحبت مکن ، مگر بدانی جای صحبت کردن است ، بسا از گویندگان که به حق سخن گفته اند ولی سرزنش شده اند. با دو کس بحث و جدال مکن ، شخص حلیم ، و شخص نادان . حلیم تو را عصبانی میکند و نادان اذیتت میکند ، در پشت سر برادر مومن خود همان چیزی بگو که دوست داری او پشت سر تو بگوید. چنان عمل کن همانند کسی که میداند از جرائمش بازخواستش میکنند و پاداش کارهای نیکش را میدهند. بحارالانوار جلد 17 ( جلد 2 صفحه 116 )

    [Translation/Interpretation – From Imam Hussain (a.s.) to Ibn Abbas: “Do not speak about a matter that should not be your concern for I fear it might lead you to sin. On matters that are your concern, too, do not speak unless you know it’s the appropriate time and place to do so; so many have spoken the truth but have been blamed for it.”

    “Do not get into arguments with two types of people: a person who is very patient and a person who is ignorant. A patient opponent would irritate you and an ignorant opponent would create hardship for you.”

    “In the absence of your believing brother [behind his back] speak of him in a manner you would like him to speak of you.”

    “Behave in a way that you know you’ll be interrogated and prosecuted for your bad deeds and be rewarded for your good deeds.”

    From Behar ol-Anvar, Volume 2, Page 116.

  71. M.Ali says:


    I think it is challenging to debate with you because I find we are not on the same wavelength on several very important and simple economical points. I also find that when I come up with actual numbers & facts, it is brushed aside. For example, in the previous thread, when it comes to America’s border with Mexico and the budget for it, I went and researched it and posted with actual numbers, and you justs simplify by saying that “You will find that it is usually some bands of armed private citizens of certain political persuasion that are the ones trying to do the patrolling.”, when I actually posted the actual dollar figures.

    I tried to mention twice the difference of private businesses importing goods & government budgets, and how those two are not directly related, you again say, “When Western governments are pledging their commitment to starve your population the very last thing you should use your foreign currency on is in importing Maseratis, iphone covers and cheap watermelons so politically connected traders can get rich or because of a misplaced belief in Ricardian economics. ”

    I don’t know where to start on this, because we have to go back and back and discuss simple economic points.

    So let’s scratch everything, and lets start from the basics.

    First part of the discussion:
    1) Do you agree that a government’s budget is not infinite?
    2) Do you understand the concept of cost-benefit anaylsis and do you agree that it should be applied by governments in making decisions?
    3) Do you agree that producing something locally still needs a budget ?

    Second part of the discussion:
    1) Do you agree that the total sum of capital owned by private businesses for importing goods is seperate from total sum of capital owned by the government from oil revenue?

    I think we are stuck on these simples points, and without these, we can’t have a fruitful discussion.

  72. Persian Gulf says:

    Apart from the over size of the government (with more than 4 million official employees and growing due to the opening of new developmental projects. I think I read somewhere that nearly 60% of the budget goes toward salaries), the main fault of Iran’s governing system lies in an improper taxation. That denies the government from internal revenue and forces it to rely on oil money (the more oil dollar comes in the more pressure would be on lowering exchange rate due to supply and demand which makes outside consumer goods cheaper than the one produced inside). this is the money that goes to the hands of private entities per M.Ali’s claim. under the condition of dollar hegemony a government does not have absolutely free hands in financing internal projects. nearly one third of the total oil revenue in Ahmadinejad’s period was spent on Maskane Mehr (a fundamentally good thing that provided home to millions of Iranians in the lower income segment of the society), based on the first report published by Rouhani’s government. and nearly 100 billion or so was blocked due to the sanction. and nearly 80 billion was still in the Zakhir Arzi account by the end of that period. a big portion of Iran’s external debt was also paid off during that period. I think the total import per year was standing below 40 billion during Ahmadinejad’s time. that included essential goods (drought…) and manufacturing stuff necessary to run existing industries. It does not seem that the government, without all its flaws, could embark on too many major industrial projects the same way as it did on nuclear program without running a very high inflation or borrowing from external sources which would have been unwise and unavailable.

  73. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    November 2, 2014 at 8:22 am

    If the Iranian government cannot embark on too many major industrial projects; then it should get out of the way and let the private sector do so – rather than following on this path of Hand-out Socialism – a.k.a. Islamic Economics – that has habituated millions of people to being beggars.

  74. M.Ali says:

    Thanks, PS, for the extra data.

    For the information of anyone interested, IRI is understanding the importance of tax revenue in a nation and insufficient foundations in the country, and obviously resistance to tax monitoring (ahh, the difficulties of a democratic system) is slowing the changes. But this is going on. We are faced with stricter and stricter tax monitoring at our company every year. The VAT is also increasing on a yearly basis. This year was 8%, last year was 6%, before that I think was 4%, and so on. Lively debates are being had on additional taxes, such as extra taxes on empty houses and apartment flats, which was supposed to be implemented, but has been delayed.

  75. Persian Gulf says:

    fyi says:
    November 2, 2014 at 8:52 am

    What you say is generally correct. but in Iran’s case, under constant outside harassment and plots, there are fields that should be solely on the hands of the government. we are talking about some strategic sectors such as nuclear program, aerospace, IT….that need large scale investment. and we have seen how vulnerable the government can be in some of these sectors. Had the government not controlled the internet and phone, Mr. Nasser and friends (as you well know) could have instigated a coup against the elected government (a president that has got the most votes in the whole history of Iran).

    On the other hand fields like automotive, even productions of commodities such as steel, aluminum… could be left for the private sector. there are however reservation on some of these as well. you may probably be aware that even on basic commodities Iran is denied access too. Margarine steel, some special grades f aluminum…to name a few (one of the martyrs of nuclear program was killed as he was trying to bring the technology in one of these fields).

    The private sector in Iran is not very strong though. and often, under the manufactured crisis, would like to have a safe foot outside of the country as you are well aware. just last night one of the nieces of Mr.Karoubi (to whom his brother reads Rouze in Mohharram) had a huge hallowing party, everything paid for probably more than 500 people, in her huge house in the U.S. Left to the private sector theft like this is the outcome regrettably.
    the private sector of Iran has a great tendency toward imperialism. this basically makes people from being dependent on the government to real slaves of these entities. a slavery worst than the ancient time.

  76. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    November 2, 2014 at 9:31 am

    There will always be abuses, but one cannot “hame ra be yek choob rand”.

    That is where the Law comes in.

    Private sector is where human liberty and individual initiative have scope to be exercised.

    Even in strategic industries, one would hope, some activities could be privatized.

    Mindless men who are marking time until retirement from government services are useless to themselves and to the country.

  77. James Canning says:


    Obama is not seeking “regime change” in Iran. Many supporters of Israel in the US do seek regime change in Iran. Big difference.

  78. Rehmat says:

    @Karl – Shia-Sunni conflict is very old in India, going back to 12th century.

    But, why Jewish soldiers attack unarmed Jewish women near the Holy Wailing Wall in modern Israel?

  79. Rehmat says:

    Israeli-born writer, author and musician, Gilad Atzmon, on September 14, 2013, once again urged Tehran to acquire a nuclear deterrent. He said that’s the only way to bring Israeli aggression to an end. This is not the first time, Atzmon has made such suggestion. He did on several occasions during the last ten years I happen to know him.

    “Israeli leaders knew all along that Egypt possessed the capacity to inflict pain to Israel’s cities. They must have realised that Egyptian objectives were not genocidal – but it also means that Israel’s enemies: Arab countries, as well as Iran, must pursue every possible means to posses the kind of weaponry that deters Israel,” wrote Gilad Atzmon.

    To prove his point, Gilad (he served in Israeli army as medic during Israel’s invasion of South Lebanon in the 1980s), says that Gen. Moshe Dayan rejected Israeli airforce command’s suggestion to attack military/civilian targets inside Egypt during the so-called “1973 Yom Kippur War”. Dayan feared that Egyptian may decide to use nuclear weapons which were allegedly supplied to Cairo by its USSR ally.

  80. Rehmat says:

    James Canning

    Are you saying you know Barack Obama better than his wife or his priest?

    Did you ever met former Congressman from Chicago, Abner Mikvaner, who predicted that Sen. Barack Obama would be the FIRST AMERICAN JEWISH PRESIDENT? Of course not, because you’re nothing but a proven bigot over several websites.

  81. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Ganji used to be an acid attacker back in the day to discredit Islam and now he chills with Googoosh.

    He also used to argue with his “fellow” pasdar buddies about why they are going to the front to fight cuz it’s useless to “waste your lives”.

    Sound familiar?

    Very normal and consistent behavior for an American-Zionist agent-patsy.

  82. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    There is no such thing as “the private sector” in the western-liberal sense in Iran and there never will be.

    Keep living in your phantasy liberal utopia world- and be happy there- while we are trying to build the real Iran over here.

  83. masoud says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 2, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    Ganji is no doubt an asshole, and the typcial type of a joke of an intellectual that quickens the heartbeats of the usual suspects, but this acid stuff is new to me.

    Do you have any more references/info? Is this something that he himself has admitted to?

  84. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 1, 2014 at 9:45 am

    “Do you think a Japanese, an Indian, or an Iranian would even undertake such an endeavor?”

    Never. Japanese maybe to a certain degree but not to the level of European/Americans. But the rest, as I said function at the level of insects. Indians at the level of beneficial insects and Iran at the level of parasitic insects. They can not see the beauty in creation. Or the meaning of that beauty. Therefore they can not become thrilled by such exploration. They would rather import the finished cargo. Shamelessly. And then claim to be morally, ethically and even scientifically superior.

  85. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Part I:

    You are wasting your breath with these muletreers. They can never understand your academic responses. They only understand when their butttss are kicked.

    You see, the import mafia, the cargo-cult and their devotees can never accept creativity for the simple reason that if they do then it would be the end of their world. Some muleteeers here, when I was raising issues about lack of creativity in Iran, used to even express their candid opinion that the creativity does not even exist in US or EU and all these innovations that come out of US or EU have been stolen from other people. And these other people have stolen in turn from others and from others and …. .

    Their pathetic magic based pseudo-logic is exactly how the ignorant of dark ages used to behave when they used to believe that earth is lying on the back of a giant tortoise and the tortoise is sitting on the @sss of a rabbit and the rabbit is sleeping on a gigantic flea and the flea in sitting on earth. This is the level of muleteeerism that we are dealing with here.

    These cargo-cult iPhone cover importers have deficient brains. Take these examples that crystallize their idiocy:

    * A country under sanctions should not give a f<cckk about Olympics and such (something that actually is deeply Western and even you can say deeply anti-Iranian eg. Marathon). If sports are to be promoted, it should be for well being of society not to make cheap stars and produce thousands of hours of useless TV programs about these sports stars and their pathetic lives. Instead of hiring expensive coaches to train promiscuouss zenakar footballists this money is better spent to make public grounds and facilities so that children can play in.

    * In Tehran, people have super-villas and castles that cost tens of millions of dollars. But they pay only 20 or 30 dollars as property taxes per year. You can even skip paying this if you give some bribe in municipality office. For the last two centuries, Tehran has been subsidized and developed by suckking the blood of the rest of Iranians. It is time that Tehran's all developmental projects and running expenditure from garbage collection to beautification be financed by property taxes like any other modern city of the world.

    Not even a dime of state or oil money should go into that monster city. If Tehranis want less traffic then they should pay higher property taxes so that more tunnels and bridges can be built. If they do not want to pay, then they should sh<t up. Someone who lives in a 20 million dollar house, should pay atleast 100 thousand dollars in property taxes per year. And that is the minimum. Unfortunately while there are villages in Iran where the entire population has amputated fingers because of lack of proper bridges, Tehranis have been subsidizing themselves at the cost of the rest of the nation:

    * Iran's disastrous pollution levels specially that of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides is squarely due to Iranian government's inefficiency. Iran's oil is sour and that means it has high level of sulfur in it. The advanced refineries that are needed to remove the sulfur from the final fuel products do not exist in Iran since no investment were made to build them as Iran had always been importing zero sulfur fuel and mixing it with high sulfur fuel produced internally to create a cargo-cult fuel. In fact Iran does not have any refinery capable of producing zero sulfur fuel. This has caused Iran to have the highest sulfur dioxide pollution levels in the entire world. The other problem is notrous oxide pollution which exists because there is not even a single company in Iran that produces catalytic converters. All Iranian cars run around without catalytic converters. Can you imagine if all the cars in New York or Tokyo were running around without catalytic converters? This is the condition in Iran. And these idiiots then come and make fun of themselves here.

    * Nukes are actually cheap. The cost comparison per kiloton of explosion for conventional weapons and nuclear weapons is quite clear. The most expensive part of a nuke is uranium enrichment simply because it is a very energy intensive process. Every gram of nuke uranium would require one MW of electricity and power expenditure to be enriched. At this rate a rough estimate can be made for the cost of nukes. Even poor countries like Pakistan and India now have dozens between themselves since they are not expensive to produce. A low tech device with a 500 kiloton yield would cost just afew tens of million dollars for a state to produce along with its delivery missile. The cost of delivering 500 kiloton of conventional explosion though is so tremendous that Iran can never even in its wet dream afford. The biggest explosive device Iran used to deliver on Iraq during the war, was a 3 tonne improvised device that they latched on to F-14 for delivery. It would take 167 thousands of sorties of F-14 to deliver the equivalent force of a single nuke of 500 kiloton. Not that Iran has that many F-14 or the capability to produce them and maintain them. There are only 100 thousand commercial flights per day in the entire world, just to give a perspective.

  86. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Part II:

    * Making fun of handicaps and people with disabilities whether acquired or congenital is so low that does not require any response. But one thing that must be noted is the increased use of technology to automate border control at affordable prices as nations like India (along its border with Pakistan) are already implementing. The automated or remote controlled sentry guns that monitor a border area and fire automatically or upon the order of a soldier in a remote place already exist. In fact Iran has been boasting for several years now that it is mass producing these. I have not seen any Iranian version though. But if these exist in Iranian arsenal then why they are not being used and if they are not to be used then why are they being produced (assuming that the state is not lying about the production of these robocops).

    * Mr Fyi has already responded to acid attack issue. But this thing actually goes deeper than it seems. Let’s hope a proper investigation brings the cowardd perpetrators to justice (not that I have much hope in this regard).

    * The corruption among the public servants in Iran has really become endemic. From courts to municipality and from police to customs every single one of these public servants take bribe. Trying to brush this issue under the carpet and making fun of corruption and fesad in Iranian bureaucracy only shows the contemptible and tragic cultural decay that Iran has experienced in these past decades. In Iran, public service is not about serving the public anymore. It is about greasing one’s own palms. And it appears the society has also accepted it. I am sure a public servant in Japan or in Norway is not paid a ridiculous amounts of money per month, but they do their jobs properly because they believe that serving the public is a sacred duty and when they can not carry on with it anymore, they have enough Iman and Eteqad to whatever ideology or deity they believe in, that they honorably resign and let someone else take over. Unlike in Iran, where bribery has become so commonplace that not even a million dollar per month as salary to a public office clerk, is deemed enough to stop this fesad.

    * The rest is gibberish and does not require any response for a thinking human being. Obviously cargo-cult muleteeers can go about dancing around their gibberish but we are the thinking ones here. You see, there is this story that Afghans say and it pretty much applies here:

    A very learned mullah one day reaches a village and discovers that the inhabitants of the village are very backward and are illiterate. He finds out that there is another mullah in the village and this mullah also functions as the teacher and the go-to-guy in the community but this village mullah is himself a jealous, half illiterate and cunning guy who is taking advantage of the villagers ignorance by goofing them and taking over their possessions in return for his fake services. So the new mullah decides to offer the village his services for free. Just out of his passion for teaching, he wanted to become the free teacher of the village. This causes the village mullah to become furious. He gathers the whole of village and invites this new mullah to a duel. A duel to see who is more knowledgeable. Right in front of all the villagers. “Fair and Square”.

    The cunning corrupt mullah knew that this newly arrived mullah has much more knowledge than himself but nontheless without a dramatization, the villagers would discover the truth through the teachings of this new mullah and he would be kicked out of the village. So, on the day of the duel this cunning mullah picks up a stick and makes a snake like line in the sand in front of the villagers and shouts at this new mullah, challenging him to identify what this line represents.

    The new mullah who is puzzled, starts to enumerate all the things that line could represent in sciences. From a polarized component of electromagnetic radiation to oscillation of subatomic particles. After an hour of speculation by this new mullah, the villagers could not understand what the hell this new mullah was saying. They were puzzled by these new things that this new mullah was coming up with to relate to this line on the sand. At this moment the village mullah strikes and comes forward, telling the villagers that this man is a magician. He is trying to take control of your lives. He is a “filthyY-JewW”. This line that I drew is just what is left in the sand after a cow that was pissing passed by here. The villagers already were familiar with the real phenomenon of the effect of a walking and simultaneously pissing cow on the soft sand. So they all agreed with the village mullah and started beating to death the new mullah.

    This is the situation in Iran. We are dealing with unthinking bricklayerrs and muleteeers.

  87. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    November 1, 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Part III:

    As you can see, an iPhone cover importer can never understand the meaning of production and creativity. These are foreign concepts to him. He would rather run to Dubai to buy some stuff and load it on a dhow and smuggle it into Iran and make some quick bloody buck. That is why he can not understand the story of iPhone. He is stuck in importing its cover from China via Dubai.

    The Short Story of iPhone:

    Once upon a time there was this company ridiculously called Apple that had quite a strange history. From its conception by a few American kids (never Iranian), it had a reputation of being crazy and innovative. They were never the biggest force in any market but they had a cult following who valued innovation. In 2007, this funny named company having never manufactured any phone till that time, releases a phone to the market by the name of iPhone. A funny name back then. The giants of phone manufacturers like Nokia laughed at it. The journalistic reviews were rather pathetic. I remember reading at the time that it is a failed product since, its screen will get dirty/scratched pretty soon and how on earth people are going to text without feeling the keys and such other nonsense.

    But the iPhone developed with an R&D cost of 150 million dollars, revolutionized the way we saw phones. Nokia the god of mobile phones, went dead this year (RIP Nokia). Just 7 years to the date iPhone came to market. And how the iPhone came about? Well it sure did not come about by importing its cover from China. There was this American kid (never Iranian) who believed in pushing things. His name was Steve. He would walk in to a meeting of his top engineers and curse them and call them idiiots and tell them that they will be fired by the end of the day if they did not drop every f<ckkingg thing they were doing and do what he tells them to do. You see, he used to get these visions. And those f<ckkingg idiiot engineers were no more than his cooks who had to build whatever came to this guys's head last night. This is how an innovation driven society runs. The Iranian girls nowadays offer their body for several months if you buy them an iPhone6. Such is its power.

    Now in US, they fire people who say but-but-but, and let them become white trash with their wives becoming sl<ttss and their children junkies. In Russia they used to send the idiots who were saying but-but-but along with their families and their friends and village fellows and neighbors to gulag. In Japan they offered them the honor of seppuku. In China the official policy was forced organ donation including the heart and lungs. In Iran they give them airconditioned offices, official cars, fat salaries and every comfort of the world plus the right to charge bribes and commissions and their god given right to never be questioned by the public, and then at the end of the day the only thing they produce is saying but-but-but. Well, time has come that some body should kick their b<tttss now.

    By the way, I want to revise that one trillion dollar figure. That was just the oil income, the hard cash and the foreign currency exchange that was given to Iran in the past couple of decades. The actual wastage is much bigger to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. Take the example of the artificial inflation that Iran has been suffering since the end of the war. The state prints more money than the economy requires and can absorb, the result of which has been a terrible inflation, a kind of stealing from people by cutting down their buying power.

    Or take the example of mismanagement of Iran's resources as Mr. Fyi also mentioned above. There was this Japanese company that used to buy Iran's soil from Hormuzgan islands. The soil there is truly unique as it has different metallic oxides which gives a spectrum of colors to the soil from light yellow to dark red. The Japanese used to pay Iran a few thousand dollars per a shipload of 35,000 tonnes of that soil. In Japan they used to make pigments out of it for use in specialized paints and makeup. These pigments were sold at thousands of dollars per ounce by Japan and sometimes Iran was the eager and happy customer.

    Or take the example of South Pars. In early 1990's by a mistake an Iranian oil ministry ship discovers the world's and the history's largest methane & condensate and helium reserve. The idiots instead of treating this info as a national security secret, the next day held a press conference inviting all foreign media and releasing the news. Within months Americans were in Qatar locating the reserve and mapping its southern borders which put the south part of this gigantic reserve inside the EEZ of Qatar. Immediately Americans put related sanctions on Iran and signed LNG contracts with Qatar. Trillions of dollars of Iran's share of the gas is being sucked out. The technology poor cargo cult nation of Iran can do nothing but watch from the shore as Iranian share of the gas is being shipped around the world since it does not have the b@llls to threaten to nuke Qatar if its share is not respected. There are many many more examples like the 120 billion dollars that Iran gifted to EU and US just couple of years ago.

    In Islam these kind of wealth has a legal name and out of this worldly implications. It is called Baitul-Mal. Now this is funny. The Islamic Republic of Iran at least officially claims to be following Hazrat Ali. Well, during the rule of Hazrat Ali, there is not even a single mention of him ever having tried or even being interested in imposing Hijab. Not even a single one incident in which he would try to fix the hijab. This is in a society in which just prior to coming of Islam as per the tradition, women when having their period used running around nude. But what Hazrat Ali was very sensitive and careful about? Well, the single most important thing to him was Baitul-Mal. So that, not even a single penny of it somehow by mistake ends up in his pocket or the pocket of his family or friends. That every penny be spent properly. He could not sleep straight because of this issue. He was never interested in throwing acid into the face of girls showing hair. Or arresting them or beating them up or stopping them in the public and tell them about the virtues of hijab. Even if this was important to him, he never did it. His number one priority remained the proper use of Baitul-Mal.

    In Iran on the other hand, if you ask anything about mismanagement of material and human resources then you are labelled as either a k@fer, or a crypto-jeww or a Zioniist. And then probably if they know about your whereabouts, then you know what is going to happen to you. All the while these iPhone cover importers and the muleteeers and bricklayerrs and such are subsidizing their lives at the cost of Baitul-Mal. Whether when they are importing some rubbish on an exclusive import license they got for that particular rubbish by paying a bribe or through their fakofamil or khaleh khaharcheh. Whether when they are being paid to do their fake noheh khani and actor quality religiosity. Whether when they are being paid for doing absolutely nothing but pretending to be loyal muleteeers. Every aspect of their pathetic parasitic lives is subsidized by Baitul-Mal. Whether when they get a goodie that the rest of Iranians do not get. These people are all what Quran says fuel of the hell.

    Then they run around in their arrogance calling fetneh-gar all those who raise their voice against this Zulm. Well the fetneh was done by two guys. Mr Karoubi a long time insider who used to go around liquidating mining companies and industrial units selling their machinery for scraps and transferring the money offshore and Mr. Mosavi a relative of Mr Khamenei. Both were dear and darlings before 2009. Both are alive and enjoying their lives even today. Their relatives are rich and happily enjoying their ill gotten wealth. If you have the b@llls instead of accusing ordinary people of fetneh, execuute these two. Publicly. But then we know that you cant. The reason you cant is because they know your dirty laundry as you know theirs. If you were yourself clean you did not need to go around accusing ordinary people of fetneh. If you were really worried about sanctions, you would not have wasted tens of trillions of dollars of Iranian nations' Baitul-Mal. That is why you need to do a shady deal and get back on with your cargo business.

    Alas, this time is different. There is no deal to be had and US is about to make an example out of Iran. You see, super powers have to be careful. You let one go and the other slaves rise up. Already the Argentinian president is growing a tongue. That is why it is even more important to punish Iran. Soon Iran's oil exports will be brought down to zero and all trades with Iran banned. US has already decided on these things. There are only two options now. Iran bends in front of US, lickking the yellow frotthing spit of US, apologizing to US and offering a chunk of its sovereignty to US. The other option as Mr. Nasser had linked to Dr Javad Isfehani's article above is long term hunger and destitute. Things could have been different though, if innovative and thinking people had not been driven away by a bunch of muleteeers and bricklayerrs.

  88. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 2, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Mr. Ahmadinejad tried to alter that; he publicly stated that Tehran – pop. 10 million souls – consumes 33% of Iranian government budget.

    No wonder, parts of Tehran are like Madrid….

  89. Rehmat says:


    How unfortunate. Tehran doesn’t have 280 brothels like Tel Aviv.

  90. Rehmat says:

    Never mind the US-Israeli relations have hit rock-bottom. Never mind Israel is being condemned by people around the world. Never mind Israel is losing support among Christian Evangelicals for the first time. However, the Islamophobe founder and chairman of 1.8 million Christian United for Israel (CUFI) ministry, pastor John Hagee, says his group’s support for Israel is stronger than ever.

    “We want to send the message to the world and to the Jewish people that Christians are standing up for the state of Israel and the Jewish people at home and abroad,” Hagee told 5,000 of pro-Israel Christian evangelicals who attended the 33rd annual “A Night to Honor Israel” meeting at Cornerstone Church in San Antonio.

    When it comes to the current “existential threats” to the Zionist entity including Hizbullah, Hamas, Syria, Iran or even ISIS, Iran has always been on John Hagee’s mind. On July 19, 2011 while addressing CUFI meeting in Washington DC, Hagee warned Iranian president Dr. Ahmadinejad not to threat the Zionist regime. “Mr. Ahmadinejad, don’t threaten Israel. What you do to the Jewish people, history proves, will be done to you,” Hagee said.

    “We are sitting on pins and needles, before November 24th, waiting for the decision (P5+1 and Iran negotiation) to come down on Iran’s nuclear bomb efforts, and we all have this deep concern that it is going to be a negative decision as far as Israel is concerned. We fear that America will once again be very conciliatory to Iran, and let them go forward with their maniacal nuclear plans,” Hagee told his sheep this time.

    US-born Israeli ambassador in Washington, Ron Dermer, also addressed the anti-Christ loving crowd. However, instead of apologizing for his Talmud for insulting Jesus and his mother, Dermer’s entire speech was focused on Iran’s nuclear program.

    “Folks. I don’t know if there will be a deal with Iran next month, but Israel is very concerned. We are concerned because a year ago some hoped that the tough sanctions regime on Iran would only be dismantled if Iran’s nuclear weapon program was dismantled. Today, the international community is prepared to make a deal that would suspend and ultimately lift the sanctions. But no one is talking about dismantling Iran’s nuclear weapon program,” dermer said.

    David Brickner, executive director of pro-Israel group ‘Jews for Jesus’ said in Phoenix on March 2, 2009, that two most powerful evangelical organization; International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and ‘Christians United for Israel (CUFI)’ are run by Zionist Jews. The first is run by Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein and the second by David Borg.

  91. Nasser says:


    Thank you Thank you Thank you

  92. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 2, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Yes, a Madrid built on blood of a nation.

  93. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    November 2, 2014 at 10:03 pm

    Welcome Welcome Welcome

  94. Sineva says:

    Smith says:
    November 2, 2014 at 6:28 pm
    You might want to take a look at

  95. M.Ali says:

    Congrats to Smith for outdoing himself. I’ve never seen condense so many worthless sentences in a few posts. His crap-to-words ratio is really improving. The only way to increase this ratio is to actually be able to electronically transmit feces.

    Nasser, I know like almost everyone else is the world, you just like hearing things that match their already established ideas, but its just a shame to be so stubborn. You are not willing to understand the complexity of decision making, economy, budget, etc, and just enjoy someone like Smith just repeating what you want to hear.

    It’s so easy and comforting to think like you guys. Smith thinks he is a Prophet and a Misunderstood Genius, but I will repeat again, what you guys are talking about is no revolutionary and radical that is a lone voice in the wilderness. Most average people think that they have all the answers and that idiots are not listening. Go to the comment section on ANY TOPIC IN ANY POLITICAL DEBATE IN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WOLRD and 90% of the comments are people like you two who think they know what’s up and everyone else is an idiot.

    It’s not sad and pathetic that there is so many wrong points in Smith’s arguments but that he (and you) somehow think that he is being Socrates and no one is listening. His mindset and arguments is so LAYMAN that it would be funny if he wasn’t so tiring and vile.

    All this is just so ORDINARY. If I wanted to have such debates that are made by people who have no concept of the most simple economic factors, consequences of actions, and reality, then I can have them in any family gathering or mehmuni.

    So basically, enjoy masturbating each other. Call me when you want to have a mature debate where you cab put numbers together and think logically to understand a concept, rather than have an excuse to swing your dicks around.

  96. fyi says:

    Rehmat says:

    November 2, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    My understanding has been that the prostitutes in Tehran, just like their counterparts in Paris and Madrid, roam the city.

  97. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 2, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    Yes, about South Pars; reminds me of that character Haji Baba.

    But just like the War of Sacred Defense, this war has had its own positive consequences in revealing the weaknesses in the Iranian state and polity.

    After 1988, Iranians went about carefully assessing their military weaknesses and developing ways and means of addressing them.

    I expect nothing less during this economic war.

    I also expect that US will try to stop all oil exports from Iran; which Iran would circumvent through Iraq, Russia, as well as the spot market.

  98. BiBiJon says:

    deal = no deal = extension = detente

    Part of the reason why it really doesn’t matter what transpires by Nov 24th, is that the real thing has transpired already, before Rouhani was even elected.

    The burgeoning areas of US-Iran mutual interests, coupled with increasingly mutinous behavior/rhetoric of ME allies/clients of the US, has put US and Iran in the same bunker, shooting in the same direction. Call it Kentucky Fried Chicken if you cannot utter the word detente. Labels make no difference to the substance of the current state of bilateral relationship.

    Think about it. Talking, negotiating, and hobnobbing for over two years is not going to suddenly turn into retrograde mutual recriminations. Even if they agree to disagree over the nuclear issue, US and Iran have established a rapport more reality-based, than US currently has with any of her ‘allies’ in the region. While I agree with the Leveretts that they are unlikely to reach agreement on any ‘still outstanding’ nuclear issues, ever, I think it would be wrong to deduce that on Nov 25th things will regress back to calling one another evil, sanctions, etc. etc. With meta-flatulence (a la fyi) certainty, the two sides find their current level of compromises perfectly livable with in perpetuity, and will formulate additional sanction relief, Additional Protocol, and additional what not, to cement a “no-deal” deal for eternity.

    SecDef Hagel has been demanding clarity about whether or not Syrian Arab Army is a partner in the fight against D’esh. He will be told a definitive ‘yes’ on November 10th after conclusion of Kerry-Zarif collusion.

    “Neither West nor East” was beginning to lose all meaning with the degree of animus between Iran and the US because in contrast, it made China and Russia appear positively affable. Iran’s independence required a course adjustment, the ‘no-deal’ deal with US is precisely that course adjustment. Both US’ and Iran’s regional interests were beginning to hurt badly, and appreciative Chinese/Russian chortling was proving insufficient inducement for the two sides to continue the slap-stick comedy. Yes, GCC+Turkey’s nose will be put out of joint; Netanyahu’s hair will be in flames. But, those luminaries have so overplayed their hands that their irresponsible behavior can only be ameliorated through regime change.

    My empirical evidence for above? “crap-to-words ratio” tells me anxiety level in Tel Aviv is red-lining.

  99. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    November 3, 2014 at 10:18 am

    It is accurate to state that Iranian Diplomacy succeeded in bringing Axis Powers to the negotiating table.

    I suppose one may consider that an improvement over the previous position of the Mad King: “Peace is expensive, War is cheap.”

    But we are, in my opinion, still years away from strategic settlement between the Axis Powers and the Shia Crescent.

    They are still unwilling to deal with the new Shia/Irani power – they prefer ISIS.

    As Axis Powers go through its phony war against ISIS, one hears pleas for volunteers to come and patrol neighborhoods in US in order to protect the children from the criminal elements.

    So, yes, go 5000 miles away from US to protect Yazidis or whomever while in your own country school children are unsafe.

  100. Ataune says:


    I do concur with you. Even if a formal agreement is not reached by 24th of November the relations between Iran and the US won’t go back to the level they appeared to be 2 years ago, i.e. crisis just a step away from hot war. I believe the course of events in the Middle-East has somehow directed the US side to calm down the game she was playing against Iran and Iranian leadership had wisely calculated that now is the best time to take a pause and look for some kind of accommodation. This doesn’t necessarily, and fortunately in my opinion, translate into cozying up like 2 allies, but it does mean US looking for some kind of testing the waters to see how much of an independent Iran can fit into her unipolar power projection. Basically, I believe the strategic policy makers have decided that a crisis situation with Iran or a war with her will go against the long-term strategy and interests of the US and they need something else to replace it. This something else will be the object of the future political struggle between the two country.

  101. Jay says:

    It will perhaps makes little difference, but it is still worth saying!

    The nature of the criticism espoused at times here leaves a great deal to be desired. In addition to being oppositional, and at times personal, it is often lacking sufficient focus and clarity – that is, it is difficult to envisage a path to action.

    Criticism with the goal of betterment and improvement is an essential part of recipe for progress. On the other hand, criticism for therapeutic purposes for the self should be parsed out for any value first – then, discarded if it lacks value beyond all elements of person and personal.

    I for one am not persuaded by contentious arguments that rely on ambiguity of language to try to “sell” the inferiority of a culture or people. Just as criticism is a part of recipe for progress, so is civility and honest rationality.

  102. James Canning says:


    Your apparent belief Nato prefers good relations with Isis to good relations with Iran, is silly.

    However, a number of very rich and powerful Sunnis do support Isis.

  103. James Canning says:


    The followers of John Hagee tend to be badly educated and from the lower social classes. Just watch video from an annual convention of CUFI for graphic demonstration of the accuracy of my observation.

  104. James Canning says:


    Obama is “Low Church” Protestant Christian. Not Jewish, as you seem to claim.

  105. James Canning says:


    Rich Chicago Jews were indeed a core factor in his achieving the White House. Who would argue otherwise?

  106. James Canning says:


    You suggest that I am “bigoted”. “Bigoted” against whom?

  107. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 3, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    I think the English learnt not to let the Rabble rise to power during the Lordship of the late Oliver Cromwell.

    Other countries have yet to assimilate the fact that the common people, the Rabble or the Mob, cannot govern.

  108. kooshy says:

    BiBiJon says:
    November 3, 2014 at 10:18 am

    “My empirical evidence for above? “crap-to-words ratio” tells me anxiety level in Tel Aviv is red-lining.’

    M. Ali and Bibijon- I must admit you guys excel at the bloggers game of “whack e troll”, sometimes you hit our residence “trios zios” too hard on their masks. Becarfull, you may become accused of violating their source “material benefit”.

  109. Ataune says:

    fyi said:
    “… the Rabble or the Mob, cannot govern.”

    I don’t think it is the “Rabble of the Mob” governing in Iran. Look at the history of Oxford and Cambridge university for example and you will see the role clergymen played in establishing a place for enduring knowledge, places which later on became the launch pad of the modern governing elites. The “shiia clergy” in Iran play almost the same role, although with some variations. It is the only continuous academic base on the Iranian plateau for the kind of knowledge that Kant tried to delineate in his “practical moral”, linking it to the past and having an existence independent of the Western scholars one’s and at the same time encompassing the root of their thinking. One would say that the only path for assuring the independence of the political order in Iran is to have those clergy keep the influence they have today in governing Iran’s polity. This governing might, can and should be reformed, like any other dynamic political order, but its presence in one way or another should be promoted for the sake of democracy and independence.

  110. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    November 3, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    I was commenting about US and Mr. Hagee.

    But I agree with your statements about Iran for the most part.

  111. James Canning says:


    You appear to contend that those who say Israel undermines the national security interests of the American people in the Middle East, are “Zionists”? Or “Zionist trolls”? Amazing.

  112. kooshy says:

    James Canning says:
    November 3, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    “Kooshy, – You appear to contend that those who say Israel undermines the national security interests of the American people in the Middle East, are “Zionists”? Or “Zionist trolls”? Amazing”.

    Gav- who do you mean are those? Can you name or identify one or any of those which I can recognize?
    Gav- do you think some Brits can be of “those” kind? Or expatriate Iranians can be of “those” kind? Where can we find more of those?

  113. Persian Gulf says:

    ” If you have the b@llls instead of accusing ordinary people of fetneh, execuute these two. Publicly. But then we know that you cant. The reason you cant is because they know your dirty laundry as you know theirs. If you were yourself clean you did not need to go around accusing ordinary people of fetneh.”

    not sure who this crap is directed to.

    ظاهرا مثل همیشه اینقدر زر مفت زدی اینجا هوش و حواس از سرت پریده. به غیر از نرفتن به اون مهمونیه هالوین کذایی علی رغم اصرار دوستان، و شب قبل رفتن به مسجدی که باباش درس اخلاق میده و بیان دزدیش با چند نفر اونجا و گفتن اینکه دخترش پول دزدی شده از ملت ایران رو باهاش مشروب میخره میریزه تو حلق مسلمون و غیر مسلمون چه کار دیگه ای از دست من بر میاد.

    وقتی آقای خامنه ای به صفحه تلویزیون نگاه کرد 70 میلیون ایرانی تو مناظره دیدن کروبی ،دزد بزرگ، رشوه گرفتن رو از شهرام جزایزی قبول کرد و آب از آب هم تکون نخورد دیگه از یه آدم عادی کاری برنمیاد. ظاهرا حاج آقا کروبی خوش اشتها هم بوده، دخترها رو فقط فرستاده آمریکا و انگلیس.

    make no mistake, if I had the power, both Mr.Karoubi and Mr.Mousavi would have been hanged by now.

    and this guy is not simply an ordinary person who did Fetneh, in case you don’t know him.

  114. masoud says:

    BiBiJon says:
    November 3, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Rose colored glasses i’d say. The Leverett’s are right, the US is not yet ready to make a strategic shift, don’t let the Obama-Netenyahu partisan rift fool you. We are nowhere near a historic change in either America’s Israel policy, or it’s Iran policy. We are just a local minimum as far as the personal relationships between the heads of the executive branches of Israel and the US.
    This farce of deal needs to end soon, so the Iranian economy can go about the business of discovering how to trade productively with non western nations without using western based financial mechanisms.
    US Iranian detente is not happening. These games are just theatrics designed to influence wold opinion about who is to blame for the inevitable breakdown.

  115. BiBiJon says:

    @ masoud

    Much is made out of strategic relationships with a top-down cascade of actions, and transactions that flow from that strategic understanding. I believe the era for that has passed long ago. These days, those who are successful, a la China, have no guiding strategic relationship with anyone. The sum total of their interactions with Russia may give the appearance of strategic partnership, but it could be just a collection of stand-alone commercial/military/diplomatic endeavors which are individually sensible areas of cooperation, and none of which were dictated by some overarching strategic relationship with Russia. Similarly, Russia has emerged as a more estimable international actor by getting out of her debilitating Warsaw pact liability. Doing away with sacrifices for the common/Soviet good after shedding the Soviet weight around her neck, has freed her to enjoy a buffet, instead of a set menu.

    Conversely, part of the abuse that both the US and her allies dish out at each other are because of these strategic relationships/straightjackets. Prince Turki, or princess Netanyahu can get way past red lines in antagonizing the US, and US gets to eavesdrop on Merkel and cost Germany a tidy sum in sanctions against Russia in an atmosphere of ‘sacrifice for the greater strategic good.’ There will come a time that folks will have to balance the books on sacrifices versus individual member benefits.

    If my hunch is correct regarding major world powers, then it is 10 folds truer for a country such as Iran. She ought not enter a strategic relationship with any great power, because being ” just a local minimum” inside is worse than being one on the outside, methinks.

    So, I think having a ‘normal’ relationship with the US is what will develop from a detente, and that should be the limit.

  116. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali, Jay,

    Mr. Bitch refuses to give us his definition of “culture”.


  117. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    These superior westerners should get on the whole electronic transfer of feces thing quickly.

    I really need to send some to this arrogant shit (hey no pun intended) that keeps posting here under the name “Smith”.

  118. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Notice how he titled his masterpieces with roman numerals like some heavy scholarly work.

    Fuckin delusional.

  119. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Like I said, Ganji’s CV over the years is consistent for these types.

    Wrong then, wrong now.

  120. Rehmat says:

    In September 2013, in his farewell interview with Israeli newspaper The Jerusalem Post, former Israeli ambassador in Washington, Michael Oren, a very close friend of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, admitted that Israel wanted the removal of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad from power from day one.

    “Tehran-Damascus- Beirut arc is the greatest danger to Israel. The initial message about the Syrian issue was that we always wanted Bashar Assad to go, we always preferred the bad guys who are not supported by Iran than the bad guys supported by Iran,” Oren said.

    Earlier, Jewish The Washington Post reported that war on Assad has become an issue of great importance for the American organized Jewry and Israel.

  121. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 4, 2014 at 8:48 am

    Constant non-actionable criticism can lead one to a jaded view of the source. That the criticism is offered in the form of gloating, a sense of schadenfreude. This is not healthy.

  122. fyi says:

    masoud says:

    November 4, 2014 at 1:27 am

    I agree.

    I think re-oriented towards the East as well as towards domestic production is already taking place; I do not think Western companies have any future in Iran – even if the sanctions are lifted tomorrow.

    For 25 years, Iranian state did minimal investments in Khorram Shahr; expecting the war with Iraq to resume and all such investments be destroyed again.

  123. fyi says:


    On Lebanon:

    In 2006, during Israel’s attacks on Lebanon, very many Christians in West Beirut were drinking alcohol to the health of Israeli pilots.

    Now those same people and their families have to rely on Hezbollah for their security; else ISIS would kill them and sell their namus into slavery.

    I can state with certainty that France will not send troops to rescue them.

  124. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Would be nice if he would define the central concept in his grand theory, right?

  125. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 4, 2014 at 9:36 am

    The culture of Muslim polities; i.e. the way the live today and have lived for several hundred years, is inadequate to the world that has been constructed by people whose culture has been rather different.

    Some people with a different culture than that of Islam, like Sikhs or Hindus or Chinese, have prospered in the United Kingdom.

    On the other those, very many people from Pakistan, have failed miserably in UK.

    Those Muslims who care about what happens to other Muslims are, at times, frustrated by what they see and experience and what they aspire to see – a difference between Ideals and Realities of Islam.

    I have watched over the last 35 years that more Shia Muslims all of them civilians, murdered by Sunnis Muslims than by Jews or Christians or Chinese or Hindus or Yazidiz or Bahais or Sikhs or atheists or by the Axis Powers or Israel or Russia.

    There is no doubt in my mind that there is a profound malaise in the heart of Sunni Muslim culture which has persisted for the past several centuries; from before the time of Tamerlane (Teymour the Lang).

    Now we are watching how that culture is manifesting itself through ISIS.

    There was no surprises in

  126. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 4, 2014 at 10:24 am

    I agree that establishing the basis for a discussion – the assumptions and concepts – is a necessity.

    There is no doubt in my mind that “we” can always do better. And, no doubt, there are instances in which not doing better is gated by irrational aspects. However, the extent to which this behavior is originated in the culture vs. human nature vs. situational constraints etc. is not so easy to judge.

    Valuable insight is in the form of “here is what is needed”, and “here is how you engage in the practice of getting there” – not in the abstract as in “get there!”, but in practice, as in “the practical roadmap”.

  127. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 4, 2014 at 10:58 am

    I have no quarrel with the generalities of the observations you have posted – although I would suggest that the correct word in the phrase “… is inadequate to the world that has been constructed …” is incongruent rather than inadequate.

    It seems to me that numerous subcategory names can act as a “rough” replacement for the word “muslim” in these descriptions.

  128. James Canning says:


    Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. And he is not Jewish. (The editorial policy of the paper remains strongly biased in favour of Israel.)

  129. James Canning says:


    You referred to “Zionist trolls” so I should think you can identify them.

  130. Fiorangela says:

    “November 04, 2014

    Iran’s Culture Ministry has defended the “successful presence” of an Iranian delegation in an October 28 conference in Pittsburgh that was reportedly also attended by State Department official Greg Sullivan.

    The conference, “Growing Business between the U.S. and the Middle East,” was organized by the American Middle East Institute.

    The Iranian delegation included Deputy Culture Minister Ali Moradkhani and the director of the Fajr Music Festival Ali Torabi.

    In a statement published on Iranian websites on November 3, the Culture Ministry said the Iranian delegation did not have any “official or unofficial” meeting or discussion with U.S. officials.

    “The presence of the Iranian delegation led to criticism by pro-Israel and anti-Iran hardliners, and one week ahead of the visit, two senators and members of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives drafted an anti-Iran motion to prevent Iran from attending the seminar,” the statement said.

    The statement added that the efforts failed to bear any result.”


    The American Middle East Institute ( http slash slash www dot americanmei dot org/Mission dot html )was founded by Simin Curtis, who is of Iranian heritage; Ceci Sommers, of Jewish background and whose family has been active in media and broadcasting in the area; and Anahita Firouz, also Iranian American. Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill is honorary founding chair of the organization.

    AMEI premiered as the Pittsburgh Middle East Institute in 2007. One of the first events it signed onto as a co-sponsor was a talk by Patrick Clawson, concerning “Nuclear Iran.” The other, major sponsors of that event were zionist organizations. PMEI was disturbed to have been part of what turned out to be a hateful talk by Clawson; the group reorganized and changed its name shortly after the Dec 2007 event.

    Subsequently, AMEI has held annual conferences where featured guests included Henry Kissinger, Madeleine Albright, Thomas Friedman, among others.

    AMEI also sponsors Arab language and culture study trips.

    In an article in the Washington Free Beacon attacking the Conference and the presence at it of actual Iranians, scribe Alana Goodman wrote that “nuclear negotiator Hossein Mousavian” was present at the Conference, but this is not accurate: Mousavian, who has held posts in numerous European, Arab, and other capitals representing Iran in all manner of negotiations including nuclear discussions, was invited to appear at the Conference but was unable to do so because of a schedule conflict. Recently, Mousavian’s appearance at International Peace Institute where he discussed his book, “Iran and the United States: An Insider’s View on the Failed Past and the Road to Peace,” appeared on C Span http slash slash www dot c-span dot org/video/?320226-1/book-discussion-iran-united-states

    The video and the book are both worth your time; they present an insight — the Other side of the story — that is most often absent from the information presented to the American public by its major media outlets.

    The childish whinging about the AMEI conference lodged by Free Beacon, by Foundation for Defense of Democracy (!), and by several elected representatives of the people of Pennsylvania, are puzzling. James Madison wrote,

    “A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce, or a tragedy, or perhaps both.”

    Are the Free Beacon, FDD, and Pennsylvania’s legislators opposed to a well-informed public, in preference for “tragedy and farce?” What are they afraid of?

  131. Fiorangela says:

    Smith —

    Steve Jobs is dead.

    Who has replaced him?

    If USA is so rich in Appleish technology, why does it feel compelled to carry out dishonest deals and destroy other nations other nations in order to sustain its Dollar hegemony?

    “The details are emerging of a new secret and quite stupid Saudi-US deal on Syria and the so-called IS. It involves oil and gas control of the entire region and the weakening of Russia and Iran by Saudi Arabian flooding the world market with cheap oil. Details were concluded in the September meeting by US Secretary of State John Kerry and the Saudi King. The unintended consequence will be to push Russia even faster to turn east to China and Eurasia. . . .

    “The US-Saudi oil price manipulation is aimed at destabilizing several strong opponents of US globalist policies. Targets include Iran and Syria, both allies of Russia in opposing a US sole Superpower. The principal target, however, is Putin’s Russia, the single greatest threat today to that Superpower hegemony. The strategy is similar to what the US did with Saudi Arabia in 1986 when they flooded the world with Saudi oil, collapsing the price to below $10 a barrel and destroying the economy of then-Soviet ally, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and, ultimately, of the Soviet economy, paving the way for the fall of the Soviet Union. Today, the hope is that a collapse of Russian oil revenues, combined with select pin-prick sanctions designed by the US Treasury’s Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence will dramatically weaken Putin’s enormous domestic support and create conditions for his ultimate overthrow. It is doomed to fail for many reasons, not the least, because Putin’s Russia has taken major strategic steps together with China and other nations to lessen its dependence on the West. In fact the oil weapon is accelerating recent Russian moves to focus its economic power on national interests and lessen dependence on the Dollar system. If the dollar ceases being the currency of world trade, especially oil trade, the US Treasury faces financial catastrophe. For this reason, I call the Kerry-Abdullah oil war a very stupid tactic.”

    If the US is so smart that it produces kick-a** innovators like the Apple engineers, why does it have to rely on heavily-armed thievery to sustain its economy?

  132. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 4, 2014 at 7:13 pm

    I thought about whether to respond to you or not since on a previous occasion you had sided with a cargo-cult muleteer and had disrespected me. I do not respond to people who so clearly side with falsehood. But since you are the blue eyed girl of Leveretts- on whose site I am a grateful guest- and you “seem to genuinely want to learn”, I make an exception for you here.

    “Steve Jobs is dead.”

    Every one is destined to die. Some day me, some day you. There is no shame in that. The shame is to live a life of falsehood and cargo-cultism.

    “Who has replaced him?”

    I do not know. I could care less for such a trivial matter. The point here is not who replaced a dead prince. The point to learn here is that, the society of United States of America produces and attracts many more like him in all fields of material knowledge every week if not every day or even hour. Whether they be an abandoned baby of a Syrian father or an immigrating Iranian girl.

    Do you know what is the most important and proud thing for an Iranian medical student when he or she goes to hospital for his/her round, the very first time? It is his/her right to carry a stethoscope. To finally be able to carry this simple and yet the most recognizable sign of being a physician. A sign of a curer. A sign of a healer. It is the same all over the world. Do you know what brand of stethoscope medical students all over the world including in Iran strive to have and even are gifted by their parents/friends/relatives? It’s 3M Littmann Classic II SE. Or if he/she can afford and wants to show off then perhaps a 3M Littmann Master Cardiology. Made in USA.

    Do you know that the Iranian Air Force pilots still take pride in flying their 40 year old F-14A? A kind of deep pride that only and only another fighter pilot can ever understand. The Iranian pilots never got that same kind of pride flying the Chinese and Russian planes they later on bought, after much begging and weeping in the courts of Moscow and Beijing. The rumor has it that the quality of those planes left alot to be desired.

    Do you know that there are about quarter of a billion people infected with hepatitis C in the world? That is about the population of Germany, France and UK combined. Do you know about the torment of being a hepatitis C+ patient? The torment of being infectious to other people and the torment of always being in danger of developing liver cancer? There is no vaccine for it either. And do you know which country invented the ultimate cure for it? Here is a hint: It is not Iran. Here is another hint: It is the same country that has produced the bulk of medical sciences that we rely on today.

    Do you know that the pull horses of Iranian railway are 60 year old GE locomotives? The joke has it that when GE builds a locomotive, then it never dies. It’s the drivers and the engineers tending to that locomotive who get old and eventually die off.

    I can go on like this for weeks. From PET-CT Scanners to multi-core microprocessors. From exploring the origin of universe to our latest understanding of economics and psychology. At the forefront of all these is United States of America. The inventors, discoverers and explorers eventually will die off as will all the helminthic muleterrs and bricklayers. The difference is what they leave behind.

    ” If the US is so smart that it produces kick-a** innovators like the Apple engineers, why does it have to rely on heavily-armed thievery to sustain its economy?”

    Well, it doesn’t have to. It’s a free choice most of Americans make when offered the opportunity. United States is a very rich country. The whole world including Iran depends on US for their quality of lives. For solving their problems some age old and some new. And all these countries are ready, happy and eager to pay United States for its unique services. They are even ready to over-pay if that’s what US really wants. The problem is not monetary or economical. It is not about dollar hegemony. It is rather ideological.

    There is no thievery. In fact United States is getting poorer in order to sustain an unnecessary ideological war. A war with no end in sight. This is not about dominance of a type of economic system over another as it was during the cold war. It is a religious war whose seeds were planted during Reagan’s administration. Part of the problems that US is facing today is because of heavy influence of a certain apocalyptic religious zeal in its political system, whose adherents believe that by supporting certain blood-shedding groups and their ideologies overseas, they are going to hasten the coming of their messiah.

    Then there is this other part of the problem which is not unique to US as a super power. All powers during human history have behaved the same way, more or less. You can call it the human weakness. It is the arrogance that comes with being in position of unchallenged authority. Kind of how Pharaoh felt about himself. Take the case of Russia. They begged US. They wanted to over-pay US. They wanted to become a small partner of US. But the arrogance of US could not accept this. The Russians had even built iPhone statues in their cities. They wanted US to just accept them as half-Westerners. Not even full Westerners. Just half. But no. It was not acceptable to US.

    Take the case of Iran. A country whose populace is actually despite all the ill US has done to Iran remains open to accept US as a friend. As long as US accepts Iranian sovereignty and their right to live as per their wishes. They are ready to do business with US. Not only over-pay but hyper-pay for American services. In economic terms, this is an exceptionally good deal. Even Mr Khamenei has on numerous occasions referred to this possibility. Iranians love dollar like many others around the world from China to Senegal. But this is not good enough for US. Both because of arrogance and because of ideological reasons.

    So what does US do? they go and use their lackey wahabi slaves whom they inherited from British empire in order to bring down the price of oil and therefore showing the might of US to the world. To assure the world that it is US that is in control not Russia or Iran. Now, Russia is not a push-over. They are pretty much a super power themselves and in the vaults of Russian government there are more 100 dollar bills in physical form than there are 100 dollar bills in pockets of American citizens. But Iran, is another story. A poor, weak and bamboo technology nation. This is the nation that is in cross-hair. The plan is to cut off its oil exports. Once and for all. In order to soften it as they had softened Iraq for a decade prior to 2003 invasion.

    This is not about dollar hegemony. That term has no scientific basis for its use in economics. It is rather pure hegemony. The hegemony of a Master over a slave. The hegemony that accepts the idea of America being greater than the rest of humanity. As Imam had aptly termed it many years ago, the hegemony of the “World’s Arrogance”.

  133. Fiorangela says:

    Please, dear Smith, don’t hate me because I’m beautiful, even tho my eyes are not blue.

    Yes, US does provide fertile ground for innovation. One of the major ways that is accomplished is by tapping the knowledge of people from universities and laboratories all over the world. Hundreds, maybe thousands of researchers in genome labs in the DC suburbs are Chinese, Viet Namese, Indian. Russians and Swedes — yes, Swedes sit at the heads of some cutting edge software development projects: they own the corporations that employ our American-educated sons and daughters.

    At the same time that US takes advantage of the intellectual and entrepreneurial abilities of other nation’s institutions and efforts, it seeks to destroy the capabilities of other nations, like Iran, to do the same. That does not make me proud of the USA. My “blue-eyed” vision of Iran holds that honesty is a prime virtue, not always or consistently attained, but always aspired to. The US seems to regard honesty as an inconvenience, a some-time thing; our leaders routinely lie to the people and the people lie to themselves.

    USA was not destroyed in WWI or WWII; rather, US catapulted to the top of the heap as a result of a “victory” won by Russian soldiers, and an atom bomb developed by German engineers. Iran suffered famine and occupation in those two wars that laid the groundwork for nearly a century of prosperity for the USA. Puffed up on that shallow victory, and not having been called to account for its crimes against humanity in achieving it, the US has pin-balled from arrogance to arrogance; propaganda worked so well to involve USA in wars in the 1940s that the US cannot shake the addiction, nor can it afford to be honest with itself.

    The US is young; we have not experienced the suffering that we have meted out to others. Iran has weathered numerous cycles of prosperity and of devastation and it endure, but it remains to be seen if USA can perdure through a period of suffering such as Iran suffered in the 1980s, for example; and what will the American people do if — or when — the tables are inevitably turned and the US population is “starved, strangled, sanctioned” with the goal of destabilizing its government?

    By the way, so what if Iranian doctors use an American-made stethoscope? They have developed superior socio- medical systems. Is it more important that an Iranian architect use his or her unique gifts to build a better building, or should he spend his time making a better hammer?

  134. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    November 5, 2014 at 4:17 am

    I oppose organ selling on moral grounds; the poor selling their organs.

    Like so many Indian women renting their wombs as surrogate mothers for Euro-Americans to have children.

    In regards to innovation, Mr. Smith is quite correct.

    At least, at the highest state level, Mr. Khamenei recognizes the challenges facing Iran and indeed all non-Western states and polities.

    At the street level, he is mostly ignored; I am willing to bet even his own officials lack the vision or the will and wish only to enjoy their sinecure in some state agency.

    I would like to draw your attention to the following:

  135. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 5, 2014 at 1:31 am

    I think the Russian Federation’s Iran policy is also at a cul de sac; cooperation with West on Iran only helps undermine their own security – even without the events of the last 6 months in Ukraine.

    They will now have to start strengthening Iran….

  136. Jay says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 5, 2014 at 4:17 am

    Bravo! For opening up this path of discussion.

    It is balance that we seek in discussion. A sense of justice in the form of accepting the “good” with the “bad”. The late Gore Vidal, a man forever dedicated to the cause of enlightenment, said of American culture that it never was in danger of demise – because it never existed. One of the towering figures of discourse, Noam Chomsky, calls the United States the leading terrorist state.

    When we criticize, out of context, and without recourse to action, we forego of the sense of justice in our rhetoric. Anecdotal evidence to the tune of desire about all things western in Iran is abound. The technological advance in the west, in the recent past, has been spectacular. But, the “genes” of this progress runs through Aristotle, Al Farabi, Avicenna, Maimonides, …

    The world view that fails to recognize science and progress as “standing on the shoulder of giants” is at the least myopic, at the worst subversive, and somewhere in between ethnocentric.

  137. James Canning says:


    Russia wants to ensure Iran does not build nukes.

  138. Ataune says:


    “Russia wants to ensure Iran does not build nukes.”

    No, Russia, like any other power, wants to make sure that her interests are preserved the best.

    Relations with Nato going down the drain fast and Russia being “downgraded” from partner to adversary, her interests can no longer be preserved by having a bystander and leaning toward the West position regarding Iran. It looks like Russia will now start playing this card in her relation with Nato with a rather positive approach towards Iran.

    Such an outcome, will obviously open-up tremendous opportunities for the Iranian side vis-à-vis both Russians and the West.

  139. James Canning says:


    Russia’s definition of self-interest clearly demonstrates an intention of doing what it can to ensure Iran does not build nukes.

  140. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 5, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    Well, it certainly has gone out of her way convincing Iranians that their security can only be predicated on long-range nuclear munitions.

  141. Rd. says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2014 at 9:21 am

    “Intellectual Curiosity and the Scientific Revolution: A Global Perspective
    Seventeenth-century Europe witnessed an extraordinary flowering of discoveries and innovations “

    Samuel Huntington once remarked:
    The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.

  142. Ataune says:


    Russia’s head of state has publicly stated in several occasions that he doesn’t believe Iran’s intentions are to build nuke. The only reason Russia did go along with US initiated measures in the UNSC was that she considered the moves as a favor, obviously with quid-pro-quo, to a partner more important than Iran. Now that the partnership is being replaced by adversity and given Russia’s previous acknowledgements regarding Iran’s intentions the field is wide open. Your mistake is to think that Russia believes the same fallacy you believe in that Iran had or has intentions to build nukes.

  143. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    November 5, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    A very simple question that curious people might pose:

    Within Islamic Thought – say Kalam – What is the Holy Ghost? What is his relationship with God, Man, and Angles? Is Holy Ghost a person? Or something entirely and qualitatively different? Is Holy Ghost “Mahdath” or “Qadim”?

  144. Rd. says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    “A very simple question that curious people might pose: “

    The Masks.

    the poetry of African-American poet Paul Laurence Dunbar (1890s) as well as Maya Angelou (very briefly) : “There in those pleated faces/I see the auction block/The chains and slavery’s coffles/The whip and lash and stock./My fathers speak in voices/That shred my fact and sound/They say, but, sugar, it was our submission/that made your world go round.”

    The mask, as I understood it, was reflecting the pains and suffering of a people and not that they are brick layers.

    The ‘red’ Indians too often suffer from alcoholism addictions in great numbers. That too is a reflection of the pain they suffered as of people. One can suppose they are just alcoholics!

    Just as a human body requires time to heal from an injury, a society too needs time to heal. You are arguing the ‘brick layer’ society is lost in space. Yet as a ‘learned’ man you are willingly ignoring the pains and sufferings over the years, decades and infact generations. Why?

    The poem is touching, infact the 20 minute or so video is well worth understanding the audacity to change ourselves.

  145. Nasser says:

    Patrick Buchanan writes:

    “In a democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve.

    The American people are today a deeply divided people — on ideology, politics, faith, morality, race, culture. Americans today — and not for the first time — do not really like each other.”

  146. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2014 at 9:21 am

    What a surprise! Absolutely gobsmacked that YOU would draw attention to work of unvarnished religious bigotry, combined with unmitigated racism.

    By your recommended book’s logic, which you seem to share, the thousand years of European dark ages after the collapse of the western roman empire, despite the Islamic civilization’s achievements should be an enduring truth about Christians and Europeans. Take your pills on a more regular basis, I say.

    Concentration of economic, academic, and many other activities in any particular time and locale is purely by accident. There’s no reason, none, other than pure chance, that Waterford in Ireland became synonymous with crystals. Later, even though Czechoslovakian glass workers had to be imported into Waterford to churn out crystals, the “made in Waterford” had assumed such a cache that a whole industry was born and thrived, and continues, for no reason but utter historical chance.

    That is true of South Yorshire’s Sheffield steel and every single other place known for something or other. Indeed, the industrial revolution itself was nothing but serendipity; a few necessary ingredients that happened to exist at the same right time in the same place, namely England.

    Scientific pursuits, were a little like a mini mental industry. By chance, some people were willing to tinker with Islamic inventions, copying the works of Ibn Sahl, Ibn al-Haytham, Al-Kindi, Avicenna and Abū Rayhan al-Biruni who are the first to postulate that speed of light is constant.

    Anyways, the mini industry of tinkering with Islamic discoveries by chance started yielding surprisingly useful stuff. The Islamic world who by then generally had come to expect nothing of any value from the European heathens happened not to take any notice. Bloated with success they ignored it until it became a military disadvantage. After that, the disparity was imposed by brute force, not by some intrinsic religious, cultural backwardness. The backwardness was imposed. Do you get it? Otherwise how the hell did the backward Europeans escape their backwardness.

  147. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    As Rd pointed out and I wrote some time ago you consistently fail to understand the central role of extreme violence perpetrated by westerners on others.

    You never got around addressing the “central paradox of western civilization”- the more liberal domestically, the more vicious externally- discussed by Prof Mann based on an empiricist approach to analyzing history.

    You are scared to even read his book or articles.

    So much for own intellectual “curiosity” which you keep be rokhe ma keshidan.

    He’s sophomoric and you’re a hypocrite preaching what you don’t practice.

    And as always instead of addressing the question being posed to you, you start some bullshit discussion about something unrelated.

    You might want to try posing your theories in a proper academic setting. No wait, that would mean dealing with evidence that goes against your assumptions and you have clearly shown you don’t have the capacity to do that.

    Let us never forget that you are person who actually believes that African children are incapable of learning math.

    Just reminding myself and others who the fuck we’re actually dealing with here (are you listening Jay-jan?).

  148. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    And Mr bitch is in fact not correct.

    Just because you or bitch don’t know about the innovation made in Iran by mainly young Iranians, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    I doubt this is going through your thick skull.

    Go “innovate” a clue before you comment on things you have no first-hand knowledge of.

    You and bitch would not last a single day in a managerial position with responsibility in the real world because you’re arrogant and you would loathe the very people who are trying to lead to better achievements.

    Bitch not getting this is understandable cause the only real world experience he has is jerking off behind the monitor.

    But you as an old fart who has actually worked with other human beings. I mean really how did you stand it for all those years having to endure the presence of lesser life forms as co-workers and employees?

  149. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    November 5, 2014 at 6:04 pm

    The Euro-Americans, with their medical innovations from the time of the late Harvey until now have caused hundreds of millions of non-Europeans to avoid certain death and to continue to live and live well.

    Do not waste my time with your pathetic Third-Worldism and We-are-the-victim.

    Denigrating and dismissing the hard intellectual and physical labors of European thinkers and artisans over 1000 years – from the 9-th century until today – as serendipity is patently nonsensical.

    Go study and do not make foolish statements.

  150. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    November 5, 2014 at 5:00 pm

    And the Ottomans were practicing Islamic Charity against all the conquered Christian populations of Eastern Europe?

    And the Uzebecks Shaibanian in their constant incursions into Khorasan were teaching the Shia what?

    I think it would be a good idea for you to ask yourself:

    “Why is it that we Muslims are where we are today; given that the European global ascendancy did not start until the 15-th century?”

    “What were we doing or not doing?”

  151. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    Have pity on pethatics, the cheif among them you.

    In case your pathetic brain did not grasp the argument, here it is again:

    Availability of wool, abundance of rivers for transportation, availibility of labor force, no part of England being further than 70 miles from a sea, and a captured colonial market for textiles created the environment for industrial revolution. Either Religion nor ethnicity, nor culture had anything to do with it. Your pthetic bigoted brain could not figure out that in the process of demonstrating that ‘chance’ is the biggest factor in concentration of economic and other activities in particular locale, I was not in any way denigrating the industriousness and the ingenuity that goes into ceasing upon that chance. But, pathetic fart that you are, it takes an inordinate amount of time to explain the simplest things to you. Truly a waste of time. If only you’d study a bit more, and understand more than a 10% of what you read. Start on a book of manners when farting in public.

    Farts like you ought to study what colonialism meant. A little less petty-mindedness might enlighten you to this:

    1) Bravo to all thinkers and doers of the ages, Egyptian Persian, Arab, Indian, Chinese and European of all imaginable relegions for whatever they have done to advance human knowledge and well being.

    2) Pity the pathetic mind of moronons who do not understand all rested on one anothers shoulders.

    3) Damn the imperial impulses that destroyed so much of human potential during the ages.

    4) Pity the pathetic mind of those who don’t understand #3

    For pathetics like you, here’s a taste of third-worldism, for which the perp confessed, appologised and paid.

    What a moron!

  152. BiBiJon says:

    In an eralier article Erskin writes about 300 boxes of files, totalling some 17,000 pages of documents, the Foreign office was forced to release related to the detention camps.

    “Bottles (often broken), gun barrels, knives, snakes, vermin, and hot eggs were thrust up men’s rectums and women’s vaginas. The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects, ostensibly to gather intelligence for military operations, and as court evidence.”

    The purpose she says: “perverse colonial logic: only by physically and psychologically atomising almost the entire Kikuyu population of 1.5 million could colonial authority be restored and the civilising mission reinstated.”


    In the NPR I posted earlier, Erskin says:

    “we have plenty of evidence that the systematized violence that happened in Kenya was honed and brought throughout the empire, from Palestine to Malaya to Kenya to Cyprus to Aden to Northern Ireland.”

    pathetic third-worldism, hey! fyi, the genius that he is, well-read and all, has discovered that the Mau Mau tribe did not produce world-renowned medical scientist, not because of hot eggs shoved up their buts, but because of a cultural/relegious deficit.

  153. kooshy says:

    BiBiJon says:
    November 5, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    You guys are wasting your time trying to debate these trios zios, they are not here to have a honest debate and reason, even when you try hard and corner him on a point, the best you get out of this AH is the cliché expatriate proverb “ suppose your dad was a scholar………”.

    Like I told him a while back if he (they) demonize and slur national insults, he will be whacked hard back to his apartheid burrows.

  154. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    November 5, 2014 at 4:17 am

    I don’t hate anyone. That would go against my beliefs. But it is my prerogative to address whomever I want.

    I am sure you are beautiful, even without blue eyes. At any rate blue eyes are blue because of a deficiency in their iris. The deficiency of melanin due to a genetical mutation. Theoretically a perfect eye iris should be completely black for producing a perfect image on retina. But then our eyes are not that perfect to begin with, so such a triviality does not impact its performance.

    “Yes, US does provide fertile ground for innovation. One of the major ways that is accomplished is by tapping the knowledge of people from universities and laboratories all over the world. Hundreds, maybe thousands of researchers in genome labs in the DC suburbs are Chinese, Viet Namese, Indian. Russians and Swedes — yes, Swedes sit at the heads of some cutting edge software development projects: they own the corporations that employ our American-educated sons and daughters.”

    You should be proud of this. I and others from cargo-cult nations can only envy you.

    “At the same time that US takes advantage of the intellectual and entrepreneurial abilities of other nation’s institutions and efforts, it seeks to destroy the capabilities of other nations, like Iran, to do the same.”

    Well, at least in the case of Iran, there is not much existing capability to destroy. By the way intellectual and creative capability can never be destroyed by a foreign nation. In fact any foreign hostility should actually sharpen such capabilities. Human history is full of such instances. Let me elaborate with an example here which will explain where half of the life force in your body comes from:

    Take the instance of the invention of Haber Process and WWI. US and UK sanctioned Germany and cut off its access to sodium nitrate, a strategic mineral back then without which no armament could be produced. Germany invented Haber process and started producing ammonia from atmospheric nitrogen (three quarters of air is made of nitrogen) substituting it for sodium nitrate.

    As you already know there is also something called the nitrogen cycle with regard to biological life on this planet, including the humans. You see what makes life possible is proteins and what makes protein, is nitrogen. Without nitrogen, there is no protein and therefore no life. In nature, the rain dissolves the atmospheric nitrogen, delivering it to the soil. In soil microbes called the nitrogen fixing bacteria take that nitrogen and convert it to a form that plants can absorb and use it to produce proteins for their own use. Then animals eat those plants and use those plant proteins to make their own tissues and bodies. We are omnivorous and therefore we eat both of them, deriving our proteins from both.

    Since humans left hunter gathering and became agricultural societies, the biggest limiting factor in producing food was the depletion of nitrogen from the soil they depended on for agriculture. Naturally food was always scarce because of this limitation because as soil became “poor” the crops could not grow in it or would not grow to make a good crop. This till Germans came up with Haber process. After the war, the Haber process was diverted to produce artificial fertilizers instead of bombs.

    The result was an agricultural revolution that allowed for a human population boom. Suddenly humans were no more dependent on forces of nature to enrich their lands. Today half of all protein in human bodies including that of Iranians comes from Haber process, not the natural nitrogen cycle. Half of proteins in the bodies of Iranians have their origin in a factory running a process that came from German creativity and innovation. And this all started with sanctions. But sanctions on a thinking nation. A wakeful nation. Not a cargo-cult nation. There is not much capability to destroy in a cargo cult nation. Only a few bamboos here and a few stones there.

    “My “blue-eyed” vision of Iran holds that honesty is a prime virtue, not always or consistently attained, but always aspired to. The US seems to regard honesty as an inconvenience, a some-time thing; our leaders routinely lie to the people and the people lie to themselves.”

    This is too broad a stroke of brush. You might want to come with a lighter hand on such issues. Honesty is a relative term. In fact, if I have to judge, I would say Americans are more honest than Iranians. Japanese are even super honest compared to Iranians. Inside Iran, honesty is fast becoming a rare commodity mostly because of economic pressures of the past 40 years and the huge mismanagement on the part of government. But what is honest about Iranians is the foreign policy of Iran which is honest in my opinion, probably even too honest for such a deceitful world. The rest is the same as US or even worse.

    “USA was not destroyed in WWI or WWII; rather, US catapulted to the top of the heap as a result of a “victory” won by Russian soldiers, and an atom bomb developed by German engineers. Iran suffered famine and occupation in those two wars that laid the groundwork for nearly a century of prosperity for the USA. Puffed up on that shallow victory, and not having been called to account for its crimes against humanity in achieving it, the US has pin-balled from arrogance to arrogance; propaganda worked so well to involve USA in wars in the 1940s that the US cannot shake the addiction, nor can it afford to be honest with itself.”

    So what should we do? Take your wealth and give it to a muleteer in Tehran? I mean is this it? What about Indians? Can they take back from Iranians all the looting that Nader Shah did in Delhi? We have to see things as they are. Russia could not have survived German onslaught without America’s help. No way. They were no match for German machines. It was the American planes, tanks and ships that won the war. And contrary to popular belief it was not only Germans that were defeated in that war. But also the British empire. US this time around did not bill the cost of war to Germany, Italy and Japan. They billed it to British monarch. And the monarch gave it all up. A master stroke by American statesmen at the time.

    If Iranians suffered, it was due to their own fault. They were weak in a time when the world was in turmoil. Weak nations during times of turmoil have to suffer. If Iran also at the time had a strong military industrial complex imparting on it a strong deterrence, it could have protected its official neutrality. If tomorrow WWIII starts what do you think is going to happen to Iran? The same thing. Do you think Iran today has a deterrence against a Russian, Western, Chinese or even a Pakistani invasion? Absolutely not. If Iranians do not like to be a victim, then they shouldn’t put themselves up to become one. But deep down Iranians are like that “victim” beggar who uses his/her “victimhood” and “disability” to collect sympathy and cargo. This the reality.

    “The US is young; we have not experienced the suffering that we have meted out to others. Iran has weathered numerous cycles of prosperity and of devastation and it endure, but it remains to be seen if USA can perdure through a period of suffering such as Iran suffered in the 1980s, for example; and what will the American people do if — or when — the tables are inevitably turned and the US population is “starved, strangled, sanctioned” with the goal of destabilizing its government?”

    What prosperity? Before the invention of Haber process, almost all humanity was always living on the verge of starvation. A look at our genes, says it all. Our genome is not programmed to deal with prosperity. It has evolved to deal with starvation. The moment you overfeed it by even a little it can’t handle it and makes us fat and diabetic with clogged arteries. In Iran and the rest of the world, almost all the population except the feudals and arbabs, used to sleep with half fed bellies on good nights.

    The prosperity as you know it, is also a western invention. An infectious tooth here or a folliculitis there used to kill bread earners, elderly and children alike before the advent of western invented antibiotics. It used to take months of walking dangerous valleys to go from one city to the other before the West invented cars, trains and planes. Was this properity? Iranians were never prosperous in their entire history. Maybe a few kings and princes were but not the people. 1980’s by comparison were good times. The hardships that existed were because Iranians were dumb. If they had learned nuclear physics and understood it, that war either would not have happened or would have ended very soon.

    And you do not need to worry about starvation in US. American agricultural technology is leading the world. Who is going to sanction US? Iran? Afghanistan? or Libya? Sanctions only work on cargo cult societies. Such as Iran’s. US is not a cargo cult nation, therefore sanctions will not strangle it. Only minutely annoy it.

    “By the way, so what if Iranian doctors use an American-made stethoscope? They have developed superior socio- medical systems.”

    Well, if it was only the stethoscope then I would not have bothered much. But it is every thing. From stethoscopes and ophthalmoscopes to automatic ELISA and MRI.

    The kidney transplant story also does not apply. There are several issues to consider here. Iran has a high rate of renal failures because of untreated glomerulonephritis and hypertension. The first priority of a good medical system should be to prevent such high rates of renal failures. As for organ selling and buying, these things actually were happening in Western world too. But on ethical grounds they later on banned it and now only donations are acceptable.

    The reason that some urologists in US praise Iranian system is totally different. It is because as a professional urologist, you see lots of your patients are dying or live a miserable life on dialysis and you think in a cold rational way that it would not matter if some people gave up one kidney to help themselves financially while ending misery of those patients. There is also the cost of dialysis which can be as high has $50k per year. But the Iranian system is not something to be emulated. It is unethical. Let me give you an idea about how an ethical system based on economics should look like which is absolutely not what Iran is practicing.

    In such a system, for example if implemented in Iran, there will be no contact between donor and recipient. Only an organ and tissue bank would know the identity of these. No money is transacted at all between recipient and donor. The donor is paid by the government a set amount of money, say the average cost of dialysis for these many years or some other criterion. The donor will also get some honor from the government, say a status card enabling the donor to claim some tax benefits, a couple of years off the retirement age or something similar. In addition the donor will be entitled to more frequent free medical check ups and free therapeutics for life.

    And if need arises, there should be a guarantee that he/she in addition to one other person among his/her family/friend will be on the top of the list to receive a kidney. Under such a system, there will be a pool of kidneys. Some of them will be from people who just want to donate for the sake of helping a stranger. Some from people who want to help a family member/friend to go to the top of the list. Some from people who need some money. Now the money is not an issue at all. Say there are 3000 kidney transplants per year in Iran. And the government pays 25 thousand dollars to each donor (right now the poor are selling theirs for as low as 2 thousand dollars). The sum total comes to 75 million dollars per year. Peanuts for Iranian government specially with all the corruption and mismanagement going on.

    Such a system would be ethical, humane, honorable and functional. Something to be envied by Americans. The Iranian model right now is unethical, inhumane, dishonorable and dysfunctional. Currently the poor guy sells his/her kidney for a very meager amount and then he/she is on his/her own. Bye bye.

    “Is it more important that an Iranian architect use his or her unique gifts to build a better building, or should he spend his time making a better hammer?”

    Better hammer. To hit himself on the head with. Iran is an earthquake prone country. Not even 0.01% of Iranian buildings that these architects have designed can withstand a serious earthquake.

  155. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2014 at 8:00 pm

    One thing that has blocked the Iranian progress in sciences, is the high praise the mediocre like Avicenna or Farabi have received in Iranian society. Avicenna by his own admission could not understand the Aristotle’s Metaphysics after reading it 40 times and memorizing it entirely. Something that had been written 13 centuries before him. Then he finally “understands” it after reading a book by Farabi. And who was Farabi? A translator who was sitting beside Christian scholars learning Greek and Latin classics from.

    We have to set these things straight if there is to be a scientific awakening in Iran. The fact has to be accepted that Iran never had a proper thinker.

  156. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 5, 2014 at 9:23 am

    That is right. But I do not think Russians will strengthen Iran. They would rather want to see Iran becoming a quagmire for America. Like an Iraq 2. Otherwise it would not be difficult for Russia to deliver Iran 50 batteries of S-400 and 300 units of type Su-35 fighters which would tilt the strategic balance in favor of Iran.

  157. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Hey bitch-boy,

    “…the mediocre like Avicenna or Farabi have received in Iranian society. Avicenna by his own admission could not understand the Aristotle’s Metaphysics after reading it 40 times and memorizing it entirely.”

    Are we to believe that you understand Aristotle’s Metaphysics in its entirety?

    Go tell that to your virtual girlfriend online, she’ll believe you.

    Son, you are mentally unstable- nay insane- and you live in a delusional world where you are the god-like all knowing genius king.

    Maybe you are living in a mental institution that allows you online access.

    And what about contemporary philosophy from analytical philosophy to philosophy written in German or French? How about Asfar?

    Ah yes, you understand all these philosophical texts- in their entirety.

    Avicenna’s and Farabi’s fossilized shit is worth more than your entire life and that of your ancestors and descendants combined.

    Did you understand that in its entirety?

  158. nico says:

    What a shame to see so much bickering and solid BS from the trio of trolls…
    Extatic while the collapse is so close Just at the corner.

    Globalization is finished.
    Real growth will not be experienced anytime soon… As long as things do not turn much worse.

    Wait and see How the US will manage through with zombie economics and How they will socially face and manage the inevitable outcome… With their individualist and broken social fabric.

  159. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    November 6, 2014 at 4:54 am

    Avicenna is recognized as a giant in the field of medicine and pharmacology by westerners – at least by those with smaller egos and larger brains. Garrison Keillor dubbed the kind of behavior exhibited here – the illusory sense of superiority – the Lake Wobegon effect.

  160. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    “Superior” western psychiatrists also have a few technical expressions for this kind of behavior.

  161. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    November 5, 2014 at 9:16 pm

    Study; you are writing about things of which you have no detailed historical knowledge.

  162. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 6, 2014 at 2:07 am

    I believe the poor quality of translation was what prevented him from understanding Aristotle’s metaphysics.

    I do not think praise for the late Ibn Sina or the late Al Farabi were impediments; it was like the curiosity of the spirit and the mind went out of an entire civilization.

    China is even more puzzling; with their inventions of paper currency, salt tax, silk, paper, printing, gunpowder, compass, examination system etc.

  163. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 6, 2014 at 2:11 am

    Those systems will not alter strategic balance in favor of Iran, only nuclear weapons would.

  164. Rd. says:

    fyi says:

    “Why is it that we Muslims are where we are today; given that the European global ascendancy did not start until the 15-th century?”

    There are those ‘minority’ who believe had Alexander not invaded Iran, the greatness of Cyrus and Iran would have continued (though it actually did). Likewise those who believe had the Arab invasion not succeeded, the purity and glory of the Sassanian/Iranian would have continued.

    How ironic that Rostam, commander of pure and advanced Iranian army would be defeated by a group of nomads roaming the deserts! And how ironic from that culture/people who lost their purity at that time to have their offsprings in their katoni shoes and bare hands stand before a very well equipped arab army supported by most other countries?

    The only constant here in this life that we know is CHANGE. What ever it is that causes one man, any man, to become a learned and a stand out, compared to many others, or what ever it is that causes one group of people to prosper then fall. Perhaps it is a cruel joke by the gods, or just the nature of beings.

    The many accomplishments of the westerners, new ideas, discoveries, etc are noted. You have also often opined, the mad kings roaming the halls of this very western world! How do these mad kings came about? Was this madness because of the great many innovations and ideas the westerners have developed in recent centuries? Or did this madness came about despite their new ideas? Or is there another reason? Can you elaborate please?

  165. Rd. says:

    BiBiJon says:

    “That is true of South Yorshire’s Sheffield steel”

    to add, steel was in production in many places going back to ancient times. Chinese had a steel process which two brits learned (centuries later)and brought to england which at the right time became an ingredient of the industrial revolution. But the two brits never gave the credit to the Chinese where they learned the trade from. You know those brits!!!!

    now,” the Crusaders may have bought Damascus steel to fight the Fatimids with!” There is some irony there. How one group of people learns from another!!!


  166. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    November 6, 2014 at 9:39 am

    The madness lies at the inner center of Mankind; it is always there, just beneath the surface, ready to come to the fore.

    The Americans are no exception to the Fall of Man; but they are now too conceited and too degenerated to be aware of their own madness.

    How they got to this stage, I do not know; it is a good question.

    They are fighting 8000 kilometers from their shores trying to protect Yazidi girls when – at the same time – on their radio stations they are seeking volunteers to patrol the streets of this or that city in order to protect the school children from criminal elements.

    Truly deplorable.

  167. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    November 6, 2014 at 9:39 am

    I do not subscribe to the myth of “Great pre-Islamic Iran” – the late Sassanid polity was a truly and thoroughly rotten polity – with its rigid caste system, its illiteracy, and its extreme social inequities.

    When Muslim Arabs attacked, no body wanted to fight for the Empire and it collapsed; and deservedly so.

  168. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Yes, you are right. At the end of the day, Iran will need long range nuclear munitions. Without these Iran remains defenseless.

  169. Rd. says:

    fyi says:

    “with its rigid caste system, its illiteracy, and its extreme social inequities.
    When Muslim Arabs attacked, no body wanted to fight for the Empire and it collapsed; and deservedly so.”

    We observe income as well as wealth inequality in US is in the rise. The bottm 40% own about 1.7% of wealth, (?) less then what the the few walton family own. The top 1% own some 40% of wealth, among many other relevant data!

    So how do societies despite their great many knowledge, discoveries reach such despicable state? Is it because they are ‘islamic’ or easterner in their nature? Or is it just human, for what ever reason.

    In the 60s US was able to mount an effort to land on the moon in less than a decade, mind you , with the technology of the 50s. And all the side benefit that came about from that effort. Though, the germen engineers had a great deal in its success. Today, given much more advanced technology, they can’t even reach the moon, let alone Mars or even send a supply rocket successfully to the orbital station.

    After the fall of soviets, they had a choice, to explore the space above (and all its benefits, reaserach, discoveries, etc) or dominate this very planet! Mind you, the space exploration would have been a fraction of the war cost.

    I don’t know if you had a chance to watch the interview with Angelou (below), the story of Uncle Willie is very touching. At the end, it is not so much about the westerners are better or more advanced or this or that, as we know from our ‘common’ / shared history. Shared by waring or else. Perhaps ultimately it is about ‘That which lives after us’. Regardless of being an easterner or westerner or a learned man or a common man.

  170. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2014 at 9:14 am

    But he himself does not refer to any poor translation or low quality of text. In fact he is very clear and forthcoming that he could not understand it and it was that commentary which helped him to understand the text. Anyways, it does not matter. Even if he did understood eventually, nothing came out of his understanding of it. At least for Iranians.

    You see, the reason that these things have become impediment, is because the way Iranian society is functioning. If we could see these people as part of a “glorious” past and move on, then things would have been ok. But unfortunately this is not the case. Iranians have no concept of history. They cherry pick some stuff from it and they continue living with it in the present. For these people, science is like a melk, zamin or aparteman. They have inherited it from their forefathers say, from the mediocre Avicenna, Farabi and such and now they are collecting rent on it from Western world since they sincerely believe that Western scientists secretly at night read through the texts of Avicenna and Quran and Hadith and the next day announce their discoveries. It might sound bizarre but I can assure you that this is the very truth, I have myself observed in all muslim cargo cult societies not only in Iran. As if Avicenna knew about ligands, receptors and G coupled proteins.

    These conceptions have to be shattered, if there is going to be any progress. The truth has to be told that even if these people were important during their time, their knowledge is all irrelevant today except for the purpose of historical curiosity. That they have no share in today’s scientific progress and in all the new discoveries we see coming out every day. These are not the rents of miraas-e-avicenna.

  171. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 6, 2014 at 10:59 am

    The late Farabi and the late Ibn Sina were colossal thinkers; they developed/invented/deduced the distinction between Essence and Existence from the Creation account of the Quran which later the late St. Thomas more fully developed.

    But your larger point is true; all these Muslim scholars and thinkers (almost all of them Shia) are now mostly relevant from the point of view of the history of ideas.

    On the other hand, one could still pose questions to them – metaphorically – as an intellectual exercise such “What would Farbai’s position be on the idea of Majlis?” or “What how would Ibn Sina respond to Piaget?” or “How would Suhrewardi respond to Maxwell’s equations?” or “How would Khwaje Nasir relate to the idea of United Nations?”

    To a very large extent, Iran, Central Asia, and Turkey are still living in the Seljuk Synthesis; the Mathnavi Ma’anavi is an excellent embodiment of that world view – now mostly obsolete except some moral aphorisms.

    People stopped asking questions….

  172. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 6, 2014 at 11:29 am

    Well, I am doing my part to kindle the passion for questioning among these cargo cult people. But unfortunately I do not see much positive result.

  173. Smith says:

    Scientists develop antibiotic-free drug for MRSA

    A patient trial showed the new drug was effective at eradicating the MRSA superbug

    What did Iranians do today?

  174. James Canning says:


    The Persian Empire exhausted itself, and gravely injured the Byzantine Empire, in decades of warfare prior to the Arab conquest of Persia. As I am sure you are well aware.

  175. James Canning says:


    Your assumption Iran would be allowed to build nukes is simply mistaken.

  176. James Canning says:


    Russia regretted the ill-advised US invasion of Iraq in 2003.

  177. James Canning says:


    You are correct, that Russia does not think Iran wants to build nukes or is trying to build them on the sly at this time. Which is my view too.

    However, Russia clearly does not want Iran to build nukes, and Russia will do what it can to make sure Iran does not build nukes.

  178. Smith says:

    Obama Wrote Secret Letter to Iran’s Khamenei About Fighting Islamic State:

    They create these crazies and then bomb them and now they want put Mennat on Iran so that Iran bows to them. Smoke and mirrors.

  179. James Canning says:


    I think Russia does its best to convince Iran it cannot build nukes.

  180. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    November 6, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    Should Iranian determine – as I have – that the building of the nuclear weapons and fielding them is essential for the safeguarding of the Iranian people & state and their allies, they would do so.

    The power to prevent a nuclear-armed Iran does not exist in the international arena.

    Any and all dealings with Iran, whether productive or not, must take cognizance of this geopolitical fact.

  181. James Canning says:


    Again, I think your assumption Iran can build nukes should Iran choose to build nukes, is seriously flawed.

  182. Jay says:

    Accountability is a tool of progress. One either believes that Avicenna was mediocre, or not. Slithering away with flowery arguments is dishonest. Legitimate disagreements are part of a functioning and democratic debate – it is fine for someone to hold the belief that Avicenna was mediocre. At least that person is being honest about where they stand.

    Where do you stand? Was Avicenna mediocre?

  183. Rd. says:

    Smith says:

    “What did Iranians do today?”

    Not just today..

    Discovering Iran;

    I met many such families; one in particular was more memorable. During the Shah’s regime, this family worked on my father’s farm. The father and his sons worked the farm and the mother helped around the house. In those days, this family and future generations would have simply continued to work on the farm, remain uneducated with no future prospects. But the revolution rescued them.

    The boys in the family all went to war. One uncle lost his life to chemical warfare. The rest survived – and thrived. They got themselves free education provided by the government America wants to dislodge. One of these boys, the man I met after some 35 years, Kazem, once condemned to be a ‘peasant’, had become a successful businessman. I spent hours talking to the family and to Kazem in particular. What impressed me was not just his affluence and his success in business, but the wisdom that only comes with age, and yet he had acquired in youth. He had intellect and dignity. A gentleman, I found his knowledge of internal and global affairs to be far superior to the average “Westernized” person living in Tehran (or outside Iran). He had experienced war, seen death. Iran belonged to him. He would fight for it over and over and die for it.

    What have ‘you / We’ done for Iran?

  184. Karl.. says:

    I really hope Iran said ‘f’ck off and no to your question!’ to obama.

  185. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Hey bitch-boy,

    You don’t answer questions and challenges which are difficult.

    I mean you are a genius, right?

    Remember you owe us a definition of “culture”.

    Maybe you aren’t genius enough to be able to give us a nice definition of culture. I know, copy-pasting lots of “info” is easier than developing an original thought. Ironic how you go on about original ideas while never having actually had one.

    You do the see the irony, right? Or is being an acerbic smart-ass only applicable to the work and thoughts of others, not yourself.

    You seem to be implying that you understand Aristotle’s Metaphysics in its entirety, not to mention analytical philosophy, continental philosophy and Sadrian philosophy, right? Right bitch?

    Is that your claim? I mean if you do then of course Avicenna would be mediocre compared to your royal highness.

    You’re fuckin pathetic.

  186. Kooshy says:

    “What Iranians been doing today ”
    Deterring hegemonic impulses of wana be colonist , and kicking sold out expatriates in the ass.
    Hey AH Trios Zios here you have it what you have been asking, from none other than the real horses mouth himself,

    “US can’t destroy Iran’s nuclear program”
    The one capability that your adopted apartheid country can’t counter or destroy
    Without even fielding one nuclear device.

    “Dempsey said that it is not the centrifuges or missiles that make it impossible to eliminate Iran’s nuclear capability, “but rather the human capital that has the expertise to regenerate the program.”

    US can’t destroy Iran’s nuclear program

  187. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    OK a quick review to remind us with what fuckin geniuses we’re actually dealing with.


    1. Iran’s main problem is “culture”. Refuses to give us a definition of “culture”.

    2. Goedel was not a genius and mediocre mathematician.

    3. Avicenna was mediocre.

    Old fart:

    1. Iran’s great historical mistake is not asking him about the world, “because I know it”.

    2. Actually believes (West) African children are incapable of learning math and is not embarrassed to publicly admit that that is his belief.

    Do I need to include a #3 after that #2?

  188. BiBiJon says:

    Rd. says:
    November 6, 2014 at 3:19 pm

    There must be a reason why fyi, and Schmiffed keep befouling anything near and dear to Iranians with their nonsensical diatribes.

    That reason is that for the first time in a long time Iran belongs to real, dirt-under-the-nails Iranians. Which has created a governed and government compact so resilient that it has withstood everything thrown at it, in the words of Robin Wright, except the plague. I think she spoke before STUXNET.

    That her 19th century striving for a participatory system of government had been brutally derailed by the British/Russian and American imperial pretenses does not detract from how old and deep-seated Iranians’ yearning for people power is. The Iranian polity will have resonance with developed/advanced nations of the world very naturally and organically.

    Here is where fyi and Schmiffed get deployed. Forked-tongue lashing at all the cultural/religious/historical glue that binds the nation together. Needless to say in the process the following becomes very clear:

    FYI is a moron of the first degree. Schmiffed is a rectum with fingers that type.

  189. BiBiJon says:

    The [Obama] administration considers Myanmar a foreign-policy success story in Asia

    Well, the Obama admin needs to remember there’s nothing Hilary Clinton had her hand in as a Secretary of State that did not turn into complete shambles.

  190. Empty says:


    RE: “Do I need to include a #3 after that #2?”

    Yes. You need to include a 4th item to the former (i.e. the female dog) and 3rd item to the latter (i.e. the aging methane gas. The latter believes women are not capable of reason and must behave and be treated as luxury items. The former ignores the vast amount of historical evidence that a woman, Fiorangela, has studied carefully and presented in a clear step-by-step manner over so many posts and for so long and compliments her on her beauty and blue eyes. This last one really hurts since it not only assumes her to be deficient in reason and logical argument (after all the evidence shown to the contrary), it assumes her to be an idiot to fall for a nonsense line.

    Fiorangela, I apologize to you on behalf of all the free thinkers of the world as I have appreciated your scholarly contribution to so many historical events.

  191. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    November 6, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    You have insulted me.

    Please apologize.

  192. fyi says:

    Empty says:

    November 6, 2014 at 10:40 pm

    Who in God’s Name are you to arrogate to yourself the prerogative to apologize on my behalf.

    Please apologize to me.

  193. Rehmat says:

    As the Jewish Lobby captured majority in both Houses of Congress on Tuesday, the Zionist media has resurrected an old propaganda lie to tie Barack Obama’s hand behind over any possible nuclear deal with Iran on November 24 deadline.

    The Zionist Wall Street Journal reported the other day that Obama wrote a “secret” letter without consulting with Netanyahu, to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei bypassing his “moderate buddy” Iran’s president Hassan Rouhani, in which he agreed to accept Iranian proposal on the final nuclear deal only if Iran joins the US-led coalition of absurds against ISIS. The news was flashed around the world by the Zionist-owned corporate media including BBC, CNN, FoxNews, WP, NYT, and every Israeli hasbara idiot.

    Last week, Barack Obama hinted that the so-called P5+1 and Iran doesn’t have enough time left to make a final deal, which some analysts believe is an indication that Washington wants to extend further the deadline in order to keep Iranian government under international pressure. Dr. Mahdi Mohammadi, editor-in-chief of IranNuc.IR, author and an expert on strategic issues has claimed that further extension of final nuclear deal is not good for Iran.

    The “letter” claimed to be written in sometime last month, has not been acknowledged by Leader’s office or president Rouhani or country’s foreign minister Dr. Zarif who told John Kerry in Geneva in early October that Iran would never join US war with ISIS, which he said should be left to Iraq and its Arab allies.

    Barack Obama must look an idiot to make such demand which was rejected by Ayatullah Khamenei during a meeting with Iraq’s new prime minister Haider al-Abadi on October 21, 2014.

    “We have no trust and confidence in the honesty of those making these remarks (against ISIL) and believe that the issue of ISIL and terrorism should be resolved by regional countries,” Khamenei said.

    While addressing a meeting of government and military officials earlier, Ayatuallah Khamenei showed his mistrust over Barack Obama’s statements regarding Iran’s nuclear program.

    “Although a collapse of negotiations might not result in an immediate political catastrophe for Rouhani and Obama, but in the medium-term and certainly long-term it will surely reinforce an alternative viewpoint that will argue that Iran’s only choice is to return to the “resistance” economy, by working with Russia, China and other small and large autocracies seeking to counter U.S. “hegemony,” and weakening the private sector in Iran altogether,” says Roozbeh Aliadadi, managing partner of New York-based consulting firm, Global Growth Advisor.

    On November 7, 2014, Peter Symonds wrote at the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS): “The Obama administration will no doubt seek to extract what assistance it can from Iran, but its main target in the expanding war in the Middle East is not ISIS, but the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, Iran’s chief regional ally. As Washington escalates the conflict, a US-Iranian confrontation, rather than a rapprochement, is far more likely.”

    Stephen J. Sniegoski, PhD, an American historian with Jewish family roots, in an article published at Consortium News on November 5 wondered why Israel while claiming to be threatened by ISIS, has refused to join US-lead war on ISIS in two of its Arab neighboring countries – Iraq and Syria.

    “It would be far wiser for the United States to follow the example of Israel here — and, in fact, always follow the example of Israel by adhering to national interest (that of the United States, of course, not Israel) — than to follow the advice of those American supporters of Israel who have, because of their influence on American Middle East policy, involved the United States in endless wars creating a regional environment beneficial to Israel from the perspective of the Israeli Right,” he wrote.

  194. fyi says:

    Rehmat says:

    November 7, 2014 at 10:50 am

    The news was almost certainly leaked by US Government in order to put pressure on Iranians; who are not budging from the position that Mr. Khamenei articulated in the summer.

  195. Jay says:

    I have a very good sense of who thinks Avicenna is mediocre and who does not.

    I still want everyone to be explicit because I believe that bigoted nonsense of this nature should be confronted.

    I ask those of you who believe Avicenna was more than mediocre to respond by posting a superlative that you think describes his contributions.

  196. James Canning says:


    Peter Symonds is mistaken in his claim Obama puts a higher priority on overthrow of Bashar al-Assad, than he does on weakening Isis.

  197. James Canning says:


    You regard endemic ethnic strife in Burma as the fault of Hillary Clinton?

  198. James Canning says:


    Iran has the ability to build nukes. That Iran would be allowed to build nukes is highly unlikely. You appear not to see the distinction.

  199. James Canning says:


    The “Zionist” line tends to be that Obama would allow Iran to build nukes and that it is up to the US Congress to prevent this.

  200. kooshy says:

    James Canning says:
    November 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Gav James

    My impression was that David Cameron and BO (not meaning Butt Out) want Iran to make nukes so Iran can loosen up the Zionist grip around the western neck, don’t you think so?
    Dose it sound like a good idea to you? I might have read this in financial times, or a similar British Rozinameh.

  201. Nico says:

    For those who did not see last month Putin’s valdai speech.

    1. Russia will no longer play games and engage in back-room negotiations over trifles. But Russia is prepared for serious conversations and agreements, if these are conducive to collective security, are based on fairness and take into account the interests of each side.
    2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.
    3. The builders of the New World Order have failed, having built a sand castle. Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia’s decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia.
    4. Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified.
    5. Russia has no intention of going fishing in the murky waters created by America’s ever-expanding “empire of chaos,” and has no interest in building a new empire of her own (this is unnecessary; Russia’s challenges lie in developing her already vast territory). Neither is Russia willing to act as a savior of the world, as she had in the past.
    6. Russia will not attempt to reformat the world in her own image, but neither will she allow anyone to reformat her in their image. Russia will not close herself off from the world, but anyone who tries to close her off from the world will be sure to reap a whirlwind.
    7. Russia does not wish for the chaos to spread, does not want war, and has no intention of starting one. However, today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it. Russia does not war—nor does she fear it.
    8. Russia does not intend to take an active role in thwarting those who are still attempting to construct their New World Order – until their efforts start to impinge on Russia’s key interests. Russia would prefer to stand by and watch them give themselves as many lumps as their poor heads can take. But those who manage to drag Russia into this process, through disregard for her interests, will be taught the true meaning of pain.
    9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia’s power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but on the will of the people (wwwoowwww the brick layers !!!!!).

  202. James Canning says:


    The Financial Times has an excellent leader today regarding how to proceed with a deal between P5+1 and Iran.

  203. Karl.. says:

    UK nut does it again:

    That Iran would be allowed to build nukes is highly unlikely. .

    Now the question we all wait for, who “allowed” UK to build nukes?

  204. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    November 7, 2014 at 8:44 am

    I sincerely apologize for having stooped to your level, to myself.

  205. BiBiJon says:

    James Canning says:
    November 7, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Please make a second guess why you think I think Clinton was wrong/premature embracing Burma.

  206. M.Ali says:

    All this talks about which nation has had smarter thinkers is like comparing dick sizes, which, for your information, Congo beats us all at 17.93 cms (damn you, Congonese!!!) and the Koreans are at 9.66 cm (lets all point and laugh at them, haha). Iran is 14.55 cms (not bad, high five all around), UK is 13.97, so here is a tissue for James Canning to wipe off his tears, but James can at least gloat at our American hosts by beating them at their measly 12.9 cm. Blue-eyed Fiorangela and Black-Eyed Bibijon have zero cms of penis size, so I hope they leave this site in shame with their heads down.

    Anyway, now that we got the male genetalia ranking out of the way, I hope we don’t have to swing our dicks around so much to prove anything, since the Congonese dudes have soundly and comfortably beaten us. Let’s talk about something else then.

    Why are some of the posters here pretending that out of 5,000 of human history, there has been a clan of people with a specific idealogy or religion that has been going up in a straight line, rather than constant changes. Weren’t the Mayans supposed to be coolest kids around way back when, and why are they not the King of the World today? How come I don’t see all the cutting edge technology today with “Made Proudly by Mayans” printed behind it? And we all now how awesome Greek thinkers were, but why does everyone somehow apply them automatically to all white people, instead of, say, GREEKS from you, um, GREECE. If Greeks were MENSA men and women of BC times, why isn’t all the 21st century technical inventions popping out of Greece today? How about those history altering, too cool for school Romans of hundreds of years ago that had every Eastern teenager going to their pre-industrial consulates in their countries, trying to apply for a visa for the Roman Empire to start a rock band and live the Roman Dream? How come they Google and Microsoft and IBM and Sony and Samsung and Nokia are not all headquarted located in Rome? What about the Egyptians? They had a pretty big civilization for a while, but all they contributed recently is the Let’s Do the Egyptian dance, and that’s not even the best dance in the last 100 years. What about the Arabs? How come they were living in tents one day and then they were thinking up cool math shit the next and then suddenly they stopped again? Were they on their Maths period or something?

    And then, and then, and then, how about this part. Is the tribe that invents the most things is supposed to get the Best Tribe on Earth award by God? Confucious did not invent the Iphone, but so what? I like Confucious, he’s says nice things. Or maybe Hafez did not have scientific formulas in his Divan, but like Paul McCartney says, “Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs. And what’s wrong with that?”

    Prophet Mohammad wasn’t no Henry Ford, and did not initiate an essembly line of machines, but we can still agree that he lived a worthwhile life, right? According to Mel Gibson’s movie, Jesus Christ invented the table, but I’m sure we can all agree that it wasn’t his most useful contribution to the world.

    I know I’m not achieving enough but can everyone here please reassure me that it is okay if I’m not Einstein? I work hard, I read books, I enjoy listening to music and going to Cinema Mellat with my wife, and my first child will, inshallah, be born in 4 months, and I want to tell him that he doesn’t need to be Steve Jobs or Socrates. It’s okay if he wants to be a teacher at an elementary school, or an insurance salesman, or heck, if he wants to lay bricks to build a house for someone to live in. That’s fine, right?

  207. Jay says:

    M.Ali says:
    November 8, 2014 at 8:45 am

    Perhaps, in the noise of argument, you have missed the point.

    Most here do not believe in linear development of human history, culture, or intellect through a few hundred geniuses. Billions of people, known or unknown, of many races, have contributed to the path of human development.

    Here is the point. Among the many people who have contributed, we know some by name, perhaps because we are more aware of their impact. Someone who dismisses Avicenna as mediocre, someone who thinks that everything eastern is less, and the west is the source of all human progress, must be told that he is simply wrong. He is entitled to his opinion – but not to his own set of facts.

    One of the most pernicious acts committed by people who want to erase other cultures is to denigrate their known thinkers, musicians, philosophers, … We cannot standby and let other people rewrite history.

  208. M.Ali says:

    Oh, I get that Jay, and I’m with you on that.

    I’m taking it even furthur. Let’s celebrate those who’s names we do know, for their contribution to HUMANITY, but let’s not just focus on the inventors and scientists, let’s also celebrate the artists and religious/philosopher thinkers, and even furthur, let’s also say our thanks to the millions of humans who have contributed to humanity and who’s names WE DON’T KNOW. And let’s keep some space for the hundred of millions who haven’t achieved anything historical, but have, in their own way, supported the progress of mankind in small steps, by not just adding material value, but happiness.

  209. Karl.. says:


    I know I’m not achieving enough but can everyone here please reassure me that it is okay if I’m not Einstein? I work hard, I read books,…

    Best thing yet, I dont know where this nonsense discussion comes from at all.
    Reminds us of the cold war, where the one with the biggest ‘genitalia’ would win just to impress the other part.

  210. Jay says:

    M.Ali says:
    November 8, 2014 at 9:29 am

    I am completely on board with what you suggest.

    Let’s agree that the two are not mutually exclusive, and that we must not allow anyone denigrate all things eastern.

  211. James Canning says:


    You said everything Hillary Clinton promoted as US Secretary of State was a mess. (Or words to that effect.) If I read your comment correctly (regarding Burma, and endemic ethnic strife in that country.)

  212. BiBiJon says:

    James Canning says:
    November 8, 2014 at 1:54 pm

    the substance of my comment is:

    Clinton published her Foreign Policy mag piece, “American Pacific Century,” taunting China that it is all about the importance US attaches to Asia Pacific nations, also in which she could not resist the military taunt of ‘defending freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.’

    The whole ‘pivot,’ ‘rebalancing,’ got its debut a month later, in November 2011, with a firstest everest US president visiting Myanmar.

    IMO, if you’re going to taunt China, were you in such an unseemly rush to start with a basket case of a country such as Burma? The all taunt, and no substance arrogant approach to world affairs that Clinton promoted, almost certainly made China very receptive to a Russian ‘pivot’ with a heck of lot more substance to it, than the Clinton pivot.

    Now, if Burma was not enough of an economic/social basket case, this ‘jewel’ in the American diplomacy crown, or alternatively, this yet another dog poop that Clinton stepped in as she trotted the globe, also has “endemic ethnic strife.” Thank you Hilary!

    When I think back to 2008, I think Obama had the latitude to right the American ship, and expend less on fanciful projects, and do more to recognize/respect and forge a cooperative approach towards the non-Anglo world.

    Instead, under Clinton’s tutelage we got the opposite, and nothing to show for it except her book about how it wasn’t the policy she concocted, but Obama’s bumbling execution that was at fault.

  213. James Canning says:


    I doubt the US can do much to correct social problems in Burma flowing from “crony capitalism”.

    My own view on Hillary Clinton is that her comprehension of world history is very shallow.

    Burma’s economy is growing much faster, by far, now that most sanctions are gone.

  214. M.Ali says:

    Did Mr Smith writes this article?

    “This writer’s denigration of the Iranian mentality to those on the left suggests a racist mindset that is unacceptable in our “global village.” However, this conclusion has been reached by this author by studying the political history of Iran going back all the way to the Sassanid dynasty in the 1500s as well as its 20th-century political machinations.

    Western Judeo-Christian ethics affecting our attitudes, dispositions, intentions, motives, principles, philosophies, behavior, and character do not exist in Iran and have not been in evidence since the 1500s. Even in the 20th century, only a small minority of Iran’s elite classes had any Western education. Those who have have often found themselves objects of scorn when they return to their home country. Having lived in Iran, this writer has firsthand knowledge of a Western-educated Iranian who rushed to help an old woman carrying some heavy shopping bags onto a bus. He was ridiculed and belittled mercilessly by a crowd of his fellow citizens who had gathered on the sidewalk. The attitudes and habits of mind shown by the crowd are typical of the Iranian mind at all levels of society.

    Further, the Western mind is leavened by a gestalt of rationality and framed by an understanding of the concept of “reason” and “reasoning” going back to the Greeks and extending for centuries up through the Cartesians, Lockians, Kantians, Hegelians, skeptics, existentialists, logical empiricists, and pragmatists. There is no such tradition of rationality in Iran. They are a deeply disorganized, primitive people with an oversimplified understanding of human institutions and power relationships, and no adherence to simple truths like those embodied in the Golden Rule. The primitive cognitive organization of the country thus is reinforced by and reinforces the crude meanderings of Islam. And why are they crude? Answer: because they are devoid of an emphasis on grace, love, faith, or hope. Instead, their theology is built around ideas of obedience to behavioral requirements devoid of saving value.

    Deception, glib talking, and sycophantic posturing to one’s face, but hatefulness, rage, and utterly evil intentions behind one’s back is the Iranian norm. This utterly deceptive mindset is not merely a practical strategy to be applied in difficult situations; rather, is an everyday, encompassing ontological reality (operating at the deepest level of personality). Because of the U.S. president’s proclivity to similar posturing when dealing with others, he and some of the other “clever ones” around him may perceive themselves as being more than able to out-devious the devious Iranians. However, Western deviousness is not really analogous to Iranian deviousness. Western deviousness – say, for example, that of some of America’s leaders during the Vietnam War – is conscious of itself as manipulating the facts. The Iranian mind is so given over to deviousness that it is not conscious that there is an ethical norm from which it is deviating.

    If one reads the history of Iran’s politics since the 1500s, one will not see even a hint of fair play. One will find the political arena abundant with intrigues, power plays, and murders. We do not find even a glimmer of democratic and humanitarian impulses expressed by Iran’s leaders.”

  215. A-B says:

    Continuing expounding on my previous point that ‘Truth’ sounds better, regrettably to even Iranian ears, coming from a Western mouth when/even if it actually is tainted/biased by the West; I, a [Iranian] Resterner, may pose simple questions as of why:

    – the West behaves as if “sadistic”;

    – the views of Western MSM is “surreal” in the way they “concoct” narratives;

    – the West chooses miseries to cash in on ** cough cough holocaust ** and picks others to “forget” (Iranian famine 1917-19, Saddam’s war crimes against Iran, … or, for that matter, the miseries of the Germans during and after WWII);

    – the ‘educated’, ‘modern’, ‘secular’, ‘democratic’ Westerners ‘become’ so irrational on certain issues that, at least accoding to this [proud] Resterner, should be easy to grasp?

    Then I, as if in an echo chamber, hear the same words from Chompinsky – this ‘beacon of Western Intellectualism’ (!) and a Jewish one at that (!!) that the US have “tortured” Iran for more than 60 years; … “surreal” … “concoct” … and the naturally willful “forgetfulness” of the West. Further, I hear Finkelspinkel, another intellectual Jew, just expressing (on RT) amazement of why the educated Westerners don’t seem to see the obvious. Thus, one’s qeustions become rhetorical even if that wasn’t the intention. IOW, instead of offering a theory – as to explain WHY – on which one could formulate a plan of action to change the status quo, these so-called intellectuals and scholars just recount ‘history’ and lament; like WESTERN akhund-e roze-khun. Interestingly, none of them endorses imposition of heavy/organized sanctions on ‘Israel’, this anti-civilizational cancer, because, ‘civilization’ or ‘law’- the UN according to them – has recognized ‘Israel’ as a legitimate state. This, disregarding the facts that: ‘the land’ was promised to the ‘Jew’ by those who didn’t own it; ‘Israel’ was founded on blatant acts of terrorism; and those who recognized it, the members of UN of 1948, had no real authority to do so – facts that can never make ‘Israel’ anything but an eternal bastard of the Anglo-Western imperialism. AND since ‘Israel’ notoriously violates the UN charters, the UN is entitled to kick out the piece of shit [Israel] as a member state. Chompinsky, the ‘scholar’, doesn’t even care to investigate the CAUSE of ‘war on terror’ – like who really was behind the 9/11 attacks, contrary to the late Gore Vidal who placed the blame on what he coined the Bush-Cheney junta (The Enemy Within, 2002) – but ONLY hoards facts on the EFFECTS of the West’s war OF terror on the Middle East and elsewhere, which makes reading his stuff an orgy in Sadism; and if you’re not a sadist yourself it leaves you with no hope what so ever. This makes the Western historians – and very ‘educated’ ones at that! – INFERIOR to the more honest akhund-e roze-khun!

    Speaking of akhund; the Iranian in me likens these Western ‘scolars’ to that proverbial sheykh with his vajab (cf. Persian rhyme used in case of a person, with ambition of being a scholar, claiming the obvious with great authority) but the pompous Western version of the proverb, the Orwellian “in a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act”, makes them into ‘heroes’!! This is of course how the Western narcissism has for centuries – or millennia if afterthought obliges! – produced and continue to produce droves of ‘philosopher-heroes’!! Similarly, just wearing military uniform makes ANY WESTERN soldier a ‘hero’ – and a ‘WARRIOR’ at that! – no matter how unjust a war they wage and what atrocities they commit. May God save the Rest from ‘heroes’ of the West!!

    Now the irony is that what I, the Resterner, have written above will AGAIN be repeated by some ‘astute’ Westerner, also in the so-called alternative media, and presented as ‘obvious’ and ‘everybody-knows’ stuff, disregarding that it is ONLY obvious from a non-Western [objective] point of view; hence, why ‘the obvious’ never occurred to THEM before. Would these ‘heroes’ admit – at least to themselves – that they’ve been inspired by an IRANIAN, one wonders?


  216. Jay says:

    M.Ali says:
    November 10, 2014 at 3:47 am

    Whomever it was written by, it is clearly the product of a dangerous and bigoted mind. These are the kind of folks that murder and maim “other” people because, they would claim, it is good for the “other” to die! Some have referred to these “neo-nuts”, which come under a variety of flags from liberal to libertarian, as the new supremacist – more dangerous than every because they cloak their bigotry under the guise of humanitarian intent.

  217. A-B says:

    Speaking of the late Gore Vidal; a true intellectual can, based on scholarly research have an independent opinion and, write a novel that would be ‘better’ (at least more fun) than heaps of junk that are foisted off as ‘scientific’ and ‘academic’ works. I’m referring to his book ‘Creation’. The protagonist is a half-Persian half-Greek, who lives and thrives during and under the Achaemenid Empire. He is outright scornful of the Greeks. If I remember correctly, Gore Vidal also meant that both Dariush the Great and later Xerxes were looking towards East, and had no interest in those bickering Greek bitches and Xerxes’s entanglement with them was due to the conniving of the Greek ‘lobby’ at the Persian court (hmmm …. AIPAC much!!); then the Persian defeat was not such a big deal for Iran as the ever-so-lying Greeks would exaggerate by shitheads like Aeschylus.

    (Of course, Iran already controlled the three greatest cultures of the known world, those of the rivers Tigris-Euphrates, Indus and Nile; what would they want from the Greeks; stinking olives?? That, interestingly, still have no place in Iranian cuisine!)


  218. James Canning says:


    The Persian armies that attempted to conquer what today is Greece, included many Greeks.

  219. Karl.. says:

    Still waiting on the UK nut to answer who “allowed”
    UK to build nukes.

  220. Rehmat says:

    On Monday, Iran’s IRGC announced that its Aerospace Force engineers have successfully tested by flying within Iranian space the American version of the RQ-170 drone with the capability of bombing and reconnaissance missions.

    “As we promised earlier this year, a test flight of the Iranian version of the RQ-170 was carried out and a video will be released soon,” said Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh, head of Aerospace division. Iran has displayed the model in May 2014.

    IRGC has said it managed to reverse-engineer the RQ-170 Sentinel, brought down safely on December 4, 2011 after it entered Iranian airspace from neighboring Afghanistan, and that it’s capable of launching its own production line for the unmanned aircraft.

    In October 2012, Lebanese Islamic Resistance militia, Hizbullah, sent an Iranian-designed but assembled in Lebanon drone over Israeli space. It flew nearly for three hours and was able to transmit sensitive Israeli military positions before it was shot-down by Israeli jets.

    In October 2013, Brig-General Farzad Esmayeeli, Commander of Iran’s Khatam ol-Anbia Air Defense Base, presented an Iranian-made model of American ScanEagle, to Lt. General Viktor Bondarev, Russian Air Force Commander.

    In August 2014, Iran shot-down an Israeli spy drone on way to Iran’s Natanz nuclear enrichment plant.

    Iran unveiled a new home-made radar system named Fateh 2 and a new drone Sadeq 1 during the military parade on the occasion of the Sacred Defense Week on Sept. 22, 2014.

    The Fateh 2 is a long-range radar system equipped with hi-tech, capable of tracing all types of aircraft and small Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), Iran’s Fars news agency reported.

    The Sadeq 1 drone flies at a maximum altitude of 25,000 feet at speeds above sonic boom. The home-made UAV has been manufactured for testing radar and electronic systems and training assessments.

  221. Rehmat says:

    fyi – Your Diplomat is an Israeli hasbara filth.

    How can be a “nuclear tension” between nuclear Pakistan and non-nuclear Iran? Well there has never been a shortage of morons in Israeli camp.

    On the other hand, there has been “nuclear tension” between nuclear Pakistan and Israel’s ally nuclear India.

  222. Irshad says:

    have you read the essay written by the late Sir John Glubb, titledd “The Fates of Empires”? – In this he argues that to derive any useful instruction from the course of human history, it is essential to “grasp the principle that history, to be meaningful, must be the history of the human race.” He sees history as a continuos process that is gradually developing, changing and turning back – but is moving forward in a “single mighty stream”. And that to get any useful lessons from history one must study the “whole flow of human development and not by the selection of short periods here and there in one country or another.”

    So in this light one must compare Persia, under Cyrus – the apex of Iranian histroy (?), with that, of say 1980s USA or the Ottoman Empire under Sultan Suleyman with Victorian England – so one is comparing apples and apples and not aples and oranges.

    There are many benefits that Western science and technology has given to humanity but science has a bad habit of been in bed with the military industrial complex, where a group of men in Washington or Moscow can literally end human live on earth. Or if one looks at the problem of pollution – this is largely the result of Western nations not Iran or the Muslim world – but then again the Muslim world and other developing countries are taking on some of these bad practices thinking its the norms of national development, whilst now in Western countries there are people and organisations are trying to deal with the problem of pollution and climate change, etc.

  223. Rd. says:

    Yesterdays news was (rueter, haartz, etc..);
    “Five nuclear engineers, one of them Iranian, killed in Syria: monitor”

    and todays (check); “Iran confirms building missile manufacturing plants in Syria”

    the diseased and ‘democratic’ western corp(as in corrupt) media!!!!

  224. fyi says:

    Irshad says:

    November 11, 2014 at 7:58 am

    I have not read the specific text that you are referring to but the idea has been common among the Europeans for at least 200 years.

    Consider the late German Philosopher Hegel who claimed to have discerned the “Philosophy of History” in which “Absolute Spirit”, through Humanity, came to know itself. And the highest manifestation of that knowledge was expressed in the Prussian State!

    The idea of historical retrogression is never admitted.

    One has to ask in what manner the murdered, the butchered, the tortured, the raped, the burned-alive, the unborn who were pulled out of their mothers’ wombs and the maimed contributed to the Progressive March of History.

    For myself, it is clear to me that Human Knowledge is increased and with it the Technological capabilities of Mankind in a gradual and progressive manner. One can make a Religious Cult of that: Development of Empirical Sciences but it is just that – another cult among many – another idol.

    Men are in a State of Fall and one could not expect the Euro-Americans to overcome that solely on the basis of their Intellectual and Moral achievements over the last 1000 years.

    One cannot place blame on them completely, the Military-0Industrial Complex is just a word; it does not go into the Heart of Darkness which is the Fallen Nature of Man.

    In regards to pollution etc.:

    Tehran, Beijing, Mexico City, Kinshasa, Lagos suffer from it because of the internal combustion engine’s mindless usage. They took the technology developed by Euro-Americans and used it and are using it with absolute disregard to its consequences.

    They could invest in the development of catalytic converters – but that would require thinking, planning, organizing, designing, building, and testing without Euro-Americans holding their hands and telling them at every stage of the development process as how to proceed and what to do.

    Take another example: internal combustion engine running water pumps. Their mindless use, inspired by greed and stupidity in Iran, has resulted in depletion of underground water resources in several areas – to the extent that the agricultural land has sunk a meter or so.

    The late Nasser Khosrow, in his Safar-nameh, describes how when camping outside of Shiraz, they were kept awake all night to ward off the monkeys from stealing their equipment.

    The late Ibn Battuta described Khuzestan as lush and green.

    And then there are the Cedars of Lebanon that only now exist in small patches here and there; the entire mountains used to covered by them.

    There is a semi-desert outside of Shiraz for tens of miles and likewise for Khuzestan. Pre-industrial societies have been as destructive as Western industrialized states to the Environment.

  225. fyi says:

    Irshad says:

    November 11, 2014 at 7:58 am

    By the way, I think the Golden Age of Persia is at the present time; the past does not hold any attraction for me. Contemporary Iran has the most educated, the best fed, the best housed, and the best governed population of Iranians in the last 3000 years.

  226. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 11, 2014 at 9:24 am

    What Iranians must understand is the idea of science and technology being a manifestation of rational thought used to explore ourselves and universe. Solving problems of humanity through science and technology actually should be treated as a by-product of that exploration which is secondary both in importance and utility.

    Examples are many about such utilities.

    River Thames a few centuries ago, had become a sewage canal with so much human feces floating in it that the water beneath could not be seen. The technology of sewage treatment has changed the situation now. Iranians still are using “Chah” as their sewage system, injecting all their feces and harmful chemicals into underground water tables which then they use for drinking. E Coli counts of water tables in some areas in Iran are now off the charts.

    Just a century and half ago the chief problems of all major cities of the world was horse manure. There was so much of it everywhere that no body knew what to do with it. Diseases such as tetanus and fungal respiratory infections were common due to it. The cities used to smell of it. People smelled of it. International Conferences used to be held in New York and other cities to solve this gigantic problem. Internal combustion engine finally solved the problem.

    Similarly the problems of internal combustion engines are not going to be solved in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Pakistan. They are going to be solved in California and Bavaria where thinking people are working on next technologies for propulsion.

    Our people never even understood the relationship between cause and effect, let alone the reason and purpose of human thinking faculty. They have this regressive tendency that past was glorious. Which past they are talking about, I do not know. The past where the just married Iranian brides had to spend their first night with their Arbab? The past when even a mediocre like Avicenna had to flee and live underground because the people and the state were anti-rational?

  227. Smith says:

    Chemist tackles complex problems with simplicity
    A unique philosophy helps Harvard’s George Whitesides develop new diagnostic devices:

    What did Iranians do today?

  228. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 11, 2014 at 10:13 am

    I think the charitable thing to say is that people will have to learn through trial and error.

    The less charitable thing to say is that they have no excuse since Euro-American experience is for the whole world to see and emulate.

  229. Jay says:

    Incredible images capture dazzling symmetry of Iran’s mosques

  230. James Canning says:


    You appear to argue that the P5+1 existed in the 1940s. Wrong.

  231. Kooshy says:

    Jay says:
    November 11, 2014 at 1:00 pm
    “Nano-Organic Fertilizer Enhances Agro Production”

    Thank you Jay, so this is what “Iranians have done today” good to know

    In mean time Israelis achieve killing more babies in the occupied Palestine today

  232. Karl.. says:

    China, US, UK, France, Russia didnt exist in the 40s? God one learn something new everyday, now please tell us Mr. UK who “allowed” UK to have nukes. Could you do that?

  233. Jay says:

    Kooshy says:
    November 11, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    As much as what a person or a country does on any particular day, it is even more important to ask: “what have you not done today?”

    The blind worship of man-made things, the worship of idols that are not foundational concepts, has a short shelf life. Nothing is permanent, but some things are more worthy than others. Although thinkers in the west have contributed to mankind, some forget that some of them are also responsible for the most degenerate and distorted ideas and actions.

    A minor, minor, very minor example, for our Brit friends here – a product of profound western humanitarian philosophy: “What happened to the Humanitarians who wanted to save Libyans with Bombs and Drones?”

  234. Kooshy says:

    IMO, degrading or stepping on, to demoralize one’s national / cultural including religious values, need to be immediately and full forcedly confronted to the bone of the intruder, no matter what method or techniques or reason is used, national values should not be allowed to be devalued by anyone. Iran’s historic personalities regardless of their achievements are national values that glue the Iranians inter-generatively their iconic image keeps the nation integrated this should not be allowed to be degraded.

    The trios Zios AHs of this site mostly resort to the cliche old technique of “cutting head with cotton ball” (unlike killing me softly), this AHs hope is, no one will notice their true intention. They will be confronted forcefully back to their apartheid home of now world famous chickenshit baby killer.

  235. kooshy says:

    Meant to say “values that glue the Iranians inter-generationally”

  236. BiBiJon says:

    Kooshy says:
    November 11, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    the Moron and the Schmiffed have figured out that insulting all things Iranian gets responses which derail any meaningful conversation that could have been had. We should leave the two to pleasure one another.

    Literally billion$ have been spent by Saban, Adelson, Marcus, Singer and others to demonize Iran, and Iranians, Islam, etc. Money spent for less than naught; Their hyper-activism has made their cause smell overripe and themselves under scrutiny for distortion of democracy in the US. They don’t even influence American Jews, 84% of whom favor a Iran-US deal.

    Despite spending all that dosh, Iran and US are knee-deep in detente, and whether there will be a deal this month or next, the chips have fallen on a new ME order. Even the likes of Bret Stevens and Roger Cohen are talking as if a deal is done already. Stevens devotes an article to ‘after the deal.’ And Cohen is already angling for a cold war with Russia. Without Iran as the mutual enemy justifying the too-gross-to-watch US-Israel special relationship, Cohen “smells” a nice little cold war 2.0 with Russia which would be right up Israel’s street. Needing a mutual enemy is what Robert E. Hunter describes presciently enough in

    All the above blurb is to say if all that money and influence had zero effect on the natural trajectory of things, then please lets not be agitated by a pair of nincompoops pleasuring themselves on this thread. They amount to less than nothing; Ignore them.

    Instead, I think our hosts would like to see some discussion of potentials for China and Iran. Lets have at that.

  237. BiBiJon says:

    Jay says:
    November 11, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    “A minor, minor, very minor example, for our Brit friends here”

    Let me guess what he will say: Cameron blundered?

  238. kooshy says:

    BiBiJon says:
    November 11, 2014 at 7:22 pm


    Incidentally just saw this clip in this video Mr. Kharazi (Kahatami’s ambassador to France) correctly is talking about same concept of protecting and preserving the national icons, in this case Sardar Solimani.
    In another note Fariedeh Farahi in Lobelog tried to degrade and dismiss Sardar Solimani by jokingly comparing him (actually the Iranian leadership) to a selling concept of Hobbesian.
    For some expatriate Iranians any Iranian achievements, promotions, etc. etc. etc. brings about a burning pain there.

  239. M.Ali says:

    Iran stripped from hosting Volleyball tournament in another demonizing campaign. The reason being that we have arrested one person, which I have no idea what it has the fuck to do with the international volleyball federation!

    Maybe James Canning can help us here. Should Iran be “allowed” to make arrests of their own citizens?

    Iran’s response is not mentioned in any western media,


    1) The women was arrested outside the stadium
    2) She was arrested, released, after investigation, arrested again, but not if this has anything to do with the volleyball league
    3) Female spectators were already present in the stadium
    4) Currently, female spectators were also shown being available watching the league games

    In other news,

    In Mexico, 43 students were killed. The story seems to be that kids were protesting corruption, so the mayor ordered the local police to grab them, hand them over to the drug cartels, to be murdered.

    Can you imagine if something like this happened in Iran? Every media in the world and every politician would stop whatever they were doing, and it would be focused on Iran for the next 60 years. Western Politicians would try to outdo each other on the worst insults to heap on Iran. In Iran, a murderer is jailed and executed in sync with the law which reflect people’s desires (as it should be in a democratic system) and the world explodes over it.

  240. Nico says:

    Kooshy says:
    November 11, 2014 at 6:06 pm

    “IMO, degrading or stepping on, to demoralize one’s national / cultural including religious values, need to be immediately and full forcedly confronted to the bone of the intruder, no matter what method or techniques or reason is used, national values should not be allowed to be devalued by anyone…

    The trios Zios AHs of this site mostly resort to the cliche old technique…”

    Thank you for this post which unveils an universal truth.
    A nation strenght is not coming from its material power only, but first and foremost from its inner will to fight for its values coming from its coehsion, belief in its own manifest destiny and as a fundamental basis its necessary thriving civilizational and cultural self esteem/regard. And to this end is willing to make sacrifices to achieve its higher goeals.

    That is called a living civilization and country.

    Insulting Avicenna is OBVIOUSLY above and beyond healthy and wise self criticsm.

    For Jay : There is OBVISOULY no need to call at Avicenna merit, were it deserved or not. The matter is about the cultural mythos of a nation and is OBVISOULY beyond such consideration.

    BiBiJon says:
    November 11, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    “Literally billion$ have been spent by Saban, Adelson, Marcus, Singer and others to demonize Iran, and Iranians, Islam, etc. Money spent for less than naught; Their hyper-activism has made their cause smell overripe and themselves under scrutiny for distortion of democracy in the US. They don’t even influence American Jews, 84% of whom favor a Iran-US deal.”

    I apologize (not), for linking zerohedge articles.
    Few decades ago there were very many independent news paper with various ideas and opinions. Today that does not exist anymore. You have few papers with various shade of the same ideology.
    The real democracy and freedom is on the web.
    Sites like zerohedge are true heirs of investagative and free journalism.

    But you have the idiots (not naming them) still believing in the MSM and chuckling when such (unreliable ?) source is linked.
    This small introduction is for them: Just go F… O..

    And as a transition about Adelson and co, MSM, oligarchs and the so called US democracy and freedom of speech, you could just read this illuminating article.

  241. nahid says:

    The Ambassador says

    On balance, therefore, Rybakov’s “relative optimism” is justified. Moscow is already looking ahead in anticipation of forging a full-fledged strategic relationship with an Iran that has shaken off the Albatross of international sanctions. That is the meaning of the deal signed in Moscow on Tuesday whereby Russia will construct eight more nuclear reactor units in Iran further to the Bushehr plant.

  242. fyi says:

    nahid says:

    November 12, 2014 at 8:02 am

    It is not clear that these powers are prepared to accept Iran as a threshold nuclear weapon state.

    I might be wrong….

  243. Smith says:

    Finally after years of work the retarded class begins to actually work on my assignment questions beginning with an internet search. Well, at least it is a beginning.

    While every single day tens of thousands of new genuine life changing innovations come out of Western world, the retards have come up with a dubious product. I just hope it is not one of those cancer and HIV treatments which Iran had advertised for years, only later to be found out as lies and fakes. After all even if it is a genuine hi-tech product that was made some four five years ago, this would not prove Iran to be a knowledge based socio-economic system. Far from it. It only proves that this nearly 80 million population with access trillions of dollars has performed miserably even compared to a country such as Sudan.

    The innovation that comes not from a deep societal desire for discovery and exploration, is basically a fluke. It can never lift a nation out of its misery and cargo-cultism. There is innovation in Sudan too, much more effective than a single dubious product. Take this example in agriculture:

    But it will never cause Sudan to become a knowledge based economy. Since its people are oblivious to the foundation upon which science and technology rests, namely rational thought, causality, free will, continuous questioning of new and old ideas as well as the trust in a world which does not run on magic but on a set of natural laws understandable and discover-able by mankind. Things such as the water powered car invented in Pakistan or the innovation of AIDS curing beef kebab in Egypt which are hailed in Muslim societies happen exactly due to this disregard for foundations of natural sciences.

  244. Smith says:

    New Study Provides Insight into How Piquing Curiosity Changes Our Brains

    The more curious we are about a topic, the easier it is to learn information about that topic. A new study carried out by California University scientists provides insights into what happens in our brains when curiosity is piqued:

    What did Iranians do today?

  245. Smith says:

    So here is a review of my assignments for the retards of the class:

    1- Why 1.5 billion Muslims invent/innovate/discover in a couple of centuries less than 15 million Jews do in a couple of weeks?

    2- What did Iranians do today?

    3- Why Iran can not produce technology entrepreneurs like Bill Gates? (No, Babak Zanjanis and Karoubis do not count)

    This last question is actually not mine and it came from the class itself. Though I have touched and hinted at its answer, but I want the simpleton class to think for itself and come up with a proper answer.

  246. Smith says:

    God forbid if the cargo cult nation of Iran only once instead of importing cargo went ahead and spend a few hundred million dollars to innovate and solve its problems locally:

    Then they go and waste trillions of dollars.

  247. Ataune says:


    Based on your own writings here I believe your answers to your own questions would be,

    1- Because the are not and can ever be capable of doing better.
    2- Nothing. Like every other day.
    3- Because Iranians, and by extension Muslims, have an identity that doesn’t let them produce those kind of people

    One wonder, what’s even the reason to have a debate with someone who has such a black and white perception of the reality.

  248. Jay says:

    For diagnostic reference.

    From Wikipedia:

    “Patients suffering from grandiose delusions wrongly hold themselves at an extraordinary high status in their mind.”

    “… delusions of grandeur are principally a subtype of delusional disorder that occurs in patients suffering from a wide range of mental illnesses, including two-thirds of patients in manic state of bipolar disorder, half of those with schizophrenia and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders.”

    “According to the DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria for delusional disorder, grandiose-type symptoms include grossly exaggerated belief of:
    exceptional relationship to a divinity or famous person.”

  249. James Canning says:


    Brett Stephens of the Wall Street Journal continues to claim Obama would allow Iran to build nukes. I think he is mistaken.

  250. James Canning says:


    Are you claiming there was a great power capable of preventing Britain from building nukes?

  251. A-B says:

    Now, I’m NOT pointing a moral-finger at this, as reprehensible as it is, knowing how many – according to the only strategy they know how – would counter this by saying that the ‘exceptionally incompetent’ Iranians wouldn’t be able to do the same even if they wanted to, and how suddenly (i.e. only within this context) these experiments become meritorious and justified for the ‘good of humanity’. Furthermore, not only is the Good (or Truth) ‘better’ when it comes from the West, the Bad is ‘worse’ if it comes from Iran – i.e. if these experiments would be considered unethical, then they are MORE unethical if Iranians would conduct them!! (cf. the Iranian nuclear ‘issue’.) This at least according to the Fascist-Racist Western Sadists as well as the Masochistic self-loathing wretches who say “If Iranians suffered, it was due to their own fault. They were weak in a time when the world was in turmoil. Weak nations during times of turmoil have to suffer.” or “Better hammer. To hit himself on the head with”; those who are so delusional that they view themselves as ‘Architects’ when their ONLY strategy to counter the –according to them more formidable – Enemy is tit-for-tat but then they instantly ‘go flaccid’. Of course, not only they are no Architects but they are LESS than the [honorable] brick-layers – whom the loath – that actually DO something each day. Exactly as the Western pundits or academics – be they leftist, anti-imperialist, alarmist, etc. – are LESS than the [more honest] akhund-e roze-khun who MIGHT incite action, and not just discourage.

    Now, I AM pointing at these experiments and say: learn from it! So, look at the infamously classic picture from Harry Harlow’s study “monster mother” on baby monkies; the way the poor animal, deprived of its REAL mother, is clinging to the fake ‘mother’ should be a lesson to those who write

    “I don’t hate anyone. That would go against my beliefs”, or [now, read this!!!]

    “It is just one of some accounts I had made after the green movement tragedy, trying to fight a lone fight for Iran’s international image. The era between that tragedy and the “arab spring” was really hard and the online battle was fierce. Did ALOT and ALOT of editing … so that a positive image of Iran gets out there (some of the largest pages there on Iran are entirely my creation). Engineered viral net messages to give hope to Iranians and crush propaganda against Iran. It was fun. So these kind of idiots can not even catch up to the dust in my wake, let alone me.”

    I.e. to people who desperately cling to THEIR ‘truth’/‘reality’ and words they don’t even understand (despite their ALLEGEDLY high IQ!!) like the baby monkey did to the fake ‘mother’.

    Ergo; if you’re a Freudian-Pavlovian animal that is prone to manipulation of the Jew, then don’t pretend to be a Human, even less her Champion!


  252. Karl.. says:

    There were plenty of superpowers at that time , but that isnt the question but thanks for showing your view that some states, “supwerpowers”, are those that SHOULD rule the world. Typical imperaialist.

  253. A-B says:

    And continuing learning from Western [pop] culture, here is [part of] lyrics from ‘I’m Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally’ by Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails:

    “In the blur of serenity
    Where did everything get lost?
    The flowers of naïveté
    Buried in a layer of frost

    The smell of sunshine
    I remember sometimes

    Thought he had it all before they called his bluff
    Found out that his skin just wasn’t thick enough
    Wanted to go back to how it was before
    Thought he lost everything
    Then he lost a whole lot more

    A fool’s devotion
    Swallowed up in empty space
    The tears of regret
    Frozen to the side of his face

    The smell of sunshine
    I remember sometimes

    I’ve done all I can do
    Could I please come with you?
    Sweet smell of sunshine
    I remember sometimes”


  254. BiBiJon says:

    James Canning says:
    November 12, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    I’m sure by now even you must have figured out that the word “allow” is demeaning and robs folks the wrong way. So unless your programming includes a touch of sadism, try finding another word, e.g. it will be unacceptable, etc.

    But, I tend to follow general Dempsy, and James Clapper on the issue. According to them, there is no military solution to a country such as Iran deciding to go build a nuclear weapon. Sanctions, and diplomatic isolation tend to be answered by defiance in the very area that was claimed to be the reason for the imposition of coercive measures.

    So, I guess by use of the clumsy word “allow” you mean US would do its upmost to convince Iran not to make the political decision to weaponize. That could mean a range of things, iminently doable, e.g. establish better relations between Iran, and NATO countries, especially the US. Have Iran as part of a security architecture in the region that in turn guids the political decision to not cross the threshold.

    If that is what you mean, then, by Joe, I find myself agreeing with you.

  255. Nico says:

    For diagnostic reference from Urban Dictionary.

    Language that academics use to bamboozle and confuse poor, unsuspecting students. The language encorporates long and technical words designed to display intelligence and knowledge of literary terms but all it really shows is that the author is an academic WANKER! Or A.D for short.

    “A.D- A knowledge of contextual information broadens ones analytical and probing skills that adds dimension to the concept of existential construct developed after World War One.

    Student- I don’t get it!

    A.D- That’s because it really doesn’t mean anything and I could probably sum up my point in one sentence because it is so shallow and brief but I would rather confuse you with my extensive knowledge of fuck all!

    Student- Aha! Academic Wankery!”

  256. Rd. says:

    James Canning says:

    “Are you claiming there was a great power capable of preventing Britain from building nukes?”

    james, are you implying the US/UK are capable of preventing Iran from gaining nuclear technology and know how? Historical FACTS dictates you are dead wrong!! though, so long as your head is buried in your back side that spectacle is more worthy of a circus act than intellectualism.

  257. A-B says:

    Typo A-B says, November 12, 2014 at 1:31 pm:

    Ergo; if you’re a Freudian-Pavlovian animal that is prone to manipulation BY the Jew, then don’t pretend to be a Human …

  258. Rehmat says:

    Netanyahu has been trying his best to sabotage US-Iran nuclear deal before the current deadline November 24 in order to maintain Israel’s nuclear supremacy in the region. On the other hand, American traitors in the Congress are campaigning for new wars against Iran, Syria and Ukraine to divert world’s attention from Israel’s Nazi policy toward native Palestinians. All this Jewish-led anti-Iran-Russia war rhetoric have brought Russia and China closer to Iran than before.

    On Tuesday, the head of the Rosatom, Sergey Kirienko, and the chief of the Atomic Energy Agency of Iran, Ali Akbar Salehi, signed an deal under which Russia agreed to build eight new nuclear reactors. Russia also agreed to accept Iranian oil to cover the cost of the construction of the new nuclear plants.

    As part of the deal, the nuclear fuel for the future reactors will be provided by Russia during the whole life cycle of the new reactors. Spent fuel will be returned for processing and storage.

    The first two reactors will be installed at the existing Bushehr power-generating plant. The plant took almost took four decades to complete due to USraeli vicious international campaign. It’s construction contract was awarded to a German firm in the 1970s during pro-USrael King Reza Shah. After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the German firm was forced to withdraw. Russian firm began working on the abandoned plant in 1995 and commissioned it in 2012.

    State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters on Wednesday that Russia’s new contract with Iran was “technically separate from the negotiations over a nuclear deal”.

    The Jewish media while vilifying Vladmir Putin over his support for Syria and Iran, is afraid to admit that Putin was even admired by several Israeli mass-killers including Gen Ariel Sharon, who approved Putin’s Muslims’ ethnic-cleansing in Chechnya by saying, it’s what Israelis should have done in Lebanon (reported by Marl N. Katz at Jewish Middle East Quarterly in Winter 2005 issue).

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and his US counterpart John Kerry called on Wednesday for an agreement on a nuclear deal with Iran to be reached as soon as possible.

    Like many political analysts, I too believe that even if the US sign a deal with Iran over its nuclear program, there it wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on as Obama administration is a two-bit punk puppet of Jewish Lobby and it will find some new excuse to blame Iran for violating the agreement.

  259. Empty says:


    Thank you for the posts. Yes, there is decidedly a basic difference between the worldview that is rooted in “the end justifies the means” and one which is rooted in “the end and the means must both be ethically justified.”

  260. kooshy says:

    A-B says:
    November 12, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    “Furthermore, not only is the Good (or Truth) ‘better’ when it comes from the West, the Bad is ‘worse’ if it comes from Iran – i.e. if these experiments would be considered unethical, then they are MORE unethical if Iranians would conduct them!! (cf. the Iranian nuclear ‘issue’.)”

    AB/ all enjoy

    In line with concerns and thoughts you raise, today when reading the comment section on abc News story regarding the test flight of Iranian reverse engineered RQ170 , I came across a very well argued sharp reply by a dismissive everything Iranian commentator. Since on this site we also have similar wana be doubters and discounters on Iranian achievements, I thought is good to post the back and forth comments by one of dismissive types and the sharp reply that shout him up and apparently got the abc moderator to delete the sharp reasoning he couldn’t dismiss other than delete.
    Juvus’ earlier reply comment to Tony Su was deleted by abc (I suspect the abc moderator couldn’t stand it) but I copied and kept a copy here we go, the first reply is the first comment he/she made which later was deleted.

    Tony Su • 12 hours ago
    You can buy an RC flying wing at most RC hobby stores. If it took 3yrs to “reverse engineer” readily available technology, keep it going. But, the big question is what materials are used and various electronics, control and propulsion it carries.

    This comment was deleted.

    (You don’t believe they can reverse engineer a drone, but if they had come out and said they’ve got a nuclear bomb you wouldnt waste anytime believing it was true. It is a lot harder to build a nuclear weapon than it is to reverse engineer a drone. So this goes I show a lot of people ideas of Iran abilities are based in bs and prejudices.
    Iranians are only geniuses at building nuclear bombs. Everything else they are down right retarded. XD)

    juvus > Tony Su • 8 hours ago
    Of all my years commenting I have never had my comment deleted before. That was down right weird.
    But here it is again.

    If Iran had said they had a nuclear bomb you wouldn’t waste any time believing them. It is a lot harder to make a nuclear bomb than to reverse engineer a drone. This goes to show that our perceptions of Iran’s abilities are bs and based on prejudices. We mock them when they say they say they have drones and other conventional weapons, but believe they are capable of making nuclear weapons without batting an eye.

    Iranians are geniuses at making nuclear weapons, but retards at making everything else. XD.

  261. Amir says:

    آقا از ما گفتن بود! این اسمیت جزئی از یک حلقه جاسوسی هست هی میگه ایرانیا هیچی نیستن هیچ ابتکاری ندارن که یکی عصبانی بشه یک سری از اسرار رو لو بده. ولش کنین

  262. Amir says:

    And if you are wondering what purpose foreign agents are pursuing by gathering information about irrelevant fields like “gas turbines” or “reverse engineering” or such, EVERYTHING is part of پدافند غیرعامل. I mean literally everything and anything. One of the first targets that was bombed in 2003 in Iraq was the optic fiber near Baghdad that passed through river ِدجله. How were they able to do so? Because they knew its location. So! Zip your lips and save the ship, as the Yanks used to say; the giant ship of IR of Iran.

  263. BiBiJon says:

    Out of every 1000

    900 are miserable, 99 are OK, and one out of a thousand is a really happy camper.

  264. fyi says:

    A-B says:

    November 12, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    I want to live.

    I want other people to live healthy and productive lives; “the most useful thing to a human being is another human being.”

    Thus the end justifies the means; without animal disease models millions of human beings that are alive today to lived to a ripe old age would have been dead.

    There is no other way.

    Now, I want to live.

    I want Iranians to live & Iranian state to continue to exist.

    There is no other means of achieving it but through a nuclear-armed Iran.

    Aims justifies the means.

  265. Jay says:

    kooshy says:
    November 13, 2014 at 12:26 am

    I ran into a former neighbor this morning at the local coffee shop. He is a retired Navy man – a polite southerner. After some short pleasant exchanges, he asked about Iran’s replica of the drone. I said, “it appears that Iran has done a marvelous job of reverse engineering the drone”. He smiled and replied, “do you really think they have the expertise?!”. Armed with your little repartee, I replied, Tom, “if I recall correctly, you were the one that told me that those genius Iranians would build a nuclear bomb in no time!” I mean, it does not take a lot of imagination to think that these genius folk could reverse engineer a drone?! He took a pause, collected himself, and said: “you academic folk always try to bamboozle people with smart language. I said they are smart in building bombs but not drones!”

    Tom and I left the coffee shop together. I think he still feels bamboozled by what he calls “academic language” – although nothing I said was really “academic”. Some folk can’t get facts like great technological progress in Iran get in the way of their beliefs, so they have to invent reasons to dismiss facts. They either shoot the messenger, ignore the message, insist on ignorance, or pick and choose a variation of these.

  266. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 13, 2014 at 11:11 am

    This is not new.

    In World War II, US Marines fighting Japanese kept telling themselves that it was the German Officers that were directing the Japanese artillery; surely those “Yellows” could not be so superbly lead?

    US Peace Crop volunteers went into such countries as the Philippines, Viet Nam, Guatemala and elsewhere in 1960s in the absence of people with professional and managerial skills in those countries.

    But today, these courtiers no longer need such help; they have their own experts.

    The world has changed but Americans and Europeans have not changed with it; they still act as though they are the “Universal State” and everywhere else is a “Save Reserve”.

  267. fyi says:

    “Savage Reserve”

  268. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 13, 2014 at 11:26 am

    Not new, I agree. But, illustrative of the pervasive wish to live in self-imposed ignorance because the alternative is to learn something new. What a scary thought!

  269. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 13, 2014 at 11:34 am

    That is what happened to Muslims; centuries of willful ignorance in which they persisted until they were decimated and completely dominated by the Europeans.

  270. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    November 13, 2014 at 10:25 am

    Oh, these hypocrites already use and imitate all the stuff from West, quite shamelessly I must add. Consider these examples:

    * They use all the Western medicines and make up, which were developed using animal models. In fact they feel so much entitled to it that when they can not get those medicines from international markets, then they start crying, weeping, begging and collecting sympathies of the Western world. So much so that they forget that they are this big animal lovers.

    * When they are eating joojeh kebab or kaleh pacheh, they have all forgotten about their love for animals.

    * In medical universities of Iran, they imitate all Western stuff. From massive human dissection halls to chopping the head of rabbits and experimenting with the effects of drugs on the guts of fresh and still moving rabbit intestines. They pour so much drugs in the eyes of rabbits in these universities that most of the rabbits are already blind.

    * The act of loving animals is actually something new and also a creation of the West. You will never see the kind of love animals in Western zoos enjoy in Iranians zoos. You will never see an Iranian explorer having left civilization and started living with animals in the wild in order to understand them. Even with the animals that live in Iranian ecosystem it is the West that gives us knowledge about them, not the Iranians. From smallest insects to the largest animals.

    Their hypocrisy has no end. If they had even a shred of honor left in their pathetic bones somewhere, and if they actually believed what they are preaching here, they would never go to a doctor who operates on Western knowledge and would refuse all medicines created by the West, including vaccinations, antibiotics, analgesics, etc etc. But I have not seen even one Iranian who is ready to give up these.

    Their aim is the same as the Western people. It is only that they are hypocrites and want only the cargo not the pain and work associated with creating that cargo. And yeah, the kharr retards believe that they have created whole new classes of antibiotics and antineoplastics but they are keeping it as a state secret so that the West and along with it the rest of the world including Iranians do not benefit from it. Such is the mentality of a kharr nation. And then, the kharr goes and discloses to the West, the exact location of the world’s largest helium/methane reserve on planet earth so that they can come and extract trillions of dollars worth of these precious gases while the whole kharr nation keeps looking on from the shore.

  271. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 13, 2014 at 11:54 am

    We depart ways on this account.

    I believe it is irresponsible to use of such labels as “Islam” and “Europeans” because it produces a climate of ignorance. As Ed Said has pointed out, it is reckless to affirm the personification of large and complex entities such as “the West” and “Islam”, and present complicated concepts such as identity and culture in a cartoon-ish way. It is not true to say that the West is always more virtuous as compared to the Islam.

    It is true to assert that on the basis of prima facie evidence westerners have been more industrious in accomplishing some of their goals in the past three centuries – “some” because it is also true that westerners have failed to achieve many of their goals in the societal and cultural spheres.

  272. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    November 13, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    That is fine but please note that the late Edward Said was wrong – he was ultimately a beggar knocking at the gates of the “Universal State” to be admitted into it form the “Savage Reserve”.

    The correct approach was that of the late Mr. Khomeini:

    “We are a different people with our culture and tradition; accepts us the way we are or leave us alone.”

  273. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    November 13, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    Yes, you need to have and maintain a personal commitment to Truth: Scientific Truth, Religious Truth, Philosophical Truth and so on and so forth.

    Be not afraid where that commitment and search for Truth would lead you; Truth is your Sheild.

  274. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    November 13, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    Edward Said was wrong on many accounts. However, the truth that underpins his statement is independent of other things he may have been wrong about.

    It is wrong to personify large and complex entities.

    I have no quarrel with your point with regards to the approach of late Mr. Khomeini.

  275. James Canning says:


    Your contention there is a danger Iran will “cease to exist” if it fails to build nukes, is nonsense.

  276. James Canning says:


    I have noted many times Iran is able to build nukes. Able to build nukes. Is this difficult for your to understand? Able to build nukes, if the P5+1 allowed this to happen.

  277. James Canning says:


    I obviously comprehend that some of those who post on this site, see it as intolerable for any element of “permission” to enter the discussion. Hence, the taking of offense to my use of the word “allow” even if that is the most accurate word available.

  278. James Canning says:


    No country with the ability to prevent Britain from building nukes, wished to prevent this from taking place.

  279. Karl.. says:

    No one wanted UK to have nukes, they did get them anyway. Understand that Iran if they want have that right too. You get that?

  280. nico says:

    Jay says:
    November 13, 2014 at 12:20

    What is the substance of your longgggg speech ?
    Academic wankery aside…


  281. kooshy says:

    Amir jaan

    Thank you for the link, of the interest to what we discuss is the last item on the ministry’s list of recommendation, this is exactly what these guy’ intention is, and what needs to be dearly protected as well as be beaten back to their bone with the high ground morality that ever since the beginning existed in Iranian culture, history and literature that never existed and never will exist in the violent inhuman western culture.
    Clearly they intend to degrade our national pride making our intellectual/educated class disgusted with their identity in their hope as a result the demonized mentality of our creative class will eventually trickle down to the larger working and security level and makes the country defenseless on every aspect of their living affairs. Hopefully younger Iranian generation of post revolution will not allow this to happen again to our dear Iran.

    Payandeh Iran

    سازمان های جاسوسی می خواهند:
    الف- اطلاعات و اخبار مورد نیاز خود را جمع آوری کنند.
    ب- نقاط ضعف کشور را شناسایی و آنها را تشدید نمایند.
    ت- نقاط قوت کشور را شناسایی و آنها را تضعیف نمایند.
    ث- در توانایی ها و مقدورات ما نفوذ و آنها را مورد تهاجم قرار دهند.
    ج- انگیزه های ملی، میهنی و ارزشی ما را تخریب نمایند.

  282. Karl.. says:

    “We must never allow #Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, period.”

    Hmm, where have I heard this recently?

  283. James Canning says:


    By “we” I take it you mean Russia, China and other powers

  284. James Canning says:


    Six leading world powers are agreed that Iran would not be allowed to build nukes.

  285. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    November 13, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    The hope of Axis Powers, Russia, China, and India is that Iranians will agree to another extension of Joint Plan of Action.

    And more such extensions in the future – that is a frozen Iranian nuclear program.

    The JPOA was cost-free to Axis Powers, Russia and China and India.

    They wish to continue it – if they can.

    Iranians, in my opinion, need to be prepared to walk away on 24-th of November.

  286. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    November 13, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    The only deal acceptable to Iranians will leave them within NPT but as a threshold nuclear-weapons state.

    Axis Powers, Russia, China, and India are not prepared to accept that, as far as I can tell.

    In fact, the recent nuclear deal with Russia for additional nuclear reactors in Iran is contingent on the successful conclusion of the negotiations between P5+1 and Iran. Like the trips of EU businessmen to Iran, this deal is also meant to tempt the Iranians to relent.

    Watch my words as the negotiations fail and there would be no reactors built in Iran by Russia.