What Saudi Arabia’s War in Yemen and Iran’s Regional Strategy Are Really About

The World Financial Review has published our latest piece, “Saudi Arabia’s Yemen Offensive, Iran’s ‘Proxy’ Strategy, and the Middle East’s New ‘Cold War.’”  To read the article, click here; we’ve also appended the text (with links) below:

 Saudi Arabia’s Yemen Offensive, Iran’s ‘Proxy’ Strategy, and the

Middle East’s New ‘Cold War’      

Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 Riyadh’s war in Yemen marks a dramatic escalation in its efforts to roll back Iran’s rising influence in the Middle East.  Saudi Arabia portrays its Yemen campaign simply as a battle of “good” Arabs and Sunnis supporting Yemen’s legitimate government against “evil” Iranians trying to overthrow it via local Shi’a “proxies”—reiterating a generalized Saudi (and Israeli) narrative about Iran’s use of proxy allies to consolidate regional “hegemony.”  More considered analysis shows that Iran’s “proxy” ties are part of an effective strategy to expand political participation in contested regional venues.  While Saudi Arabia (like Israel) considers this a mortal threat, it is essential to effective conflict resolution.  Riyadh’s intensely sectarian response—including its Yemen war—now fuels what some call a new Saudi-Iranian/Sunni’- Shi’a “Cold War” in the Middle East.

Riyadh’s increasingly destructive war in Yemen has sparked overripe discussion in Western capitals about Iran’s use of “proxies” to subvert otherwise “legitimate” Middle Eastern governments.  Driving such discussion is a self-serving narrative, promoted by Israel as well as by Saudi Arabia, about Tehran’s purported quest to “destabilize” and, ultimately, “take over” the region.

Assessments of this sort have, of course, been invoked to justify—and elicit Western support for—Saudi intervention in Yemen.  More broadly, the Israeli-Saudi narrative about Iranian ambitions is framed to prevent the United States from concluding a nuclear deal with Tehran—or, failing that, to keep Washington from using a deal as a springboard for comprehensively realigning U.S.-Iranian relations.

Determination to forestall Iran’s international normalization by hyping its “hegemonic” regional agenda was on lurid display in Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s much-watched March 3, 2015 address to the U.S. Congress.  As Netanyahu warned his audience,

“Backed by Iran, Shiite militias are rampaging through Iraq.  Backed by Iran, Houthis are seizing Yemen, threatening the strategic straits at the mouth of the Red Sea…Iran is busy gobbling up the Middle East.”

Two days after Netanyahu spoke in Washington, then-Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal offered Riyadh’s version of this narrative, stressing Iran’s “interference in affairs of Arab countries.”  With U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry beside him, Saud recapitulated a reading of Tehran’s regional strategy regularly expounded by Saudi elites:

“We are, of course, worried about atomic energy and atomic bombs.  But we’re equally concerned about nature of action and hegemonistic tendencies that Iran has in the region.  These elements are the elements of instability in the region.  We see Iran involved in Syria and Lebanon and Yemen and Iraq…Iran is taking over [Iraq]… It promotes terrorism and occupies lands.  These are not the features of countries which want peace and seek to improve relations with neighboring countries.”

Given all that is at stake in the Middle East, it is important to look soberly at claims by Israel, Saudi Arabia, and their surrogates about Iran “gobbling up” the region.  Sober evaluation starts by thinking through, in a fact-based way, how Iranian strategy—including its “proxy” component—actually works.  It also entails dispassionate examination of what really concerns Saudi Arabia and some other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states about Iran’s regional role.

Playing Defense

Since the 1979 revolution that ended monarchical rule in Iran and created the Islamic Republic, Iranian strategy has been fundamentally defensive.  Unlike other Middle Eastern powers—or the United States, for that matter—the Islamic Republic has never attacked another state or even threatened to do so.

The revolutionaries who ousted the last shah promised to restore Iran’s real sovereignty after a century and a half of rule by puppet regimes beholden to external powers.  From the Islamic Republic’s founding, its leaders have viewed the United States—the world’s superpower, whose ambitions to consolidate a highly militarized, pro-American political and security order in the Middle East condition it to oppose independent power centers there—as the biggest threat to fulfilling this revolutionary commitment.  After the United States, Iranian policymakers have seen Israel—a U.S. ally with aspirations to military dominance in its neighborhood—as a serious threat to the Islamic Republic’s security and strategic position.  Tehran has also been deeply concerned about Saudi Arabia leveraging its ties to Washington to advance its intensely anti-Iranian agenda—including the arming and funding of violently anti-Shi’a groups like al-Qa’ida and the Taliban.

The Islamic Republic’s leaders have designed its foreign policy and national security strategy to preserve Iran’s territorial and political integrity in the face of these threats.  The aim is not to establish Iran’s regional hegemony; it is to prevent any other regional or extra-regional power from attaining hegemony over Iran’s strategic environment.  Even the U.S. Defense Department acknowledges the defensive character of Iranian strategy; as a recent Pentagon report puts it, “Iran’s military doctrine is defensive.  It is designed to deter an attack, survive an initial strike, retaliate against an aggressor, and force a diplomatic solution to hostilities while avoiding any concessions that challenge its core interests.”

Leaving aside intentions, there is the more objective matter of the Islamic Republic’s capabilities to perpetrate aggression in its regional neighborhood.  Simply put, Iran today has effectively no capacity to project significant conventional military power beyond its borders.

To be sure, the revolutionaries who took power in 1979 inherited the last shah’s U.S.-built military.  But Washington cut off logistical and technical support shortly after the revolution—a debilitating measure exacerbated by an embargo on military transfers from most other countries as the fledgling Islamic Republic fought off, from 1980 to 1988, a (U.S.-and Saudi-backed) war of aggression by Saddam Husayn’s Iraq.  After the war, Iran shifted resources from the military into reconstruction and development, reducing its conventional military capabilities to marginal levels.  Today, the United States spends almost seventy times more on its military than Iran does.  Saudi Arabia, with one-quarter Iran’s population, spends over five times as much; the GCC collectively spends eight times as much.

Cultivating “Proxies”

Given these realities, assertions that the Islamic Republic poses an offensive threat to its neighbors are baseless; to borrow a phrase from the U.S. Army, Iran won’t be parking its tanks in anybody’s front yard anytime soon.  To protect Iran’s territorial and political integrity, the Islamic Republic has developed increasingly robust capabilities for asymmetric defense and deterrence that it can credibly threaten to use in response to aggression against it.  Among these capabilities are ballistic missiles armed with conventional explosives and a range of interrelated systems—anti-ship missiles, submarines, mine-laying systems, and large numbers of small “fast attack” boats—to disrupt Persian Gulf shipping, including both U.S. warships and vessels transporting oil.

Even with such capabilities, threats to the Islamic Republic’s security and independence are magnified by what military planners call “lack of strategic depth.”  Iran today has land, maritime, and littoral borders with fifteen states.  None is a natural ally; most have been hostile to the idea of an Islamic republic in Iran.  Many of the Islamic Republic’s neighbors and other states in its regional environment are also susceptible to co-optation as anti-Iranian platforms by America, Israel, and/or Saudi Arabia.  To compensate, Tehran has cultivated ties to sympathetic constituencies in other states open to cooperation with the Islamic Republic.

The Islamic Republic has made a point of aligning with constituencies systematically marginalized by their countries’ existing power structures:  Shi’a majorities in Iraq and Bahrain; Lebanon’s Shi’a plurality; Shi’a and anti-Taliban Sunnis in Afghanistan; Zaidis in Yemen; Iraqi Kurds; occupied Palestinians.  By helping such communities organize to press their grievances more effectively, Tehran creates options for influencing on-the-ground developments in contested venues across the Islamic Republic’s strategic environment.

For more than three decades, Tehran’s proxy partnerships have helped it push back against hostile initiatives—e.g., U.S. military intervention in Lebanon, Israel’s occupation of southern Lebanon, Saudi-backed expansion of Taliban control in Afghanistan, Saddam’s antagonism toward the Islamic Republic, U.S. occupation of Iraq—that threatened Iran’s strategic position.  They have also enabled Tehran to reduce the chances that nearby states—Lebanon, Afghanistan, post-Saddam Iraq, Bahrain (where America’s Fifth Fleet is based)—will again be used as platforms to attack the Islamic Republic or otherwise undermine its security and independence.

Over time, these payoffs from the proxy component of the Islamic Republic’s regional strategy are amplified by Iranian allies’ political gains.  Given the chance, Iran’s partners have repeatedly shown themselves capable of winning elections in their local settings, and winning them for the right reasons:  because they represent unavoidable constituencies with legitimate grievances.  Tehran doesn’t manufacture its partners by paying people as mercenaries.  It didn’t create Iraq’s Shi’a majority, or Bahrain’s; it didn’t create Lebanon’s Shi’a plurality, occupied Palestinians, or the Zaidis in Yemen.  But Iranian support for these communities means that any expansion in political participation in their countries empowers Tehran’s allies.

Stoking a New Middle Eastern “Cold War”

It is this aspect of Iranian strategy that most alarms Saudi Arabia, some other GCC states, and Israel.  Today, neither Saudi Arabia nor Israel truly represents most of those it governs.  Neither can endorse more participatory politics in the region; neither can endorse proliferation of regional states genuinely committed to foreign policy independence.  This also means that neither can exercise positive political influence to facilitate conflict resolution in contested regional arenas; on their own, Israel and Saudi Arabia can only make things worse.

This is why, when U.S. forces invaded Iraq and overthrew Saddam in 2003, Saudi Arabia played a critical role in funding and organizing Sunni insurgents there, in an ultimately unsuccessful effort to forestall a more representative political order which Iraq’s Shi’a majority would inevitably dominate.  This is also why Riyadh viewed the outbreak of the Arab Awakening in late 2010—which Tehran welcomed—as a mortal threat.  The Saudi response has been:

–to undermine Sunni movements, like the Muslim Brotherhood, prepared to compete for power in elections;

–to build up violent jihadi groups, including groups that have aligned with al-Qa’ida and coalesced into the Islamic State, as alternatives to the Brotherhood; and

–to co-opt popular demands for reform by coercively intervening—including through jihadi proxies—in Libya, Syria, and now Yemen, with disastrous humanitarian and political consequences.

As it has done these things, Riyadh has reframed political struggles around the region in starkly sectarian, anti-Iranian/anti-Shi’a terms.  This is especially striking vis-à-vis the Syrian conflict.  Saudi intervention in Syria ensured that jihadis — many non-Syrian—dominate opposition ranks, killing any potential Brotherhood role in leading anti-Assad forces.  It also turned what began as indigenous protests over particular grievances into a heavily militarized (and illegal) campaign against a UN member state’s recognized government—but with a popular base too small either to bring down that government or to negotiate a settlement with it.

In the process, Saudi Arabia has exploited Tehran’s support for Syria’s government to swing the balance of opinion in Sunni publics—which had increasingly seen the Islamic Republic as championing more participatory politics and resistance to U.S. and Israeli hegemony—against Iran.  The turn in Sunni attitudes gives Riyadh political cover to double down on supporting violent jihadis—as with Saudi backing for a new “Conflict Army,” organized around the al-Qa’ida-affiliated Jabhat an-Nusra, that recently captured a major Syrian city.

Deconstructing the Yemen War

These dynamics are fueling a new Saudi-Iranian/Sunni-Shi’a “Cold War” in the Middle East; Saudi military action has made Yemen an important battleground in this wider contest.  In Yemen, Tehran has followed its established strategic template of helping an unavoidable constituency with legitimate grievances—the Houthis and Ansar Allah, based in the country’s non-Sunni Zaidi community—organize to press for a meaningful share of power.  And the roots of Riyadh’s current campaign against the Houthis go back to the Arab Awakening’s early days.

Following the ouster of Tunisian’s Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in January 2011, peaceful mass protests calling for the removal of Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh broke out in Sana’a and other Yemeni cities.  Ansar Allah—which had been prosecuting a relatively successful revolt in north Yemen against Saleh’s rule before agreeing to a ceasefire in 2010—endorsed the demonstrations; it also joined other anti-Saleh groups in a so-called National Dialogue, set up to lay the foundations for a more representative and regionally federalized political order.

As pressure for change mounted, Saudi Arabia—determined to perpetuate the Zaidis’ marginalization—set out to thwart Yemenis’ manifest desire to replace Saleh’s autocracy with more representative and participatory political structures.  In particular, Riyadh worked to block implementation of the National Dialogue agenda by engineering Saleh’s replacement by his then-vice president, Abd Rabbuh Mansur Hadi.  To this end, the Saudis upped financial support to intensely sectarian Sunni salafi groups while undercutting the more moderate, Muslim Brotherhood-related Islah party—including by designating Islah as a terrorist group.  These steps ensured that no Sunni party was empowered to work with Ansar Allah and the Houthis to stand up a new, more representative political order; in the end, Hadi was the only candidate on the ballot for Yemen’s February 2012 presidential election.  Riyadh also worked to exclude Iran from the group of regional states ostensibly set up to help Yemen chart its political future.

Faced with these provocations, Ansar Allah and the Houthis renewed their military campaign against the central government in late 2011; their military gains accelerated over the next two and a half years.  Hadi’s provisional term expired in 2014, two years after his February 2012 election.  By that point, support for Hadi had crumbled—in no small part because of popular perceptions that he was a U.S. puppet collaborating with America’s ongoing “counter-terrorism” campaign in Yemen, including high-profile drone strikes killing large numbers of civilians.  In early 2015, Hadi fled to Saudi Arabia.  Left with no political options for imposing its preferences on Yemen, Riyadh launched military operations in March 2015, appealing not only to its Western backers for support but also to Sunni publics to back its leadership of a millennial holy war against infidel Shi’a.

Defusing Crises

Ansar Allah says it wants to realize the vision of the National Dialogue, but lacks sufficient support across Yemen to do this on its own.  Tehran, for its part, has long recognized that there ultimately has to be a political solution in Yemen, based on a negotiated settlement among the country’s disparate regional, tribal, and sectarian elements.  Since the start of the Saudi military campaign, the Islamic Republic has stressed the need for a negotiated resolution to the conflict—just as it has consistently held that a political settlement is the only way to end the conflict in Syria.  It is Riyadh that rejects negotiation—regarding Yemen or Syria—unless it can, in effect, dictate outcomes in advance.  In Yemen, as in Syria, Saudi actions are now enabling al-Qa’ida to make territorial gains.

Looking ahead, creating a genuinely more stable Middle East will require wider recognition of how dangerous the Saudi-stoked “Cold War” really is, and how much more damage it could do to an already severely stressed region.  It will also require deeper appreciation of Iran’s regional importance, and of the indispensability of its influence to putting the Middle East on a more positive long-term trajectory.


538 Responses to “What Saudi Arabia’s War in Yemen and Iran’s Regional Strategy Are Really About”

  1. Rd. says:

    “Indeed, in 1943, two years before World War II ended, an aging Mackinder published his last article, “The Round World and the Winning of the Peace,” in the influential U.S. journal Foreign Affairs.  In it, he reminded Americans aspiring to a “grand strategy” for an unprecedented version of planetary hegemony that even their “dream of a global air power” would not change geopolitical basics. “If the Soviet Union emerges from this war as conqueror of Germany,” he warned, “she must rank as the greatest land power on the globe,” controlling the “greatest natural fortress on earth.”

    If Mackinder supposed to be the ‘father’ of western geopolitics, then it should be no wonder the western hegemony (and their allies) is in such disarray. For even Mackinder appears not understanding his own notion of the geopolitical basics. That ‘basic’ is not so much about owning ( conquering) that little piece of land (Eurasia). It is about recognizing other people’s right to exist and self determination!

    One supposes the western dna is inherently diluted with their dark ages/witch hunts/inquisition PTSD that even the renaissance has yet to resolve. Perhaps the next renaissance, one would hope.

    The brits tried to own that lil’ piece of land for centuries only to become the despicable poodle (elites) they are now! And their cousin who were literally given the planet on a platter are fumbling it even worse! All of this, despite having developed the two-stroke engine! Amazing, but then again, these are the challenges related to emotional carbon units.


  2. M.Ali says:

    There seems to be in the news that 4 Saudi children passed away & a dozen other in hospital due to poisoning, which is claimed to be related to insect spraying. This is terrible news and ab absolute black mark on Iran.

    Possibility of foul play isn’t entirely impossible. This won’t be an internal activity due to the Saudis being Shia militants, but it won’t shock me if Israel had a role through groups like MEK. With Saudi & Israel just recently openly talking about their corporation, what better way for Saudi to seal the deal with the Saudis by creating a situation where their hate towards Iran is intensified.

    Of course, the Saudi royalty probably doesn’t care that much about Saudi shias going to Iran, so maybe that theory is worthless.

  3. BiBiJon says:

    Thanks RD.

    Looking at Mackinder’s map,

    it becomes obvious why Iran’s fate will continue to be hotly contested, why Iran is keen to have Chinese navy in the Persian Gulf, and why obscene amounts of armaments are being sold to PGCC countries, i.e. the “inner or marginal crescent.”

    Escobar’s chaos theory has a very orderly guiding principle. Through Chaos, US has regained its footing in the region as king maker; Just as soon as Iran is ready to be in the western camp, US can hand Syria and Yemen and Egypt to the Alawites and the Zaidis and the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Iran, on the other hand, has no choice but to win those battle grounds, just as Russia has to win the Ukranian battle, and the Chinese must control south china sea.

    Interesting times.

  4. Kooshy says:

    Rd –
    Yes it’s all about geography, my old professor at collage use to say that’s the first science men learns as soon as she or she starts looking around.

    The geography through out history has been both in favor and against Iran, ironically even with new land, sea and air routes still is.

    Geography is against us because our fertile lands and valley’s geographical location sawing together center Asia, caspian region south east Asia to far Western Asia with access to Indian Ocean invites and invited a lot of conquerers throughout history and still does including the U.S. But is also for us because with all its natural wealth it made us well to do and provide us enough wealth to invite best thinkers and innovators ( like current new world we were the melting pot of the old world) and get the best of the old world and to provide us with enough encouragement to protect this land with all we got at all costs , with and for our culture and believes.

  5. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    June 9, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    The Brits, as you say, like the Portuguese and the Spaniards, were from a poor country (as compared to France or Italy) and spread out to make a living.

    Their major gain was India the control and security of which necessitated a chain of posts and fortifications through Suez and Mediterranean as well as around the Cape of Good Hope.

    World War II dispossessed them of India and then all their holding were not worth the cost.

    Thus, the English, as pirates and exploiters, could very well be understood as any one else; the late Sultan Mahmud’s repeated invasions of India, the Ottomans, the Tatars, the Mongols, the Romans and many others.

    The actions of Americans are not caused by poverty – there is nothing that Americans could want from outside of their own country. They are not motivated – unlike the English – by money but by Power – in my opinion.

    Let us face the fact that there is nothing in Ukraine that would want in terms of natural resources or markets. Likewise, they gained nothing material in Iraq or in Afghanistan. And the list goes on and on and on.

  6. kooshy says:

    Gaining Resources or having control over resources or even limiting others to the planet’ resources takes the some effort, it’s always the first step in planning for waging a war to project power, if one makes a mistake and wages a war that can’t win is not that they were not interested in the resources or control of resources, is having these same resources, and control of resources, distribution and economy of these resources that makes a military might in size of US possible.

    It is a poor strategic understanding and even poorer planning if one believes the most capitalist country on history is not interested to have control on planet’ resources. Who cares which comes first, but only when having control of the resources and capital for the economy of these resources to make possible for having a mighty military to project power.

    US lost all her recent wars because the wars she started for control, access and limiting resources including non-commodities, like naval navigation became too long for US economy and her allies to continue, they simply ran out of financial and human resources, a very solid proof that technology alone is not going to win a war, war away and abroad drains the home resources fast. When one digs deep, the reasons for most wars ever since history started were for financial reasons, for control, capture, or recovery of resources from others, even some very serious religious wars were ultimately for economic reasons.

  7. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    As always, right on target…

    Supreme Leader’s Speech on 26th Demise Anniversary of Imam Khomeini (r.a.)


    “We people of Iran were an inferior people who were drowned in goalless-ness and despair. We were a dependent people. We were a people who had been kept backward on purpose. They used to impose both their thoughts and culture on our people. They used to take our economic resources and they made us sink in a quagmire of ugly habits. We used to be such a people, but Imam (r.a.) turned us into a motivated, hopeful and dynamic people who enjoyed great goals. Today, the people of Iran are dynamic, motivated and hopeful and they are moving towards great goals. Of course, we are far away from reaching our goals, but the important point is that we are moving towards them. The important point is that our people enjoy energy and the determination to make progress. The important point is that our youth believe that they can reach these goals, that they can completely achieve social justice, that they can bring progress and wealth to this country and that they can help us become an advanced and powerful country, as befits our historical identity. Today, this hope moves like a wave through our country and our youth are moving in this direction. We have saved ourselves from intoxication and drowsiness. This was done by our magnanimous Imam’s (r.a.) movement. It was done by that great man.

    If the people of Iran want to reach these goals and continue this path, they should gain a correct understanding of our magnanimous Imam’s (r.a.) path and principles and they should not allow the personality of Imam (r.a.) to be distorted. Distorting his personality is distorting his path and changing the straight path of the people of Iran. If we lose, forget about and – God forbid – deliberately sideline Imam’s (r.a.) path, the people of Iran will receive a slap across their faces. Everyone should know that the insatiable stomach of global arrogance has not ignored our country in any way. A large and wealthy country that is located in a sensitive global crossroads is very important to deceitful powers in the world. They have not abandoned their greed and they have not closed their eyes to our country.

    They will retreat only when you people of Iran gain such power and make such progress that they become completely despondent. It is here that the danger of distorting Imam’s (r.a.) personality becomes significant. If Imam’s (r.a.) personality is distorted and if it is introduced in a bad and wrong way, all these grave dangers will threaten the people of Iran. It is here that the danger of distorting his personality should capture the attention of the officials of the country, the intellectuals of the Revolution, Imam’s (r.a.) old students, those who are interested in his path and all youth, scholars and academic and seminary personalities. They should consider this as a warning. Well, this was an introduction to my statements.”

  8. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Concerning Iran’s “regional strategy”, SL says:

    “Wherever oppression exists, there are two sides: the oppressor and the oppressed. We advocate for the oppressed and we are opposed to the oppressor. This was the position that Imam (r.a.) adopted in an outspoken way and this was one of his main guidelines. Today too, the issue of Palestine is a major issue for us because of the same reason. Everyone should know this: the issue of Palestine will not be removed from the Islamic Republic’s agenda. The issue of Palestine is the arena of an obligatory and necessary Islamic jihad for us and no event will separate us from it. Some people may not be carrying out their duties on the scene of Palestine, but we distinguish between them and the people of Palestine. The people of Palestine and Palestinian mujahids continue to have our approval and support.”

  9. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    And to all those you jerk off to the posters of techno-oligarchs and to the lovers of Akbar Shahism, SL says:

    “The fourth point is about the domestic issues of the country. Imam (r.a.) was an ardent advocate of the weak and underprivileged classes. He used to reject economic inequality in a very serious and severe way. He used to reject aristocracy with bitterness. He was an advocate of social justice in the true sense of the word. Advocating underprivileged classes of society was perhaps one of the issues that he repeated the most in his speeches. This was one of his clear and definite guidelines. Everyone should try to uproot poverty. Everyone should try to liberate underprivileged classes from poverty. Everyone should help them as much as they can. On the other hand, he used to warn the officials of the country about living the life of a courtier. This has also been mentioned in the Holy Quran: “And you dwelt in the dwellings of men who wronged their own souls” [The Holy Quran, 14: 45]. He used to prevent everyone from living the life of a courtier.

    He used to stress that officials should have trust in the loyalty of underprivileged classes. He used to repeat many times that it is the residents of slums, the poor and underprivileged classes who fill the scenes despite their poverty. They do not even complain and they participate in dangerous arenas. On the contrary, those who were well-to-do would in fact complain more if there was a problem in a certain area. From the viewpoint of Imam (r.a.), the loyalty of middle and underprivileged classes was an outstanding phenomenon and he placed great emphasis on it. He also stressed the necessity of using public funds in the correct way and avoiding extravagance. This was another fundamental guideline that Imam (r.a.) had: the issue of administering social justice, advocating underprivileged classes, avoiding an aristocratic lifestyle and taking action in this direction.”

  10. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    On that note, we read this interesting interview with an oligarch in the oligarchs news agency owned by an oligarch:

    Billionaire Cartier Owner Sees Wealth Gap Fueling Social Unrest


    Johann Rupert, the South African who has made billions peddling Cartier jewelry and Chloe fashion, said tension between the rich and poor is set to escalate as robots and artificial intelligence fuel mass unemployment.

    “We cannot have 0.1 percent of 0.1 percent taking all the spoils,” said Rupert, who has a fortune worth $7.5 billion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. “It’s unfair and it is not sustainable.”

    The founder and chairman of Richemont, whose 20 brands also include Vacheron Constantin and Montblanc, said he expects advances in technology to lead to job losses after having read books on the subject recently. Conflicts between social classes will make selling luxury goods more tricky as the rich will want to conceal their wealth, Rupert said in a speech Monday at the Financial Times Business of Luxury Summit in Monaco.

    “How is society going to cope with structural unemployment and the envy, hatred and the social warfare?” he said. “We are destroying the middle classes at this stage and it will affect us. It’s unfair. So that’s what keeps me awake at night.”

    Rupert, a university dropout whose father made a fortune setting up Rembrandt Tobacco Corp. and selling it off, has in the past made other social critiques. Nicknamed ‘Rupert the Bear’ for his pessimistic views on the economy, the 65-year-old refers to himself as a “reformed prostitute,” having spent a decade as an investment banker. He said in 2008 that the collateral damage from the financial crisis was yet to come.

    “We’re in for a huge change in society,” he said Monday. “Get used to it. And be prepared.”

  11. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    1. Iran is going to support people’s movements in the countries of the region which is of course going to piss off the fat sheikhs and their friends in Israel and west. And this doesn’t change with changes in administrations in Iran. Everybody clear on that?

    2. The great fuss about Iran today is because of Iran’s geostrategic position and its enormous economic, scientific and technological growth in the last 30 years- NOT because Iran is desperate or “badly needs” western investment.

    The reality is that US/UK companies “badly need” a piece of the Iranian 2,2-5 trillion pie which they are loosing because of domestic political reasons st home. Clear?

    3. US will not “disengage”, “get out of bed”, whatever with Saudi because of dollar and the 3 geostrategic points mentioned by Amb. Freeman.

    This is what I call a death spiral of historic global proportions as the US is inextricably bound with Israel and Ale Saud- two of the vilest regimes in human history- because of its perceived national interests.

    3. It would behoove our hosts to reconsider the continued presence of old fart and 5th-rate Dawkins on the forum as it really becomes difficult to discuss the topics of the thread. As pointed by others many interesting contributors simply leave because of this problem. Don’t worry, I’m not going anywhere cause as a basiji I love hal-giri, right?

    4. Let us not forget that old fart is a self-admitted racist as evidenced by his comments on the inability of African children to learn math and bitch thinks that Ibn Sina and Goedel are overrated. Just reminding everyone (yes you Nasser-jan) with what fringe idiots we’re dealing with. Nasser-jan, no need to crawl up their asses.

  12. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 10, 2015 at 3:54 am

    On point 1. This, I believe, is a long-held philosophical view, and I agree with your assessment (if I understand you correctly).

    On point 2. I would suggest that the more salient points here are the consequences of what you have mentioned – that is, the mentioned resources has enabled the pursuit of independence (along economic, political, and scientific) axis. That is the “great fuss”.

    On point 3. As I stated very early on in the previous thread, the US has entangled herself (willingly) into a policy that she is unwilling and unable to unwind – no getting out of bed! If anything, the relationship will continue to become more entangled, more chaotic, and more incesteous.

  13. M. Ali says:

    Today’s headline:

    “Sales to Mahan Air Blacklisted by U.S. Hang Over Iran Talks”

    Okay, I guess this is what’s going to happen. US will block our assets again, and then 6 months down the line, one of the rewards for converting Azadi Square into McDonalds Square will giving back our own planes.

  14. pragmatic says:

    Reading Leveretts topic.

    – Mr. & Mrs. Leverett, did KSA get the permission from US to attack and invade Yemen, or they did it without US consent?

    – Why would Arab nations in Persian Gulf accept Iran’s hegemony? Even during late Shah ( everyone thought he was the police of the region), Iran was not having the whole hegemony to itself, I’m sure you have read the book Oil Kings, which is all documents. Other than Nixon and to some extent Henry Kissinger, the national security, majority of Congress and Senate were against Mohmmad Reza Shah. They backed KSA and the other Persian Gulf countries!!

    – My question is: has there been a superpower in ME since collapse of ottoman empire?

    – On the other hand wouldn’t it be a snare in front of KSA to expedite it’s separation (into 4 to 5 countries)?

    – On contrary to Iran, most of Arab countries are tribal based. Henceforth it is much easier to separate them. I do not really look at it as a proxy war, which Iran is involved in. Even if one presumes this, in long term Iran is helping US to pave its goals in the region.

    If my two cents on this topic is not right tell me otherwise.

  15. Karl.. says:

    June 10, 2015 at 7:24 am

    1. Of course puppets of the US make sure they can wage wars before starting them.
    2. While I dont read the whole article word by word, I dont know where you get that LEverertts supports “iran’s hegemony”, what hegemony by the way? Isnt the article arguing against such israeli/saudi led accusations?
    3. So if Iran help shias in the region, and if US dont like that, Iran should stop? Is that your argument?

  16. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Always nice to hear from you.

    On point 2 I agree all this means more independence- if you read SL’s speech I linked he has a few paragraphs about what it actually means for Iran to be “independent”.

    My point is more limited: Contrary to what is said by many inside and outside of Iran, the economy is not “bad”, it is in fact very “good”.

    I seriously question the statistics by the IMF, WB and Iranian admins that Iranian GDP PPP is 1-1.3 trillion. I suggest Iranian GDP PPP is closer to 2-2,5 trillion which would make Iran approx. 10th biggest economy in the world- quite remarkable given all the shit that’s been piled on it in the last 30 plus years.

    Add to that the fastest scientific growth in the world and a predominately young tech-savvy population and it becomes clear that US/UK corporations “badly need” access to Iran and Iranians, not Iran “badly needing” them.

    US and UK govts primary job is to represent corporate interests and that’s why you see the open conflict between corporate interests and the Israel lobby in the US on the issue of Iran.

    Yes there are some in the west who want to punish Iran for its independence and as Chomsky would say it being a “threat of an example” for others. I don’t deny that in any way. I believe this whole “fuss” however is much more about the understanding by corporate leaders in US and UK that they are going to miss out on one the biggest economic-business stories of the next century if they don’t get into Iran pronto.

    Gotta send “wall street in black-face”- Cornel West’s description of Obama- to “save Iran” (for US corporate interests).

    As Obama said, “this agreement has my name written all over it.”

    Remember the Clintons, Gore, Blair have done very well for themselves financially post-Presidency/PM as advisors and board members. Obama will be no different.

  17. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    On the Iranian side you have a bunch dalal “middle-men” hoping to cash in easy money overnight by being the pimps of western corporations in Iran.

    This method of “wealth generation” and “bach-e zerangi” has been the favored model of “wealth creation” in recent Iranian history.

    No need to engage in the difficult work of building a factory that makes high-quality products- particularly if we are genetically/cultural/historically/racially/IQ-ly so inferior to the master races and- “gods” in the words of 5th-rate Dawkins. I mean why even try, right?

    Well we did it and we are succeeding with God’s help- two-thumb bilakh! to all nay-sayers and self-hating a-holes.

  18. pragmatic says:


    No, I did not touch base on Iran should or shouldn’t help Shia in the region. But since you touched base on it, they ought to do it for two reasons: a) the Shia in Sunni countries being kicked around b) if they don’t soon they start a great disturbance around Iranian borders. This said, it’s a fact, Iran assisted the Shia in Lebanon during the Shah’s reign! Imam Mousa Sadr was there all the time. Thus, helping Shia in the region did not start after the revolution.

    All I wanted to say in previous post was this: What is US and Britain’s strategy for Saudi Arabia. Do they want to keep it as it is or they want to separate it! Insofar as it looks like they want to weaken it first. Imagine if Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and UAE were one country, would it be as easy to control and conduct them as today whereat they are different countries?

    As I said Iran is indirectly (assuming they are) assisting US to separate KSA. At the end of the day, it’s a win-win situation for both countries. US and other western powers they know Iran in the long term is a better partner in every aspect of politics and business you look at. Iran is the most populated and educated country in the region, with the most natural resources about 26+. Just look at the Iranians living in the US, they are the most educated (Masters and PHD) and the richest among all the minorities. Henceforth, it would be ideal for both countries to become friends ON a mutual beneficial terms.


  19. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 10, 2015 at 11:06 am

    Britain/UK has no strategy for Saudi Arabia.

    She has no strategy for anywhere else either – she follows US even when her own analysts know that US is courting disaster.

    “It is imperative for UK to be on the right side of US.”

    Just about the only strategy that UK has is the prevention of a hegemon in Europe – a constant for the past 600 years.

  20. Sammy says:

    @ All, please follow the utmost sensitive events in Syria carefully.


    DAMASCUS: It is now clear to everyone that the military infrastructure of Al-Qaeda/Nusra has been devastated in the Qalamoon and in the Lebanese area of ‘Arsaal. Rat communications depict an army without commanders, ammunition or medicine. In Faleeta, recently liberated in its entirety, the SAA is simply combing the area searching for the scrawny, undernourished and demoralized rats who once terrorized the area. During the last 48 hours alone, the terrorists lost 179 of their smelliest vermin….

    Also this VERY IMPORTANT analysis by Eric Draister


    Syria as Regional War

    And so, in June of 2015, with Syria continuing to struggle against a full-fledged international campaign to bring regime change, Iran has finally, and unmistakably stepped into the fray. Despite there still being debate as to exactly which forces Iran has deployed, and the specific numbers, it is clear that Tehran has judged that the Turkish intervention, coupled with the participation of its Saudi and Israeli rivals, has forced its hand, necessitating a direct intervention. The stakes could not be higher.

    With Iranian military forces operating mere miles from both the Turkish and Israeli borders, the potential for a direct military confrontation between the region’s powers is very high. Were such a scenario to play out, one could easily imagine a direct shooting war that would amount to a full-scale regional conflict. Israel and Turkey would both be immediately involved, with other regional actors lurking in the background. With Saudi Arabia still embroiled in its boondoggle in Yemen, its military participation might be hamstrung, but its indirect involvement would be unmistakable in the form of increased support for Nusra and other factions. Essentially, it is a conflagration scenario that would have global implications.

    Naturally, all parties want to avoid such a nightmare scenario as it is unlikely that any of them would be able to escape unscathed. However, there is perhaps a political motivation for Iranian involvement. Tehran may be calling the bluffs of Ankara, Riyadh, and Tel Aviv, demonstrating unequivocally that when Iranian president Rouhani stated last week that “The Iranian nation and government will remain at the side of the Syrian nation and government until the end of the road,” he meant it. Iran is showing the world that the mutual defense treaty it has with Syria is very much still in play, and that the protracted war against Damascus has not changed anything.

    Those interested in peace and stability certainly hope that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the other parties to this war are getting that message loud and clear.

    With tensions high over escalations in Ukraine and the South China Sea, the potential for global conflict has never been higher. Those who trade in doomsday prognostication are certainly busy these days. But perhaps it is Syria and the Middle East where the true global conflict is taking place.

  21. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Three charts that show Iceland’s economy recovered after it imprisoned bankers…


    “Iceland’s finance minister has announced a 39 per cent tax on investors looking to take their money overseas.

    The country has imposed the tax to prevent it hemorrhaging money as it loosens bank laws imposed six years ago, when Iceland made the shocking decision to let its banks go bust.

    Iceland also allowed bankers to be prosecuted as criminals – in contrast to the US and Europe, where banks were fined, but chief executives escaped punishment.”

  22. James Canning says:


    Britain would have accepted the independence of India even if the war had not taken place.

  23. BiBiJon says:

    RD, also Pat Buchanan has taken note:

    “The great work of Nixon and Reagan — to split China from Russia in the “Heartland” of Halford Mackinder’s “World Island,” then to make partners of both — has been undone. China and Russia are closer to each other and more antagonistic toward us than at any time since the Cold War.”

    Read more: http://www.cdispatch.com/opinions/article.asp?aid=42514#ixzz3cgA7cEUZ

  24. pragmatic says:


    Your reply is a bit raw! You are not giving Britain the credit due. Allow me to give you an example. After the second Iraq war what happened to Basra in Iraq? As you are aware (I’m assuming) it’s an oil town, who is taking the oil or let me rephrase myself which oil company is extracting the oil from there? Google it! Do you see as many terrorist acts there compare to other cities in Iraq?

    Countries like US, Britain and Germany are living in 21 century, however, countries in ME are still adopting the 18th century style! Also, who controls the financial of the world? Why Britain didn’t join the Europian Union? How strong is British Pound? Well in Iran is equal to 5100 toman compare to Euro which is 3700 toman. After emergence of China they lost their textile industry, what did they do? They replaced it with services such as banking and insurance. The service sector dominates the economy in Britain contributing around 78% of GDP; the financial services industry is particularly important and London is the world’s largest financial center (tied with New York). The British aerospace industry is the second- or third-largest national aerospace industry. The pharmaceutical industry plays an important role in the economy and the UK has the third-highest share of global pharmaceutical R&D. The automotive industry is also a major employer and exporter. The British economy is boosted by North Sea oil and gas production; its reserves were valued at an estimated £250 billion in 2007.

    Subsequently, I know they pulled out of their Empire because they could not afford the colonies, the cost of managing their realm was politically and financially too high. However, they still have political ties to many countries. They still hold to commonwealth countries. They have to do a lot with US politics too, believe it or not (my opinion).

    On the contrary to what you wrote, I conceive both the US and Britain need each other. In many areas their interests are convoluted.

    I still believe they are very cunning.

  25. James Canning says:


    In the decade before the US invasion of Iraq, the US apparently bought more Iraqi oil than any other country.

  26. pragmatic says:

    As far as Syria is concerned, in my humble opinion, it is the best for all interests there to let Bashar Asad govern a small province around Mideterainian strandline.

  27. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 10, 2015 at 10:01 am

    Thank you for the response. I agree with you — the economy is not bad — of course it could always be better, but the same can be said for any country. I believe the constructive exchange at the political, economic and scientific level should always be welcome — but — and this is an important but — this enhanced exchange must not come at the cost of “operational independence”. To this end, it is imperative for the system machinery in Iran to prepare and put in place serious detractions for the “get-rich-quick” middlemen — these folks have no interest but to line their pockets and they are the worst of the criminals in any country.

  28. Karl.. says:

    June 10, 2015 at 11:06 am

    I dont see why US wanted to cut up sunni states even more, they support the status quo to the fullest.

  29. pragmatic says:

    Karl.. says:
    June 10, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Because KSA is becoming too costly. One example: All the terrorists are from there or supported by KSA. Apparently the KSA elite are playing the double advocate with the US.

    I conceive smaller suni arab countries in the region is easier to control. Look at what happens in Qatar every ten or fifteen years, the son of the Amir (king) becomes the ruler by a soft Coup D’eta!! Thus the US can do the same in separated Saudi Arabia. As I alluded earlier it would be also better for Iran. A week Saudi Arabia won’t have that much of influence in OPEC. Also much of Saudi oil is in Shia area.

  30. Karl.. says:

    June 10, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    Well everything you say is true, its rational, but US isnt, thats the issue.

  31. pragmatic says:

    That we don’t know. It all depends on the world financial! When they decide to put back the economy of the world on track.

    In another post someone here said that the economy in Iran is not bad, actually is good! I didn’t respond because I didn’t want to waste my time arguing with biased people. Where I work our sales for this quarter was 350,000 million (farvardin, ordibehesht and khordad), compare to last years, which was 585,000 million. Lets look at RE. There are so many condo’s for sale, but no buyers. One can look at over 100 condos in a few days. The developers who have borrowed money from the banks or hard-money lenders, they have lowered their prices, no choice. Nonetheless, those that have not borrowed they are sitting and waiting for market to go back up. The supply is so much that many developers have started building shopping malls.

    The investors are uncertain in investing. They are all waiting to see if the agreement with 5+1 is going to be sealed and stamped.

  32. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 10, 2015 at 2:44 pm

    In Europe, they consider Iran to be the Enemy of West .

    Significantly, there also tens of millions of people hate Islam, Muslims, Arabs, etc.

    But their antipathy stops at Saudi Arabia.

    Depend upon it that they would not discard Saudi Arabia – they need her to buy their weapons.

    They need ISIS to destroy Mr. Assad’s government and harass Iran and Iraq.

    Have you seen any indication that EU specifically, is waging an economic war against ISIS?

    Until that happens, if ever, this is just a phony war to keep Iran and her allies busy.

  33. pragmatic says:


    In which countries in Europe?
    If there are tens of millions of people hate Islam as you say, have you ever tried to find out the root cause?
    If as you say they hate Muslims then how does their antipathy stops in doorsteps of Saudi Arabia? You again contradicted yourself!
    They can find other ways to not discard Saudi’s and make her spend her money in west.
    I don’t have any sympathy for Asad nor did I have any for his dad Hafez. How could ISIS harass Iran when they do not have any Jets?! Iranian air force easily can break them down.
    Why are you taking ISIS so seriously?
    If we assume your last sentence is valid, then you are accepting the US and her allies are stronger than Iran and her allies?

    I guess you have so much rage and anger towards the West….So much hate is derogatory for your health…. and utterly your tone is very imperious…

  34. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 10, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    I am telling you the way I see things.

    I am not accounting for the contradictions in the minds of Europeans.

    As far as Iran is concerned, she should count on the continued enmity of EU.

    Iran has to supply arms and aide to her allies; and as ISIS spreads, Iran has to be be vigilant on both her Eastern and Western borders.

    Already, Iran has been forced to watch her borders lest ISIS gets closer than 60 kilometers to them in the West.

    ISIS is a new state with an updated vision of Islamic Government – more similar to Talibans’.

    She will spread as the only Thinking part of Islamic Ummah are currently in Iran and in Turkey.

    [Did you know that a few hundred Tajiks had joined ISIS over the past year?]

    The rest of the world of Islam is pining for something like ISIS.

    Of course US and EU are stronger than Iran; their wars is draining Iranian resources and Iran cannot retaliate in a meaningful way.

  35. fyi says:

    I do not hate the West, I oppose their strategies in Ukraine, in the Persian Gulf, and in the Levant that flirt with nuclear war.

    I also object to them going around the world telling people how to live.

    Specifically EU, they are so uncomfortable with religious government that their discussions about Iran starts always with the analytically empty word “Theocracy”.

    Western states have a splendid legacy of wreckage over the last 20 years; in Yugoslavia, Serbia, East Timor, South Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Syria.

    And they are oblivious to the concerns of others when their presumed interests comes into play.

    They have made idols of Shoah, Liberty, Human Rights etc. but they had no qualms pushing tens of millions of people into poverty in Iran.

    Or doing the same thing to Iraqis in 1990s.

    I do not suffer hypocrites gladly or otherwise…

  36. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 10, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    On the bright side, the only bright side of course, I think I see in ISIS the only real threat the Saudis ever faced. Not Nasser’s silly Pan Arabism, not Iran’s Shia revolution, not that pretentious Stalin wannabe Saddam, not the stupid feeble precursor to ISIS that was Al Qaeda, not the Muslim Brotherhood (which btw though not immediately obvious, represents an even greater threat to Iran and Shias). ISIS unlike these other movements is just too Wahabi, too close to home, too like them, and too credible to their youth in its appeal to 6th century Khalifate glory to be effectively disavowed. The Shia Crescent must somehow find a way to turn them South.

  37. Nasser says:


    I couldn’t come up with a reply to Mr Smith’s previous post.

    You have written before that Western states have no “Tao”. Is that the source of their power? It is apparent of course that they are the ones least concerned with stability. I can’t imagine any other people getting so excited with the notions of “disruptive technologies” or “creative destruction.” But does that mean that Russians or Chinese or Koreans can never be as creative and inventive?

    I have read various sources that have claimed that within a decade the Chinese should be outspending the US in R&D and in their military budget.

    Do you assess that prognosis to be credible? And if so, what effect will that have?

  38. Nasser says:

    Dr. Friedman on the Middle East

    “The American strategy became an infinitely more complex variation of President Ronald Reagan’s policy in the 1980s: Allow the warring forces to war.”

    “For Iran, the danger of the Islamic State is that it would recreate an effective government in Baghdad that could threaten Iran again. Thus, Tehran has maintained support for the Iraqi Shiites and for the al Assad government, while trying to limit al Assad’s power.”

    “For Saudi Arabia, which has aligned with Sunni radical forces in the past, the Islamic State represents an existential threat. Its call for a transnational Islamic movement has the potential to resonate with Saudis from the Wahhabi tradition. The Saudis, along with some other Gulf Cooperation Council members and Jordan, are afraid of Islamic State transnationalism but also of Shiite power in Iraq and Syria. Riyadh needs to contain the Islamic State without conceding the ground to the Shiites.”


  39. Nasser says:

    Mr Einhorn says Just surrender already, this is getting tiresome


  40. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 10, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    If you ask me what Islamic Government stand for, I would say it should be a republican form of government (for both historical and theoretical reasons) that allows Muslims to participate in the political life of their state and which, in addition to republicanism, embodies in its constitution and laws the ideals and aspirations of Islam.

    If you ask very many people in Iran, they would say that Islamic Government is the one that “executes the Rulings of Islam” – a completely legalistic and rigid outlook.

    And this is where the late Mr. Khomeini went against the grain of the Iranian people, the Shia & Sunni Tradition, and overthrew a 1000 years of Un-Thinking.

    Outside of Iran the definition of Islamic Government as the “Sharia State” is the only understanding among Sunni Muslims. There is no possibility of a rebuttal to that since the Sunnis will not accept the doctrines of the Shia – such as Ijtihad, the Philosophy of the late Mullah Sadra etc.

    And even in Iran, there are many who admired Taliban and I suppose secretly admire ISIS and slavery and all of that.

    I was hoping that AKP (Ikhwan) would chart/could chart a new direction for Sunni Muslims – but I was disappointed. In Turkey, while I applauded AKP removing all those stupid and denigrating restrictions on veiled women – in practice women with scarves and manteaux – it started denying licenses to non-religious schools – trying to force unveiled students to take on veil to receive an education.

    Worse still, by orders of magnitude, was AKP government destroying the livelihoods of millions of Muslim in Syria and in Iraq in order to damage Iran. I ask anyone to tell me what was Islamic in that?

    And that pathetic Mr. Mursi who did not even stay in Tehran for lunch during the Non-Aligned Movement meeting – what was Islamic about him? So he prayed 5 times a day, likely so do many a Muslim criminal too.

    At least, in Turkey, we see a balance of social power of different groups that hopefully will improve and develop an Islamic form of governance. But such an evolution will not be based and could not be based on the current ideas of AKP (Ikhwan) or Gulenists or all those misguided Kemalists, Social-Democracts, and Kurdish ethnic parties – in my opinion.

    And Turkish model cannot be replicated to other Sunni states since the Kemalist legacy does not exist outside of Turkey.

    In time, I hope, Iranians can learn a few things from Turks and Turks from Iranians.

  41. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 10, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    No, the source of their power is in using the unflinching light of reason on the World and acting upon what they discover.

    Their civilization started from the wreck of the Classical World of Ancient Greece and Rome – it did not begin from a stable seed or the idea of stability. Neither the barbarians in the North nor the Church were interested in Harmony and when Islam emerged, its emergence again destabilized that civilization and pushed the idea of Harmony and Stability out of the immediate concerns of its Thinkers and populations.

    The past has had no attraction for the Western Civilization since at least the last 300 years. I think that is because the ideas of Progress and Perfectibility of Man gained currency during that period.

    And those ideas gained currency, in my opinion, because the success of the application of empirical sciences and observation to the betterment of their material and spiritual conditions – starting with the Wind Mill and Water Mill that Muslims willfully decided not to copy during the Middle Ages.

    Let us accept the fact that when faced with excruciating dental pain, one does not seek an expert in Tibetan medicine or if one’s child as abdominal pain requiring surgery, one does not seek a disciple of the late Ibn Sina.

    In regards to disruption etc., because of the asymmetry of power between NATO states (population 1 billion – roughly, GDP $ 25 trillion) they estimate that they can wreck other polities without consequence. I would compare it to pouring water onto an ants nest by a child who the enjoys watching them going hither and thither and from time to time, will smash one here and one there.

    Only when the ants start invading his house – like the current situation with the destruction of Libya whereby all these people from Africa and the Middle East are trying to get into EU – only then they start reconsidering their approach.

    For now, US and EU and Turkey are estimating that ISIS is going to keep the Shia busy. US, however, does not want ISIS to be too strong, so a tactical truce is being used to work with Iran to contain ISIS but not to destroy it.

    But given the choice, they rather see ISIS destroy Assad and Iraq than see a stable Shia Crescent – in my opinion. I think they are blind – perhaps out of hatred for Iran or love of Israel – to the existential threat posed by ISIS to Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

    Or may be they are just willing to risk it – strategic settlement with Iran not being on the agenda.

    I do not know and I am guessing here.

    In regards to China, once their per capita reaches 1/4 of Korea’s, they could be outspending US on weapons procurements for certain as they do not have huge legacy costs of caring for the PLA Veterans or any dead or wounded.

    I think all of these machinations – specially by Muslim states – is truly regrettable. After what happened to Afghanistan due to rivalry of super powers, one would have expected Muslims and Muslims leaders would have learnt not to do.

    They have not – they are still being easily swayed and manipulated by their betters in US and EU, all the while congratulating themselves how smart or cunning they have been in tricking the Faranji.

    But at all times, Muslims are doing the dying and their countries and cities are being destroyed.

  42. ordinary says:

    Saudi is a pivotal state in the middle east state system, the west will continue supporting the system they put in place..

    Through OPEC Iran has a participation with Arab countries that can’t be manipulated by politics of the day. Iran is the founder of OPEC and OPEC is a major world player – for its size.

    After ending Nuclear negotiations in success, the choke will be eased just a tad for good will, Iran should use the opportunity in a few ways :
    1 – divert excess revenue from any oil and gas to: help the youth for example by funding university research, subsidize farmers in agriculture and animal farming, help create jobs, and do a clean air act.
    2 – negotiate with OPEC member states and neighbors to reduce Iran’s water problems and to promote commerce and free trades, there is plenty in the middle east.
    3 – maintain policy of “no west and no east” (though it should be members of both west and east organizations).
    4 – keep forces separate as they are: military, ircg, police and basig and emphasis importance of Velayat. Iran is too small to maintain independence without internal checks and balances. Every opportunity will be used to weaken Iran; key sanctions are unlikely to be removed in foreseeable future in the aim to make Iran capitulates and implodes – so it is the Iranian doing.
    5 – Iran should assist by all possible ways those Iranians that are inspired by the West to leave Iran and experience west in the West, also to let them return.

    I think the June agreement is crucial: it will free Iran a tad to operate in the international community. I remain optimistic that Rohani / Zarif / administration will prove to be the right administration for this phase of the struggle, and Imam is indeed smart and will keep the bag together.

    At times I wonder about the following:
    A – As Iran’s prosperity increases and the poor pure into middleclass, will it get more difficult to run an Islamic order. Wealthy is in envy of the west to reap fruit of its wealth, the young wants to experience and sees the life too young and exciting to appeal to Islam. As most rich and middle class goes to Shomal rather than attending Imam’s speech. How an Iran in path of progress will keep Islam (God is looking, how will Iran keep from drifting away with prosperity?

    B – While the US is what is said to be in the Levertt’s posting, Iran is lucky dealing with US as a superpower adversary (contrast with UK, Russia, France, Italy, and all others), at least there is backbone based on ethics. Having said that, I think it is improbable that the US will ever come to terms with an Iran running with Shia ideology – unless it demonstrates a solution for C.

    C – In a prosperous Islamic Iran, I perceive two groups of Iranians, the Moslims (including devout people of all faiths) in one side versus the hypocrites + influenced or secular young + seculars in the other side. I see people switching camps, at any age, because of: personal experience, learning, understanding, giving up, etc – a healthy picture. However I also see the second camp will always see Islamic government hampering their lifestyle and inspirations (hence my suggestion of #5 above), any other ideas?

  43. fyi says:


    “Riyadh needs to contain the Islamic State without conceding the ground to the Shiites”.

    Not going to happen.

    If ISIS captures Mecca and Medina then she would become invincible and will turn on Israel.

    At that time and only at that time you will see a real effort in destroying it.

  44. fyi says:

    ordinary says:

    June 10, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    Please Sir, when will you stop for the sake of God and Prophets to judge others – “… versus the hypocrites + influenced or secular young + seculars in the other side….”

    Can you not accept that they are Muslims but different from you?

    When will you stop arrogating to yourself the Powers of God in judging who is and is not a Muslim?

    When will you stop trying to harm or otherwise ruin other people’s lives?

    When are you going to repent damaging young people – they are young only once?

  45. ordinary says:


    I defined 2 groups to make a point. If you read carefully I don’t harm a hypocrite + (or) secular or etc, they switch camps just as a devout can become a hypocrite or a secular.

    Off course they are all Moslims by birth certificate, and they each have their effects and place in the society.

    I do not judge a person, that is God’s job. I mealy compare the state of beings with respect to definition of a moslim as given in Quran at a given age. People change as they learn. Even God judges after life ends.

    It is best if you answer the questions I asked, that is if you believe in Islamic Republic and not a proponent of regime change.

    I add that: I believe people will try what they like regardless of what we say here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying. Islam’s path is always open. It is the quality (in heart) and not the quantity (in years) that counts.

    Sorry for my typos in defining A, I repeat it here:

    A – As Iran’s prosperity increases and the poor pure into middleclass, will it get more difficult to run an Islamic order. Wealthy will be in envy of the west to taste fruit of its wealth the way a westerner tastes it, a young wants to experience life on all possible ways, people will postpone Islam to older age (more go Shomal rather than paying attention to Imam’s day or speech). How an Iran in path of progress will keep Islam (God is looking), how will Iran keep from drifting away with prosperity and finally loosing its independence in intoxication?

  46. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 9, 2015 at 10:03 am

    I am agreed. But Iran must do much better. It is a state with access to enormous natural resources as well as human resources. Functioning at the level of a thug guerrilla force is not acceptable in my opinion: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/syria-rebels-playstation-tank-sham-ii-video_n_2272930.html

    fyi says:
    June 9, 2015 at 9:53 am

    Mr Afarid’s case had an important message. Among all those who were accused of financial crimes in Iran, he was the only one who was an industrial producer. The rest were dalals. He was hanged. Dalals lived to enjoy their harems. When state hangs a producer and has a history of prosecuting industrialists such as Haji Barkhordar among thousand others, then I guess it is hypocritical for such a state to aspire for increase in production. According to Central Bank of Iran, the industrial growth rate of Iran is negative. And it is not a surprise why.

    fyi says:
    June 9, 2015 at 9:48 am

    That is exactly what is needed. The innovation and all. As you know I am a proponent of it. But some points:

    * More important than maskan mehr, and I think the most important innovation of Dr Ahmadinejad was his (incomplete and a bit disorganized) attempt to make Iran’s internal market real by removing subsidies. The most important impediment in Iran’s internal market is that no one, not even the most experienced accountants and economists know the cost and the value of products. Since subsidies on almost everything, have distorted the market so much that nothing can be realistically priced.

    * In my opinion such articles are not bad. Iran’s press is not like American or European press. Iran does not have investigative or revealing press. Without such articles, we would never even know what is going on. And in a nation that is suffering from non-transparency for the past several thousand years, that won’t bode well.

    * Dr Ahmadinejad’s personal key shortcoming was his trust in a particular flavor of people, instead of building systems that can be trusted. His people (or for that matter any people) should not have been trusted absolutely. It is systems that can be designed to be trustworthy. The other shortcoming of his is related to non-existence of a free and vibrant press as well as vibrant political party structures that can translate, defend and critic the policies of the state for mass of the people, debate on them and even form new policies. Dr Ahmadinejad could have been a successful French president but not Iran’s since such policy and administrative tools do not exist in Iran. Besides, in Iranian psyche things of all nature quickly become personal (even in sciences let alone politics). Both Dr Ahmadinejad and his opponents behave and function at this personal level. The arrest of Dr Ahmadinejad’s aides and officials is because of that and can happen because Iran’s judiciary is not fair, free and just (judiciary is itself functioning at a personal level, that is the accused is often seen by the judiciary to have a personal enmity with “justice”). Weird but true.

    fyi says:
    June 9, 2015 at 9:40 am

    I do. I am aware of that. Thanks for your reminder.

    But let’s not forget that, regardless of how much 800 billion dollars equals to in 1970’s dollars, the point I am making is of critical importance. That this money should have been invested to create and facilitate production capacity and not used up for subsidizing imports through various means such as artificially propping up toman. You would really be surprised to know how important and extremely central the value of dollar is in Iranian psyche. Even now, the Iranians are cheering for the negotiations because they expect dollar to become 1000 toman. The real value of dollar though is about ten times that in toman.

    I am afraid the frozen 120 billion dollars of Iran if released will be spent to prop up toman and be wasted like those 800 billion dollars. Actually it is already happening. The few tens of billions that Rouhani begged from West, has already been used up to “stabilize” toman instead of being spent on facilitating production. That is why it is IMPORTANT that the issue of 800 billion dollars be raised up again and again. I have to remind here that the Iranian system is not transparent and no free and fair audits happen. Without political pressure of masses, the governments of now and future will not change course and can not be held accountable. One wishes it was otherwise but the tools do not exist (this point on its own is an important reason of instability in third world countries).

    Mr Fyi, please consider the central fact here that whether be it Ahmadinejad or Khatami or Shah or the public of Iran, there exists a strong belief in them, that Iran is infinitely rich and such squandering of wealth whether of natural resources or of human resources is inconsequential to outcomes of Iran in future. I believe otherwise.

  47. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 10, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    The most wasted resource in Iran are the competent people who can do things.

  48. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 10, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    Yes. I would generalize it on cosmological scale as the most wasted resource being the human children born into unthinking societies where their mere function becomes biological continuity of species.

  49. fyi says:

    ordinary says:

    June 10, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Pray tell us all what the definition of Muslim is in the Quran – I would like to know.

    And pray tell me also if the late Abu Sofian was a Muslim or not?

    And be careful here since the Prophet clearly accepted him as a Muslim.

    Once you have got all your definitions in a book, then go around Iran seeking to judge their “being” – whether they are in conformance to your definitions of a Muslim.

    And while at it, edify all of us here as to the means and methods that you use to look into the “state of being of others” to know if they are Muslim or not.

    While you are doing so, making life miserable for yourself and others, your enemies are laughing at you and getting more prepared to smash you, your family, and your country.

    Yes, I know, You have Eternity.

  50. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 10, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    They have nothing better to do with their lives. Much like Isis. In fact the ideological functions here are similar. Isis operates on the same frequency and wavelength: he is Muslim, she is not Muslim and this is Islam and that is not Islam.

    They see no need to develop laparoscopic surgical techniques for a 2 year old child dying of intussusception. More important to them is to identify whether the child is going to adopt which “state of being (hypocrisy, secular, shia isis)” and whether to kill him now or later after having rapedd his mommy.

    You are wasting your time with him. He will not learn. As Isis Sunnis will not.

  51. Amir says:

    @ ordinary
    I was thinking an advocate of Abu-sofyan is bound to follow his son, Mo’aviya! Just as Moa’viya ibn Abu-sofyan sat in the prophet’s صلی الله علیه و آله و سلم place and recited Hadith from him and explained his true intentions, some people are today telling us what Emam (note that I’m not comparing Emam Khomeini to prophet صلی الله علیه و آله) really meant.

  52. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 10, 2015 at 6:16 pm

    I was glad for the Turks after seeing their most recent elections. I don’t know if it will be of much consequence ultimately, but still, a lot of my anger has dissipated. I sincerely wish them well.

    I think though I disagree with your earlier prognosis that Iran somehow is a more advanced polity than Turkey.

  53. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 10, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    My question was poorly framed but I still benefited from your reply. Once again many many thanks for sharing your knowledge and educating us.

  54. ordinary says:


    You evaded my questions but why argue the irrelevant? You could have stayed silent! Why smear the questions?

    I take it that you don’t want or you can’t discuss the subject, as it touches central points like: 1 – do I believe in God and if so what are my obligations. 2 – How to preserve a country from harm of hypocrites like Abu Sofian that may accept God at a later age (does it matter if I think Abu Sofian was a Moslim or he made a hypocritical declaration at the end of his rope?, it is between him and God, as for the knowing the history if I come across it in books of Al Kafi as words of Mohammad, I’ll accept it, again irrelevant).

    You know what you describe will not work in the framework of the Islamic Republic, not because it is wrong, but because you don’t want to fit it – perhaps my mistake, how do we go about voicing how the billions of dollars must be spent? How do we empower the campaign of the like of Ahmadinejad such that they fit as a president for Iran and not France?

    You’re mistaken to think my life is made miserable in fact it is so vibrant it is unimaginable. I look at life as an opportunity, not a day goes by in despair, whereas it seems the life is lost to those while they choose to be deft and blind to the source of life.

  55. ordinary says:


    Moa’viya ibn Abu-sofyan destroyed Hadith where he found it and killed men who recited them, only when his support was diminishing and people coming to the Ahle Bayt, he hired religious boys willing to invent new hadith agreeable to him. There is much research and books in http://www.al-islam.org for example by Professor Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi who is a historian and a x sunnie brother.

  56. Pirouz says:

    Col. Bacevich was part of a panel discussion at NEWSHOUR for the one year anniversary of ISIL taking Mosul. His views on working with Iran to defeat ISIL caused a stir among the former CIA director and former Under Secretary of War:


  57. Amir says:


  58. Sammy says:




    Washington D.C.) Syrian Perspective has learned that the chief of the Saudi Air Force, One Star “General” Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Al-Sha’laan, has succumbed to the AIDS virus after years of struggle to keep the virulent disease a family secret. Al-Sha’laan apparently fell asleep during a meeting with outgoing American Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Martin Dempsey, who was reportedly regaling the Saudi with long stories about his golf outings. The Saudi general was spirited to the the Walter Reade Hospital after efforts to awaken him failed. After General Dempsey poured a carafe of iced gin martinis on his head and kicked him repeatedly in the groin, everyone agreed he should be taken for emergency treatment. When his military tunic was removed, hundreds of black scars were detected and the staff was heard to joke that the general had a “lot of melanin”. But Kaposi’s Sarcoma was the eventual diagnosis.

    General Al-Sha’laan is seen here in a photograph taken at a K-Mart booth in Crystal City near Washington. General Al-Sha’laan had a morbid fear of flying and always traveled by ship or train, hence his two weeks aboard the Italian luxury cruise ship the “Leonardo Da Vinci” in order to attend the meeting at the Pentagon.

    General Al-Sha’laan had a case of AIDS so advanced and complex the staff at Walter Reade could not treat him. Pathology of his blood indicated a mystifying cellular abnormality qualifying the general as essentially a “green monkey”. Veterinarians from the Georgetown University School of Animal Sciences were brought in for consultation and their prognosis was unanimous: “The general is a Saudi ape with incurable HIV.”

    Saudi Arabia has the highest rate of AIDS in the Arab World. Child molesting, homosexuality, pederasty, pedophilia and sodomy are given as the major reasons for its prevalence in Saudi Arabia. One German epidemiologist, Herr Doktor Baldur Hasenpfeffer, opined that Saudi Arabia’s population should not even exist since almost all the males prefer other males or little boys. And so, we come to General Al-Sha’laan.

    Saudi Arabia is also the cradle of MERS or Middle East Respiratory Syndrome which is now bedeviling South Korea. All patients with that condition traveled to the Arabian Peninsula and returned with the often fatal disease.

    General Al-Sha’laan is survived by his wife “Ahmad Al-Sudayri”, and some adopted Eastern European male orphans aged 6 to 11 years.

  59. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 11, 2015 at 12:06 am

    I think Iranians are more advanced in 3 aspects:

    1- They are fundamentally addressing the relationship of Islam, Sharia, Governance, and Modernity. They are there in the intellectual and practical trenches grappling with the role of Islam in society, in politics, in culture in a rationalistic manner – Akhbari Ulema having been sent to Exile (so to speak).

    No other Muslim polity is trying to solve the and handle the relationship between Islam and Modernity intellectually. Mind you, there will never be a resolution, just like the argument about the primacy of Faith or Reason will never terminate. The important thing is to be aware of the tension and to contemplate that in the light of human reason.

    2- The Iranian people and government is the most self-reliant and autarkical autonomous state among Muslims. This is the significance of the Islamic Republic experiment; restoring strategic autonomy to a Iran after so many centuries.

    3- The development of industry in Iran has been forced to rely on internal resources – much more so than any other Muslim country. That is, Iranians have been forced to think for themselves and to develop what they can and invent for themselves. Silicon valley they are not but they have now mastered certain technologies and procedures and organizational structures.

    I think Turkey is superior to Iran in 3 aspects:

    1- The individual liberty in Turkey far exceeds that of Iran. Also, individual citizen rights are respected in Turkey more than in Iran – just look at the Alawites in Turkey and compare their treatment with those of the Bah’ai in Iran.

    2- I think the Turkish political system which, at one time – like Iran today or Mexico of yesterday – was a restricted representative system has now been opened up to other voices and visions (شاورهم فی الامر).

    3- The press in Turkey is much freer than in Iran and thus acts more like the watch dog in uncovering official maleficence than in Iran.

    Some of these achievements in Turkey, in my opinion, has had to do with the pressure from EU states and their requirements for Turkey someday joining EU and were not indigenous or autarkic (خود جوش). But as a Turkish citizen enjoying these freedoms you do not care how you got them as long as they are in an enduring and lasting manner.

    Also, in Turkey there are perhaps 10 million Alawites (perhaps more – some say 17 million). Their religion is not monotheistic as far as I know – they have a Trinity like the Christians – but they fear Islam and Islamic Governance and they will support Kemalist secularism to the hilt. Specially after what happened to Yazidis in Iraq.

  60. fyi says:

    ordinary says:

    June 11, 2015 at 12:32 am

    I decline to answer your unproductive questions.

    You also have declined to share with us what the definition of a Muslim is according to the Quran.

    Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what the Framework of Islamic Republic is.

  61. ordinary says:



  62. fyi says:

    Pirouz says:

    June 11, 2015 at 3:31 am

    In Europe, the situation is even worse.

    When I shared this post with a European friend, after reading it, he immediately suspected the Leveretts to have been paid by Iran to write it.

    In Europe, Iran is considered the enemy of West and they have, in my opinion, thoroughly internalized their own propaganda against Iran – lies and everything else.

    And when someone makes a coherent presentation of the Iranian government policies that largely contradicts their own lies; they accuse that person as to be an agent of Iran.

    That is under the best circumstance; i.e. the audience actually reading the text and trying to understand it.

    Normally, they just dismiss writings such as those by the Leveretts – or my own presentations – as being “rabidly anti-West” etc.

    I think while there is some residual understanding of Iran still in UK and France and Italy, nowhere else in Europe there is any understanding of Iran, her polity, her culture and her government.

    EU states are completely dependent on US – both at the level of popular understanding and at the intelligence level.

  63. Karl.. says:

    June 11, 2015 at 11:13 am


    Europeans may be the most brainwashed people on earth, if you try to raise like you said, what Leveretts are saying, its impossible, then you become this “idiot” “defending” Iran.
    Its the same with trying to say something different about Russia, then you become this “paid russian troll”.

    I dont know what it is, brainwashing mixed with politically correctness?

    Check this new article btw, touch exactly on this:
    The crusade to ban Russia policy critics

  64. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    June 11, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Thanks Karl.

    For your amusement, take a look at this Web Log by Dr. von Creveld:


    [In 2006, in an interview with a Dutch newspaper, he was asked whom he trusted (earlier having indicated as an Israeli he did not trust this or that EU country).]

    Extraordinary blog and much of it perceptive: unthinkable in the UK. He would get sued, hounded out of academia, and would have lost his job already – without a doubt.

    The Oxford don – a Nobel Laureate – who made ‘sexist’ comments a day or so ago has had to apologize, grovel and step down from the academic body he chaired. Instant retribution. Please see below:

    http: //www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33090022

  65. James Canning says:


    I very strongly doubt that most educated people in the EU see Iran as “the enemy of the West”. In fact, I do not see how that term even has meaning.

  66. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    June 11, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    You have been living in San Francisco for far too long.

  67. Karl.. says:


    Crevald is certainly one of a kind.

    Video: Crevald goes crazy on RT

  68. kooshy says:

    Laughing Nut’ son on the appeal court was found guilty of three charges, stealing public property, bribery and corruption, and security (trying to unseat legally elected administration of President Ahmadinejad) he is going to jail for 10 years which is 5 years more than president Ahmadinejad’s VP which are on opposing camp to the camp of laughing nut. May be for sake of unity they should become cellmates.

    Thank you Iran’judicial authorities

  69. pragmatic says:

    James Canning says:
    June 11, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    I very strongly doubt that most educated people in the EU see Iran as “the enemy of the West”. In fact, I do not see how that term even has meaning.

    I agree with JC.

  70. pragmatic says:

    In regards to Mehdi Hashemi, it ain’t over till the fat lady sings!

    Apparently Ayatollah is not that worried.


  71. pragmatic says:

    اگردوستان منتقد هاشمی تخریب مدام ایشان را به هربهانه تکلیف شرعی وتعطیل ناپذیر خود می دانند بهتراست به فکرمحمل دیگری برای تضعیف وتخریب هاشمی باشند.

  72. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Evin’s not too far from Jamaran…don’t forget the kompot…

  73. Kooshy says:

    Does Azad U have a campus in Evin?
    If not maybe laughing nut Dady should open one and make him consultant in charge of collage bitolmal.

  74. nahid says:

    baba, mikhad PHD ro to avin begireh

  75. Kooshy says:

    This was the appeal court, holding the lower court’ decision with a minimum of 10 years jail sentence.
    I don’t know, it all sounds like the fat lady’ voice is not easily heard by some of us.
    May be if she had made other sounds from other parts of the body it would have been more noticed to some ears.

  76. fyi says:

    nahid says:

    June 11, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    Perhaps he would be telling the other inmates about the Oxford Branch of Azad University; and how he was discussing the fate of the Universe with Dr. Hawking.

  77. Jay says:

    Ex-intel officials: Pentagon report proves US complicity in ISIS

    The US Army-funded RAND report advocated a range of policy scenarios for the Middle East, including a “divide and rule” strategy to play off Sunni and Shi’a factions against each other, which Ellsberg describes as “standard imperial policy” for the US.

    The RAND report even confirmed (p. 113) that its “divide and rule” strategy was already being executed in Iraq at the time:

    “Today in Iraq such a strategy is being used a tactical level, as the United States now forms temporary alliances with nationalist insurgent groups that it had been fighting for four years… providing carrots in the form of weapons and cash. In the past, these nationalists have cooperated with al-Qaeda against US forces.”

    You can read the full investigative report: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/ex-intel-officials-pentagon-report-proves-us-complicity-in-isis-fabef96e20da

  78. Amir says:

    pragmatic says:
    June 11, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    محلمل رو خوب اومدین استاد!ـ
    Sadly, Hashemi keeps on giving us pretexts right and left; tomorrow he’ll say something about Islam, or Emam or Revolution or whatever. I’m just saying.

  79. Amir says:

    In experimental research, it’s a common experience, to try to get to point B from point A, and eventually wind up in point C. Many of you follow the posts here to get a better understanding of geopolitical developments in the world, and I’m writing this post (which would seem irrelevant to the current topic, but is essential to this debate) with one single individual in mind, but maybe some other people would read it, and make the most of it; there is no such thing as an accident.

    Excerpts from Emam Khomeni’s will and testament:
    و اینجانب در اینجا یک وصیت به اشخاصی که به انگیزه مختلف با جمهوری اسلامی مخالفت می‌کنند و به جوانان، چه دختران و چه پسرانی که مورد بهره‌برداری منافقان و منحرفان فرصت‌طلب و سودجو واقع شده‌اند می‌نمایم، که بی طرفانه و با فکر آزاد به قضاوت بنشینید و تبلیغات آنان که می‌خواهند جمهوری اسلامی ساقط شود و کیفیت عمل آنان و رفتارشان با توده‌های محروم و گروهها و دولتهایی که از آنان پشتیبانی کرده و می‌کنند و گروهها و اشخاصی که در داخل به آنان پیوسته و از آنان پشتیبانی می کنند و اخلاق و رفتارشان در بین خود و هوادارانشان و تغییر موضعهایشان در پیشامدهای مختلف را، با دقت و بدون هوای نفس بررسی کنید، و مطالعه کنید حالات آنان که در این جمهوری اسلامی به دست منافقان و منحرفان شهید شدند، و ارزیابی کنید بین آنان و دشمنانشان؛ نوارهای این شهیدان تا حدی در دست و نوارهای مخالفان شاید در دست شماها باشد، ببینید کدام دسته طرفدار محرومان و مظلومان جامعه هستند.

    برادران! شما این اوراق را قبل از مرگ من نمی‌خوانید. ممکن است پس از من بخوانید در آن وقت من نزد شما نیستم که بخواهم به نفع خود و جلب نظرتان برای کسب مقام و قدرتی با قلبهای جوان شما بازی کنم. من برای آنکه شما جوانان شایسته‌ای هستید علاقه دارم که جوانی خود را در راه خداوند و اسلام عزیز و جمهوری اسلامی صرف کنید تا سعادت هر دو جهان را دریابید. و از خداوند غفور می‌خواهم که شما را به راه مستقیم انسانیت هدایت کند و از گذشته ما و شما با رحمت واسعه خود بگذرد. شماها نیز در خلوتها از خداوند همین را بخواهید، که او هادی و رحمان است.

    و بدانید که نژاد آریا و عرب از نژاد اروپا و امریکا و شوروی کم ندارد و اگر خودی خود را بیابد و یأس را از خود دور کند و چشمداشت به غیر خود نداشته باشد، در درازمدت قدرت همه کار و ساختن همه چیز را دارد. و آنچه انسانهای شبیه به اینان به آن رسیده‌اند شما هم خواهید رسید به شرط اتکال به خداوند تعالی و اتکا به نفس، و قطع وابستگی به دیگران و تحمل سختیها برای رسیدن به زندگی شرافتمندانه و خارج شدن از تحت سلطه اجانب.

    و بر دولتها و دست اندرکاران است چه در نسل حاضر و چه در نسلهای آینده که از متخصصین خود قدردانی کنند و آنان را با کمکهای مادی و معنوی تشویق به کار نمایند و از ورود کالاهای مصرف‌ساز و خانه برانداز جلوگیری نمایند و به آنچه دارند بسازند تا خود همه چیز بسازند.

    و ازجوانان، دختران و پسران، می‌خواهم که استقلال و آزادی و ارزشهای انسانی را، ولو با تحمل زحمت و رنج، فدای تجملات و عشرتها و بی بندوباریها و حضور در مراکز فحشا که از طرف غرب و عمال بی‌وطن به شما عرضه می‌شود نکنند؛ که آنان چنانچه تجربه نشان داده جز تباهی شما و اغفالتان از سرنوشت کشورتان و چاپیدن ذخایر شما و به بند استعمار و ننگ وابستگی کشیدنتان و مصرفی نمودن ملت و کشورتان به چیز دیگر فکر نمی‌کنند؛ و می‌خواهند با این وسایل و امثال آن شما را عقب مانده، و به اصطلاح آنان «نیمه وحشی» نگه دارند.

  80. pragmatic says:

    As I said a couple of days before arresting Baghai that more of AN’s colleagues are going to be arrested, TODAY, I say that his excellency Hazrateh Ayatollah Hashemi is not going to let this one go buy him softly. Those of you who thought he is done during AN’s reign should learn. He is not going anywhere and if he opens his mouth as he said last week a lot of things will occur. The question is when will he do so?!

    In Esfand once again we shall defeat you AN and Hojatieh clans!!
    کیستی و چیستی شخصیتی چون هاشمی رفسنجانی سؤالی است که، اگرچه خود ایشان و طرفداران و مخالفانش به کرات درباره آن سخن گفته‌اند، اما انگار تمامی ندارد و هنوز از او می‌ترسند و این مرد کهنه‌کار سیاست، وقتی لب به سخن می‌گشاید بلافاصله مورد تجزیه و تحلیل دوست و دشمن قرار می‌گیرد و حتی وقتی به دلایلی نتواند یا نخواهد سخن بگوید، سکوتش نیز تیتر اول خبرگزاری‌ها و روزنامه‌ها می‌شود. به راستی او کیست یا چیست که 37 سال تمام در سیاست ایستاده و حتی در سن 80 سالگی هم نمی‌گذارند از پای بنشیند. عجیب اینکه دشمنانش در اوج کینه و حقد، از یک سو بر تمام شدن تاریخ مصرف و جایگاهش داد سخن می‌دهند و از سوی دیگر از کوچکترین موضع‌گیری، حرکت و واکنشش نمی‌توانند بگذرند و سعی می‌کنند همواره برای فرار از ضعف‌ها، کاستی‌ها و ناتوانی خود با بهانه و بی‌بهانه او را دشمن و طرف دعوای خود معرفی ‌کنند و از این راه خود را مهم جلوه دهند.

    برخلاف برخی تازه به دوران‌رسیده‌های دوآتشه که حتی یک سیلی هم برای دفاع از انقلاب نخورده‌اند، او برای همین انقلاب شکنجه شده و 7 سال از بهترین روزگار جوانی را پشت میله‌های زندان، حتی در انفرادی‌های کمیته مشترک ضدخرابکاری‌های ساواک گذرانده است. او به قول مقام معظم رهبری، برای همین انقلاب بارها تا مرز شهادت پیش رفته است. حتی اگر خودخواهی هم باشد، نمی‌تواند نسبت به انقلاب اسلامی و اتفاقات امروز و فردای آن بی‌تفاوت باشد. شاید به قول آیت‌الله خامنه‌ای در خیلی از مسائل با شخص اول کشور اختلاف سلیقه داشته باشد، اما پایان کیستی و چیستی او در انقلاب اسلامی و جدائیش از رهبر «یک توهم» است.

    آیت الله هاشمی تا به حال سعه صدر داشتند و چیزی نگفتند در حقیقت مسائل را افشا نکردند و واکنشی نشان نداشته اند اما ما آینده را نمی توانیم پیش بینی کنیم. تا به حال که این گونه بوده است.»

    وفا کنیم و ملامت کشیم و خوش باشیم
    که در طریقت ما کافریست رنجیدن

  81. pragmatic says:

    I am glad he is going to Evin. It vividly is making Ayatollah more popular.
    BTW, you Hashemi haters, do you expect Efat Hashemi to say something or not? If she does and it’s directly at Ayatollah Khamenie, then what? Do not forget both husband and wife are old and are they going to accept their son be in prison in last years of their life?

  82. Amir says:

    So now Effat Mar’ashi is threatening us that she will lash out at rahbar if his children can’t have their way with beyyolmal and Revolution? Figures!

  83. Amir says:

    Also I understand if Hadhemi opens his mouth things will happen because ان السمع و البصر و الفواد کل اولءک کان عنه مسوولا
    So things will happen indeed. And yes, the man knows how to incite revolt; when he was president his inaction caused revolt and when he wanted to become president his actions stirred up trouble.

  84. masoud says:

    Pirouz. Thanks for the link.
    Everyone else: any idea what the charges against baghai are?

  85. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:30 am

    I think she (Effat) is the singing fat lady mentioned earlier

  86. pragmatic says:


  87. pragmatic says:


    No puedo creer que tipos como Ahmadinejad más que Hashemi. Dios mío!

    De la misma manera que ustedes ávidamente apoyo Ahmadinejad, nos apoyamos con avidez el ayatolá Hashemi.

    Adios Amigos!

    I’m out!

  88. BiBiJon says:

    Pirouz says:
    June 11, 2015 at 3:31 am

    A very revealing discussion on the NewsHour the other night.

    Snippets of transcript follows:

    COL. ANDREW J. BACEVICH: Well, more than that, with all due respect, I think Secretary Panetta is vastly exaggerating the threat posed by ISIS.

    The threat posed by ISIS to the United States of America is actually very, very limited. We probably should be worrying more about drug lords in Mexico, in terms of a direct threat to our safety. ISIS threatens the stability of a region that we ourselves destabilized, as a result of our own folly back in 2003.

    LEON PANETTA: … I mean, ask — ask the people of Paris what happened there with ISIS. Ask the people in Brussels what happened there with ISIS. What happened in Toronto? What’s happened in this country as a result of the threat from ISIS? This is a national security threat. And we shouldn’t kid ourselves about that.


    Clearly Paneta is selling something. One could instead cite Anders Behring Breivik in Norway, Sandy Hook Elementary School, and Dunblane Primary School, etc. and prioritize national security response according to actual numbers of victims, rather than the perps’ amount of facial hair.

    Also of interest was the zero-sum mentality on display when Bacevich suggested Iran be the “informal” partner in the fight against ISIS. Even though Bacevich softened it by likening it to partnering with Stalin the mass-murderer (something Iran has never done), still Paneta and FLOURNOY whose hair was on fire about the terrific danger ISIS poses could not countenance partnering with Iran, even if Iran was best placed to take the fight to ISIS, if that meant Iran would gain a simdgen of influence in Iraq, an influence she already has. No Sir. In fact this whole ISIS thing which is no threat to the US but a huge threat to Iraq is being used.

    It is fairly clear US wants military bases in Iraq, and until it gets them, no help for the Iraqis will be forthcoming to confront ISIS and their Saudi supporters. Why? Mackinder’s theory explains a lot, whereas oft proffered baloney about Christendom vs Muslims generally, and redneck hatred of Iran in particular explains nothing.

  89. BiBiJon says:

    And, the IQ of the poster is:


  90. Sammy says:

    Kerry don’t die on us, at least not before June 30th….(and All the Heinz billions)


    …The Iranian media has been known to report “conspiracy theories” in the past, such as a September report that Israel was spearheading a dangerous global plot to spread the Krav Maga martial art worldwide and a December report that Israel was building settlements in Iraq.

    The latest Iranian report, first published by the Nasim news agency and subsequently picked up by dozens of Iranian news sites, based its information on “an American news website” which cites a Russian foreign intelligence service report as the source of the information.

    According to the report in Nasim, Kerry secretly met with one of the leaders of Islamic State on Sunday. The meeting eventually led to an armed clash and an attempt to assassinate the US secretary of state.

    Kerry’s meeting, in which the alleged assassination attempt took place, was with Gulmurod Khalimov, a senior Tajik police commander, trained in the United States, who announced his defection to Islamic State in a video released last week, the report states.

    Having received training from the US State Department previously, Khalimov was well aware of State Department security procedures and he used the knowledge to get another member of his entourage into the secret meeting with Kerry, with the intention of assassinating him, the report claims….

  91. Rehmat says:

    The article is full of western propaganda lies against Islam and Muslims. The so-called Al-Qaeda, ISIS/ISIL, al-Shabaab, al-Nusra, Boko Haram, 9/11, 7/7, etc. etc. have been proven to be created by the US/Israel to divide Muslims and weaken Muslim-world so none of them can afford a military challenge to the Zionist colonial empire in Palestine.

    On Wednesday, former Israeli president, Shimon Peres, speaking at a Harzliya conference couldn’t control his Zionist hatred toward Turkey and Iran. He stated that he is pleased at AKP’s election set-back and pro-Israel Kurdish HDP’s members being elected to Turkish parliament for the first time. Some readers maybe interested to know that 0ver 50,000 Jewish Kurds are Israeli citizens and some of them serve in the Israel Occupation Force (IOF).

    “I’m happy what happened in Turkey. Erdogan wanted to turn Turkey into Iran, and there is no room for two Iran’s in the Middle East,” Peres said.

    Peres being a confirmed war criminal and a Zionist idiot cannot be expected to make any sense. One doesn’t need a PhD to find out that Turkey can never become an Islamic Republic of Iran. Erdogan is no Khamenei. The first collaborates with the US-Israel-Saudi ‘Axis of Evil’ – the latter opposes the same ‘Axis of Evil’. Khamenei is the only world leader, Nelson Mandela called My Leader.

    Israel-born British author, musician and blogger, Gilad Atzmon, posted on September 25, 2008: “Truth must be said, I do admire fierce President Ahmadinejad almost as much as I despise war criminal Shimon Peres.”

    In November 2013, Shimon Peres admitted that Yasser Arafat was killed in France by Israeli agents.

    American investigative journalist and author, Christopher Bollyn, in his book, Solving 9/11 has exposed Shimon Peres as one of the ‘Masterminds’ behind the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in United States.


  92. Amir says:

    Amir says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:30 am

    Not that anyone is paying attention, but I meant to say “her children”. Just saying that for the record.

  93. Amir says:

    Also, I thought of something and I had to share:
    The whole mess is stemming from the failure of our academic institutions to come up with new plans and procedures, compatible with Islamic governance, which compelled “reconstruction” administration to send roughly 4-5 thousand students abroad, who formed the core of technocrats, who did their best to subdue independence-seeking motivations (to pave the way for Globalization taking control), etc etc, including the whole business of 2009 Sedition, and other sedition to come in the future.

    So… some people have to stop cargo-cultishly following in the steps of Westerners, and turn the whole way they look at things upside down, including myself.

    And I’m not talking about Smith here, to be clear.

  94. Smith says:

    آقای دکتر احمدی ریاست آموزش دانشگاه روبروی من خطاب کردند:«آقای دکتر اکسیری‌فرد؛ ایراد خودشان را قبول ندارند و نفهمیده‌اند٬ از صدای خودشان خجالت نمی‌کشند و در جمع‌ها هم بدون خجالت سخن می‌گویند.»


    Just checking, but what century we are living in? Sometimes I get confused with all these Shia and Sunni Isis running around.

  95. James Canning says:


    I think the notion of Iran as “enemy of the West” is nonsense. Iran as “enemy” of most of the planet?

  96. James Canning says:


    Thanks. Iran as “enemy” of Japan? Silly, really.

  97. pragmatic says:

    What are you talking about?

  98. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    This must be heaven…

    10 years mandatory, $5.2 million fine, 50 lashes


    براساس ماده 5 قانون تشدید مجازات مرتکبین ارتشاء، اختلاس و کلاهبرداری، نامبرده متهم به اخذ رشوه اختلاس 600 میلیونی تومانی بود که براساس این ماده قانونی، وی به 10 سال حبس، رد مال 600 میلیون تومانی و 1.2 میلیارد تومان جزای نقدی و همچنین انفصال دائم از خدمات دولتی محکوم شد.

    براساس ماده 3 قانون تشدید مجازات مرتکبین ارتشاء، اختلاس و کلاهبرداری، این فرد متهم به ارتشاء به مبلغ 5 میلیون و 200 هزار دلار بود که براساس همین ماده قانونی به 10 سال حبس، رد مال به مبلغ 5.2 میلیون دلار و جزای نقدی معادل همان مقدار (5.2 میلیون دلار) و انفصال دائم از خدمات دولتی به همراه 50 ضربه شلاق محکوم شد.

    براساس ماده 610 قانون مجازات اسلامی، نامبرده به 5 سال حبس محکوم شد.

    این منبع آگاه افزود: با رعایت قانون 134 مجازات اسلامی در مقام اجرا،‌ اشد این احکام که همان 10 سال است اجرا خواهد شد.

  99. pragmatic says:

    After reading the posts for past four years or so, I have realized that we have two kinds of Iranians here:

    1- Those who live in Iran and are in love with Dr. Ahmadinejad. At the same time don’t like Hashemi, Khatami, Rouhani and all the Eslahtalabs.

    2- Those who live abroad and have the same ideology as group 1.

    Since you people are the absolute majority on this site, I have asked a question a few times, however, I have not read a reply from either group, whom are the same!

    1- I really would like to know why did Dr. Ahmadinejad shut down Sazman Barnameh va Boodjeh.

    2- Why did he change all the managers of 2nd and 3rd level of governmental offices? Some of them had 25+ years of experience. They were good people. They were working hard without any wrong doing.

  100. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 13, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    The specific question that you have raised must be addressed to Dr. Ahmadinejad.

    The Management and Budget Office, in my opinion, had become too dumb, too fat, and too un-needed. All these five-year programs, themselves modeled after the Soviet experience of 1920 and 1930s, were not doing anything for Iran; their goals were never met and there were never any consequence for failure to meet the targets. Nor was there any analysis as to why the plan failed to reach its goals.

    Secondarily, in my opinion, the planning approach was no longer needed for Iran since she did not require the construction of the basic infrastructures; what she needed and needs is the unshackling of the economic initiative of the Iranian people – from the state.

    In regards to the change in personnel: you state that they had 25-years of experience? In exactly what? Ordering tea and attending seminars and having effective productivity of 30 minutes per 8 hours of nominal work a day?

    25-years of sitting there and making sure that none of the initiatives of the executive branch are implemented efficiently, diligently and honestly?

    In US, it is not uncommon for a new Chief Executive Officer to bring his own people since there is often resistance to the new CEO. Every time the new President comes to the White House there is major termination of US government departments of the staff of the previous government.

    And US government is at least an order of magnitude more efficient than that of Iranian Government.

    Mr. Ahmadinejad, as the new President of Iran, was within his rights to change the government of Iran and reorganize it they way he saw fit. The government workers are not there as tenured professors – they are there to serve the Iranian people as bet as they can and carry out the orders and directives of the chief executive.

  101. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 13, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    Exactly right.

    Central planning does not work in Iran since there is no gulag in Iran for high government officials and their families. Even with a fully functional gulag, central planning never can match the efficiency of markets.

    The resistance these elements put up to sabotage Dr Ahmadinejad’s plan for removal of subsidies was the proof that the whole planning structure was rotten to the core. These were not efficient Iran loving elements but the kaftals who do not want let go of official perks and power.

    Sazman Barnameh va Boodjeh was actually created by Shah to implement 7 year plans which was supposed to develop Iran and turn it into a first world country. To be fair, some development happened but Iranian nation remained a third world country and eventually much due to the mess of this planning revolted in a revolution. After revolution, five year plans started under the same government agency. To be fair, some development happened. But Iran still remains a third world country after nearly 70 years of supposed developmental planning under two different government structures one secular monarchy and other theological republic, despite having the huge income from oil and other natural resources.

    By comparison, South Korea started to implement its own five year plans in 1962 (by a benevolent dictator). Within 25 years (5th phase of development), South Korea had transformed itself from an agrarian, backward, war stricken and defeated nation whose government used to supply Korean women to American military in order to keep American soldiers’ beds warm for a minuscule amount of American foreign aid, into an industrial power on its way to dominate world markets. In 1961 South Korean GDP per capita was 75 dollars. Iran’s was 225 dollars. In 2014, Iran’s GDP per capita was 4,700 dollars. South Korean GDP per capita was 26,000 dollars.

    Reason is, the South Korean planners were not fat and corrupt officials with 25 years of experience in twiddling their thumbs in air-conditioned offices with government cars waiting at the gate to fast ferry them to their waiting harems. The Iranian planners were more into planning for their own personal lives both under the Shah and IRI.

    Hyundai was founded as part of second five year plan of South Korea in 1967 (IranKhodro was founded in 1962) assembling a cheap model of Ford Cortina. By late 60’s, South Korean planners understood that car is a complex industrial product and unless they do not design and develop their own models, they will never be able to compete. So they hired one of the world’s most famous car designer and business executive George Turnbull and gave him a free hand. Turnbull in turn hired talented engineers and brought on board world famous car designers to South Korea and started designing South Korean cars. Koreans kept learning from the master like good students.

    Today Hyundai is the world’s fourth largest car manufacturer and even sells cars to Iranians among the rest of the planet. In Iran the incompetent CEOs are hired based on their connections with halls of power including the Sazman Barnameh va Boodjeh. After almost 70 years of implementing economic plans drawn up by this agency, Iran is still decades away from becoming a first world country as it has always been. And will always be.

    Nowadays, Sazman Barnameh va Boodjeh allocates huge funds and foreign exchange in dollars to be paid to European soccer trainers to train the useless Iranian footballers. But God forbid the day, these planners hire European or Japanese or South Korean or even Indian CEO’s for IranKhodro and Saipa or hire some Italian car designers or for that matter hire some world famous real talent in industries. After all a competent CEO or a world famous industrial designer is no more expensive to hire than a useless and ridiculous Portuguese football trainer. The only difference is in planning goals. Apparently soccer is more important than industrial designs.

    Dr Ahmadinejad was no angel. But as you always say, at least he took some initiatives and tried to change things. At least he tried to get things done, instead of perpetuating the cargo cult culture of Iran.

  102. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 13, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    You are being too hard on Iranians.

    South Korea (and north Korea) was already ahead of Iran in electrification, literacy, general infrastructure, and industry on the eve of Korean War – all thanks to the Japanese who laid the material and intellectual and legal foundations of New Korea.

    Without the Japanese occupation, Korea would have been exactly at the level of development of China or Vietnam.

    [Very similar situation obtained on the island of Formosa/Taiwan – Japanese built the foundations of the later success of Chinese there.]

    The second thing that Korea got was the boost in demand for products during Vietnam War; they helped supply that war.

    Lastly, they got some technology – not sure if that was in auto sector or not – from the Japanese but they then signed agreements that basically pledged them not to press for any compensation or reparations for the actions of Japan in Korea during World War II and before.

    Just like 1890, Korean leaders again sold the Korean people’s interests.

    I also think US was using South Korea as a show case of what “Free World” is capable of doing; until 1980s North and South Korea had almost similar standard of living.

    On the other hand, a Korean would always bring oil up and say that you have oil in Iran and minerals and land and agriculture and different climatic zones and we have none of that.

    The Truth must lie somewhere in between.

    But I agree, all these state-owned companies must be privatized.

  103. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 13, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    Maybe. But being harsh is the necessity because of the economic war being waged.

    Dear Fyi, do you know of any Iranian doctor of religion who is perusing anything similar to Thomas Aquinas works in Christianity? Or for that matter anything ground breaking?

  104. M. Ali says:


    I can’t answer your first question. I have so little information on that, but I’ll answer your second to the best of my abilities,

    “Why did he change all the managers of 2nd and 3rd level of governmental offices? Some of them had 25+ years of experience. They were good people. They were working hard without any wrong doing.”

    That’s exactly one of the reasons I liked Ahmadinejad. He shook things up. I don’t like the idea of removing one old man and putting in another new old man, but Ahmadinejad’s team were YOUNG & ENERGETIC and full of new ideas.

    I’m surprised when Ahmadinejad’s opposition were called the Reformists. What a load of bullshit. Ahmadinejad has been Iran’s biggest reformist ever. On one side you had a group of Rafsanjani (8 years president), Khatami (8 years president), Mousavi (8 years Prime Minister), Karoubi (head of majlist) as “The Reformists”. What?? How can the entire establishment since the beginning of IRI be the Reformists??

    Rouhani’s cabinet is the oldest in the IRI history. The average age of his cabinet is 58, while Ahmednijad’s was 49.

    This is a fast moving world. It’s a world where experience doesn’t mean much anymore. In my company, I only hire the young. A person with 20 years experience is a disadvantage for me.

    And during Ahmedinijad’s time, I actually saw young leaders in different government departments. I don’t want to specifically mention departments, but it was fantastic seeing young men in their late 30s and early 40s in charge, full of energy, ready to take the initiative, have the will power to go for change, etc.

    But now. It’s back to people that are old enough to be so cautious about everything that nothing happens. No one has the will anymore to shake things up.

    It’s been two years since Rouhani has come to office. What has happened? NOTHING. DO SOMETHING. You talk about the economy. Yes, the economy is stalled. Everyone is sitting on their asses, waiting for the outcomes of the negotiations for the LAST TWO YEARS! Nothing is happening. No one is buying, no one is selling, no contracts are being signed. And what is the government doing?

    During AH’s tenure, they’d do things. Elites whine about Maskan Mehr, but screw them, it might mean nothing for Tehran, but it has been a huge thing for hundreds of thousands all around Iran. In small cities, there was NOTHING ELSE. No one was building apartments, because it wasn’t profitable, so young people had only two choices,
    1) Live in their families houses
    2) Have their parents build a house for them

    But with Maskan Mehr, the third option, was to stand on your own feet. Such things are vastly more important than any of those armchair critics can even begin to realize.

    Or let’s talk about subsidies. The government now keeps moaning about 45t handouts. But they seem to forget that AH’s government cancelled a hell lot of other subsidies and then gave this 45t. He had the guts to do something that Rafsanjani & Khatami’s government TALKED about but didn’t do. But no one ever mentions how much money that is saving the government now. The idea for AH was to remove those subsidies and then provide the 45t one to ensure it was an easier transaction. And he succeeded.

    The bottom line is that AH is an easy target. He’s not cleric & old enough for the conservative old dinosaurs, and he is not good looking enough for the liberals.

  105. Irshad says:

    Fyi – in your view now that Tayyip Erdogan has got his wings clipped in the recent election, what is the likelihood of Turkey directly using her army to intervene in Syria, with the financial backing of Saudi and Qatar? If this happens, I dont think Obama will mind as the R2P crowd and Neocons will be satisfied aswell as Zionists. Thanks as always!

  106. Irshad says:

    @pragmatic – one thing about Dr Ahmednejad was that he was fearless and stated things as he saw it whether it be about the Holocaust, Zionism, Osama Bin Laden etc. This made the European and American liberals hate him as now they were being told some home truths! This made a refreshing change from the castrated Arab ir Muslim leaders who say nothing but what the Euro/American liberal wants to hear. Erdogan was in similar way – to raise his popularity – until he became sectarianised and set Syria on fire and blows the wind of flames in Iraq.

  107. pragmatic says:

    Dear Ahmadinejadies,

    You guys are so great at distorting facts & figures and doting. You guys have closed your eyes to all his wrong doings. Your ardent love for Ahmadinejad is so sick.
    You don’t remember all his gaffes and diplomatic blunders. How much did Ahmadinejad’s famous white jacket – a symbol of his humble beginnings cost Iranian people? All of this came at a heavy price, in particular for the Iranian middle class and the poorer strata of society who are suffering from western sanctions despite the social security system that the state in Iran and its immense underbelly administer.

    One of you said that Maskaneh Mehr was one of the great things that he did!! He should be trialed for that project!

    He left the presidency with minimal support. Out of all the presidents after the death of Imam Khomeini in 1989, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad departed with the least systematic support and a rather diminutive power base.

    In many ways he is the George W. Bush of Iranian politics.

    I wish you guys had the chance to go to governmental offices during his reign! Sudoku was the work!!! Catastrophe!

  108. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 14, 2015 at 1:19 am

    No but that means nothing as I have not paid attention – the last person I was familiar with was the late Allameh Tabatabaie.

    I am sure that there are others but unfortunately I do not know of them.

    There used to be a commentator here by the name of Unknown-Unknowns who moved to Qum to study Shia doctrines; he might have been able to supply some names.

    In regards to Korea, not that please that between 1960 to 2010 by a factor of 2; Iran’s population increased by a factor of 4.

  109. M.Ali says:


    “He left the presidency with minimal support. Out of all the presidents after the death of Imam Khomeini in 1989, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad departed with the least systematic support and a rather diminutive power base.”

    I already posted one link from March 2015 that was about some poll and showed AH only a few points below Rouhani. Do you want me to repost it in case you missed it?

    I’m not sure why you are being so aggressive.

  110. fyi says:

    Irshad says:

    June 14, 2015 at 8:21 am

    In my estimation, there is very little likelihood of Turkey intervening in Syria now.

    Even when AKP had majority in the Turkish Parliament that was not a very likely course of action and since someone had to pay for that war. Neither US nor EU have been in a position to finance that war.

    And I also think that there is extreme reluctance among Turkish people to fight among Arabs – they despise Arabs even more than Iranians.

    Right now, the enemies of Iran, Syria, Iraq and the Shia Crescent in general are hoping that ISIS will attack Aleppo or Damascus and destroy the Syrian Ba’ath State.

    So why intervene now when “Victory” is just around the corner?

  111. fyi says:

    Irshad says:

    June 14, 2015 at 8:28 am

    Yes I agree.

    Dr. Ahmadinejad said that they insult God and Prophets all the time in Europe and North America while silencing those who criticize the Cult of Shoah.

    Since then, Axis Powers have moved even further into their fantasylands; trying to force perversion to be accepted as normal. And then they have the gall to come and criticize polygamy.

    About Erdogan: he and Mr. Mursi demonstrated how wrong Iranian leaders had been in their estimation of Muslim Brotherhood as being “closest to us”. In fact, there is no political formation, party, tendency, doctrine that is close to that of Iran’s.

  112. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 14, 2015 at 9:52 am

    You need to specify on what basis Mr. Ahmadinejad is to be indicted for Maskan Mehr.

    Should not instead Mr. Rafsanjani be indicated on multiple counts of dereliction of duty when he said nary a word when such men as the late Mr. Saidi Sirjani were murdered under police custody?

    Tehran consumes 1/3 of Iranian budget – having 1/8 of the Iranian population. Mr. Ahmadinejad tried to alter that.

    Was that wrong?

  113. James Canning says:


    I was referring to FYI’s contention that most Europeans viewed Iran as an “enemy of the West”. I think the concept itself is silly.

  114. pragmatic says:

    M.Ali: I am sure your poll was done by Raja News!! :)))
    I am not aggressive, I just don’t like distortion of facts and figures!

    If you take the public transportation you’ll find the real poll!

    FYI: How about Zahara Khazemi? How about Khaso Khashak? Don’t go there, please.

  115. pragmatic says:

    JC- and i said i agree! then you said something about japan and….. forget it dude.

  116. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    June 14, 2015 at 1:36 pm

    As I said, you have been away for far too long from Europe – more than 15 years I estimate, to know what is going on there.

    In Europe, they abhor ISIS – the primitive savages – but they detest Islamic Iran since that is a monstrosity (religious government) that should and could not be allowed to exist.

  117. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 14, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    Mr. Ahmadinejad tried to get rid of Mr. Motazavi but other people in Iranian governing structures protected him.

    But that man continued on his criminal ways; this time murdering sons of the old revolutionaries in Kahrizak in 2009.

    I hope those deaths have been a lesson to others who protected him; crime against one is crime against all.

    The idiots still thought that they could get away Muslims into In-People and Out-People.

    And yet he remains protected.

  118. M.Ali says:

    “M.Ali: I am sure your poll was done by Raja News!! :) ))
    I am not aggressive, I just don’t like distortion of facts and figures!

    If you take the public transportation you’ll find the real poll! ”

    1) No, actually, the poll was made by a US based institute.

    2) And no, you can’t actually find the real poll on the public transportation. That’s not how polls work. That’s exactly one of the issues of us in the middle east. People would talk to their circle of friends, and see everyone is pro-AH or anti-AH, and they would assume all 80 million are like that.

    On another forum that I am posting in, an Egyptian who was anti-Morsi, claimed that not even 5% of Egyptians support Morsi. How did he come to that figure? From his personal life & circle of friends.

    So who is distorting facts now?

    You mentioned Zahra Kazemi. Who are you going to mention next. Neda? We expect that an Iranian posting here is not debating using the usual talking points. We know how complex the Iranian political system is. We should know the responsibilities of each department and who falls under what. Is the president in charge of judicial system?

    How about Khaso Khashak? You said don’t go there, but are you really a veteran of war? that would mean you should at least be in your 50s or 60s, but I’m sorry to say, you are acting like a college student. Yes, I was a greenie too back in 2009, but after the silly emotion died down, I realized how silly I was being.

    And yes, at first I was pissed off by that phrase, but in reflection…I look back at those days in embarrassment. How easily we are fooled. We all got up in the morning and were 100% sure that there was fraud. How on earth were we sure?

    As you said, let’s not go there.

  119. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Forget that old bullshit discussion.

    It’s all about profits:


    “Mr. Bokor-Ingram said the room for growth was ultimately too monumental for foreign investors to ignore, whatever Iran’s shortcomings. Price-earnings ratios average in the single digits, while dividend yields are in the double digits, he said.

    “We have put together a lot of early-stage funds, providing investors with the opportunity to get into new markets early,” Mr. Bokor-Ingram said. “But Iran is one of the best opportunities to get into a new market in a long time, if not ever in my career.”

  120. pragmatic says:

    اگر به ایام انتخابات ریاست جمهوری 92 بازگردید، به چه کسی رای خواهید داد؟
    سعید جلیلی
    محسن رضایی
    حسن روحانی
    محمد غرضی
    محمدباقر قالیباف
    علی اکبر ولایتی
    تعداد کل آراء : 73566

    Jalili votes are Ahmadinejads. I don’t accept US polls for Iran. How come US is bad and an enemy in everything else, but when it comes to polls, we should accept theirs? Hypocrite.. Ahmadinejad does not have a base in Iran, even those peasants and some intellectuals like …, whom were fooled by him (potato, rice and cash) won’t vote for him and like him. Yet another distortion by you (FYI), Mortazavi! The difference between us is that you guys move from green to black and then back to green or another color. I have not changed my opinion for 44 years! I am sure you are not living in Iran, because it is going to take at least fifty years to clean it Ahmadinejad’s mess, especially the culture.

    In the end what have you guys done for your country? Oh let me guess…..Nothing! I hope I see a day that he is arrested and trialed. Dowlat mehparvar and pakdast!

  121. M. Ali says:


    Why are you being so confrontational? We can have this discussion, but you have to understand that we have different viewpoints. That’s the whole point of being in a republic with elections.

    So, let me answer your post, point by point, as much as I can.

    First of all. Regarding your poll, you made fun of me by claiming my poll stats was from Raja News, and then you go and post a website poll. I did a search on your poll and it comes from a website called entekhab.ir. I don’t know much about the website but a cursory look appeared that the site had a pro-Rohani slant. So, obviously, it’s visitors will vote for Rohani. I don’t think website polls in general ever have anything relevant to say except to give you an idea about it’s audience. That’s it.

    Secondly, you are saying “Jalili votes are Ahmadinejads.”. That’s silly. I am pro-Ahmedinejad, but I did not vote for Jalili. I voted for Ghalibaf. I bet there are many people who would vote for Ahmedinejad and wouldn’t vote for Jalili (or many other of his deputies)

    Now, let’s move on to your next sentence which is,
    ” I don’t accept US polls for Iran. How come US is bad and an enemy in everything else, but when it comes to polls, we should accept theirs? Hypocrite.”

    I’m not a fanatic anti-everything-USA. How hypocrite would I be if I claimed that, then spend my time in an AMERICAN WEBSITE hosted by TWO EX-CIA AMERICANS.I’m against US foreign policy and specially how it relates to Iran. Doesn’t mean I want to kick Bill Gates in the balls.

    And the reason I gave you a the US based poll was because you claimed my poll was from Raja News. I tried to claim that I wasn’t using a pro-Ahmednijad bias source. That’s all. We need to be honest and try to look at unbiased data as much as possible to formulate a picture in our head that relates to reality as close as we can.

    Moving on,
    “Ahmadinejad does not have a base in Iran, even those peasants and some intellectuals like …, whom were fooled by him (potato, rice and cash) won’t vote for him and like him. ”

    You may be right, Ahmadinejad might not have a base. But how can YOU be so sure. Did you talk to all 80 million people. The best we can rely on are polls, not personal anecdotes. I also notice that you have no respect for people who actually did vote for him. You claim they were all peasants that were fooled. Is it so hard for you to grasp that people might have different opinions than you, and they are not all idiot peasants fooled by potatoes?

    “The difference between us is that you guys move from green to black and then back to green or another color. I have not changed my opinion for 44 years!”

    I don’t think that’s something to be so immensely proud of. As new information comes in and as I develop as an human being, my opinion changes. If I am shown good data with well backed reasons to prove that my way of thinking is incorrect, then I would be pigheaded NOT to change my opinion.

    I guess there is no point talking to you, if you think it’s a medal of honor not to change one’s opinion for 44 years.

  122. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Just another asshole trying to divert the discussion. Fuck off already.

  123. pragmatic says:

    Excuse me! What kind of a language is this?! If you don’t like don’t read my comments. I’m so sorry for you basiji. Biadab,bitarbeeyat.

  124. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 15, 2015 at 9:41 am

    They are all like that; impolite, rude, intolerant and generally uncouth and barbaric.

    All of them are Muslims and when they run out of arguments, they resort to searing at you or calling you a non-Muslim – implicitly threatening you with Death.

    Now, these are not common people, they have had the opportunity and the privilege to live outside of the Muslim World for varying lengths of time and know one or two European languages quite well and therefore have access to all of the moral and intellectual and scientific and philosophical and literary fruits of the Western Civilization.

    They remain what is best described as four-legged animals, on them a few books.

    And they want to build a new society and a new civilization – they cannot even keep the old civilized way of Iranians who were extremely polite.

    Is it any wonder that we are in the mess that we are?

  125. Rehmat says:

    Iran’s Khamenei compares US cops with ISIS

    On June 4, 2015, millions of Iranians marked the 26th anniversary of death of Imam Khomeini, the founder of the modern Islamic State of Iran in 1979. Tens of thousands attended the main event at Imam’s mausoleum in Tehran. Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei and Imam Khomeini’s grandson Hojjatoleslam Seyyed Hassan Khomeini spoke at the ceremony.

    Ayatullah Khamenei gave his views on several topics Iranian nation is facing on daily basis – from possible US-Iran nuclear deal by the end of this month, to the ISIS, given birth by the US and Israel. He also reaffirmed that Iran will never stop supporting Palestinian nation’s rights to recover its ancestral land stolen from them by the alien Zionist Jews.

    Khamenei also repeated one of Imam Khomeini’s principles of the 1979 Islamic Revolution: “International solidarity with oppressed people everywhere.”

    What I found unique in his speech was his criticism of anti-Black racism among American security agencies.

    Commenting on American police racism and brutality against Afro-American people (21% of total US population) – Khameini compared it to the western supported ISIS thugs.

    “Today, we are as much opposed to the savage and oppressive behavior of DAESH (the so-called “Islamic State”) in Iraq and Syria as we are to the oppressive behavior of America’s Federal Police inside their own country. Both of them are the same,” he said.

    There is no denying to the fact that the US internal security agencies receive anti-mob training in Israel and locally – all funded by pro-Israel Jewish groups. Abraham Foxman and his ADL group have always supported police brutality against Black and other ethnic minorities.

    It’s reported that ISIS ringleader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi, a Crypto-Jews, received military training in Israel.

    It’s reported that one Black person is killed every 28 hours by police in the US.


  126. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    You’re the worst of them all old man.

  127. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    It’s strange that pragmatic keeps rehashing the old Ahmadinejad-Rafsanjani bullshit discussion. He just can’t shut up about it.

    Rafsanjani and Ahmadinejad are history, move on you idiots.

    There is a lot to be said about this adminstration which is not as pragmatic says dowlat mehr o pakdasti but in fact the dowlat-e ashraf o dalal-ha o Porsche-savar-ha o milliarder-ha o mohre sukhte-haye ettelat o pirmard-ha o …etc.

    The last thing they care about is normal people, that’s for sure.

    But you see, talking about this stuff would be diverting the discussion and getting back into mutual name-calling which the original bitarbiat and biadab pragmatic started, right?

    You can’t start by being bitarbiat and biadab as pragmatic was and then when somebody tells you to fuck off, call them biadab and bitarbiat, nafahm!

    And as far as old man is concerned, BiBiJon answered you and explained why you are the worst of them all. Go back and read it.

    It’s funny, you have spent the last few years repeating what I said six-months earlier and claiming it as your own but I haven’t seen a single original thought by in all these years. Everything recycled from what others have said here or in books.

    The only four-legged animal-like “moqaled” I see here is you.

    Remember, you are self-admitted racist and have never tried to deny it. You are a delusional person who thinks that Iran’s problems are because the governments have not asked you about the world because quote: “I understand it”. Oh my God, what a fuckin douchebag!

    Unlike you monkey moqaled of everything western, I lived it to the fullest intellectually and practically and moved on from most of it. Obviously, you idiot, not everything is bad about it which I never claimed so don’t misrepresent what I have said.

    You and pragmatic/mamur dafter-e riasat jumhuri are diverting the discussion of the threads and this requires the occasional cursing and this is the height of ethics you fake pseudo-intellectual WOG.

  128. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    And Rehmat-jan I haven’t directly addressed you in all these years, but for God’s sake shut the fuck up already with this idiotic crypto-Jewish conspiracy bullshit and stop linking your personal website in every fuckin post.

  129. nahid says:

    Meet the next president of Iran .


  130. pragmatic says:

    In the course of construction government (sazandeghi), the policy taken on the agenda of regional diplomacy and foreign policy was détente. The result was that many countries in the region low-stressed the issues or eliminated them.. Until then, Saudi Arabia and Iran due to the events that had taken place had a gloomy and strained relationship. Subsequently, they established a somewhat coordinated relation in the region in favor of Islamic World. As a result of this approach, human capital, economics, religion, and spiritual were not used to undermine and destroy each other. This process persisted during reform government (eslahtalab). They also tried to detente at the international level.

    But in ninth and tenth governments the opposite of this policy was implemented. Thus, we saw the blaze of war and bloodshed in most parts of the region. The influential governments in the Islamic world and the region in general used their financial and spiritual facilities in proxy and other forms annihilating each other. There is no doubt that Saudi Arabia got into this international puzzle. However, the scene of the foreign policy and diplomacy in the classic definition as it’s written is a sum of principles, objectives, policies, trends and strategies, which every government in conjunction with other governments and international players tries to achieve the maximum benefits making sure they have the minimum possible costs and limited losses.

    With regard to nuclear talks with 5+1 and the regional affairs, the basic question is whether the politicians prior to ninth and tenth governments were not aware of the international expansionism and militant? It’s not, because they were the ones who founded and draw the road map of Islamic revolution and in this path they endured many years of difficulties and hardships.

    Is it that ninth and tenth government and its core, including Paydariha were more revolutionary, and against the arrogance of West more than other political groups and factions in Iran? They do not believe in regional or international detente, they believe the only solution is to leave the negotiations and the only way to achieve the goals is to confront the regional and non-regional countries.

    Or that the design and the formulation of foreign policy and its implementation is the task of politicians associated with reliance on several components such as intellectual foundations of the international system, the nature of the attitude of the ruling board, abilities and possibilities and objective needs of the society and political culture to be planned. One of the important topics of diplomacy is aiming to be accessible and leading to success, namely acceptable specifications.

    The cause of failure in diplomacy is non-moderate aspirations. Diplomacy is the art of implementation of possibilities and from this other necessary attributes are apparent. The aim should not be based on “wanting to”, rather on “being able to”, and we should live in a world of realities not desires and wishes.

    Finally, the art of diplomacy is not that with smallest adversity, problems, the other sides motives and non cognizant you leave the negotiating table. Because the start of every dispute and quarrel is the failure of diplomacy and logic. This being said, if the resistance and stand takes the cognizant path to negotiations and diplomacy, it is our religious and revolutionary teachings. The closeness and happily living of governments and people around the globe is also of our religious and revolutionary teachings.
    However, the circumstances in the region (strife within the Muslim world, the confrontation between Iran and Saudi Arabia, friction and eroding the capacity of the region’s countries) especially in the relations between Iran and Saudi Arabia officials that we see, is mainly Saudi officials fault because they are controlled by the international players whom wants to secure Israel regime acts.

    The eleventh government should have learnt from the past experiences that:

    1- This condition cannot continue as it is.
    2- The Middle East condition exists in a fluid and transitional.
    3- In case of transitional and uncertain future we have to use different tools.
    4- The multitude and variety of players, including non-governmental players, and non-regional countries should be considered.
    5- The principle of diplomacy is the use of all capacities.
    6- The adoption of the decision shall be proportionate to the appropriate opportunities. Therefore, we should not lose the opportunities because we all came to make it not to break it.

  131. fyi says:

    nahid says:

    June 15, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    I hope not.

    For he says:

    آژانس بین‌المللی انرژی داور ناجوانمردی نسبت به ایران است

    This a formulation of a weak person – IAEA as Judge?

    Why even accept that authority – even in principle?

    What is this IAEA that is sitting in judgment of a core state of Islamic Civilization?

    And then the invokation of the conception: ناجوانمردی

    We are not living in the time of Samak Ayyar and his colleagues.

    We are living in the times of ruthless and unforgiving powers that walk all over the weaker states and crush them.

    These types of formulations are for children and not for mature men who live on this side of Despair.

    I know that the attitude of US and EU populations – and not just governments – is this: “You are weak, we will walk all over you and do not complain; it is your fault that you are so”.

    And you know something, they are right.

    What is needed is an industrialized integrated Iran that can threaten their physical existence or their comfort.

    Appeals to UN, NPT, Legal Structures and Frameworks are for the weak and not worthy of Iran and Iranians.

  132. pragmatic says:

    This one is for the lunatic here:

    استاندار مرکزی در سالروز پیروزی حسن روحانی در انتخابات تخلفات دولت نهم و دهم را در حد سرطان پیشرفته دانست.

    مانی قمی گفت: تخلف های دولت های مختلف در جمهوری اسلامی اگر در حدیک سرماخوردگی فرض شود، تخلف های دولت های نهم و دهم در حد سرطان پیشرفته بود که پیامد آن به صورت سقوط ارزش پول ملی، تورم، رکود اقتصادی، ضعف نقدینگی و بیکاری، کشور را از پای درآورده بود.

    وی گفت: تنها برای مثال یکی از مشکلات مربوط به شرکت واگن پارس اراک به عنوان بزرگترین سازنده خودروهای ریلی خاورمیانه است که به دلیل اقدام معاون اول رییس جمهوری دولت دهم قرارداد ۱۲۶ میلیون دلاری آن با کوبا بدون دلیل موجه لغو شده و این شرکت به دلیل بی تدبیری با بدهی ۶۶ میلیارد تومانی به عنوان یکی از مشکلات صنعتی بر دست دولت تدبیر و امید مانده است.

  133. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 15, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    You and very many other critiques of the 10-th and 11-th governments are neglecting the salient feature of those governments: they were operating under war conditions – Mr. Ahmadinejad was a War President and not a Peace President and he was steadfast in standing up to US as well as Israel and later EU’s war.

    There was no way to avoid the economic war and sanctions, only delaying it – P5 had wanted to keep Iran low and vulnerable.

    [You saw that EU, USSR, and US were unanimous for their support of Iraq against Iran.

    It was no different this time.]

    US & EU had aimed at repeating what they had done to Iraq in 1990s, causing the deaths of tens of thousands and making Iraqi women whores.

    That was their aim which the 10-th and 11-th governments nullified.

    When they failed, they began the discussions around armistice – cease-fire.

    Iran has to be able to produce nuclear weapons or she will be destroyed; that is the sum of it all.

    There are specific failures – I am sure – like in any government and in any system – during peace or war.

    The government that acted weakly was that of Mr. Khatami – in my view – he folded instead of fighting back and trying to advance his agenda in as many ways as he could.

  134. James Canning says:


    Relatively few educated Europeans think the Iranian government “should not be allowed to exist”. It is certainly not the viewpoint of David Cameron or Angela Merkel.

  135. Kooshy says:

    IMO the reason that IRI and as THE result Iran has lasted and survived all the 35 years external and internal conflicts and I’ll intentions is due to 3 principal pillars.
    1- IRI’ basic political ideology has a vast grass route network that can quickly transfer and mass mobilize the very principled deeply convicted Islamic/Iranian public, this public correctly is faithful to the Islamic Iranian system and not various personalities or administrations.
    2- for most part system has not and is not discriminating different constituencies.
    3- the systems has many active and authorized counterweight balancing tools that can’t be easily bought or diverted by external or internal insurgencies.

    For example at the end of Mr Rafsanjanies 8 the year is presidencies many of his followers including his parliamentary rep. Mr. Maharani tried to change the constitution and extend his presidency indefinitely most probably with his approval but system correctly rejected that. Or in same way Mr Ahmadinejad stayed home for some dispute with leadership who is in charge of state security nothing happened, he got tired and went back to work.

    IMO for a country that has a lot of resources and for this reason has been invaded more than any other place in the history of planet is important to have a system that has a deep and difficult to penetrate political /ideological system of transferring information. We know at least since the Tobacco movement of 1800s this system has worked and in principal has made right national decision. Same is true with mobilization and transfer of information to stop the aftermath of the green movement
    Which came as the 9th of day.

    I can think of more reasons, but I hope Ali / BiB and Bibi or any other unbiased persons would contribute or oppose my views.

  136. Kooshy says:

    Since the beginning of the Iranian revolution there are a class of mostly westernized and or socially liberal Iranians inside and outside of Iran that they never accepted and never will accept the Iran which principally is an islamic ruled nation,regardless what majority of Iranians want or are.

    Throughout these past thirty some years this group of Iranian’ hope has been to some how overthrow the Islamic governance system regardless of the cost to the nation and it’ integrity or whom and how may replace the system. Principally in this goal these western minded Iranians share and had shared the same goals as that of U.S., Western Europe, Israel, monarchical Arab states, and various Iranian oppositions including die-hard Greenies, Mojahdin and communists. They still do no matter what out come even at loosing Iran as a nation state.

    In all these years I have had many conversations, arguments and debates with similar minded Iranians, to which some
    even hoped that Iran can and one day will be bombed by Israel or US so as a possible result an internal interagency can destabilize and unseat the Islamic (imam Hossein) system that IMO holds together the nation state called Iran. Since that hope of bombing Iran never materialized and as I have argued for many years geopolitically can’t ever materialize , this group’ ( including all other external and internal anti Islamic or indecent Iran listed above) plan B for a (regime) system change was and still is to open a wedge in Iranian leadership to divide and devoid the system and make the system weaker by dividing supporters on principals of Islamic governance which as mentioned on earlier post are the pillars of system’ stability.

    To this end, for achieving this task their best hope of dividing the system’ leadership is the ever power hungry Mr. Laughing Nut.
    I don’t believe any of these groups have any live for Mr Rafsanjani or his circle of family and friends, as matter of fact I don’t believe deep in their hearths any of them is sorry to see MH is going to jail but every one of them
    Is hoping that as a result a big scandal will surface which can cause trouble to keep the system stable. IMO base on pillars of stability I described on earlier post that’s a wishful thinking like the hope of system
    collapse due to greenies after 88 elections.
    Payandeh Iran

  137. Kooshy says:

    “including all other external and internal anti Islamic or indecent Iran listed above”

    Sorry typing on a phone, above should be:

    “including all other external and internal anti Islamic or anti- independent Iran listed above”

  138. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    June 15, 2015 at 5:45 pm

    Like they did not try….

  139. kooshy says:

    What a perfect unattached and unbiased person to Judge Mr. Ahmadinejad administration’ conducts. Just notice that Cleric Hashmei’s recommendation for Mr. Zamani’ to become governor of central province is his task to keep and safeguard the current government’s “basket of votes” presumably for next election (s). With that in mind I don’t think Mr. Zamani is going to have a lot of high regards for anybody opposing the current government. However this kind of opposition is principal of IRI and that is part of what is safeguarding the system as whole.

    رئیس ستاد انتخاباتی حسن روحانی در انتخابات ریاست جمهوری یازدهم، با ارسال نامه‌ای به رئیس جمهور خواستار تعیین استانداری توانمند برای رفع مشکلات این استان شد.
    حجت الاسلام حجت الله هاشمی در این نامه که رونوشت آن به دفتر سید حسن خمینی، محمد رضا عارف، معاون اول رئیس جمهور، وزیر کشور و رئیس دفتر رئیس جمهور ارسال شده، تاکید کرده است: «استان مرکزی فعلا از حال خوبی برخوردار نیست».
    هاشمی در انتهای این نامه نیز خطاب به حسن روحانی نوشته است: « علیهذا به منظور عمل به تکلیف و پاسخگویی به مطالبات مردم و ادامه پیروزی دولت پس از پیروزی در انتخابات ۲۴ خرداد ۹۲ و تامین رضایت مندی مردم و حفظ سبد آراء دولت در انتخابات سرنوشت ساز آینده پس از بحث و بررسی گسترده و مشورت با صاحب نظران، بدین وسیله جناب آقای دکتر محمود زمانی به عنوان گزینه اصلح برای تصدی سمت استاندار استان مرکزی از سوی ستاد و حامیان دولت به حضورتان پیشنهاد اعلام و معرفی می گردد».

    در جلسه امروز هیئت دولت “محمود زمانی قمی” به عنوان استاندار استان مرکزی انتخاب شد.
    وی که دارای مدرک تحصیلی کارشناسی ارشد است با حکم استاندار قم در اردیبهشت ماه امسال جایگزین ‏کامکاری شد که 10 سال مدیرعامل منطقه ویژه اقتصادی سلفچگان بود.‏ زمانی قمی پیش از این و در انتخابات یازدهم ریاست جمهوری مسئول امور استان‌های ستادهای محمدرضا عارف را به‌عهده ‏داشت.‏
    این گزینه مطرح شده برای تصدی پست استانداری مرکزی، از اعضای هیئت رئیسه بنیاد باران است که پیش از این نیز در ‏3 ‏مهر 1379 به‌مدت 3 سال و 8 ماه و 2 روز در دولت اصلاحات استاندار استان ایلام بود.‏
    زمانی قمی از ‏5 تیر 1382 ‏به‌مدت ‏2 سال و 3 ماه نیز به‌عنوان استاندار چهارمحال و بختیاری منصوب شد.‏
    این انتصاب شایسته و عاقلانه را به مردم فهیم استان مرکزی و هیات دولت تبریک می گوییم و آرزوی توفیق روزافزون برای ایشان داریم.

  140. kooshy says:

    The question is why US government 5 months before the end of Mr. Ahmadinejad’ administration asks the king of Oman to privately invite the Iranian government for private negations in Oman knowing that Mr. Ahmadinejad administration’ term will end and it was not known who would run for presidency of Iran and who can be elected and what would be the next administration’s policy with regard to Iran’ nuclear file.

    The answer is simple US was convinced Iran’ system can’t be changed by color revolutions or even sanctions and containment, as matter of fact US was fearing without a détente with Iran, there is a likely chance of Iran posture to further destabilize US’ regional friendly client states, that element and suspicion still exist. This is the reason (similar for Nixon asking to open talks to china, I am sure on Kerry’s initiative) US made the request knowing Iran’s long term foreign policy (like any stable independent state) is not based on one person or administration, as Dr. Salahi (Iran’s foreign minister at the time) said a few months back, the request was discussed in SNSC and once a conscious was reached it was presented to leader for permission. Now on political side who was seating in that council Mr. Rouhani, Mr. Jalili, Mr. Ahmadinejad, Dr. Salahi
    Now some want us to believe all these people were against the negotiations except Mr. Rouhani, and few months before he even announce he is running for president, he just thought he had a good idea how to negotiate this with Americans, as matter of fact the only 2 candidates ( with possibility of Dr. Veliati) that knew what was going on with regard to private negotiations were Mr. Rouhani and Mr. Jalili the rest were not members of SNSC and privy to this developments is possible Dr. Velaiati was consulted by leader. The old greens turned purple talk in way that just this new administration find the formula how to negotiate with Americans like the previous administration refused to negotiate. Americans due to Arab spring and possibly Russia / China development became so desperate that as a prerequisite to negotiations accepted Iran’ enrichment that is how negations was possible to move to a diplomatic one on one negotiations.

  141. pragmatic says:

    To biadab,

    با سلام و دعا برای شفا شما از پروردگار
    تنها جواب من برای شما بسیجی بی ادب و تهی از عقل منطق این ضرب المثل قدیمی است، که مرحوم
    بازرگان به خلخالی گفتند، در مجلس اول، البته شما آن زمان بدنیا نیامده بودید،و اگر بودید در سنی بودید که به سیب زمینی می گفتید دیب دمینی، بهر روی بازرگان به خلخالی گفتند:
    کسی که به ما نریده بود
    کلاغ کون دریده بود
    رفتار و گفتار شما این مثل را در من تداعی کرد.
    و در آخر…آنکس که نداند حقیقت چیست داىم
    مثل یک کور است..و آنکس که حقیقت را میداند و انکار می کند نادان است
    دوباره از خداوند برای شما طلب آرامش و متانت دارم.
    دفتر ریاست جمهوری
    بنا به تشخیص حضرتعالی

  142. Sammy says:

    From SyrPer :


    ..The crackpot King receiving his honorary doctorate in camel husbandry from the University of Baku. Here he signals an answer after being asked by a prepubescent girl what 1 + 3 is.

    When you are the scion of a race of in-bred sloths, monkeys and hyenas, you must eventually show signs of cerebral cellular degeneration. King Salman of Saudi Arabia, for example, was just giving a speech during which he confused the words استرخاء and استخراء

    The first word “Istirkhaa`” is a 10th form reflexive verb in Arabic which means “one loosens or relaxes himself”. The second one, is mostly Lebanese/Syrian street hipster-speak: “Istikhraa`” a 10th form reflexive verb meaning to “treat somebody as shit”. He continued with the speech although you could hear titters in the background. Such is the fate of this Kingdom of Nightmares…..this Domain of Decay…….this Mephitic Monarchy of Meningitis.

    When this newly invested king took over the throne of ‘Abdullah, his half brother (non-Sudayri), he immediately announced to the world that he had never read Shakespeare’s historical plays. He, instead, flaunted his adherence to the infamous Dale Carnegie romain noire: “How to Lose All Good Friends and Make Everybody Your Enemy.” He dumped his own half-brother, Muqrin bin ‘Abdul-‘Azeez, who was crown prince according to established norms, and appointed in his stead his own nephew, Muhammad bin Naayef. Not to suffer the enmity of his own son in the process, the 78-year old monarch threw 34 year old son,Muhammad bin Salmaan, a bone in the form of “deputy crown prince”.

    Well, Muqrin is not happy. According to the famous Saudi Twitterer, Mujtahid, a major internal Donnybrook is building up to a crescendo. Muqrin, whom it is said was bribed by Salmaan, to accept his fate in oblivion for a mere 10 billion dollars, immediately began to do what royals of all species do when affronted: he began to plot. Mujtahid says that a royal who provides inside information to him, Sa’ood bin Sayf Al-Nassr”, a purported grandson of founding ape monarch, Sa’ood bin ‘Abdul-‘Azeez, claimed that the royal ragheads of Arabia have decided to shorten Salmaan’s reign due to a soon-to-be-announced infirmity deemed lethal to good Wahhabist mis–governance – insanity. Oh, yeah?

    Well, all of us can feel the presence of the Hashemites in all this. If not playing a direct role, certainly British connivance is detected instinctually lurking in the nitre-encrusted interstices of Saudi walls, like pernicious flies, pulling the strings of the Hashemite Dwarf rat-king puppet of Jordan to “suggest” certain solutions – say, something along the lines of his grandfather, Talaal, who was declared “schizophrenic” by British quacks and removed from power only to be sent to a Turkish “sanatorium” to live out his life like Cem Sultan at the Castle of Bourganeuf. Shakespeare would have had a field day with this. Who needs Holinshed?

    This is the king’s son, “Prince” Muhammad bin Salmaan, defense minister, and deputy crown prince. It is said he hasn’t bathed in seven years. It’s also said he doesn’t know how to shoot a BB gun or slingshot. I’ve also heard it said he ties his prehensile tail to his left thigh when wearing Western clothing.

    The king who will be installed in Salmaan’s stead is one, “Prince” Ahmad bin ‘Abdul-‘Azeez, and whose mother is another boring Sudayri trollop by the name of Hissa bint Ahmad Al-Sudayri. Scuttlebutt in the Arab Press has members of the royal family snickering behind Salmaan’s back referring to his nephew’s and son’s investitures as “a coup d’etat by teenagers”..

  143. M. Ali says:

    TEHRAN, May 30 (MNA) – It was on May 18 when the bodies of 175 Iranian divers who were reportedly buried alive with their hands tied during Iraq imposed War on Iran back in the 1980s were returned home from Iraq.
    As many as 175 bodies belonging to Iranian divers who were killed by the forces of the Saddam’s Ba’ath regime during Operation Karbala-4 with their hands tied, were brought to the country through Shalamcheh Border Crossing in Khuzestan Province.

    Brigadier General Mohammad Bagherzadeh, the commander of the Missing in Action (MIA) Search Committee of the Iranian Armed Forces, said some of the retrieved bodies bore no scars indicating that the divers might have been buried alive.

    Once the news of the final homecoming of the martyred Iranian divers and what happened to them broke in the Iranian news, millions of Iranian mourned in social networking sites for their distressful loss after 29 years.

    The facts on the divers being buried alive or being killed with their hands tied provoked a wave of hatred for the crimes of the Ba’ath regime in Iraq making Iranians to share posts and pictures of the divers on social networking sites, touching off a wave of sympathy on Iranian social media.

    The link found its way to other online pages with users creating their own hashtags – including #hand-tied and #175 – to join fellow online mourners and remember the martyred divers.

    Messages on the painful loss of divers and sympathetic comments for the martyrs quickly went also viral on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.

    Many users started to share old pictures of the divers; even those with ideological and political differences were shocked by the event which prompted them to set aside their beliefs for a while and shed tears for the men who fought with dignity to protect their homeland.


    A piece of design by Abbas Emad Haghi, a graphic designer, was shared on social media in memory of the divers who finally came back home, but not in one piece.

    He wrote a caption under his design which depicts a single diver underwater with the number 175 on his chest. It reads: “When I was working on this design, initially I tied the hands. I got scared. It is horrible to tie somebody’s hands even in virtual world, let alone in reality!”


    A subsidiary of Tehran Municipality’s daily paper Hamshahri (Persian for citizen) and a magazine for the youth, Hamshahri Javan (Young Citizen), dedicated its latest front page to a portfolio about the 175 martyrs where it used ‘Track 175’ as its headline which referred to a recognized 2014 movie, Track 143; the movie narrated the true story of a woman whose only son volunteers to war fronts and goes missing in action. The mother waits years searching for her son believing in his return and finally receives remnants of his son’s corpse after some 25 years. The movie by Nargess Abiar was extensively welcomed by the public.

    A group of Iranian artists, in a spontaneous campaign, paid tribute to 175 martyrs of resistance by publishing photos captioned with heart-rending and touching posts in their memory.

    Mahdi Pakdel, Mahnaz Afshar, Mehrab Ghasemkhani, Rasoul Sadrameli, Hossein Mehri, Aref Lorestani, Amir Mohammad Motaghian and Bhareh Rahnama are among Iranian celebrities who expressed their respect towards all those who sacrificed their lives serving humanity in the name of God.


    Renowned Iranian actress Mahnaz Afshar posted a photo in the caption of which she wrote: “In respect to all who served our country, those who left us and those who remained alive unassuming in their dedication to their country.”

    “Karbala-4, silence, tears and respect,” Iranian film director, screenwriter and film producer Rasoul Sadrameli wrote under a photo he published in his social networking page.

    Former Head of the Cultural and Artistic Organization of Tehran Municipality and a popular religious leader Shahab Moradi also expressed his grief over the painful death of 175 Iranian divers. “The release of the facts on the painful martyrdom of Iranian divers shocked Iranians making them mourn for their lost beloved ones.”


    Ehsan Bakeri, son of one of Iranian war heroes who was martyred in the Iran–Iraq War Mehdi Bakeri, published an impressive note in a magazine. “Once again, martyrs prompted unity and solidarity in the society, which proved Iranians’ dedication to the Islamic Iran.”

    In a move to commemorate the martyrs, Islamic City Council of Tehran announced on Wednesday, May 27, it would review measures for naming a square in Tehran after 175 divers of operation Karbala-4 which was set in 1987 and became the largest battle of the war.

    Public reactions shocked many people and revealed incredible facts. Iranians proved community values are far beyond conventional or media imaginations. Once again they proved they respect their heroes regardless of political inclinations or cultural beliefs and, above all, they proved they have always been united for domestic ‘values.’

  144. Sammy says:

    Refreshing perspectives on iran.ru

    عربستان شیعیان درب می زند

    خانه » اخبار » علم تجزیه و تحلیل

    ولادیمیر آلکسییف,
    اختصاصی برای «ایران رو»

    عبدربه منصور هادی رئیس جمهور یمن در تبعید، ناگهان از ریاض آمادگی خود را برای سازش با دشمنان خود اعلام کرد. وی که به عربستان سعودی فرار کرد، به مذاکرات با قیام کنندگان تن داد در حالی که خودش روز 28 ماه می از برگزاری کنفرانس بین المللی ژنو درباره یمن امتناع کرد تا با حوثی ها دور یک میز مذاکرات ننشیند. هادی در گذشته نیز رسماً برای مذاکرات آمادگی داشت ولی برای حوثی ها و متحدانشان از کنگره مردمی سراسری تحت ریاست علی عبدالله صالح شرط های اجرا نپذیری مطرح کرده و از جمله از آنها امتناع از مبارزه مسلحانه و آزاد کردن اراضی تصرف شده را درخواست می کرد. به نظر می آید که بالاخره عقل سلیم پیروز شده است. ولی واقعیت به این شکل نیست. واقعیت این است که عربستان سعودی به آتش بس فوری با یمن احتیاج دارد تا بتواند نیروهای خود را از جنوب به استان شرقی، محل قیام و شورش شیعیان محلی، منتقل کند. جدیداً از طرف ائتلاف «آزادی و عدالت» شیعیان، «جمهوری الحصا و القطیف» اعلام شد که با پادشاهی وهابی آل سعود مقابله می کند. تا کنون نقشه جدید عربستان طراحی شده و وعده داده شده است که پرچم اهل بیت (خانواده پیغمبر اسلام که شیعیان آن را به فاطمه، علی، حسن، حسین و اخلاف آنها محدود می کنند) بر فراز تمام عربستان بدون سعودی ها بر افراشته شود. این منطقه جدید دربرگیرنده نه تنها استان شرقی عربستان سعودی بلکه امارات، قطر، عمان و مناطق جنوب شرقی پادشاهی سعودی است.

    عربستان سعودی جنگ را می بازد

    ماجراجویی مسلحانه در یمن همانند مداخله سعودی ها در سوریه و عراق، این پادشاهی را به شدت تضعیف کرده است. ریاض که نیروهای 30 هزار نفری خود را در مرز با یمن متمرکز کرد، همه محورهای دیگر را خالی از نیروهای مسلح نمود. در عین حال، نیرو های مسلح عربستان سعودی از ترس شکست ننگین از ورود به سرزمین یمن خودداری کرد. ولی نمی توان نیروها را از آنجا برداشت زیرا حوثی هایی که از بمباران های کشور خود به تنگ آمده اند، به تعرض متقابل پرداخته و در چند قسمت جزیان و نجران وارد سرزمین سعودی شدند. بسیاری از گذرگاه های سعودی منهدم شده و ده ها نفر نظامی کشته شدند. ساکنان مناطق مرزی که بسیاری از آنها اصل و نسب یمنی و شیعه دارند، به عمق پادشاهی و از جمله به ریاض فرار می کنند. حوثی ها در برخی محورها به اندازه 40-30 کیلومتر پیشروی کرده اند. این تهاجم تحت شعار آزادی سرزمین یمنی اشغال شده توسط سعودی ها (که در واقع این اراضی مورد اختلاف است) صورت می گیرد. حتی گفته می شود که حاکمیت یمن باید بر عسیر و نجران احیا شود که آنجا قبایل 2.5-2 میلیونی یمنی یا حدود 1 میلیون نفر اسماعیلی اهل تشیع سکونت دارند. برخی رهبران حوثی ها به اینجا بسنده نکرده و ادعا می کنند که به لحاظ تاریخی در زمان امارت زیدی، مکه و مدینه به آنها تعلق داشتند. در همین شرایط در استان شرقی شورش شیعیان شروع شده است.

    کاسه صبر شیعیان سعودی لبریز شد

    بعد از عوض شدن اخیر حکومت ریاض و کاهش شدید قیمت های نفت، اوضاع داخلی عربستان سعودی بدون یمن هم بسیار اسفناک است ولی در همین حال در استان شرقی دو عمل تروریستی رخ داده است که گویا این اقدام داعش علیه شیعیان بود. ادعا می شود که شعبه محلی داعش – و نه قسمت عراقی آن که پادشاهی به وسیله دیواری که در شمال ساخته شد، از آن جدا شده است – عامل این حمله بوده است. روز 22 ماه می یک شهروند سعودی طی عمل تروریستی انحصاری در مسجد شیعه آبادی القدیح ( در حوالی القطیف) به این انفجار تروریستی تن داد. بنا به اطلاعات رسمی سعودی، 21 نفر کشته و 97 نفر زخمی شدند که در میان قربانیان یک کودک 6 ساله هم وجود دارد. روز 29 ماه می در نزدیکی مسجد شیعیان شهر دمام عمل تروریستی جدیدی رخ داد که بر اثر آن سه نفر کشته و عده زیادی زخمی شدند. بعد از این اعمال تروریستی در استان شرقی عربستان سعودی که عمدتاً شیعه نشین است، قیام علیه آل سعود شروع شد. مردم با پوسترهایی به خیابان ها ریختند که تشکیل جمهوری القطیف و الحصا را اعلام نمودند. برای مثال، بعد از عمل تروریستی در حوالی القطیف قسمت جاده تا دمام مسدود شده و آنها پرچمی با نقش های ائمه حسن و حسین بر افراشته شد (حسن و حسین فرزندان علی آخرین امام راشد هستند که از نظر شیعیان شهید هستند زیرا توسط اهل سنت کشته شدند).

    سازمان ولایت نجد که شاخه محلی داعش است، خود را مسئول این اعمال تروریستی اعلام کرد. اعضای داعش همزمان از پیروان توحید دعوت کردند وصیت حضرت محمد را اجرا کرده و سرزمین حرمین را از رافضین مشرک (که سلفیون و وهابیون عربستان سعودی این لقب را به شیعیان داده اند) پاکسازی کنند. مهمتر آن است که آنها به آزاد کردن سرزمین حرمین از کثافت حامیان آنها یعنی حکام مستبد مرتد (السلول) و آنهایی که اعمال آنها را تزیین می کنند، دعوت کردند.

    به عبارت دیگر، این دعوت به قیام علیه آل سعود بود که در متن مذکور السلول، مادر آن حریف حضرت محمد در مدینه نامیده شدند که به عنوان مظهر شخص پست فطرتی در آمده است که اسلام آورده ولی با قبایل یهودی مدینه علیه حضرت محمد توطئه می کرد. آنهایی که اعمال آنها را تزیین می کنند، بخشی از روحانیون وهابی هستند که از خاندان سعودی پشتیبانی می نمایند. این دعوت داعش چیزی جز شعار «بهار عربی» به رسم عربستان با مشارکت داعش، نیست.

    عجیب است ولی شیعیانی هم در این کار شرکت کردند که در خاک عربستان زندگی کرده و به این اعمال تروریستی واکنش درستی از خود نشان دادند. آنها این کار را به عنوان ماحصل تبلیغاتی مذهبی وهابی و سلفی تعبیر کردند که در طول مدت موجودیت دولت سعودی ادامه دارد. شیعیان نه به داعش که به طور پیگیرانه طرح سیاسی سلفی – وهابی را اجرا می کند که طی ده ها سال تحت سرپرستی سعودی ها برای مناطق مختلف جهان اسلام طراحی می شد بلکه به خود سعودی ها اعتراض می کنند. آنها بدین وسیله اراضی خود را از مناطق سنی نشین جدا کرده اند. بنا به اطلاعات رسماً اثبات نشده، شیعیان عربستان سعودی و داعش مشغول رایزنی های محرمانه درباره تقسیم عرصه های نفوذ هستند. ولی بنا به فرضیه دیگر، سرویس های ویژه سعودی که از این تماس ها با خبر شدند، علیه شیعیان عمل تروریستی ترتیب دادند تا دشمنی آنها را با داعش تحریک کرده و مذاکرات درباره تقسیم پادشاهی و درآمدهای نفتی آن را مختل نمایند……..

  145. kooshy says:

    تاریخ یعنی هویت / فتح‌الله مجتبایی

    شما اگر تاریخ نداشته باشید، هویت ندارید. این سیاستی بود که دول استعمارگر به‌کار گرفتند و کوشیدند از مللی چون ما، تاریخ‌زدایی کنند. یکی از کوشش‌هایشان این بود که رابطه‌ نسل جوان ما را با تاریخ گذشته خود قطع کنند. وقتی ملتی رابطه‌اش با گذشته‌اش قطع شد، موجود سردرهوایی خواهد بود که هر کاری می‌توان با آن کرد. هر ملتی اگر تاریخ نداشته باشد، ملت نیست و در دنیا حق حیات ندارد. ببینید آمریکا که ٥٠٠ سال از کشف آن می‌گذرد، مدام می‌خواهد برای خود تاریخ بسازد؛ مقدار زیادی از تاریخ انگلستان را برای خود برداشته است. هر ملتی بخواهد در این دنیا زندگی کند، باید تاریخ داشته باشد. ما اگر می‌خواهیم هویت داشته باشیم باید تاریخ داشته باشیم و آن را به جوان‌ها بشناسانیم. اگر جوان‌ها تاریخ را بشناسند، دیگر نمی‌توان فریبشان داد. ملتی را می‌توان به استعمار کشید که خودش را نشناسد. اگر خودش را بشناسد نمی‌توان با آن شوخی کرد. برای یک ملت شناختن تاریخ خودش از واجبات طرازاول است، شبیه یک آدم؛ اگر آدم حافظه نداشته باشد آدم نیست، تاریخ یک ملت هم حافظه‌ آن ملت است؛ همان‌طور که برای یک انسان، حافظه‌اش مهم است؛ برای یک ملت هم حافظه‌اش مهم است. این حافظه تاریخ و فرهنگ است. اگر نداشته باشد، در هوا پرواز می‌کند. یک باد می‌تواند به هر طرف ببردش. اما اگر ریشه داشته باشد، نمی‌توان تکانش داد. البته آنچه اهمیت دارد، تاریخ‌سازبودنِ «تاریخ جامع ایران» است. به بیان دیگر، خودِ این اثر می‌تواند اشخاص را ترغیب کند به دنبال تاریخ ایران بروند. ما هنوز معنی تاریخ را نفهمیده‌ایم. این اثر می‌تواند کمک ‌کند دانشجویان و جوانان ما بروند و سعی کنند تاریخ خودشان را بشناسند. این خود دریچه‌ای باز می‌کند که به هر حال تحصیل‌کرده‌های ایران، به این کتاب نقادانه نگاه کنند و ببینند چه چیزهایی کم دارد و چه چیزهایی از حقیقت منحرف شده است تا بدین‌سان، یک جریان انتقادی ایجاد شود و از این طریق، این جریان، به مردم کمک خواهد کرد تا نسبت به تاریخ‌شان هوشیار شوند و به دنبال تاریخ خودشان بروند و آن را عمیقا و تحقیقا بشناسند.

  146. BiBiJon says:

    Kooshy says:
    June 15, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    Just to add my two cents ….

    Of all the attributes of the ‘system’, the one that I think counts the most is that a clear majority of the population regard it as ‘their own’, and are convinced it is responsive to their wishes. For a clear sign of this public sentiment of ‘ownership,’ counterintuitively, I point to the events of 2009. Of all the student riots, labor disturbances, etc. over the years what brought hundreds of thousands to the streets protesting? And, what made the hundreds of thousands return to their normal lives? The charge of election rigging brought them out, and the proof that there had been, and could not be election rigging on a determinative scale, sent them back home.

    In an empirical way the 2009 ‘green revolution’, proves the public’s attachment to a participatory political system, which adds to other evidence such as routine high voter turnout at national elections, and various public opinion surveys such WPO’s.

    That the majority want the system to be guided by Islamic principles, there is also no doubt, in part because of Iran’s adversaries’ sheer effort at demonizing the ‘Islamic’ aspects of IRI.

  147. BiBiJon says:

    Well, not so much “In an empirical way” but certainly in a dramatic way.

  148. pragmatic says:

    @ Hooshy,.

    His excellency president Dr. Rouhani was aware of all the negotiations at the time you mentioned. BTW, in those debates Dr. Velayati (another patriotic solder) nicely pinned your candidate Dr. Jalili (Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi candidate after all the fuss about Lankarani) All the decisions and roadmap in regards to nuclear issues were advised by Rahbari and his old wise friend Ayatollah Rafsanjani to our team.

    In this coming parliament elections you’ll see kinds of Khoochikof, Rasaie, MP3, and Bazrpash won’t make it and even “Mr.Farhanghestan” is on the edge of making it.

    کنایه تند آیت الله هاشمی در مورد «سازنده بودن تحریم ها»، خطاب به چه کسی بود؟ / «تحریم ها پدر مردم را درآورده ، چطور به نفع ماست؟»

  149. nahid says:

    یعنی چی تحریم کمر مردم رو شکسته؟؟؟
    جلو واردات رو بگیرید و از تولید کننده داخلی حمایت کنید تا هم اشتغال ایجاد بشه هم رونق اقتصادی.

    از اون طرف میگن تحریم کمر مردم رو شکسته ازین طرف ب ام و 3 میلیاردی وارد میکنن. چرا دولت جلو واردات کالاهای لوکس و غیر ضروری رو نمیگیره؟

  150. fyi says:

    nahid says:

    June 16, 2015 at 10:03 am

    In Korea, for years there was a campaign – starting in elementary schools to buy “Made in Korea”.

    You could not even bring in a set of China dishes from Japan – let us say.

    All such items were restricted and heavily taxed.

    Today, Koreans buy only Korean products because they find them superior – even to the Japanese products (excepting automobiles.)

  151. James Canning says:


    I very much doubt that David Cameron and Angela Merkel were seeking the overthrow of the government of Iran. Or that they see that government as somehow lacking legitimacy.

  152. kooshy says:

    For many years since the Iran Iraq war I was always worried and on many occasions I wrote here of a deepening and real street level conflict between Shieh and Sunni. From what I heard and what I had read that concern continued till second year of Syrian crises. From there on, seeing the inability/ incapability of Americans and their clientele European states to mobilize the Arab Sunni street in a meaningful way against the Shieh of western Asia made me hopeful and less worried of a real street level Shieh Sunni conflict.

    The Americans in their effort to elevate this traditional divide from a paid mercenary level conflict to a real street level inter sect fight with all the help they required from their European, Israeli and Arab client states, including all mercenaries, weapons, logistic support that money can buy, they still failed measurably to the point it was becoming dangerous to destabilize their regional clientele likes of Turkey, Jordan and KSA.

    The main reason for failure of this policy was the Shieh clergy leadership all over the western Asia, which unlike the Sunni Arab is not as divided and possesses a much better intertwined grass route network of mobilizing the ever loyal Shieh population to defend their passions and beliefs. With that in mind I don’t see that the Americans will have much chance and means to make any meaningful changes to western Asia’ geopolitics.

  153. ordinary says:

    @fyi and @smith

    While debating:
    – Let’s not assume you are more scientifically productive than the person in the other side of your debate.
    – Let’s not assume your other side has not invented at least one or a few equally essential devices, which you frequently listed in your examples, or he does not understand the value of productivity.
    – Let’s not smear or evade.
    – Let’s not feel too righteous.

    Additionally, you guys are not polite Iranians yourselves to jump on naming others. It is not a lot of work to collect sample of your sentences categorically calling moslims names or liking such fellow Iranians on this site, animals!

    If we Iranians are to shape up we must take a good look at ourselves before understanding why “… we are in this mess”.

  154. ordinary says:

    @Bussed-in Basiji

    Bibi jon,

    Pragmatic describes a view many Iranians still debate. In this Pragmatic served you a punch you should accept.

    And, pick on Rehmat was not warranted.

    All angles we see in these debates are important.

  155. Nasser says:

    From Graham Fuller’s blog:

    “In essence, this is transition away from a “unipolar moment” –after the fall of the Soviet Union when we became the world’s sole superpower—into an increasingly multipolar world. Yet many in Washington don’t seem to have grasped this shift, although President Obama, to his credit, seems partially to have done so.

    We are thus entering a very dangerous period. America thinks it still has the right to act as sole global superpower, flying in the face of realities in playing chicken on the doorsteps of Russia and China—and worrying even our allies who do not support such actions.”


  156. fyi says:

    ordinary says:

    June 16, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    Please supply an example.

  157. kooshy says:

    US’ devilish satanic government is the prominent leading state sponsor of terrorism in the world-

    America Siding With ‘Terrorists’ Like al-Nusra? It’s Not A Conspiracy Theory
    By Robert Fisk

    Intelligence reports to the French government have been recording US air strikes against Isis that have avoided endangering positions held by al-Nusra. When Isis arrived in its thousands to assault Palmyra last month – for the most part, in broad daylight – not one US plane appeared in Syrian skies. And all this when US pilots have been returning from almost 75 per cent of their missions against Isis with bombs still on board because they couldn’t find targets.

    You don’t have to be a reporter, let alone a conspiracy theorist, to see the warning lights around the “war on terror” story in Syria. Because some of the terrorists are soon going to be our terrorists – as long as they fight the even more horrible terrorists and the Assad terrorists at the same time. All they need is more cash and more weapons. And I bet you they’ll get them, courtesy of the ol’ US of A. Just don’t mention the word conspiracy


  158. Rehmat says:

    Bussed-in Basiji – Judging by your Jewish Hasbara F***K language – It seem what I said was truth and no ‘conspiracy theory’.

    Ahmadinejad is not as much “history” as that Zionist pig, known as Theodor Herzl.

  159. Rehmat says:

    On Thursday, Pakistan government ordered Islamabad police to shut-down office of the London-based Save the Children charity. It also ordered all its foreign employees to leave Pakistan within next two weeks.

    Pakistan’s government took the decision on recommendation from Pakistan’s intelligence agency ISI. The agency claims that the NGO is conducting spying mission in country’s Balochistan province, which long has been on the US-Israel radar.

    Pakistan’s interior minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali claimed on Friday that several NGOs working in Pakistan work for the interests of the US, Israel and India.

    Many analyst believe that despite NGO’s commendable work in helping children, mostly victims of western wars on third world countries, the Save the Children, has a political agenda too.

    Judging by Washington’s reaction, it seems the NGO must have working links with CIA, MI6 and Mossad. According to AFP Washington warned Islamabad on Friday that it was only hurting itself after Save the Children was expelled for working against the country.

    In 2012, the government expelled the expat staff of Save the Children, which has worked in Pakistan for over 35 years and employs 1,200 Pakistanis. Pakistani doctors have long been suspicious of foreign and local medical staff attached with the NGO of using fake vaccination injections which were harming young children in remote areas of Pakistan. In 2011, even the France-based Médecins Sans Frontières, an international medical aid group accused the NGO of using these injections as a cover-up for CIA activities in Pakistan and many other countries in the world.

    The Save the Children has been producing faked documentaries over the plight of children in Syria, Sudan, Libya and other countries for CIA to justify West’s “humanitarian” wars against anti-Israel regimes. The NGO was banned in Syria, Sudan and Libya ahead of West’s ‘regime change’ wars in those countries. Now, it works in Syria’s bordering countries, Turkey, Jordan and Israel to exploit the Syrian children killed and injured by the ISIL and other pro-Israel rebel groups.

    The Save the Children is headed by Justin Forsyth, a British Zionist diplomat who held top posts during country’s two pro-Israel and Islamophobe prime ministers, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair. Malaysian international court declared Tony Blair WAR CRIMINAL a few years ago. Now, he is appointed to lead Europe’s largest Jewish lobby group.

    Last year, Justin Forsyth honored Tony Blair with NGO’s Global Legacy award.

    Last year, UK’s ex-ambassador to Uzbekistan exposed the evil face of the Save the Children – a 176 million pounds annual charity.


  160. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Boro barye amat dua kon. When you started being biadab and bitarbiat, don’t cry when somebody tells you to fuck off in response. Apparently you are too stupid to understand this.

    You are also too stupid to understand that criticizing Hashemi or Rouhani does not necessarily mean defending Ahmadinejad- whom I have criticized on this forum before you showed up. In your paranoid world it might, but in the world of those who try to think according to the rules of logic they don’t.

  161. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    You fail to understand the difference between Zionist and “crypto-Jew”.

    Please stop linking your personal website in every post, it’s very “biadab”.

  162. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    That fact that many Iranians are deluded about the nature of the relationship between Iran and US doesn’t mean I or anyone has to accept that delusion.

    Also pragi-joon is rehashing old bullshit form Hashemi’s time about diplomacy which didn’t even work then.

    At the end of Hashemi’s term Akbar Shah himself was wanted by interpol- this is the definition of diplomatic failure!

    Khatami continued the same bullshit and the result was “axis of evil”.

    No azizam, pragi-joon is a mohre sukhte of those two admins desperately trying to find meaning after all the bullshit he believed in and was indoctrinated about is falling apart. Instead of understanding that he and others went the wrong path, he’s just biadab to Ahmadinejad and others he doesn’t like domestically. That’s why I will keep telling him to fuck off until he stops being biadab.

    Rouhani and Zarif unfortunately went the same path and are now stuck in goh because America wasn’t been so forthcoming as they believed- BELIEF being the operative word here- after the bullshit promises they gave to people during the elections and after the bullshit linking of economic problems and there resolution to Iran’s relationship to US.

    Again do many Iranians falsely believe that resolving the problems with US is going to resolve “water problems” (as Rouhani said) and “marriage problems” (as Younesi said)? Maybe. I don’t have to go along with something that I think is khariat even if many people think so, right?

    What pragi represents is a fundamentally false belief that has existed among some people since the beginning of the revolution which is that the world can be peaceful and that we can all live happily with each other of we just smile a lot and come to a win-win…you the know the bullshit.

    There is nothing empirically in the history of nations that supports this view, it is a delusion, like little children believing in unicorns.

    There is nothing in the history of the behavior of the US and west towards Iran that would support this.

    On the other hand the overwhelming empirical, historical evidence is in favor of confrontation and the desire of US and western elites to dominate Iran economically- which requires them to try dominate Iran politically. This is done either through direct imperialism, through stooges like during Pahlavi, or through agents such as Rafsanjani or well-intentioned fools like Rouhani and Zarif.

  163. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    I’ve told you not to comment on the war or martyrs. What you don’t understand- because you are a coward who ran away during the war- is that we will do what they did again, again, again and again for our beloved homeland- which you abandoned- if it is necessary.

    So no, not “never again”- “again, again and again whenever it’s necessary”.

    Now go play with your “inventions”.

  164. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Also notice his emphasis on Iran-Saudi relationship- no mention of Yemen, Daesh, takfiris…very suspicious.

  165. Amir says:

    BiBiJon says:
    June 16, 2015 at 8:15 am

    It’s almost imopossible to convey emotions in written statements, but consider my question in the most non-threatening possible why:
    1. If abusing a group for their identity (cultural habits, religious beliefs, traditions, etc), makes them “entrenched” in their beliefs, why wouldn’t it compel them to part with their beliefs?

    If the answer is something along the line of “determination to resist and response to pressure drives people towards their primordial and sub-conscious beliefs” (I mean people wan to resist, so they attach greater importance to the focus of dispute, as a rallying cause, so to speak), I’d ask what would drive individuals to resist in the first place, instead of capitulation?

    And surrender in the face of superior force is all too common, and supposedly has an evolutionary “value” (advantage).

    2. Emam Khomeini once asked academicians, mystics, jurists, Ulama and sociologists to explain how so many young Iranians voluntarily went to war and showed almost unbelievable courage, and their wills could be compared to those of consumed devotees, and they had been raised in a society, before the Revolution, that was devoid of such values.

    The question was posted about your last couple of sentences, starting at “That the majority want the system to be guided by Islamic principles …”

  166. pragmatic says:

    At least he added joon to our names. It is a good step. I’m happy about it. I am certain we won’t see a revulsion in him soon. Sir! Using slurs and profanities won’t convey your viewpoints. Where did I use slurs like you? Two out of ten words you use is F…this F..that. Once again you used the pulpit to write bunch of nonsense. The funny thing is that you and your team here have closed your eyes to those eight years. One of your subordinates here just wrote that all the luxury cars and…are imported during his excellency Dr. Riuhani! Nonsense, it all started during the previous president. Why I say you masterminds distort the facts!

    Awaiting your slurs.
    Thank you.

  167. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 16, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    Would this tube keeping things dry, count: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q18_s-nuPB0/SusaDTRWa3I/AAAAAAAAApU/cqrgoX0uPsY/s1600-h/auto_20pee.jpg

    It works fine on principle of fluid mechanics and gravity. At least for half the humanity.

  168. Amir says:

    @ pragmatic
    1. I read an analysis (on Rajanews.com, which you don’t like, and you have your reasons) three days ago (which has been removed from the site, strangely) so I couldn’t provide the link said that while bashing Ahmadinejad was initially a very useful move, first it has lost its effectiveness (you clearly still remember everything vividly, but people in general have short attention spans) and second
    has prodded up Ahmadinejad as an actual alternative to Rouhani.

    Let me elaborate on that, for my self (I like to talk to myself): Rouhani’s staff and associates have been juxtaposing their positions to those of Ahmadinejad so frequently that people are seriously considering Ahmadinejad as the opposition bloc/ faction/ party; his actual political capital had been severely diminished, especially during the second term of his term, and increasingly during last year or so; I don’t think if it is wise for Dr Ahmadinejad to seek another term, or if that is good for the state (country, Revolution, etc), or if he would sincerely do his job, or abuse the power, but I think some people are still very much favoring him over others, and others opposing Rouhani’s policies (which might be necessary and useful in the long-term, I don’t know) would find an alternative in Ahmadinejad.

    Again, this wasn’t my thought, I saw it somewhere else, and I really liked it. The link was removed so I couldn’t cite the article properly; I’ll try to find the author’s name as soon as possible.

    So, I think even if you are 100% correct, your tactic is counter productive (this will inflate Ahmadinejad’s base).

    And very hypothetically (I mean no disrespect, or personal attack, or anything, I’m just curious), if in 96 Dr Rouhani wouldn’t get re-elected, and let’s say, hypothetically, someone like Dr Jalili (I know! But فرض محال که محال نیست) becomes president (in my dream, I know!), would you think that was a fraudulent election?

  169. Smith says:

    Seriously. What kind of people can think and investigate such a thing: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0110141

    Only the kind who are able to independently question and explore. Those endeared to their cults and rituals are condemned to suffer. Whether with negotiation or without.

    And no, there is no conspiracy. It is pure science.

  170. pragmatic says:

    Dear Amir,

    Allow me to thank you for your polite post. I appreciate it. You are a gentleman.

    I will first answer your last question? With all due respect, in your question you assumed that I have thought the 1388 election was a fraud! Have I ever said that? No, I have not, however, my thoughts on that election is rather different from both sides. If a day I feel like sharing it, I’ll do.

    You wrote:
    Amir: ” bashing Ahmadinejad was initially a very useful move, first it has lost its effectiveness (you clearly still remember everything vividly, but people in general have short attention spans) and the second has prodded up Ahmadinejad as an actual alternative to Rouhani”.

    Pragmatic: Firstly, you should really question the reason behind rajanews deleting the post?! As you indicated the article was pro Mr. Ahmadinejad. BTW, rajanews, which is owned by Elham’s wife is pro Mesbah and his thoughts. They are very good at distorting facts. I have been reading their articles for more than six years. The real fact is that Ahmadinejad does not have the base, he once had in the beginning of his first presidency. Merely due to loss of credibility amongst the lower income people of society. As you might have heard the new organization named YEKTA, which is an alliance of his ministers and managers, and vividly they announced that they are not in touch with Ahmadinejad! This is true or not, the future will tell. But in my opinion, it’s a trick. But why? If he has so much supporters then why fooling around? This was just one example. Look at his team, 3 are in prison (BZ blossomed in his tenure), there are others who are watched closely and in due course they’ll be called to answer certain questions.

    Are you a fair person? I somehow believe you are. Out of frankness what kind of an economy did Dr. Rouhani inherited? How long is it going to take his experienced administration to fix all the problems, with all the sanctions still in place? Just a reminder from ex president ” The sanctions are like teared paper”.

    Even if we presume he enters the next election, he will lose. People are sick and tired of his way of thoughts! Even if Dr. Rouhani does not get elected, Ahmadi won’t either. What I see is that he won’t even enter the election. We shall see in this coming Parliament election. If the majority of Paydari and hard core Osolgharas are not elected, then put your money on Rafsanjani and Jamaranies in the next presidential election.

    I have two questions, which I appreciate your reply to me:

    1) Why is Khatami blocked? FYI, as much as I do not agree with Ahmadinejad I do not agree with Khatami (believe it or not). Thus, this is not a biased question.

    2) Why is he still popular? I really like to know.

    Last but not least, in my other post the other day, I said Ahmadinejad was GW Bush of Iran. What did Obama inherited? Rouhani the same!

  171. M. Ali says:

    Must suck to be brown and wish you were white.

  172. M. Ali says:

    Does anyone know why the negotiations are taking so long? I don’t think it’s just because the negotiations are “hard”, I think there is a political reason for it. Is it because both sides want to give up things one by one so that their opposition get used to it, when they go to the next step? (for example, in Iran, it seems everyone has forgotten about the limits that they agreed on and are not focused on the military access dimension).

    From Iran’s side, maybe the government needs to stretch it a bit to get to the Parliamentary elections?

    What do you guys think? 2 years of talks seems way too long. I bet peace talks after a war takes much less time.

  173. pragmatic says:

    رسید مژده که تحریم نخواهد ماند
    گرانی نماند و تورم نخواهد ماند

    چو گشت حاضر جواب پنج به علاوه یک
    که تا ابد ایران هم بی جواب نخواهد ماند

    تو پندار که یک مشت احمقند انان در پی جواب
    که هر درد تا ابد بی درمان هم نخواهد ماند

    جواب ما عیان شود این روزها به روی همه
    جواب شش است و جز این هم نخواهد بود

  174. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali,

    In Iran it’s because Rouhani and Zarif would have to admit that they were not successful in coming to terms with kad-khoda and this can’t be done before majlis elections.

    But anyway, Rouhani and this government have become very unpopular because of not keeping promises, inflation of real prices and a lot of the stupid things that Rouhani has said like the whole thing about our drinking water being dependent on lifting of sanctions.

    You know Shias of Imam Hussein (a.s.) are a little sensitive on the subject of being threatened with lack of water and Haj Agha dahan-lagh has apparently forgotten this.

  175. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Just look at the felan-sherhaye that he is writing…”pathetic” is more appropriate than “pragmatic”.

  176. pragmatic says:

    If you don’t know the following sites are the most read in Iran:


  177. pragmatic says:

    why are you so upset? Are you a punk? OMG, take your pills dude!!

  178. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Akbar Shah: wanted by Interpol and German police.

    Khatami: After he spread his legs and let US do whatever they wanted, Iran was called “axis of evil”.

    Your suggestions are dangerous for Iran’s national interests. Interestingly they are very similar to the Saudi line on Iran.

    Oh yes, I forgot your aziz Khatami-joon was sitting “humbly” crossed-legged at the feet of malun Saudi king Abdullah.

    Spreading for the US and Saudi: that’s why he’s blocked and if you don’t understand this, vaqan khari.

    You have tantalized us many times with “I’m out!”.

    Now would be a good time to fuck off.

  179. pragmatic says:

    Deeb Damini,

    Aghleh kol- Obviously you can’t read, or if you read you don’t comprehend. I don’t like Khatami and I don’t know where you going with your nonsense. Why are you so rude?!

    Once again, you don’t have to use profanities to convey your message! Everyone should accept and concede what you write? Easy young fellow, I am perplexed at the anger you have towards everyone whose opinion is different from yours. Even if they are wrong or stupid, you don’t have the right to sue slus!! You act like you are the principal of this site, keep telling everyone, i.e rehmet don’t post, fyi get out, pragmatic F-off!! Easy dude!
    Don’t read our comments. Have you heard anyone else here asking you to leave?

    Ey baba, hey fohsh mideh! vagean bitarbiyati!!

  180. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali,

    His delusions are kinda funny. I mean liking Rafsanjani after all this.

    Maybe he should volunteer to do the time and 50 lashes instead Mehdi-joon as a sign of his devotion.

    No mention of all the shit Rafsanjani crime family has committed in all these years, no mention of Saudi crimes, western crimes. Hey better to post felan-sher, right?

    Well they say Akbar Shah pays well. How dumb of us not to get some of that crime money.

  181. M. Ali says:


    What do you think if the government forces the Parliament or Rahbar to stop a bad deal, and then indirectly tell the people that all the problems with their lives are because they weren’t allowed by others to remove the sanctions?

    For the past 2 years, the narrative has been this:

    1) Everything bad is due to sanctions.
    2) Nothing can be done or improved unless sanctions are removed
    3) We, the government, will remove these sanctions
    4) Ergo, your lives will soon be better
    and then the deal will be stopped by Leader or Majlis, and therefore,
    5) Don’t blame us, we tried to help you, blame…

  182. pragmatic says:

    If i write I like Hashemi that is a profanity? If I say Ahamadinejad didn’t do anything good for us, that is a profanity? But look at yourself. You are a funny yet estrange person!
    I am not going anywhere dude! So get use to it. And if you think you can allure us to be like you: KHOOR KHOONDI

  183. Amir says:

    pragmatic says:
    June 17, 2015 at 3:38 am

    You are most welcome.

    First, I was trying my best not to imply that you thought 2009 elections was fraudulent; you had mentioned (I deduced this) probably his ballot numbers were inflated (artificially increased) to give a more secure position to nuclear negotiators; that’s debatable but by no account I meant what you thought I meant; all in all, I remember “some” people who hadn’t voted for a very long time and they voted in 2009 for the first and last time to oust Ahmadinejad, and when that failed they were most frustrated.

    All I meant was that if your desired outcomes wouldn’t happen, what would you do? I assume you wouldn’t throw a tantrum.

    Second, the article on Rajanews.com wasn’t precisely pro-Ahmadinejad; it was an invited article, by a young sociologist of who I hadn’t heard. The prominent point that I wanted to drive home was this: Ahmadinejad didn’t have much chance 2 years ago, everyone was saying something against him یکی که از اسب میافته همه بهش لگد میزنن but as Rouhani hasn’t been able to make good on his economic promises, Ahmadinejad is gaining traction as an alternative to Rouhani.

    Just think about it! Ahmadinejad expressed himself as anti-Hashemi, and that sold back then. If Rouhani’s team persists in reminding everyone that Rouhani is everything that Ahmadinejad isn’t.

    A lot of the things that you said don’t have an answer: politics is messy. About yekta I had always thought that Ahmadinejad doesn’t want to limit himself to Principalists and Hezbollahis; he is more interested in popular support. I mean, not only Principalists want to distance themselves from Ahmadinejad, and Ahmadinejad has always said that he isn’t a Principalist either. So … it’s complex.

    About the economic situation, I don’t know much about the root causes of problems, but it “appears” that currently the most acute problem is financial (liquidity and credit); there is a deep recession, and people’s purchasing power has been greatly diminished, so if government attempts to import consumer good, food, etc to “manage” the market, recession would get worse. If banks provide credit to manufacturers they have to do the same for consumers, because people can’t buy goods at current prices, even if producers could provide them. Supporting domestic products is good, patriotic, and Vajeb (as the Leader said in an speech a couple of months ago), but I can’t support automakers, because I don’t have enough money to buy a car.

    My point is, our economic woes are rooted in market economy policies, which permit an auto parts maker out-source his production, which coupled with exchange rate hikes results in quadrupling the price of a car. A car which parts are 100% produced in Iran. You could ask yourself how on earth do sanctions have an effect on KIA pride’s price.

    Your question about Khatami needs another post.

  184. pragmatic says:

    Deeb: can you tell me who in this regime you accept? Who do you think has done well thus far?
    Come on? Let’s have a debate? But control your anger.

  185. M. Ali says:

    Amir, can I add something to your post,

    ” About yekta I had always thought that Ahmadinejad doesn’t want to limit himself to Principalists and Hezbollahis; he is more interested in popular support. I mean, not only Principalists want to distance themselves from Ahmadinejad, and Ahmadinejad has always said that he isn’t a Principalist either. So … it’s complex.”

    I think that has always been Ahmadenijad’s real strength, and why he has been able to get votes that made no sense to his competitors. People tried to think of him in a simple category, usually a Conservative Hardliner, but then he’d fall out with Larijani or have conflicts with Clerics, and it wouldn’t fit the narrative. Or they’d think his only support was low income peasants who were bought using potatoes and basijis, but you’d have people from different segments supporting him.

    So, let me explain this more. One of Ahmadenijad’s main unique selling point is not that he is a Hardliner or Conservative or Principalist but that he sells himself as not being part of the elite. This works again and again, because his opposition does exactly the thing that gives him support. What do you think happens after one after another of his allies gets arrested? He looks like he is being victimized, like the System or Elites or the Kings of Status Quo are punishing him. He looks like he is being bullied. Ahmadenijad has the personality skill to make himself look like the oppressed. And Iranians love supporting the oppressed!

    This is not as easy as it seems. Think about Mousavi and Karoubi. They bought came off as arrogant and hooty-tooty in the 09 elections and they still appeared like that EVEN when they got the house arrest. They weren’t skilled in the art of garnering much sympathy in the long term.

    But people in power underestimated Ahmadenijad before and they are underestimating him again. Why did he support Mashaei for the last president? Do you really think he thought he would be approved? I bet not! If Mashaei was approved, he wouldn’t get votes and that wouldn’t look good for Ahmadenijad. But what better than have his candidate NOT be accepted. Suddenly, he doesn’t look that powerful, he looks weak, and Ahmadenijad can get votes based on looking weak, not on looking powerful.

    This is a rambling post and very off topic (peace, BiB!) but I am fascinated by Ahmedinejad.

  186. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Imam and Agha with the military’s efforts have done well for us.

    Of the “gentlemen” who had executive cabinet power- Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Khatami, Ahmadinejad, Rouhani- Ahmadinejad was the best one which doesn’t mean he wasn’t without faults.

    Mousavi and Rafsanjani are certified US/western mamur, Rafsanjani is also the head of the most powerful crime family in Iran.

    Khatami and Rouhani are well-intentioned fools which can become dangerous if not controlled.

  187. Amir says:

    @M. Ali
    … he sells himself as not being part of the elite…
    Your statement was clever agha, clever indeed. And he showed respect to people; people crave respect.

  188. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 17, 2015 at 1:48 am


    One has to start from somewhere.

    Notice that we have better materials in the world today and those materials enable the creation of systems and things that would have been impractical a 100 years ago.

  189. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 17, 2015 at 1:55 am

    And I was thinking – years ago – that each civilization has a certain cognitive capacity and can understand the world in which it resides based on its own level of intelligence.

    I think all the thitherto existing civilizations reached a certain cognitive level and stayed there – for the most part.

    But the Western Civilization continued to increase its intelligence level and cognitive abilities.

    Now others are learning to do so.

    My question to myself would be how to compute the intelligence level of a civilization, its cognitive abilities?

    May be energy consumption per individual – in analogy with the brain that consumes 25% of human body’s energy?

  190. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 17, 2015 at 3:38 am

    I personally do not find it useful to take sides against this or that former Iranian leader. They came in, they did the best they could, and they left the scene.

    That is all fit and proper as men with different skills, abilities and ideas are given the opportunity to try to steer the ship of state and seek to implement their visions – which partially or in full have been endorsed by the electorate.

    In regards to Mr. Khatami, I am not stating that he has not been popular or is not.

    And undoubtedly, his “Dialogue Among Civilizations” which was privately ridiculed by Axis Powers, Russian, China and India was years ahead of its time and prescient indeed.

    I do not endorse the current ridiculous policy that is preventing a former President of Iran from travelling abroad. What is the meaning of that, is someone afraid that he would defect to France or US for example?

    If so, such people need to ask themselves why, perhaps the fault is in them and not in Mr. Khatami.

  191. Ataune says:

    M. Ali says:
    June 17, 2015 at 5:59 am

    Concerning internal politics,
    as far as the legitimacy of the political system and hence the state herself remains intact, or better empowered, it doesn’t matter how different players joggle the politics of the “nuclear negotiations” inside Iran. The art of the leadership is to keep the balance and to get the optimum outcome from all different tastes of politics. Which I believe it’s managed pretty well.

    As for foreign policy,
    from where I’m sitting, I see a bigger need and a more long-term necessity for the US to come to an “entente” with Iran than the other way around. So, even though the appearances might show otherwise, Zarif’s negotiating team has a better hand to play, therefore a hardball bottom line approach from the Iranian side seems more warranted. This doesn’t mean that they necessarily need to publicly advertise a confident tone but, and specially when the other side is showing some cockiness, it is worth displaying an assertive attitude for the public consumption.

    Again, balancing these “outside” political moves with what is going on inside Iran is the prerogative of the leadership which so far, i.e. for the last 27 years, has been tremendously effective.

  192. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    June 17, 2015 at 10:23 am

    I agree.

    I still remain convinced that in 2007, when US N.I.E. on Iran was leaked, the United States and the rest of the P5+1 had the political cover to make a deal with Iran.

    But they just had to try to wreck Iran, didn’t they?

    The result is ISIS, a new country of “Pure Islam” and a wrecked Syria and Iraq.

    Wonder when Jordan would fall….

  193. Karl.. says:

    Speaking on the jordanian king, have you noticed that he more and more looks and talks like netanyahu?

  194. Ataune says:


    In 2007 US establishment had already realized that any military attack on Iran, predicated in “Axis of Evil” policy speech, was a folly. So the leakage was meant to give the Bush team the cover story to backtrack on the declared policy. The task to setup the “entente” policy was obviously most fit for the next admin.

    I do not believe US strategy anywhere in the world was ever based on “creative destruction”, but in lots of regions “wrecking the place” was, and is, the consequence.

    Since the revolution in Iran the foundation of the US strategy towards her was to undermine and delegitimize by any means necessary the system of governance being built. ISIS, in its inception, is the tool of one such policy: “triangulating ideologically” and consequently isolating and weakening the dynamism of Iran. Jordan, as a protectorate of the US is therefore immune from ISIS. Unless the Hashemite rule becomes useless in the eyes of the US, which is far from the reality now.

    This US strategy towards Iran was built on the basis of a unipolar world perception conceived around the fall of communism in USSR (I would say early 90’s by Indyk and co). It is now hitting hard the wall of reality everywhere in the middle-east, hence the apparent confusion in US policy and tactics.

  195. fyi says:


    An Enemy of Iran speaks:


  196. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    June 17, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    I accept your explanation.

    But the effort to ideologically triangulate Iran did not begin with ISIS, it was in full swing by the middle of 1980s.

  197. Ataune says:


    I will put the date more around early 90s. After 1988 and during the first Bush admin, US moved drastically to contain Saddam which was perceived as being the bigger threat for them. After Saddam defeat in the Kuwait war and when it became obvious that the Soviet retreat from Afghanistan in 1989 is presaging her overall demise, the Clinton admin setup the global strategy mostly towards Iran (Iraq being under control now) which was misnamed the “dual-containment” policy. It was then, when Reagan’s “freedom fighters” were returning back home, that the need for a new tool arose and gave birth to “triangulating ideologically”.

  198. kooshy says:

    Ataune says:
    June 17, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    Very well said and I agree with your analysis except on the consequence of creating such terror jihadi groups like ISIS and ALQ, correct that for now US has the control of ISIS preventing them of fighting and harming her regional clientele like, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, and various Persian gulf mini kingdoms.

    “Jordan, as a protectorate of the US is therefore immune from ISIS. Unless the Hashemite rule becomes useless in the eyes of the US, which is far from the reality now.”

    But IMO, there are two uncontrollable consequences for this US’ of policy of hurting Shieh Muslims at and with the expense of hurting Sunni Muslims, one is what if the Shieh cleverly don’t get fooled and don’t play the game on religious fault line and you don’t be able to mass mobilize the real street Sunni Arabs against your other enemy ( IMO this has already happened), the consequence could become that the extremist Takfiri mercenaries you have hired to destabilize the Shieh resistance (think ALQ 1980), who are supposed to stir things up and inflame the Sunni base against Shieh couldn’t do the job, and as the result make things more disabled and troublesome for your own clientele which you were trying to protect (you read awakening). One visible element of this consequence has surfaced, which is KSA’ direct involvement attacking Yemen, without any other Arab or Sunni Muslim state offering any meaningful help, since disapproval of their own population for attacking a non-aggressive Muslim state can destabilize their internal control.

    The second consequence is what I call the BenLaden blow back, which simply is that they hire these takfiri mercenaries to fight their enemies not only for money paid by their clients, but more importantly they join the fight on ideological jihad against anti Islam. Like in 80’s they loaded up these young Talebs ideologically that they are fighting the communist atheists, who are against Islam and taking and stealing from Muslims, consequentially when that war was over according to OBL the next enemies of Islam where the folks who had hired him in the first place.

  199. Ataune says:


    I don’t see, yet, US being incapable of “uprooting” ISIS. By this I mean if, and it’s a big if I know, the US admin make a political heavy lifting to make the finances and logistics of these groups be cut it will succeed. Once the main pipe is broken ISIS will dry down and fall with a single push. Worse come to worse, if the US, through her proxies, has already lost control of the tool, which I don’t believe being the case, the previous action combined with a robust military intervention, let’s say if Jordan is attacked and incapable of protecting herself, will certainly defeat ISIS.

    For your first scenario, playing with fire, i.e. promoting sectarian extremism, can obviously have noxious consequences in internal politics of countries like Turkey, Egypt or SA: causing internal strife, which is quite possible I should agree with you, but those were not in the scope of my earlier comment. Your second scenario is plausible too but again those blowbacks are acts without big political consequences on the overall policy. They should most of the time be viewed as small imponderables inherent to any aggressive political action. If you deal with them correctly (i.e. not the way the US admin did and exactly the way Iran did after 911 for ex) they will for sure benefit your strategy.

  200. Sammy says:

    This one for James Canning:


    85 child sex crimes recorded every day
    A new study shows that 85 child sexual abuse offences are reported in England and Wales every day.

    The study by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) shows that more than 31,000 sexual offences were recorded in the year up to April 2014, up 8,500 on the previous year.

    The figures reveal a 38% year-on-year increase in reports of sexual assaults against children.

    According to the data obtained through freedom of information requests majority of the victims were aged between 12 and 16.

    Meanwhile, NSPCC chief executive described the revealed figures should be seen as tip of the iceberg.

    “These figures are disturbing and clearly illustrate child sexual abuse is a continuing and widespread problem that needs urgent action…But we know this is still only a fraction of the true number of victims because some endure an agonizing wait of many years before telling anyone – and others never reveal what has happened to them,” Peter Wanless was quoted as saying by the British media.
    The senior policy officer for the NSPCC has urged the government to do more to implement preventative measures to weed out the causes of child abuse and offer support to those who have been abused. He said “our estimate is that there are 50,000 children in the country who need help and support for abuse who are not getting it….

  201. kooshy says:

    Ataune says:
    June 17, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Ataune, I also don’t think the US has yet lost the control over the ISIS, but at the same time and IMO more importantly the US has not been successful in her effort using proxy sunni extremist to widen the inter religion divide between the shieh and sunni
    to a influential clergy mobilized street level inter religion fight. To me that’s more important that utilizing ISIS, and if US can keep control or not.

  202. Kooshy says:


    Sorry now I have little more time to finish what I started.

    The reason I think US regional Sunni client states are more in danger with more possibility of destabilization, IMO is the fallowing.
    The first mistake is policy makers made was: by promoting and creating the extremist Islamic Takfiri proxy groups they naturally unified and empowered the entire shieh community and leadership in Western Asia, including Hzara, and Alawaites and Houties, Logically the shieh are the minority sect and naturally their leadership will unify and mobilize the community to stand to defend the community as whole against the any possible harm from majority sect. If you are going to harm the shieh you shouldn’t take steps to unify them.

    Their second mistake was: by creating the extremist Sunni groups, they further divided the Sunni community to at least 3 different non functional and extremely at odds with each other ( to the point that inter Sunni fight is much wider than the one with Shieh resistance) None has a very wide desirable acceptance in a mining-full determinative way, and all have a very weak venerable base. These three separate Sunni governance ideologies that now are fighting each other before fighting Shieh are:
    1- one that’s based on a very dictatorial, militaristic holding to power at any price and no matter what costs are, like Egypt, KSA, Pakistan, Jordan etc. a traditional US desired clinger state.
    2- one based MB which is not fully accepted and not a full majority and incapable of unifying the Majority of Sunni communities.
    Not very disable to US hegemony but can be tolerated like Turkey. Or Pakistan of Navaz
    3- one based on a vey strict harsh and unjust interpretation of Islam and sharieh which is not functional and cannot govern based on modern needs of Muslims this one is the ISIS. Like us terrorist proxy Khalifs in Libya, and eastern Syria.

    This intersect ideology can’t be glued together with any (like my father use to say) Uho glue, and as matter of fact I am not sure if US feel safe (with regard to Israel
    And KSA) to glue them together, for a risk of containing Iran’s shieh rise.


  203. Kooshy says:

    Sorry I meant to written “the first mistakes US policy makers made
    not IS”

  204. pragmatic says:

    Deeb Damini Azizam,

    مهم‌ترین مسأله که در اسلام مورد توجه قرار گرفته رعایت اخلاق و آموزه‌های دینی است و یکی از راه‌های جلوگیری از تفکر داعشی و سفلی در کشور رعایت اخلاق در سطح عالی است

    It won’t have an effect on you! THUS,
    Awaiting your slurs,

    Pragmatic aka Pathetic

  205. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 17, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    Tell them brother.

    Apologizing is not in their dictionary.

  206. fyi says:



    I wonder if this is an indication of the deal that is made by the Shia Crescent with ISIS.

  207. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Don’t forget old man, you’re the most biadab and bitarbiat on this forum. Just reminding you cause you are a bit confused and have delusions of grandeur about yourself.

    Pathetic, you started the miadabi and now you want to teach us adab and akhlaq. The sooner you fuck off to Jamaran to hide under Akbar Shah’s aba the better.

  208. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    pathetic’s first post from previous thread, the epitome of Islamic adab and akhlaq!

    “Most of your comments (from either side) are pure delusional. Some of you really think that you are working in Iran’s foreign ministry or US state department, or they are reading your comments!

    For those of you that think living in Iran is rosy, I advise you to go there and stay for a year and you’ll see how bad everything is, including the culture, which is a disaster, in every aspect you could imagine!

    The question, is why the great people of Iran have to pay for so long for the wrong decision makings of their politicians? Thank God we don’t have Ahmadnejad in power. A pure populist. Most of the issues we are facing today are his and his teams fault.

    I laugh at those Iranians who are sitting in London, Paris and NY and write comments here. Rest assured they have their cold beer and pistachios are on their side while they are writing their ARAJEEF (BS). You don’t know shit about the culture and what is going on in Iran. The issue is not the nuclear it’s the Iranian youth that are mostly unemployed or a drug addict. Why you geniuses don’t talk about the middle-class that is decreasing in number every month. Talk about the poverty. Talk about the corruption, talk about the women and the girls who sell their body to make the ends meat! Do you know that everyone is trying to cheat the other to earn a living! It’s a catastrophe.

    Hegemony! Hegemony, fuck this shit, how about the kids that are selling tissues in the streets rather than being in school. How about those kids that play tonbak in buses to earn a living! I am so sick of you that are having fun overseas and write solutions for us living in Iran. You are so adamant in not giving a bit in their negotiations with 5+1. Because we lose our hegemony! You have lost it within your own people.

    Lately in here we see that one claps and thanks the other one for the good comment! Comment this! Or I second your opinion, second this! Losers!

    We need peace, we need a better economy, we need jobs, we need work in other major and non-major cities.

    I’m out!”

    Go tell your ameh about adab and akhlaq.

  209. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man, remember you are a racists which is more biadab and bitarbiat than anything I will ever post here.

    And let’s not forget how you hate poor and rural people.

    So we can add nafahm to biadab and bitarbiat as well, good?

    Just reminding you as to why you are biadab, bitarbiat and nafahm because you seem to be showing signs of old age dementia.

  210. Nasser says:

    The War Nerd on ISIS defeat in Tal Abyad.

    “By attacking the Assyrian villages along the Khabour, IS had let its sectarian hatred blind it to basic strategic rules. Islamic State’s top priority should have been to defend and extend its link to Turkey, which runs north from Raqqa through Tal Abyad via Highway 6, and prevent the Syrian Kurds from linking up their “cantons” along the Syrian/Turkish border. If Schlieffen had been an Islamic State strategist, he would’ve said, “Keep the northeastern front strong” on his deathbed.

    Instead, Islamic State had shifted men and vehicles south, to the Tal Tamer front, leaving the northern flank, along the Turkish border, weakened.

    And that’s how the YPG/J was able to take Tal Abyad this week. Once IS’s attack to the south was contained, YPG/J rolled west along the border zone relatively easily. IS has a rep for fighting to the death, but they seem to have lost the will to fight lately, especially when up against YPG/J.”


    – Here’s to hoping this (at least partial) loss of corridor forces ISIS to avoid further needless entanglements with Shias and Kurds and look South towards Jordan where they can find a sympathetic Wahabi audience. Here’s to further hoping the Shia Crescent has the strategic wisdom to get off their high horse and become more conciliatory towards Kurds as well as to come to a hudna with ISIS to encourage it to go South.

  211. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 17, 2015 at 9:58 am

    If I may comment on your question, I would like to say that on a galactic scale comparing energy consumption of different hypothetical civilizations would be useful for example by employing the Kardeshev scale. But ideally such civilizations should not have had any contact with each other and the less intelligent ones having “learnt” to imitate from the superior ones how to expend greater amount of energy than their own intelligence alone would have made it possible. Under such a scheme it would be difficult to separate truly intelligent and self aware entities from philosophical zombies who are imitating the energy use of the intelligent types.

    Within a civilization, like the humans on earth this problem becomes even more acute. Since contact is inevitable between the self-aware types and the p-zombie components of human civilization. For example the inhabitants of UAE desert consuming more percapita energy than most other humans, are simply imitating in excess what the really intelligent people created and invented. Their energy expenditure would not reflect their current intelligence but rather the socio-politico-geological relations within human civilization.

    I would suggest a measuring system which depends on quantifying the capacity for information set gathering, analysis and synthesis would be a better comparative tool. Such a tool should be able to quantify the amount of information a group within a civilization gathers from the Universe (conscious awareness) plus the amount of information it can gather on itself (self conscious introspection) and any new and unique information it can generate based on trans-information and the joint/conditional entropy of all information available to it.

    Theoretically if we assume the material habitat of such a self aware intelligent society be considered in terms of information, then this society would try to benefit itself by hording as much data from its habitat and increasing or decreasing the entropy of this information to benefit itself therefore diverting the natural processes towards its own goals. It would also be continuously using probability of distribution measurement of sorts to look out for its own gaps in knowledge. Perhaps the best way to measure the cumulative intelligence of a society is to look at the size of unique information it is generating and the entropy impact it produces on its surroundings.

    Under such a system the p-zombies can be filtered out, since the p-zombies would crystallize as part of the entropy impact of the really intelligent ones.

  212. pragmatic says:

    Fyi, I was wondering if a day our aghle kol sees ayatollah Hashemi, he would call him akbar shah and a thief and…..? Or is it just sitting behind a computer gives him this power?

    I didn’t know that his real name is hegemony! That’s the only time I used fuck.
    Deebdamini azize del, ammam fadat sheh, your issue is brain conctepation!!
    Dar zemn regime ghazaietu avaZ kun, stop taking alaf, now it’s time for yoonjeh.

    VA akharin gofteman ma ba in jomleh man ke sarvaretam be etmam mirsad, Chun man be to arazel obash migooyam, Boro oonjaie keh misoozeh aab beriz.

    Hala Boro Kenar bezar baad beyad.

  213. Smith says:

    An example of prevalent view in Iranian society over matters of thinking.


    From comment section of news outlet:

    One says: چه جالب است. چرا مهندسين ايراني از اينگونه ابداعات ندارند؟

    The other replies: چون ذهنشون درگیر تورم و حقوق و گرونی و داستانهای مشابه زندگیشونه در اکثر مواقع ابداع ذهن آزاد میخواد

    As if Nikolai Sergeevitch Krylov who demonstrated the importance of chaos in statistical physics and developed his ideas while starving and manning anti-aircraft guns in freezing Russian winter during world war II surrounded by German troops and bombarded by Luftwaffe all the while fearing for his own life under Stalin, means absolutely nothing.

  214. Smith says:

    Another example of prevalent view in Iranian society over matters of thinking and innovation.


    From comment section:

    تصور کنید در ایران به دنیا میامد,میشد یه جوان تحصیلکرده بیکار که افسرده شده

    As if Thomas Addison, Ludwig Boltzmann, Hans Berger, Edwin Armstrong and many other inventors and scientists did not commit suicide because of depression or other reasons.

  215. Amir says:

    Smith says:
    June 18, 2015 at 2:33 am

    Further proof that what you have been asking on this site would most likely materialize by Daeshi Shia Iranians, not “urbane” ones.
    Urbane! Hehe!

  216. Amir says:

    Urbane urbanites are the ultimate cargo-cultists of present day Iran, with tears in their eyes, asking themselves, “God! Could we someday become like Westerners?”

    I’m sorry to deliver the news: no you can’t!

    Wow, I’m sounding like Mr Smith!

  217. Amir says:

    Text-book example of cargo-cult thinking in Iran, see link: http://www.khabaronline.ir/detail/387752/multimedia/picture, in the comments section,
    One khar asking: واقعا چرا اینجور ایده ها فقط اونطرف ظهور میکنه؟ کسی به این موضوع اصلا فکر کرده آیا really why?
    his/ her khar fellow cultist answers: دوست عزیز وقتی این ایده ها به ذهن آدم میرسه که در آرامش باشی. وقتی از صبح بلند میشی تا موقع خواب استرس شغل و گرونی دلار و مواد خوراکی و مسکن و اینده ی تاریک داشته باشیم این چیزا به فکرمون نخواهد رسید.

    Sure! These things will NEVER EVER EVER occur to you.

    Man! Talking this way feels AWESOME! AWESOME!

  218. Amir says:

    I’m sorry for the profanity, I just realized what a mistake it was.

  219. Amir says:

    Amir says:
    June 18, 2015 at 2:57 am

    Well, not profane, but obscene for sure.

  220. Karl.. says:

    Of course, Tony blair elected to help Ukraine regime.

  221. pragmatic says:

    Oh look at your buddies, Mahmood is in good shape and Rahimi for one being in prison has gained some weight, as a matter of fact he looks kind of chubby, overweight.


    Currently Ahmadinejad team has beaten Ayatollah Hashemi’s by three goals to one.
    The goal scorers for A.N.’s team are BZ, MR and B. Good job guys, I hope the next goal scorer is captain Mahmood Modireyat Jahani. The only goal scored by Hashemi’s team was by his famous son MH. Ahmadi is a talented player, who had a great agent. His agent first sold him to municipality of Tehran (a rich club in Tehran) and then he was sold to Team Meli whereat he played for eight years. Currently he is seeking a new team.

    On the serious note do you remember the time prior to WC2006 in Germany where Mahmoud went to TM camp and he was sitting on the pitch. He said don’t worry we’ll do good, Karimi will dribble a few and then he’ll cross the ball and Daie will score. This is exactly the same way he governed, ALLA BAKHTAKI.

    By the way, the only thieves in Iran are Rafsanjani family?

  222. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    No they are not, but they are by far the biggest and most organized ones.

    Like I said, criticizing Akbar Shah doesn’t necessarily mean liking Mahmoud. Again you’re too stupid to understand this.

    Now fuck off please.

  223. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Ignore that a-hole. He actually thinks he came “shame” us into whatever phantasy world he believes in.

    He wouldn’t last a week in a western/Japanese company because he’s an asshole and arrogant and they would kick his ass out.

    Imagine if he was a manager in the real world, instead of just a nerd behind the computer having brain ejaculations. A sado-maso manager of the worst kind.

  224. pragmatic says:

    why don’t eat shit and die.

    Vatanforoosh ahmagh.. Go get laid asshole.

  225. pragmatic says:

    Deeb Damini: You are the biggest idiot here! You don’t know shit about politics. What the F.. is American/japanese shit you wrote? baba tu khayli olaghi, goosleh omadi gav ham dari miri…

    Now fuck off asshole.

  226. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Hahaha…bah-bah…Agha-ye mo-adab, Agha-ye ba-tarbiat ostad-e akhlaq…bah-bah

    After all the shit the Rafsanjani crime family has done, you still support them…you and two-three other guys left in Iran who get money from them.

    You’re fuckin pathetic…

  227. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Closet-case Dawkins wanna-be,

    “Perhaps the best way to measure the cumulative intelligence of a society is to look at the size of unique information it is generating and the entropy impact it produces on its surroundings.”

    Yes, “generating unique information”…Something you have never done in your sorry life.

    How about measuring the amount of cut-and-pasting and plagiarism from others and monkey-moqaleding of westerners that douches like do, leading them to the delusion that are a “genius”- your own words (but in reality just a Persian sandn****r like the rest of us), huh? Would that be a good measure of your mental instability?

    You’re ostad has not- and will never- address the fundamental paradox of western civilization that Michael Mann has pointed to because that would be questioning the god-idols of his cargo cult.

    See how that works douchebag!

    You know for all your hyperventilation about westerners you do a very Iranian thing. I know, that was really insulting wasn’t it? You wanna know?

    You dismiss evidence contrary to your assumptions and you engage in ad hominem attacks on those that have views contrary to yours. Well it wouldn’t be so bad if it was done against bi-savad muleteer cargo-cultist like me but no, you actually dismiss Ibn Sina and Goedel!

    “Fuckin idiot” doesn’t begin to describe you!

    BTW, still waiting for your “unique” definition of “culture”. It’s been months that we have been waiting for you to define the central term in your thesis, asshole.

  228. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Bah-bah I see convicted criminal Faezeh was in attendance as well…was convicted criminal and vatanforoosh Mehdi-joon there as well? Well you know what Islam says about the friends one has and the leaders one follows.

    Like I told you at the beginning, inshallah ba haji o khandanesh mashhoor beshe…unless you are able to somehow unravel the brainwashing/financial dependence you have regarding this famous crime family.

    Mafia soldiers always try to rationalize service to their respective godfathers.

    We reach the same conclusion as before:

    You’re fuckin pathetic…

  229. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Ah yes, convicted criminal Karbaschi is also in attendance…oh is that convicted criminal Atrianfar in one of those pictures? Bah-bah…the company we keep.

  230. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Oh look, Masjed-Jamei former head of Tehran city council who was so fuckin incompetent his own supporters voted to depose him after only one year- was also in attendance. Bah-bah…

  231. nahid says:

    I am surprise that Mehdi hashami is not in that picture, aaaaa

  232. pragmatic says:

    Olagh azizam BiB,
    Mehdi wasn’t there, you fucking moron! You are so pathetic that I want to vomit. You are an imbecile. I think you have an identity issue. Again, go get laid! All your anger is due to lack of sex. The way you write, it definitely depicts that you are a big jaghal, I guess in your neck of the woods, they call it a jaghist, :)))))))))))))))))))))))) ROFLMAO :)))))) As I said before you have a brain constipation, my asshole friend you should start taking yoonjeh.. Listen to me, young man your remedy is a good size tavileh, wherein you could chareed at will…. In your case chareedan circulates your blood and therefore it takes the anger away. Try it cock face.

    Hala boro bacheh digeh hoocelato nadaram.. bayad beram eftari… BTW, do you fast? If you do you shouldn’t jerk off..


  233. pragmatic says:

    اسامی دوازده مرد خبیث کابینه احمدی نژاد به شرح زیر است. همه
    این افراد یا حداقل یک بار زندان رفتند یا منتظر زندان هستند، یا احتمالا
    موقع خواندن این خبر به زندان خواهند رفت:

    محمدرضا رحیمی، معاون اول (اختلاس، دادن رشوه به مجلس، فساد مالی میلیاردی)

    حمید بقایی، معاون دوم (واریز پول دولت به حساب شخصی، دزدی اموال با
    کامیون، جعل اسناد.)

    نعمت الله پوستین دوز، معاون معاون، مدیرعامل شرکت مس (قاچاق پول، اختلاس)

    آزاده اردکانی، رئیس سابقه موزه (قاچاق عتیقه و فروش اموال تاریخی کشور)

    سعید مرتضوی، مشاور رئیس جمهور (اختلاس میلیاردی در تامین اجتماعی و چند قتل)

    عباس امیری فر، پیشنماز نهاد (دادن نسبت الهی به رحیم مشائی و ضمنا فساد مالی)

    مسعود زریبافان، رئیس بنیاد شهید (اختلاس از بنیاد شهید و تامین اجتماعی)

    رویانیان، معاون ستاد نیروهای مسلح (اختلاس مالی، رابط بابک زنجانی و دولت
    احمدی نژاد)

    بهمن شریف زاده، معاون مشائی (دادن القاب الهی به مشائی و اختلاس مالی)

    عبدالرضا داوری، مسئول دفتر احمدی نژاد (تولید دروغ علیه مخالفان و اختلاس مالی)

    علی اکبر جوانفکر، مشاور رئیس جمهور (سوء استفاده از موقعیت دولتی، فساد مالی)

    ملک زاده، معاون مشائی (اختلاس در پرونده ایرانیان خارج از کشور)

    عباس غفاری، معاون بقایی (جن گیری، کلاهبرداری، فساد مالی)

    حالا به اینها اضافه کنید بدهی هشت هزار میلیاردی مشائی و کل مسئولیت این
    جرایم توسط شخص محمود احمدی نژاد، حالا دادن ده میلیارد تومان رشوه مالی
    صادق محصولی برای انتخابات ریاست جمهوری که به دنبالش وی وزیر کشور شد
    بماند. در مجموع این باند خطرناک در مدت هشت سال، صد میلیارد دلار ثروت
    ملی را به قول آقای نوبحت سخنگوی دولت روحانی غیب کردند و این مقدار پول
    کلا در حساب و کتاب های کشور وجود ندارد. یک قلم آقای حمید بقایی بیست
    هزار میلیارد تومان را به صرافی های کشورهای حاشیه خلیج فارس منتقل کرده و
    از تاریخ ارسال از این پول خبری نیست.

    Then Olagh keeps calling his excellency a thief!! Ahmagh even the leader said he has not stolen a dime!! You moron pathetic bitch….

  234. pragmatic says:

    I’m out for entire remdan.

    Bye bye.

    P.S. Deeb respect this month. Thank you.

  235. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 18, 2015 at 1:40 am

    “I would suggest a measuring system which depends on quantifying the capacity for information set gathering, ” – this is an interesting idea.

    I will think about how to measure these that you have enumerated.

  236. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 18, 2015 at 1:09 am

    I think ISIS could be gathering and training its forces for an attack on West Baghdad.

    I think it was a wise move for SAR to move West and consolidate.

    Americans are sufficiently worried; SAR is not dissipating itself pointlessly against ISIS and other Jihadist.

    Anyway, Syrian government has been following a policy of cleaning up the Western part of the country from the rebels for a while now.

  237. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 18, 2015 at 8:43 am

    There are two kinds of leaders in this world; at all levels.

    Leaders who surround themselves with the best people – even those more capable and smarter than themselves and then there are leaders who surround themselves with people who are the second best – taking pain not to have anyone around them who is better than them or superior.

    Mr. Ahmadinejad and indeed all of the Iranian political executives – including the late Dr. Mossadeq – were of the second type; it seems to me.

  238. kooshy says:

    Sounds like the current administration and supporters are getting themselves ready for the blame game and shifting the blame to their opposition in case the negotiations don’t materialize as promised on time and their much promised economic improvement plans stalls.
    آیت الله هاشمی رفسنجانی:مخالفان تخریبی درصدد القای ناکارآمدی مسوولان اجرایی هستند
    تهران- ایرنا-رییس مجمع تشخیص مصلحت نظام گفت: مخالفان تخریبی با استفاده از منابع مالی و رسانه های تبلیغی فراوان خود، درصدد القای ناکارآمدی مسوولان اجرایی کشور هستند.

  239. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 18, 2015 at 9:19 am

    Thank you for your comments.

    Yes I believe that is exactly what Syrian Arab Republic should do, concentrate on consolidating “useful Syria”. They also need to get off their high horse regarding the Kurds, promise them autonomy and have them have the North East and let the jihadists have the desert.

    ISIS can probe here and there on Baghdad but I think they realize they won’t ever take it. It is militarily easier to defend than to undertake a combined arms offensive operation anyway and ISIS isn’t exactly the Wehrmacht.

    Shias need to stop spreading themselves too thin and instead concentrate on consolidating the “useful parts” of Syria and Iraq and let the Sunni extremists and Kurds have their “neighborhoods.”

    By the way, it is not just the Americans that are worried, I recently saw articles in Saudi and Gulf media expressing paranoia and concerns that Iran and her allies don’t seem really committed to fighting ISIS and might see it as a benefit. May God turn their tricks against them!

    In a last ditch effort I fully expect more venal crap like this to follow:

  240. Kooshy says:

    Same old keeping America’ hegemony with some what changing the tools, but should be read

    The New World Order Rebooted
    by James A. Russell

  241. James Canning says:


    I assume you are aware that in Britain it would be regarded as “sex abuse” of children, for men in their 20s to marry girls in their early teens.

  242. James Canning says:


    You actually believe the US “controls” Isis?

  243. Rehmat says:

    Bussed-in Basiji – So who’re you; Zionist Jew or a Crypto Jew?

    As far as Toronto’s chief rabbi Wolf Gunther Plaut – both helped Nazis to commit “holocaust”.

    You seems to be very jealous of my blog. Is it because it shows mirror to the EVILDOERS!


  244. Rehmat says:

    James Canning – How sad.

    The “Jewish Catholic” Sir James Wilson Vincent Savile (1926-2011), missed the chance to marry 400 boys and girls he rapped during 25 years he worked at BBC.


  245. Nico says:

    Very interesting insight about Russian geopolitical understanding.
    The analysis about oil price crash being driven by the US to harm Russia is not without merit

    How and why the Ruble was driven lower. Nikolai Starikov.

  246. Nico says:

    Again very interesting view about current Russian policy in Ukraine.

    Donbass prevents full Ukraine-Russia war. Nikolai Starikov

  247. pragmatic says:


    As a matter of fact, on the contrary, I do not think that high of late Dr. Mosadgh! He was very stubborn and he indeed made too many wrong decisions. But I agree when you are comparing him to Dr. Ahmadinejad, it is write on target, merely cause he is also stubborn, and is dogmatist. When I compare Ghavam and Mosadegh, I am more lenient towards Ghavam. But also there are a different views about Ghavam with regard to Azerbayjan and Pishehvari issue.

  248. Nico says:

    And last but not the least. Russian view about Yemen.
    And why Yemen is truly a weak point in the US geopolicy.

    Yemen – what’s at stake. Nikolai Starikov

  249. pragmatic says:

    ﻣﻦ ﭘﺎ ﺑﻪﺩﻧﯿﺎ ﮔﺬﺍﺷﺘﻢ ﻭ ﻣﺘﻮﻟﺪ ﺷﺪم ﺗﺎ ﻓﺮﺩاﺭﺍ ﺑﺴﺎﺯم,ﺩﺑﺴﺘﺎﻥ ﺭﻓﺘﻢ ﻣﺪﯾﺮ ﺩﺑﺴﺘﺎﻥ ﻣﺎ ﺗﻮﺩﻩ ﺍﯼ ﺑﻮﺩ ﻧﺎﻇﻤﺶ ﻣﺼﺪﻗﯽ ﺑﻮﺩ ! ﻣﻌﻠﻤﻢ ﻓﺪﺍﺋﯽ ﺍﺳﻼﻡ ﺑﻮﺩﺑﻪ ﺩﺑﯿﺮﺳﺘﺎﻥ ﺭﻓﺘﻢ ﻣﺪﯾﺮ ﻣﺎ ﻋﻀﻮ ﻧﻬﻀﺖ ﺁﺯﺍﺩﯼ ﺑﻮﺩ ! ﻧﺎﻇﻤﺶ ﺗﻮﺩﻩ ﺍﯼ ﺑﻮﺩ ﺩﺑﯿﺮ ﺍﺩﺑﯿﺎﺕ ﻣﺎ ﻣﯽ ﮔﻔﺖ ﺣﯿﻒ ﮐﻪ ﻣﯿﺮﺯﺍ ﮐﻮﭼﮏ ﺧﺎﻥ ﺭﺍ ﺍﯾﻦ ﺑﯽ ﭘﺪﺭﺍﻥ ﮐﺸﺘﻨﺪ ! ﺑﻘﯿﻪ ﺩﺑﯿﺮﺍﻥ ﻫﻢ ﯾﺎ ﭼﺮﯾﮏ ﺑﻮﺩﻧﺪ ﯾﺎ ﻓﺪﺍﺋﯽ ﺑﻮﺩﻧﺪ ﯾﺎ ﻣﯿﮕﻔﺘﻦ ﺣﯿﻒ ﮐﻪ ﻣﺼﺪﻕ ﺩﺭ ﺗﺒﻌﯿﺪ ﺍﺳﺖ ﻣﻦ ﺑﻪ ﺩﺍﻧﺸﮕﺎﻩ ﺭﻓﺘﻢ . ﺑﺎ ﮔﺮﻓﺘﻦ ﮐﺎﺭﺕ ﺩﺍﻧﺸﺤﻮﺋﯽ ﻣﻦ ﺭﻭﺷﻨﻔﮑﺮ ﺷﺪﻡ ! ﻫﻤﻪ ﺩﻭﺭ ﻫﻢ ﺑﻮﺩﯾﻢ، ﺍﺯ ﻫﺮﻧﻮﻉ ﺣﺸﻤﯽ ﺩﺭ ﻣﯿﺎﻥ ﻣﺎ ﺑﻮﺩ ﻣﺼﺪﻗﯽ ﻭﺗﻮﺩﻩ ﺍﯼ ﻭ ﭼﺮﯾﮏ ﻭ ﻣﺠﺎﻫﺪ ﻭ ﻓﺪﺍﺋﯽﺩﺧﺘﺮ ﻫﺎﯼ ﺩﺍﻧﺸﮕﺎﻩ ﻣﺎ ﻋﺎﺷﻖ ﺧﺴﺮﻭﮔﻠﺴﺮﺧﯽ ﺷﺪﻩ ﺑﻮﺩﻧﺪ !! ﭘﺴﺮ ﻫﺎﯼ ﺩﺍﻧﺸﮕﺎﻩ ﻣﺎ ﻋﺎﺷﻖ ﺷﺮﯾﻌﺘﯽ ! ﺧﺮ ﺗﻮ ﺧﺮﯼ ﺑﻮﺩ ﺩﺭ ﻣﯿﺎﻥ ﻣﺎ ﺭﻭﺷﻨﻔﮑﺮﻫﺎ !ﮐﺴﯽ ﮐﺘﺎﺏ ﺩﺭﺳﯽ ﻧﻤﯿﺨﻮﺍﻧﺪ . ﯾﮑﯽ ﻣﺎﺭﮐﺲ ﻣﯿﺨﻮﺍﻧﺪ، ﯾﮑﯽ ﻋﻘﺎﯾﺪ ﺑﺮﺗﺮ ﺍﺳﺘﺎﻟﯿﻦ ﯾﮑﯽﮐﺘﺎﺏ ﻫﺎﯼ ﺟﻼﻝ ﺍﻝ ﺍﺣﻤﺪ، ﭼﻨﺪ ﺗﺎ ﻫﻢ ﮐﺘﺎﺏ ” ﻣﺎﺋﻮ ﭼﮕﻮﻧﻪ ﺑﻪ ﻗﺪﺭﺕ ﺭﺳﯿﺪ ” ﻭ ﺧﯿﻠﯽ ﻫﺎ ﻫﻢ ﺍﺧﻼﻕ ﺩﺭ ﺍﺳﻼﻡ ﻭ ﭼﮕﻮﻧﻪ ﺩﯾﺪ ﮔﺎﻩ ﺷﻤﺎ ﺯﯾﻨﺐ ﻭﺍﺭ ﺷﻮﺩﺧﻮﺏ ﯾﺎﺩﻡ ﻫﺴﺖ ﯾﮏ ﺭﻭﺯ ﺩﮐﺘﺮ ﺍﺑﺮﺍﻫﯿﻢ ﺑﻨﯽ ﺍﺣﻤﺪ، ﺍﺳﺘﺎﺩﺟﺎﻣﻌﻪ ﺷﻨﺎﺳﯽ ﻣﺎ، ﺩﺭ ﺳﺮ ﮐﻼﺱ ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ : ” ﭼﻨﺪ ﻧﻔﺮ ﺍﺯ ﺷﻤﺎ ﺍﯾﺮﺍﻧﯽ ﻫﺴﺘﯿﺪ؟ ” ﻫﻤﻪ ﮔﻔﺘﯿﻢ ﺁﻗﺎ !ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ : ” ﭼﻨﺪ ﻧﻔﺮ ﺍﺯ ﺷﻤﺎ ﺷﺎﻫﻨﺎﻣﻪ ﻣﯿﺨﻮﺍﻧﯿﺪ؟ ” ﮐﺴﯽ ﺩﺳﺘﺶ ﺭﺍ ﺑﻠﻨﺪ ﻧﮑﺮﺩ !ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ : ” ﮔﻠﺴﺘﺎﻥ ﺳﻌﺪﯼ ﭼﻨﺪ ﺻﻔﺤﻪ ﺍﺳﺖ ﻭ ﺩﺭ ﭼﻪ ﺑﺎﺏ ﻫﺎﯾﯽ ﻧﻮﺷﺘﻪ ﺷﺪﻩ؟ ” ﮐﺴﯽ ﻧﻤﯿﺪﺍﻧﺴﺖ !! ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ : ” ﻧﺎﻡ ﮐﻮﭼﮏ ﺟﺎﻣﯽ ” ﭼﯿﺴﺖ؟ ﮐﺴﯽ ﻧﻤﯿﺪﺍﻧﺴﺖ !!ﻫﺮ ﭼﻪ ﺍﺯ ﺍﯾﺮﺍﻥ ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ ﮐﺴﯽ ﻧﻤﯿﺪﺍﻧﺴﺖ !!!ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ : ” ﺭﺿﺎ ﺷﺎﻩ ﺩﺭ ﭼﻪ ﺳﺎﻟﯽ ﻭ ﺩﺭ ﮐﺠﺎ ﺑﺪﻧﯿﺎ ﺁﻣﺪ؟ “ﭘﺮﺳﯿﺪ : ” ﻧﺎﻡ ﺍﺻﻠﯽ ﺍﻣﯿﺮ ﮐﺒﯿﺮ ﭼﻪ ﺑﻮﺩ؟ “ﺩﺭ ﺁﺧﺮ ﮔﻔﺖ : ” ﺧﺎﮎ ﺑﺮ ﺳﺮ ﻣﻠﺘﯽ ﮐﻪ ﺷﻤﺎ ﺭﻭﺷﻨﻔﮑﺮﺍﻧﺶ ﺑﺎﺷﯿﺪ. ﮐﺴﯽ ﺍﺯ ﺷﻤﺎ ﺗﺎﺭﯾﺦ ﺧﻮﺩ ﺭﺍ ﻧﻤﯿﺪﺍﻧﺪ ﺍﻣﺎ ﺍﮔﺮ ﺑﭙﺮﺳﻢ ﺍﺳﺎﻣﯽ ﺁﻥ 53ﻧﻔﺮﻋﻀﻮ ﺣﺰﺏ ﺗﻮﺩﻩ ﺩﺭ ﮐﺘﺎﺏ ﺑﺰﺭﮒ ﻋﻠﻮﯼ ﺭﺍ ﻧﺎﻡ ﺑﺒﺮﯾﺪ ﻫﻤﻪ ﺷﻤﺎ ﻧﺎﻡ ﮐﻮﭼﮏ، ﻧﺎﻡ ﻓﺎﻣﯿﻞ، ﺷﻤﺎﺭﻩ ﺷﻨﺎﺳﻨﺎﻣﻪ، ﻭ ﺗﺎﺭﯾﺦ ﺗﻮﻟﺪﺷﺎﻥ ﺭﺍ ﺣﻔﻆ ﻫﺴﺘﯿﺪ . ﺷﻤﺎ ﺑﺎ ﭘﻮﻝ ﺍﯾﻦ ﻣﻠﺖ ‏ ﺭﻭﺷﻨﻔﮑﺮ ‏ ﺷﺪﻩ ﺍﯾﺪ ! ﮐﺴﯽ ﮐﻪ ﺑﻪ ﻣﻠﺖ، ﺗﺎﺭﯾﺦ ﻭ ﻫﻮﯾﺖ ﺧﻮﺩ ﺧﯿﺎﻧﺖ ﮐﻨﺪ ﺑﻪ ﺧﻮﺩ ﺭﺣﻢ ﻧﺨﻮﺍﻫﺪ ﮐﺮﺩ . ﺑﺪﺑﺨﺖ ﺁﻥ مملکتی ﮐﻪ ﺷﻤﺎﻫﺎﺭﻭﺷﻨﻔﮑﺮﺍﻧﺶ ﺑﺎﺷﯿﺪ

  250. kooshy says:

    James Canning says:
    June 18, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    “You actually believe the US “controls” Isis?”

    Gav- no need for a hard “control” as you suggest, all you need to do is build the sewage pipes to where you want to dump your shit, only once in while you end up getting down and dirty opening the clogged pipes.
    You see in this analogy the US/UK are not hand delivering their shit, they just made the plans and put in the pies on how and where to be dumped. Gav BTW this is the “introduction to in and out of everyday political plumbing 101”. For now it looks like the pipes are badly clogged up, without any hope for a good Roto Router the shit will back up to UK and US. Don’t you agree? Like it did back in 2001

  251. pragmatic says:

    Whomever controls ISIS is achieving its long term strategy and position in the region. I personally think the outcome is in our favor. This is the second time I am saying this. Have in mind the only military in the region, which can get rid of ISIS in a span of less than three weeks is Iran. Talking too much about ISIS is a waste of time. It is obvious that they are supported by a strong group/countries which provides them with money and arms, plus the strategy on prevailing their positions. But, sooner or later their employer is going to pull the plug, hence no more support. Then it is the end of ISIS. In the meantime, Asad is gone and we have the Sunni parts of Iraq and Syria combined together. I vividly see the change of ME prior to 2018. I believe Iran and the US do not have any issues with each other on this matter (on the paper it’s the opposite). Both Iran and USA need to work hand-in-hand to stabilize the region.

  252. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 18, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    This fellow refused to join the students strike at Tehran University – a few years before the fall of the Shah.

    His brother was a political prisoner.

    In any case, some students went to him and criticized him for not joining the strike – “given your family’s history” etc.

    His reply was: “It is because of such strikes that a graduate of Technical College (of Tehran University) cannot design and build a single bridge and they have to bring experts from abroad.”

    Well, thank God that those days have at least ended.

  253. Ataune says:


    I think you are a tad optimistic on US and Iran congruence of interests particularly regarding Syria and Iraq. The only commonality of purpose I see right now between the two is to avoid an open hot war by defining the terms of an “entente”. And the reason for this from the US side being obviously due to the unfavorable shift of balance in other parts of the world.

    The territorial integrity of, and peace and security for, both Iraq and Syria are not only in the strategic interest of Iran but also constitute her open and declared policy. On the other hand the proxy-driven policy of the US, as you implicitly acknowledge by calling ISIS a “controlled” entity, towards those country is to foment trouble and divide and rule.

    Could you then please explain how these 2 strategies can come together and work hand-in-hand?

  254. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    June 18, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    I think like the War in and Over Palestine, the United States and her allies have lost control of the situation with respect to ISIS.

    I would add to your list Yemen as well, whose territorial integrity has been declared an objective of the Iranian Government.

  255. Kooshy says:

    Gav James
    BTW one of the principles of political plumbing 101 is that you better correctly calculate how much shit you are going to make say 35 -36 years and chose and build your pipes accordingly, if not as said earlier the shit will backup every time you flush, like the situation we have now, this pets is called
    how to and analysis of long term shiting calculations.
    If unlike smith, Nasser and the mentor FYI you don’t have your own analysis’s lab here on this site GTT a good safe short way is to add a usual quick 20% to your current shiting capacity load.

    Thanks Gav I love you

  256. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 18, 2015 at 3:41 pm

    People from central Iran are stubborn.

    And yes, that was one of the late Dr. Mossadeq’s problems’ – one among many.

    But I also think Iranian people were not yet ready to support a nationalist government to the core.

    Look at what happened in Egypt with Mr. Mursi’s government and in Thailand with Ms. Yingluck Shinawatra government – hire amob (or in case of Thailand 2 or 3 of them) and bring down the democratically elected government.

    They deserve living under military rule.

  257. Kooshy says:

    Some die hard Arab Sunni or western imperialist like to say Iraq was lost to Iran after the ill conceived 2003 US invasion of Iraq. The Sunnis specials repressive Arabs Sunni states think Iran some how stoled the majority shieh Iraq from a dictatorial ruled minority Sunni Arab dictatorial rule.

    IMO, Iraq was lost to Iran not in 2003 US miscalculation but in much earlier miscalculation of September of 1980 when stupid Saddam with assurances and encouragement from her foreign and regional allies made him to attack Iran, As of the result of his incompetence and lack of trust on his own Iraqi Arab Shieh citizens he alienated his own Arab Shieh citizens. And yes, in that same time period US also lost Iraq and Iran for supporting Saddam and other repressive Arab states against majority of Iraqis and Iranians . And yes ayatollah Khomeini cleverly did win Iraq from Saddam with nothing other than hearths and minds, he had deep knowledge of Iraq and Iraqis after all he lived there for a long time, and he had connection and a deep knowledge of this wast and deeply penetrated network of clergies living there between Iraqis, and yes because of this knowledge he had the foresight on how to control his own side not to overdo and hurt this base of support that gave Iran the advantage over the hegemonic western imperialists and their local clienteles.
    And yet the ever miss calculating US lost majority of Iraqis, the Shieh, again when after the 1st gulf war she allowed Saddam to keep her air gunships to subvert and kill majority Shieh Iraqis.
    At the end of the day with stupidity of Saddam and his supporters in U.S. And regional Sunni Arab states ayatollah Khomeini and Iran had to do nothing to win Iraq. This is the real story on how Iraq was lost. That’s why no one in Iraq is putting up pictures of Washington or Reagan, but you see pictures Imam on major streets .

  258. Kooshy says:

    And yes here is a little repeated secret for
    Stupid US and Arab clientele planers.
    Ayatollah Khamenie and Iran have to do nothing to win Yemen or any other resisting Muslim street.

  259. Kooshy says:

    I thought Ramazan is starting on today Thursday, unless the planet has changed it’s rotation trajectory I guess we already should be in Friday or the first day of Ramazan in Iran?

  260. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Ostad-e Akhlaq,

    You keep saying you’re “out” but you keep coming back. Just piss off already. Your fast will be ruined by your biadabi and bitarbiati.

    You’re the only one in Iran that thinks “his excellency” is not a thief. And as far as I can remember Agha said that haji gave money for the revolution and that Agha’s views on political and cultural matters are closer to Mahmoud-joon rather Akbar-joon.

    For your information, haji got the money before the revolution because Astan-e Hazrate Masoumeh in Qom gave him free land in Qom to convert to housing units which he sold for major profit- as a way to finance “revolutionary activities”.

    Rant-khor from way back, you see!

    Of course as any good crime boss would, he kept a percentage for himself and his family. Haji has always been more into “business” than he has been into “Islam”.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

    Now piss off already as you have falsely announced to do so, so many times before.

  261. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Try to be precise in your analyses. There is a difference between “Zionist” and “crypto-Jews” and yes sometimes the two can be united in one person- but not necessarily.

    Also don’t link of your website in every post. Believe me, I’m not jealous at all…

  262. pragmatic says:

    koshy: It started on Thursday in Iran, what kind of name is this? You and Jaghist are the clowns of this thread.

    Deebdamini jaghist, I like to play with your mind. You are so gullable. I say I leave to piss you off, which I have. You are my bitch.

    Hashemi is the most political individual in Iran. You are wrong once again asshole.
    Now fuck off asshole,. Hey fohsh dadi hala bokoor cock sucker…

  263. pragmatic says:


    I definitely agree with this which you wrote: “But I also think Iranian people were not yet ready to support a nationalist government to the core.”

  264. pragmatic says:

    I am going to the stadium tonight to watch volleyball game between Iran vs USA.

  265. pragmatic says:

    @Dear Atune,

    In reply to your question, please note the following:
    Okay, do you agree that US controls all the Arab countries in our region? You said yes, correct, okay then we agree on this part. Now, why is it that US vehemently is trying to sign treaty with Iran on the nuclear issue? Is it because the US is hurting? No obviously. Are they really scared that Iran is going to build a bomb? No, they’re not. Thus far I assume we agree. I conceive through all these years we have indirectly (?) assisted the US/GB to achieve their long term goals in our important region. At the same time they have helped us to regain our power (left after the fall of the Shah) in the region, despite the fact of Israel. In my humble opinion in many ways we have paved the road for them to implement their long term strategies. I and many elite politicians like me in Iran believe in this. God forbid, if the nuclear negotiations go south rather than north, then which country is going to hurt? As you see I didn’t write “which country is going to hurt the most”. The US or Iran? Of course Iran. US owns and controls the Oil. They’ll put harder sanctions on Iran such as telecommunication and banning the air travel. It’ll weaken our position in the region. Henceforth, we have to make the deal with them. We give some we gain a a lot. As they say in your neck of the woods “bend but don’t break”. Also, let me touch base on this matter too, I believe in past years the US officials delayed the negotiations perpensely. Example: they started the ISIS and Yemen war. Obviously not to only weaken Iran’s thoughts in Syria and Iraq, mostly to commence separating the two mentioned countries. They might extend the time, but in the end, we have to sign the treaty. Voila!

  266. M.Ali says:

    “At the same time they have helped us to regain our power (left after the fall of the Shah) in the region, ”

    What? Are you saying that USA was a positive factor in the stability and regional influence of Iran?

  267. M.Ali says:

    It is easy to come in terms with Iran. Become a client state like Saudi or Kuwait or any other middle eastern country. All sanctions removed. We might have a military base or two from USA but so what? Like how some people shout about why do we need centrifuges or how they say why should we support Lebanon or Syria, they will then say, what’s a few hectres of land to give USA. The government keeps saying that dozens of countries have signed the additional protocol, so no big deal if we sign it, and they will say, well dozens of countries host us bases so why shouldn’t we? Not a big deal.

    People like Smith,FYI,Nasser keep saying there is something genetically wrong with my our brains anyway, so why try so hard? Let’s rent out our land to smart white guys so they will use the resources to invent and make our lives better because we are stupid. And for people like pragmatist, we need the western investments, because how else are we going to solve the issue of water, divorces, and bad hair days.

    I grew up abroad, studied, and initially worked abroad. Five years ago, I moved to Tehran to be in my own country and work for my country. My farsi was shit (and still, reading my daily donya eqtesad articles takes me longer than I like). I’m not the IRI supporter stereotype, given I’m a southern Sunni Iranian that prefers watching breaking bad and mad men than anything religious, but I love my country and unfortunately, reading comments here and some comments in my day to day life, seems we don’t have the necessary self confidence.

    I guess it begins with school. When the first thing we learn is “baba ab dad baba nan dad” then why is surprising that we see generations of Iranians that think everything comes from outside ourselves. If it’s not baba, then its the government or USA, but certainly never us…

  268. M.Ali says:

    Also, Iran’s unemployment is the biggest bullshit. It’s not that there is no work, its that people don’t find their perfect job so they sit at home on their asses and complain. Next time you see a young person complaining about no job, ask him, how many resumes he has sent, how many HRs has he called, how many follow ups did he do, how many jobs did he pass on because it was not good enough, and lastly, how many months did he work unpaid to get experience.

    I’ve talked to dozens of managers. The biggest problem is usually inability of find people. Any moment of time, we have vacancies, whether in accounts, operation, sales, etc. What criteria do we look for? Almost nothing. Just be willing to work. How hard do you think this is? Very. Young people who live with their parents and haven’t been working for last few months will tell you, once they hear the package, “nemisarfe”.

    Badbakhti? Most people in Iran don’t know what badbakhti means. Badbakhti was what I saw I’m Dubai. My colleagues living together because rent was too high. Ads in the papers for ” bed space”, just a section of the room to sleep. Everyone in credit debt so much that all they could hope for was just to pay the interest and applying for other credit cards to pay your loans on your old ones. People working alone all year so they could send !money to their family back home so they won’t starve. Where beng fired wasnt am inconvenience but a death sentence. Where suicide wasn’t due to some depression but the only way out when a person was in so much debt and imprisoned by circumstances that life insurance might be the only way to help your family back home.

    Fuck it. I’m angry.

  269. kooshy says:

    M.Ali says:
    June 19, 2015 at 2:47 am

    Yap that’s a new one for me too, may be is the new spin coming out of the laughing NUTS camp, on another matter so far sounds like the fat lady hasn’t started signing yet, or maybe Khafeh Khoon grefteh , any update on the fat lady’ performance schedule?

  270. pragmatic says:

    M.Ali says:
    June 19, 2015 at 2:47 am
    “At the same time they have helped us to regain our power (left after the fall of the Shah) in the region, ”

    What? Are you saying that USA was a positive factor in the stability and regional influence of Iran?

    Yes in my opinion they were to your surprise! It is my opinion, you don’t need to subscribe to it. You see, (I am not criticizing you so don’t read between the lines) you and guys like koosy are one dimensional when it comes to reality! And your buddy Deeb Damini is no dimensional :))) There is nothing wrong with that, it’s just different viewpoints. My friend, I have to repeat myself again: What is the currency which majority of transactions in every sector (globally) is done with:
    You are right young man $$$$. So read the rest in your own thoughts….. This world is controlled by Dollar and who is the owner of it USA, therefore, they rule the world. Don’t day? They have pinned your hero Putin! They have cornered China that with the big debt still they are kissing the US butt.

    They got rid of Sadam and Taleban, who benefited the most? Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Bahrain or UAE? Of course IRAN the Tiger did! But I know you might say they didn’t plan for this, it got out of their hands. I hear this a lot from people like yourself who have lived all their lives outside of Iran. It is obvious that Iranians that have lived for a long time in overseas and have got educated and worked all their lives there are against those countries! I don’t know why? It is very estranged. I am going to propose a research on this to our esteemed government or The strategic section of Tashkis Maslahat, which is resides by Dr. Velayati.

    The last point which I like to touch on is unemployment. How could you say the unemployment is a BS! Even the government has acknowledged this problem! Just count how many people in your circle of friends and family are without a job. Most probably you are from a higher middle class or a rich family, then that doesn’t count.

    A sound financial society is the one that the middle class comprises of 70% of the population, 15% poor and 15% rich. Of course within the middle class we have three sectors, high, medium and lower.

  271. pragmatic says:

    kooshy says:
    June 19, 2015 at 3:12 am

    I am sorry if I misspelled your name, all the time I thought it was Koosy! That is why I asked for an explanation. Anyway, my bad, I apologize. Since you keep making fun of Ayatollah Hashemi-Rafsanjani I have to copy the following written by one of the parliament members:

    عده ای برای اینکه خودشان بزرگ شوند با بزرگان در می‌افتند و بر همین اساس مخالفت با هاشمی جز استراتژی برخی افراد شده است که برای پیشبرد بعضی از اهداف سیاسی خودش بر طبل آن می کوبند.

    البته گاهی آقای هاشمی به گونه ای صحبت می کند که از صحبت های وی برداشت های دوگانه می شود و این برداشت ها باعث می شود تحریک پذیری در جریان فکری و سیاسی جامعه بوجود آید و برخی بعضی مسائل را بزرگ می کنند و به حاشیه های اطراف ایشان دامن می زنند.

    هاشمی جز سرمایه‌های نظام است و اینگونه رفتارها با وی مناسب نیست گفت: عده‌ای چه دردوره اصلاحات و چه در دوران احمدی نژاد، آقای هاشمی را جز سوژه های تخریبی خود قرار داده‌اند .

    این نماینده مجلس تاکید کرد: هاشمی رفسنجانی جز صاحبان انقلاب است و با این حرف‌ها و روشها تخریب نمی‌شود و اگر بخواهیم اسم پنج نفررا بیاوریم که ریشه و پایه و اساس انقلاب اسلامی را شکل داده اند اسم آقای هاشمی جز آن پنج نفر است .

    وی خاطرنشان کرد: الان نفوذی که هاشمی در این دولت و انتخاب دولت داشته است باعث شده است کسانی که با او در سال‌های گذشته مخالف بوده‌اند در حال حاضر دور وی جمع شوند و کسانی که در زمان اصلاحات شعار تند عالیجناب سرخپوش را می دادند الان حامی هاشمی شده اند.

    Therefore, you cannot deny his influence in today’s society. The first reason people voted for Dr. Rouhani was his excellency hazrate ayatollah hashemi-rafsanjani (damat efazeh), and second Hojatoleslamolmoslemin mouhammad khatami.

    Now you “nobody” calling him a laughing nuts is only your appalling.

  272. Rehmat says:

    On June 12, 2015, Gabe Friedman, boasted at the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) that Queen of Porn Jenna Jameson, (a Catholic who has criticized Barack Obama for throwing Israel under bus by negotiating with Iran), is converting to Judaism. Jameson, who has been married twice before, is engaged to Israeli Lior Bitton. Bitton who works in L.A.’s diamond business, was charged with stealing merchandise from his stores last week.


  273. James Canning says:


    I take it you have dropped your contention the US “controls” Isis.

  274. James Canning says:


    I gather you do comprehend that in Britain it is regarded as “child abuse” for a person in his 20s to marry a girl in her early teens.

  275. Kooshy says:

    James Canning says:
    June 19, 2015 at 1:32 pm

    “I take it you have dropped your contention the US “controls” Isis.”

    No Gav is not that, is just I don’t do plumbing, David Cameron does plumbing but normally he does a lousy job. Don’t you agree? I take it you think Obama is a good plumber.

  276. Ataune says:


    I will try to stay in the scope, to be brief and avoid political bickering.

    1- The facts on the ground show that Iran’s actions in the region are intended to be, and most of the time were, principled, rational and idealistic during the life of the founder of the revolution and realistic since then. While after September eleven, the US became erratic and more unrealistic than not.

    2- Although I wouldn’t entirely dismiss the logic in your answer, I have to disagree with your main assessment that US and Iran were/are going a kind of parallel path while implicitly, and knowingly, helping each other.

    3- Iran strategic policy after 1988 was/is based on peaceful coexistence with neighbors and countries of the region, recognition of their territorial integrity and security needs, with priority being given to closer business and trade relation and people to people exchange especially with the disenfranchised, the latter being usually the shii’a population. Iran defensive treaty and power projection is meant to display a perimeter of influence that encompass mainly the South-West Asia. Briefly, Iran look at herself, realistically one would say, as a peaceful (not pacifist though, in the sense that if attacked she will respond) regional power with all the incurred responsibilities but also obvious advantages. This strategy was a constant during all Iranian administration after the War, although the declarative facade of it showed different tones and colors depending mainly on the political leaning of the administration in place.

    4- The US has, in general term, a strategy geared towards facilitation of trade and business in the world. After the fall of the Soviet Union, being temporarily the sole superpower, she started planning urgently to lay the basis for the perpetuation (i.e. for the next 50 years as documented in Defense department military outlook papers’ leaks) of this state of affairs: global military power projection and re-alignment of her soft-power tools were among the most important plan for this new orientation in her strategy. These plans were mainly aimed at Russia, the declining superpower but still on par militarily, and China, the rising economic one predicted to catch the US in the next 2 or 3 years.

    5- In the middle-east, the goal for the US became thus to use the strategic position of the region as a leverage to be used against the two potential rivals. The objective shifted from status-quo to shuffling of the decks putting in place a Pax-Americana under US supervision. This shift made the US perceived interests more and more in conflict with the Iranian ones. Policy were put in place as early as 1990 to counter Iran’s rise and influence in the region. The dual containment policy of the Clinton admin targeted Iran’s trade and construction efforts where the Rafsanjani administration, under the overall strategy mentioned above, was trying to put Iran back on track economically. The Conoco cancelled contract showed publicly that the US was serious when she was talking about sanctions and embargo against Iran. Later on, the 9/11 event put the US policy in the region, called “offense” by the Bush admin, in a more irrational track by transforming the shuffling into a “tabula rasa”. A more confrontational attitude towards Iran ensued. Ultimately, the erroneous decision of invading Iraq displayed the fatal flaws of the US global strategy by making her look one would say like a “paper tiger”. On the other hand, while Iran, at the end of 1990’s under the Khatami administration, was trying to pave the way internationally for more dialogue and tolerance and helping openly the US in Afghanistan, in line with overall Iran strategy, the Bush team completely undermined this effort by the “axis of evil” speech, making sure that the public know who is the next military target after Iraq’s “cake walk”. Later on, after the Iraqi defeat, US realized that she needed a fresh re-assessment.

    6- The “vehement” attitude, as you put it, of the avoidance of a war with Iran shown today by the US is not a “return of favor” because Iran had “lend helpful hands” previously but more the realization by America that at least for a generation a big war in the region will translate into complete dismantlement of her grand strategy. The Obama administration is basically trying to set the clock back to the time before 2001. Forget September 11; forget Iraq invasion; forget Afghanistan; and let’s go back to the status quo ante with Iran when the US sanctions were in place but there was no talk of “nuclear crisis” and therefore no sanctions related to it. No perspective of hot war existed at the time either and differences were mainly political.

    7- Based on this narration one can easily see who needs it more and who is in a “heroic flexibility” position. Who can stand firmer and who is walking on a sand. Although the US will push and shove and howl and shout, at the end the firmness of the Iranian negotiating team and a display of it to the Iranian public opinion is the best policy for Iran and the best politics for this administration (as recently shown by the US backpedaling on the PMD topic). Given that no one politically important inside Iran can object to an accord which preserve the redlines and given that rather sooner than later US needs an “entente” with Iran I would say if June 30th comes and passes without an accord, it won’t be the end of the world. There might be some temporary and short-term “harm” but the mid and long-term rewards are more than worth it.

  277. Smith says:

    How fossils are formed: http://goo.gl/9q8FNT

    چرا بعد از انقلاب، چهره‌هایی مانند شریعتی نداریم که در فضای دانشگاهی، بتواند ذهن و دل جوانان را متوجه مسائل دینی کند و پرسش‌ساز باشد و با چنین استقبالی مواجه شود؟ فضای فکری و دانشگاهی جامعه توان بازتولید چنین شخصیت‌هایی را ندارد؟ یا هستند ولی دانشگاهیان و جوانان، اقبالی نشان نمی‌دهند؟ یا اینکه حاکمیت چنین فضایی را برنمی‌تابد؟

    به نظرم 30 سال قبل از شریعتی، تلاش‌های زیادی برای یک انقلاب دینی صورت گرفته بود. او در مسیر آن تلاش‌ها قرار گرفت و با نگاه متفاوت و گفتمان شگفت خود، مجموعه‌ای را که امام(ره) در رأس آن قرار داشت تکمیل کرد. این مجموعه با امام(ره) مسیر خود را پیدا کرد و همه چیز سرجایش قرار گرفت و یک انقلاب دینی که بعد از سرخوردگی از مشروطه مطرح می‌شد و این‌که اگر دین بیاید دنیا را اصلاح می‌کند، پدید آمد. حالا مقصودم الان است، دیگر بناست چه اتفاقی بیفتد؟ تجربه دولت نبوی و علوی و زندگی زینبی و حسینی و همه اینها تجربه شده و محصول آن یک دولتی است که پدیده آمده است. قرار نیست این مجموعه دوباره انقلابی بکند و با ایده‌هایی که دارد راه دیگری را برود. بنابراین اساسا فکرش را نکنید که چرا مثل آنها نیست. قرار است چه اتفاقی بیفتد؟ حالا کسانی از مخالفان انقلاب، برای نوعی دیگر از انقلاب کار می‌کنند و باید دید بین آنها مثلا کسی پیدا می‌شود که آن‌طور باشد یا این‌طور. معمولا موج‌های مخالف است که این‌طور گل می‌کند. الان برای مجموعه حاضر انقلاب، علما و تئوریسین‌هایی هستند. کاری به مراجع دینی اصلی ندارم، آنها که همان نظام سنتی دین را عرضه می‌کنند. مقصودم کسانی است که برای حل و فصل معضلات فکری راه حل می‌دهند؛ آقای طائب، صدیقی و بسیاری دیگر که نمونه برخی از جریان‌ها هستند. طبعا در تاریخ تشیع جریان‌های فکری مختلفی بوده است و هر جریان نمایندگان خود را دارد. شیعه اخباری و غالی و تندرو تا شیعه اصلاحی و اعتدالی و خردگرا. آدمی که مسائلش را با خواب و داستان و استخاره حل و فصل می‌کند و آدمی که به این حرف‌ها پایبند نیست و یک نگرش عقلی دارد، نمونه‌ای از این نمایندگان جریان‌های فکری مختلف هستند. افرادی هم ترکیبی از اینها هستند. در اینجا گاهی منتقد پیدا می‌شود، گاهی مدافع برخی از نگاه‌ها، و کسانی هم جریان‌های فکری خاص خود را با مریدان خویش دارند. اما آنچه آن روزگار را پدید آورد مسیری بود که به یک انقلاب منتهی شد و آن شرایط فعلا تکرارپذیر نیست. بنابراین دنبال شریعتی و مطهری نگردید. البته هستند کسانی که در حرف زدن و نصیحت کردن و انتقادی برخورد کردن، ادای شریعتی را درمی‌آورند، اما اینها اساسا زمان را عوضی گرفته‌اند. اتفاقا اینها هم به همان اندازه سواد دارند و فکر می‌کنند اگر ادای او را درآورند کار درست می‌شود. در حالی که نه ادب او را دارند نه ادبیات او و نه اصلا زمان آن زمان است، و نه تجربه انقلاب و آن روحی که در مردم دمیده شد و آن وضعیت را پدید آورد، وجود دارد. به نظرم الان نوعی سردرگمی هست که چیز بدی هم نیست. زاییده تغییر شرایط و تصادم افکار قدیمی با آن است که نیاز به تجدید را پدید می‌آورد.

    در این میان روشنفکری دینی شکست‌های فاحشی خورده و چندین تجربه آن از شریعتی تا سروش و مجاهدین و دیگر جریان‌ها شکست را تحمل کرده است. مدل‌های جدید آن هم که روی اخلاق تکیه می‌کند، گرچه قشنگ است ولی خیلی واقع‌گرا نیست و در این دنیای خشن راه به جایی نخواهد برد. دنیای اسلامی که داعش تولید می‌کند اینجا هم ممکن است و الزاما تندرو تولید می‌کند. دست ما نیست که چه دستوری بدهیم. در عصر ما فکرهای سنتی هم شکست‌های خاص خود را دارد که البته با مغفول گذاشتن بخشی از دین و تن دادن به برخی از تغییرات، امورات خود را می‌گذراند. گاهی هم در تمسک به برخی از شعائر دینی تندروی می‌کند که خود را و حضورش را پررنگ‌تر کند. یک عرف و عرفیات سنگینی هم از قبل بوده و حالا هم تولید شده، اینها هم به اداره امور در کنار شرع سنتی و برخی از نوگرایی‌ها و روشنفکری‌های مذهبی کمک می‌کند. یک ملغمه‌ای شده است که حکومت و حوزه صورت‌بندی آن را برعهده دارند و آن را ادامه می‌دهند. اوضاع اینها جوری است که فکر نمی‌کنید تغییری در اوضاع و احوال روی داده اما در واقع خیلی چیزها عوض شده است. به هر حال اوضاع شکننده هست اما عجالتا استوارتر از این هم چیزی نیست. یک عیب اصلی آن درآمیختگی سیاست با دینداری است که بسیاری آن را از نان شب واجب‌تر می‌دانند، و توجیهات وجیه و غیروجیه زیادی دارند، اما به هر حال به اعتراف بسیاری، جنبه‌هایی از آن تأثیر منفی جدی روی برداشت‌های دینی و تلقی جوانان از دین گذاشته که راهی هم برای اصلاح آن طرح نشده است.

    Is it then any surprise, that one group supports a certain octogenarian, and the next group another octogenarian and so on and so forth?

    Absolutely not.

    Fossilized minds incapable of thinking, revolve around fossils. Since there is no new-ness, there is no innate desire for moving forward, there is no tolerance for questions, what remains is a kalami debate (a form of extreme irrationalism in Islamic history) often reeking of profanities, about which octogenarian is “best”?

    As if even we “find out” which octogenarian, whether Misbah or Rafsanjani or etc etc is best then our problems are going to be solved. As if we could all agree Misbah is the best of the best humans on planet earth and even better than those who invent medicines and medical machines, and if we could only enforce Islam even more stringently, then tomorrow Iran will become self sufficient and productive.

    This is how the shameless think. Look around yourself wherever you are. Every thing not belonging to nature, is invented or created by West. Starting by this screen you shamelessly are looking at, to read my words. You get sick, you seek Western medicine. You want to travel, you use Western invention. You want food, you use Western technologies from Haber process in chemistry to agricultural sciences.

    Alas, if we could think.

  278. Smith says:

    Another view on unthinking nature of Iranians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQy50mekQRs

    Any thinking soul in Iran having taken up the challenge to answer questions this man has raised? Universities? Hozeh?

  279. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 19, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    I think the message is overall consistent with my own thoughts in this regard.

    I would have explicitly mentioned the uniqueness of the Western European experience so that the audience would know that Iranian experience in this regard is not unique.

  280. Kooshy says:

    Those Iranians including laughing Nuts’ family followers who really believe US has or will change her hegemonic strategy to align herself with Iran and to accept Iran as an sovereign and independent acting state with legitimate self interests need to ha e their heads examined. In 40 years since Nixon to China US still has not yet fully accepted China’ legitimate self interest in China’ own region. During this period all along she has done her best and what she can to contain, divert and at occasion. Try a color revolution on China, I don’t see that will subside soon.
    U.S. planers see China’s rise as U.S.’ demise,which is not too off. So was US’ strategic decisions and policies for ME after 911 they did what they thought will save their position in ME, but didn’t work well they end up helping Iran’s rise. The outcomes and consequences realized wasn’t by design it rather was the consequences of a bad design, which US had no intention to receive.
    No matter how the Iranian ass sniffers of Anglo sucks try to spin it, to make me and you believe US still has the control and can formulate how events move forward in ME, or for that matter in other parts of the world.

    Those Iranians who are addicted to sniffing the Anglo sucks or Ashkenazi asses should try to see if sniffing the shroud of the 170 martyred divers is as and more satisfying.
    If not, they can be sure they will end up sniffing at that end of the sewage pipe that IS is coming out. Think about it, hard, or you may end up becoming some London / Paris Chechen Haji bitch.

  281. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 19, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    Well, I think the situation is critical but it is not hopeless.

    I think men such as Dr. Soroush, or the late Dr. Shariati and the late Mr. Mottahari were “discussion-0starters”.

    That is, it is more important that they posed questions and got others to think about things.

  282. Rehmat says:

    Iraqi-born Jewish professor Alon Ben-Meir in June 18 blog post has urged Americans to stop their blind support to the Zionist regime if they want Israel to destroy itself.


  283. Amir says:

    Just have to say Mr Smith’s statements about “octogenarians” must be based on perceptions; neither side is invested in a single person. I can not believe pragmatic seriously considers Hashemi as anything more than the lesser of all devils; I don’t take his assertions about what agha said or what agha did seriously either.

    Running the risk that someone might call him monafegh, I’ll say he has time and again made it clear that he thinks differently from the Leader; he admits US has considerable control over us and he thinks that’s alright. I never heard the Leader say something remotely resembling that.

    The way he talks about Hashemi [in my opinion] is solely pointed towards making Bused-in-Basiji angry (حضرت آیت الله العظمی هاشمی دامت برکاته). The point is, at any given time there could be only one person who is best upholding/ defining/ classifying your way of thinks (ایدئولوژی/ مکتب/ جهانبینی whatever). There were many many octogenarians before Mesbah or Emam or Leo Strauss or Socrates or you name it (I don’t know many).

    What Mr Smith and FYI have been doing since the time I started reading comments on this site has been typical نحن مصلحون stuff; “think! question everything! don’t take anyone for his words!” It’s اصلاحات deja vu; just moving business overseas.

    I’m not saying FYI should be banned from posting here; that’s his right, and I can’t stop him 😉 but in the spirit of our debate-loving fellow Farsi speakers, I’ll just tell the rest think before accepting others’ opinions.

    و نهایتاً البته خدا ممکن هست هر کسی رو هدایت یا گمراه کنه ولی قطعاً کسی که فکر میکنه دانشی داره و از فکرش استفاده میکنه از رحمتی که متوجه مستضعفین فکری و جاهلین هست بهره مند نخواهد شد مخصوصاً اگر فهمیده باشه ابتدا به خاطر استدلالهای ضعیف وارد راه اشتباه شده ولی حالا بنا به دلایل دیگر تصمیم گرفته ادامه بده که در اون صورت وامصیبتا

  284. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Yep no surprise. And let’s all remember that Mohajerani was advisor in Akbar Shah’s office for many years before entering politics…

    Don’t blame him baba, he’s just following Ayatollah-ul Uzma Adhamaul-Chosse Alam Haj Agha Hashemi Rafsanjani’s example and crawling into Saudi butthole for money.

    Hey maybe he’ll sell off one of his granddaughters to the Wahabis like Haj Agha did as well…

    Wikileaks Saudi Cables: Saudi Embassy in London pays for Mohajerani’s son’s PhD


    I’m also glad to see that Ahmaq believes that nobody voted for Rouhani for Rouhani’s own sake.

    I’m sure Sheikh Hassan would beg to differ.

  285. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Any thinking soul in Iran having taken up the challenge to answer questions this man has raised? Universities? Hozeh?”

    How about you answering the question we’ve been waiting for you to answer?

    You claim the problem is Iranian “culture”.

    Please give us a “unique”, “original”, “brilliant”, “genius” definition of culture cause then maybe we might actually maybe agree with your views.

    It’s called “making a coherent argument”, something you haven’t done because you’re busy circle-jerking each other.

    Otherwise you’re just being an arrogant a-hole brow-beating others and hypocritically linking articles about the modesty of English inventors, right?

  286. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Read Oswald Spengler, Toynbee, Jared Diamond, Joseph Tainter for starters to “academically” understand the rise and fall of civilizations.

    Not to mention Mann’s paradox of western civilization which your Daddy refuses to address.

    But of course your belief in the west is exactly that- a fervent belief- like a cargo cultists muleteer’s belief in the cargo cult.

    You will never honestly deal with criticism of western civilization from within the west because that would challenge your blind religious belief in the west. You are emotionally incapable of this, of fearless logical debate and analysis. As dogmatic as they come.

    How unthinking of you.

    This is how fossils are formed.

  287. Amir says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 19, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    جون من قضیه رو ناموسی نکنین

  288. Kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    June 20, 2015 at 12:28 am
    أمير جان كار با اين a holes از أين حرفا كذشته بايد برأي ايران أينجا همً جنكيدً با همهً أدواتً در دست حتي زبان نا سزا

  289. Amir says:

    آقایون التماس میکنم شما دیگه مثل این اسمیت بی غیرت نباشین که به خواهرهای خودش توهین میکنه میگه همه دخترای ایرانی رو میشه اوتول زد
    میخواین بجنگین؟ بجنگین سعیکم مشکور ولی هدف وسیله رو توجیه نمیکنه
    ولا تتبعوا خطوات الشیطان

  290. Kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    June 20, 2015 at 12:28 am
    Don’t get worried trios zios task is not to have a dialogue with you but rather is to interrupt the dialogue on this blog. Their limitation is that they can’t condemn Isabel’s atrocities and actions although I some times think FYI was allowed that option, like when a while back he replied that condemning Israel for killing children will have a financial consequences on him. So no worries they have to take it up their you know what and move on.

  291. Kooshy says:

    Amir agaha
    For survival of our country whenever you see a dirty hole like some ill conceived mouths on this blog, don’t be shay, and don’t let and leave it be empty, like BIB filled it up with a good fist full of punch. You better believe it, it is a war

  292. pragmatic says:

    Deeb Damin azizam, did you see me in the crowd last night? They cameraman zoomed at me three times, only because I had two potato in my hands.

  293. pragmatic says:

    کتابهای درخشش زیر تیغ تخریب، صراحت نامه و گزارش یک جشن با محوریت بررسی نقش آفرینی ایشان در 3 انتخابات سالهای 84، 88 و 92 در بسته ویژه ای عرضه شده است.

    در کتاب درخشش زیر تیغ تخریب، ناگفته هایی از انتخابات ریاست جمهوری سال 1384 با عنوان “درخشش زیر تیغ تخریب” عناوینی همچون هاشمی خاکریز اول، کژراهه، این کدام اسلام است؟، اعتراف می کنیم ، حدیث مکرر مظلومیت و تروریسم انتخاباتی به چشم می خورد.

    در کتاب صراحت نامه با محوریت موضوع انتخابات ریاست جمهوری سال 1388 با عنوان” صراحت نامه” عناوینی همچون چرا به رهبری نامه نوشتم؟، هدف احمدی نژاد در مناظرات حراج تاریخ انقلاب بود، ولایت فقیه مدافع فحاش نمی خواهد و دیر یا زود همه چیز روشن خواهد شد، به چشم می خورد.

    در کتاب گزارش یک جشن نیز با محوریت انتخابات ریاست جمهوری سال 1392 با عنوان ” گزارش یک جشن” نیز عناوینی همچون بخاطر مردم آمدم نه شورای نگهبان، اصل احراز صلاحیت مردم هستند، دو لحظه تاریخی در زندگی هاشمی، چرا هاشمی گفت به روحانی رای می دهم و مجموعه ای از پیام ها و نامه های علماء و مردم به هاشمی درپی ردصلاحیت ایشان آمده است.

  294. pragmatic says:

    Amir jan – Unfortunately, guys like deebdamini, koosy and M.Ali, are not pro velayat faghih. I bet with you they are not even Islamist. They are bunch of losers that have accumulated lots of complex through all the years they have lived abroad. They are so stupid that their hero is Ahmadinejad! And you know why? As koosy mr. jang talab has written here many times, they way he talked about US in media!

    Also Amir jan, could you kindly stop writing in Arabic. We don’t understand a word. It’s like I write in Spanish or German which I am fluent. I appreciate it.

  295. pragmatic says:

    Atune jan – I read your reverent post and enjoyed it very much, it was written in “sotto voce”. On the contrary to arajief written by jaghist aka deebdamini and koosy. I’ll reply to you as you have numbered it.
    Ba nameh
    va ba dorood bar Hazrateh Ayatollah Hashemi-Rafsanjani (damat efazeh). Yek salavat baraye haj agha…………. Motoshakeram.
    Atune jan sorry to bring them in my reply, but since koosy has declared a war, I have to attack them from any front that I get. But like napoelon has said, “I rather lose the battles but win the war”. This is his excellency’s position too. As you see many times they thought he is finished, but he came back stronger and more popular.
    1- I do not agree especially the first 10 years of the revolution. During those ten years due to lack of experience they made few wrong decisions. Actually the US became erratic after collapse of Soviet Union, and let’s not forget prior to that time they had the upper hand over the Soviets.
    2- My logic is vivid. It’s 2×2=4. They have been going parallel for past 3 years. Then why is it that the US is so keen to continue the talks with Iran? They could have tighten the sanctions and ruin us gradually, Russia and China (two of our friends on paper) could not do jack-shit. As we agree they can’t separate Iran, but due to Shis Sunni differences throughout the history they are using it to dismantle the Arab countries. Iran knowingly or otherwise got involved in Iraq, Syria, and Yemen. I am not sure if Iranias knew how the US was playing their cards in the beginning, but now they know for sure. Also ordinary people like you do not know what is going in the back stage.
    3- No it wasn’t. As we all have seen we interfered in internal politics of Iraq, Lebanon, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
    4- I agree. But Russia is no longer military in par with the US.
    5- You wrote “In the middle-east, the goal for the US became thus to use the strategic position of the region as a leverage to be used against the two potential rivals.” Well said. Forget about axis of evil and …. It’s all political rhetoric. Iran for 36 years has been chanting “Death to America” (DTA) and many other things. As a matter of fact we are stock with this DTA, because we eat bread out of it (azesh noon mikhoreem). Have you heard that by 2020 Iran might join Nato as a sub category!?
    6- US needs Iran to implement it’s new strategy in ME. They need Iran to weaken their ally Israel. Not it’s vise versa. With our potential (26+ natural resources) Iran could be again their main and strategic partner in the region.
    7- Iran needs it more. Because throughout our history we have seen that we can not trust our Russia. The same with Chinese they just want to suck our blood. We always had problem with yellow race. India is not a threat.
    Last but not least, in order for us to keep the hegemony and reside over Persian Gulf countries and beyond we need to have a good relationship with the US. Otherwise they can shatter us when ever they want to..

  296. pragmatic says:

    @M.Ali your name was included with our two clowns by mistake. I am sorry.

  297. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 19, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    In his books Khishavandi Penhan and Emtena Tafakor, he does say exactly what you say. That only the Europeans have had the ability to formulate rational thought systems and the rest (like the Japanese) have only been students of the Europeans.

    It is also exactly what Dr Jafarian says under a different context.

    It is really strange. These questions are of profound implications. One would expect, the society gets jolted into thinking by just hearing these questions. But the slumber is so deep and the coma so irreversible that apparently nothing can arouse them.

    After all what is our cultural history? Have we ever had any serious thinking society in the past several thousand years? Dr Rasool Jafarian thinks not. Dr Aramesh Dustdar thinks not. And these men are at completely opposing poles of our culture, one an akhond and the other an atheist philosopher.

    This is where the absence of a Thomas Aquinas in Islam is truly felt. Some one who can resolve these issues once and for all. To debunk the unthinking school and clean up the legacy that Ghazali and others left behind. Because as of now, thinking is not even allowed in current Islam.

    As Dr Jafarian points out, we do not even have a tamadon (except the Isis and Taliban type). We do not even know ourselves, to the point that we learn about us from West: http://www.khabaronline.ir/detail/423995/weblog/jafarian

  298. pragmatic says:

    Smith – I read Jafarian. He is good.

  299. pragmatic says:

    صادق زیباکلام در گفت‌و‌گو با خبرنگار ایلنا با اشاره به توهین‌های پیش آمده در مراسم تشییع شهدا و همچنین در مراسم افطار توسط یکی از مداحان گفت: آنچه این افراد نمی‌دانند این است که برخی تغییرات چهره‌های سرشناس نظام همچون آقای هاشمی٬ باعث شده انقلابی‌تر و نزدیک‌تر به اهداف انقلاب شوند و در همان ریل مبارزات بهمن 57 قرار بگیرند.

    این فعال سیاسی اصلاح‌طلب تصریح کرد: افرادی که اینگونه در مراسم ملی اهانت می‌کنند٬ نمی‌دانند که خواست مردم انقلابی در سال 57 آزادی مطبوعات و آزادی بیان و حاکمیت قانون و آزادی اجتماعات و انتخابات بود٬ نه اهانت به دیگران؛ اینها نمی دانند مردم برای رسیدن به این خواسته‌ها مبارزه کردند و شهید دادند.

    وی افزود: در مورد بحث تغییرات که آن مداح از صحبتهای من برداشت کرده، باید بگویم که او اصلا نفهمیده من چه می گویم. امروز نظر بسیاری از اصلاح طلبان و اقشار تحصیل‌کرده مردم، نسبت به هاشمی تغییر کرده است. بسیاری وقتی من را می‌بینند این مسئله را تایید می‌کنند؛ از سوی دیگر بسیاری از چهره‌ها در این سال‌ها تغییر کردند و فهمیدند راه توسعه کشور٬ اهانت به دیگران و توهین کشورهای دیگر نیست و باید به اهداف اصلی انقلاب مثل آزادی‌خواهی و حاکمیت قانون توجه کرد.

    زیباکلام با اشاره به اینکه اهداف انقلاب در سال‌های ابتدایی آن به خاطر شرایط خاص آن روزها توسط عده‌ای مصادره شد٬ گفت: متاسفانه به جای پیگیری اهداف اصلی انقلاب، غرب ستیزی در دستور کار قرار گرفت٬ اما آقای هاشمی دهه نود همان هاشمی سال 57 است که برای آزادی بیان و نبود زندانی سیاسی و … تلاش می‌کند، همین مسئله موجب شده هم اصلاح‌طلبان و هم غیر اصلاح‌طلبان٬ ایشان را تکریم کنند.

  300. pragmatic says:

    We got on our hands two madahs, too, all they know is: insolence. I did research previous topics in goingtotehran and I noticed that Basiji has been insulting people all the time. Our two testically Madahs are jaghist and his khayehmal koosy…

  301. pragmatic says:

    Mr. Nasser – Why you guys are so concerned about ISIS? Were you as concerned about Taleban then, too? In today wars which mostly is proxy wars, we need fortune soldiers. ISIS, Taleban so on and so forth are fortune soldiers. As said many times, they are there to implement or weaken certain positions.

  302. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Dr. Jafarian- whom I knew personally- overstates the matter. The reason for this- and I have told him this- is that he knows history in terms names, dates, events well, but has no ability to analyze history based on Quranic concepts.

    This might not be problem for an atheist philosopher but is a major problem for an akhund.

    A good place to start is Shahid Sadr’s analyses of “history’s traditions”- God’s rules for the rise and fall of nations explained in the Quran. Imam and Agha have also spoken about these matters extensively.

    In fact Shahid Sadr is an original thinker par excellence.

    But like I said, you are not after knowledge- you are only after trying to shore up whatever efraati view you decided is right based on emotions.

    Try being a real scholar instead of an emotional wreck.

  303. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Inshallah, this will really piss you off…inshallah.


    آیت‌الله مصباح یزدی:
    برخی بستگان امام(ره) مانند ۱۴۰۰ سال قبل رفوزه شدند/ در اسلام «پلورالیسم فرهنگی» نداریم

    آیت‌الله مصباح یزدی در پاسخ به سؤال پیام فضلی‌نژاد مبنی بر اینکه اخیرا آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی گفت «تمدنی که امام می‌خواست این انقلاب ایجاد کند، دچار انحراف شده است» و حتی از شما به عنوان یکی از تحریف گران امام نام می برند، اظهار داشت: کسانی که ما را متهم به تحریف می‌کنند [آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی]، در واقع افترا می‌زنند و افترا از قدیمی ترین شگردهای شیطانی است. یکی از نعمت های الهی که خدا در این قرن به ما داد، وجود امام بود. اگر امام را تحریف کنند، یعنی دارو را تبدیل به سم کرده اند. نتیجه این است که به جای بهبود، مرگ خواهد بود. کفران نعمت نتیجه ای جز این ندارد و این یک قاعده قطعی و استثناناپذیر الهی است. برای همین، همانطور که رهبری فرمودند اگر راه امام گم شود، ملت ایران سیلی می خورد. جامعه ما در حال رشد است و هر قدر جامعه رشد میکند، امتحان ها و فتنه های آن پیچیده تر و سنگین تر می شود.
    عضو مجلس خبرگان رهبری با اشاره به «رفوزه شدن برخی بستگان امام» گفت: در سال‌های ابتدای بعثت، از جمله ماجرای وفات رسول خدا، بسیاری از بستگان و اصحاب پیامبر رفوزه شدند. آن امتحان برای ١٤٠٠ سال پیش بود و از آن زمان جامعه رشد بیشتری کرده است. آن زمان برخی بستگان پیامبر عامل انحراف بودند و رفوزه شدند و اکنون برخی بستگان امام خمینی (ره). برخی حق را می شناسند، اما مانند ابوجهل تا پای جان آن را انکار میکنند. روح برتری طلبی، قانع نشدن به حق خود و تسلیم نشدن در برابر حق از عوامل روانی است که برخی آگاهانه و عامدانه حق را انکار می کنند، و حتی در مقابل حق سرمایه گزاری میکنند. ما منطق، ارزش ها، سیره پیامبر و اهل بیت را داریم، اما آسیبی که همه این ها را مخدوش می کند، تحریف است.

  304. Yk says:

    Atuane, B&B, Kooshy, Amir, M. Ali
    I am in tandem with most of what Atuane wrote but the question I would like to raise is that:
    1. If there’s no agreement don’t you think Obama would like to show some strong arm policy towards Iran in order not to appear weak and give the Democrats a chance in the next presidential election which Iran nuclear agreement is going to play a lot of part?
    2. And do you think Iran economy can withstand another inhumane sanctions the like of which the Congress will enact and which Obama would have no choice but to support?
    3. Then what do you think Iran reaction will be towards such policy?

    Though bottom line I believe US need this deal more than Iran does and Obama would like to have this as his legacy which further point to the fact that sooner or later US cannot avoid but to come to terms with Iran.

  305. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    I only insult when assholes like you start. Otherwise I can be quite pleasant which you would know if you had researched correctly.

    Anyway like old man being paid by Zionists, very likely that you are paid by the godfather.

  306. M. Ali says:

    Pragmatic, I would like to respond to your post on June 19, 2015 at 8:06 am.

    Regarding USA’s support of Iran: Your post had several dimensions. You mention the strength of USA in sentences like “This world is controlled by Dollar and who is the owner of it USA, therefore, they rule the world. Don’t day? They have pinned your hero Putin! They have cornered China that with the big debt still they are kissing the US butt.”

    I never denied USA’s superpower status. I readily accept that USA is financially and militarily the biggest player in the world today. However, this has nothing to do with them helping Iran.

    There are two ways another entity can help you. Intentionally and unintentionally. Intentional assistance to me can be appreciated and seen as a good gesture to better improve my life. Unintentional assistance does not deserve the same respect.

    USA has INTENTIONALLY hurt us more than UNINTENTIONALLY helped us. USA could have prevented Saddam from attacking us. They could have stayed out of Iran’s pro-Mossadeq movement. They could have not shot down Iran’s passenger plane during the war. They could have not sanctioned us or convince/push/threaten other countries into sanctioning us as well.

    If certain of their actions have sort of been of a benefit to Iran does not mean we should suddenly look at them as our guardian angel.

    You claim that I am “one dimensional”. If we put that characterization of me aside, I’d say that geopolitics is even more complicated than what we think. You think one dimensional is people thinking USA is all bad, and two dimensional is thinking of USA is more facets, but I will say think higher than that, think ALL countries and relationships more complicated. When USA got rid of Saddam & Taliban, it wasn’t to help Iran, it was to set up bases on both sides of our country. Iran tried to make the best out of a bad situation, but do you really think having bases on Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan is to our advantage??

    Have you read this paper by the task force on terrorism from 1992 called “Tehran, Baghdad & Damascus: The New Axis Pact”? Bodansky argues that a new axis is being formed, which would bring the old enemies (saddam & IRI) closer together as the new resistance.

    Let me just point the summary of the paper. You can read it in more detail later,

    1) The key to current Iranian policy in the Persian Gulf region is Iran’s planning for a major war in the Middle East with Iran leading a powerful bloc of Muslim states against Israel.
    2) Iraq’s recent crisis over U.N. inspection of the Agriculture Ministry in Baghdad was part of an effort by Saddam Hussein to demonstrate his willingness to support an Iranian dominated alliance.
    3) Syria’s support for the “New Axis” is an outgrowth of its view that it is impossible to reach an accord with Israel and that therefore it will need allies in its upcoming military confrontation with the Jewish state.
    4) The origins of the Tripartite alliance between Iran, Iraq and Syria go back to the early days of the Ayatollah Khomeyni’s rule, when it was decided that the Islamic Revolution could succeed only with Iran at the head of a broad based Islamic alliance.
    5) After the Iran-Iraq War, Iran~s interest in an “Islamic Bloc” concept was renewed, although at the outset that bloc was dominated by Iraq. After the Persian Gulf War, this relationship reversed, with Sudan acting as intermediary, and Iran became the dominant member.
    6) Among other aspects of the Axis, Iraq is assisted by Iran and Syria in bypassing UN sanctions. Although Damascus and Tehran do not particu larly care for Saddam, they recognize that his survival irritates the United States and thus strengthens their position in the region.
    7) Saddam Hussein has accepted a subordinate role in the axis as his only means of retaining power, but at the same time pursues repressive policies against Iraq’s Shi’ite and pro-Syrian populations as a way to assure that his “allies” do not topple him. ”

    That’s what multidimensional means!

    It’s the same way with Taliban. Did the USA government really “help” us by removing Taliban and moving their own bases there? War is all about logistics. With control of the lands neighboring us and the sea, the threat against Iran has been massively increased in the last decade or so.

    Regarding Iranians Who Comes Back: Here you go a bit off-topic and say, “say they didn’t plan for this, it got out of their hands. I hear this a lot from people like yourself who have lived all their lives outside of Iran. It is obvious that Iranians that have lived for a long time in overseas and have got educated and worked all their lives there are against those countries! I don’t know why? It is very estranged. I am going to propose a research on this to our esteemed government or The strategic section of Tashkis Maslahat, which is resides by Dr. Velayati.”

    Good luck on your research, but try not to make the question, why we hate the countries we lived in (we don’t), but why we love our Iran so much. I can give you my own opinion, which obviously is worth less than the research paper that is going to be written, but I think our love for Iran comes from living in other places and therefore, knowing the worth of our country more. A person living in Iran all his life, watches all the tv shows from the west, and thinks people everywhere are living the easy life and only they have problems. To people like us, who came back to Iran, we better see all the good things in the city. It’s like the mountains surrounding Tehran. To a Tehrani, they don’t even see it. But to someone like me who came from abroad to live in Tehran, it awed me.

    Regarding Unemployment: I think you completely misunderstood me here. I didn’t say people are all working. There are a lot of people not working. But my argument is that it is not because there are no jobs, but that there are no ideal jobs that those young people sitting in their parents home are looking for.

    And you say, “Even the government has acknowledged this problem!” “Even the government” statement means nothing to me, because just because I support my country, doesn’t mean I agree with everything the government says. My dream is to have a presidential candidate that tells the people, “All problems can be solved by yourself. Stop complaining and get off your asses and WORK” but he will probably get a dozen votes only, because people like a candidate that gives them an external force that is the supposed source of the problems (to a government like Ahmadenijad’s, its the evil criminals in the government and to someone like Rohani its the evil sanctions, but no one ever points the fingers at the voters).

    So, to summarize on this unemployment, I did not say that everyone is working. I said, and I stand by it, that there is a lot of work, just not the kind of work people want to do.

    Let me give you an anecdote. I was in my small town two-three years back. An old beggar came to my car and while I never give money to beggars, that day was an exception. I gave him 500 toman. Suddenly a young beggar popped up from no where, looked at the money I had given, rolled his eyes, and told him, “forget it, no worth it”. I got pissed off, as if it was my duty to pay much more. I demanded that I get my money back. They refused and I told the young beggar that if I knew he was there, I wouldn’t have paid anything, because he should work.

    Now, here is the crucial part of my story. Here is all of Iran’s unemployment problems summarized in one response.

    He said he would have also worked if he had a relative to give him 50 million toman as an investment.

    That’s it. That’s how a lot of “unemployed” people think. They just don’t want to work any job. They either want a high paying job or an investment to start a business, otherwise they will sit at home and claim there are no jobs.

  307. M. Ali says:

    ” Yk says:
    June 20, 2015 at 5:10 am

    Atuane, B&B, Kooshy, Amir, M. Ali”

    Since you brought up my name, it’s a perfect excuse to ignore my actual work and spend time replying to this!

    I don’t think more sanctions is even possible. After oil & banking, what else can they sanction. I also think that if nothing happens, sanctions will start to unravel (and that’s probably USA’s biggest concern, otherwise instead of negotiation, they’d just wait and wait and wait, until Iran’s economy falls down and then they can come and start negotiation surrender terms).

    A country that has been sanctioned for 36 years learns how to move around them. For the everyday businessman who is not involved in major dealings like buying 100 jet airlines, then sanctions isn’t that difficult to move around. Just start a company in any neighboring company (situation in Dubai becoming difficult for Iranians? start a company in Oman’s free zone or go to Armenia and move it by land).

    And we can also see new banking movements by the east such as the AIIB.

    But then if we can resist the sanctions, why is Iran giving up so much on negotiations. I think one of the concerns from a significant group of decision makers in IRI is NOT continued sanctions or more sanctions, but threat of war. If sanctions doesn’t work out for USA, will USA just shrug and go, “oh well, we tried” or will they say, “Nothing else worked, let’s go in and attack, and fuck the costs”.

    I think aside from the chest thumping from our side, there is a influential group of elites who are terrified of an US attack. Let’s look back at history. In March, USA attacks Iraq. In same period, Iran gives a proposal to USA agreeing to stop it’s program, allow further inspections, etc etc. USA rejects that, but a few months later, Iran stops all enrichment because of “confidence building” and gets nothing in return. What does this indicate aside from a Iran that was a bit scared that maybe USA would attack Iran next. Because let’s not forget that USA’s invasion of Iraq to change the government took them just two weeks.

    So, to go back, if I had to guess, I bet one of Kerry’s strategy in the talks is, “Listen Javad-joon, give us something to take back to congress, because if me and Obama don’t succeed in getting your signature, then our hands are tied, and they will push to attack Iran. Don’t come crying to me when that happens!”

  308. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Put your cock down for a few days and read this:


  309. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    And then when you’re done read this:

    by Joseph A. Tainter, 1996



    “Industrialism illustrates this point. It generated its own problems of complexity and costliness. These included railways and canals to distribute coal and manufactured goods, the development of an economy increasingly based on money and wages, and the development of new technologies. While such elements of complexity are usually thought to facilitate economic growth, in fact they can do so only when subsidized by energy. Some of the new technologies, such as the steam engine, showed diminishing returns to innovation quite early in their development (Wilkinson 1973; Giarini and Louberge 1978; Giarini 1984). What set industrialism apart from all of the previous history of our species was its reliance on abundant, concentrated, high-quality energy (Hall et al. 1992). 5 With subsidies of inexpensive fossil fuels, for a long time many consequences of industrialism effectively did not matter. Industrial societies could afford them. When energy costs are met easily and painlessly, benefit/cost ratio to social investments can be substantially ignored (as it has been in contemporary industrial agriculture). Fossil fuels made industrialism, and all that flowed from it (such as science, transportation, medicine, employment, consumerism, high-technology war, and contemporary political organization), a system of problem solving that was sustainable for several generations.

    Energy has always been the basis of cultural complexity and it always will be. If our efforts to understand and resolve such matters as global change involve increasing political, technological, economic, and scientific complexity, as it seems they will, then the availability of energy per capita will be a constraining factor. To increase complexity on the basis of static or declining energy supplies would require lowering the standard of living throughout the world. In the absence of a clear crisis very few people would support this. To maintain political support for our current and future investments in complexity thus requires an increase in the effective per capita supply of energy-either by increasing the physical availability of energy, or by technical, political, or economic innovations that lower the energy cost of our standard of living. Of course, to discover such innovations requires energy, which underscores the constraints in the energy-complexity relation.”

    OK genius, pay close attention to “…only when subsidized by energy” and the last sentence.

    Apparently it’s all about controlling energy supplies, not some cultural bullshit that you and old man seem to be deluded about!

    So it’s all about controlling Iranian oil and gas after all. Ey baba!

    And it’s an old white guy from America saying it!

    Tu ruhet oghde-i!

  310. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    The more we are economically detached from the so-called “global economy” as defined by western corporations, the better for Iran. Of course this not a matter of absolutes but one of degrees.

    Rouhani admin is attempting to drag us into the western economic swamp where we are the “subsidized energy” for their “complexity”. This is what the whole fuss is about.

    The reason they do this is because they are financially supported- and in the case certain members- equivalent to the dalal mafia run by Rafsanjani crime family.

  311. pragmatic says:

    I was just on the phone with your tavileh keeper and he alluded that you had ran away. Badbakt, sookteh mohreh paydari.

    I will reply back to you cocksucker about Culture and why assholes like you are no good for Iran.
    Now go get me a cup of tea jaghal.

  312. pragmatic says:

    آیت الله هاشمی رفسنجانی با تاکید بر اینکه “تحریم ها، زندگی را بر اکثریت مردم سخت می کند”، گفت: یک عده محدود که قدرت، زور و تریبون دارند، حرف‌هایی می‌زنند که انسان‌های فرهیخته و دانشمند برای پاسخ ملاحظه کاری می‌کنند، حرف‌هایی که برای جامعه ایران انقلاب و مردم مشکل‌ساز است، به قول رئیس جمهور محترم اگر از جیب مردم خبر داشتند، از تحریم‌ها استقبال نمی کردند.

  313. pragmatic says:

    هاشمی با نقل خاطره‌ای از سال48 گفته بود: «دونفری –به‌اتفاق آقای خامنه‌ای- صبحانه رفتیم منزل آقای قدوسی. این آقا هم آنجا بود. نشستیم تا ظهر با او بحث کردیم تا قانعش کنیم برای ادامه مبارزه. آخرش هم گفت من مبارزه با شاه را حرام می‌دانم! آقای خامنه‌ای از او پرسیدند: دلیلت چیه؟ آن آقا در جواب گفته بود: مبارزه‌ای که مجاهدین و چپی‌ها در آن باشند، حرام است! آقای خامنه‌ای هم به تلخی به او گفته بود: اگر اهل مبارزه نیستی، خب مبارزه نکن ولی لااقل مبارزه را با این حرف‌ها خراب نکن! … از کم‌فروشی این آقا، کار به‌جایی رسید که رهبری 10سال – تا ابتدای انقلاب – با او قهر بودند.»

    َAgh means Inane Deebdamini mentor Mesbah!!

  314. Yk says:

    M. Ali
    I agree that more sanctions is impossible and Iran as learn how to circumvent them and the article you linked to provide a lot of insight about behind the scenes of how governments carry out their dealings. But what I don’t agree with is the unraveling of the sanctions regime, take for instance the EU sanctions on Russia which is very obvious that it’s meant to hurt the long term interest of the Europeans yet they go along with it in fact renew it. Or maybe am missing the point could you please elaborate on this unraveling issue. Thanks

    Well you maybe right but I think the IRI system is designed in a way that each method introduced by different administration would be made subservient to the general interest or the strategic core of the system, and I honestly don’t think Rouhani will do anything contrary to the interest of the system he is a part and parcel of in fact a major beneficiary and remember he was the representative of the Rahbar in the SNSC, to me that means a lot of good will and trust. And from what the petroleum minister is saying I don’t think they are going to integrate the system into the western hemisphere but try to get what they want with what they have, and I believe you will agree with me that at times you have to bargain with the devil in order to defeat the devil. Or what is your take on this…

  315. Amir says:

    hey if I knew how to write that in English I would; but alright, I’ll stop using Farsi.
    The Arabic parts are all from quran, but you know that.

  316. Amir says:

    @ M. Ali
    sorry to bother you!
    just wanted to say I agree with your opinion about perception of US militaey threat in some of Iranian politicians; I remember vaguely one night two of the negotiators (in 2003-4) in 22 pm news were saying the US isn’t going to attack us and we realized the very possibility of war.
    Although, war-weariness of US public, inability of US to set up a functioning government in either Iraq or Afghnistan, the experience of “axis of evil”, voluntary suspension of Uranium enrichment, probably promises from other countries, gradual development of strategies to resist US invasion coupled with overally better weapons systems and last but not least 2009 elections have throughly changed both perceptions of security policy makers and the staff itself; not only everyone has gained more confidence, but also the “weak links” have been retir

  317. Fiorangela says:

    Nuclear weapons labs hit with sizable fines for new security violations
    A classified material was missing for years before anyone noticed, and a lab official’s public slides included bomb design data


  318. kooshy says:

    Yk says:
    June 20, 2015 at 5:10 am


    I don’t think “the deal” is not going to happen I think “the deal” has already been agreed to, what I have said and I believe is that any deal with a hegemonic supper power meaning US and her circle of clientele will be superficial and not adhered to by US side, like other deals and understandings Iran and US have made since the revolution (Algiers, Afghanistan, etc.), in all this “deals” Iran has participated and agreed to keep the US away and the minute she left the table she got stabbed in her back.

    The reason I say this is simple, the US can accept Iran’ enrichment to 90%, Nuclear Bomb making, missiles sending to Moon and back, Economically flourishing like japan, scientifically getting nobles left and right like our own zios here want, you name it she loves it and takes it for Iran. The only thing she wouldn’t, and she will not take is Iran’ independence. What I think it will happen is like before for their internal purposes they will sign whatever and how far pushed Iran will agree to, and after that they will continue to push Iran internationally, economically, and by their local clients and proxies, all these elements are there and are at work now, I suspect they will not go away after the “deal”. Iran’ independence is what they want, they want and they need Iran to become again a client state; here is where one can see this same goal as what
    People like Laughing Nuts and his circle wants, this is same as what our Pathetic pest wants (sar-sepordegi) and this is what our zios including our own trios want, .

    Here IMO is why

    1- US obviously needs to have Iran under his flag to have a meaningful control over western and central Asia and Indian Ocean (Iran = the Bridge between east and west), like she mostly did in good old days.
    2- Laughing Nuts and circle are ready to give up Independence since the time of Imam but never could because every time they were rejected by IRANIANS, in parliament or by election, still power hungry and they believe the support of US will keep them power, like the Saud family.
    3- Pathetic pest as per his admittance doesn’t mind to give up Iran’s independence for economy = Money (like Vosough) since I think he is must be from Vanak area north (the green zone) shah’ left over, and he is hoping things will go back to dream summer vacations at Caspian and travel to France. ( typical oligarch mentality)
    4- And the Zios including our own residence trios Zios want the same thing since they correctly belive the only way Israel can withstand and tolerate Iran’s rise and predominance in the region is if Iran like before is contained under US dominance.
    That’s the bottom line and reason for this three groups coming together.

  319. Rehmat says:

    Shalom…. this will certainly piss-off Hasbara goons.

    To find out more on the Czech-Israel eternal love affair, one has to read Jan Fingerland’s article, entitled Sympathy for The Devil: On the sources of the Czech inclination towards Israel, published by Prague-based ASPEN Institute, founded in 1950 by Chicago businessman Walter P. Paepcke (died 1960).


  320. Fiorangela says:

    Amir says:
    June 20, 2015 at 9:19 am

    Speaking of Farsi, How do you say, Thank you America! in Farsi?

    What would happen if Ayatollah Khamenei encouraged Iran’s spiritual leaders to include in (those always-scary) Friday prayers shouts of “Thank you America!” Thank you for killing our scientists! Thank you for lying about our nation!”

  321. Amir says:

    I’m not that sharp, I didn’t get what you meant.

  322. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 20, 2015 at 3:01 am

    The late Ibn Rushd was such a man as the late Thomas Aquinas in his philosophic output.

    In Islam, the religious philosophy is still within the Aristotelian system and has yet to grapple with the works of the late Dons Scoutus, the late Bonaventure, the late Spinoza, the late Descarte, and very many more.

    See, in my view, the entire outlook of a people have to change and that is the work of centuries.

  323. Rehmat says:

    Bruce Riedel, is a former 30-year CIA official and currently a senior fellow at Israel advocacy group, Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institute. On January 17, 2013, in a memorendum to president Barack Hussein Obama, Riedel warned him that a possible overthrow of Saudi ‘royals’ would represent a severe setback to America’s domination of the region and provide a dramatic strategic windfall for the Islamic Republic.

    “A revolution in Saudi Arabia remains unlikely but, for the first time, due to the Arab Awakenings, it has become possible. The Saudi royal family has unique strengths and legitimacy; the Kingdom was founded in the 18th century as an alliance between the royal family and an austere Islamic preacher whose followers still partner with the House of Saud to govern the state,” wrote Reidel


  324. Rehmat says:


    America did not kill Iranian scientists. They were killed by Israeli Mossad agents. CIA, just provide helping hand to the Jewish assassins.


  325. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 20, 2015 at 9:08 am

    Mr. Yazdi is well versed in the Shia Islamic Tradition but he cannot move out of it; politically, intellectually, emotionally.

    He is in a comfortable place and has his followers who want to share the same space with him.

    Their motto is this: “Blessed is the man who has no original thought, for he is saved.”

    He is also correct that Islamic Pluralism does not exist; just like Islamic Republic did not exist before it was invented in Iran.

    Men like him are not capable of dealing with the world and such things as “Islamic Pluralism” or “Islamic Freedom” must wait younger vigorous men for their births.

    On specific Islamic Pluralism:

    The melliyat system of the Ottomans was one such instance of it – so is the practice in Iran of guaranteed representation for recognized religious minorities so it the fact that the Azeri Culture in Iran is much closer to the Culture of Central Asian Turkic people than the Persians – yet they remain in Iran due to the glue of the Shia Religion..

  326. pragmatic says:

    Koosy I’m from najadabad,isfehan. I live in karaj. So go play with your pal jaghist chombul,who just ran away from his tavileh.

  327. pragmatic says:

    Guys since I’ve been bombarded from different angles, give a few hours to respond to those that have replied to me politely and vigorously in one reply.

  328. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 20, 2015 at 7:11 am

    In the book “The Party’s Over: Oil, War and the Fate of Industrial Societies”, by Richard Heinberg, the thesis of Tainter is fully expounded upon. Indeed, Tainter’s look at the well-documented collapse of 17 previous civilizations leads him to conclude that “However much we would like to think of ourselves as something special in world history, industrial societies are subject to the same principles that caused earlier societies to collapse.”

    “Cost” of energy is a fundamental force in driving cultural and societal transformations – the empirical evidence for this is very strong.

    As human beings, imprinted with evolutionary pragma, most of us tend to focus on persons and personalities – this is no different than the general population’s fascination with the likes of Kardashians!

    Setting aside persons and personalities, empirical facts suggest that in order to change the dynamics dictated by “cheap” energy, we must focus on fresh ideas – not personalities. To the extent that this “physics of societies” is applicable, its lessons suggest that a radically different paradigm – different from the current western cultural paradigm – is needed.

  329. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Thanks for the tip. The important point is that the two western-civilization cargo-cultists read that sentence about not being historically special.

    Apparently their view is that western civilization is somehow “exempt” from the way other civilizations rose and declined.

    There is nothing wrong with having this view, but it has to argued properly, not taken as is which is what they want us to do.

    I agree that western civilization is not an exception. More than that, as Tainter argues in many ways it is declining according to the parameters laid out by Tainter and I would say other ones he doesn’t mention.

    Most importantly I think a major problem is a systemic political paralysis in the US that is unprecedented and not fixable with the tools available.

    In some ways according to Tainter’s model western civilization in Europe collapsed in the 1930-40s but within “peer polity” system the US temporarily enveloped Europe civilizationally.

    Now it’s the US that is in a civilizational crisis and has entered the era of diminished returns.

    The west and US will collapse before they kick the cheap subsidized energy habit.

    I’m looking forward to it.

    Hey, maybe it pays to be a “muleteer” after all.

  330. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    That motto actually fits you very well.

    Not a single original thought from you in all these years, jut monkey-moqaleding westerners and repeating what others said a few months prior.

  331. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    If you actually read Ayat. Mesbah’s books- which you haven’t- you would see that he and other contemporary thinkers like Ayat. Javadi have more original thoughts in one page than you have had in your whole lifetime.

    Of course you will never read their books cause you are a fake pseudo wanna be, not a real truth seeker.

    Biadab, bitarbiat, bigheyrat and charlatan…that’s who you are.

  332. Amir says:

    Suddenly I’m relived! So our “intellectuals” are still stuck in religious pluralism and religious enlightenment… for a second I was afraid that they might have come up witb a new distraction. But noooooooo! Thinking of new methods to decieve our youth is tiresome; Iranians are truely lazy. Even when they are recruited by Chatham house, every now and then they have to turn to their superiors.

    Misleadinv others isn:t that hard you guys 😉

  333. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 20, 2015 at 11:53 am

    Most western industrialists recognized the end of cheap energy in the late 80’s and understood that shifting industry to “cheap labor” markets will not last. That is why the entire western economy turned toward “financialization” — creating larger and larger debt and credit markets.

    When the debt bubble burst in 2008, and in order to improve the “decline horizon”, western countries turned toward “material destruction” – in its many forms, it achieves very short term gains at a high cost of long term stability. The systemic political paralysis in the west is a symptom of the larger disease!

    History will write the end of this chapter as well. No civilization is exempt from these forces!

  334. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    June 20, 2015 at 12:34 pm

    It is rather pathetic as well as contemptible to read all these commentaries that pine and wish for the demise of the Western Civilization.

    For all those commentators are completely reliant on the fruits of that civilization – they even use one of the dominant languages of that despised civilization to wish for its demise.

    And in predicting its demise, they look at the half-baked intellectual output of fringe writers.

    There is enough U-238 dissolved in Earth’s oceans to feed breeder reactors for millennia – there is plenty of energy out there and there is no shortages.

    Civilizations do not die natural deaths; some other civilization kills them. And there is a period of overlap during which the new and old civilizations co-exist, the new one feeding on the carcass of the dead or the dying civilization.

    The core of every civilization has been a set of ideas that gain control of the minds of men. Those ideas, evidently, become exhausted and can no longer address the way the human world has changed. The loss of their potency is harbinger of the loss of vigor, decline, and exhaustion.

    That is what happened to the Ancient Egyptians, to the Sassanid’s, to the Romans, to the Chinese and so on and so forth.

    Let me end by asking what positive result will emerge from the departure of the Western Civilization? For I am metaphysically certain that over time developments in Sciences, in Music, in Film, in Drama, in Philosophy, in Architecture, in Medicine, in Dentistry, in Aviation, in Business, in Finance etc. will peter out.

  335. pragmatic says:

    I’m still at work, upon my return I shall reply.
    Hey lunatic easy, okay easy. Brain constipated arshloch. Cocksucker, vatanforoosh

  336. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    If instead of rehashing shit you read 30 years ago, you would actually read what Tainter said, you would have seen that he empirically- yes empirically- rejects much of the bullshit you said in your post.

    That’s the whole point isn’t it Agha-jan. You have some opinions on the rise and decline of civilizations but you don’t want to enter a real academic debate about them. You can’t even address what old white western guys like Tainter and Mann have said. You’re pathetic.

    Nobody pines for anything- as always you misrepresent what others say. What others have said is that western civilization is no exception to decline.

    Tainter says that civilizations decline/collapse when there is a diminishing return on expenditure on increased complexity- complexity- including all the things you list- is based on cheap subsidized energy. That’s where Iran, oil and gas, US wars in the Middle East and US strategic denial of Saudi to others on the planet come in.

    If you had read Tainter, you would know that he answers your dissolved uranium bullshit with what economist call fallacy of infinite substitubility. Empirically it is not the case that one can infinitely replace on energy source for another when the first one is depleted. Go read about it before opening your mouth.

    Address the arguments as stated. Don’t goh-mal your way out of it. If you think that western civilization is not going to decline say it and address those superior white Euro men you claim the contrary.

    Otherwise shut your mouth.

    And to answer your stupid question, the first thing that will happen when western civilization ends is that at least the massive global violence western civilization rains down on others will end- precisely “the paradox” of western civilization that Mann mentions and which you refuse to even acknowledge because you’re, in the end, an Iranian cargo-cultist, not an enlightened western man.

  337. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Oh look, the peasants are starting to revolt against the oligarchs. I’m guessing some modest British inventors were among “the people”.

    No place for arrogant arm-chair techno-oligarch assholes among “the people”, right?

    Anti-austerity protests: tens of thousands rally across UK


  338. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    The writing is on the wall bitch!

    Earth is entering sixth extinction phase…


    “The planet is entering a new period of extinction with top scientists warning that species all over the world are “essentially the walking dead” – including our own.

    The report, authored by scientists at Stanford, Princeton and Berkeley universities, found that vertebrates were vanishing at a rate 114 times faster than normal.”

  339. pragmatic says:

    Apparently there are guys here that do not read ones post thoroughly. If they do, they are not comprehending the core of the message. They might be reading between the lines. Last but not least, they are stuck on their own mindset and thoughts, henceforth they cannot accept others viewpoints. They believe how they think about Iran’s politics is the way others are highway.

    In all my posts, which I beg you to go and read them once again, you see that I have never questioned or said Iran should be dependent on Western Powers especially the US. One of the last posts by one guy here assertively said that I am an advocate of Iran be under US influence and I am pro monarchy! Why is it that we Iranian like to put down our foes, not only by distorting the facts and figures, but also by using profanity. I am so glad that that guy copy and pasted my first post here. I admit I was harsh, but I did not use any profanity, the only profanity I use was in regards to “Hegemony”.

    In my posts I vividly said what the US has done since 9/11 has been in Iran’s favor. They got rid of Saddam and Tableban for us. What did we do when Taleban killed 9 of our diplomats? Arguably, we couldn’t do anything, we had seen Soviet Union a superpower experience in Afganistan. I also said the US/UK strategy in ME has changed. They have realized a sovereign Iran is the best partner for them in this region. Thus far what have they done? They have paved the road for us to get there, consciously or unconsciously it has been great for us. Then I said in my opinion the new strategy is to separate Syria, Iraq, Yemen and in the end KSA. Then why can’t we have a mutual, two way rapprochement with the US and other Western countries? All these that I have mentioned are in Iran’s favor or against it? Then there are a couple of guys here that call me a vatanfroush or I believe Iran should be dependent on the US.

    As far as the culture is concerned, I am talking about Farhang not Tamdon. I have lived in Iran all my 68 years . I see how our FARHANG has demised. Especially at 8 years of Ahmadinejad. Most of you I guess live outside of Iran and you are not in touch with people day-to-day. People have become rude, no manner at all. Everyone is in a rush, for what I don’t know. I always ask people have your lives changed by being in a rush all the time? They give me a look and then they say no. People lie left and right. People cheat each other like taking a glass of water. The government corruption is at its acme. They are so brazen about it. It was never like this, I lived before and after the revolution, I worked prior to revolution too. Never during Ayatollah Khamenie, Ayatollah Hashemi and then Hojatol Islam-ol-Muslmin Khatami we had corruption like this. Even his excellency Hazrateh Ayatollah Khamenie has talked about this. A recent as two weeks ago. The prostitution, addiction, and rape have increased astronomically!

    In regards to Mesbah! First of all, he was not an ally of Imam Khomeini, this is a fact. He was in his solitude until Imam rezvanollah tala passed away. His Islam does not give any rights to people, on the contrary to Imam’s. I suggest you all read all his speeches since 1370. His thoughts are way different than Martyr Motahari and Ayatollah Javadi-Amoli. How could they think the same whilst Mesbah was pro Ahmadinejad and Javadi against him?! When he talks about politics, he says things that later he has to change it. For example Lankarani for the presidency and when he was rejected by Janati, he said Jalali. But do you remember the things he said about Bagheri Lankarani?! Please google them and then I want to see if you agree with me that he is not a man of politics. His Islam was good for 500 years ago. His harshness is implausible for todays society. Even Ahmadinejad is no longer in contact with him. Ahamadinejad was very smart, he used him to gain momentum in his first four years of presidency. But today as we say in farsi “tareh ham barash khord nemikuneh”. Now who is Ahmadinejad? He was brought to power to be an obstacle in front of Eslahtalaban and Etedalyoon. He had all the criteria to take this position. Populist, Lier, demagogical, corrupt and brazen. If you go back and read Ayatollah Hashemi speeches, you realize from the first day he said all the above mentioned! Did we need his rhetorics, and did we need his unprecedented prowess? Did you all see when he went to visit Rahbari in hospital? Rahabri did not pay attention to him the way he did to others, such as Ayatollah Hashemi. BTW, the bond between the two Ayatollahs is better than the past 55 years.

    If you do not agree with one you don’t need to accuse them, you don’t need to agree with them, you could read and do not comment. I guess most of you are in your fifties or even less. The advise I have for you is that look for people that with time they change and they accommodate themselves with the current world, but yet they keep their principals.

  340. pragmatic says:

    Basiji – I was just reading your post to oldman, if he is an oldman then why calling him with F word? Why are you so impolite?

    Put our political differences aside, what is your issue? Why there is so much anger in your posts? Why do you like to put people down even if they are saying something stupid? Why do you want to force your ideology into our brains? Just read and write.

    Have you been raped in your teen years? You are a psycho!

  341. M.Ali says:

    Pragmatist, let me answer some of your points quickly. You again mention about USA helping us. Did you read my post on 6:04 am? It appears you didn’t because I feel you just repeated what you said instead of addressing anyone’s comment. It would be easier to follow a debate if you directly address the posts. Because I think it is unfair when you say “they are stuck on their own mindset and thoughts, ” when you proudly said that you haven’t changed your opinion in 44 years!!

    Anyway, let’s go back to the USA part. “They got rid of Saddam and Tableban for us. ” For us? Did you read the paper I mention or its summary? Let me link it for you


    I also talked about the military bases that USA set up after the two wars right on our border. I also mentioned other points which I think support my argument, but I don’t need there is a need to repeat them.

    And then you go one step further and say,
    “I also said the US/UK strategy in ME has changed. They have realized a sovereign Iran is the best partner for them in this region. ”

    What have we seen from USA to indicate this? Look at USA’s other partners in the region. How much has USA sanctioned Israel or Saudi? When USA is talking about Iran stopping it’s R&D’s, stopping it’s enrichment program, getting access to its military sites, interview its scientists, in exchange or temporary suspension of sanctions , this is not Best Friends stuff.

    In regards to your comments about Culture, I just want to point out that you sound just like most people. You are talking about The Good Old Days. Everyone talks about that. Sit with any older person and they talk about how people were nicer before, they didn’t lie, but now brother doesn’t have mercy on their brother.

    You think this claims are new? Some parts are due to changing times & progress. For example, you mention “Everyone is in a rush, for what I don’t know.” Duh. That;s what city life is like in 2015. But that’s where having some living experience outside of Iran makes you appreciate Iran more. Iran doesn’t feel rushed at all compared to many other countries. You live in Dubai for a year and then come and tell me Tehran life is rushed. Here is a quote from 80s poet Stephen Dobyns, “Each thing I do, I rush through so I can do something else”

    The rest of your statement in this regard falls in the same idea. People moaning about how better things were. You say, “People lie left and right.” I was reading Jalal Al Ahmad a while back. He was saying the EXACT SAME THING SIX DECADES AGO.

    And I bet you can go back as far as you want and you will know it was something every generation was focused on. Why else did Prophet Zoroaster talked so much about Honesty and Lies? Because I will bet that 3000 years ago, people were lying left and right.

    “The government corruption is at its acme. They are so brazen about it. It was never like this”

    I’ll give you my own theory on this. Iran is going through phases.

    1) During Qajar and Shah, corruption was open because they were Kings and no one could protest.
    2) After the revolution, corruption was hidden, and if people knew about it, no one had the guts to protest.
    3) During Ahmadenijad’s time, he shook things up. Before that, it was “you steal and I will steal, and let’s keep both our mouths shut”. But for the first time, corruption was TALKED ABOUT OPENLY. The first stage of resolving a problem is to acknowledge it. And for the first time we did.

    But maybe you mean that during Rafsanjani’s time, there was no corruption, and all those overnight billionaires were all lottery winners.

    “The prostitution, addiction, and rape have increased astronomically!”

    Let’s always try to talk with figures if we can. You remind me of Smith who claimed that Prostitution after the revolution increased by 1000 times. I mathematically tried to prove him wrong, but I’ve noticed that the more logical, or should we, pragmatic, a person pretends to be, the more they seem to resort to emotion and not fact!!

    You make a statement, try to back it up! People lie more, people rush, people cheat, rape has increased, prostitution are more, all of these are being thrown about without any basis. MORE and LESS are mathematical statements and CAN be backed up!

    Anecdote means NOTHING. You told me in another post that you didn’t believe in a opinion poll I posted, and you countered it by saying I should just go on a bus! That’s not how facts come about!

    Regarding various Ayatollahs, I have no opinion, and others can discuss it with you.

  342. M.Ali says:

    “M. Ali
    I agree that more sanctions is impossible and Iran as learn how to circumvent them and the article you linked to provide a lot of insight about behind the scenes of how governments carry out their dealings. But what I don’t agree with is the unraveling of the sanctions regime, take for instance the EU sanctions on Russia which is very obvious that it’s meant to hurt the long term interest of the Europeans yet they go along with it in fact renew it. Or maybe am missing the point could you please elaborate on this unraveling issue. Thanks ”

    YK, I don’t mean it will directly be unraveled, I mean, it will become more and more insignificant. For example, notice how everyone talks about sanctions as if it was come about only a few years back? What about all the other sanctions in the last 36 years? They become unimportant because the country got used to it and found various loopholes. I bet it was a big deal at the beginning but after three decades, it didn’t matter that you couldn’t get US goods straight from USA, because the channels had been set up so perfectly that you could get most US items you wanted in Iran.

  343. Nasser says:

    pragmatic says: June 20, 2015 at 5:01 am

    First of, I believe ISIS has more staying power than most believe and you seem willing to acknowledge. Neither the Syrian government nor the Iraqi government is going to regain control over all the territories of their respective countries. My only assertion is that they shouldn’t try to either.

    I don’t agree with your comparison of the Taliban with ISIS. Taliban represented neither a significant threat nor an opportunity to Iran. I keep paying attention to ISIS both because I feel the Shias must not fall into the trap of fighting them but also and more importantly because I feel they can prove to be useful against Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

  344. M.Ali says:

    You guys noticed this wikileak?


    Summary, Rafsanjani talks to Kuwaiti cleric, who then updates US ambassador about their meeting. Rafsanjani complains about Ahmadenijad.

    The cleric tells USA, “Al-Mohri urged the U.S. to talk to Iranian moderates, like Rafsanjani, saying “you have your channels.” ”

    Stuff like this makes me upset with certain groups of the elites. A high ranking official indirectly talks to the enemy and dismisses the government that people voted for. Notice how the indirect talks were before the 09 election crisis, and when people blame certain elites, others get annoyed.

    Notice also this statement from the Kuwaiti Shia cleric,
    “Expressing his concern about the situation in Iraq, Al-Mohri strongly and repeatedly emphasized the need for Iraqi Shi’a to reach out to and “appease” Saudi Arabia. “The Saudis should be given their share in Iraq,” he argued.Al-Mohri said he had conveyed this message to Shi’a leaders in Iraq, many of whom he claims to know personally and maintain regular contact with. He told them that if the Saudis rebuffed their approaches they should seek U.S. mediation. ”

    “He told Poloff in this meeting that he had not met with Ahmadinejad by choice, suggesting he disagrees with Ahmadinejad’s political and religious leanings.”

    And some of you wonder why I like Ahmadinejad. If he is the kind of guy who clerics want Iraqis to appease saudi Arbia don’t like him…then great!

    Reading more on this cleric, I noticed another wikileak from 2006,

    “4. (C/NF) Turning to Iran, Al-Mohri said he believed Iranian
    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would remain in power until the
    next elections in 2009, but would not be re-elected. He
    claimed Ahmadinejad had made a lot of enemies through his
    economic policies and by replacing many highly-placed people
    with hard-liners. Asked if these ousted leaders represented
    a serious opposition to Ahmadinejad, Al-Mohri said they were
    more of a balance than an opposition to the President. “The
    U.S. mistakenly views the Iranian regime as synonymous with
    Ahmadinejad,” Al-Mohri advised. “There are many other, more
    moderate people (within the Iranian government).” Al-Mohri
    did not believe the hard-liners, led by Ahmadinejad, had the
    support of “the street,” noting that some women in Tehran
    still do not wear the hijab in public. “

  345. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    June 20, 2015 at 1:06 pm

    I was bemused by your outburst of anger – as if this was personal to you. Civilizations – be it west or east – are bigger than you or I. They come and go – nothing special.

    Your reverence for the western way is understood – nothing wrong that. Western school of thought has contributed to science and technology – no question there.

    Please refrain from projecting your own thoughts on others. I have no wish for demise of “any thing” – none.

    For someone who proclaims the value of the scientific method – lacking knowledge of the arguments of Tainter – and presenting no counter arguments – you leave me in a bit of confusion.

    Is it that the rational argument and empirical sciences are “worthy” so long as they support a pre-ordained view point that you agree with?

    Perhaps you wish to explain your strange outburst?

  346. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    June 20, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    Year ago, I obtained a 2 volume book, published in Pakistan – as per usual – in the English language by the title “Western Civilization: Condemned by Itself”. It was a compendium of texts written by various Western writes that criticized this or that moral shortcoming of the societies that they lived in.

    Had Pakistan have anything better to offer? No.

    Does there exist any Muslim or non-Muslim polity which is not Western and has anything similar to offer as an alternative?

    No again.

    So why this animus to the Western Civilization?

    Its demise is not going to help Muslims, in fact, it will harm them – who is going to develop new drugs or surgical techniques etc.?

    Arabs? Or Turks? Hardly, I should think.

    I threw those volumes into trash, where they belonged.

    In regards to the theses of the book, I cannot agree with it and I wrote a few sentences as why I do not. I cannot go into details and try to rebut every utterance or claim of that book.

    Yes, I agree with your characterization of a civilization – from civiss, city – as being a tool. But any tool embodies a purpose, and end. And for a civilization, that teleology is supplied by the core ideas around which the material and non-material components of that civilization are constructed. This is not an issue of energy or the cost of energy – the decline sets in when the core ideas cannot deal with changed circumstance.

    I also briefly outlined my description of the birth and death of cultures and civilizations.

    I understand that the dominance of the states that are part of the Western Civilization on others is something to be both deplored and resisted but that does not detract from achievements of that civilization – which has been freely and charitably been given to the rest of the world.

    Many Muslims are alive today because of the Western Medicine.

    And historically, the effects of Western Civilization has not been all negative; the English, out of sense of moral outrage, stopped the burning of the windows in India.

    And Iran adopted the ideas of separation of powers, parliament, elections from Europe.

    I do not believe that there is yet a theory of civilizational decline since such a theory must address itself, in my opinion, to the explanation of why ideas die and how.

  347. Fiorangela says:

    Amir says:
    June 20, 2015 at 9:44 am

    I think what you meant is that you are not as cynical as I am.

    USA and its colleagues continually say that “Iran hates the USA and wants to kill us; we know this because Iranian crowds say “Death to America” at their Friday prayer time.

    I once heard a Columbia University professor explain that the Farsi words for “Death to America” are exactly the same as “Down with America.” There is no other way to say “Down with America” than by using the Farsi words that can also be translated “Death to America.”

    The USA is doing everything it can to destroy Iran’s economy and incite the Iranian people against their government.
    Iranian scientists have been killed; Iranian technology has been infected with a virus. Iran has been threatened with war, etc.

    If USA is bullying Iran, what do people expect Iranians to say — “We love you, America?” “Up with America?”
    Is that rational?

    No, it’s not. When a population is being bullied and harmed one expresses outrage, resistance and defiance.

    But I think the Iranian people are smarter than any ten members of US Congress combined.
    I think Iranians are capable of seeing through the robotic closed loopedness that passes for thought among American Think Tankers.

    So if Iranian crowds started chanting, “Thank you America,” American politicians & influence peddlers would blow a fuse; their wiring would short-circuit; it would drive them crazy. They would not know how to respond.

    It would be hilarious.
    And the Iranian people could stand back and laugh as the world observes the foolishness of American bullies.

  348. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    June 20, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    In the words of a friend of mine – in regards to “Death to America” slogan:

    “This is the cry of a Great People who have been humiliated.”

    I think that sense of national anger and of having been insulted takes a long time to dissipate.

  349. pragmatic says:

    I meant my principles have not changed in forth four years. Rest assured my political views have changed.

    I said indirectly the US actions since 9/11 has been in our favor, not per se they did it for Iran!

    You said “What have we seen from USA to indicate this? “.. Just sitting on the table and negotiate with us for such a long time! At the same time ignore their best ally Israel and let her bark!

    You said “3) During Ahmadenijad’s time, he shook things up. Before that, it was “you steal and I will steal, and let’s keep both our mouths shut”. But for the first time, corruption was TALKED ABOUT OPENLY. The first stage of resolving a problem is to acknowledge it. And for the first time we did.

    But maybe you mean that during Rafsanjani’s time, there was no corruption, and all those overnight billionaires were all lottery winners.

    You see that was Ahmadinejad’s game, for 8 years he had the name of corrupts in his pocket, and obviously we fund out who they were! His own team. We did not have as many new rich billionaires as we had during Ahmadinejad. During Hashemi the population of Tehran were 5 to 6 million people, we didn’t have all this high rises. Ahmadinejad opened the door to many to steal money ($800 billion oil and gas were sold). You want to tell me we had more DOZD and billionaire during Hashemi?! Come on lets end our discussion here! You see why I say you guys distort the facts in your own favor?

    I like to look at your math in regards to prostitution and ………
    I am sure you are going to show me due to increase of population and the factor …..
    No I don’t agree if that is your argument. Again, you guys all are living abroad and you are away from the realities in Iran, especially Tehran and its suburbs.

    Ahamdinejad was given a task, he is done and gone. People of Iran don’t like him.

  350. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 20, 2015 at 11:48 pm

    No, I suppose they do not like him any more.

    But he was giving them what they wanted; outward piety in their president which is what the electorate had been craving…

  351. pragmatic says:

    During Hashemi “the biggest politician in Iran ever” did you see all these luxury cars in the streets?

    Hashemi family is the only thieves in Iran?
    All the other clergy sons and daughters are immaculate (masoom)?
    What kind of a country did Hashemi inherit after 8 years of war?
    You guys hate Hashmei because he sees beyond the box and he see the future. Why is that Imam most trusted individual was Hashemi. You are questioning Imam by putting down Hashemi. But in the end, as I indicated most of you do not approve of velayat faghih, Imam and even Ayat. Khameinie.

  352. pragmatic says:

    Fellan ke Hashemi dareh amsaleh Janati, Ahamd Khatami and Mesbah va ….ro darseh seeyasee mideh :) He is by far smarter than them and he has a big base amongst Iranian people on the contrary to what you guys think.

    Let me repeat myself, you guys are far away from the realities, because you do not live here.

    Just look, you guys thought he is done and gone and then you saw he make a new president for Iran.

  353. pragmatic says:

    In regards to our negotiations with 5+1, one thing that I have noticed is Iraqchi. What he says in his interviews are much closer to the reality. Please pay attention next time. Zarif’s is mostly yeki be nal yeki be mikh.,, (BTW, talking about mikh o naal, deeb has not returned to his tavileh yet, keeper informed me. we are worried)..Animal Protection Organization has placed an alert state wide. If you see a mule please notify the ASAP.

  354. Smith says:

    Everything is fine in this Madineh Fazeleh: http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/64568/%D8%A2%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%BA%DB%8C%D8%B1-%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%85%DB%8C-%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%B2%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AE%DB%8C%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86

    Hang anyone who does not agree with “everything being fine”. No need to change course. Stay. Hang the critics. This is the ideology of Isis.

  355. pragmatic says:

    Thanks for the post. As it said the prostitution is increasing nationwide and the age if prostitution has dropped to 12 years old. Please my comment my critics. I’d like to hear your pretense.

    I’m out.

  356. Smith says:

    Where are we going? http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/423952/%D8%A2%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%AA%DA%A9%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AF%D9%87%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%87-%D9%85%D8%AC%D9%84%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%B7-%D8%AC%D9%86%D8%B3%DB%8C-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86

    Above I had linked to Hojatol-Islam-Valmulsmin Dr Jafarian view on how things are. Everyone should read this several times.

    چرا بعد از انقلاب، چهره‌هایی مانند شریعتی نداریم که در فضای دانشگاهی، بتواند ذهن و دل جوانان را متوجه مسائل دینی کند و پرسش‌ساز باشد و با چنین استقبالی مواجه شود؟ فضای فکری و دانشگاهی جامعه توان بازتولید چنین شخصیت‌هایی را ندارد؟ یا هستند ولی دانشگاهیان و جوانان، اقبالی نشان نمی‌دهند؟ یا اینکه حاکمیت چنین فضایی را برنمی‌تابد؟

    به نظرم 30 سال قبل از شریعتی، تلاش‌های زیادی برای یک انقلاب دینی صورت گرفته بود. او در مسیر آن تلاش‌ها قرار گرفت و با نگاه متفاوت و گفتمان شگفت خود، مجموعه‌ای را که امام(ره) در رأس آن قرار داشت تکمیل کرد. این مجموعه با امام(ره) مسیر خود را پیدا کرد و همه چیز سرجایش قرار گرفت و یک انقلاب دینی که بعد از سرخوردگی از مشروطه مطرح می‌شد و این‌که اگر دین بیاید دنیا را اصلاح می‌کند، پدید آمد. حالا مقصودم الان است، دیگر بناست چه اتفاقی بیفتد؟ تجربه دولت نبوی و علوی و زندگی زینبی و حسینی و همه اینها تجربه شده و محصول آن یک دولتی است که پدیده آمده است. قرار نیست این مجموعه دوباره انقلابی بکند و با ایده‌هایی که دارد راه دیگری را برود. بنابراین اساسا فکرش را نکنید که چرا مثل آنها نیست. قرار است چه اتفاقی بیفتد؟ حالا کسانی از مخالفان انقلاب، برای نوعی دیگر از انقلاب کار می‌کنند و باید دید بین آنها مثلا کسی پیدا می‌شود که آن‌طور باشد یا این‌طور. معمولا موج‌های مخالف است که این‌طور گل می‌کند. الان برای مجموعه حاضر انقلاب، علما و تئوریسین‌هایی هستند. کاری به مراجع دینی اصلی ندارم، آنها که همان نظام سنتی دین را عرضه می‌کنند. مقصودم کسانی است که برای حل و فصل معضلات فکری راه حل می‌دهند؛ آقای طائب، صدیقی و بسیاری دیگر که نمونه برخی از جریان‌ها هستند. طبعا در تاریخ تشیع جریان‌های فکری مختلفی بوده است و هر جریان نمایندگان خود را دارد. شیعه اخباری و غالی و تندرو تا شیعه اصلاحی و اعتدالی و خردگرا. آدمی که مسائلش را با خواب و داستان و استخاره حل و فصل می‌کند و آدمی که به این حرف‌ها پایبند نیست و یک نگرش عقلی دارد، نمونه‌ای از این نمایندگان جریان‌های فکری مختلف هستند. افرادی هم ترکیبی از اینها هستند. در اینجا گاهی منتقد پیدا می‌شود، گاهی مدافع برخی از نگاه‌ها، و کسانی هم جریان‌های فکری خاص خود را با مریدان خویش دارند. اما آنچه آن روزگار را پدید آورد مسیری بود که به یک انقلاب منتهی شد و آن شرایط فعلا تکرارپذیر نیست. بنابراین دنبال شریعتی و مطهری نگردید. البته هستند کسانی که در حرف زدن و نصیحت کردن و انتقادی برخورد کردن، ادای شریعتی را درمی‌آورند، اما اینها اساسا زمان را عوضی گرفته‌اند. اتفاقا اینها هم به همان اندازه سواد دارند و فکر می‌کنند اگر ادای او را درآورند کار درست می‌شود. در حالی که نه ادب او را دارند نه ادبیات او و نه اصلا زمان آن زمان است، و نه تجربه انقلاب و آن روحی که در مردم دمیده شد و آن وضعیت را پدید آورد، وجود دارد. به نظرم الان نوعی سردرگمی هست که چیز بدی هم نیست. زاییده تغییر شرایط و تصادم افکار قدیمی با آن است که نیاز به تجدید را پدید می‌آورد.

    در این میان روشنفکری دینی شکست‌های فاحشی خورده و چندین تجربه آن از شریعتی تا سروش و مجاهدین و دیگر جریان‌ها شکست را تحمل کرده است. مدل‌های جدید آن هم که روی اخلاق تکیه می‌کند، گرچه قشنگ است ولی خیلی واقع‌گرا نیست و در این دنیای خشن راه به جایی نخواهد برد. دنیای اسلامی که داعش تولید می‌کند اینجا هم ممکن است و الزاما تندرو تولید می‌کند. دست ما نیست که چه دستوری بدهیم. در عصر ما فکرهای سنتی هم شکست‌های خاص خود را دارد که البته با مغفول گذاشتن بخشی از دین و تن دادن به برخی از تغییرات، امورات خود را می‌گذراند. گاهی هم در تمسک به برخی از شعائر دینی تندروی می‌کند که خود را و حضورش را پررنگ‌تر کند. یک عرف و عرفیات سنگینی هم از قبل بوده و حالا هم تولید شده، اینها هم به اداره امور در کنار شرع سنتی و برخی از نوگرایی‌ها و روشنفکری‌های مذهبی کمک می‌کند. یک ملغمه‌ای شده است که حکومت و حوزه صورت‌بندی آن را برعهده دارند و آن را ادامه می‌دهند. اوضاع اینها جوری است که فکر نمی‌کنید تغییری در اوضاع و احوال روی داده اما در واقع خیلی چیزها عوض شده است. به هر حال اوضاع شکننده هست اما عجالتا استوارتر از این هم چیزی نیست. یک عیب اصلی آن درآمیختگی سیاست با دینداری است که بسیاری آن را از نان شب واجب‌تر می‌دانند، و توجیهات وجیه و غیروجیه زیادی دارند، اما به هر حال به اعتراف بسیاری، جنبه‌هایی از آن تأثیر منفی جدی روی برداشت‌های دینی و تلقی جوانان از دین گذاشته که راهی هم برای اصلاح آن طرح نشده است.

    Pay close attention to:

    دیگر بناست چه اتفاقی بیفتد؟ تجربه دولت نبوی و علوی و زندگی زینبی و حسینی و همه اینها تجربه شده و محصول آن یک دولتی است که پدیده آمده است.


    دنیای اسلامی که داعش تولید می‌کند اینجا هم ممکن است و الزاما تندرو تولید می‌کند.


    یک عیب اصلی آن درآمیختگی سیاست با دینداری است که بسیاری آن را از نان شب واجب‌تر می‌دانند

    This is coming from an original researcher and thinker of Islam. In short we have deep religio-cultural problems. Only those zombies who want to go back to 6th century can not see it.

    Go figure.

  357. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 20, 2015 at 9:57 am

    He is a nut case. A Ghazali fossil, championing unthinking. It would have been better for him and Iran if he would have been a kalimi instead of a kalami.

  358. Karl.. says:

    June 20, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Empires come and go, surely the arabs, muslims arent against America because they produce medicines. Its like Bush tried to say, they are against us because they hate the freedom we have.

  359. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Dr.Jafarian overstates the case and contrary to what you claim offers nothing new after his criticism.

    The beautiful thing is that I have discussed all this with him, while you are just- once again- cutting and pasting what others are saying without having any original thoughts yourself. That’s the difference between the two of us.

    And of course- as usual- you would rather call people you disagree with names rather than actually read their books. If you weren’t such an idiot and had actually read Ayat. Misbah’s books would know that he is quite anti-Ghazali. But unlike you, he has actually read Ghazali before criticizing him. That’s the difference between a real scholar and douchebag wanna-be like you.

    In the case of Dr. Jafarian whom I like on a personal level, the fact that one wears an amame doesn’t make a religious scholar. The same is true of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. More businessman with turban than religious scholar.

    Dr. Jafarian is nice guy but he is more a historian that wears a turban, not a religious scholar who also studies history. And there is nothing wrong with being a historian, but that’s different than somebody claiming to speak for Islam authoritatively.

    He offers nothing new after making a criticisms that are reminiscent of things we heard before the revolution.

    BTW, the same is true of Dr.Shariati whose family are old family friends of ours. His father was close friends with my grandfather. He was good at the time of the revolution for getting westernized and westoxicated people to reconsider Islam, he wrote well, but in the end he offered nothing new.

    Like Muhammad Javad Larijani said about him: He didn’t understand philosophy well, so he started shouting. Kinda like you and Dr. Jafarian.

    You can defame, insult whatever Ayat. Misbah, Ayat. Javadi etc. as much as you want but we all know you haven’t a read their books so your opinion doesn’t have much credibility.

    Imam and Agha have shown us the path- not only intellectually but also practically- and we have established a state, government and with God’s help leading to a new glorious era in Islamic civilization with all the “complexity” that this entails.

    That’s what really burns your asses. It’s one thing to engage in academic debates, it’s another thing to establish a state and government with all this means strategically and historically. Well with God’s help we did it- go suck on it.

    You and Dr. Jafarian and old man and whoever are either part of this beautiful journey or not.

    It’s your choice.

  360. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Very active writing the bullshit that was new 10 years ago. It’s the end of the month, don’t forget to ask the godfather to give a bonus for next month.

    Love the dear shahid-parvar people of Najafabad and hard-working people of Karaj.

    Apparently you are the exception that proves the rule.

    You’re 68 years old and probably to old to undo the brain-wahing you received about Don Akbar. This is what’s called a wasted life.

    I mean it’s one thing to go hell because of your own views. But you’re going to hell because of Hashemi Rafsanjani. You’re an idiot.

    BTW, the bullshit you write about other people has no effect on the reality that Don Akbar is a criminal and US agent. I explained it to you before.

    You can call whoever you want whatever you want, that changes nothing about the fact that Haji is a criminal and hated by most Iranians.

    BTW we all live in Iran. The ones who don’t “live” in Iran are Haji and his mafia in Jamaran. When was the last time Haji went shopping for milk on his own? 30 years ago? 40 years ago? When he was 9 and his baba sent him to get milk from the cows in Rafsanjan?

    Do you know why TV never has the sound on when they show Hashemi walking in a crowd? Because if they did you would hear everybody cursing him. Do you why they never show him in a wide-shot when he’s walking in a crowd? Because you would see people yelling at him.

    You live in the Rafsanjani crime-family phantasy bubble. Enjoy.

  361. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    ‘Saudi Arabia invested a lot in Washington – no surprise it’s shielded from media criticism’


  362. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Russian military to order major research to counter ‘color revolutions’


  363. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    “…which has been freely and charitably been given to the rest of the world.”

    This sentence proves your pathological mental detachment from reality.

    You need a doctor.

    When a person disregards history and vast empirical data to the contrary of his “view”, that’s called “mental illness”, not an “opinion”.

    The unfortunate thing is that you say these things and others like douchi and Nasser are influenced.

    The moral responsibility of whatever happens to an apparently emotionally unstable person like douchi is on you old man.

  364. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    You will not and cannot acknowledge the massive violence and mass murder that is an essential part of western civilization.

    Why? Because maybe you have a mental problem, because no honest, curious, truth seeking person, scholar, muleteer can deny that historical fact.

    This is why the vast majority of people in the world are hostile to western civilization. Get it? I doubt you do and if you understand and refuse to acknowledge you are being a stubborn Iranian fool as you would put yourself.

    You wanna know something else? This massive violence is also why so many people from WITHIN western civilization are hostile to it- you know the poor, rural uneducated “scum” peasants you love to hate. Like I said the worst are immigrant up-starts like you.

    Keep posting your musings and get a clean jerk-off from poor souls like Smith if that’s what makes your final days meaningful.

    Truly and utterly pathetic.

  365. M. Ali says:


    I think it would be much more fruitful to debate if we try to be…pragmatic about things.

    On USA, Our New Best Friend: “Just sitting on the table and negotiate with us for such a long time! “ I notice this a lot from the current administrator. They look at being talked to as an achievement. Of course, USA will talk to us if they think they can get what they want with the most minimum cost.

    But exactly what is the real crux of the talks? We are supposed to give up certain of our sovereign rights in exchange for…reduction of sanctions? This is somehow something we should be proud of? Why WOULDN’T the USA talk to us?

    Wake me up, when we are talking on equal terms. Otherwise, let’s not pretend USA is talking to a potential sovereign ally.

    Of course, we CAN be an ally of USA. It’s easy. Just look what Pakistan & Jordan & Saudi Arabia are doing, and do that, and then we can all be proud that we are USA’s good pal.

    On Corruption & Phases:

    You jump around here a lot. You pop in and suddenly talk about population by saying, “During Hashemi the population of Tehran were 5 to 6 million people”. I don’t understand this. Is this good or bad? In the 1950s, it was 1.5 million. Can you expand more on this?

    “You want to tell me we had more DOZD and billionaire during Hashemi?! Come on lets end our discussion here! You see why I say you guys distort the facts in your own favor?”

    I haven’t made any absolute statements either way. To make an absolute statement, I would need unbiased data that tracks corruptions year by year. However, the statement I made, and I stand by, is that for the first time, corruption was EXPOSED and TALKED ABOUT OPENLY. This is essential and this is a very important progress for a country.

    It’s like rape. One of the ways that rape data goes on the rise on a country is when the country starts reporting it, taking actions, and gives courage to its citizens to report it. On paper and on the news, we hear more about rape, so certain people moan about it and say that rape is on the rise. That’s not so. Here I am using rape as an example, I am making no statement on rape on Iran.

    On Happy Endings & Logic: “I like to look at your math in regards to prostitution and ………I am sure you are going to show me due to increase of population and the factor …..
    No I don’t agree if that is your argument”

    My argument was to make a statement one should try to back it up. Sometimes when your opponents mention something, you just try to look for absolutes.

    Let me explain this more using the prostitution topic and I will try to relate it to how emotionally and illogically people debate.

    In an older post, Smith said, “I think prostitution has increased by a factor of 1000 at least.” This is a statement that needs to be backed up, wouldn’t you agree? What’s the first point of comparison, what’s the second point, divide the difference, and see if it is 1000 increase.

    Here is how I tried to disprove that back then.

    “2 minutes of google search shows me a red light district during shah’s time called Shahr No. One data says that 1500 prostitutes lived in that area. This is just one area in full of Tehran. Would you say it is reasonable to say that at least, at the most minimum and cautious estimate, that at least four times that number would be a reasonable estimate for full of Iran at that time? Okay, so that would make 6000 prostitutes, a very small number, but hey, I’ll give you that. Multiply that by your 1000 percentage (at least, as per you), and that gives us 6 million prostitutes in Iran today.

    Okay, with me so far?

    So, lets continue. Iran has an estimate population of 75 million people. That already makes 7.5% Iranians whores, according to you. But lets just take the women, and just take women from age 15-49 (Iranian men love them young and love them old), that gives us 22 million. That means 27% of them are whores. With a quarter women whore population, who are prostitutes for fun and political dissent, why are you so worried about the White Men coming in and Raping us? Apparently, in your reality, one-fourth of our women are whores anyway. ”

    Now look at Smith’s latest link. A link from ’09 claims that 300,000 women in Tehran are prostitutes. We always seem to look for information we agree with. Where did he get this stat from? Like all the intellectuals here, everyone just loves taking figures out of his ass. But this itself poses 2 problems:

    1) Smith said 1000 increase. Shahr No red district in Shah’s time had 1500 prostitutes. If we just use that district alone, we get 1.5 million prostitutes in Tehran, so already Smith proved himself wrong using his own source

    2) However, 300,000 women doesn’t make sense either. This is from 1385, so 10 years ago, the poulation at that time of Tehran was 7.5 million. No, let’s choose the 15-54 segment, which is 64.8% of the population, so let’s use that for Tehran. Out of 7.5 million, this will give us 4.86 million. Now this data is looking at women, so we have to half that, which we will not get 2.43 million. 300 thousand out of this is, 12.3%. Does this seem correct to you that 12% of Tehran’s female population, between the age of 15-24, are prostitutes? That would probably make Tehran sex capital of the world! Wow, tourists could come to Tehran, and know that 1 out of every 10 Iranian girl is a sex worker. Even Bangkok isn’t like that!

    This is what I mean by FACTS. Everyone is talking and talking and talking about thinking and white people brains, but no one brings up FACTS.

    On Worth of an Iranian: To move on, you keep saying things like, ” you guys all are living abroad and you are away from the realities in Iran, especially Tehran and its suburbs.”

    I LIVE IN IRAN. I already said this! I used to be abroad but I came back to my home country and have been living here for 6 years.

    But when it comes to debates, it shouldn’t matter anyway. The content is important. It’s like going to a male doctor when your wife is pregnant and then ignoring him saying, “WELL HAVE YOU BEEN PREGNANT YOURSELF?? THEN SHUT UP!!” One of the best posters here, when we were debating the elections of 09 a few years ago, was a American lawyer. He was the only one here who tried to back every single thing with a logical fact. It didn’t matter that he didn’t live in Iran or was an Iranian but his argument was sound, logical, and made sense.

    On Cars: “During Hashemi “the biggest politician in Iran ever” did you see all these luxury cars in the streets?”

    Again, what are you here arguing? Do you see more luxury cars in Karachi or London? Is our aim to be more like Karachi?

    You argue like a politician. I see the exact same statements when I watch 20:30 news.
    Every wants to be a populist even when they claim to attack populist politicians.

    On Hashemi:

    “Hashemi family is the only thieves in Iran?”

    I never said that.

    “All the other clergy sons and daughters are immaculate (masoom)?”

    I never said that.

    “What kind of a country did Hashemi inherit after 8 years of war?”

    Hashemi did a lot of good, I respect the guy.

    “You guys hate Hashmei because he sees beyond the box and he see the future. Why is that Imam most trusted individual was Hashemi. You are questioning Imam by putting down Hashemi. But in the end, as I indicated most of you do not approve of velayat faghih, Imam and even Ayat. Khameinie.”

    I don’t hate Hashemi. But, as a Sunni, I find your last argument amusing. You say that Imam liked Hashemi, so by disliking Hashemi, you are questioning Imam. *ahem* That’s exactly what Sunnis generally say when Shias talk about Omar and Abu Bakr….haha.

    Anyway, I want to repeat. I don’t hate Hashemi. Maybe others here or there do, but I don’t.

  366. M. Ali says:


    On Being Beholden to Slave Owners

    Arguments from George Fitzhugh in 1857,

    “The Negro slave is free, too, when the labors of the day are over, and free in mind as well as body, for the master provides food, raiment, house, fuel, and everything else necessary to the physical well-being of himself and family. ”

    “The Negro slaves of the South are the happiest, and, in some sense, the freest people in the world. The children and the aged and infirm work not at all, and yet have all the comforts and necessaries of life provided for them. They enjoy liberty, because they are oppressed neither by care nor labor. The women do little hard work, and are protected from the despotism of their husbands by their masters. The Negro men and stout boys work, on the average, in good weather, not more than nine hours a day. The balance of their time is spent in perfect abandon. Besides, they have their Sabbaths and holidays. ”

    Another statement,
    “A merrier being does not exist on the face of the globe, than the negro slave of the United States. ”

    Here’s a scenario. Two African twins are separated. One becomes a slave in USA while the other remains in his village.

    20 years later, they both get some genetic disease. The slaveowner, not wanting to lose his slave, gives him medicine, and he becomes better. His twin, who has no access to such medicine, dies.

    Therefore, do we conclude that slavery is beneficial and that all black people should have begged USA to take them in as slaves, and that should we look at USA’s slave holding mentality as an aspiration?

  367. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    M Ali,

    Remember for old man keeping his rotting corpse alive is the most important thing.

    So yes, in his world the slave twin would be better off and the free twin worse because he’s dead.

    When you are spiritually dead, all his bullshit makes sense.

    I’m saying this because- let us not forget- that he is a self-declared racist who thinks that African children re incapable of learning math- and I’m sure he thinks slavery of Africans was “free and charitable gift” of western civilization to inferior Africans.

    You might have openend pandora’s box. Yikes!

  368. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Oh no! Reality disproves the old asshole racist!

    Nigerian student solves historically difficult maths equation in first semester at university



    “A Nigerian student achieved the highest grades at a university in Japan for 50 years and solved a maths puzzle in his first semester that was unsolvable 30 years ago.

    Ufot Ekong, who studied at Tokai University in Tokyo, achieved a first class degree in electrical engineering and scored the best marks at the university since 1965, the Flotilla Magazine reported.

    He began his success early at the university, solving a 30-year-old maths equation in his first semester.

    Throughout his university career Mr Ekong won six awards for academic excellence.

    The mathematician worked two jobs alongside his studies to pay his way as a student.

    Mr Ekong also speaks English, French, Japanese and Yoruba and won a Japanese language award for foreigners. He is currently working for Nissan and already has two patents for electronic car design to his name.”

  369. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 20, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Even to criticize needs a functional mind. These unthinking bunch can not even put forward a coherent rational argument. To criticize West, they need West to provide arguments for them so that they can go on, copy pasting them around.

    And then there is this deep jealousy (a cardinal sin in Islam), that they hold against West. Typical cargo cult. Their appeal to eschatology in this regard, is really funny. Much like the fox and the grapes fable. It is like the jealousy of unthinking reactionary parents of retarded kids who when confronted with a bright kid, argue that his brightness is useless since he might get cancer and die. This is the intellectual level we are dealing with. Pathetic. It would be as if, one asks what will happen if tomorrow God forbid, a 7.8 Richter earthquake hits Tehran? Does Iran have the capacity to deal with such a calamity? Will Iran beg for help from USA? What about Israel?

    Instead of using their brains, they bring in every kind of logical fallacy to support their unthinking opinion about the world from moral high ground to inflation of conflict to moving the goal posts. All to satisfy their kettle logic.

    This is where, what Hojatol-Islam-Valmuslemin Dr Jafarian says, is right as I have linked it above:

    یک تمدن نیاز به خرد شدن استخوان نسلهای زیادی دارد که با وقت گذاشتن، ذره ذره بر علم و دانش و تمدن افزوده اند و آن هم نه در یک شاخه بلکه در همه شاخه ها کوشیده اند و مهم تر از همه در سایه یک دانش حقوق که پاس حق همه فرهیختگان و افراد متفاوت اندیش را که می توانند راهی به آینده بگشایند فعالیت مستمر داشته اند. چیزی که حتی فهم آن برای برخی دشوار است

    But regardless of this, I will here counter this Western criticism of West brought up by the queen of unthinking. And I dedicate this rebuttal to you, Mr Fyi.

    Let’s assume, Mr Tainter’s assumption is true. That Mayan civilization died due to energy, cost and complexity. Though there is no evidence for this beyond historical speculation. But say we accept this premise. But to extend this premise to present day is fallacious. For reasons I enumerate below.

    1- Energy. Our present day concept of energy is completely different from that of ancient people. Because ancient people did not rely on science and principles of thermodynamics. They relied on “common wisdom” and myths. The only energy available to them was muscle power. This is very critical to understand. Before the West discovered the laws of thermodynamics and came with Carnot’s cycle, heat engines and electrical power, the only way to do useful work was by employing muscles whether of mules or muleteers. Except in some rare instances of using water streams or wind for grinding wheat, the economic impact of which being almost nothing.

    Now the muscles being biological, obey physiological rules which greatly limit their usefulness. For instance, the muscles being a biological tissue can not exceed limits of biochemistry so the maximum amount of energy they can generate, is quite limited. An able bodied male when well fed, can hardly on average produce 500 watts of useful mechanical energy per day over extended period of time without shortening his life span. Then there is the problem of disease, which in ancient times, its understanding was quite limited or almost non-existent.

    Another limitation is after a period of work, the muscles get “tired” due to accumulation of byproducts of cellular respiration in muscular tissue. So they need to rest. But while they rest unlike the machines, they still keep on using energy. Also their efficiency is quite low at about 20% of food consumed (if we include the rest period and non-productive activity then this figure goes further down alot). Thus even a slave force of mules and muleteers even if worked to death, under a ruthless management system can hardly surpass 10% thermal efficiency level.

    The West solved this problem by introducing other methods beside muscle power to generate energy for example the heat engines or the electrical motors. West has invented compact electrical motors that weigh only 20 kg but have a power output of over 500 heavy built human males with energy efficiency of 98%. It does not get tired either and no issue of morality arises even if one uses it like a slave: http://www.enstroj.si/Electric-products/emrax-268.html

    So even if ancient civilizations went down because they could not generate enough energy, due to physiological limitation of muscles, this is not true today.

    2- Cost. This is basically a function of scarcity of a needed resource. In case of muscles, the cost was a very complex issue. On one side the sociological aspect of it, was the need to manage the mules and muleteers. After all to what degree and for how long one could keep a people enslaved in order to use their muscles for building a civilization. Then there was the thermodynamic aspect which is even more important. The mules and muleteers depended on food as energy source. The food was always a scarcity in human history until West came up with technologies such as Haber process and modern agricultural sciences. Famines were common. So in effect, any industrial and civilization build up put huge stress over already scarce food resources competing with livelihood of people. This drove up the cost mostly in terms of human suffering.

    It continued until the West diversified humans energy sources. The energy for industry was decoupled from food. The heat engine rendered the misery of the mules un-needed and freed the muleteer to produce food only for his own survival and increasingly for his own luxurious lifestyle. The industrial processes of civilization shifted to use coal, hydrocarbon, hydroelectric, wind, nuclear, solar, geothermal, ocean waves etc etc as their sources of energy. Diversification of energy resources, brought down the cost of energy both in terms of human misery as well as economic cost.

    A single pressurized light water nuclear reactor with 1750 MWe output produces enough energy per day from just 5 kilograms of uranium, as would an army of 80 million human slaves. And this particular reactor is not even efficient with uranium consumption. For instance the breeder reactors can be over 100 times more efficient with amount of uranium or for that matter thorium they consume. That is they can produce more energy per day than an army of 80 million slaves with just less than 50 grams of uranium.

    What is the market cost of uranium? Well just about 100 dollars per kilo. Or even if we extract it from ocean water then about 500 dollars a kilo. Thorium is even more abundant and cheaper. There is enough uranium on planet earth alone which can meet the entire energy need of humanity at current level for over 30 million years when used in fast breeder reactors. And if we add thorium which is hundreds of times more abundant than uranium, then fissile nuclear fuel present on earth becomes an INEXHAUSTIBLE energy source.

    In modern scientific world, it is not the economical cost of energy arising from scarcity that is important, unlike in ancient world. The important is the political will and idealism of nations which has substituted the economic cost. For instance Germany wants to pay more for energy, as long as it is not nuclear. The cost is rather becoming a philosophical/ethical concept in modern world. This has nothing to do with ancient world when people and their food was the cost of economic prosperity. The only available cost available to them.

    And this is by no means the end of the story. The research into fusion technology is ongoing. Furthermore, the universe we are currently able to use, is just the 5% matter part. The rest of 95% of universe around us is composed of dark matter and dark energy which we have not been yet been able to put to use. The West is moving to tap into the rest of universe as well and if successful, with implications we can not even fathom.

    3- Complexity. Actually bureaucratic, social and cultural systems in West are quite simple compared to third world countries. There is more convoluted bureaucracy in any part of Islamic world than the entire West, East Asia, Russia and China combined. But these are the facts we all pretty much know. Let’s concentrate on scientific matters here. The complexity of technology.

    Complexity by itself is not a hindrance. It only becomes a hindrance if something is too complex to be understood. While this is often a problem for cargo cults since they can not understand imported technology and scientific method, this is hardly an issue for the West that has created the complexity in the first place.

    Take the example of steam engines. In the beginning it all started with very simple mechanics and over time became more and more complex as its efficiency was increased. As the steam engines became “mature”, the West invented internal combustion engine which took over. The internal combustion engines themselves became more and more complex as their efficiency and power to weight ratio increased. For instance the complexity of radial engines of World War II which were manufactured by Western farm girls whether in Germany or United States, was truly mind boggling. I doubt the entire Muslim world if they come together would have the intellectual capacity to manufacture the BMW 801 engine which German girls used to manufacture 75 years ago.

    But it did not stop there. Then Jet engines came, which took over the piston engines in aviation. The jet engine itself became more and more complex in order to meet the desires of the society designing it. This will go on until something else takes over.

    A people who truly believe in their intellectual capacity to solve problems, who believe in cause and effect and who do not live in a cargo cult, are not afraid of complexity. They thrive on it. They enjoy it. They surpass it. Complexity does not kill them. They rather grow with it.

    In the end we should not forget that it is Iran which is dependent on a single energy source namely raw oil and gas and it is Iran that has to import even its wheat from Germany, United States and Canada, let alone all the other technological products, medicines/medical equipment and everything else. If supposedly the productivity of West diminishes as per the ill (conceived) wishes of a cargo cult then it is the cargo cult which is going to suffer. Since this cargo cult is dependent on West even for its نان شب

  370. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 20, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Yes. His Incoherence of incoherence was really important but at the end inconsequential since it could not go further than Aristotelian system as you yourself mentioned. Basically they could not break grounds unlike the Western minds.

  371. M. Ali says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 21, 2015 at 5:54 am

    Oh no! Why did you post that! Now for the next four years, we have to hear about how Nigerian DNA is better than Irani DNA.

  372. M. Ali says:

    More wikileaks info from recent Saudi leaks,

    “Many of the scores of documents reviewed by AP appear aimed at keeping track of Iranian activity across the region or undermining Tehran’s interests. An undated memo apparently sent from the Saudi Embassy in Tehran made note of what it said was the “frustration of the Iranian citizen and his strong desire for regime change” and suggested ways to publicly expose Iran’s social grievances through “the Internet, social media like Facebook and Twitter.” It also suggests “hosting opposition figures overseas, co-ordinating with them and encouraging them to use galleries to show pictures of torture carried by the Iranian regime against people.””

  373. pragmatic says:

    Indeed 500K documents in regards to KSA is out. It goes back to what I said, the US is undermining Aleh Suad.

    The future would show us if the things I alluded to were correct. If not I accept my wrong contemplation. If it goes as I predicted, then I suggest you anti-pragmatic say goodbye to going to Tehran.

    Case closed.

  374. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    If you had read Chapter 4 and the conclusion you would have read Tainter addressing much of the bullshit you mentioned.

    It’s clear you haven’t read it cause you don’t even know what Tainter meant with “complexity”.

    You are, alas, the Iranian cargo cultist you abhor only you worship westerners.

    Inferiority complex and slave mentality are clearly manifested in you.

    Again, what you quoted from Dr. J adds nothing new to the discussion.

    Ironic that you would quote a sentence about the difficult work of building a civilization considering you haven’t done jackshit in your life that gets close to hard work.

    Again, put your cock down and read the book before opening your mouth.

    You are allowed to write something if it is giving us your definition of “culture”.

    Hint: Once you have done that, you will be asked to define “Iranian culture”.

    You see, scholarship is “hard work”, much harder than estelahan jerking off behind the computer screen.

    We’re waiting…

  375. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    You are a simpleton.

    Yes, of course in your Rafsanjani crime-family phantasy world IT’S THE US THAT IS RELEASING THE CABLES!

    Vaqan khejalat nemikeshi in sher-ha ro dar malae aam begi?

    I mean such theories are OK when sitting around with your bi-savad cousins from Najafabad who think you are special because you are a Rafsanjani bitch. But here? Khak tu saret!

    In the real world:

    The cables were hacked by the Yemenis and passed on to Wikileaks and the Saudis and AMERICANS are really pissed!

  376. pragmatic says:

    Ayatollah just said:

    آیت‌الله هاشمی: تزریق نقدینگی در 8 سال دولت قبل مانند مرض هاری بود/ روحانیت در معرفی احمدی نژاد مقصر است

  377. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    You know what, that would mean that the backward Yemeni A-rabs are capable of a sophisticated hacking operations.

    And ironically it’s the Saudis who are using white guys for their networks.

    No, no that can’t be! Impossible!

  378. pragmatic says:

    آن 8 سال کافی است برای این که مدت ها مثل هاری در بدن جامعه ما دائما تزریق سم بکند. مثل مرض هاری این حالت را دارد به جامعه ما می دهد و همش هم شعار بود. مثلا می گفتند عصر ظهور و آمدن امام زمان(عج) است. علنی نمی شود این حرفها (رو زد) ولی هنوز هم می زنند. آنطرف تر که رفتند می زنند این حرف ها را. روحانیت هم انصافا مقصرند در معرفی او (احمدی نژاد) و حمایت از او که هنوز هم خیلی هایشان دست برنداشته اند!.

  379. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    Go ask Don Akbar about his responsibility of multiplying money supply through bullshit bank credits to his mafia clan during his administration.

    Oh sorry I forgot! You’re his bitch and not allowed to question the Don!

  380. pragmatic says:

    مدیر عامل اسبق منطقه آزاد قشم بازداشت شد

  381. pragmatic says:

    US when ever they want the ask asanj (wikileaks) leak certain news! Vay tu che ghadr bachehi. You really think Yemenis did it. OMG

    I rest. I do not want to talk to you anymore.. Har che ghadr mikhahie fohsh bedeh

    Only one post after this…

  382. pragmatic says:

    Who is he?
    Quotes from our esteemed scholar, genius, knows it all! He claims he is a devoted Muslim too. It’s all profanity that comes out of his mouth.

    “Bill of Rights, my ass…”,
    “you’re losing your shit cuz”,
    “you and the guys you falsely put your hopes into are donkeys and you’re all stuck in sticky shit.”
    “Looks like the US doesn’t give a shit which sand-n****r is President”.
    “to the Americans you’re a sand-n****r”,
    “this in turn let’s us understand why assorted douchebags”
    “(contrary to douchebags claims)”
    “Assorted douchebag dalals”,
    “And of course- as usual- you would rather call people you disagree with names rather than actually read their books.” ,
    “That’s the difference between a real scholar and douchebag wanna-be like you.”
    “That’s what really burns your asses.”
    “Well with God’s help we did it- go suck on it.”
    “Very active writing the bullshit that was new 10 years ago”,
    “You’re 68 years old and probably too old to undo the brain-washing you received about Don Akbar. This is what’s called a wasted life.”
    I mean it’s one thing to go hell because of your own views. But you’re going to hell because of Hashemi Rafsanjani. You’re an idiot.”
    “that Don Akbar is a criminal and US agent.”
    “You can call whoever you want whatever you want, that changes nothing about the fact that Haji is a criminal and hated by most Iranians.”
    “The ones who don’t live” in Iran are Haji and his mafia in Jamaran.”
    This sentence proves your pathological mental detachment from reality.”
    “When a person disregards history and vast empirical data to the contrary of his “view”, that’s called “mental illness”, not an “opinion”.
    “The moral responsibility of whatever happens to an apparently emotionally unstable person like douchi is on you old man.”
    “Because maybe you have a mental problem”
    “you are being a stubborn Iranian fool as you would put yourself.”
    “Keep posting your musings and get a clean jerk-off from poor souls like Smith if that’s what makes your final days meaningful.”
    “Oh no! Reality disproves the old asshole racist!”
    “with God’s help- two-thumb bilakh”
    “Forget that old bullshit discussion.”
    “Just another asshole trying to divert the discussion. Fuck off already.”
    “bullshit discussion”
    “move on you idiots.”
    “The only four-legged animal-like “moqaled” I see here is you.”
    “Oh my God, what a fuckin douchebag!”
    “Unlike you monkey moqaled of everything western,” “You and pragmatic/mamur dafter-e riasat jumhuri”
    “ but for God’s sake shut the fuck up “in every fuckin post.” “Boro barye amat dua kon.” “ when somebody tells you to fuck off in response. Apparently you are too stupid to understand this.” “You are also too stupid”
    “ust look at the felan-sherhaye that he is writing…”pathetic”
    “Oh yes, I forgot your aziz Khatami-joon was sitting “humbly” crossed-legged at the feet of malun Saudi king Abdullah.”
    “vaqan khari”
    “good time to fuck off.”
    “Mousavi and Rafsanjani are certified US/western mamur, Rafsanjani is also the head of the most powerful crime family in Iran.”
    “The sooner you fuck off to Jamaran to hide under Akbar Shah’s aba the better. “
    ”Go tell your ameh about adab and akhlaq.”
    “Now fuck off please.”
    “Ignore that a-hole.”
    “You’re fuckin pathetic…”sandn****r like t” “
    “Fuckin idiot”
    ” asshole.”
    “You’re fuckin pathetic…”
    ” Put your cock down for a few days and read this:”
    “Tu ruhet oghde-i!”
    ” The writing is on the wall bitch!”

  383. M. Ali says:

    Pragmatic, are you one of those Iranians that think Khomeini was brought to power by UK/USA?

  384. pragmatic says:

    No I am not. Are you? BTW, you listen Abbassi?!

  385. pragmatic says:

    بسمه تعالی

    جناب آقای حاج سعید حدادیان

    مداح ارجمند اهل بیت عصمت و طهارت

    با سلام و آرزوی قبولی طاعات، اخیرا در یکی از سخنرانی هایتان بنده را دعا فرموده اید که از اظهار لطفتان ممنونم.این التفات بواسطه آن بود که گفته بودم آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی ۵۰ در صد تغییر یافته اند.این بزعم جنابعالی “اعتراف” در مورد ایشان که “عوض” شده اند آنقدر شما را بوجد می آورد که در حق بنده دعا می فرمایید.اما جناب حدادیان اگر لختی به صدر و ذیل آن “اعتراف” توجه می کردید شاید آنقدرها هم بنده رامستحق دعا نمی یافتید. مراد بنده از “تغییر” آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی آن بود که مشارالیه هم همچون بسیاری از چهره ها و شخصیت های دیگر انقلابی دهه ۶۰ که ما امروزه آنان را “اصلاح طلب” می نامیم پی برده اند که مهم تر از آمریکا ستیزی،غرب ستیزی،استکبار ستیزی و شعار مرگ بر اسراییل، تلاش در جهت استقرار دمکراسی،آزادی بیان،آزادی اندیشه،آزادی مطبوعات، انتخابات آزاد،حاکمیت قانون و این دست ارزشها می باشد. ارزش هایی که انقلاب اسلامی بواسطه تحقق آنها شکل گرفت. مع الاسف غرب ستیزی و آمریکا ستیزی که بعد از انقلاب براه افتاد بتدریج این ارزشها را کنار زد.

    فرموده بودید آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی می بایستی پاسخگوی عملیاتی که منجر به شهادت غواصان گردیده باشند. نفس پاسخگو بودن صد البته که کاملا درست است. اما فکر نمی کنید پیش و بیش از آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی، فرماندهان نظامی که طراحی و مسئولیت آن عملیات را برعهده داشتند و امروزه همچون قهرمانان و فاتحین ظاهر می شوند می بایستی پاسخگو باشند که آن ۱۷۵ غواص چگونه بدست عراقی ها اسیر شدند و بشهادت رسیدند؟ آیا فکر نمی کنید فرماندهان نظامی که امروز آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی را متهم می کنند که چرا مرحوم امام خمینی را وادار به پذیرش قطعنامه ۵۹۸ نمودند در حالیکه آنان همچنان توان ادامه جنگ را داشتند، خیلی بیشتر از ایشان می بایستی امروز پاسخگوی شکست آن عملیات باشند؟

    توهین به آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی و ایضا سایر مسئولین و چهره ها و شخصیت های سیاسی و دینی نظام و اساسا بکار گیری شیوه های مذموم توهین، بی احترامی، هتک حیثیت و حرمت، دادن نسبت های زشت و ناروا، مثل آب خوردن دروغ گفتن و استفاده از سایر رفتارهای غیراخلاقی مع الاسف مدتهاست که توسط عده ایی در این مملکت بصورت شیوه ایی رایج و عادی درآمده. نمی دانم اشاعه این روش های ناشایست چگونه با اهداف دیگرنظام همچون تهذیب و اصلاح اخلاقی و مهندسی فرهنگی قابل تجمیع می باشند.

    جنابعالی، یاران و همفکرانتان با خیال راحت به صغیر و کبیر این مملکت که مورد غضب قرار گرفته اند هر چه را که بخواهید و هر ناسزا و توهینی که به ذهنتان می رسد را روا می دارید.این هم از الطاف خفیه است که اتفاقا هر قدر که شما بیشتر توهین روا می دارید محبوبیت آنان بیشتر می شود.

    در عین حال دریغم آمد این چند جمله را در قبال توهین هایی که به آقای هاشمی رفسنجانی در آن سخنرانی روا داشته بودید نگویم.فرموده بودید که ایشان بجای بازدید از جبهه ها و رفتن با کاروان راهیان نور، به کیش و جت اسکی می روند و…..من فرض می گیرم جناب حاج سعید حدادیان آنچه می گویید واقعیت دارد.با چنین مفروضه ای خدمتتان عرض می نمایم که ایکاش جنابعالی هم به کیش و جت اسکی تشریف می بردید اما در عوض ۶ میلیون جوان مملکت امروز بیکار نبودند؛ایکاش جنابعالی و همفکرانتان هم به کیش و جت اسکی می رفتید اما از در و دیوار مملکت پرونده فساد نمی ریخت؛ ایکاش جنابعالی هم عید نوروز به کیش و جت اسکی می رفتید اما صف فارغ التحصیلان بهترین دانشگاه های مان در مقابل سفارتخانه های غربی هر روز طولانی تر نمی شد؛ایکاش جنابعالی هم به جت اسکی می رفتید اما بفکر سرمایه گذاری و تامین آب مملکت هم می بودید؛ ایکاش جنابعالی هم به کیش می رفتید اما جنگل های مملکت بواسطه بی توجهی و کمبود امکانات این چنین در معرض نابودی قرار نمی گرفت؛ ایکاش جنابعالی هم به کیش و جت اسکی می رفتید اما درعوض محیط زیست مان در این حال و روز نبود؛ایکاش جنابعالی و یارانتان هم به کیش و جت اسکی می رفتید اما شمارهم میهنانتان که به زیر خط فقررفته اند چند برابر نشده بود؛ ایکاش و ایکاش و بازهم ایکاش………..

    ایام بکام باد

    صادق زیباکلام سی و یکم خردادماه یکهزاروسیصدونودوچهار

  386. Rehmat says:

    On Friday, the Israel-Firsts controlled US State Department (John Kerry & Victoria Nuland) released its annual “Terrorist Report”, which accuses Islamic Republic of Iran for supporting anti-Israel Palestinian and Lebanese groups, such as, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hizbullah. It also accused Tehran for helping governments of Syria and Baghdad to fight the USrael created ISIL/ISIS.

    As expected, the Report doesn’t mention American allies in the region like Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey and Qatar which are widely accused by the independent sources for arming and funding almost every terrorist militant group in the Middle East. The US itself stands accused of financing and arming militants in the region.

    In February 2015, US Congressman Jim Himes, accused the US and its anti-Iran allies in the Middle East for funding and arming various terrorist groups killing innocent people in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and Gaza.

    American philosopher of science, James Henry Fitzer, PhD, in recent interview he gave to Press TV, called both the US and Israel world’s top terrorist countries. Dr. Fitzer, a former US Marine, had taught at several American universities. He has long been declared a “conspiracy theorist” by the Organized Jewry for claiming that Zionist Jews were behind the Holocaust, JFK assassination, 9/11, 7/7, and even Charlie Hebdo terrorism.

    Commenting on the US accusations against Iran, Dr. Fitzer said: “There really can be no serious doubt that the United States and Israel are the two leading terrorist organizations in the world which is the reason why the Department of State has to make incoherent claims.”

    “The United States created the ISIS (ISIL), the United States is sponsoring the ISIS, the United States has opposed the United Nations’ declaration that ISIS is a terrorist organization,” Fetzer said.

    “The latest reports in fact have two high ranking advisers of ISIS, also Mossad agents being captured by American Special Forces in Iraq, which must have been inadvertence of the United States is supporting ISIS, which is widely known in Washington and it’s John McCain’s army,” he added.

    “The United States is a great sponsor of terrorism as is Israel, which occurs repeatedly around the world. We should be supporting Syria and Iran and not attacking them or seeking to undermine them,” Fetzer noted.


  387. Rehmat says:

    @ M. Ali – Forget what idiots like you think of Imam Khomeini. Listen to American Jewish scholar and diplomat Dr. Richard Falk what he thinks of Imam Khameini.

    US Author: Imam Khomeini established a real democracy in Iran


  388. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 21, 2015 at 5:58 am

    Thank your kind dedication.

    You might find Dr. Turchin’s work, “Historical Dynamics” of interest where he applies linear coupled first order differential equation to the study of the rise and fall of dynasties in agrarian societies – in China as well as elsewhere.


  389. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 21, 2015 at 9:28 am

    I generally agree with what he is saying – but note that Mr. Ahmadinejad and Mr. Masahei are not given any chance of defending themselves.

    As for the study of war – be advised there are many mistakes in the conduct of all wars and people die.

    There was a mock invasion of Normandy in the Irish Sea during World War II. More soldiers died during that simulation than during the landing at Normandy – for example.

    The worse aspect of all of this is the Lie – that Iran was victorious. Iran was defeated in Iran-Iraq War as long as we are unwilling to open that subject we cannot rationally and dispassionately prepare for the next wars.

  390. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 21, 2015 at 1:37 am

    I think this is an endemic problem within Iranian culture and is not specific to any social caste or class or groupings.

    Evidently, Iranians are not being brought up well either in their homes or in their schools.

  391. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    You are the most biadab and bitarbiat here in this forum defaming and insulting entire nations, races and civilizations.

    You are also bigheyrat for not defending your homeland and then you have the nerve to piss on about “namus”.

    You are a charlatan and have been recognized as such who enjoys having your cock sucked by mentally unstable people and simpletons.

  392. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    I never claimed to be a devout Muslim.

    The most important thing is that I’m not living in Agha Rafsanjani’s asshole like you do.

    Alhamdulillah Rabb-e al-Alemeen…

  393. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    What you idiots don’t understand is that having the honor of calling you names in this forum, is an end in itself.

    As long as you offer your bullshit on this forum, I’ll be here to call you “asshole”.

  394. nahid says:

    M. Ali says:

    June 21, 2015 at 8:44 am


    thanks, very true

  395. Amir says:

    Yesterday he was “khar” (sorry for the language), today he is Hojjat-al-eslam-valmoslemin Dr Jaffarian. Hmmmm…. Maybe I should start mouthing Smith’s words; at least he praises you when you repeat his opinions.

    Also, the day Mr Smith praises Rasoul Jaffarian, Jaffarian should take a hard look at himself.

    Not that anyone is paying any attention, but the Parliament (Majles) approved a bill that essentially gives the final say to the supreme national security council; how we ended here is a mystery, to me.

  396. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Of course, US/UK have nothing to do with ISIS…of course.

    How is it that thousands of westerns join ISIS without any action being taken by western governments?


    “That three women could disappear from the UK to take nine children into the heart of a war zone is incomprehensible,” Keith Vaz told the Mail on Sunday.

  397. pragmatic says:

    Basiji Jan Salam,
    I’m sure you don’t live in iran.
    If you don’t mind what is your degree in? If I surmise, I say history with minor in philosophy.
    Are you a profosor in America?
    Kind regards

  398. Amir says:

    Amir says:
    June 21, 2015 at 11:31 am

    I meant final say on nuclear dossier.

  399. pragmatic says:

    Amir Jan
    Listen to me.. The deal has been agreed on a few months back. As soon as it’s done you’ll see how powerfully our president is going after An and his team. More arrests on the way. As you read today ayatollah Hashemi has turned up the attacks. Wait and see how well defeat the tondroes in next elections.

  400. pragmatic says:

    Farvardin 1395 I’m gonna laugh so hard at our hardliners here. I’m sure a few are going to melt due to nervous breakdown

  401. pragmatic says:

    به قول عادل چه می کنه ایت الله هاشمی….

  402. Amir says:

    pragmatic says:
    June 21, 2015 at 11:47 am

    If the deal is finalized, then is the Leader giving speeches for himself, completely detached from reality, or trying to “butter us up”? Is that the extent of your… never mind. I thought you have ulterior motives, but you kept talking about agha said this, or agha did that.

    Agha says he wouldn’t allow interviews with scientists and security officials, the Americans say that’s part of verification process about PMD of our nuclear program; how do you square that?

    I know A DEAL has been forged for a few months, but THAT DEAL isn’t what the deal was supposed to be.

  403. pragmatic says:

    To rehmet and Smith.
    Deebdamini is full if shit. He has never seen or talked to jafarian. He makes up stories.
    He is physically unbalanced, mentally disturbed and totally fucked up. This is do to his childhood molestation by a dark colored rafsanjani.

  404. pragmatic says:

    Amir aziz I’m sorry but you are a bit too sadegh and sadeh. Iran doesn’t have a choice to accept it. Baba Jan pesaram eghtesademoon naboodeh.

  405. pragmatic says:

    Don’t put your hopes too high that iran gets her wishes. Aghe man Doost goftam, fu ta toosari be deebdamini va gholame halgheh be doshesh koosy began.
    Vasalamo alykum

  406. pragmatic says:

    Amir Jan some say are only for internal usage. Welcome to politics.

  407. Amir says:

    Amir says:
    June 21, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Suddenly I realized what a foolish thing I have said! I’m so terribly sorry.

    Maybe it is my fitna (sedition); whether I would follow vali-e-amr even if he changes his words abruptly.

  408. Amir says:

    pragmatic says:
    June 21, 2015 at 12:14 pm

    I’m neither an economist nor a politician; I’m just a religious person and not a very good one at that. But the Leader explicitly stated there are no “behind the scene talks” and particularly no propaganda for domestic consumption (I remember this last one very clearly), so thanks, but I would stick to the official line, till that is changed.

    Also, I’m young and kind of naive, but I have heard a great many times that the Leader would change his line, and every time he has maintained course.

    So… maybe we should wait till everything is finished, no?

  409. M.Ali says:

    Amir, what is on your own opinion on,

    “Not that anyone is paying any attention, but the Parliament (Majles) approved a bill that essentially gives the final say to the supreme national security council; how we ended here is a mystery, to me.”

  410. pragmatic says:

    Well said m.Ali.

  411. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    June 21, 2015 at 3:50 am

    From a rational perspective you are quite right.

    But in human beings all over the world we are not dealing solely with creatures of Reason.

    The political will to overthrow the yoke – as it were – of the Western domination also has rekindled – on both sides – the Age Old antagonisms between Christianity and Islam.

    That is what we are facing.

    Had the Chinese, or Japanese, or Hindu Indians been exercising the same sort of dominion over the world of Islam for as many years, I am sure we world have been hearing about the “Heathen Chinese”, the “Pagan Japanese” and the “Heretic Indians” followed by virulent attacks on their culture and civilization.

    I also strongly believe that there is a anti-religious and anti-Islam current of thought and prejudice prevailing in the European Union. Some of it is because of the Anti-Papal Reformation, some due to anti-God Enlightenment Tradition, some because of the effect of Shoah on European culture, and some the old anti-Islam tradition of Christianity.

    Look at France for example: she harbors Muslim terrorists, the Mudjahedeen Khalq all the while maintaining that Iran is the enemy of the West.

    When you ask a Frenchman “Why?”, he says because Iran is the source of Islamism and then proceeds to mention the Chechens – as though Iran ever lifted a finger in support of the Chechens.

    The positions of France and Germany in regards to Iran are not rational – they are irrational and to me at least, smack of religious prejudice.

    Others in EU are even worse; Spain is totally dependent on what her betters in US or France or Germany tell her to believe, and they proceed to believe it.

    In Muslim polities, there is another dynamics at work. That is this:

    The modern world is built by Christians – it was the Christians that created a universal history when they circumnavigated the globe, invented new ways of organizing human beings that were more efficient as well as powerful in Peace and in War (examples: Common-stock corporation, Man-of-War) and generally established the norms of interactions of the current human world.

    You can either learn from them – in as much as you can – like the Japanese did and Chinese have finally started to do; or you can thrash around and waste your human and non-human capital in useless rhetoric or war.

  412. fyi says:

    nahid says:

    June 21, 2015 at 11:29 am

    I think this speaker is both unaware of the strategic context of the negotiations as well as history.

    For the first one, please refer to the posting of Mr. Ataune on this thread, his is a good summary.

    In regards to history – Iran existed 4 times as a state: Under Achaemenids, under Sassanids, under Safavids, and under Qajars and their inheritors to this day.

    You can say that Modern Iran started in 16-th century.

  413. Amir says:

    M.Ali says:
    June 21, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    The way I understood it, there was talk of a “protecting nuclear achievements” act; then suddenly the draft was removed from the day’s order of the day (by hey’at ra’ise), then it was returned to the floor, but the draft was modified after the speaker (Ali Larijani) said the current draft might limit the freedom of action of SNSC; the MP shouted marg-bar-amrika after it was approved 199-8 but the draft was modified in two points:
    1. The “results” should be submitted to the Parliament (instead of the accord itself)
    2. The sanctions should be lifted upon implementation of the deal instead of “signing” the deal.

    But, I didb’t understand what you meant. Could you please tell me your own opinion?

  414. fyi says:



    We read:

    “Foreign women as employees of embassies, the families of foreign teams or other foreign women living in Tehran are permitted to attend the men’s volleyball competitions,” the head of Iran’s Volleyball Federation, Mahmoud Afshardoust, told the IRNA news agency.”

    But not the Iranian women.

    An these fools want to counter the Western Civilization; all the time treating women of the Western Civilization better than the women of the Islamic Civilization.

    It is very very clear who is being treated and given more respect by which culture.

  415. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 21, 2015 at 1:00 pm

    And what about the Italians? Are they as bad in your opinion? I found them to be the sanest with regard to Russia and even Iran. Some Italians told me they were arm twisted on Libya by the French and are quite bitter about it.

  416. kooshy says:

    nahid says:
    June 21, 2015 at 11:29 am
    M. Ali says:

    June 21, 2015 at 8:44 am


    M. Ali same here thanks for posting the link, IMO Mr. Abbasi is very correct, this a generational old fight, what E. Saeed called orientalism. There are those Iranians like Vosough-ol-dooleh that they deeply believe the westerners are superior to easterners, and therefore we should submit to them rather than trying to catchup to them.
    As you can observe on this website alone, the trios Zios and pathetic pest types, each for different reason can come to have the same goal of making you accept that submitting to westerners is your only choice since scientifically, economically, and militarily they are superior to you, deep inside like Geffrey Goldberg they hate this GTT site’ purpose = Nixon going to China theory, because, on this issue it proves them wrong, since when out of extreme desperation, US ended up going and kissing Mao’s ass to let them go, China economically, militarily, and scientifically wasn’t even one 10th of US or USSR. What china had that US couldn’t break or take away, in any which way possible they tried (even making a small island off mainland representing China with UN veto power) was her resistance to outside powers to Undo her independence. This line of propaganda warfare that trios zios for their own reasons and some Nfahm wana be oligarch Iranians fallow is an old colonial technique of sanctioning your will to resist by besieging your brain to access your capabilities. I don’t think will work no matter how much they tried and will try, as long as there is Iranians there Like Mr. Abassi who are allowed to talk and have audience.

  417. pragmatic says:

    Another hardcore Osoolgara named Ghalibaf.
    He’ll be changed in 2+ months


  418. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    June 20, 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Your comment was addressed to me but not to my point.

    It is not my intent to answer for the Pakistanis, or anyone else for that matter – anecdotes are a plenty.

    It is important not to confound western scientific and cultural achievements with western governments and politics. It is acceptable, and perhaps even advisable, to admire thought and creativity no matter where the source of that knowledge is. Some of the most creative people in western society have been persecuted by their own government. The 99% movement in the west feels a great degree of animus toward the western establishment – and, they are not alone. None of these are indicative of animus toward a culture of thought and compassion.

    In my view, one should not be a devotee of any group-think – west, east, south or north. In of its stead, one should value profound thinking and compassionate action.

    A steadfast principle of scientific endeavor is falsifiability – yet, one should take great care before rejecting a thesis – with careful analysis – in order to preserve the integrity and value of statements. It appears to me that your rejection of Tainter’s thesis is careless and emotional. It is much more credible to reserve judgement about things one has not delved into.

    Finally, let me distill to a simpler (and less rhetorical) form the question I posed earlier – which I did not get a response to.

    On what basis did you call the ideas of Tainter “half-baked” and “fringe”? In what way did you see his prediction about civilizations a pine for demise of the west?

  419. Nasser says:


    I have been thinking something, Ukraine was unwilling to sell some aviation and propulsion technology that Iran was interested in. Do you think it might be possible for Iran to buy those things now, provided Iran even has the strategic wisdom to pay enough for those items? Ukrainians do need the money but are they too far gone for that to be possible?

  420. M.Ali says:

    Amir, thanks for your comment.

    “But, I didb’t understand what you meant. Could you please tell me your own opinion?”

    Didn’t have an opinion yet that’s why I asked. I’m a bit like you. I don’t like to think everything in Iranian politics is just for show and Agha and Obama are talking every day but no one is telling us because we are the stupid public so I wanted to know what were the implications of this majlis decision.

  421. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    What does the Iranian law say?

    How does the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran define the rights and obligations of the President vs. the Supreme Jurisprudent?

    What are the secondary laws, based on the articles of that constitution which further elaborate the procedures to be followed in the interactions between the President and the Office of Supreme Jurisprudent?

    Do you know?

    Per chance, the actions of Mr. Ahmadinejad could have been legal while Mr. Khamenei could have exceeded the bounds of his office in this case?

    Second question: What state body is there within the Iranian constitutional system that could arbitrate in cases of disagreements between the President and the Supreme Jurisprudent?

    Or are there no such laws and regulations and we are in the ambiguous parts or undefined aspects of the Iranian Constitutional Law – to be clarified in the coming years?

    Do you know?

    Do you know?

  422. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 21, 2015 at 1:48 pm

    You are quite right and Italy is very different – there is the fact also that in 1983, when US and France were taking sides in the Lebanese Civil War with Maronite Christians against everyone else under the guise of UN mandate, the Italians actually stuck very closely to the UN Mandate and were not attacked.

    Italy has understanding of Islam and Muslims but she is powerless in EU – France, Germany and UK set the EU policy and all others are either too weak, or too ignorant or too greedy to object.

    I did not mention Italy for brevity.

  423. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 21, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    I cannot answer your question.

    Also, I heard that their aviation and generally industrial base is in the Eastern part of Ukraine – likely now under Russian Control.

    But let us look at the fate of Iran-140 (An-140: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-140 )

    What has been done there?

    Where is the mass-production of that airplane?

    Buying technology is one thing, being able to adapt it is entirely different.

    I am heartened by the Bushehr power plant though in so far as Iranians are trained and are learning how to run such a complex piece of machinery is safe, reliable and reproducible manner.

    Since, in my view, organization is also technology and learning how to organize oneself in more efficient and productive ways is also a kin of “high technology”.

    This organizational knowledge can then be transferred to other industries and businesses.

  424. kooshy says:

    Great, then hope she can start a new revolution in any color available and left, and she can change the system, if so instead of Turkey you can go to Nice for summer vacation. But if that didn’t happen soon like it didn’t back in 09, come back here and try more leaking of HR’s ass , if you are 68 now by the time you get your revolution you still can go to Nice for Shafa Dar Behbodestan

  425. masoud says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    June 21, 2015 at 8:18 am

    I assumed it was the Iranians that hacked the Saudi’s and released the cables under the ‘yemeni’ banner.

  426. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    June 21, 2015 at 2:13 pm
    pragmatic says:

    June 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Looks like the Tros Zios that for most part were contained to demonizing Iran discussion among themselves found the idiot sucker to find, same thing happened with the constitutional revolution, foreign interest (Uk) Was able to buy the want to be intellectual oligarch by showing them the door to the green garden (Like peace noble to Shireen) and divert the constitutional revolution.

  427. James Canning says:


    Are you arguing that Obama encouraged the creation of Isis?

  428. pragmatic says:

    Nasser jan – Ukraine won’t do anything unless the get the approval from Khadkhoda :)

  429. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    June 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    In regards to half-baked:

    There is a conceptual confusion at the level of the basic entity that is being studied or discussed: he uses the terms state, society, civilization, and culture interchangeably.

    I cannot agree to such a usage – take the word “society” – first used by the French Enlightenment Thinkers – how am I to distinguish that from a Polity? Or a Culture, or a Civilization.

    He talks of collapse of kingdoms and dynasties – that is not equivalent to the collapse of a civilization.

    In North Africa and in Al Andalusia, Arab dynasties came and Arab dynasties went but the underlying civilization of North African Islam continued on its way. In Anthropological terms, and he is an anthropologist, the Culture did not Collapse – the way the people lived.

    Like wise during all the cycles of change in dynastic China the Sinic Civilization did not collapse. There is very good – in my opinion – discussion of the dynastic cycles of China in Dr. Peter Turchin’s book; “Historical Dynamics”. Yes, the dunasties collapsed but not the civilization.

    Next he discusses complexity without ever coming out and saying what – in quantitative terms – constitutes a measure of complexity. In what manner was the Classical Civilization of Greece and Rome more complex that that of the Etruscans? Or simpler than the Medieval Civilization of Western Europe? How do you measure complexity in way to answer such questions?

    Next, he posits the Evolution of Complexity without stating or postulating any laws in regards to its change. This is all very speculative – it is outline of a research program and not that research carried out in its detail. Complexity means something very definite – please look at The Nonlinear World by Dr. Oono to get a glimpse of what is involved is a serious and precise effort in this arena.

    As for being fringe:

    Dr. Marvin Harris in his anthropological theory of “Theory of Cultural Materialism” posits per capita energy consumption as the measure of a societies’ advanced status. That book is not among references of Dr. Tainter’s book. Nor are works of Dr. Turchin and the late Lev Gumilev.

    Dr. Tainter claims that a civilization is too vague a concept – dismissing the views of the late Dr. Toynbee and the late Dr. Spengler (which are closer to my own views) – and substitutes for it a pseudo-scientific concept of “Complex Society”. This is just an intellectual sleigh of hand, in my judgment.

    In theoretical physics, one can point out to catastrophes/collapse when a quantitative measure of a physical system rapidly changes its value in discontinuous manner – say magnetization of a paramagnetic substance. There is a quantitative theory for that – and I am afraid Dr. Tainter is not even giving us good analogies …just something vaguely suggestive.

  430. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 21, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    “Italy has understanding of Islam and Muslims but she is powerless in EU – France, Germany and UK set the EU policy and all others are either too weak, or too ignorant or too greedy to object.”

    – Yes my Italian friend explained to me that being so close to the Holy See has made them extremely self confident in their identity. He pointed out that Rome hosts the biggest mosque in Europe. A couple of Italians told me that they have always been around head covered women and can’t see why other Europeans make such a fuss about Hijab.

    I was deeply ashamed at my lack of knowledge or prior curiosity about that country and society and recalled that you called it the greatest civilization in Europe.

    My question is why don’t they have more influence (not necessarily foreign policy) in EU and why did they agree to the monetary union in the first place? Italy is no Spain, they have a lot of industrial capacity, in nominal terms their GDP is still bigger than Russia’s.

  431. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    June 21, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    No, France and Turkey and Persian Gulf Arabs did that.

  432. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 21, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    You have to ask them.

    My own observation is that they seem to be disunited, in a way they remind me of Iranians – someday, God Willing, we will be like them again.

    Divided between God, Atheism, Liberty, Justice, Order, Corruption, Honesty, Idealism, Pragmatism, etc.

    Japan is the other most-civilized-country in the world.

  433. pragmatic says:

    Khoshy: I am not following your posts…
    If I’m not mistaking you were the one who compared Mrs. Marashi to the fat lady…or it was deeb anyhow…. It was just a notification for you. Other than that I am not sure what you are implying by saying Nice, Bad, Turkey and come back to me….

    Anyway, you and your kind are doomed to get silenced in next 6 months.

  434. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 21, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    “Since, in my view, organization is also technology and learning how to organize oneself in more efficient and productive ways is also a kin of “high technology”.

    This organizational knowledge can then be transferred to other industries and businesses.”

    – Thank you. I agree entirely.

    One would have thought Iran’s missile and space program would have taught her this lesson. Alas no.

    And regarding the plane, it is just like their auto industry, assembling from CKD kit is very different from actually building the thing, especially the powerplant.

  435. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 21, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    I forgot to mention that there were many Iranian students in Italian universities; they cannot stay in Italy after graduation but Italy is open to foreigners to come and learn from her.

  436. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 21, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Evidently, the military industries are being run more efficiently and pragmatically – they cannot afford stupidity and inefficiency.

    Ten months after the air disaster of the last flying IR-140 and still the government is refusing to disclose the cause. No doubt protecting someone.

  437. pragmatic says:

    fyi says:
    June 21, 2015 at 2:13 pm

    What does the law say about what?
    The president obey the Leader.
    There is no state body, the first and last word is said by the Leader.

    If there is a fight between the Parliament and Shorayeh Negahban then Thashkis Maslahat is the abriterater.

  438. fyi says:

    pragmatic says:

    June 21, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    Then the constitutional system in Iran has ambiguities that must be remedied; in my opinion.

  439. fyi says:

    Mr. Nasser:

    I meant, by my wish to be more like Italy, for Iran to someday achieve the Italians’ level of culture, scholarship, scientific output, industry and so on – and not their divisions.

  440. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 21, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    I understood as much. Thank you again.

  441. kooshy says:

    “Anyway, you and your kind are doomed to get silenced in next 6 months.”

    That’s great way for moving democracy forward, who’s idea is that yours or laughing nuts camp? Are we going to hear the fat lady signing for the coming silencing exercise?
    Sounds like you are 68 but never left the high school in Najafabad. BS is not smart posting as the zios.

  442. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 21, 2015 at 10:29 am

    Thanks for the link.

  443. Smith says:

    The recruitment agency of Isis working in over drive mode: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3132915/UK-terror-police-radicalised-groomed-runaway-wives-Shock-claim-husbands-women-fled-Syria-children.html

    Their soldiers need comfort women (children) due to battle stress.

  444. Smith says:

    Hojatol-Islam-Valmuslemin Professor Dr Rasool Jafarian


    یک دلیل مهم آن صرف از نظر از انگیزه های باطنی آنها در این که سیاست روز را به رستگاری دینی ربط می دهند، این است که بتوانند با استفاده از موج هایی که در چهارچوب این مفاهیم در مردم ایجاد می شود استفاده کنند. این جریانها سیاست جاری روز را چنان به امر «رستگاری»‌ ربط می دهند که گویی طرف مقابل مستقیم وارد جهنم شده و آنها بدون هیچ مانع و رادعی وارد بهشت می شوند.

    زمانی که این تصویر ایجاد می شود، و در آن دسته ای بهشتی و دسته ای جهنمی هستند، خشم و نفرت مذهبی و امر تولی و تبری بر فضا جاری شده و همه نگاه ها و تحلیل ها و برداشت ها و تفسیرها در این چهارچوب صورت می گیرد. عده ای موحد حقیقی و اهل ولایت هستند و عده ای منحرف و ابوجهل و اهل جهنم که راهی به رستگاری ندارند. از نظر اینها، هرچه امر مذهبی مورد تأیید است متعلق به آنهاست و طرف مقابل به دلیل این که جهنمی است، مظهر کفر و باطل است و اعمالش چنان بد است که اگر حتی کار خوب هم بکند، از کافر بالاتر، منافق است و لذا سزاوار توبیخ بیشتر.

    این افراد کم کم چنان به این وضع عادت می کنند که امر بر خودشان هم مشتبه شده، چنان از روی ایمان و باور، با مشت گره کرده و رگ گردن برجسته، سخن می گویند که گویی شک و شبهه ای در منحرف بودن دیگران وجود ندارد. همین فکر و احساس را به هوادارن هم منتقل کرده و آنها را آماده موضع گیری آن هم در شکل خشن آن می کنند.

    البته که اینها غالبا توهم است، چرا که همین ها روزگاری همین افراد را چنان احترام می کردند و پای منبر و نماز جمعه شان فریاد می کشیدند که گویی حق صرفا همان جا حضور داشت. اما الان تردید خود را به دوران قبل از تولد آنها هم سرایت داده آنها را از اساس و در خلقت، موجودات نااهلی می دانند که در عالم ذر هم شهادت به توحید نداده اند. به عکس افرادی را اصلا قبول نداشتند وحالا حاضرند سر خود را برای آنها بدهند. خوب ما نباید توجهی به این جوش و خروش ها داشته باشیم، مخصوصا این زمان که داعش ها حاضرند صد تا صدتا عملیات انتحاری برای مقاصد و روش نادرست خود داشته باشند. معیار عقل و درایت و روش های درست دینی در سنجش اشخاص و رفتارهای آنهاست.

  445. Smith says:

    Anyone from Iran’s extensive network of Hozeh and universities capable of taking up the challenge to answer the questions raised here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcePIi9XWIc


    Or the goal of existence is only ekhtelas, maal yatim khordan and Daeshi amal kardan?

    Any discovery, invention or innovation lately?


    Why is that 1.5 billion Muslims discover and invent in 150 years less than what 15 million Jews do in 15 days?


    Or no, the essence of existence is only tazahor and verbose profanity?

    Aren’t you tired of being a hypocrite? Every aspect of your life depends on Western inventions and Western discoveries. EVERY ASPECT. You can not live half a minute without touching a product of Western thought. Aren’t you tired of your existence?

  446. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    It’s clear form your post that you haven’t read Tainter.

    Keep goh-maling and having your cock sucked by sycophants.

  447. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    You’re cutting and pasting again asshole.

    Why don’t you answer the question about what culture is, instead of unsuccessfully trying to shame us into becoming techno-oligarchs. It’s not working asshole.

    You don’t seem to understand that the use of western technology doesn’t necessarily mean becoming a western cargo cultist like your sorry ass.

    You see, you are like this precisely because you are an Iranian efraati of the worse kind, not the long lost Yusuf of western civilization doomed to deal with lower life forms from the east.

    You have so narrowly defined your own existence, that you end up asking really stupid, idiotic, dumb felan sher questions about other people’s existence. Not very “genius-like” is it asshole?

    You are mentally ill. Seek some medical treatment.

  448. Kooshy says:

    With the release of wickileacks Saudi cables and the Saudi direct involvement in anti Iran actions, IMO Iran is well justified to destabilize the Al Saud’ regime and make every effort to separate the jazierat el Arab based on neutral partitioning fault lines.

  449. Kooshy says:


    Notice how US regime is releasing the Saudi diplomatic cables through wickileacks to not only undermine his client regime but his own DC regime, this what the oligarch sarsepordeh class in Iran likes to make believe.

    “Saudi Ambassador in DC” Plot Was A U.S.-Saudi Conspiracy”


  450. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    June 21, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    The topic of discussion is not my expertise – I consider myself a mere student of the subject. Nonetheless, let me share some observations about what you have said.

    In asserting confusion over the object of study – state, culture, polity, government, society, etc – you seem to be implying that the definition of said “objects” is a settled issue. Perhaps you can articulate what these objects mean – my encounter with a variety of definitions by experts in the field has lead me to believe that this is not a settled issue. You do not need to write this yourself – please point me to the settled definition.

    Complexity – even in the “hard” science of mathematics – is defined in many alternative and not necessarily equivalent ways. In anthropology and history, some conceptual definitions are better refined than others, but as a whole, axiomatically quantitative definitions are difficult to come by. Using absence of a “hard” quantitative definition could lay waste to the entire field of study. So, it seems to me, that your criticism on this basis is not entire genuine.

    Speaking as a student, I have read criticisms of Dr. Harris’ per capita energy consumption. Setting aside the absence of references to the Cook’s early work (and even before him), there are concerns about the lack of specificity – food/non-food, cheap source/expensive source, efficient/non-efficient use, … More specifically, it is difficult to identify how you have chosen to call Dr. Tainter “fringe” and “half-baked” when criticisms of the same nature can be leveled against other people you have named.

    In my view, these individual are scholars of a field – with differing views on the subject matter. I may agree with some views over others, but I tend to avoid calling people I disagree with “fringe”.

  451. Fiorangela says:

    Smith says:
    June 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    “Why is that 1.5 billion Muslims discover and invent in 150 years less than what 15 million Jews do in 15 days?”


    Iranians tend to be home-bodies. They have a “homeland” from which they were not expelled but rather their homeland was invaded. Iranians stayed in their homeland and endured invasion, resisted, overthrew, regrouped, were invaded again, repeat cycle.

    Jews, on the other hand, are and always have been a migratory people. Jews expelled from Rome migrated to Southern Italy where they learned-lived Graeco-Roman culture; Jews from North Africa combined with Muslims and migrated to Andalusia; expelled from Andalusia they traveled to Italy where they enrolled at University of Padua; they traveled to Florence and worked for the Medici; they travelled to Netherlands and took part in East India trade. Jews from Russia, travelled to Germany and Austria where they enrolled in European universities.

    While Iranians, loyal to their land, were committing their energy to repelling invaders and cleaning up the mess and reinventing their culture, Jews were taking advantage of some of the finest offerings of cultures all over the world.

    It may be that a “Jewish homeland in Israel” will sound the death knell of what you call Jewish creativity: some Jewish scholars concede that Jews are really not creative or innovative people but rather that they have a heightened capacity to exploit opportunities. In a speech at University of Chicago Hillel [ sidebar: how many Iranians have been to U of Chicago? How many Jews?] when he won Nobel Prize, Milton Friedman pointed to Jewish ability to exploit “niches” and opportunities as crucial to their success. This is a characteristic of immigrant populations: since immigrants do not have generations-long familiarity with the patterns of the culture where they are dwelling, they are compelled to respond to situations as they present themselves rather than work from long-established patterns or work out long-range plans.

    The price of deep roots in and profound loyalty to a homeland might be that a culture becomes stuck in its familiar patterns.

  452. pragmatic says:

    In new ME Saudi Kingdom has to be dismantled. As we see it’s happening by her best ally the US.
    Apparently our knowing it all here ridicule my thoughts, but donkeys could you tell all of us which government undermined the last king of iran? You two pathetic confused morons. Why don’t you two antars go play with your toys rather than commenting in here. BTW, koos reading your posts and the way you ridicule your foes here I dint see any democracy? Please don’t waste my time with your BS. I’m not interested.

    I’m going to visit your master today. Hazrateh ayatollah Hashemi rafsanjani (damat hekayat)

  453. Fiorangela says:

    Smith says:
    June 21, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    according to the Rand Corporation, average per capita income for Israeli Jews is about $44,000 per year – not much lower than for citizens of Great Britain, New Zealand or even Germany – and since this level of prosperity depends to an unusual extent on the active support and cooperation of other countries, it could indeed be argued that the material well-being of Israelis is more precarious than is normal for citizens of capitalist states. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/19/the-latest-and-maybe-the-last-existential-threat/

    Is the same true of any Muslim state, that it’s economic vitality, therefore its ability to be inventive and creative, is subsidized and protected by other countries to the same extent as pertains to Israel?

    Quite the contrary —
    In the good old days feminists used this metaphor to express that women worked harder than men for less recognition — “Ginger Roger did everything Fred Astaire did, backward and on high heels.”

    So it is with Iran/Muslims in comparison to Israel/Jews.

  454. Amir says:

    M.Ali says:
    June 21, 2015 at 2:05 pm

    I’m afraid Larijani has played the MPs; worse, the MPs talk about following agha, but in reality they are just paying lip service.

  455. Amir says:

    @those who read earlier comment about “protecting nuclear achievements” act

    I had said earlier that the bill was approved; in fact what was approved was the outlines of the bill; the actual bill would presumably be introduced into Majles tomorrow.

    There’s a chance that even this gesture of resistance (tit-for-tat ?) would be shelved by hey’at ra’iseh.

  456. M.Ali says:

    I agree. Unfortunately, not shaking things up is the easiest and most beneficial thing for a politician. If you fight against elites, all will happen is a ruined career. It’s the same in Iran as in every other democratic country.

    Look at what our older generation think. Pragmatic isn’t an exception, he is the rule. He believes in USA more than the Public of Iran. Decisions are already made, Iran has no choice but to agree, USA released wikileaks to damage Saudi, Agha is just playing us for fools as he is already on same wavelength as USA and finally, USA got rid of shah.

    Maybe your generation will get it right.

  457. pragmatic says:

    M.Ali says:
    June 22, 2015 at 5:30 am
    you wrote:
    “Look at what our older generation think. Pragmatic isn’t an exception, he is the rule. He believes in USA more than the Public of Iran. Decisions are already made, Iran has no choice but to agree, USA released wikileaks to damage Saudi, Agha is just playing us for fools as he is already on same wavelength as USA and finally, USA got rid of shah.”

    Dear M.Ali I do my utmost to reply back to your accusations verbatim. Before that, unfortunately people here either read between the lines or they assume awkwardly!

    You wrote “I believe in the US more than the public about Iran?!”
    I don’t, HOWEVER, there is a reality which you try to omit, and that is the fact that public of Iran are not politicians and their political views are minimal and if any it’s mostly on rumors! This goes back to the generations before us, whereat the rulers did not allow people to be a part of the government.

    You wrote “….Decisions are made”.
    In politics, they do not reveal all the essential and important facts to the public. They sign the treaties/deals and then they reveal them. Sometimes they don’t even reveal certain sensitive matters. Just an example, please pay attention: After the Lausanne conference both Obama and Karry said a different thing than Zarif. Do you remember the fuss our patriotic congressmen such as Rasaie, MP3 and Khoochizadeh made? On the paper, at that time we should have kissed them goodbye and should have not continued! One here said we have learnt to circumvent the sanctions! This time around, it’s not going to be that easy to go around them. Why you guys are against the separation of KSA? It’s the best for our beloved country Islamic Republic of Iran.

    As far as the leader is concerned, he knows better than you and I. He knows were to take narmesh gharemananeh and when to say no. But more than anything else his excellency wants a better future for Iran and the people of Iran. God Bless Him.

    If the US would have given Shah a sincere green light, Shah would have fought the revolution a bit harsher. Not that he could prevail, no, but he could have killed many of our countrymen. But when he saw the US and other western countries are not backing him up and he was told directly and indirectly to leave, YES the US had to do a lot with the overthrew of the Shah. You might be too young to remember, but go find out about the green belt around then Soviet Union. At the same time study the number of communist we had in Iran.

    Once again, in order to prevail Shia and IRI we need to be in a better relationship with the Western World. We can’t no longer play the cat and mouse or hide and seek with them. The region has changed. Do you agree? US/UK has achieved 50% of what they wanted to accomplish. Which were separating Libya, Syria and Iraq. They are on the verge of separating Yemen and then it’s in your surprise KSA. Don’t be perplexed! Therefore, it’s in our favor. Can’t you see this. The US and her partners have come back to realizing that a strong Iran aka police in the Persian Gulf, brings stability not only to the region but to the world. Also, it’s better for them Iran to be in their sight than Russians. This does not mean we’ll lose our independence! Then we should never have a mutual beneficial relationship with the US! Now the best thing to do is to sit back and watch to see what will happen. I don’t know the outcome like you.

    I could be totally or partially wrong. I, like many of you am predicting the future of ME. This is the way I see it. You can agree or disagree.

    I am travelling today, I have to say goodbye since my plane leaves in four hours. I’ll be out for a month. This time is real :))) I won’t have access to the internet. Thus, talk to you guys in a month. Have a wonderful summer and if I have said anything that has offended you, please forgive me, especially you bussed-in-basiji.

    Last but not least, BTW, I have asked this question many times, who is taking the oil in Basra so quietly?

    Long Live Iran.

  458. nico says:


    Interesting view about civilization collapse.

    As for complexity it is quite easy to empirically understand that à globalized supply-chain is several order of magnitude more complex than a local one.
    One is self sustainable. The other depends on global economic balance, energy comsumption and availability, geopolitical relations and security and so on.
    Case in point is the unbalanced and unsustainable relation between China and the US. Risky geopolitical relation. Unbalanced economic balance. Far away and interconnected supply-chain. Unsustainable ecologic trend…
    Forging à supply-chain be it food, industrial or raw material may take several years or a decade.

    Infinite growth and the modern paradigm of infinite progress is something of the past. We are in post modern time.
    The issue is that the western financial system of compounded interests is based on the long past paradigm and is going to crash.
    Such system is sustainable only with infinite growth.
    OECD did not experienced economic growth for decades and still plan their budget and economic horizon or planning on a putative future growth that is quite unlikely to come back ever again.
    But our gouvernements broke all rules of economic common sense and balance.
    No major overhaule action plan is devised.
    Only thing gouvernements are doing is to let the finance in free wheel.
    It is going to end badly.

  459. nico says:

    OECD gdp growth history 1962-2002.
    And politicians are speakers about growth that should come back soon and economic getting better by the day and more debt…
    What a joke. Whereas what they are truly doing is digging the hole…


    How do you pay back borrowed capital and compounded interests in such economic conditions while the cumulative debt is raising sharply and there is no economic growth anymore ?
    That is simple impossible.
    Pour Greeks… Victimized because the weakest while everyone else is only in the same position… Pathetic.

  460. Karl.. says:

    Doesnt the rest of the world use glorious western inventions too?
    Why this obsession with “muslims” “arabs” among some people here then?
    What does that have to do with anything?

    This debate is ridiculous and is getting old.

  461. Amir says:

    that’s the way many individuals from developing coutries try to inspire their fellow countrymen to shake things up; I’m sure there have been Arabs, Turks, Chinese, etc who have used exactly the same language.

    We Iranians have had about 100 years of such experiece. I agree with a lot of his positions, but I just object to hhis combining pre- and post- Islamic Revolutionary Iran.

    fyi on the other hand, has a very different story. Smith would be satified if we have jets and tanks and space program and nuclear weapon; he’s angry that Iran is negotiating, and he thinks it’s our fault so he calls us daeshi shia and stupid muslims; fyi on the other hand…

  462. Rehmat says:

    On Saturday, at a press conference in Baltimore, FBI director James Comey discounted the use of term ‘terrorism’ for the Charleston church shooting which killed nine worshipers including pastor Clementa Pinckney, a State Senator. Comely said FBI is investigating Dylann Roof for ‘hate crime’ and not for ‘act of terrorism’. Why? Because Roof is White and non-Muslim.

    Watch an investigative video below to prove that the shooting was a false flag operation to impose gun control that the Jewish Lobby has campaigned for decades.


  463. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    June 21, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    There 2 approached to complexity that I am aware of: the one in the Mathematical Theory of Computation and the one in the study of Dynamical Systems; which I think it the appropriate one when considering physical systems – such as machinery, weather, or human societies.

    Dr. Tainter states that he think of complexity as a continuous variable. That is fine but he never furnished a procedure for computing that quantity for human societies. In neither Mathematical Theory of Computation nor in Dynamical Systems Theory there is such a continuous variable characterizing the complexity of the algorithm or the system under study. In the case of the dynamical systems, the best that we have are various numbers – sometimes universal – that characterize the strange attractor of the system. But those numbers are not continuous variables, rather, the dynamical systems fall into universal classes of such behavior.

    I could not find – in skimming that book – any points of connection with what I knew. A recipe or procedure for the calculation of the complexity of a society – however difficult in practice to carry it out – would have furbished that missing link for me. I did not see and therefore I decided not to read that book.

    Again, if the idea is to discuss collapse of the classical Maya – what we know is that they were organized in city states and then the city states disintegrated; people just left to go live in the jungles. But the Mayan Culture – the Way People Live – was not replaced by another Culture until the Spaniards came and destroyed their culture and civilization.

    If one is discussing collapse because there was not enough resources, then there are much simpler models of Dr. Turchin that he describes in his works – Historical Dynamics. I do not need complexity to account for the departure from the scene of Ansazi culture – draught did that.

    I intuit that my biologic paradigms of civilization birth and decline is better suited to understanding of what has happened historically. The new Muslim civilization subsisting on the dead or dying Classical Civilization in Egypt and Levant and on the Sassanian Civilization in Iran. The dead or dying Sinic Civilization giving birth to a bastard civilization that is neither Eastern nor Western.

    They key here – for me – is that as you yourself have observed – the civilization, as a tool, is built to a purpose and that purpose comes from a set of ideas. In case of the civilization of Islam,, those ideas where in the Quran as well as in the practices of Arab Tribes etc.

    I contend that the civilization dies because their core ideas lose their potency and hold on the minds of men. And this is what Dr. Tainter dismisses in a few short sentences. I felt that he was throwing bay out with the bath water and that was yet another reason not to read the book any further.

    The issue for me in regards to his usage of words was what is he trying to account for? Yes, we all understand that the authority of the Roman Empire in the West collapsed – the state ceased to function, but did that mean that the Classical Civilization had also ceased to exist and had collapsed?

    When the Sassanid Empire collapsed, did that civilization collapse with it? I think not since the Islam-ization of Iran proceeded over 3 more centuries – at the least.

    There is conceptual confusion.

    I will not change my characterization from half-baked.

    I agree that I was rather harsh in saying he was fringe – he seems to be mostly confused.

  464. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    June 22, 2015 at 5:27 am

    Amir- I don’t think this new parliament resolution if passed will make any difference or was intended to do so, since from the very beginning back in 03 the final decision on the nuclear file was decided in SNSC and I think still is even though the negotiations for diplomatic reasons is transferred to FM. In my understanding once the decision is made there in SNSC for final approval it is presented to SL. Again IMO parliament is not the right place to have debates on state security matters, as has been experienced in the past, same is true for every country in the world including US. What we know the SNSC is formed by people trusted by SL since he is in charge of nation’s security matters and not the administration; if so one should believe he has more control over the state security decision than the administration does.

  465. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    June 22, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Perhaps the material is less rigorous than you would like it to be – you have called it half-baked. I am glad that you have dropped “fringe” as a description.

    I think you have to be a bit careful with some concepts in the book. You state Dr. Tainter’s view of complexity as a continuous measure and then add that that you are unaware of a continuous measure for this complexity. There are two things here – one is the process and its complexity which is being characterized as continuous – and the other is a measure of its complexity. Incidentally, there are rather exotic measure of complexity that have continuity.

    Your criticism of “no definition” is valid – yet, I note that this lack of rigor can be found across the board in many scholarly works of this particular field.

    You mention the Mayans and how their culture – “the way people live” – was not changed until … On the basis of your own measure of rigor, this statement is non-rigorous. I do not need to explain.

    I believe that civilization is built to a purpose, but I also can envision the driving energy that fuels the core ideas plays a major role in enabling one civilization – possibly with a “lesser” set of ideas – to surpass another.

    As I stated earlier, the fluidity of many terms in the field makes it difficult to carry rigorous – in the sense of mathematics – debate. That is, speaking for myself. I leave judgement for the level of rigor (relative to the field) to the experts in the field.

  466. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    June 22, 2015 at 11:54 am

    Could you please furnish a reference to a continuous variable measure of complexity?

    And is Dr. Tainer’s use of complexity corresponding to that measure?

    I again emphasize – when the state authority across the Persian Empire collapsed, the population of the Iranian plateau did not cease to live how they had lived before – praying at their Temples, drinking wine if they could afford it etc.

  467. Kooshy says:

    From “b” at MOA
    The British Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) includes a “Joint Threat Research and Intelligence Group” which “provides most of GCHQ’s cyber effects and online HUMINT capability. It currently lies at the leading edge of cyber influence practice and expertise.” In 2011 the JTRIG had 120 people on its staff.

    Here are some of its methods, used in support of British policies like for regime change in Syria and Zimbabwe:

    All of JTRIG’s operations are conducted using cyber technology. Staff described a range of methods/techniques that have been used to-date for conducting effects operations. These included:
    Uploading YouTube videos containing “persuasive” communications (to discredit, promote distrust, dissuade, deter, delay or disrupt)
    Setting up Facebook groups, forums, blogs and Twitter accounts that encourage and monitor discussion on a topic (to discredit, promote distrust, dissuade, deter, delay or disrupt)
    Establishing online aliases/personalities who support the communications or messages in YouTube videos, Facebook groups, forums, blogs etc
    Establishing online aliases/personalities who support other aliases
    Sending spoof e-mails and text messages from a fake person or mimicking a real person (to discredit, promote distrust, dissuade, deceive, deter, delay or disrupt)
    Providing spoof online resources such as magazines and books that provide inaccurate information (to disrupt, delay, deceive, discredit, promote distrust, dissuade, deter or denigrate/degrade)
    Providing online access to uncensored material (to disrupt)
    Sending instant messages to specific individuals giving them instructions for accessing uncensored websites
    Setting up spoof trade sites (or sellers) that may take a customer’s money and/or send customers degraded or spoof products (to deny, disrupt, degrade/denigrate, delay, deceive, discredit, dissuade or deter)
    Interrupting (i.e., filtering, deleting, creating or modifying) communications between real customers and traders (to deny, disrupt, delay, deceive, dissuade or deter)
    Taking over control of online websites (to deny, disrupt, discredit or delay)
    Denial of telephone and computer service (to deny, delay or disrupt)
    Hosting targets’ online communications/websites for collecting SIGINT (to disrupt, delay, deter or deny)
    Contacting host websites asking them to remove material (to deny, disrupt, delay, dissuade or deter)

  468. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    old man,

    A person spends years bullshitting and using false historical analogies to pontificate about literally EVERYTHING and then demands “rigor” from others.

    Like I said, you are dangerously detached from reality.

  469. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    It’s clear what old fart and douchi are.

    The question is why our hosts keep them at the cost of losing other valuable contributors.

  470. James Canning says:


    I of course agree with you that Obama did not arrange matters in order to bring Isis into existence. Kooshy’s claim to this effect is silly.

  471. kooshy says:

    Gav- James

    In GCHQ do your ever give brake to guys and websites or no is not allowed like Greenwald says? Looks like your government’ ideological and conceptual partners in Israeli propaganda organizations think if they do, it becomes an existential threat to their illegal occupying entity. Can one imagine how prosperous one can be in that illegal entity when they think their state’ longevity depends on spreading BS to people like us on internet? IMO, one wouldn’t and shouldn’t feel so secure if his first line of security and state longevity protection depends on keyboard soldiers like FYI, warmup acts and yourself? As for me I much feel better with Sardar Ghassemi than these losers.

  472. Rd. says:

    fyi says:

    “My own observation is that they seem to be disunited, in a way they remind me of Iranians –“

    Is this Iranian ‘disunited’ concept can be characterized in the same manner we see say in US among black v white, or the spanish, or heart bleeding liberals v conservatives? Or pro this v pro that, you are with us or against us mind set which is so prevalent?

  473. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    June 22, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    No – it is more of a conceptual orientation and what the ends and aims are – “What is the Good Life”, “What is the Good Policy?”.

    Mr. Berlusconi would go and promise to cut people’s taxes and they would vote for him.

    He would not tell him that he would also cut the government services.

    You walk into a shoe store and the employee is against the employer : “He is a capitalist exploiter…”

    This is worth watching or reading:


  474. Nasser says:

    Rd. says: June 22, 2015 at 3:33 pm

    The people of the Anglo Countries despite their differences, more on less agree on this ideology:


    Rest is mostly sideshow, but outside observers and new immigrants still pay too much attention to the circus.

  475. Rd. says:

    fyi says:

    “Mr. Berlusconi would go and promise to cut people’s taxes and they would vote for him.
    He would not tell him that he would also cut the government services.”

    akin to politicians in US who tout, vote for me and I’ll cut your taxes whilst cutting services as well helping the very rich to benefit even more. Yet, the public believes in the capitalism and the governance in general! So is this your description of the conceptual orientation?

    The above Vs, the generation of americans in the early 1900s (late 1800 to 1940s) who were apposed to the government of the ‘Robber Barons’ and did not trust the Robber Barons (Capitalist)? Infact dis-trusted capitalism in general. Is this sorta cynicism you are considering as the disunited or not believing in their ‘system’ or not working for the same purpose?

  476. Rd. says:

    Nasser says:

    “The people of the Anglo Countries despite their differences, more on less agree on this ideology:”

    akin to the concept of “learning to know, learning to do, learning to live together and learning to be” ??

  477. fyi says:

    Rd. says:

    June 22, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Yes, that is my sense of it.

    And I can tell you that Italy is a good country – 20 years ago it was even better before all the riff-raff from Eastern Europe started showing up there.

    I also think our problems in Iran are orders of magnitude worse than what it was in Italy – until even recently – with that Red Brigade and all that (Right Wing Italians blew up the Train station in Bologna because supposedly Bologna is a Left Wing city.)

    Look at us in Iran; we cannot even agree if private enterprise is morally good or morally bad or neutral.

    We want to live like Europeans but our hands are always stretched for government subsidies and hand-outs.

    We want to have goo relations with our neighbors but we despise all of them.

    We are against communism but for coupon-ism.

    We are for Reason but muzzle freedom of inquiry at any chance we get.

    We are supposed to have 7000 years of history and civilization but at the first sign of disagreement we are swearing at one another and at times, kill or maim one another.

    We are all obsessed with the honor of our women but we treat them like pre-pubescent children; but we are ready to murder them over some quaint notion of honor.

    The Persians think Turks are stupid and keep on talking about their old Iranian civilization all the while neglecting the essential irreplaceable and fundamental role that Azeri Turks and Turks in general played in the creation of the contemporary Iran (and Turkey and Azerbaijan Republic etc.)

    The Kurds live in that fantasy land that exists nowhere; having decided that sincere relationship with other Iranian peoples is not worth that fantasy.

    It is a miracle that Iran has been able to get as far as it has, in my view given all these mental and conceptual divisions.

  478. fyi says:

    Mr. Rd. and Mr. Nasser:

    A sense of Italy…


  479. Kooshy says:

    Since I don’t read FYI’ bs I ended up seeing Rd is rightly questioning him on this new line.

    Is this the new talking point coming out of Manosheh Amir’ ass, or actually is your idea and is coming your from your brain, since they both ( his ass and your brain) are on same extension. What for zios makes a nation united? 100% of a nation must be thinking and doing same thing for the zios to make you and your Zio financial backers think that Iran is united enough. Eight years of war against the world was not enough to make white Ashkenazi Israeli ass sniffers like you and Manosheh understand how United Iranians can be when is called for.

    For real FYI, the security Iran enjoys today in a real sea of instability” including existential threat to your supporters in illegal occupying, baby killing, war criminal land is because Iranians are very well United in kicking whomever threatens their unity. Count me in on that. I be here for an extended round of whack-a-mole if you guys care to start again.

  480. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    June 22, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    I will dig out the reference – it is based on the second quantization of Kolomogrov Complexity.

    Like many in his field, Dr. Tainter is not rigorous at the level of mathematical certainty – his definitions follow the heuristics of the field, so I cannot answer your question with certainty. I would guess: No!

    As to your last statement containing the claim – “… did not cease to live how they had lived before … ” – this is a matter of definition. One can define this to be true by design and bootstrap the conclusion! By your own measures, this is not at all convincing or rigorous.

  481. fyi says:

    fyi says:

    June 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    And there is a segment of population that wants to live just like ISIS – put its mind on auto-pilot; as has been customary for the last 800 years.

    And the other segment wants to destroy Islam and Religion.

    I do not know which is worse, the Islamic Disaster or the Lie of Pre-Islamic Iran?

    Tehran consumes 1/3 of the state budget and yet no inhabitant of Tehran is happy about anything – some wishing to overthrow the government basically because they are too lazy to work to improve things.

    It is not just one thing.

    Educated men that Iran needs arrive from abroad and immediately setup a cell to bring down the new government.

    At times it becomes quite frustrating…

    All the while claiming that all their problems are caused by external powers.

    An we have to wait for 35 years for the sensible decision to allow Afghans to attend Iranian schools is finally made – at the highest state authority – because non of the previous governments had the sense or the courage to do so.

    I do feel for Mr. Khamenei though, a visionary surrounded by midgets.

  482. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    June 22, 2015 at 7:25 pm
    fyi says:

    June 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    FYI, Zio white Ashkenazi second class ass sniffer, since your last post was addressed to yourself but it meant to be replied to my comment I will address it, firstly I am not at all worried to use offensive words cursing
    Slurring etc. since you and your crew the warm-up act cursed me a while back for exposing you, besides my birth country and your adopted shit hole are at war, in war cursing and using bad language is the least damaging, so save the old BS that all Muslim Iranians use bad language to your ass hole smith how wished god will vanish me, I thought the asshole will go away but I guess they couldn’t find anybody doing a better cut and paste job, at the end he is doing the same shit job as Sassan did.
    As far as your comment on unity goes none of the bulshits you pulled out of your disparate ass is not a major for a nation being united. What the F* did you write can you read your own shit?

    “And there is a segment of population that wants to live just like ISIS – put its mind on auto-pilot; as has been customary for the last 800 years.” There is a segment
    “Tehran consumes 1/3 of the state budget and yet no inhabitant of Tehran is happy about anything – some wishing to overthrow the government basically because they are too lazy to work to improve
    Well asshole Tehran is just 15% of Iran beside do you have a backup for your insertion that no inhabitant of Tehran is happy if don’t shout the F* up. Besides what that has to do with being united
    is in your f*ing adopted shit hole everybody happy and united, if so why the black kooshys being treated as second class citizen including Iranian Jews who are not white Ashkenazi.

    What is this is this also part of the united shit, you just uttered out of of not knowing what BS to say and now can’t defend so just pulling shit out of your brain left and right to see if no one will notice?
    “Educated men that Iran needs arrive from abroad and immediately setup a cell to bring down the new government.” Shame on you, you are not an Enssan = human being you are an animal. Not worth my time to reply too.

  483. kooshy says:

    Sounds like Fyi and crew are asking for raise, for cost of living increase or running out of BS and cut and paste? Anybody wants to help these poor bastards for the shit they have to go through every day, googling cutting and pasting for not enough “financial benefit.” as fyi admitted on this site?

    To PM Netanyahu: We demand that you vastly increase Israel’s hasbara budget.

    “PM Netanyahu recently appointed Gilad Erdan, Hasbara Minister with a budget of $25 million in the first year exclusively for coordinating international events to counter the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel.”

  484. Smith says:

    This is the video of Hillary Leverett in Intelligence Squared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np6EQKig9G4

    Wonderful argument on your part Hillary. Thank you for saying the truth upfront.

    But as is case, the situation is going to remain as it is. Since West whether the state establishment, the business structure or the general public regard the Muslim world as a gigantic reservoir of savages which need to be managed and taken advantaged of, even if by employing and propping up a savage kingdom.

    Thus it is the Muslim world itself that has to rise up to the challenge of managing itself for its own benefit. The colonial mindset is still pretty much alive and kicking in West. The field slaves are branded as savages and therefor the need for such a foreign policy employing house slaves of various varieties. To justify all this, the house slave raises a new Isis or a new Sisi here and there. Very convenient.

  485. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    June 22, 2015 at 11:30 am

    You may disagree but I think the Leader has more influence in Majles than in the SNSC; MPs are “lay person” who would do whatever they perceive best complies with the
    Leader’s instructions; the SNSC on the other hand is staffed with “elites” who have long made up their mind and would force the Leader’s hand the way they did at the end of War (you could argue they did a right thing to finish the War; I’m just saying that wasn’t what Emam had in mind, and he clearly expressed that “aghayan” had said the war was unsustainable).

    I’ll do whatever what the Leader would finally endorse but that includes the possible break-down of negotiations and I’m not frightened by threats of war with the US.

    Note: I’m not praying for a war with the West, but if that happens I’ll try to receive the news in a cool and measured manner. I do pray every now and then to die for Islam, but that requires a minimum of “liaghat”.

  486. Smith says:

    Fiorangela says:
    June 21, 2015 at 11:11 pm

    Thank you for trying to answer the question that I have been raising here.

    Your theory would be correct if it could be generalized.

    It is not only Iran that is not creative but the whole of Muslim world. Iran is just part of this whole.

    But regardless, Italians have also been creative certainly not less than Jews. They were never expelled. They were not subsidized. They were also attacked. They also have an old culture and a rich history.

    Italy has produced the likes of Leonardo da Vinci, Carlo Collodi, Michelangelo, Galileo Galilei, Alessandro Volta, Amedeo Avogadro, Luigi Galvani, Edoardo Amaldi, Lazzaro Spallanzani, Antonio Vallisneri and many and many others. Not to mention Thomas Aquinas to whom the modern way of life and all sciences and philosophies are indebted.

    In your view why a country like Italy can go on and become the birth place of all these people, from Vidus Vidius to Enzo Ferrari and from Fausto Veranzio to Ferruccio Lamborghini?

    Why a culture produces these and another despite having been “divinely” subsidized by oil money can not even take care of its own bare minimum needs, let alone creating for the whole world?

    Hint: The answer lies in beliefs and way of thinking in a culture. The answer lies in Muslims believing in Occasionalism by God, Government and Gheyr (others, certainly not oneself). The answer lies in living fossils of al-Ghazali whose clutches on Muslim brains do not let go.

    I appreciate your effort. But your answer is not right.

  487. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 22, 2015 at 7:25 pm

    Very tragic. Less than 15% of population consuming over 35% of state budget. And they get angry when the issue is raised.

    In the past 30 years, near to couple of trillion dollars in today’s money were earned only from export of natural resources of the country. And not even a few thousand could be spared for the most vulnerable people in the republic: http://www.khabaronline.ir/detail/428081/provinces/Gazvin

    And when you raise objection and point out that a Beveridge or a Bismarck social security system is needed to make sustainable social justice system, you are attacked by these 6th century zombies.

  488. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    June 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm

    “Look at us in Iran; we cannot even agree if private enterprise is morally good or morally bad or neutral.”

    Private enterprise is regarded as morally good in Iran IF and it is very important, IF this private enterprise functions in an unproductive sector. Anything to do with production, carries a death sentence and if rarely not that, then confiscation of all the wealth of the private entity. Examples are many. From Haji Barkhordar to Mahafarid.

    If a non-productive private entity engages in imports, smuggling, market speculation, dalali, sefteh bazi, economic rent or ponzi schemes and does not pay even any taxes and does the most heinous economic crimes against the nation, this private entity is guaranteed to be safe and sound.

    God save you if you even minutely take part in anything productive or creative. The punishment is going to be harsh and swift, with no mercy whatsoever.

    Do you remember God Quest? This was a ponzi scheme with a gigantic structure and a mammoth advertisement operation in Iran just a few years ago. Tens of billions of dollars were siphoned out of the country God knows by who. The government kept silent and only announced they were not “aware” of its existence once the scheme crashed under its own weight. To this day, no body knows who was running this scheme, where the money went and who were the perpetrators. Billions of dollars of public went into this scheme of most unproductive nature. It was a text book example of a ponzi scheme and the government let it operate till it run out of steam on its own: http://sahebnews.ir/79818/%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%88%D8%B3-%DA%A9%D9%88%D8%A6%D8%B3%D8%AA-%D9%86%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%87%DB%8C-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D8%AC%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A2%D9%85%D9%88%D8%B2%D8%B4%DB%8C-%DA%AF%D9%84%D8%AF%DA%A9.htm

    Afterwards they did a mast-mali and closed the thing. To this day we do not know who were these guys and where the money went. No public inquiry. No nothing. Just mast-mali.

  489. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    June 23, 2015 at 1:29 am

    “You may disagree but I think the Leader has more influence in Majles than in the SNSC; MPs are “lay person” who would do whatever they perceive best complies with the
    Leader’s instructions;”

    Amir Aziz- then if so, according to what you say (and yes I don’t agree with) SL has more influence on Majles than the SNSC (which the majority of members are selected by him) therefore according to your thinking the nuclear resolution that just got passed by 213 vote must be by influence and approval of SL, but at the same time you claimed the Majles is giving up her authority against the will of the SL. There is a proverb in US which says “you can’t have your cake and eat it too” actually I think the majles which rarely publicly will disagree with put a legal ring of red line around the agreement which made the negotiators firm stand on some red lines more structured they did this before. But I agree with you that there is no worries on possibility of war, and I am not that worried on continuation of sanctions either.

    I didn’t intend or mean to be rude or offensive

  490. kooshy says:

    pragmatic says:
    June 22, 2015 at 6:54 am

    “I am travelling today, I have to say goodbye since my plane leaves in four hours. I’ll be out for a month. This time is real”

    Petty Pest- What is this, 68 years old and you still haven’t left your High school in Najafbad already? While you are at it, why not put your whole god damn worth of calendar up on this site so we can all know when you will be taking up the laughing’ Nuts while he is still have the strength to lough.

  491. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    June 23, 2015 at 3:08 am

    No offense taken!
    Well, I said “would do whatever they perceive best complies with the Leader’s instructions”; I can’t yet understand the effects of this act, but have approved a bill that agrees sanctions can not be lifted for some time after the deal is finalized (it mentions sanctions should be removed after the deal is ‘implemented’ rather that ‘signed’).

    And all SNSC members are net hand-picked; the President and ministers of foreign affairs, interior and intelligence are examples of the exception.

    But I think there is no need to discuss this any more.

  492. Sineva says:

    Nasser says:
    June 21, 2015 at 2:01 pm
    Whats left of the ukraine is firmly in the us/nato camp which is why it stopped supplying iran with parts for the an140/ir140,tho that was probably a good thing considering how flawed that aircraft was,interestingly the saudis are once again copying iran this time trying to do what iran did with the ir40 even to the extent of partnering with antonov

  493. fyi says:

    Sineva says:

    June 23, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Not so firmly, Axis Powers are not willing to pay money to sustain it…

  494. Bussed-in Basiji says:


    The whole pdf document for your reading pleasure.


    Apparently they have a special “Iran Team” which includes “cultural linguist”.

    Quickly, tell Agha!

    Page 17:

    “Propaganda techniques include: Using stereotypes; substituting names/labels for neutral ones; censorship or systematic selection of information; repetition; assertions without arguments; presenting a message for and against a subject.”

    Page 28:

    “4.8 Measures of the operational success should be directly or indirectly related to the specific aims of the operation (e.g. to “discredit”, promote “distrust”, “dissuade”, “deceive”, “disrupt”, “delay”, “deny”, “denigrate/deny”, and “deter”).”

  495. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    June 23, 2015 at 1:01 am

    Iran cannot do anything about Sunni Arabs – and she should concentrate on addressing the security as well the actual material needs of what is left of Iraq and Syria – all the while trying to have productive relations with Turkey as well as Azerbaijan and Central Asian Republics.

    I think Turkey is of key importance; I hope by now here leaders must have understood that acting as the man-servant of the Kadkhoda only harms them.

    Nothing can be done by Iran for the rest of Muslim World for the present time.

  496. Rehmat says:

    Iranian mother of two Shahrzad Mir-Qolikhan, 37, tells her 5-year ordeal of cruelty, racism and physical abuse in United States jails in a book entitled, Shahrzad: A True Story, published in United States in March 2015.

    She was sentenced by a US federal court on trumped-up charges of allegedly trying to smuggle US-made defense articles to Iran. She won her innocence in 2012 and managed to return to her homeland. She is now a successful businesswoman involved in film industry.

    According to the ‘US Justice’ story, Shahrzad along with her then husband, Mahmoud Seif, were arrested in Austria in 2004 allegedly for trying to buy ‘night vision goggles’ from an American weapon trafficker (a CIA front) on behalf of Iranian military and revolutionary guards – declared as ‘terrorist organizations’ by the Zionist-controlled US State Department. Both served a short term in Austria before they’re deported to Iran.

    In September 2005, a US court indicted her in absentia. At that time Shahrzad ran Twin Group Television Productions in UAE. In 2005, Emirati officials shut-down her company and ordered her to leave the country within 24 hours. American embassy offered to remove her name from the ‘terrorist list’.

    In 2007, Shahrzad arrived in United States to test US justice in an effort to prove her innocence and that Iran is not involved in arms trafficking like the terrorist state of Israel. She was arrested and convicted of the crime she never committed in April 2008.

    Last year, she made a documentary for Iran’s Press TV, entitled, Memories of a Witness: Inside US Federal Prisons, based on her 5-year abusive treatment in the US jails.

    In December 2013, Israeli propaganda website, ‘WeaponMan‘ called Shahrzad “a weapon trafficker” and her husband Mahmoud Seif “Iranian military agent”. It also claimed that the couple was working for the world’s single most terrorism-sponsoring state.

    “She would still be in prison in United States if she had not been released as part of current administration’s policy of appeasing the terrorist-mullah state,” claimed the hateful Talmudic owner of the website.

    I wonder if the idiot knew that Shahrzad was released after serving her 5-year sentence in 2012. At that time, Ahmadinejad was the president of Iran, who is accused by Jewish Lobby for planning to wipe Israel off the map, and not the current ‘moderate’ president Rouhani.


  497. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 23, 2015 at 9:57 am

    You left out Pakistan which is also crucial. Iran needs to think beyond simple commercial interests when dealing with energy ties with both Turkey and Pakistan. Stratfor assesses that Turkey would be very amenable to an Iranian outreach for lessening dependence on Russian energy.

    Iran massively, absolutely massively, miscalculated on Sunni Arabs, even more so than she did on European dependence on US.

  498. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 23, 2015 at 10:51 am

    I left out Pakistan because I am no longer convinced that productive relations with country is feasible.

    In practical terms and during Iran’s hours of needs – the only country that has visibly been helping Iran has been Turkey.

    [Of course, they gained something from it, they were not doing that out of charity.

    But that demonstrated that there is at least some capacity of independent action in Turkish state.

    But none evidently exists in Pakistan.]

    Iranians are still thinking – per the post on Takfiris that I posted earlier – that Ikhwan can be cultivated – “we can open an account on Ikhwan”.

    That Iranian author is excusing the massive failures of Ikhwan in Syria, in Turkey, in Egypt and to what purpose?

    I agree with that author on one single subject:

    The Shia propagandists are needlessly attacking Sunni sensibilities; they did that in Egypt and in Malaysia with very negative consequences for Iran and the Shia.

    Malaysia was actually was a country that wanted to work with Iran.

    She was a friendly country but the Iranian Shia propagandist that were sent there to combat Baha’i doctrines – at the request of the Malaysian government – instead started attacking Sunni beliefs and creating strife.

    So they were expelled and the Shia was banned.

  499. Nasser says:

    Sineva says: June 23, 2015 at 7:44 am

    Thanks for taking the interest and for your link.

    I don’t share the view that either Russia or US has taken over all the crucial Ukrainian industries. Just the other day I was hearing President Putin explicitly mention that Ukraine was making good money selling engines to Russia that Russia must now produce domestically and Ukraine has no means of replenishing that income because after all what would Germany or France need those engines for.

    But we are just speculating here. I feel like Ukraine really needs the money, but they may still not be willing to sell such technology. We don’t know. I feel like Iran ought to pay top dollars for getting her hands on such technology (and on Ukrainian experts), but we are speculating that Iran would break with her past behavior and not act like a shortsighted overly clever cheapskate dalal not interested in real industrialization. Again, we don’t know. But, in my opinion, if Iran reaches a deal and gets that 100 billion plus of frozen money, then she should at least make the effort.

  500. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 23, 2015 at 11:03 am

    Third-world countries are all enamored of Technology.

    Americans went to India and told Indians that they were willing to sell them “Nuclear Technology” and the Indians folded their position in Iran and gave it to US immediately.

    That their energy needs could have been met through IPI more quickly and more efficiently became immaterial.

    That is the mistake of these countries – they need, instead, structures that help create technology and rewards creators and inventors.

    India manufactures many generic drugs – because under US Patent & Trademark Laws, the details of the ingredients of these drugs are disclosed in the section referred to as “Reduction to Practice”.

    Yet she herself does not produce any new drugs – even though the costs of getting them approved in US market would be very low for Indian firms. [Some US firms are performing their clinical trials in India and China.]

  501. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 23, 2015 at 11:03 am

    On Pakistan, Iran has never really tried being overly generous. When Iran couldn’t even sell half her oil on the market, Mr Smith suggested that she give some to Pakistan for free, thus forcing the hands of the Pakistani leadership while creating massive popularity with the Pakistani public. You then pointed out that the Iranian public would never allow for such a thing and of course you were right. Building half a gas pipeline is not an enticing enough offer. How can Iran hope to have any influence on Pakistan if she refuses to share some of her wealth with her?

    One thing is for certain though, unless Iran manages to industrialize she can’t hope to have much influence on her neighbors. Eventually not even on Iraqis. They will have to run to Koreans or Chinese or Japanese or Europeans or Americans or Russians to get what they want, be it manufactured goods or weapons systems and Iran will have no means of counter.

    I will stand by my assessment that Ikhwan is a greater threat to Shias than throat cutting Wahabis. Ikhwan knows how to work the West, those Takfiris are a dream opponent. And those Takfiris could pose a genuine threat to Jordan and Saudi Arabia, not the Ikhwan. Iranians who don’t get this are complete fools and would just get a lot of Syrian and Iraqi Shias killed.

    And I had no idea Iranian Shia missionaries were so untactful. I mean I know Iranian propagandists in general are clumsy but I usually chalked those incidents up to Moroccans and Malaysians catering to local prejudices and currying favor with the Saudis or Americans. Thanks for pointing that out.

  502. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 23, 2015 at 11:37 am

    “That is the mistake of these countries – they need, instead, structures that help create technology and rewards creators and inventors.”

    – Many thanks for saying this and for putting it so succinctly and clearly.

    I was under the impression that Iran could obtain a hodgepodge of this or that technology and put off real social and structural changes for later. But that was ass backwards of course. These technological outputs are a result of social and economic structures and not the other way around.

    I didn’t have the maturity or understanding before to appreciate this. I must credit you and Mr Smith for educating me on this matter.

  503. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 23, 2015 at 11:56 am

    Yes, you are right about Iran’s failure to cultivate Pakistan.

    In the cases of Syria, Lebanon, Gaza; Iranian leaders have done a poor job of explaining the strategic import of Iranian policy for the security of Iran and her prosperity.

    Only once in a while a mullah actually comes out and explains things the way they are and then he is then attacked by others.

    I do not know if you are correct about Ikhwan or not in regards to their danger to Iran – the only Iranian neighbor that I truly trust ay the state as well as personal level are the Armenians.

    I agree with you on the strategic necessity for industrialization. I can only hope that Iranian leaders as well as ordinary people have understood the impotence of Iran in face of the economic war of the Axis Powers against Iran and have drawn the necessary lessons.

    Just as they did in the military industries during and after the Iran-Iraq War.

  504. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    June 23, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    You are very kind.

    Thank you.

  505. Nasser says:

    Sineva says: June 23, 2015 at 7:44 am

    “…an140/ir140,tho that was probably a good thing considering how flawed that aircraft was…”

    – I feel that I must protest this line of thought. That aircraft was a good start and we all must start somewhere. And mind you NO ONE else, I repeat NO ONE else, was willing to work with Iran.

    This kind of third world snobbery would get us nowhere. We shouldn’t work with Russia or Ukraine because only the latest and greatest Airbuses and Boeings would do. We can’t work with Chinese electronics companies because we need the latest and greatest Apples and Samsung products. Why invest in microelectronics when only the latest Intel chips would do. We will be importing 3d chips soon so why are you suggesting we copy 1990s technology? Chinese auto makers are garbage because Iranians need the latest Porsches. I am not personally accusing you of holding all these prejudices so please don’t take offense but too many Iranians and indeed people of most third world countries share these stupid and incredibly snobbish sentiments.

    On this particular issue, I fear Iranian businessmen and maintenance workers are more to blame than Russian and Ukrainian aviation technology which though not as great as say Boeing and Airbus are still excellent and of a level even the Japanese and Chinese don’t have, and Iranians can only dream of.

  506. Nasser says:

    fyi says: June 23, 2015 at 12:12 pm

    No not at all. I truly am grateful.

  507. James Canning says:


    You claimed the US controlled Isis. I challenged your contention.

    You then claimed Obama had created Isis. Nonsense.

  508. fyi says:


    Ambassador Naas on US choices in the Middle East: