What Gaza’s Crisis Shows About Israel’s Ambitions and America’s Decline

Al Jazeera has published our latest piece, titled “Gaza’s Crisis, Israeli Ambitions, and US Decline.”  To read it, click here; we’ve also appended the text below.  As always, we encourage readers to post comments, Facebook likes, etc., both on this site and on Al Jazeera’s Web site.

Gaza’s Crisis, Israeli Ambition, and US Decline

As Israel’s military kills and injures hundreds of civilians in Gaza—whose population Israel is legally obligated to protect as an occupying power—people around the world, including in the United States, wonder why official Washington appears so indifferent to even the most graphic instances of “collateral damage.”

The primary reason is that most American policy elites still believe the United States needs to dominate the Middle East, and that Israeli military assertiveness is instrumentally useful to this end—a mindset the Israel lobby artfully reinforces.

Since World War II—and especially since the Cold War’s end—the US political class has seen Middle Eastern hegemony as key to their country’s global primacy. For two decades following Israel’s creation, it contributed little to this; thus, the United States extended it virtually no military or economic assistance, beyond negligible amounts of food aid.

Washington started providing substantial assistance to Israel only after it demonstrated a unilateral capacity, in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, to capture and hold territory from Arab states allied, for the most part, with the Soviet Union.  Support for Israel grew through the rest of the Cold War; after the Cold War, US policymakers doubled down on the US-Israeli “special relationship,” calculating that facilitating Israel’s military superiority vis-à-vis its neighbours would help solidify US post-Cold War dominance over the strategically vital Middle East.

The instrumental nature of the “special relationship” also shaped what seems, from outside, Washington’s chronically ineffectual stewardship of the so-called Middle East peace process—especially in seeking a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  Notwithstanding rhetorical professions, neither Israel nor the US has ever wanted a two-state outcome.

Palestinian self-determination precluded 

Israel’s national security strategy has long rested on a military doctrine—which Israeli officials misleadingly label “deterrence”—requiring that Israel’s military be capable of using force first, disproportionately, and whenever and wherever in its neighbourhood Israeli politicians want.  Pursuing a two-state solution seriously would ultimately curb this freedom of unilateral military initiative.

Moreover, for a Zionist project with inherently religious roots, a two-state outcome would mean surrendering too much of the Jewish Biblical homeland to sustain the Jewish immigration on which Israel’s long-term future depends.

Likewise, the US never intended the peace process to help Palestinians achieve real self-determination—for that would inevitably constrain Israel’s exercise of military supremacy over its neighbourhood, attenuating America’s own drive for Middle Eastern dominance.  The process has instead been conducted to empower Israel, to subordinate Palestinians and other Arabs into an increasingly militarised US sphere of influence, and to leverage Arab states’ buy-in to this scenario.

These dynamics are vividly displayed in Israeli and US approaches to Gaza.  The roots of Gazans’ current trials go back to 2005, when Israel withdrew soldiers and settlers from Gaza.  Widely credited with having pushed Israel to take these steps, Hamas won internationally supervised Palestinian elections the following year.

But Gaza’s occupation was far from over.  While Israel had withdrawn soldiers and settlers, it hardly let Gazans exercise anything approaching sovereignty:  Israel’s military continued exerting strict control over their access to the world—whether by land, sea, or air—and over flows of food, medicine, and other essential goods into their territory.  For nearly a decade, this siege has eroded living conditions for 1.7 million people.

After becoming the elected governors of Gaza’s population, Hamas offered Israel a long-term truce, if Israel withdrew to pre-1967 borders.  Instead of negotiating with Hamas, to consolidate a sustainable and truly self-governing entity in Gaza that could ground broader conflict resolution, Israel and the US rejected Palestinians’ electoral choice and worked in multiple ways to isolate Hamas and undermine its popularity by increasing civilian suffering in Gaza—including, in 2006, 2008-2009, and 2012, through military assaults inflicting thousands of Palestinian casualties.

In some respects, this approach “succeeded,” for a while.  By this spring, Hamas was at what even ardent supporters described as its weakest point, in terms of financial resources and regional backing, since its founding.  (To be sure, Hamas contributed to this by abandoning its base in Syria and counting on Egypt’s short-lived Muslim Brotherhood government to become its biggest regional backer.)

US failure

But Israel’s insistence on perpetuating occupation—even without settlements—is renewing Hamas’ resistance agenda.  Earlier this week, after Israel accepted an Egyptian ceasefire proposal that would have done nothing to address the ongoing siege, Hamas made its own proposal: a ten-year truce, including a comprehensive ceasefire—if Israel met a set of ten demands.

Among them: opening all land crossings into Gaza, lifting the naval blockade, establishing an international airport and a seaport, freeing all prisoners arrested in the Israeli military’s current campaign, and committing not to re-enter Gaza for a decade.

Israel, of course, is not about to accede to any of this. And so the world waits to see if a ceasefire can be brokered, or whether Israel’s military, after bombing at least 1,800 sites in Gaza since July 8, is mounting a “boots on the ground” operation there which, Israeli officials warn, could last “many months.”

Among this situation’s many tragic aspects, one is particularly galling:  After strategically failed interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and (by proxy) Syria, it is abundantly evident that Washington’s quest to dominate the Middle East has not just failed.  This quest has sapped US capacity to shape positive strategic outcomes in the region and, at least in relative terms, weakened the United States as a global player.  Looking ahead, the experience of the Arab Awakening casts further doubt on the long-term plausibility of co-opting unrepresentative Arab governments into a US-led regional order that, among other things, enshrines Israel’s perpetual military ascendancy.  Yet, US policy elites stick with their hegemonic script.

The alternatives to Washington’s failed quest for hegemony are twofold:  to shift US strategy towards cultivating a stable balance of power in the Middle East and to promote greater reliance on international law and institutions as contributors to regional and global stability.  Either or both would compel fundamental revision of US posture towards Israel.

Cultivating a stable regional balance will take serious engagement with all relevant actors, including those (Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran) that seek to constrain Israel through both hard and soft power.  It will also require the United States to stop enabling Israel’s unfettered freedom of military initiative, which contributes to regional instability.  Similarly, promoting international legal frameworks as strategic stabilisers is meaningless unless Washington stops shielding Israel from the political consequences of thwarting them—whether by regularly violating international humanitarian law or by opting out of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and developing the region’s only indigenous nuclear arsenal.

Unfortunately for Gaza’s people and US interests, the US political class remains deeply resistant to these imperatives.

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

161 Responses to “What Gaza’s Crisis Shows About Israel’s Ambitions and America’s Decline”

  1. fyi says:

    The Leveretts:

    I think your analysis would be more complete of the reality of the situation if you spend some time on the religious ramifications of the current war in and for Palestine.

    I am not suggesting adoption of views similar to mine, rather an honorable mention of the religious dimensions of this conflict and its adverse effects on the United States – domestically and internationally.

    For example, the hatred of fly-over-America for Islam, did it grow in tandem with the US support for Israel?

  2. Smith says:

    One has to accept that depending on the pure good will of another forever, in the matters of geopolitics is not a wise course of action.

    The only way for peace to prevail is not if one party becomes more “humane” or her friends becoming more “considerate” for the opposing party.

    These are childish cravings. They do not happen in real world.

    In real world, the thing that keeps peace is a balance of power. The deterrence brings peace. Right now no such thing exists in that part of the world. Israel is nuclear armed and has even the Samson Option. Her supporters are also nuclear armed.

    The opposing forces are still living in stone age in technological terms. And even their supporters are not nuclear armed either. There is no deterrence and no balance of power. Therefore no expectation of peace can be had.

    This time around, Bantustans are supported by the powerful states of the world and even by UN. The Wahabi/Takfiri voilent movements have eliminated all good will among the world’s non-Muslim population for Islam. Under such conditions, this is the best people of Gaza can hope for. And technically, Iron Dome has proven to be a huge success almost sealing the Aerospace of Gaza from the rest of Israel. This will have implications in future with regard to both Gaza and South Lebanon.

  3. Karl.. says:

    Smith
    from earlier..

    I meant in the interest of Russia to “break free” from US/west, isnt it time for that?

  4. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    July 19, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    According to this report, US Intelligence warned some one in Lebanon about an impending attack – and Hezbollah neutralized that threat:

    http://www.fardanews.com/fa/news/355252/حزب-الله-طرح-تروریست‌ها-را-نقش-برآب-کرد

  5. Pirouz says:

    I think the Leverett’s perspectives on Palestine are brutally honest. A kind of “tough love” explanation for we Americans interested in foreign policy.

    Juan Cole had an interesting analogy in one of his recent posts on the suject:

    “Imagine if the Chinese occupied Alabama and strode around Birmingham armed and in Chinese military uniforms. Imagine if they started importing millions of Chinese people into Alabama. What if they disarmed the Alabamans and pushed them off the land they’d lived on for centuries, stealing water and other resources? What if, when asked by now homeless families whose houses had been confiscated or blown up, what the reason was, the Chinese replied this way? That the Native Americans were East Asians & the ones who remained behind were ancestors of the Chinese and their eastern branch that crossed the Bering Straits became the original inhabitants of Alabama, and so China’s claim much preceded that of recent immigrants from Europe What do you think the people of Alabama would do to those Chinese occupiers and settlers?”

    Juan went on to apologize to his Chinese friends for putting forth his thought experiement. However, being a person of partial indigenous American descent, I thought it was really telling of the man that he didn’t apologize to Native Americans.

    Five years ago I stated that I believed the Zionist colonial project had 60 years left to it, based on the South African and Algerian examples. But I have to say, given the mind frame of even persons like Cole, the Israelis continue to seek the success achived here on our continent. But in the current Israeli case, they just don’t have the numerical supriority to maintain it past 55 years. Anyway, that’s my sorry forecast for this situation.

  6. James Canning says:

    I think Israel can enjoy wealth and security within its pre-1967 borders. Regrettably, the foolish US Congress has in effect encouraged Israel’s insane illegal colonisation programme in the West Bank.

  7. James Canning says:

    In The New York Times July 18th, Nathan Thrall had a very fine opinion piece: “How the West chose war in Gaza”.

  8. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 19, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    Let’s see what happens. In practical terms, Russia is already free. They have strong enough science and technology foundation that they do not need West to take care of their needs. Russia also has huge natural resources. In addition they also have a first class military armed with nuclear weapons and a permanent seat at security council.

    And let’s not forget that, West specially the EU needs Russia more than Russia needs them. Russia exports some 8 billion barrel of oil and condensate per day in addition to its huge amounts of natural gas exports. Russia can cause havoc with western economies if it chooses to close the taps and go towards a militaristic approach, forcing Western to increase their military spending with higher energy prices.

    Russia knows this. And Russians are trying to recover the grounds they lost with the break up of Soviet Union. But all this aside, the point is that Iranians regardless of what they can get or not get out of this new developing situation, should rise up and take care of their needs. Overall, even if Russia becomes more confrontational with West, or alternatively more friendly with West, Iranians will always have to depend on themselves.

  9. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 19, 2014 at 1:55 pm

    Well, that is strange. Because officially US had announced that they do not have any intel on Isis just weeks ago with the fiasco in Iraq. Nothing. Zilch. This while they are snooping on the whole planet.

    One thing is sure. US is again allied with Qaeda, Taliban, and Wahabis. The few years of mild “friction” after 9/11 are now over. In Libya they put Qaeda in charge. In Syria they are arming and funding them. In Iraq they colluded with them and refused to help the democratic Iraqi government and directly sided with Isis and refused to give any intel on them to Iraqi government.

    It is hard to believe that such a thing has occurred. The Iranian newspapers can be very gullible at times, specially when it comes to matters of US.

  10. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 19, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    Typo correction: some 8 million barrels of oil and condensate

  11. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    Right, West needs Russia on Iran, Syria, my thought was that they could use these topics (for example transfer the S-300 to Iran to name one example) to get back at west and their anti-russian stance and sanctioning. To me they get alot of this bs lately, imo its time to get back at that. Today the sanctioned some people in america, a start even though totally insignificant.

  12. fyi says:

    All:

    What to expect from the expected Mrs. Clinton Presidency:

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-the-clintons-failed-to-heed-lessons-of-treaty-of-versailles/

    My money would be on a war with Iran

  13. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    July 19, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Axis Powers will be going down the sanctions route and will harm Russia.

    There is no going back now; the die is cast and the swords are engaged…

    The critical situation is Iraq for Iran as well for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia – one would hope that ISIS incursion into Kuwait and Saudi Arabia will wreck those societies as the Shia will begin to arm….

    Oh yes, and then in December the Axis Powers will plan for the naval blockade of Iran while ISIS marches towards the oil wells of Southern Persian Gulf…

  14. Karl.. says:

    fyi

    Can Russia do anything to counter these acts (sanctions) in your opinion? Could they do anything in return so to speak?

    This video might be of interest of this discussion too I guess.
    Apparently from the russian gov.
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=259_1405792314
    Doesnt seem Russia want to play the game that west have started. Reasonable, although for how long could they take it is the big question I guess.

  15. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    The poor performance of the Iraqi army against Isis owes a great deal to the placing of political allies of Nouri al-Maliki into military positions even if they are not qualified to hold such positions. This mistake was obviously not the fault of the US.

  16. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 19, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    That could be so. But you have to realize that Russians do not consider Iranians as their friends and vice versa. So they will always fall shorter than providing strategic benefits to each other. Unfortunately we now have a pro-western government in Iran so an aggressive diplomacy with Russia to benefit Iran is off. During Ahmadinejad when he tried to develop a strategic partnership with Russia, a pro-western government was in Moscow and the Russians due to their hubris saw Iran’s offers as begging and they refused Iranian request.

    Iran is now on its own. Russia and China even ganged up during Ahmadinejad era and blocked Iran from becoming a full member of Shanghai Cooperating Council under the pretext of Iran being under sanctions and therefore not worthy of membership. Irony has it that, now Russia itself is under sanctions. The only strategic friend that now Iran has is its know how to build nuclear weapons. That is it. As Americans are ever more itching to start up a world war, only countries that have nuclear weapons can deter from being invaded and consumed.

  17. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    “Unfortunately we now have a pro-western government in Iran so an aggressive diplomacy with Russia to benefit Iran is off.”

    I have also seen some indications of this and when I see it I am often reminded myself of the ridiculous Abu mazen that is also eager please western powers and israeli leaders (of course Iran isnt a sellout like him but there are some similtaries that could grow).

  18. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    July 19, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    The only place Russia can retaliate is in the P5+1 negotiations with Iran – by increasing the flow of technology to Iran through barter deals.

    And if Iran can withstand the siege meant to destroy her social fabric by inducing hyper-inflation, so can Russia.

    The great power rivalry is back and Iran and the Shia Crescent must set their site on being another Great Power.

  19. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    July 19, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    Yes, the poor performance of Iraqi Army clearly vindicates what I had stated before – there is no state there and we only have militia that are going to fight it out for territory.

    Iran should be ready to occupy Basra and Southern Iraqi Oil fields and prepare for a prolonged war of attrition in and around Baghdad.

    Before that move, I think Iran will have to leave NPT – there would be no other way at that time.

    But we have to wait and see if that time has come….

    Again, a means should be found to take the war to Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE, and Turkey.

  20. Dan Cooper says:

    Gross Violations of Human Rights

    Why Not Sanctions for Israel?

    In Israel, a country stolen from the Palestinians, fanatics control the government. One of the fanatics is the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Last week Netanyahu called for “crippling sanctions” against Iran.

    The kind of blockade that Netanyahu wants qualifies as an act of war. Israel has long threatened to attack Iran on its own but prefers to draw in the US and NATO.

    Why does Israel want to initiate a war between the United States and Iran?

    Is Iran attacking other countries, bombing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure?

    No. These are crimes committed by Israel and the US.

    Is Iran evicting peoples from lands they have occupied for centuries and herding them into ghettoes?

    No, that’s what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for 60 years.

    What is Iran doing?

    Iran is developing nuclear energy, which is its right as a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Iran’s nuclear energy program is subject to inspections by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), which consistently reports that its inspections find no diversion of enriched uranium to a weapons program.

    The position taken by Israel, and by Israel’s puppet in Washington, is that Iran must not be allowed to have the rights as a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty that every other signatory has, because Iran might divert enriched uranium to a weapons program.

    In other words, Israel and the US claim the right to abrogate Iran’s right to develop nuclear energy. The Israeli/US position has no basis in international law or in anything other than the arrogance of Israel and the United States.

    The hypocrisy is extreme. Israel is not a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and developed its nuclear weapons illegally on the sly, with, as far as we know, US help.

    As Israel is an illegal possessor of nuclear weapons and has a fanatical government that is capable of using them, crippling sanctions should be applied to Israel to force it to disarm.

    Israel qualifies for crippling sanctions for another reason. It is an apartheid state, as former US President Jimmy Carter demonstrated in his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.

    The US led the imposition of sanctions against South Africa because of South Africa’s apartheid practices. The sanctions forced the white government to hand over political power to the black population. Israel practices a worse form of apartheid than did the white South African government. Yet, Israel maintains that it is “anti-semitic” to criticize Israel for a practice that the world regards as abhorrent.

    What remains of the Palestinian West Bank that has not been stolen by Israel consists of isolated ghettoes. Palestinians are cut off from hospitals, schools, their farms, and from one another. They cannot travel from one ghetto to another without Israeli permission enforced at checkpoints.

    The Israeli government’s explanation for its gross violation of human rights comprises the greatest collection of lies in world history. No one, with the exception of American “christian zionists,” believes one word of it.

    The United States also qualifies for crippling sanctions. Indeed, the US is over-qualified. On the basis of lies and intentional deception of the US Congress, the US public, the UN and NATO, the US government invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and used the “war on terror” that Washington orchestrated to overturn US civil liberties enshrined in the US Constitution. One million Iraqis have paid with their lives for America’s crimes and four million are displaced. Iraq and its infrastructure are in ruins, and Iraq’s professional elites, necessary to a modern organized society, are dead or dispersed. The US government has committed a war crime on a grand scale. If Iran qualifies for sanctions, the US qualifies a thousand times over.

    No one knows how many women, children, and village elders have been murdered by the US in Afghanistan. However, the American war of aggression against the Afghan people is now in its ninth year. According to the US military, an American victory is still a long ways away. Admiral Michael Mullen, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, declared in August that the military situation in Afghanistan is “serious and deteriorating.”

    Older Americans can look forward to the continuation of this war for the rest of their lives, while their Social Security and Medicare rights are reduced in order to free up funds for the US armaments industry. Bush/Cheney and Obama/Biden have made munitions the only safe stock investment in the United States.

    What is the purpose of the war of aggression against Afghanistan? Soon after his inauguration, President Obama promised to provide an answer but did not. Instead, Obama quickly escalated the war in Afghanistan and launched a new one in Pakistan that has already displaced 2 million Pakistanis. Obama has sent 21,000 more US troops into Afghanistan and already the US commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, is requesting 20,000 more.

    Obama is escalating America’s war of aggression against the Afghanistan people despite three high profile opinion polls that show that the American public is firmly opposed to the continuation of the war against Afghanistan.

    Sadly, the ironclad agreement between Israel and Washington to war against Muslim peoples is far stronger than the connection between the American public and the American government.

    At a farewell dinner party last Thursday for Israel’s military attache in Washington, who is returning to Israel to become deputy chief of staff of the Israeli military, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Under secretary of Defense Michele Flournoy, and and Dan Shapiro, who is in charge of Middle East affairs on the National Security Council, were present to pay their respects.

    Admiral Mullen declared that the US will always stand with Israel;

    No matter how many war crimes Israel commits.

    No matter how many women and children Israel murders.

    No many how many Palestinians Israel drives from their homes, villages, and lands.

    If truth could be told, the true axis-of-evil is the United States and Israel.

    Millions of Americans are now homeless because of foreclosures. Millions more have lost their jobs, and even more millions have no access to health care. Yet, the US government continues to squander hundreds of billions of dollars on wars that serve no US purpose.

    President Obama and General McChrystal have taken the position that they know best, the American public be damned.

    It could not be made any clearer that the President of the United States and the US military have no regard whatsoever for democracy, human rights, and international law. This is yet another reason to apply crippling sanctions against Washington, a government that has emerged under Bush/Obama as a brownshirt state that deals in lies, torture, murder, war crimes, and deception.

    Many governments are complicit in America’s war crimes. With Obama’s budget deep in the red, Washington’s wars of naked aggression are dependent on financing by the Chinese, Japanese, Russians, Saudis, South Koreans, Indians, Canadians and Europeans. The second this foreign financing of American war crimes stops, America’s wars of aggression against Muslims stop.

    The US is not a forever “superpower” that can indefinitely ignore its own laws and international law.

    The US will eventually fall as a result of its hubris, arrogance, and imperial overreach. When the American Empire collapses, will its enablers also be held accountable in the war crimes court?

    By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

  21. fyi says:

    Dan Cooper says:

    July 19, 2014 at 7:54 pm

    US now is like Spain prior to the governance of the late Count Duke of Olivares.

    Americans sold their jobs to pay for a military structure that failed in delivering geopolitical dividends in the Persian Gulf and the Levant over the last 10 years.

    And now they wish to wage war in Ukraine and in the Persian Gulf as well ….

    US needs a statesman such as the late Olivares to preside over an age of decline.

    A man who would unwind and deleverage US commitments and I.O.U.s.

    But we are not there yet – and you are right – even the language has been corrupted in the United States politics.

  22. fyi says:

    Mr. Canning:

    And I repeat again, NATO is an enemy of Iran, attempting to destroy the social fabric of Iran by inducing hyper-inflation in Iran and later, turning Iranian women into whores – reprising what they did in Iraq throughout the 1990s and what they are doing among Syrian refugees.

    But now, NATO has a bigger fish to fry with Russia over Ukraine.

    NATO aims in Ukraine will be defeated, this was a massive miscalculation on part of NATO to try to grab Ukraine.

    mark my words: Russia will go to war over Ukraine just as Iran over Iraq.

    Is NATO ready to fight Russia?

    I think not.

    Is NATO willing to fight Iran?

    Yes; to the last American, French, and English soldier.

  23. Empty says:

    RE: “mark my words: Russia will go to war over Ukraine just as Iran over Iraq. Is NATO ready to fight Russia? I think not. Is NATO willing to fight Iran?
    Yes; to the last American, French, and English soldier.”

    NATO is quite willing but not “ready” to fight Russia just as it is quite willing but not “ready” to fight Iran. However, it is rather curious that in Russia’s case, it is phrased in terms of “readiness” and in Iran’s case, it is phrased in terms of “willingness”.

    Is it because you hope to avoid an obvious implication and important question it would raise: why is it that a much larger and more technologically advanced and a nuclear weapon state inspires similarly insufficient readiness on the part of its enemies to attack it as does a much smaller and non-nuclear weapon state?

    What is holding them back in Lebanon? In Syria? In Iraq? None of these states have nuclear weapons and, by all analyses and accounts, most people agree that these are the links in the chain of resistance. Shouldn’t the US and its dog NATO use one of those nuclear weapons they brag about to finish the job? What is holding Israel back in Gaza? Surely they have enough nuclear weapons that they could spare one or two for Lebanon and one for Palestine. What good is it if you cannot use it to prevent others from throwing low tech pitiful rockets at you sending your population underground day and night which causes disruptions in daily life and business.

  24. fyi says:

    Empty says:

    July 19, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    Should they do so, they risk the annihilation of their own cities.

  25. Empty says:

    fyi,

    RE: “Should they do so, they risk the annihilation of their own cities.”

    But shouldn’t possessing nuclear weapons afford them some measure of deterrence and protection against annihilation?

  26. fyi says:

    Empty says:

    July 19, 2014 at 11:17 pm

    It does if they act in ways understandable to others; not otherwise.

    As for Iran, she does not have a way to prevent Axis Powers from escalating against her.

    Note that in the current siege war, she has been basically absorbing blows without being able to do much to retaliate.

    The Axis Powers used their financial nuclear bomb against Iran and Iran could not do a damn thing.

  27. Smith says:

    Yes, that is about it. Unfortunately. By the way Iranians themselves are allergic to Russians. Alot of it, has to do with injustices of history and cultural orientation of Iranian public. And some of it has to do with Iran’s officialdom and establishment. Years ago when Iran could not buy planes for its commercial aviation, some ultra-corrupt officials in Iran rented and leased the out of commission and expired Tu-154 planes that were rusting in Siberian junkyards. People started to die in crash after crash. With the name of Tupolev becoming synonymous with communal Kamikaze in Iran.

    Now this was not the fault of Russia or its technology, it was the fault of corrupt Iranian officials. But anyways, this caused the people of Iran to love Boeing and America even more. And to this day, Iranian officials are staring with begging eyes towards US to provide them with Boeing planes, so that they can rise up in shouts of “Death to America”. There was another way of course. To buy brand new Tu-204 and Il-96 (or even seriously try to license their production in Iran) but again the love of Boeing is stronger in Iran than in US itself.

  28. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 19, 2014 at 7:28 pm

    The love of NPT remains very strong in Iran, mostly due to a hope of being loved in future by Americans. At least that is how it appears. It is one gift of Shah that seems to be cherished by IR. Personally I think Mr Khamenei has painted himself to a corner. After all, a leader can only be as great as his advisers. And look at the advisers he has had, the Rafsanjanis, Mosavis, Larijanis etc etc.

    Qadeer Khan smuggled centrifuge blue prints and components into Pakistan in late 1970’s. By 1982, Pakistan had built and cold tested its first device. In 1985 Pakistan gave the same blue prints to Iran, during Mosavis government. Iran still does not have its first device. Imagine if that goon Mosavi, instead of sitting on his koon, had actually doubled down and worked hard and by 1988 when Americans shot down Iran’s airliner sending a message to Imam that US will start massacring Iranians out of love for Saddam, in response, Iran would have tested its first device and threatened Iraq into submission.

    But no, these advisers went to Imam and said, we can not fight anymore. They had actually asked a dying man to give them thousands of tanks and hundreds of modern fighter jets and a million tonnes of bombs etc etc (this wish list exists and has been published). As if he had a wand and would magically make this wish list real. Imagine if these useless advisers would have provided him with the option of choosing between drinking the gallon of poison or declaring Iran a nuclear armed state. After all the job of the advisers is to create options for their leaders. But in Iran it is opposite. It is the leader that has to create options for useless, gutless, incompetent and mostly corrupt advisers. It is really a shame. To have a great leader but useless advisers and followers.

  29. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 19, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    Hmmm. The stick is growing thicker and firmer while the carrot is shrinking and rotting. I wonder how much more they can run towards the fool’s paradise of NPT lala-land. The mirage. The hallucination that they will be accepted and loved by Americans some day in future as Japan.

  30. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 19, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    Please see:

    Smith says:
    July 20, 2014 at 12:45 am

  31. nico says:

    Don Bacon,

    I appreciate PCR a lot.
    But one need to be critical toward everyone.

    “The US led the imposition of sanctions against South Africa because of South Africa’s apartheid practices. The sanctions forced the white government to hand over political power to the black population. Israel practices a worse form of apartheid than did the white South African government. Yet, Israel maintains that it is “anti-semitic” to criticize Israel for a practice that the world regards as abhorrent.”

    Surely the international sanctions played a role in the SA apartheid regime. But that was secundary issue.
    The main factor was demographic.
    With White SA being roughly 10% of the total population.
    Incidentally Ehud Olmert said few years ago that the main challenge to the jewish apartheid state survival is the Palestenian demography.
    Expecting, in current circumstances, so called sanctions from the west against the jewish apartheid state is pretty delusional.
    As I stated time and again here, the west and jewish commity history are ideologically for about 3 centuries.
    That is from the inception of the “unholy” alliance between the Bank and grand bourgeoisie with the secular system of power in the west (the alliance of the City with the English King or the alliance of the capitalist system with the individualist and atheist “enlightment” mojement in France during the 1789 revolution).
    Well, before such alliances the jews were considered apostat and sidelined in western societies.
    Held in check by the church and the power of western ethnic aristocracy.
    Afterward they became a leading economical and intellectual minority.

    Surely that is a religious war.
    And there is a religious and ideological alliance and convergence between western societies and the jewish communities that run deep from that very materialist moment.
    Such ideology is the current willfully adopted materialist ideology. And the very western line.
    Not some kind of manipulation or conspiracy frop the jews.
    The jewish community surely hold influence but is only one component among others in this unitary system.

    That is truly idiocy and sheer lie to think that the western specifoc ideology is not in bed with the jewhish community lunacies.
    And pointing at the jewish community without pointing at the very core of the western ideology culpability and unitary system is dishonest. Canning like.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa

  32. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Unfortunately for Gaza’s people and US interests, the US political class remains deeply resistant to these imperatives.”

    The things that are hosts say are correct but not of much significance when they don’t address the structural issues that make the US political class deeply resistant to these imperatives. In fact that’s the real subject of inquiry for any scholar.

    Stating the bleeding obvious (are you listening fyi) is not much of an achievement.

    The “structural issues” are the fact that the federal two-party system is totally and completely corrupted combined with the bullshit electoral college system of voting for the President.

    This is in fact a higher order problem than whether this lobby or that lobby control D.C. It is because of the structural corruption that this or that lobby can control D.C.

    In such a situation the fundamental question is: can that political process itself do something to remedy the structural problem?

    In my humble opinion it no longer can. Apparently our hosts believe it still can.

    If they do, I would suggest that they rethink this. The US political class will NEVER understand the imperatives they state nor abandon its quest for hegemony and support for the Zionist settler state.

    Even losing a half a dozens wars- direct and proxy- in the region and increasing the debt to 17 trillion since 9/11 didn’t do much to change this.

    That indicates a pretty fucked up society and country if you ask me.

  33. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “As for Iran, she does not have a way to prevent Axis Powers from escalating against her.”

    An intellectually honest person would right “as far as I can tell with the information available to me, she does not have a…”

    “Obviously” she does and that is “obviously” why the US hasn’t attacked. As SL has said thousand times, if they could attack militarily, they would have long time ago.

    But they can’t.

    I will not indulge in this matter more as I stated that there is no achievement in stating the bleeding obvious.

    And yes changing an economic and financial system built by westerners for western economic interests in Iran and run by local elites nurtured for this very purpose is going to take a little a time.

    Considering the very short time period (35 years) compared to oh let’s say the centuries that historical eras are measured in Iran- I think we’ve come a very long way towards independence.

    The difference is that some are in Iran are working on this and others “fled” their homeland because they “couldn’t be bothered” and are now pontificating from afar.

    Which brings us to the super-genius.

    Always repeating what I said years/months before.

    Well isn’t nice to see that you also now think that Rafsanjani and Mousavi are corrupt pro-western traitors? Been reading (aka “copying”) by old posts again?

    You see unlike your childish, sophmoric plagiarisms I added another dimension to this which that these guys were/are symbols of political current Iran that represents those who want to “be good” with the west and that they have historically been successful in elections in the “democracy” that Iran is thank God.

    Are you willing to be active in a political current that stands for all those things that your genius has figured out are necessary for Iran and compete in elections with these guys?

    Didn’t think so…

    Unlike the US, the political process in Iran is healthy and results in the will of the majority of the voters being represented in the government- when the greenies don’t try to make a coup d’etat like in ’88.

    Given the emotional immaturity and instability that you have displayed so far my guess is that your secret phantasy is to be a “benevolent dictator” raising the illiterate cargo cult out of darkness into light- well cause your a fuckin genius and we’re not, right?

    The real genius is somebody like Imam who with the “illiterate” peasants can establish a Islamic republic.

    You are too arrogant to be able to every do something like that which benefits of “normal’ people. Stick to arrogant elites like yourself.

    Yes it’s one thing to intellectually grasp matters and bemoan shitty advisers, but it’s a totally different thing to actually be in the thick of it azizam.

    Also, “In real world, the thing that keeps peace is a balance of power. The deterrence brings peace. Right now no such thing exists in that part of the world. Israel is nuclear armed and has even the Samson Option. Her supporters are also nuclear armed.

    The opposing forces are still living in stone age in technological terms. And even their supporters are not nuclear armed either. There is no deterrence and no balance of power. Therefore no expectation of peace can be had.”

    Only a khar would write this while rockets are hailing on Israeli cities and Iranian cities are calm and peaceful.

    You don’t understand the concept of “deterrence” aziziam- that is beyond what you have read in the books of old cold warriors from the 1960s. Go educate and update yourself on this topic and then you can come post what you read as your own on the this site, deal?

  34. nahid says:

    Dear fyi
    What do you think of article from Ambassador?

    http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/07/20/putin-its-your-payback-time/

  35. kooshy says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    July 20, 2014 at 7:06 am

    “In such a situation the fundamental question is: can that political process itself do something to remedy the structural problem?
    In my humble opinion it no longer can. Apparently our hosts believe it still can.”

    BiB Jaan, is just couple of years that our hosts have started to say the purpose of US (strategist) support for Israel is not just for the love the US has for the Jews, but rather is using Zionism (Extremist Jewish Takfiries) to maintain and expand US hegemony just like what they started in Afghanistan over three decades ago and now expanded to Syria and Iraq.

    One should know the Americans are raised in the environment of praising and teaching an individualistic capitalism, meaning nothing and nobody matters more than you becoming above all, only in that mentality
    An extremist puritan is comforted by flocking and slave to bring free gains; this gives that comfort of enslaving of god for god. They have no other reason other than their own US gain for utilizing Israel and other extremist method. I have always thought and wrote and argued here many times that the Israel lobby can and is having a free ride as long as the overall US hegemonic policies coincides with their religious Zionist believes, the second that changes they will be thrown under the bus ( if need be) by their own wealthy US supporting Jews, who naturally don’t mind to enslave not for their own gain, but for the good of god.

    “The primary reason is that most American policy elites still believe the United States needs to dominate the Middle East, and that Israeli military assertiveness is instrumentally useful to this end—a mindset the Israel lobby artfully reinforces.”

  36. Karl.. says:

    250 civilians killed in Ukraine’s Lugansk during in June/July

    http://rt.com/news/174128-lugansk-osce-death-toll/

    and in Gaza west let israel massacre 340 in total now!

  37. Dan Cooper says:

    Israel is wiping Palestine off the map by systematically slaughtering its inhabitants.

    There is no international condemnation of Israel.

    Where is justice in this world?

    America, Canada, Britain, France and Germany, etc preach about justice and human rights but they so openly violates its fundamental principles by supporting Israel’s murderous and criminal atrocities in Palestine.

    From a palestinian perspective;

    1) What do you do……..when you are occupied and imprisoned in your own land by Israeli Government

    2) What do you do……. when your electricity supply and other supplies are severely restricted by people outside of your territory?

    3) What do you do……..when every day you are humiliated and intimidated or be held up at a checkpoint?

    4) What do you do ……..when a Berlin type wall built to separate you from your family or from land that was once yours

    5) What do you do…….when you defend your land, they call you terrorist

    6) What do you do……when defending your land, “your father, mother, brother, sister or your children are blown to pieces in front of your eyes by Israel’s soldiers.

    7) What do you do…….when you have lost everything?

    You turn to suicide bombs and rockets and the only thing left in your life, your faith and the final act of martyrdom.

  38. kooshy says:

    “TRIPOLI (Reuters) – Heavy fighting erupted on Sunday around Tripoli International Airport, where rival militias have been battling for control, killing at least four people and forcing thousands from their homes, local residents and witnesses said.”

    Doesn’t Hillary Clinton want to go back, see and die there? If not she deserve too.

  39. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    July 20, 2014 at 1:03 am

    Yes, Mr. Khamenei has to drink from poison chalice and order the nuclearization of Iran.

  40. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    July 20, 2014 at 1:03 am

    Mr. Khamenei is a fluke, in as much as a brave and sane person like Mr. Dempsey has been in the United States.

    As for the unworthiness of his advisors; they were promoted based on loyalty as well as conformance of a brick-layer’s (muleteer) idea of Islamic piety.

  41. Karl.. says:

    Dan Cooper

    And then they wonder why there is antisemitism (which I of course dont condone) but is an obvious outcome of this brutality.

  42. Karl.. says:

    nico

    Check 9:14, what a disgraceful thing to do by the undercover police
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bgW8-0o6po

  43. fyi says:

    nahid says:

    July 20, 2014 at 8:51 am

    While I generally agree with the overall sense of this article, I do not think that Mr. Putin and indeed the Russian Government are prepared to breach the siege of Iran at this time.

    For them, a confrontation with US & EU is a very costly proposition and they would their best to avoid that by splitting US from EU.

    US & EU remain the most important sources of finance & technology on this planet and Russians will do their utmost to avoid being denied access to those resources needed for the development of their economy, state, and polity.

    If and when the current Russian strategy of Kung-Fu fails, they might revisit the Iran angle – in my opinion.

    But that is weeks, perhaps months into the future.

    In certain ways, Russia is like Iran:

    1- Dominated by the Mongols for 2 centuries
    2- A separate religious polity that never experienced the Western European intellectual and political and economic developments of the 9-th to 14-th centuries
    3- State assuming the role of modernizer through both the Imperial and Communist/Republican periods
    4- 2 Revolutions meant to usher in Liberty and Good Governance that were only partially successful
    5- Emotional people
    6- Natural resource-based economies

    But I also think that there is a significant difference and that is Russia has a deep and significant tradition of innovation in empirical and applied sciences that Iran lacks.

  44. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    kooshy-jan,

    I disagree that US will somehow get rid of Israel and Zionist lobby when it doesn’t fit its strategic goals. It already doesn’t and Israel lobby is still around.

    Whether to “pursue hegemony” or not to is not simply a matter of “rational” policy decision making by US elites. It’s a “pathology” that many Americans recognize as such.

    In a healthy political system the political process would allow a political movement to develop that advocates the reduction of imperialist policies, reduction of Israel and Saudi lobby power and reduction of corporate power- in addition to all other political movements that are in favor of imperialism, Zionism, corporatism and that already exist.

    These would then compete in a democratic process and over time with support of enough voters and skill of politicians, these “pathologies” can be overcome as a reflection of the will of the majority or plurality of the electorate. For example similar to happened with segregation in the 1960s (just an example).

    Well we don’t even have the first step in this political process happening in the US where such a political movement can even compete fairly- even though there is a significant portion of the US electorate which doesn’t want imperialism, wants to reduce Zionist power and corporate power in the US- both from the left and right spectrum.

    Even when someone on the right like the Paul’s mention it, they are ridiculed, same for people on the left. What we have is a corrupt federal one party system with one faction being sensitive about same gender anal sex and the other faction not caring about it- as a distinguishing characteristic between the two factions.

    Anyone- left or right- advocating anti-imperialism, fighting Zionist occupation of US, fighting corporate corruption and influence is marginalized and maligned.

    In such an environment, criticisms have to move to higher level beyond the simple policy level. Actually “the policy” is not the main problem.

  45. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 20, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Yes, I also do not see that he has any palatable choices. Let’s hope that he has good enough followers who will not ridicule him when he cancels his own unnecessary fatwa. The kind of followers that Ayatullah Shirazi had when he issued and cancelled the Tobacco fatwa in the higher interests of Iranian sovereignty.

    Otherwise Mr. Khamenei is going to become Shah Ismail who lost Iran’s shoreline with black sea (thereby cutting Iran from Mediterranean and today making Iran strategically dependent on Suez canal and Gibraltar strait. Shah Ismail too believed that using guns is against Islam, bravery and manhood. Your analogy in this regard can not be any more clearer and stronger. I wonder what Iran will lose this time: its shoreline with Persian Gulf and Sea of Oman thereby making Iran a land locked country or even the complete break up of Iran into 13 slave colonies. And I do not think Mr. Khamenei has even the luxurious option of taking refuge in wine and women as Shah Ismail did afterwards.

  46. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 20, 2014 at 11:29 am

    Yes, that is so sad. The advisers whose rise have been due to Peter Principle mixed up with religious bigotry of muleteers. Some long ago, I used to think that only if corruption could be managed then things can get better, for instance in my response to Mr Nasser I had this idea in mind: http://www.raceforiran.com/flynt-leverett-on-the-illusion-of-a-syrian-%E2%80%9Copposition%E2%80%9D%E2%80%94and-the-real-requirements-for-conflict-resolution-in-syria#comment-92368

    Now it has become clear to me that it is not only the corruption of likes of Rafsanjanis that is impeding Iran from becoming a global power but the muleteer mentality of a large segment of Iranian society.

  47. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “As for the unworthiness of his advisors; they were promoted based on loyalty as well as conformance of a brick-layer’s (muleteer) idea of Islamic piety.”

    Good to see that you are still as clueless about what goes on Iran as you were 30 years ago.

    The examples of “advisers” cited by bitch clearly don’t fall into the category of “loyal” or “brick-layer”- nor “piety” for that matter.

    But you would know that if you had a clue. But in reality you don’t.

    Speaking as a brick-layer who is loyal to his vali, that which has made Iran strong is having an honest person as our vali and having the brick-layers be part of the governance of the nations.

    Otherwise we would have had to rely on the whims, delusions and arrogance of “elites” like you to guide our affairs.

    Now that would guarantee a rapid decline and fall of this great nation.

    Notice “nuclear weapons” is not a major element of why Iran is powerful now and will be more powerful in the future. I know, you have a different opinion.

    Maybe you also harbor secret “benevolent dictator” phantasies…

    Thank God you left and “Mr. Khamenei” is our leader.

  48. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Now it has become clear to me that it is not only the corruption of likes of Rafsanjanis that is impeding Iran from becoming a global power but the muleteer mentality of a large segment of Iranian society.”

    Good to see you’re on board regarding Rafsanjani, but remember you are just copying me and the other muleteer bricklayers in this regard. Your own genius didn’t realize this. Never forget that genius.

    Leave the muleteers, brick layers and peasants to “Mr. Khamenei” he knows how to deal with them as real human beings. You and fyi stick to “elite” mutual masturbation.

  49. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    July 20, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    There were many people who opposed the Islamic Government as envisioned by the successful revolutionaries.

    The opposition – excepting the Tudeh Party and the Freedom Movement – never accepted that it could only be “official Opposition” and went about fighting the new government violently.

    Regrettably, the government also over-reacted in my opinion, essentially refusing to tolerate – within the constitutional framework – any opposition – not even the Freedom Movement.

    The revolutionaries compounded that problem by dividing the country into the “in-people” (Khodi) and “Out-people” (gheyr khodi) – the old way of doing things in the Middle East and perhaps elsewhere – like the Chinese guang-shi.

    I think Mr. Ahmadinejad was the first Iranian leader after the Revolution that broke with that custom.

  50. Smith says:

    Today it is six months complete for the interim nuclear deal. They have now extended the deal another four months. When the deal was written I called it what it was while the shameless, lying, rapist muleteers were congratulating each other: http://goingtotehran.com/nuclear-rights-and-the-p51-talks-with-iran#comment-26009

    By the way, it is no more 55 dollars . Now the extension is for 2.8 billion dollars. It is now 36 dollars per person. Roughly 9 dollars per month per person as in the old deal. It is not bad. From American perspective of course. Keeping a whole nation in NPT lala-land with just about 30 cents per day per manimal. That is cheap. Specially considering the fact that is their own money from which they are being paid. While 120 billion dollars and even more of their money is being siphoned into Western banks.

    All thanks to the colonial treaty of NPT.

  51. fyi says:

    All:

    Dr. Einhorn’s position – close to thet of Axis Powers as well as Russia and China:

    http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/iran-at-saban/posts/2014/07/19-iran-nuclear-talks-extended-hard-choices-enrichment

    I think the aim is to reprise the destruction of Libya – “gaining the trust of the International Community” – as though Iran is some sort of protectorate of the Whiteman

  52. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Obama obviously sees the merits of the advice he receives from General Dempsey.

  53. James Canning says:

    Dan Cooper,

    The terrible carnage in Gaza does not reflect a “wiping of Palestine off the map”. Netanyahu clearly would like to get rid of the Palestinians, however.

  54. Pouya says:

    There are demonstrations across the world for Gazans, from Europe to ME, except one location: The West Bank.

    Is it time to ask do Palestinians deserve a homeland if they don’t care about each other or their own homeland?

  55. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    You think the US was “seeking hegemony” in Afghanistan back in the 1980s? Curious notion.

  56. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Half a century ago, I saw that “white” rule in South Africa was doomed due to adverse demographics.

    You have a pronounced tendency to seek to excuse the Israel lobby in its manipulation of public opinion in America and other countries. Why is that?

    People who advance the cause of “Israel” tend to see their careers etc benefit from so doing. This is at the core of the matter.

  57. Pouya says:

    James Canning,

    The US is always looking for hegemony anywhere you look in the world. That’s what all nations do. I don’t think we should think of hegemony as a negative thing.

    I think what I would debate is what is our policy after hegemony is established. When America empowers others and makes them our allies, America wins. That is what happened to Western Europe and Japan. When America has fails to provide a vision and gets involved in local fights and calls everyone in sight as terrorist, we get kicked out and the nation (like Afganistan) is destroyed.

    Failure of America to duplicate the European miracle is what has weakened US image around the world.

  58. Smith says:

    Pouya says:
    July 20, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    A Palestinian had told me that the people in West bank specially the PLO types see the Gazans and specially Hamas types as Iranian stooges. Despite them being both Sunnis, the West Bank people call Hamas, Shia (the intention here is derogatory). At any rate, without balance of power more children will have to die. Another benefit of being in NPT.

  59. Smith says:

    Pouya says:
    July 20, 2014 at 1:49 pm

    The European “miracle” and Japan “miracle” had nothing to do with US. Both Germany and Japan had strong scientific and engineering traditions before losing to Americans. You can not seriously expect US to make a Japan out of Afghanistan, a nation of primitive cargo cults. When Japan lost the war, their king issued a statement basically ordering his subjects: “Gentlemen, we have lost the war. Drop your weapons and pick up the TOOLS.”

    Germany by the second decade of the end of world war II had become one of the most important economic, scientific and technological power on planet earth with Iran begging Germany to sell her some nuclear power plants. This had nothing to do with US. It was due to the German culture of love for science. Unlike Afghanistan, Iran or Egypt where the science is not respected.

  60. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 20, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    A question that again and again arises is why Germans, French, Japanese and even Russian public moved beyond their muleteer’s ideology while Iranians are so much in love with it?

    Why Iranians are not ready to let their cargo cult mentality go? Why they have to resist accepting printing press, gun powder and nuclear weapons?

  61. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 20, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    That writing was so humiliating. But then the muleteers are ok with that as long as it does not interfere with their duties of selling smuggled medicine in naserkhosro and beating teenagers wearing tight socks.

  62. Karl.. says:

    Pouya

    In this case palestinians and arab world is hopeless and pathetic, no wonder there is no change when not even they will protest.

  63. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    Yes and the pro-israel/pro-us dictator in egypt have the same view about gazans (like the rest of the pathetic arab society).

  64. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 20, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    They have the same view but for different reasons. In Egypt a corrupt army is trying to hold on to power and the massive corruption benefits that come with it. Naturally a representative system under MB is unacceptable to them. Now, do not get me wrong. Hamas and MB are disloyal to the bone. Iran helped them every chance it had but MB and Hamas backstabbed Iran every chance they got. This is the difference. The hatred they have for Shias is extremely strong. But regardless of this fact, MB as I have said it before is the best medicine for places such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE etc etc. Strategically empowerment of MB is to the detriment of Iran’s traditional enemies. Saudi kings wet themselves at night in fear of MB getting roots in Saudi society. This is where Iran should help MB. The anvil is ready for strike. Specially now that MB blames Saudis for the loss of Egypt.

  65. nico says:

    James Canning says:

    July 20, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    “You have a pronounced tendency to seek to excuse the Israel lobby in its manipulation of public opinion in America and other countries. Why is that?”

    As I explained in the western “ancien regime” type of governance the society the jews were sidelined.
    What you have difficulty to grasp is that in the so called “modern” regime, the jewish communties are a legitimate constituency of western nations.
    They are a powerfull minority and recognized and accepeted as such by other constituencies.
    That is the wester model. Period.

    What you are expecting is for jews to be sidelined again. (As they will NEVER relinquish Palestine as an alternate political way.)

    That will NEVER happen short of regime change in western nations. Period.

    Clear enough for your thick head ?

  66. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    Fully agree that MB is the best and as we have seen they are refused power even when they become elected.

    This photo says alot
    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2014/07/from-solidarity-demonstration-in-denmark.html
    Compare that old woman in Denmark to the corrupt arab states they wont even protest at all.

  67. James Canning says:

    John Bew reflects on British foreign policy, in the wake of William Hague’s resignation as Foreign Secretary: “Philip Hammond’s appointment as Foreign Secretary is a triumph of capable functionaries and Little Englanders”.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/07/castlereagh-canning-era-philip-hammond

  68. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 20, 2014 at 2:43 pm

    Well, in this regard you gotta give credit to western society. No doubt.

  69. Smith says:

    The joy of finding things for oneself: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25916-bubble-wrap-used-for-cheap-blood-and-bacteria-tests.html#.U8wPEONUCKU

    There are labs in Iran too. There are bubble wraps in Iran too. The only thing lacking is the imaginative and creative brain such as these researchers in Harvard university.

  70. Karl.. says:

    Smith

    I consider arab actions more pathetic than west regarding this no doubt about it.
    That west would accept something that looks like genocide is not surprising but I didnt expect that silence from the arabs.

  71. Smith says:

    Who is importing most wheat in the world? Of course Muslims. Countries like Iran and Egypt.

    Who is doing most research on wheat to feed the planet? See for yourself: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140717141849.htm

  72. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    What is this nonsense about “sidelining” Jews in the US? Half of Jews who get married in the US marry non-Jews.

  73. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I assume you are well aware that most of the neocons who conspired to set up the idiotic US invasion of Iraq, were Jews. Simple fact. But one that tends to be concealed.

  74. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 20, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    Arabs are a curious lot. You should really read about their Jahiliyya. Except for a brief period when the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), was sent to straighten them out, they have always been in this sorry state. Both before and after Islam. The only thing that happened to them was Islam. Not even the massive oil wealth changed their primitive ways.

  75. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Muslim Brotherhood is trying to overthrow the Syrian government. I assume you know this.

  76. Smith says:

    Who is trying to identify receptors for new medicines? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140717124523.htm

    You can bet, it is not Iran. Not Afghanistan. Not Egypt.

  77. Smith says:

    Pouya,

    Japan just after WWII, with everything destroyed. Adult male population plummeted. They even got nuked. Literally. This was their condition: http://amse.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/22-ThreeBrothersNagasaki-NegH21.jpg

    But they picked up the tools. They did not beg. They did not import.

    Same was Germany.

    The only advantage they had was the strong tradition of science and technology in their culture. Unlike Iran.

  78. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 20, 2014 at 2:58 pm

    “What is this nonsense about “sidelining” Jews in the US? Half of Jews who get married in the US marry non-Jews.”

    Thick skull indeed.
    Read my post again the answers are already there.

    James Canning says:
    July 20, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    “I assume you are well aware that most of the neocons who conspired to set up the idiotic US invasion of Iraq, were Jews. Simple fact. But one that tends to be concealed.”

    Well yes the Neocons are actually involved. I never said the contary.
    What your thick skull is unable to absorb is that it is NOT concealed.
    Everybody knows it.
    And everybody accept it.
    Just as I said that is the western regime and model. Period.

    The issue is that you are unable to accept the very fact that the Western regime as a whole is corrupt.

    Thick head.
    So what ?

  79. Smith says:

    Pouya,

    Oh, by the way that picture is of Nagasaki after getting nuked and the three brothers that are left alone by death and destruction around them. From that to this, Nagasaki today: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Nagasaki_City_view_from_Hamahira01s3.jpg

  80. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    The perversion of the American political system, to enable insane Israeli colonization programme to continue unimpeded etc etc etc owes a very great deal to the great wealth and power of Jews in America. Agreed?

  81. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 20, 2014 at 6:23 pm

    “The perversion of the American political system, to enable insane Israeli colonization programme to continue unimpeded etc etc etc owes a very great deal to the great wealth and power of Jews in America. Agreed?”

    Sophistry of yours in trying to dissociate, every and each day, other US or Western constituencies from their full participation, reponsibility and complicity.
    What sophistry would you maybe ask…

    Well as you maybe know (or not), the US are not a democracy and never were.
    The US are a plutocracy.
    Since when the US president or the congress follow the citizen will or respected their campaign commitments ?
    Ahaha
    That never happens or if it happens it only is for cosmetic reasons.
    House of representatives… Sorry for the joke…

    Well, well, and it happens that the jewish community hold money and show solidarity toward their coreligionaries.
    After the fall of the “ancien regime” the western power went to those holding wealth in a political system detached from official faith imposed by the state (whatever the shallow God Bless America).
    Thus the Jewish influence is legitimate when taken in such US model.
    That is not concealed that is simple fact.

    That being said, who are you to judge the jewish community legitimacy if you do not challenge the western model of domestic dominance ?

    Thus whether you challenge the current system or your point is logically void (you know … like an idiocy).
    But I do not expect anything logical coming from you.

    One can easily understand that the current oligarchic and materialist system is also supported by other powerfull interests.
    And those other interests need the system keep going.
    Thus they accomodate the jewish lobby and are fully complicit.
    So what ?

    Now that the ground has been laid.
    What is your suggestion in such circumstances to change the situation ?
    Nothing.
    You have no suggestion.
    All you do is blattering.

    Maybe are you suggesting that the jewish community need to be “purged” ?
    Or maybe are you suggesting a revolution to overthrow the system ?

    I suggest that the second option is needed.
    While you evidently indirectly suggest the first option.

    That is why I clearly and opnely say that you are an antisemitic disgusting thug in addition to your well known white Britton supremacist ideology associated to your hubristic false progressive insolence.

    Incidentally the jewish community alliance through the Bank (you know Rotschild maybe ?) with the crown of England helped carve the Anglo saxon dominance and empire.
    Afterward nesting in the FED and Wall Street.
    That is an old Anglo Saxon and Jeswish alliance. Not something new !

    And by now you have the NERVE to claim that you poor english citizen are fighting for good, god and moral ?
    Who are you trying mocking at ?

  82. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    July 20, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    You do not understand Japanese, compared to them, Chinese are like individualists.

    It is that collective will – Japanismo -that is tied to superb leadership that has gotten them where they are – over 100 years.

    [Illiteracy in Japan in 1860s was lower than Iran in 1960.

    Serfs were freed in Iran in 1960 – in Russia in 1860s.]

  83. nico says:

    And you have also the other queer who left his muslim country for the comfortable life in the Anglo saxon empire assiociated with the Jewish community.
    And he has the NERVE to pontificate about the so called religious war and Palestine issue.
    And by the way insulting the bricklayers in the same sentence.
    Disgusting.

  84. Pouya says:

    Smith

    I agree with the general premise of your statements. But let us also recall that the US wrong the constitution and restrictions of the German and Japanese society after the War. Both Germany and Japan benefited from the framework the US created. Both benefited from the investment the US made in them, such as the Marshal Plan. Both benefited from the US military protection. Much of the US policy was driven against the Soviet Union rather than whether they had a choice with those respective societies but to allow them to grow.
    In Afganistan and even Iran, the US has chosen a policy of arming people in the former and sponsoring dictatorship and war for the latter. Afganistan has nothing because of both US and Soviet policies in that nation over the past 40 years. We also witness that only 35 years after the revolution in Iran, and despite being a religious regime, Iran’s scientific growth has been steady and even breath taking. Iran’s indiginous nuclear program is simply one such example.
    The notion that some nations are cuturally more advanced to be pro-science than others is biased and western view of humanity promoted to advance hegemony.

  85. Sineva says:

    Smith says:
    July 20, 2014 at 2:01 pm
    And what do those in the west bank like abbas and the pitiful plo remnant see themselves as I wonder,probably like most collaborators they see themselves as patriots

  86. fyi says:

    Pouya says:

    July 20, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    To negate that you have to be able to match or suppress the Westerners at their own game.

  87. fyi says:

    All:

    An opinion by Mr. Zachary Keck:

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/can-iran-be-deterred-going-nuclear-10916

    Of the recommended steps only number 1 & 2 have not yet been tried – the others are in the works

    1) provide Israel with nuclear submarines and submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs);

    2) forward deploy tactical nuclear weapons in the Middle East;

    3) form an anti-Iran NATO-like alliance with Arab nations;

    4) seek to undermine Shia control of Iraq and Syria,

    5) support the Taliban in its effort to regain control over Afghanistan;

    6) directly intervene militarily against Hezbollah in Lebanon, and/or roll up its operations abroad;

    7) more aggressively root out Iranian intelligence networks throughout the Middle East, Africa, Latin America and Europe;

    8) dramatically ramp up support to anti-Iran militant groups in Pakistan and elsewhere; and

    9) drastically increase America’s military presence in the Middle East.

  88. Pouya says:

    FYI

    interesting article. I agree we are on our way to accomplish all those points in the article. The nuclear deal is a false flag.

  89. Karl.. says:

    Smith 3:01

    Yes i agree just today I read some egyptian journalist hailed Israel bombing of Gaza, something is rotten there.
    Every now and then this idea that Iran and arab could create a unity against Israel/US comes up, but no, how naive of me, that idea will never materialize, Iran is on another level than these corrupted arab states.

  90. A concerned world citizen says:

    I’m a very simple minded person so I’d like to apologize in advance if the question I’m posing appear ignorant.

    Could someone please explain to me why Iran still remains in the NPT – given that it’s this same NPT that’s brought nothing but misery to the Iranian people?

    Non-NPT states like India, Pakistan and Israel are rewarded while Iran is demonized and punished for doing what every NPT member state does. Where is the logic and benefit in this?

    Does Iran think by being part of this colonial organization, they’ll be accepted as part of the “civilized” world? The IAEA has been doing all in their power to sabotage the Iranians nuclear industry, from providing the names of top scientists to enemy states to be later assassinated to producing false and inconclusive reports which has led to many sanctions on Iran. There must be something else forcing Iran to remain in the NPT because given the facts, with my simple mind, I simply don’t see any justification for remaining in it. Perhaps some of our members here can shed some light on it???

    And also, what is the rational in the banning of nuclear weapons by the supreme leader? With the excuse he’s given that it’s Haram and that causes massive civilian casualties, can he also ban Shahab, Sejil and other Iranian missiles because they also cause massive civilians casualties. Even a knife, in the wrong hands can cause mass civilian casualties so as per his argument against nukes, knives should be banned too, right?

    In what way is Iran going to significantly harm the US if the US nukes Tehran? Do Iranian strategists really believe their Sejils and Shahabs can do any damage to US homeland?

    There’s a reason the US doesn’t go beyond their usual hurbristic rhetoric when it comes to dealing with Russia or China.. They know their homeland will be incinerated if they ever dare go beyond bs statement vis-a-vis Russia.

    The whole world is watching while Palestinians in Gaza are being massacred into oblivion. The same world watched while Syrians were subjected to the dirtiest war in human history.

    Does Iran really think the world will lose sleep when Tehran is nuked? I believe these are real questions that should make Iranian planner/strategists think hard.

    Thanks in advance :)

  91. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Unlike Afghanistan, Iran or Egypt where the science is not respected.”

    Again this sentence is more evidence of your mental illness and less of the reality on the ground particularly as it relates to Iran.

    Anything we have decided to build ourselves we were able to do it within a few years or months.

    If you have the balls to stand up to the western lobby in Iranian politics- which you don’t- then your childish rantings could be the beginning of something promising.

    Otherwise it’s just mental jerking off.

  92. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Pouya,

    “The notion that some nations are cuturally more advanced to be pro-science than others is biased and western view of humanity promoted to advance hegemony.”

    Exactly.

    What bitch doesn’t realize when ranting while in his psychotic state (possibly undiagnosed bi-polar) is that he is mirroring the very same racist supremacist bullshit that “the white man” (his words not mine) has been saying for centuries to us inferior races who no good with numbers n’ stuff.

    Anyway, the western medicine men have come with some excellent anti-psychotics which might help bitch achieve mental health and well-being.

    Identify this receptor, bitch!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic

  93. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Strategically empowerment of MB is to the detriment of Iran’s traditional enemies. Saudi kings wet themselves at night in fear of MB getting roots in Saudi society. This is where Iran should help MB. The anvil is ready for strike. Specially now that MB blames Saudis for the loss of Egypt.”

    Stealing my posts again, bitch…

    Let’s see, maybe more than two years ago that I wrote about this extensively posted links of MB members being arrested in the PG countries.

    Your just a phoney baloney ogdiye that can only copy paste and doesn’t have a single original idea. Pathetic bitch.

  94. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    bitch,

    Fyi, you wouldn’t last a week working in Germany or Japan. Maybe not even three days.

    You know as the Germans (once) said: Arbeit macht frei!

    I’m serious about the undiagnosed bi-polar. Have it checked out, a lot of geniuses are bi-polar.

  95. Dan Cooper says:

    It is an offense to intellect that the West can see thousands upon thousands of evidence of Zionist atrocities and continue supporting this fascist state with its sick pretence to ‘democracy’.

    During the past 66 years, the criminal Israeli leaders have repeatedly, arbitrarily and arrogantly violated international laws, Human rights and Geneva Convention and have deliberately and systematically terrorised, murdered and expelled Palestinian from their land.

    Occupation and ethnic cleansing is a crime, and the criminals who commit these atrocities must be brought to justice.

    Israeli leaders are without doubt the biggest existing terrorists and the greatest threat to world peace.

    66 years ago, Palestinians were happy because there was no Israel.

    Suddenly, Israel brought people from all over the world to Palestine and terrorised the indigenous Palestinian people, stole their land, forced them out of their homes and established this racist and apartheid state of Israel that we see today.

    The entire world is aware that occupation is a crime, the Israelis are the aggressors and perpetrators of this crime and the Palestinians are the victim.

    So many decent Jewish people in Israel are totally against their governments murderous atrocities in Palestine.

    More than 80 Israeli students announced their refusal to serve in the Israeli military because of what they call their nation’s track-record of oppression in the occupied territories.

    The conscientious objectors issued a letter declaring their determination not to join up during a news conference in Tel Aviv in protest against the government’s policies towards Gaza and the West Bank.

    They publicly declared that:

    “We cannot ignore the truth –

    The occupation is a violent, racist, inhumane, illegal, undemocratic, and immoral.

    “We, who were educated on the values of liberty, justice, honesty and peace, cannot accept it.”

    It was signed by 84 high school students.

    The biggest problem facing the world and the Middle East peace process are the powerful Israel lobby organisations in USA.

    The US media is a complete mouthpiece for the Israel Lobby. Never a critical word is heard against Israel.

    James Petras is a Bartle Professor (Emeritus) of Sociology at Binghamton University, New York, He wrote:

    “The great majority of the world’s people are sickened and incensed by Israel’s mass murder of the citizens of Gaza.

    Israel’s embargo, the daily ‘targeted’ assassinations of Palestinians, the ‘targeted’ missile attacks against civilians, the land, sea and air blockades and the blatant ‘targeted’ destruction of the infrastructure of Gaza.

    No government, indeed a democratically elected Hamas government, can stand by while its people are starved and murdered into submission.

    According to the respected Congressmen Bermans, only the lives of Jews matter, not the growing thousands of murdered, dismembered and mutilated citizens of Gaza – they do not count as people!

    Until we neutralize the pervasive power of the Zionist Power Configuration in all of its manifestations – In American public and civic life – and its deep penetration of American legislative and executive offices, We will fall short of preventing Israel from receiving the arms, funding and political backing to sustain its wars of ethnic extermination, Israel will continue its barbaric ethnic cleansing.

    Israel objective is to obliterate Palestinian civilization and to wipe Palestine off the map.”

    Avi Shlaim is a professor of international relations at the University of Oxford wrote;

    How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

    “A wide gap separates the reality of Israel’s actions from the rhetoric of its spokesmen.

    It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It did so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November 2008 that killed six Hamas men.

    Israel’s objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza by turning the people against their rulers.

    And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a 6-year-old blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza, now 1.7 million, to the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe. ”

    Israel has imprisoned 1.7 million Palestinians in Gaza strip.

    They have caged them in like animals and control their food, water, electricity and more importantly their freedom.

    when Hamas tries to defend its people and resist this illegal occupation, Israel call them terrorist.

    Hamas is a democratically elected government.

    Israel wants us to believe Hamas is a terrorist organization, but the truth is that Hamas is a democratically elected government.

    In January 2006, President Carter together with UN and British observers monitored Hamas’s election and categorically confirmed that the election was free and fair.

    I have lost counts of how many times Israel has deliberately massacred the innocent Palestinian civilians during the past 66 years.

    This makes Israel is a terrorist state and the biggest threat to world peace.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the Israel’s leaders are guilty of crimes against humanity and must be brought to the international court of justice and tried as war criminals.

    The most destructive power in the world is the Israel lobby in America, they control the media and they are the reason why Israel kills with impunity.

    Israel disregard for justice & human rights will have far-reaching consequences for mankind

    We already know that Israel genocide in Palestine has created fundamentalism around the world, which will indirectly, affects all of us one way or another.

    The whole world is suffering because of Israel desire to exist by force and occupation.

    Why do we all have to suffer because Israel wants to exist by force and occupation?

    Why do we have to tolerate it?

    Why do American public tolerate their hard earned Tax money to be used by israeli leaders to maim and slaughter innocent Palestinian children?

    When is it going to sink in, that Israel has never wanted peace, it wants the West Bank and Jerusalem without Arabs, and of course, it requires continued hostility to justify the charity and sympathy it receives!

    Israel is a serial killer and will continue to kill until and unless the international community collectively make the leaders of Israel accountable for their crimes.

    I cannot understand how the world can stand by and make excuses for an Israeli government hell bent on instigating aggression. It’s unfathomable that the people, who were victims of unspeakable crimes in World War 2, are now the perpetrators of equally heinous acts.

    Israel encourages their supporters to hijack public opinion in forums.

    The Zionist terrorists and its supporters believe in Brainwashing the international public opinion by playing “the self-defence” card, “rockets”, “Human shield”, “cover ups” and blaming the victim.

    In the age of satellites and television, this does not work anymore and the international community have called their bluffs.

    We are defending the justice and fairness for the innocent and defenceless Palestinian women and children but they are defending Israel’s military and illegal occupation and 66 years of atrocities.

    Back in January 2009,In the carnage in Gaza, we all witnessed with horror how Israel brutally massacred more than 700 innocent and defenceless Palestinian women and children.

    The Zionist leaders of Israel did not even let the international press inside Gaza because they knew that their atrocities & genocide would be revealed and their propaganda machine would collapse.

    In a sick attempt to brainwash the public opinion, the supporters of this apartheid state are still trying to portray that the aggressor (Israel) is the victim, how low and sick can you get.

    It is time the international community get together and put severe pressure on this apartheid and racist state, as they did to South Africa.

    Those of us who condemn Israel’s atrocities believe in Love, justice, fairness and the rule of law in this world and we cannot tolerate to see the criminal and terrorist leaders of Israel to get away with murder.

  96. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    List of people with bipolar disorder

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_disorder

  97. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Dan,

    At some point we got off our asses and overthrew the Shah and arrogant a-holes like fyi.

    I doubt you and other Americans are going to get off your asses and do anything significant anytime soon.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  98. James Canning says:

    Concerned,

    Israel may kill a thousand Palestinians in Gaza in this latest bit of frenzy, but the Palestinians will still be there.

  99. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I said the US behaves as it does in the Middle East, including foolishly encouraging the insane illegal colonization programme by Israel in the West Bank, because the Israel lobby has far too much influence, and this is due to the great wealth and power of the Jewish community in America. Your response is that I am trying to help the US avoid blame for its actions! WRONG. I am explaining, in part, what causes those actions. Other factors are present too.

  100. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I think the high rate of intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews in the US is a very good thing. Your opinion?

  101. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think Zachary Keck’s suggestions are rather foolish. And I doubt Khamenei thinks Iran would be allowed to build nukes.

  102. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    July 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    4 out of 7 of those suggestions have been implemented.

    Delivery of nuclear-launched missile technology to Israel is not yet attempted overtly – but there is sufficient madness in The Halls of the Mad King to warrant planning for that possibility.

    Iranians did not expect the financial nuclear bomb either, it happened.

    Given the history of the Iranian plateau, it is best, in my opinion, to prepare for the worst.

    We do not need men like the late Shah Ismail or the late Shah Sultan Hussein; we need men like the late Aqa Muhammad Khan Qajar.

  103. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think the severe financial sanctions against Iran were expected by Iranian leaders.

  104. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You appear to argue that the US is trying to put the Sunnis back in power in Iraq. This o course is not true.

  105. Smith says:

    Pouya says:
    July 20, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    I think your idea of begging for a “marshal plan” and falling to America’s feet to get “investment” is more in line with hegemonic wishes of America than my pointing out the weaknesses of Afghan, Iranian and Egyptian anti-science and technology culture. My point is clear: Do not beg. Start manufacturing your own. Innovate and invent your own. But you are in effect saying, third countries should beg and beg and beg till America throws some bones to them and only then America will become good in your eyes.

    That is too shameful for me too think like that.

    And if you can not see the difference between Afghan culture and Japanese culture and if you think that Afghan culture is more science and technology loving than German culture, then I can not help you any further. I assume you also believe that Siemens is a company based in Kabul and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is based in Kandahar and that this is an Afghan innovation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_ZoxHz45Po

    Just curious but what you guys smoke? Must be really good stuff.

  106. Ataune says:

    fyi says:

    July 21, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    US influence in the region is in decline and their current strategy gives no hope for them to reverse this trend. Iran’s influence and power on the other hand has grown considerably, if not in a continuous upward trend, but at least compared to 20 years ago.

    US might have thought that doubling-down to escalation, eventually with the help of a military skirmish, would have curbed Iran’s “ambitions”, but the bitter fruits of aggressive tactics, the reality of the international arena and the political strength of her opponent have shown that this game cannot be a zero-sum as initially planned. America since at least 7 years ago needs to back-down in her confrontation with the regional power. She has to take care of more important strategic businesses among other issues, and this for a foreseeable future.

    Iran needs a pause as well. Reflections on ways, maybe different, to advance her interests and preserve her gains and countering the sanction weapon are main priorities now.

    So stabilizing and normalizing the current reality in the region is, objectively speaking, priorities that each side should contemplate. One will consolidate his gains, the other prevent further losses. The Iranian leadership has wisely set-up the new course of action and the leader is politically in command. The US administration is timidly engaged in this path. But the more she hesitate the further the losses accumulate.

    It is quite possible that no politician can be found in the US to implement this objective and reasonable foreign policy. But a man armed with wisdom and solely acting in an intellectual way should in my opinion struggle to promote this path and prohibit polarization and conflict when unnecessary.

  107. nico says:

    Canning,

    Maybe your thick skull need reminders that the Anglo empire is dominated by the finace and the Jewish community… That is old story.
    Now you are blattering about the neocons…
    The Anglo Empire growth has been symbiotic with the jewish financiers and associated lobbies.
    The Anglo Empire would not be what it is today without them.
    Other Anglo constituencies can do nada, zilch, nothing to free themselves from the jewish influence.
    As I said the Anglo signed a pact with the jews centuries ago to get where they are today.
    Call it a alliance of shared interest inevitably leading to religious understanding.
    Either call it the capitalist system or the enlightment thing.

    The Anglo will drink the poisoned chalice in full no matter what.
    Only the economic crisis and the corrupt financial system collapse as seen today with its excesses, lawlessness and self destructive momentum will put a limit and modefate this folly.

    Official history of the Jewish financiers…
    And guess who was behind the Balfour declaration ? Ahaha you get it the Rotschilds.
    That is centuries long historical phase of continued alliance and political maturation to colonize Palestine.

    Now thick head is trying to elaborate about the neocons !
    Who is the fool and the idiot ?
    Evidently you are the one.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family

    “The Rothschilds already possessed a significant fortune before the start of theNapoleonic Wars (1803–1815), and the family had gained preeminence in the bulliontrade by this time.[17] From London in 1813 to 1815, Nathan Mayer Rothschild was instrumental in almost single-handedly financing the British war effort, organizing the shipment of bullion to the Duke of Wellington’s armies across Europe, as well as arranging the payment of British financial subsidies to their continental allies. In 1815 alone, the Rothschilds provided £9.8 million (in 1815 currency, about £566 million or US$869 million today, when using the retail price index, and £6.58 billion or US$10.1 billion when using average earnings) in subsidy loans to Britain’s continental allies.[18]”

    The brothers helped coordinate Rothschild activities across the continent, and the family developed a network of agents, shippers, and couriers to transport gold across war-torn Europe. The family network was also to provide Nathan Rothschild time and again with political and financial information ahead of his peers, giving him an advantage in the markets and rendering the house of Rothschild still more invaluable to the British government.

    In one instance, the family network enabled Nathan to receive in London the news of Wellington’s victory at the Battle of Waterloo a full day ahead of the government’s official messengers.[17] Rothschild’s first concern on this occasion was to the potential financial advantage on the market which the knowledge would have given him; he and his courier did not immediately take the news to the government.[17] It was then repeated in later popular accounts, such as that of Morton.[19][20] The basis for the Rothschild’s most famously profitable move was made after the news of British victory had been made public. Nathan Rothschild calculated that the future reduction in government borrowing brought about by the peace would create a bounce in British government bonds after a two-year stabilisation, which would finalise the post-war restructuring of the domestic economy.[18][19][20] In what has been described as one of the most audacious moves in financial history, Nathan immediately bought up the government bond market, for what at the time seemed an excessively high price, before waiting two years, then selling the bonds on the crest of a short bounce in the market in 1817 for a 40% profit. Given the sheer power of leverage the Rothschild family had at their disposal, this profit was an enormous sum.[18]

  108. nico says:

    And you have the fat lady arrived in the US 30 years ago or so and now pontificating about some religious war…
    Do you truly think that you are relevant and legitimate to criticize or discuss such centuries long alliance build on big money, blood, wars and political shrewedness ?
    Learn about what BiB told you and go in Iran build your country.
    Otherwise you better keep quit and live your comfortable life.

  109. Karl.. says:

    Remember this article next time you hear about the “terrorists” caught by the US.
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s-investigators-can-create-terror-suspects-human-rights-watch-report-suggests-1.1924305

  110. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    July 21, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    I will contemplate your advice.

  111. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 21, 2014 at 6:27 am

    Well that is how it is. And it is not all about ideological stuff which of course play their role, but it is also about hunger in countries such as Egypt. Most human beings can not tolerate more than a few days of hunger. By a month of complete starvation, organs start to shut down. It is really horrible.

    Egypt is the world’s largest importer of wheat in the world:
    http://www.fao.org/giews/countrybrief/country.jsp?code=EGY

    Iran is one of the largest importers of wheat in the world as well.

    There is a saying in Farsi that: Gada be gada rahmat be khoda. Signifying the desperate situation when a beggar begs another beggar and that in this kind of desperate situation only a divine help can save the beggar.

    Egypt lives on tourism (read prostitution), foreign aid and a little bit more of foreign aid. Even if Egypt wanted to switch camps and become Iranian ally, would Iran be able just to feed them? Forget about everything else. Just feed them. US can. Israel has powerful friends that can feed them. Saudi Arabia the lapdog of US can underwrite the bills for wheat imports. What can Iran do?

    We have to be fair in our criticism.

  112. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 21, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    Any pause is advantageous to US and detrimental to Iran.

    Iran must keep her high decision cycle rate. Iran must continue operating inside the decision cycle of US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

    This is the only advantage Iran has over US. Any slow down on Iran’s part will benefit US immensely. Specially in today’s geostrategic environment in which US is getting entangled more and more with its decision making apparatus getting slower and slower.

    The calls for slow down on Iran’s part specially from the current government of Iran are wrong and will greatly harm Iran in future if continued.

  113. Smith says:

    A concerned world citizen says:
    July 21, 2014 at 7:21 am

    Answer to all your questions: Cargo cult behavior.

  114. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    The notion that Iranians, Afghans, Egyptians, anybody “hates” technology is idiotic.

    Sorry can’t help you when you say idiotic things…in fact maybe you should start smoking something, you know to calm you during the manic episodes…I recommend Afghani weed or a little Kermani opium.

    The idea that there is such a thing as a uniform German “culture” is also idiotic.

    Details on this point will follow in a German language appendix, if you can read German. No? Didn’t think so, genius.

    Uniform Japanese culture yes because of its relatively isolated island situation, but even there you have differences in the north and south ends which were/are marginalized as they don’t “conform” to racial ideals.

    Japan is an outlier statistically (do you know what that means genius?)when compared to all other nations in terms of racial-cultural homogeneity.

    Thus a really shitty model for Iran to follow cause very little in common.

    Iran has to industrialize in its own way and given it’s own unique history and characteristics.

    Now if you wanna actually help in this regard, great, roll up the sleeves and stop talkin shit.

    If you just wanna hear the sound of your own voice, no thanks, you can fuck off.

    (God please, give us another war so we can send some of these spoiled little pussy bitches to become men, Ameen.)

    Again, the main reason Iranians didn’t begin seriously to industrialize until after revolution is because of the system of petrodollars which bought them what they (thought) “needed” from the west and western clients like Japan and SK- a system to the benefit of and supported by the urban middle classes, who had/and unfortunately still have an overly large portion of political power in Iranian society.

    You know the ones so chauvinistically and arrogantly loved by fyi because everybody else is just a shitty peasant brick laying muleteer, right?

    “Theories” regarding Iranian industrialization other then the one I just described to you are, generally speaking, bullshit.

  115. Karl.. says:

    Theres no need to the nazi-like approach israel is doing in Gaza

    Sniper from israel killing wounded palestinian
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f44_1405953311

  116. James Canning says:

    Smith,

    Curious notion you advance, that tourism and prostitution are the same thing.

  117. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Prior to 1914, most of the British Rothschilds were anti-Zionist. As were most upper-class Englishmen.

  118. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Most upper-class English Jews were anti-Zionist, prior to First World War.

  119. nico says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    July 21, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    “You know the ones so chauvinistically and arrogantly loved by fyi because everybody else is just a shitty peasant brick laying muleteer, right?”

    Yep.
    An individualist and freemason nihilist the fat lady is.
    In his own “enlightened” religion he adopted the US and the heart of the zionist power.
    Such Zionist power just allowed and permitted by the so called enlightment secular matrix coupled with the ploutocratic kind of political system.
    The same he gives as an example for Iran to follow.
    And he has the NERVE to placate the US as degenerated.
    Ahaha…
    Paradoxical isn’t it ?

  120. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    concerned,

    Your questions are not ignorant but your extreme self-deprecation is a little suspicious.

    Unfortunately you start with a point which for you seems clear enough but is actually debatable:

    “Could someone please explain to me why Iran still remains in the NPT – given that it’s this same NPT that’s brought nothing but misery to the Iranian people?”

    Has it really brought “nothing but misery”? Even if it no longer serves our interests- something I mentioned on the old site before bitch came around (again just repeating what I said years ago, pathetic)- there was a time when being in the NPT allowed us to advance our nuclear program in ways which otherwise would have taken much longer and much more money if we had been outside of NPT. Remember this was during the war when they even sanctioned things like barbwire, so our presence within the NPT regime gave us access to invaluable info.

    As for the other issues you raise, rest assured that Iranian responses to any US attack would be decisive, crushing and global. No point in discussing it.

    I know maybe the whole point is to get somebody to say something about it, but hey it gonna happen.

    Also your nukes-missiles-knife comparison is well a little simple minded (you said it yourself)

    In general, the “planners” who spent a significant portion of their lives on real battlefields defending Iran can be relied upon to continue defending her.

    People who left when there country needed them cause they “had better things to do” and the mentally unstable who follow them can not be relied upon to defend Iran. Hey “experience” shows this.

    How are the “techno-loving”, nuclear armed, westernized Zionist in Tel Aviv sleeping tonight? (A quick impression: “Oh! Sirens! Quickly! Grab the gas mask, off to the bomb shelter!”)

    And finally, seriously relax, Tehran will not be “nuked”- ever- never- ever (I’m referring to probability not logical impossibility).

    Constantly crying wolf on this one is a sign of evil intentions or just “a simple mind”.

    It is not in Iran’s interests currently to have a nuclear arsenal.

    What will be in a couple decades? Well that’s there problem at that time, but we will have given them the nuclear infrastructure to break out if the vali at that time decides it’s in Iran’s interests.

    I hope that answers your questions.

  121. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    nico-jan,

    In these special nights of power we pray for his salvation and return to the blessed soil of his homeland- to die among the peasants, brick layers and muleteers who would welcome him with open arms even if he in his heart hates them.

    Why? Because they are real, better and more advanced human beings than he is.

    Especially the old illiterate ones.

    Purifying ones soul of deep seated complexes and unjustified hatreds is among the hardest tasks, nearly impossible when one is old and close to death.

    The only thing that can help is God’s infinite mercy.

    The problem occurs when one has abandoned hope in that as well.

  122. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 21, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    “Most upper-class English Jews were anti-Zionist, prior to First World War.”

    So what ?

    Does it make the centuries old Anglo and then US alliance with the community any less true ?

    Or maybe are you suggesting that that alleviate the Anglo moral responsibility as they did not know when they made their pact ?
    Anyway that is pointless, as one needs to accomodate the whims of one’s spouse.
    And in such circumstances each partner is as much reponsible as the other.

  123. fyi says:

    All:

    Why there is no Law for Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtue in Iran – even though the constitutional article exists:

    بخشی از سخنان حجت‌الاسلام والمسلمین ناطق‌نوری

    «روز‌استیضاح که به مجلس رفتم، آقای هاشمی خیلی نگران بود و گفت؛ آقای‌ناطق! استیضاح‌کنندگان خیلی قوی برخورد می‌کنند و من گفتم؛ نگران نباشید، لیست اکثریت نمایندگان مجلس که زمین گرفته‌اند را تهیه کرده‌ام، حتی اسم آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی هم بود، شروع کردم به خواندن اسامی و نمایندگان که دیدند دارم اسامی همه را می‌خوانم و آبروریزی می‌شود، گفتند نخوانید… و رأی آوردم».

  124. Pouya says:

    Smith

    Come join us! you are always welcome to try new and more effective smokes.

    I think you misunderstand what I am saying. I am not suggesting everyone should get a US handout. I am saying if the US is going to invade a country, as we did, then we must have a vision that involves the local population and advances our interest. All we did in Afganistan and Iraq is that we occupied, and fough local battles while training a bunch loser as military officers.
    The rational that somehow the Japanese and Germans were more in line with standing up for their country and scientific development is simply a Western ideology suggesting some poeple are not born with the right stuff.
    Having a positive vision for a nation once we have invaded is simply a good policy. It does not require to make Afganinstan into Germany. It does not need to be that ambitious. But it does need to be positive, comprehensive and peaceful. Afganistan is not Germany, but it can be Jordan. It can have higways, electricity, explore its own natural gas and mineral, and it can certainly have a growing agriculture instead of opium.
    You may think I am wrong, but at the end of the day our results speak for themselves. Both Afganistan and Iraq are in disaster, their militaries will likely fold, and Iraq is not the strategic friend we hoped for. Those are the results and not spectulation.

    Finally, I believe all nations can be industrialized and educated to advance in sciences. Thirty years ago, the chines were consider too dump to know what’s good for them. Our media does not talk about it but Hong Kong under the British was a segragated and uneducated population because the Brits thought they are worthless. Only when Britan was getting ready to hand over the city to the Chinese is when they brought some token of democartic reforms including public restroom where chinese were allowed to use, just 3 to 5 years before the handover. The same was said about the Indians, the Turks, The Iranians, and let’s not forget no one thought anything of the Koreans. Let me just give you one example: In 1979, Iran had a revolution and King Juan Pablo declared Spain a democracy. Thirty five years later, Iran builds cars, guns, jet fighters, drones, and has sent satellites to space. Everyone can, but Spain grew dependent on Europe.

  125. Pouya says:

    Bussed in Basiji

    Give me some of that Kermani stuff you were mentioning!!
    LOL!! but…easy!!Little too rough on the language.

    I do disagree in the following manner:
    It is largely misunderstood why Europe industrialized and ME and in particular Iran did not. It is this misunderstanding and a natural human tendency that has led the Europeans to conclude they are something special and that it was something unique to Western culture and behavior.
    Indeed, industrialization is a natural consequence of history of any humanity. The only difference is that people around the world are in different stages of development and others simply became part of the ecosystem and never took the path for development (such as the indiginous people).
    The main cause of Iran’s failure to develop industrially had much to do with global change of trading routes and Iran’s access to them. It had nothing to do with culture or petrodollars. The main reason for development is regional competition, trade and access to trading routes. During the Safavid Dynasty, they opted to sign the Bagdad Pact which gave the Safavid peace from the Ottomans in exchange for Bagdad. This meant Iran would turn Eastward and no longer had access to markets in the Mediteranian sea. Additonally, the Silk road lost its improtance and Iran lost yet another major trading route and comercial volume. Gradually, Iran declined while the Ottomans and the European where able to capitalize on increased trade, control of global trading routes (including Suez canal and even the Persin Gulf) and new and larger markets and resources from the Americas. A natural outcome of increased trade is eventual industrilization because of the need for economics of scale. On the other hand, Iran was fully cut off from global trade and eventually the Safavid collapse and Iran has continued to have weak governments.
    As one example, Napoleon wanted to control the ME but his generals (according to French records) recommended against going against Nader. They feared his military strategy and Iranian weapons which they considered superior. For that reason Napoleon opted to keep the Ottoman between himself and Nader. They even asked Nader to attack the Ottomans, but Nader recognized it as a divide and rule strategy and he instead occupied India. This is a proof that Iran also had small signs of industrilization as early as 300 years ago with production of weaponary and other goods. Subsequently, they declined for lack of trade and general slow decline of Iran and the ME as whole which led to the eventual collapse of the Ottomans as well.

  126. Empty says:

    A concerned world citizen,

    I apologize, in advance, for the length of this response. In general, Iran’s decisions would make more sense if they are viewed within a larger strategic and long-term planning and in relation to other components of the plan rather than in isolation. Only in that light, the pieces of the puzzle would fall in their place and make sense. I hope, I could briefly explain some parts and in doing that help clarify the answer to some of the questions you’ve raised. I do not necessarily think your questions are simple minded. They are in the minds of many people who may not be familiar or perhaps don’t fully understand from which hat Iran pulls all these decisions. I think the strategic thinkers in the US planning apparatus know it very well though. And that’s why their response to Iran and the belligerence toward Iran may seem too dumb. I believe they know EXACTLY what they are up against, thus all the fuss.

    1) Most planners in Iran believe that the Islamic Revolution in Iran was not a localized revolution within a specific geographic, cultural, and national boundary. They believe it was a universal one that goes beyond a geographic, national, and even a religious boundary. It was a “horn”, if you will, blown to awaken the world and people are waking up one by one. This is the same regardless of the orientation (e.g., reformer, hardliner, technocrat, etc.) that has been projected onto them. Why do they think this? Because, nearing the 4th quarter of the 20th century,

    a. God, in the west, was pronounced clinically and functionally dead. Therefore, It had no place in geopolitical theaters of the world. This was a significant miscalculation.

    b. Islam, as a world religion, “appeared to be” in comma and on its way to join the very God who had been pronounced dead. This was another significant miscalculation.

    c. Shi’a Islam were/is considered too few (and in a minority) to make a significant mark in the world, in general, and the world of Islam in particular. This was yet another significant miscalculation.

    This miscalculation, I think, was/is rooted in false analyses that see key figures (like Mirzaye Shirazi, Seyyed Abdollah Behbahani, Seyyed Mohammad Tabatabai, Sheykh Fazolallah Nouri, Mohammad Esmail Mahallati, and on and on….till Imam Khomeini and now Ayatollah Khamenei, Allameh Hasan-zadeh Amoli, Ayatollah Javadi Amoli, Ayatollah Sistani, Seyyed Hasan Nasrollah, and many more…) appearing in Shi’a politics as “flukes” rather than a pattern emerging and re-emerging and sometimes working undergroun, sometimes working “overground” rooted in a particular Shi’a doctrine and working toward a specific universal goal.

    d. To the western mind, human societies on the planet were all marching in one direction and on one road, the road of liberal materialism, paved by western modernity and protected by western technology. It was Tour de France of human civilization without a “Finish Line”. Some cycling ahead, some in the middle, and some lagging behind: yet, another significant miscalculation.

    e. Iranian revolution happened in Iran, a country right in the center of a heartland sitting on vast reserves of oil and gas EXACTLY when almost all lives on large parcels of the planet had turned oily and gassy. It chose God as The Axis around which the universe revolved and Islam as the religious guide that determines how fast or slow and how narrow or wide the revolution around The Axis occurs. For at least one and a half billion people around the globe, this is not a small happening. The west thought a Shi’a revolution would have no bearing on a predominantly Sunni world. This was another significant miscalculation.

    f. In parallel to all of the above, the western liberal economy based on the wrong assumption of unlimited resources on a planet where limitation is oozing out of its every corner has failed to provide any measure of sustainable economic, social, and political security even for the west’s own populations, let alone the rest of the world. They thought it was too big to fail and they had miscalculated.

    2) Most planners in Iran believe the US and the west made their most significant error when they attacked Iraq. But the error, in fact, acted as a significant propeller that caused the revolution around The Axis go faster than what Iranians would have anticipated otherwise. They also believed that in the past decade, the US and it’s “noche-ha” have used all methods possible to undo what they had done and they have failed big time. The most significant failing, however, has occurred in the area of “hearts and minds”.

    3) The Iranians also believe that the Islamic Awakening is very much real and alive like fire under the ashes waiting for the next blow. Why do they think this? Because:

    a. The west and its local “kolfats and nokars” have tried very hard to turn the wrath and attention of the Muslims from “without” to “within” by concocting such groups as ISIS/ISIL/IS, and their varieties. “Let Muslims kill Muslims” is their all mottos. In Libya, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, Iranians believe they west has already failed (it takes a while for people to see this though). In these failings, something extremely significant happened that I am yet to see talked about in the Western media: It was mostly Sunnis who joined the calls for Shi’a and Iranian model Bassij. The west, including alternative outlets, tried so hard to make the events look like Shi’a-Sunni infighting. But here is one glimpse at the reality of what has happened: When Ayatollah Sistani (a Shi’a) announced Fatwa that “helping the Iraqi government to maintain security and fighting the takfiri’s is a “vajebe kafa’ei” [i.e. is a duty of all Muslims till there is sufficient numbers for the task], within only 3 days, more than 2 million Iraqis volunteered. A significant number of them were Sunni. Right now, there are Iraqi Shi’a militias that are fighting side by side Sunni militias in predominantly Sunni areas of Iraq against tekfiris and the so-called IS men. This was indeed a grave miscalculation on the part of the West and the local “kolfats and nokars” and the moral and financial supports of the IS/ISIS/ISIL and other varieties.

    b. The Egyptians failed in their revolution mostly because they became very arrogant and failed to connect all the dots. They are wounded and they are driven underground. It is only a matter of time before they re-emerge (hopefully this time a bit wiser). Meanwhile, the US and its serfs have bought themselves some time before the inevitable happens. This purchase has cost them a lot especially when they could least afford it.

    c. The Palestinians now are paying the cost of the ignorance and misplaced trust of their leaders less than 3 years ago when, with the MB rising in Egypt, they got so cocky and arrogant that forgot even a simple gratitude they should have felt toward Syria, Lebanon, and Iran. They bit the hands that had helped them and that was not wise. Hopefully, this time, they are wiser.

    4) The Iranian planners are planning at global level and are performing for a global audience. They clearly have stated that they do not wish to do something that would turn them into a closed system like North Korea. For their plans, they need to be an organically “open” system (this is different from mechanically open systems). They also feel quite confident that they have the capacity to withstand any attack and they are capable of exacting severe pains on multiple fronts on potential aggressors. Why they think this, I will not go into details as most of it has been discussed and if it hasn’t, it should not be openly discussed.

    5) The Iranian planners believe the evens in Syria and Iraq opened an excellent gate for putting in place measures that would significantly strengthen these countries and would pave the way for creating an indigenous and sustainable model of Islamic participatory governance and resistance with a significant participation of the Sunni populations. After the “fitna” in Iraq has fizzled away, people will begin to see the new picture. Condi Rice was right about the birth pangs of the new Middle East except that their baby was still born. Ours is turning out to be a beautiful and thriving one hidden from the view (for the time being). These events, too, have cost the West and the local nokars and kolfats dearly and the cost keeps on rising exactly when they could least afford it.

    6) The Iranian planners believe their real war is a soft war at a world stage. For this, all international arenas and laws (such as UN, WHO, NPT, etc) serve as platforms to demonstrate one thing: The western model for managing the world is irrational, aggressive, criminal, deceitful, non-respecting of its own promises, war monger, a miserable failure, corrupt, bankrupt, … (the adjectives could go on). In contrast, Iranians are rational, non-aggressive, strive for rule of law, honest, respect their own promises, peace and security monger for ALL people, failure resistant, and thriving.

    So, if you consider the above, Iran’s decision making with respect to particulars makes better sense.

  127. Smith says:

    Pouya says:
    July 21, 2014 at 9:46 pm

    No, thanks. My curiosity in drugs is only scientific as I am myself a teetotaler.

    Sorry about misunderstanding. I did not know I was talking to an American viceroy with a “soft heart” for the populace of the colonies. My apologies.

    Just keep in mind that not every one wants what you think they want. Take the case of Afghanistan the country currently under your occupation. I am sure you have no idea about Pakhtonwali and the role it plays in Afghan culture, politics and specially wars. You are dead wrong; not everyone in your colonies want to have highways, electricity and mineral “industry”. By the way, you seem to be unfamiliar with history of science as well. Seeing the size and depth of misconceptions you are carrying around, it will be very difficult to make you learn anew.

    So, that is all and I leave it at that.

  128. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    July 21, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    Transparency, truth, science and wisdom have always been slaughtered in sacrifice at the feet of “maslehat”, lies, corruption and hypocrisy. This has been the history of Iran and all other Islamic lands.

    Cargo cult is strong and is kicking like a mule. And it will remain like this until the people change their nekbati culture of ignorance and their extreme love of it.

  129. Smith says:

    The love of ignorance and the tolerance for ignorant as well as the intolerance for the criticism among the cargo cult nation of Iran: http://khabaronline.ir/detail/365821/weblog/jafarian

    .
    .
    .

    شما به هر اسمی که جلوی شفافیت عالمانه را بگیرید، و پرده ای از جهل در اطراف علم بکشید، چه به اسم تقدس باشد، چه به اسم مصلحت، چه به اسم منافع و یا هر چیز دیگر، در واقع نوعی اغراء به جهل کرده اید و علم را در پای جهل ذبح نموده اید.
    به نظر می رسد برای سنجش وضعیت علم و دانایی در یک نقطه، بهتر باشد روی این نکته تکیه کنیم که در این جامعه، تولید علم بیشتر است یا تولید جهل؟

    .
    .
    .

    در این میان، مردمی هم که عادت به «اغراء به جهل»‌ دارند، مقصرند. آنها که پای سخن هر خطیبی می نشینند و صدایشان به اعتراض در نمی آید، آنها که هر تبلیغی را می شنوند، اما نسبت به محتوای نادرست آن اعتراض نمی کنند، مردمی که عادت به «نقد کردن» ندارند، اینها هم در تشویق آنها که اغراء به جهل می کنند، مقصرند. این که معاویه بتواند باطل خویش را حق جلوه دهد و علی (ع) نتواند حق خویش را به مردم بنمایاند، حکایت از مردمی دارد که «فریب خورده» هستند و «جهل» را بر «علم» ترجیح می دهند. یک جامعه وقتی در تشویق به جهل و فریب به آن از حد خارج شد، همچنان ته چاه خواهد ماند و در اثر دست و پا زدن بیهوده خود، نابود خواهد شد.
    نباید تردید کرد که روزانه، حجم تولید جهل، هزاران برابر تولید علم است، فریب کاری های عمدی، نفهمی های غیر عمدی، اصول موضوعه بی پایه، سنت های جاهلانه جا افتاده، اخلاقیات فاسد حاکم بر مناسبات، و دهها عامل دیگر که زمینه توسعه و تولید جهل هستند و از علم پرهیز دارند.
    به نظر می رسد، سهم تولید جهل وهزینه ای که از درآمد خالص و ناخالص ملی صرف آن می شود، بسیار بسیار بی از هزینه ای است که برای تولید علم بکار می رود. مردمی که جهل پذیری را اصل اولیه خود کرده اند، هیچ گاه راه ترقی را نخواهند رفت. برای این کار باید فکری کرد و معیارهای درست علم و جهل را به مردم شناساند و قدرت نقادی را در آنان تقویت کرد.

  130. Smith says:

    The short history of a national coma: http://khabaronline.ir/detail/366193/weblog/jafarian

    ما در دو سطح با علم کار داریم: یکی متن علم یا علومی که اجتماع ما در سطوح مختلف با آن درگیر است و شکلی از آن را دارد. دیگری بحث های مربوط به فلسفه و تاریخ علم که نگاه بالاتری نسبت به علم دارد. این توجه در فلسفه و منطق وجود داشت و به نظرم در دوره میانی خیلی جدی مورد توجه بود. نه پیش و نه پس از آن، به آن جدیت به ماهیت علم نگریسته نشد. فیلسوفان و متکلمان باید از «علم» دفاع می کردند. ماهیت آن را شرح می دادند. ارزش و اعتبار واقع نمایی آن را بیان می کردند و در برابر افراد ضد علم که به اسم اخباری گری و ظاهربینی، مخالف هر نوع تفکر بوده و آن را دور شدن از دین می دانستند، مقاومت می کردند. رساله هایی که در باره مراتب علوم در قرن سوم تا پنجم نوشته شده بسیار عالی است. بعدش اگر چیزی نوشته شده، تقلید از همان حرفها و طرح آنها به شکل منحط بوده و هست.

  131. Karl.. says:

    Smith
    about Egypt/Iran

    Isnt it rather about political views? ANd not so much about importing related principles? Rather Sunni/Shia split, sunni gov hate for MB/Hamas etc?

  132. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Pouya-jan,

    Yes historically trade routes and regional competition are a factor but petrodollars- more precisely the petrodollar model- was the most significant factor in recent history.

    In fact if you look historically producing for the domestic national market is always a necessary element in industrialization. IOW, local industrialization is always based to various degrees on producing stuff for your own national consumption, not for exports. Yes smaller countries like Holland are somewhat different in that way but in general local industry is always first and foremost for local national use.

    Britain and France later expanded this towards there colonies but even in that model the use by the metropole remained the main market.

    In Iran when the oil industry happened, basically the model became, selling oil and consumers using the money- intermediated through central govt, large national companies like sherkat naft and banks- to buy UK/US/German consumer and industrial products.

    The “intermediary” class in this was the urban middle class- particularly after the OPEC revolution which flooded Iran with petrodollars. Instead of having a real national industrial policy which all industrial nations have/had- the Shah regime told the dalals to use the money to buy foreign stuff- including factories. Why produce it if the US/Germans/Japanese make it so nicely for us?

    This was literally the thinking back then, similarly to the way the PG Arabs think these days.

    This thinking exists still today as evidenced by the self-hating comments of some. Well if we are genetically/culturally incapable of making good stuff better to buy from the demi-god Japanese, right? Hey go get the corporate representation of that awesome Japanese company instead making the effort (at least takes 2 generations) of building a factory and producing high quality products, right?

    More money for me in less time and less hassle, right?

    So we were always part of “trade routes”- oil traded out of Iran for pieces of printed paper- the oil industry never employing more than 3-4% of the population, these pieces of printed paper traded for all sorts of stuff from the superior races. In the process the local dalals use the pieces of printed paper they got as commisions to buy homes, real estate, stuff in Europe/North America and establish a decadent feudal lifestyle in the homeland (for example continuing absentee landlordism model).

    That’s why SL’s economic focus is on consumption of local made products- even if in some cases they are lower quality than imports.

  133. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Seeing the size and depth of misconceptions you are carrying around, it will be very difficult to make you learn anew.”

    What an arrogant piece of shit you are.

    Any original ideas of your own other than what you copy from me or copy-paste from Dr. Jafarian?

  134. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    concerned,

    Iran military might aimed at countering great enemy: Cmdr.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/21/372235/iran-might-aims-to-counter-big-enemy/

    ““The power and defense capability of the Islamic Republic of Iran have been designed and prepared for the great enemy and well beyond the level of regular countries,” Deputy Chairman of the Iranian Armed Forces Chief of Staff Brigadier General Masoud Jazayeri said in a Monday statement.”

    “The Islamic Republic has repeatedly said its military might is based on deterrence.”

  135. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    nico,

    List of Thatcher ministers 1979–90

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thatcher_ministers_1979%E2%80%9390

    Lost count counting the number of Zionist Jews in the cabinets…many of them James’ close backside friends probably.

    Let’s also not forget Michael Howard (aka Michael Hecht) leader of the Tories for a few years and Milliband leader of Labour.

    He probably thought that would come on the site and start ranting about the Jews, then we would forget about the real animals- the English elites. What a simpleton.

  136. fyi says:

    Pouya says:

    July 21, 2014 at 9:46 pm

    I think your statements makes it clear that you consider historical developments in Europe to be normative for the rest of mankind.

    I think that view is both theoretically and empirically proven to be wrong.

    I agree with you that US and EU have failed to paint a positive view of the future for the conquered countries or the contested ones in the Middle East.

    And it is too late to change the proposition “We will beat you until you learn to love our fantasies in Palestine” with something more practicable.

    And I think also that you are wrong about industrialization – some people cannot live with that level of discipline – take the Gypsies in Europe. Or the Nigerian children that could not be taught plane Euclidean geometry. Or the Polynesian people.

    Until and unless the uniqueness of the European History in all its entirety has been accepted, we will not make much headway in devising successful strategies for “Development” in the non-European world.

  137. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Or the Nigerian children that could not be taught plane Euclidean geometry.”

    Or maybe it was an arrogant piece of shit like you who didn’t know how to teach them properly that was the problem, not the children.

    “Until and unless the uniqueness of the European History in all its entirety has been accepted, we will not make much headway in devising successful strategies for “Development” in the non-European world.”

    Until and unless the amount of contested and debatable opinions you have inserted as “facts” in the above sentence has been understood by you, you will not make much headway in reaching wisdom.

    The positive aspect of your arrogance is that you do not deem it necessary to hide your ignorant racism.

  138. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    July 22, 2014 at 9:31 am

    “Until and unless the uniqueness of the European History in all its entirety has been accepted, we will not make much headway in devising successful strategies for “Development” in the non-European world.”

    This is a rather strange assertion! Particularly from a Western scholarly point of view.

    A passing familiarity with the work of eminent cultural anthropologists lays bare this Eurocentric myth. Rather than me pontificating on the topic, here are some pioneers of cultural anthropology talking about it. I think the last sentence of the quote from Eric Wolf is rather condemnatory!

    Here is Ruth Benedict:
    “When all civilization is ascribed to the [Europeans], the claim is the same one which any anthropologist can hear any day from primitive tribes – only they tell the story of themselves. They too believe that all that is important in the world begins and ends with them.”

    And, here, more to the point, is Eric Wolf:
    “We have been taught, inside the classroom and outside of it, that there exists an entity called the West, and that one can think of this West as a society and civilization independent of and in opposition to other societies and civilizations [i.e. the East]. Many of us even grew up believing that thisWest has [an autonomous] genealogy, according to which ancient Greece begat Rome, Rome begat Christian Europe, Christian Europe begat the Renaissance, the Renaissance the Enlightenment, the Enlightenment political democracy and the industrial revolution. Industry, crossed with democracy, in turn yielded the United States, embodying the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness . . . [This is] misleading, first, because it turns history into a moral success story, a race in time in which each [Western] runner of the race passes on the torch of liberty to the next relay. History is thus converted into a tale about the furtherance of virtue, about how the virtuous [i.e. the West] win out over the bad guys [the East].”

  139. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    July 22, 2014 at 10:42 am

    I am calling things the way there are and not based on preconceived notions of how the world ought to be.

    I have received instruction in cultural anthropology and I am familiar with the models and the arguments.

    I do not have any trouble with Mr. Wolf’s statement – it is true as far as it goes and certainly Western and Russian historians, for the most part, have written history in the manner you have identified – an inevitable march of progress. I think the late Will and Ariel Durant’s work certainly was written along those lines.

    My contention is, however, that European history – including that of the New World – is not normative and it is unique to the extent that its lessons and conclusions cannot be directly applied – without further adaptations, alterations, and a long gestation period, to the rest of mankind.

    The late Julius Nyerere pursued a policy of wheat production in Tanzania modeled after that of Canada. It failed.

    Once the damned Belgians left Congo, the entire structure that they had setup decayed and died; note that this was not caused solely by the dictatorship of the late MBotu, Stalin was a dictator too, but by general cluelessness of the Congolese in how to operate a state.

    Or consider: as long as the English were running the show in Iraq and in Egypt, those countries had some limited form of Democracy and the Rule of Law. After the English left, and to this day, nothing better has replaced the English Rule.

    I am not saying anything profound, I think it would be a good idea for non-Western people to study the Western Civilization in depth in order to really understand it; as opposed to viewing it as some sort of smorgasbord of technologies, political theories, and sciences from which one can pick and chose at will.

  140. Rehmat says:

    This year, the International Al-Quds (Jerusalem) Day on July 25, 2014 is more significant than the pervious ones as currently Gaza is under attack by the United States armed neo-Nazis. This year, the free citizens of the world not only show support for the oppressed Palestinian but use the even to collect funds to aid the victims of the world’s most immoral army. Watch a video below showing the Israeli neoNazi snipers killing wounded Palestinian civilians.

    Large rallies in support for Palestinians struggle to recover their ancestral land stolen by Europe’s unwanted Jews will be held in Tehran, Karachi, Islamabad, Beirut, Damascus, London, New York, Paris, Bonn, Sydney and Toronto.

    Lebanese Islamic Resistance Hizbullah has announced that its secretary-general Sheikh Hassan Nasrullah will address the Al-Quds Day rally to be held at Sayyed Shuhadaa Complex in Beirut’s southern suburb (Dahiyeh) on July 25. Hizbullah leaders have condemned Arab rulers for their silence over the on-going Holocaust of Gaza citizen. So Jew soldiers have killed over 600 civilians including a five-month-old baby. Three Jew soldiers have died while carrying-out mass murder of Palestinian civilians.

    The United States taxpayers’ have helped the Zionist regime to kill a Palestinian kid every three days for the last 13 years.

    Iranian student groups have deplored Arab rulers dead silence over Gaza massacre.

    “Shame on you Arab leaders! Shame on you who have taken the humanity to a slaughterhouse! The Gaza Strip has been entangled in a catastrophe and you have kept mum on the Israeli crimes! It seems that you have issued full permission for the Palestinians’ massacre,” the statement by the University of Tehran’s Islamic Community of Students said on Sunday.

    The International Al-Quds Day, which falls on the last Friday of the month of Ramadan, was named by the late Founder of the Islamic Revolution, Imam Khomeini in support of the oppressed Palestinian people.

    In Canada, Muslims, Christians, Jews and Hindus will be holding pro-Palestinian rallies and Iftar fundraising parties in Toronto, Halifax, Vancouver, St. John and Calgary. The largest Iftar fundraising dinner will be at a Mississauga Convention center. Anyone can join the Iftar party by paying $30 toward Gaza Relief Fund.

    The Canadian Jewish Defense League (JDL) has announced that it plans to protest at the Queens Park (Toronto) during the Al-Quds rally. The JDL was banned in the United States and UK due to its terrorist activities.

    In November 2010, Lauren Booth wrote an open letter to her brother-in-law, Tony Blair, former prime minister of Britain and declared a War Criminal by War Criminal Tribunal in Kuala Lumpur in 2012. In the letter she describes her experience being one of the one million Iranians who joined the International Al-Quds Day in Tehran.

    And finally, if anyone is interested to know, who are behind the current massacre in Gaza, Ukraine, Syria and several other places – and how to resolve this and other Jewish proxy wars around the world, he/she should read John Kaminski’s latest article here.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/07/22/international-al-quds-day-2014/

  141. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    July 22, 2014 at 11:08 am

    Maybe you’re right after all; though the success story of China would be a measure to judge your statements. Also, about Durants’ work, I’m sure they didn’t look at the history as a tale of the Oxidant’s rise and Orient’s eventual demise; they had asserted time and again that “the story of the civilization” is in fact a story of the man’s [and woman’s] civilization, not a quest by rationalist westerner, but a reciprocal relation between all human beings.
    Anytime you have a doubt about who is on the winning side of the story, consider that great men of science and philosophy, save a few, didn’t consider themselves the only geniuses on the earth. St. Thomas Aquinas, Avicenna and Aristotle would have really appreciated each others works. I don’t consider myself an accomplished scientist (I’m a physician and I work in hematology and oncology) and I hope I’ll be averse to racism, ethnocentrism and ego-centrism; unfortunately some of the things you said about Nigerian children seem to be wrong, as mathematics is a universal language, understood by all. Maybe it takes Euclid to teach Geometry properly.

  142. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 21, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    “I think the high rate of intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews in the US is a very good thing. Your opinion?”

    Surely there is a natural trend for jewish integration and melting in western societies.
    Whether the jewish people will lose their talmudic orientation be it first religiously and then culturaly and at what pace is another question all together.

    However it is well known fact that the jewish leader for millenia held the community united through various ways and tricks.
    Actually it is well known fact that the so called jewish ghettos in Eastern Europe were not imposed upon jews by the rest of the population but were a self implemented rule following talmudic and rabbinic command.
    Such rabbinic command deeming the rest of the population soiled and impure.

    Another example is the vividely debated question about the interest of the zionist leadership in dealing with nazi germany and the great “benefit” they get from the holocaust to pull imigrants in occupied palestine.

    The jewish political zionism maybe was subject to discussion in the jewish community in 1900.
    But it is established fact that that has been the jewish official political line since then through the world jewish congress and other institutions.

    Today almost all the jewish population and institutions are zionist. Few exceptions exist but they are not truly repredentative.

    Is the jewish popultation manipulated by a handfull of leaders to keep them united ? Sure.
    Did they succeed in gathering the jewish population under their project ? Sure.
    Are the very majority of jews (active or passive) zionists ? Sure.
    By keeping the Israi project going is the jewish leadership also after keeping the jewish population arround the world united and does it somehow prevent the jewish assimilation by keeping a open wound and relgious/cultural difference with western christian population ? Sure.
    Is the zionist project is religious/ethnic ? Sure.
    Is the goal to keep the jews in a modern religious/cultural ghetto ? Incidentally it is the conequence.
    Was that forethought and the plan all along ? Well the jewish history for millenia may lead to such conclusion.

    As a conclusion, my answer to your question is therefore obvious.
    My take is that there will be no (significant) assimilation as long as the Israel issue is open.

  143. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    July 22, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Thank you for your comments.

    I know people manufactured parts in their bodies that and have undergone procedures that saved their lives or fundamentally improved the quality of their lives.

    None of those parts and the accompanying procedures came out of Japan or any non-Western country.

    They came out of Europe and North America – not even Russia.

    Did you know that when tobacco manufacturers stopped using arsenic in tobacco manufacture cancer rates went higher?

    There is research now again – afte an interruption of 100 years or more – on therapies based on low dosages of poisons.

    Why don’t Iranian research physicians work on the poison therapies – does not require a lot of high-tech equipment and the animal models could be effectively produced inside Iran?

    I tell you why: the culture is not there.

    If you find my assertions regarding the Nigerian children, research ethnographic reports – it is there from trustworthy informants.

    Being empirical is not being a racist; for all I know, Jews might be the smartest people in the world – judging by the number of Noble Prizes they have won.

  144. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    July 22, 2014 at 3:55 am

    It is as you say. Politics, religion, ideology and sectarianism. But one has to look at the whole picture. And the whole picture is more than these. For instance, Can Iran buy Egypt’s army? Does Iranian economy, scientific development and industrial capacity allow for Iran not only to take care of her needs but also Egypt’s too? If Egypt today decides to completely side with Iran, who will supply Egypt wheat? Who will supply Egypt Air with aircraft and spares? Who will pay for these?

    These questions are not theoretical. Egyptian statesmen must consider these acute facts before deciding on the strategic alliance for their country. They know that Iran is not able to help them. US can. Russia can. EU can.

    If Iran wants to change the world, the only way to do it, is through science and technology in tandem with its ideology. And this brings us to the fact that Mr fyi has been pointing out on this forum about the need for studying the history of European people and why European people and their affiliates invent 800 medicines in the past 200 years but Muslims invent a big 0? Why 1.5 billion Muslims in a century invent and discover less than a small Swiss town does in a year? Why a German lady can study Islam and another German lady can study Geometry while the Norwegian children can not study Books (bokoharam) and Somali girls can not study Christianity?

    Ever wonder why tens of thousands of world changing discoveries and inventions come out of each western country but not even 2 or 3 out of Iran? Why is that so? Islam? Genetical neurological insufficiency? Culture? One as a scientist has to consider all possibilities. I personally think it is because of the useless culture.

  145. Smith says:

    Smith says:
    July 22, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    typo correction: … the Nigerian children can not study books….

    Of course Norwegian children whatever they want.

  146. Smith says:

    BBC quoting EU Commission is saying that EU should not depend on Russia for nuclear fuel, nuclear enrichment and other nuclear supplies: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28203907

    Anyone else smelling hypocrisy in there?

  147. fyi says:

    All:

    A 2011 study on poor performance of Nigerian children in Mathematic

    http://ijes.info/1/2/4254129.pdf

    and

    stanonline org/journal/pdf/p8.pdf

    The problem itself was observed at least 100 years ago.

  148. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I asked if you agree with me that the high rate of intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews in the US is a good thing.

    Your response seems to be that the high rate of Jews marrying non-Jews will not help to get rid of Israel. Or did I miss your point?

  149. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    What are the “conquered countries” in the Middle East?

  150. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 22, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    “I asked if you agree with me that the high rate of intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews in the US is a good thing.

    Your response seems to be that the high rate of Jews marrying non-Jews will not help to get rid of Israel. Or did I miss your point?”

    My, my Canning.
    I tought that your question was subtle and leading to high intermarriage rate = assimilation = normalization of the jewish question.
    But no.
    That was not subtle.
    Only bottomless pit of idiocy !
    What would I care to comment about the rate of intermarriage in the US otherwise ?
    Am I legitimate or relevant to comment about that whether it good or bad ? No.

    I was trying to elaborate about the topic at hand. That is the jewish influence in western civilization from the enlightment and after…
    My very fault, to have forgotten that you have as much memory and capacity to hold conversation as a bacteria.

  151. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    July 22, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan.

  152. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    July 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm
    Dear Sir,
    Thank you for reading my post and taking the time to write back.
    About the fist paragraph, if you are referring to prosthetic parts, past 60 years have indeed been revolutionary in terms of constant progress and that is almost entirely due to unprecedented advances in medicine, spear-headed by the US. Yet, this article might persuade you that other countries are establishing a place for themselves;
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/07/02/the_bleeding_edge_medical_technology_minnesota_medtronic
    Second, you spoke of “low dosages of poisons”. Indeed substances conventionally known as toxins such as Arsenic and Nitrogen Mustard are used as chemotherapy agents; but in a wider sense any medicine is deemed a “poison”, the only difference being in the dosage (see Therapeutic Index and Minimum Lethal Dose). If we consider you are not talking about something like Homeopathy, and I encourage you to provide a reference for the section you claimed about arsenic in cigarette papers, we arrive at your suggestion about Empirical Pharmacology. Unfortunately, scientific research in exact sciences doesn’t work like that! I mean, it isn’t Alchemy where you mix stuff and record your observations; we are passed that phase of scientific endeavor.
    At this moment there are a handful of experimental pharmacological studies being run in the Endocrinology Department of the academic facility where I work. One focuses on angiogenesis and the other on facilitating intra-cellular and trans-cellular transport of Glucose (both in diabetes melitus); these studies didn’t start on lab animals using “everyday” tools around the house, rather they started on in vitro cultured fibroblasts driven from human cells, then spectrophotometry was used to separate the effective substance, then granulating the substance into medication, etc.
    So, in a sentence, experimental research, at least in the field of medicine, is not what Sir Francis Bacon envisaged, not any more.
    I apologize to both Mr and Mrs Leverett, for this place is supposed to be about, let’s say the Middle East and US foreign policy, not which culture, deity or race is stronger; we are not race horses, are we? (Just to be sure, we are all humans, so “medically” EXACTLY the same).

  153. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    How very curious, that you simply do not want to say whether you see the high rate of intermarriage in the US (between Jews and non-Jews) as a good thing.

    There was considerable intermarriage between Shia and Sunni in Iraq, prior to US invasion in 2003. Was such intermarriage a good thing, in your view?

  154. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Iran is a “conquered country”, in your view?

  155. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    July 23, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    “How very curious, that you simply do not want to say whether you see the high rate of intermarriage in the US (between Jews and non-Jews) as a good thing.

    There was considerable intermarriage between Shia and Sunni in Iraq, prior to US invasion in 2003. Was such intermarriage a good thing, in your view?”

    Based on which criterion ?
    Your racialist one ?
    I have no such racialist criterion and I do not lecture or pontificate on that.
    You seem to be proud to say that you consider that a good thing.
    Your racialist criterion only shows your disgusting false progressive tendencies.

  156. Pouya says:

    Bussed-in-Basiji

    I am not sure that what you say does not fit with my presentation. I think the difference is that the petri-dollar issue is a more narrow time in history. I am speaking as to why Iran, and eventually the Ottoaman’s who were cut off from Iran and got entangled with the Europeans in conflict, eventually collapsed and brought down the ME over the past 350 years. The effects of Petro-dollars as you correctly point out is a more recent and narrower point in time.
    Your point on the importance of developing the national economy is the most important effect on a national economy is spot on. But at some point that development will influence the region and has to have an outlet. That happened with Japan and Germany and when they were blocked they both went to war.
    I also point to the failure of both Iran and the Ottomans to keep themselves separate and losing their traditional trading routes as examples of failure of both nations making terrible policy mistakes that isolated themselves not just from themselves but from flow of ideas and know how from the world around them. It was self defeating. And yes they are many good things they could have done internally to mitigate those short comings.

    FYI

    I just want to point out that I did not make a universal statement. I clearly separated some cultures have chosen to live within the limitations of the environment they live in, and I pointed out the indiginous people around the world. These people live in uniformity with the nature around them. Are they less wise because their historical development has been in unison with the land they live in? Should all humanity be industrialized. But if we narrow our conversation to people who clearly have chosen to live in an industrial world and have fallen behind, such as the ME, I argue it is not because they don’t have the European culture rather course of history and decision they themselves made have been the principal cause. In case of the ME, one major reason was the peace deal made between Iran and Ottomans whose end result was to isolate both and bring an end to their international trade routes, rather their ability to learn and develop. You must compare the European culture in the 15th century to that of the culture in ME at the same period of time. You may underestimate the administrative, infrastructure and cultural development of Iran under the Safavid which had amazed many European writers and were second to none for its time. It begs the question why there was a decline when the Europeans lived under the same type of government and did not have democracies.