Why America Needs an Iran Deal—and Why Israel Will Inevitably Oppose One: Leverett CNN Op-Ed


In the wake of Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s speech to the U.S. Congress earlier this week, CNN has published Hillary’s Op Ed, “Why Iran’s Rise Is a Good Thing,” see here.  The piece opens,

“In September 2002, then-former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a U.S. congressional committee ‘there is absolutely no question whatsoever’ that Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was developing nuclear weapons at ‘portable manufacturing sites of mass death.’  Once Hussein had nuclear weapons, Netanyahu warned, ‘the terror network will have nuclear weapons,’ placing ‘the security of the entire world at risk.’

Fast forward to this week, and Netanyahu was back, this time as prime minister, to make virtually identical claims about Iran.  Yet not only has the U.S. intelligence community disagreed with Netanyahu’s assessment of Iranian nuclear intentions, so does Israel’s, according to leaked documents.  Indeed, more than 200 retired security officers have publicly criticized Netanyahu as a danger to Israel’s security.  Sadly, Netanyahu’s presentation reinforces caricatures regularly advanced by American and Gulf Arab pundits—caricatures of Iran as aspiring Middle Eastern hegemon, bent on overthrowing an otherwise stable regional order.  It’s a misguided perspective that is actually hurting the United States.

In Netanyahu’s view, America should only improve relations with an Iran that stops its regional ‘aggression,’ its support for ‘terrorism,’ and its ‘threat[s] to annihilate … Israel.’  In other words, America should not improve relations with an Iran whose regional influence is rising.

In reality, Iran’s rise is not only normal, it is actually essential to a more stable region.  As nuclear talks with Tehran enter a decisive phase, rapprochement with a genuinely independent Iran—not a nominally independent Iran whose strategic orientation is subordinated to U.S. preferences—is vital to halting the decline of America’s strategic position.

The piece goes on to explain why it is critically necessary for the United States to abandon its failed and profoundly self-damaging quest for Middle Eastern hegemony and to embrace instead “a regional balance of power—not the chimera of American dominance misleadingly labeled as ‘balance,’ but an actual balance in which major regional states, acting in their own interests, constrain one another.”  The piece also explains why, in this context, U.S. cooperation with the Islamic Republic of Iran is utterly indispensable—and how Israeli elites’ acute recognition that U.S. realignment with a rising Iran would inevitably constrain some of Israel’s preferred national security strategies impels Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders to extraordinary efforts to thwart U.S.-Iranian rapprochement.  To continue reading, click here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/opinion/leverett-iran-relations/

As always, we encourage readers to post comments, Facebook likes, etc., both on this site and on CNN’s Web site.

Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett


155 Responses to “Why America Needs an Iran Deal—and Why Israel Will Inevitably Oppose One: Leverett CNN Op-Ed”

  1. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 4, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    They are a defeated culture, who have nothing to offer the world. Therefore nothing else can be expected of them. While they squander trillions of dollars equivalent of wealth, whether in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Libya or Dubai or etc, other cultures are using their resources to peek deeper into fabric of existence: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31162725

    There is simply no comparison. How can we compare cargo-cultism with science!

    As for recent developments, it is becoming clear that either Iran will have to give up quite big chunks of its nuclear program for minuscule and inconsequential sanctions relief or Iran will have to live for a long time, under the most severe sanctions in human history along with real threat of an imposed (nuclear) war. As you had said often, Iran had to pull out of this colonial treaty in 1998. Instead, it was declared haram.

  2. MassoudH says:

    This is by far the best analysis on the impasse between Iran, USA and Israel in a long time. As the author so well states, US support for Israel was tied to USA’s national interests in the Cold War era, and only began in 1967. She could have also considered USA’s growing energy independence with increased domestic production of oil and gas in the article’s analysis.

    Today, Israel does more harm than good to its master’s national interests, exacting a heavy cost on US taxpayers. It is quite comical that the (loony bomb cartoonist) Israeli PM would bite the only hand that feeds it, but this is a reflection of his apocalyptic ‘vision’, and there is little that can be done about such madness.

  3. Jay says:

    BBC is an unworthy and untrustworthy rag.


    “The U.K. Government loves to lecture the world about infringements of liberty generally and press freedom specifically. It does so as it threatens to revoke the broadcasting license of a media outlet for broadcasting “anti-western” views and other perspectives at odds with the U.K. Government, all while shielding (and venerating) the equally virulent biases from pro-state television in the U.K. That is the classic hallmark of how a government propagandizes its citizens: ensuring that they hear only those views of which the government approves and which serve its interests and agenda.”


  4. Pirouz says:

    Well articulated piece at CNN.

    Following the speech two days ago, wish they’d had Hillary at PBS instead of Vali Nasr.

  5. Rehmat says:

    During his speech at the US Knesset, Netanyahu invoked Jewish Holy Book of Esther to demonize Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatullah Ali Khamenei.

    “Today the Jewish people face another attempt by yet another Persian potentate to destroy us. Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei spews the oldest hatred, the oldest hatred of anti-Semitism with the newest technology. He tweets that Israel must be annihilated,” Netanyahu said.

    Netanyahu was referring to Israel National News (January 28, 2010) report that Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatullah Khamenie told the visiting Mauritanian president Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz: “The region would soon witness the annihilation of the Zionist regime. The timetable for the destruction depends on the functioning of the Islamic countries and Muslim nations.”

    Israeli newspaper statement admits that Khamenei predicted the “annihilation” of “Zionist regime” – and not Jews or the state of Israel. But then, Zionist Jews are never known for a guilty conscience.


  6. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    No, Japan, Korea, and China are defeated cultures.

    Muslims are not; ISIS is am expression of the Will to Struggle.

    It is also an ample demonstration of the proposition that very many Muslims are incapable of sustained rational thought – emotionalism rules the roost.

    The fact of the matter is that the future of Muslim Civilization will be decided by 2 countries – Iran and Turkey.

    What these 2 states achieve, will be copied by others – that has been the pattern of Muslim past everywhere.

    LHC of course is a great scientific instrument but there is so much of low energy physics that is not being funded in US and EU – so much basic material science, field biology, rheology – you name it.

    There are many fields of scientific endeavor in which experimentation is relatively cheap and are wide open.

    For example, a scientific program can be initiated to construct a climate history of Iranian plateau. This of great local and global interest in the light of inevitable certain global warming as well as the persistent draught of the last 18 years.

    Is the draught new? Or is it a cyclical phenomena unrelated to global warming.

    One can start by taking core samples from Gav Khooni pond – looking at pollen as climate surrogates – for example.

  7. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 5, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    That is another way of saying it is a defeated culture already, since it has to change into something else in order to survive. Just semantics.

    I think we have not yet been able to understand the root cause(s) of this unthinking culture. Where it has come from? When? And why so many in so long a time have been in love with this culture in Muslim lands?

    In case of Turkey, all I can see is actually regression. I see their case no more different than Pakistan of 1980’s. To paraphrase yourself, a bricklayer/muleteer interpretation of Islam is being promoted there with concomitant rearing of extremists proxy groups. I guess that only leaves Iran.

    I referred to LHC only as an example. Of course you are right, there are so many different scientific areas which can be funded and harvested. Probably the cheapest among them (in terms of needed equipment), mathematics, sociology and economics. The question is not this. The question is whether in Iran or other Muslim lands, why we do not see this valor for exploration and further understanding of ourselves and our surroundings?

    Money does not seem to be an issue. Even this most expensive scientific instrument which I referred to (LHC), cost about 10 billion dollars. Equal to what a few, the likes of babak zanjani, karoubi and jazayeri hoarded and squandered.

    Just a few million dollars would be needed to do a pollen analysis of the past 10 thousand years equivalent sedimentation layers of Iranian plateau, resulting in a fairly accurate map of Iranian climate and its patterns over history. Every single day, many many and I repeat MANY millions of dollars are poured into Tehran’s besaz-befroshi and deep pockets of iPhone cover importers, alone. Why not spare a few million dollars for such projects? Is it not because, the current culture has already failed?

  8. Smith says:

    By the way, when I was pointing out the destructiveness of import mafia and smugglers, I was attacked viciously by bricklayers and muleteers of cargo-cult. Now their leader is saying the same thing on his official website nontheless: http://farsi.khamenei.ir/news-content?id=28999

    I had actually suggested some concrete measures to solve the problem (note that SL has not done the same).

    It would be interesting to see the reaction of bricklayers and muleteers of cargo-cult to SL. Because till now, it has been a deafening silence. Where are the big mouths now?

  9. Smith says:

    Another suggestion of mine here on this forum, which was attacked rabidly by dirty-mouthed muleteers is being implemented in United States of America: http://www.khabaronline.ir/detail/403162/ict/hardware

    Then they wonder why all inventors and innovators reside in West.

  10. Kathleen says:

    “inevitably” Seems like Netanyahu has been opposing the any deal since before the negotiations.

  11. Karl.. says:


    What should the “cargo cults” do? How should they change their nations?
    Also, did the Shah belong to the “cult”?

  12. masoud says:


    In the above piece by Eliot Abrams he actually manages to sound like Hillary Leverett, for about half the article.

    In the second half, he has a total meltdown. He threatens Arab military action against Iran in order to defend Israeli interests. I know that most of the Western doesn’t even try to pretend that Israel and Saudi Arabia aren’t in lock step anymore, but still, this shit is just getting weird.

  13. kooshy says:

    Don’t miss this other Zio Ahole

    ‘Shahs of Sunset’s’ Reza: ‘I’m Down For Bombing Iran’


  14. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 6, 2015 at 1:32 am

    Yes. Shah was also another manifestation of cargo cult.

    You can go and read my previous comments on this forum over the past several years for suggestions on the issue. But more importantly, a cargo cult society needs people like Mr. Fyi, to make any real progress. As is already evident. With guidance of such people, cargo cult is itself clueless.

  15. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 6, 2015 at 1:32 am

    Typo correction: … “WithOUT the guidance of such people, cargo cult is itself clueless.”

  16. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 5, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Mr. Khamenei is only one man and there is only so much he can do by himself; persuading and cajoling people who are incapable of envisioning anything better beyond consumerism.

    He envisions Iran someday becoming another France, the work of centuries, but there are not that many anywhere in Iran who share his vision less fewer still who understand what is required.

    The core samples have to be collected from multiple sites and then calibrated – in conjunction with complementary data from tree cores, magnetic field changes, etc. to fix the time scale.

    No, Japan was crushed – it was astonishing when you look at the published material from 1920s and how so many in Japan thought that they had become peers of US and European states.

    Probably very many Chinese think that way also.

    The fact is that the North American and Western European states still remain the major inheritors of the tiny tradition of Greek Rationalism – followed by Russia and Japan.

    Really, the economic wars against Iraq, Syria and Iran have been the best historical teachers of these people – they have been forced now to alter their ways.

  17. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 6, 2015 at 12:27 am

    A simple system can be built, using available Internet resources, for about US $ 500.

    The research interest is in the control of material properties – in the sense of the Continuum Mechanics – in different parts of the object being built.

    As I said, there are lot of areas for scientific/technical research – as we discussed – including the internal combustion engine or even external combustion engines.

  18. fyi says:

    Kathleen says:

    March 6, 2015 at 12:32 am

    Of course, Iran has been opposing the existence of the State of Israel, one could not expect otherwise from any Israeli PM.

    The difference between Mr. Netanyahu and others is that he references Torah stories, is oblivious to the debt that Jews have to Iran, and evidently does not grasp that a war with Iran will make the destruction of Israel a personal goal of Shia Muslims.

    He is mad as a hatter.

  19. fyi says:

    masoud says:

    March 6, 2015 at 4:01 am

    He is accurate but incomplete in that he omits the refusal both Clinton and Bush administrations to settle with Iran at a very much lower price at any time – 1997, 2002, 2005, 2007.

    Nor how the destruction of the Ba’ath state in Iraq by US and her allies led to increased Iranian power after 2003.

    Nor he mentions the economic war initiated by Mr. Obama against Iran that failed to destroy Iran.

    Nor that US & her allies started the war in Syria to harm Iran.

    His summary of the Iranian presence in Lebanon and Syria does not mention that US, EU, Israel brought that about.

    Arabs fighting Iran – that is laughable.

    Axis Powers and Persian Gulf Arabs need to get Pakistan to balance against Iran – if they can.

    Such a move, almost immediately, will result in Iran leaving NPT.

  20. Karl.. says:


    Ok but what is this 3rd way? Since 1 you reject Shah westernization and 2 Islamic Republic way of developing the nation, surely you must have any grande ideas on how for example the “cargo cult” Iran should be rebuilt as?

    Who are the Cargo cults? All states outside the west? Shah tried to mimic the west, it didnt work. What is it exactly you want the cargo cult’s to really achive? Is it when Iran is on the same level as “west” on all topics? If, isnt this the tpical debate about westernization of societies?

  21. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 6, 2015 at 11:34 am

    I am agreed. I guess economic flogging of Iran by Axis powers must continue, if any good thing if at all, is to come out. Hunger is a powerful force.

  22. Amir says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 6, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    Interesting! Today I was thinking to myself, Iranians have been trying to fill in the gap between themselves and the West for sometime; first (somewhat similar to what the Japanese pursued) they radically changed almost everything. For a brief period anything Western was simply better; somehow (!) this really didn’t produce any tangible results (what Mr Smith correctly calls cargo-cult). Then this peculiar thing happened: instead of thinking maybe developing an indigenous road-map would do, some (in this instance Mr Smith) became convinced that it is Iranians’ fault. Heck, they could even compile a very very long list of West’s achievements and the rest’s … well, failure. Not disputing their logic here!

    What I find very interesting, and somewhat touching, is that our (as human beings) problems and attitudes, desires and passions towards various ideas are shaped by first-hand experience, on a usually personal level. One of my classmates had a disdain for the head of interim government following the revolution, and his reason? Because his father had bought a car in East Germany, driven it to Turkish-Iranian border, but wasn’t denied entering it into the country. Someone earlier mentioned an expatriate had left Iran because his Pink Floyd cassette was confiscated. These things aren’t about philosophical discourse; that’s just the way we humans behave (we just don’t like something, then we think that doesn’t make any sense, then we become against it, and so forth).

    On the subject why some people are opposed so severely to the Islamic Republic, I have some thoughts. But that’s another story.

  23. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 6, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    As I said, go and read my comments and Mr. Fyi’s of the past several years.

    Unless the unthinking ways of life do not get erased, the cargo cult will persist, no matter be it under management of IRI or monarchy or Isis or Western democracy.

    In your opinion, why while trillions of dollars of wealth are getting squandered in Iran, young Iranian engineers with ingenious ideas have to leave Iran and settle in UK, granted loans by Her Majesty’s government and markets in order to develop their product? http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/lifeguard-drone-ready-mass-production-video

    Is the wealth of a nation only for ekhtelas and rent? Why no investment is being made in ingenuity and innovation?

  24. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 6, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    Take a look at this study funded by United States Federal Reserve to understand the economic problems and human nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

    Does Iranian Central Bank fund anything except ethtelas, rent, inflation, misery, besaz-befroshi, etc etc?

  25. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 6, 2015 at 12:39 pm

    I do not think any one knows the answer to your question.

    In India, there is an entire industrial sector that produces generic drugs.

    Indians wait until the international patents expire and then they start re-producing the drugs and sell them abroad.

    They have never ever produced a drug themselves.

    In the mean time, the third phase clinical trials are being sent to India (and to China) – they have cheap disposable people.

    [As well as wombs to rent in India for the benefit of the Axis Powers citizens who wish to experience the joys and tribulations of parenthood.)

    But you take the same Indians and you put them in US or UK or Canada and they start new companies, invent new things and generally contribute to the innovations of their host countries.

  26. Sammy says:

    Never miss Jim Willie



    The reaction of global USDollar rejection in response to Quantitative Easing, otherwise known as hyper monetary inflation, will go down in US history, even world history, as the greatest self-inflicted gunshot wound the head and chest in two thousand years.

    Yet the clowns residing at the high priest post, along with the minions of genuflecting obsequious squires, call it stimulus. They see bond support and stock lifts, but little else. Even corporations have chosen stock buybacks over business investment, following the Pied Piper at the USFed. The nation is rotting completely. The QE has stimulated global economic collapse with the USFed pulling the plug on the global monetary fiat toilet paper system known as the FOREX currencies. The USDollar will be relegated to the dustbin. It is rising and rising, soon to vanish due to active avoidance followed by universal rejection. The USTreasury Bond market will be reduced to a gigantic circle jerk with high priests cheering the festivities as high frequency algorithm trading has given way to the USFed playing the music and moving the chairs, even holding the hands of the players. Musical chairs is fast becoming Russian Roulette. The banker elite has shot the nation in the head, but few have noticed.

    A final End Game has begun. The current stage is the global rejection of the USDollar, the once respected revered and resilient currency which has in recent years fallen on its own Third World sword. QE is a Third World monetary policy, plainly stated. What remains is the loss of the most prestigious of the nation’s calling card, the USD as global reserve currency.

    By coercion, threats, and brute force, the USD remains accepted as pristine asset in the banking systems, but not for long. Its widespread usage in Indirect Exchange, the practice of dumping USTBonds in asset purchases, signals a much broader divestiture in the future whereby major nations of the world disgorge their bonds sitting in bank reserve systems. They are fast turning toxic. Their toxicity is being reinforced by the QE official monetary policy, the Final Solution for managing debts and war on a credit line. QE is a poison gas to capital itself. For a generation, economics courses taught that hyper monetary inflation is a scourge, a grand wrecking ball, but when the United States deploys it, somehow it is positive stimulus. Rubbish! Witness Pox Americana, with celebrated inflation, with labor outsourcing, with consumer driven economy, with permitted banker fraud, and with endless war…..

    The most glaring pointed failure has been the sanctions directed against Iran. From the start, almost no claims of nuclear weapons program stood the test of scrutiny or time. Following the Iraq War initiative, the lesson was learned easily. When Iran, like its Arab neighbor, began to trade in oil & gas for non-USD payment, it was painted as rogue nation. Next came the lies and fabrications to support the silly claims. For years, Teheran did not possess either the missile delivery technology or the sufficient refinery capacity for building any nuclear weapon. The entire story was discarded by the Jackass on its face, especially since the little puppeteer nation on the southeast corner of the Mediterranean Sea repeated the shrill cries so often in their controlled press networks. Iran reacted by fostering good relations with both Russia and China. The former supplied advanced Sunburn and Onyx missiles, while the latter completed massive energy project deals.

    The USGovt backed off. A strange detente is growing between Iran and the Saudis, even the other Gulf Emirates. They have refused to play the US-Izzy war game. Then came the quintessential loss, as Iran constructed the Oil for Gold payment method. Iran sold oil to India, which purchased gold from Turkey, which sent the gold to private banks in Iran, which then swapped the gold with their central bank for cash. The Gold Trade Payment system was born, the prototype to be imitated the world over. The clever Persians found a huge loophole in the USGovt sanctions, and drove a truck through it, loaded with gold bullion bought in Ankara with Delhi cash and bound for Teheran. The USGovt sanctions against Iran have been a colossal failure. The Washington clowns forgot that big Teheran banks communicate with their central bank, much like Wall Street does with the USFed. Sometimes the cousin of aggression is stupidity.


  27. Sammy says:

    And this article by John Pilger

    ‘Why the rise of fascism is again the issue’


    ….The recent 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz was a reminder of the great crime of fascism, whose Nazi iconography is embedded in our consciousness. Fascism is preserved as history, as flickering footage of goose-stepping blackshirts, their criminality terrible and clear. Yet in the same liberal societies, whose war-making elites urge us never to forget, the accelerating danger of a modern kind of fascism is suppressed; for it is their fascism.

    “To initiate a war of aggression…,” said the Nuremberg Tribunal judges in 1946, “is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

    Had the Nazis not invaded Europe, Auschwitz and the Holocaust would not have happened. Had the United States and its satellites not initiated their war of aggression in Iraq in 2003, almost a million people would be alive today; and Islamic State, or ISIS, would not have us in thrall to its savagery. They are the progeny of modern fascism, weaned by the bombs, bloodbaths and lies that are the surreal theatre known as news.

    Like the fascism of the 1930s and 1940s, big lies are delivered with the precision of a metronome: thanks to an omnipresent, repetitive media and its virulent censorship by omission. Take the catastrophe in Libya.

    In 2011, Nato launched 9,700 “strike sorties” against Libya, of which more than a third were aimed at civilian targets. Uranium warheads were used; the cities of Misurata and Sirte were carpet-bombed. The Red Cross identified mass graves, and Unicef reported that “most [of the children killed] were under the age of ten”.

    The public sodomising of the Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi with a “rebel” bayonet was greeted by the then US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, with the words: “We came, we saw, he died.” His murder, like the destruction of his country, was justified with a familiar big lie; he was planning “genocide” against his own people. “We knew… that if we waited one more day,” said President Obama, “Benghazi, a city the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.”

  28. fyi says:

    Sammy says:

    March 6, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    That there is an increased demand US dollars as a safe haven now that Euro has become shaky.

    Also fro currencies of UK, Denmark, Switzerland, and Sweden.

    The reports of demise of US dollar are premature.

  29. Sammy says:

    ‘The reports of demise of US dollar are premature.’

    Fyi, depends on the definition of ‘demise’, as the USD is de facto dead.


    “The Chinese have put out billboard ads announcing the renminbi as the new world currency”

    And believe me it goes very fast , ‘Dir o Zud dare…., max by Q4 2015

  30. fyi says:

    Sammy says:

    March 6, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    As long as there is foreign demand for US dollar as the safest currency around, it will not be replaced by Renimbi/Yuan.

    Anyway, a world dominated by China would be far worse than one dominated by US.

  31. Karl.. says:


    What academic subjects are making iranian students to go to the west? That is, what subjects are “ignored” in Iran? I think thats the first question that should be dealt with before any question could be responded to about why Iranian state dont fund/push certain subjects in the academic world.
    Its also a wider question, much to do with the globalization and flight of knowledge/people etc. Globalization maybe is the bigges issue here? I dont know.

    While I dont know much about iranian students studying in the west, I sense that is not necessary a “bad” thing for Iran itself, sure many may stay in the west but many go back, after all that is how knowledge is transmitted, after all Iran is one of the advancing nations in the academic world today, so it is indeed progressing from the “cargo cult” level.

  32. Sammy says:

    ‘Anyway, a world dominated by China would be far worse than one dominated by US.’


    Do they urinate on dead bodies of soldiers fighting against occupation 10 000 miles from their savage origin.

  33. Kooshy says:

    “Do they urinate on dead bodies of soldiers fighting against occupation 10 000 miles from their savage origin.”

    Who knows on what chines might do, but the reason he and his body like US so much is because he thinks US is the only chance his US protected adopted country has to continue urinate on poor Palestinian children.

  34. fyi says:

    Sammy says:

    March 6, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    You do not know them, I do.

  35. Karl.. says:

    Not sure this has been posted, not sure if its true at all:


  36. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    Yes, Layla was a woman.

    In your opinion, can a graduate walk into a bank in Iran and apply for a loan to develop an idea? It does not matter what the idea is, whether an engineering design, a marketing structure, a commercial art etc etc? In your opinion, why several hundred unique medicines were invented in United States, while only one in China and none in Iran?

  37. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 6, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    It is just another manifestation of raw jealousy. Qeroon is down in the gutter and they wish the same happens to dollar. Oblivious they are to the Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and how it works. Oblivious they are to foundations upon which dollar rests, namely the demand for American technologies, medicines and sciences.

    They forget that when Iran successfully smuggled in a single unit of General Electric CT-PET scanner, paying top dollars for it, non other than Dr Velayati inaugurated its operation in an Iranian hospital with much more fanfare and a bigger conference than GE engineers had arranged when they had designed and serial-manufactured the machine. Oblivious they are to the reality that dollar is a much sought after (if not the most), commodity in Iran itself (in fact that is why Iran is negotiating).

    Dollar is going strong. The conspiracy theories about fall of dollar have around for couple of centuries now. Start worrying about your qeroon.

  38. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    It is a civilizational problem in which initiative at all levels of the polity is lacking in comparison to the developed areas of North America and Western Europe.

    You go to Morocco and they are waiting for someone from France or Spain to come in and start a hotel or a business or anything big and bright.

  39. kooshy says:

    Here is one for our Zios Fyi and his warm up act Smith, Enjoy! They should play this before they start their daily “Financially benefited*” exercise of demonizing Iran

    Stand! Down! Iran


  40. Jay says:

    Sammy and Kooshy,

    The psychological need for simple solutions to complex problems is a driver for relegating freedoms to authoritative solutions.

    Not unlike many nations working to rid themselves of the yoke of colonial paradigm, Iranians face numerous problems – from psychological to practical. Bright young Iranians have paved the way for scientific progress in Iran with their dedication, realism and hard work.

    Yet, the critics with their simpleton solutions, longing for the authoritarian savior, remain convinced that belittling this progress and the children of Iran, the use of foul language to refer to these young men and women, ridiculing their beliefs, and denigrating this progress is a source of intellectual pride.

    They pledge allegiance to the roots of intellect in the west yet they do not understand that confluence of ideas and wether or not ideas stood the test of time is a linchpin of western progress. Generating and testing ideas indigenous to Iran – the process in motion in Iran. They continue their incantations of “just listen to me” as if the savior has once arrived again – ignorant of the fact that they are guilty of the same sin they are mocking others for!

  41. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 6, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    Yes. That is pretty much it. Only a dauntless culture, thirsty for exploration and new horizons can self-initiate. Children of Nigeria, Cambodia and Rwanda also make progress when allowed to take up residence in West. There is something that is missing in their original habitat.

    American children INVENTED Beta-Blockers. These molecules did not exist in the entire universe. They do not exist in nature. A group of receptors exist in the body specially in circulatory system and chiefly in heart cells, called Beta receptors. They have physiological functions which contribute to conditions of hypertension and heart failure. The American children INVENTED keys to block them and these are known as Beta-Blockers. Saving the lives of millions, as we speak. They saw the lock. They self-initiated. They designed the keys.

    In a cargo cult society, they see the lock. They run to kad-khoda for solution. And then, they act as if they have progressed.

  42. kooshy says:

    Jay says:
    March 6, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Jay Jaan
    If as we have read and exposed their real intentions previously, and if their concerns truly was for a true and genuine benefit of Iran, yes I agree with you, and on some with them. But this two Zios are doing their demonization for pure economic and perhaps their own political reasons, as FYI admitted so to me a few months back. For that they will not get a free ride here.

  43. Smith says:

    For Mr Fyi (on the issue of the mad king!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwsl2AO9T6E

  44. Smith says:


    I have a question. One thing that I have noted among muleteers of cargo cults whether of Iranian origin or others, is their disposition to judge others ‘real intentions’ and then punish them for it. As you can see the most recent manifestations is Isis and how they are destroying historical sites since their judgement of people’s true intentions regarding them is in opposition to their ideology. Or when they execute people because of their ‘true intentions’. Where this craziness comes from? What causes this Isis way of thinking? Do these muleteers who follow Isis ideology, realize their absurdities?

  45. Amir says:

    Jay says:
    March 6, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    If I may, I think “one” problem was Iranian universities, in general. Young Iranian university students, who finished their high school in the 90s, coinciding with the reforms of Khatami, were (1) more attracted to politics, hence less inclined to take their job (science??) seriously, and (2) what ensued really alienated many of them, which culminated in the aftermath of 2009 presidential election, and the mass emigration (although economic factors and sanctions played a more important role, but of all people, the knowledgeable are expected to resist longer).

    I suppose as the Islamic Republic is gradually gaining acceptance in Western circles, Iranians who had oriented themselves towards the West would try to contribute to their country of origin. It has started some time ago. Also, I think a new generation of Iranian students are more committed to the Islamic Republic. Overall, I think the 2009 Sedition was a valuable and useful event. As Mr Smith suggested, sanctions are a useful thing, too; they compel us to fend for ourselves.

  46. Karl.. says:


    In your opinion, can a graduate walk into a bank in Iran and apply for a loan to develop an idea? It does not matter what the idea is, whether an engineering design, a marketing structure, a commercial art etc etc? In your opinion, why several hundred unique medicines were invented in United States, while only one in China and none in Iran?

    You mean it gets rejected out of hand in Iran? If it is, one has to pose the question that I did at March 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm, namely why Iranian state does in fact do that to get to the core.
    Also if you pose west on one side and Iran on the other there are hardly approval of every idea a westerner comes up with at the bank, not sure you even can compare western banking/economic policies with those of Iran, but I dont know much about that to be honest.

  47. M. Ali says:

    “Amir says:
    March 6, 2015 at 10:41 pm”

    I agree with what you & others have said. Smith tries to simplify everything in really vile and unintellectual posts, but there are, surrounding our discussions, very interesting points to consider.

    Iran, like a lot of other non-western countries, have been overwhelmed by western influence. Some have tried to give in to it more easily, such as South Korea & Japan, the latter being the most pitiful. Japan has adapted everything not only western, but American. I read a book on Sushi, and apparently, US adaptation of sushi is more popular in Japan now than authentic sushi.

    A country like Iran has had many such flirtations. But it never truly moved over the other side, as it never has ever in it’s history. It has adapted certain traits from different cultures throughout the centuries but it has always remained true to its roots.

    In regards to constant questions of “Why isn’t Iran like USA? Why isn’t Iran like France? Why isn’t Iran like Germany? Why isn’t Iran like Japan?”, this should be a source of pride, not a source of shame. Iran could learn from other cultures, as it does, but it should not emulate any one country, because NOT ONE country has yet found the model to truly want to copy.

    Sure, Germany has the best industry in Europe, but that’s a nation that is responsible for the worst crimes against humanity in recent history. Sure, Japan has been good at making good cars and TVs, but they were responsible for killing MILLIONS of people a few decades ago in the most inhumane manners. Sure, USA has is the most advanced in science, but it’s crimes in the last 200 hundred years don’t even need to be repeated. Sure, France, sure, Britain, sure, sure, the whole of Europe, who has had almost a conflict per year for…ever, I think. Oh sure, they have been fairly quiet recently (if we ignore Georgia, Ukraine, Kosovo…) but maybe its because they’ve moved a bit of their aggression towards the middle east or maybe that’s why they have been moving slowly compared to the economic strides being taken by eastern countries or maybe it’s just being being penned up.

    So maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let Iranians find their own way. Maybe it’s perfectly okay if we’re not as organized & efficient as the Germans & the Japanese, maybe it’s okay if Iranians are a bit emotional, maybe ultimately, it’s not really about who has the biggest penis size.

  48. M. Ali says:

    An article by Ralph Nader, the kind of candidate who will never get anywhere in US politics,

    Netanyahu, the other Israelis and Bobby Burns

    Apart from inadvertently making the case for equal time by his Israeli pre-election opposition, the spectacle of Benjamin Netanyahu’s wild diatribe at the joint session of Congress amidst the feral cheers of his congressional yahoos will be remembered as a textbook case of propaganda unhinged from reality.

    Starting from his preposterous premise that Iran, a poor country of 77 million people with an economy nearly the size of Massachusetts’, is planning a caliphate to conquer the world, Mr. Netanyahu builds his case on belligerent words by Iranian leaders, who believe they are responding to Israeli belligerence backed by its ultra-modern, U.S. equipped military machine and its repeated threats of preemptive attacks against Tehran.

    Unwilling, unlike his Israeli opponents, to subject himself to questions before congressional committees, this three-time soliloquist at joint congressional sessions (1996, 2011 and 2015) was received with hoopla quite different from his reception in a much more critical Knesset. The Prime Minister’s 42 minute speech was punctuated by 23 standing ovations and sitting applauses that took up 10 minutes.

    The U.S. Israeli lobby has made Congress a rubber stamp for lopsided policies in the Middle East.

    Only about fifty Democrats boycotted his address.

    It is as if Israel doesn’t frighten Iran with its 200 nuclear weapons and its rejection of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty whose international inspections are required for all other signatory nations on Earth, including Iran.

    It is as if Israel has not threatened Iran with annihilation, sent spies to sabotage and slay Iranian scientists and worked with its Arab allies to undermine the Iranian regime;

    It is as if Iranians do not remember that the United State overthrew their popularly elected Prime Minister Mossadegh in 1953 to reinstate the Shah’s dictatorship for 26 years;

    It is as if the Iranians do not mourn the loss of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians killed by Saddam Hussein’s brutal invasion of their country from 1980 to 1988 with the military, intelligence and diplomatic support of the United States;

    It is as if Iranians are not frightened into thinking they’re next when George W. Bush named Iran as part of the “axis of evil” (along with Iraq and North Korea), and proceeded to destroy Iraq and surround Iran with U.S. armed forces that are still in place to this day;

    It is as if the Iranian people are not suffering from economic boycotts which, by impacting disproportionately civilian health and safety there, (See Public Citizen’s Health Letter) violate international law;

    It is as if Iran should accept a wide sphere of influence by the U.S. and not try to expand its sphere of influence for its own defense;

    It is as if Iran had not proposed a serious plan to George W. Bush over ten years ago to settle disputes and establish a nuclear-weapons free zone in the Middle East, which Mr. Bush completely ignored;

    It is as if Iran is not, in the words of former Obama adviser, Vali R. Nasr, carrying “most of the weight” in the “battles on the ground” against ISIS in Iraq, thereby saving the U.S. from committing again U.S. soldiers to avert a complete rout of those left behind after our deadly debacle in Iraq since 2003;

    It is as if Iran is not claiming it is building nuclear power plants for electricity (a foolishly dangerous move for its own people) and not building an atomic bomb, has not been in full compliance with the Geneva interim accord (November 2013) with the P5+1 countries, as these parties, led by the United States, strive to conclude a complete agreement this year;

    It is as if Israel has not illegally occupied, colonized and stolen Palestinian land and water over the decades (including regularly invading a blockaded Gaza, invading Lebanon five times and attacking other nearby countries pre-emptively) and caused hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties;

    It is as if Israel, while complaining about Iranian behavior, does not continue their Palestinian policies that violate several United Nations’ resolutions, while goading the U.S. toward war against Iran;

    It is as if the Arab League, with 22 member nations, has not offered repeatedly since 2002 a comprehensive peace treaty in return to Israel returning to its 1967 borders that was also rejected by Israel;

    It is as if Iran has forgotten the shooting down of a scheduled Iranian civilian Airbus by the U.S. Navy in 1988 with a loss of 290 innocent lives, including 66 children;

    It is as if Iran, a country that hasn’t invaded any country for over 250 years, should remain cool in the face of such attacks, threats, infiltrations, boycotts, U.S. Navy in the Persian Gulf, and not engage in any military alliances; and

    It is as if Iran’s authoritarian leaders are not preoccupied enough with pressures inside their country that are both internally and externally driven without also planning to conquer the world.

    The pop-up lawmakers in Congress on Tuesday have not shown any interest in their own government’s causal responsibility for Iranian animosities. The priority for many in Congress is marching to the drumbeat of whatever the U.S. Israeli lobby wants from the Pentagon, the State Department and the American taxpayers. (Some members of Congress have spoken up in the past, notably Republican Congressmen Ron Paul and Paul Findley and Senators Chuck Percy and James Abourezk.)

    Why does a large majority of Congress block the viewpoints and policies that could lead to peace as advocated by many former chiefs of Israel’s security, intelligence, military and political institutions? They have spoken up repeatedly in Israel but are never allowed to testify before congressional committees. This entrenched anti-Semitism on Capitol Hill against the “other Israeli” Jews needs to be challenged by peace and justice-loving Americans who want to avoid future blowbacks and war quagmires for our soldiers.

    A way to clarify jingoistic biases in foreign policy is to ask the questions: who was the initial aggressor? Who is the invader, the occupier, the ever hovering armed drone operator? Who has backed and armed dictators to repress their people who want no more such nation-building by the U.S.?

    For a century, is it we, with the British and French, who have been over there or is it they who have been over here? Brutish conditions breed brutish behavior in all directions.

    The poetic wisdom of the great Scottish poet Bobby Burns teaches the crucial empathy: “O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us.”

  49. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 7, 2015 at 2:37 am

    No, technically it does not get rejected out of hand because you can NOT even apply in the first place. Loans in Iran are for ekhtelas, besaz-befroshi and importing iPhone covers from China via Dubai (that if you have some powerful connections to powerful people). There is no loan for SME’s in manufacturing sector. There is no loan for start-ups, specially if they be of high-technology type. In Iran the trillions of dollars are wasted, billions of dollars are donated to United States, and then if a young engineering graduate goes to a bank and apply for a loan to finance a startup, the bank manager will be like: http://goo.gl/bc39Lf

    I am not comparing Iran with West. That would be laughable. I am just putting things in context for you. In West, loan application, JV requests, finance options all get rejected too. But many get through as well. Western economy runs on this formula. It runs not on oil rent, corruption, import mafia and cargo cult rituals but on technology start-ups, SME’s, and a transparent economic system, in which they do not grab a businessman and execute him in the dead of night without even informing his family, since someone powerful did not like the businessman. No, not all. Even an Iranian engineering graduate with a bright idea can go to UK and be sure, he will be given a fair chance to develop his idea, as I provided a link to you a few replies above.

    As to why Iranian state prefers it this way. Honestly, I do not know too and have been searching for the answer, even repeatedly asking this question on this forum. But I know this: alot of people in Iran who otherwise would have been the equivalent of white trash in United States, would not have been trillionaires in Iran.

  50. M. Ali says:

    Smith, wouldn’t it then be great if USA invades Iran and then changes the society & laws to meet the standards that you think is better?

  51. Smith says:


    I think the time is fast approaching for Iran to leave NPT. As you have repeatedly said, the only thing that can secure Iran against an invasion is possession of long range nuclear munitions. Not the good will of United State, negotiated in a five star Swiss hotel. But obviously, the muleteers of cargo cult, fascinated by Chinese iPhone covers and American iPhones, still think otherwise.

  52. Karl.. says:

    One has to keep in mind though that Iran is one of the fastest growing nations in the acadamic world ranking higher and higher in different studies, surely its not going backwards, also being under isolation and sanctions regime really put a break on things.

    A bit off topic but still interesting, is of course the obvious – that nations just look and act differently, because of their history.

    All those superpowers/mini-superpowers of today just didnt come alive just like that..

    “In this “artful, informative, and delightful” (William H. McNeill, New York Review of Books) book, Jared Diamond convincingly argues that geographical and environmental factors shaped the modern world. Societies that had had a head start in food production advanced beyond the hunter-gatherer stage, and then developed religion –as well as nasty germs and potent weapons of war –and adventured on sea and land to conquer and decimate preliterate cultures. A major advance in our understanding of human societies, Guns, Germs, and Steel chronicles the way that the modern world came to be and stunningly dismantles racially based theories of human history. ”


  53. Jay says:

    Amir says:
    March 6, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    In the course of Iran’s post-revolution history, Iranians have had to find ways, often at a high cost, to proceed without help on the path of progress. And, sanctions have been helpful towards enabling Iranians to recognize their indigenous capacities and capabilities.

    I do not dispute the facts on the ground. Iranians will continue to face many challenges from without and within. Some of these challenges are remnants of the colonial thinking that inoculated our older generations and its reverberations continues to be heard today.

    What I have a dispute with is the “white knight syndrome”. There are no magic bullets. Iranians can’t simply jump on the magic carpet and blast past decades of science and technologies in all fields of endeavor by simply “listening to someone” who claims to have all the answers. Iranians must be selective, tactical and strategic, make mistakes, and correct those mistakes in order to gradually build the infrastructure for a modern society.

    To simply denigrate the failings and focus on them to the exclusion of triumphs betrays a iniquitous and banal mode of thinking that runs counter to the claims of allegiance to some form of enlightened thinking. Rather, the nature of expressions is indicative of an authoritarian mind that bears exposing.

  54. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 7, 2015 at 10:19 am

    That’s the whole point. This academic power must be put into use for economic benefit of nation. One wouldn’t be sane to give such an advice to state of Niger for instance, since there is no such academic power to solve economic problems there. We can give this advice to Iran on the other hand and ask why it is not being implemented.

  55. Karl.. says:


    Since Iran is one of the growing nations in the academic world, hasnt the journey already begun for Iran?
    Where should Iran be today in the ranking? At the very top? Its not reasonable imo to demand that.

  56. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 7, 2015 at 10:19 am

    Mr. Khamenei thinks that Iran could someday be like France. Today, at this moment, Iran does not have the depth that France has – the intellectual, philosophical, scientific, mathematical, literary and technological depths of France are largely unsurpassed by any country in the world except perhaps Italy and UK.

    There have been other periods in Near Eastern history in which governments were forced to copy from the Western European models; the Muhammad Ali in Egypt, the late Sultan Abdul-Hamid in Turkey, and the Safavids.

    Often the copying where in applied and practical sciences and not in abstract and empirical sciences – when a certain level of competence was reached, the effort petered out. For example, they learnt how to cast canons and make muskets then they stopped – breech loaders were imported when invented abroad.

    I fear that the current efforts in Iran will peter out since the “Will to Explore” or the “Will to Learn” does not exist deeply and extensively in Iran (or in Turkey).

    In other Muslim states, it exist not at all.

    German government, as I write these lines, is concerned about the reduction in small-company start-ups in Germany and is trying to address it; something on which the future prosperity of Germany depends.

    There is no such efforts anywhere in Muslims world – that level of process maturity and thinking does not exist among their governments and ordinary people.

  57. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 7, 2015 at 10:46 am

    Iran can not be at top in this century. But it certainly can alleviate alot of current economic sufferings right now, by adapting simple changes. For instance by implementing a more open, transparent and fair economic environment.

  58. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 7, 2015 at 9:56 am

    The first Muslim, Imam Ali, was murdered by a two-bit renegade who claimed to be able to see into the heart of Ali; finding him not to be a Muslim at all and thus deserving death.

    When the news of his assassination while praying reached Aleppo, many of the same Jadid-al Islam Arabs said: “Ali was a Muslim? We did not know that.”

    This has been there from the beginning in Islam; this belief that one can arrogate to oneself the powers of God and to determine who is and is not a good or a true Muslim.

    That is why I have inveighed against this arrogance for unless one accepts that everyone is a Muslim – until God sorts people out on Judgment Day – no one is safe in a Muslim polity against the slander of not being a good or true Muslim.

    This ability to slander and character-assassinate or to otherwise murder people (depending on which Muslim country one lives) serves to hinder free inquiry and free expression.

    There is nothing equivalent to this in Japan, the only non-Western country that has been successful in assimilating so much of Western Civilization in a nativist manner that it has actually become a pale imitation of France or Italy.

    There never was this “You are not a good or true Japanese” that would lead to your death before, during, or after the Meiji Restoration period.

    In the particular case of IS, any all things and persons that are not with IS are not just non-Islamic but are anti-Islamic and must be destroyed. All their destructiveness is in pursuit of devotion to the notion of fighting “shirk.”

    These collection of simpletons are just wrong but they are also stupid.

    And full of Fear; Fear rules them and Fear controls them; they fear dumb statues, the Shia, the Yazidis, and any and all that is different. They want to live in tents – as the late Mr. Khomeini once replied to another stupid mullah: “The way you talk, we all should go live in tents.”

  59. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 7, 2015 at 10:27 am

    We are not speaking of “White Knight” etc.

    There are concrete steps that can be taken today.

    In 1979, all Iranian banks were taken over by the state. At that time, given the economic and political situation in Iran, it was a sensible decision.

    What has not made sense was to keep the banking system in the hands of the state, barring a few private banks that took too long to create and are too small to make a difference in encouraging private enterprise.

    The state can sell the banks to the private sector or can de-nationalize them by issuing shares – and I am talking about real privatization not the fake one of “Saham Edalat” in which people cannot sell their shares nor can someone with controlling amount of share take managerial control of the banks (or other so-called former state enterprises.)

    That simple step of either privatizing the majority of the state banks or encouraging the creation of new banks – together with their initial capitalization by the state as the majority-owner – would be help expand the private economy.

    If Iranians do not like West, they can follow Japan and study and emulate her economic success since 1860.

    The knowledge is there, the will is not – evidently.

  60. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 11:34 am

    Thanks for your thorough explanation.

  61. fyi says:


    In Persian: “On the Book of Esther”

    به امید آنکه روزی سیاستمداران و اهل مطبوعات و جوانان کشور ما همانقدر از جزئیات دین و فرهنگ اسرائیل بدانند که سیاستمداران آنجا به یمن مطالعات و دانشکده های ایران و اسلام (شیعه) شناسی از دین و اوضاع داخلی ایران می‌دانند


  62. M.Ali says:

    Fyi, your “solutions” are generally discussed in Iran. What other posters are saying is that solutions are not as simple as you and your buddy think to be. However, progress is a fluid thing. Iran today and Iran 10 years ago and Iran in the 90s and 80s and 70s and 50s and 20s have all been different.

    Its a fast moving country and what’s infiltrating is how you two think that only you two have the solutions and 80 million Iranians have their head up their asses.

    Open any Iranian newspaper or watch any show on IRIB and you will see the lively talks. Watch the debates every Friday on IRIB1 at 4:30 pm and there is always lively debates on a particular subject. Personally I watch Payesh at 11:30 pm on Sundays which is a discussion on business every week. Or multitute on other programs such as Cafe Soap that is on as I type this which is about cultural discussions, today is what can citizens do to help their city.

    In 10 years there will be more changes and in another 10 years even more changes, and all these steps are taken by people WHO ARE ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTING. To make so many baseless, pathetic judgments on others is tiresome and I wish you guys would really realize its not only not helpful but actually does a great disservice to others.

  63. Sammy says:

    ” the intellectual, philosophical, scientific, mathematical, literary and technological depths of France are largely unsurpassed by any country in the world except perhaps Italy and UK.”

    This must be a bad joke, on all a.m. accounts Japan is by far Nr. 1 , I thought you are well travelled.
    Take the SHINKANSEN,with not a single accident since 1964 and compare it with the French TVG or the German ICE, both crippling and old technologies.
    Since a few years thr A/Cs of the German ICE stop working when the temperature goes up above 35 C and those brain retards in Siemens can’t fix the problem.
    And also this new Japanese technology from another planet among thousand of others:


    And besides , lately when you are in downtown of Paris, London, Berlin and other big Western cities it smells of dirt, filth and jerk ( and urin) , you should travel more , Fyi and believe me I am a brilliant observer…..

  64. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 11:44 am

    Unfortunately, privatization in Iran means an entirely different thing than the rest of the world. Often meaning handing over a state owned entity to a “charity organization” owned by state. In the rare instances that privatization did occur, they either go and take it back from the guy or execute the guy who bought it.

    At any rate, the economic class system in Iran is quite rigid. There is the bazari class who are against all form of production, innovation and invention. They are the engine of cargo-cult whose lives and wealth depend on imports, dalali and smuggling. And these people are in power and have long reach in economic planning and politics of the country.

    The manufacturing class, on the other hand was all wiped out through nationalization in the early period of the revolution. People like Haji Barkhordar were either executed or made to flee the country. Even if they were extremely honest people with impeccable religious beliefs such as Haji Barkhordar himself, they were made to lick the dust in Iran.

    A whole generation of hands-on managers and CEO’s were lost, due to the stupidities of people who see themselves “capable of peeking into someone’s heart and judging their intentions”.

    Now, handing over these state owned enterprises to such people, or their buddies, or fako-famil or to calcified bazar would only ensure further destruction of these enterprises as these will be taken apart and their machineries sold for scrap iron and their land for besaz-befroshi.

    I think, Iran is not Germany. Iran is too corrupt by comparison. In Germany, upon unification there were 9000 state owned enterprises in East Germany. The German government sold all of these in the short span of couple of years often for the fraction of their true worth, reasoning keeping these state owned enterprises for better sale price in future is more damaging to economy than giving them for free right away.

    Iran is also not also Soviet Union that implemented and managed a relatively efficient industrial system without private sector for decades. Iran is too corrupt for that too.

    I think the only model that can be a kind of guide for Iran, in this aspect is the Chinese model. They have kept their state enterprises and are running it like private sector with the CEO’s and managers entitled a share in profits of the company and upon loss, they can expect the execution of their entire family on flimsy charges, in complete silence. Furthermore Chinese allowed a true private sector to form without khaleh-khaharcheh-bazi.

  65. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 11:44 am

    Oh, I forgot. Iran can not be Japan either. Iran is too corrupt for that too. Japanese are highly industrious people. Iran is a cargo-cult nation.

  66. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    That would need a nation thirsty for learning and exploration. On the other hand a nation that still has not been able to author a proper encyclopedia in its own language, can not be expected to want to know more. They would rather import the knowledge and its products from West when the need arises.

  67. Smith says:

    Look at this German company which rose up from a start-up 8 decades ago to become the world’s largest supplier of automotive gearboxes in the world (their gearbox designs are used by Iranian cars as well): http://www.getrag.com/en/home/index.html

  68. Smith says:

    So Japanese have fuel cells. Germans have ICE. Americans have Turbofans. What you have? Only mules? That’s a shame.

  69. Smith says:

    And this is what French ingenuity got (in addition to the French cars which Iranians have to lick the French bottom to get their designs): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEX8vADhncU

  70. Sammy says:

    For high speed trains my recommendation for Iran would be the technology of Hitachi and Kawasaki heavy industries , NEVER French, German, or Canadian or US.
    If we can not pay for it, then I would definetely go for Chinese technology, which they copied from Japan anyway.
    Regarding the mules, which one is on your mind, IranKhodro mules or Saipa?
    As mentioned, NEVER go with French or German technology, in case of Saipa, we were unfortunate and our manangers were corrupt , so we adopted the technology of a bankrupt Korean company (KIA) , which was then later taken over by Hyundai and grew to a formidable automobile producer, leaving us with the monstrosity called ‘pride’

  71. Sammy says:

    Smith says:
    March 7, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Smith as mentioned NEVER go with German companies, they are arrogant, expensive and lack proper innovation.
    As for gearboxes always choose : Aisin Seiki Co., Ltd or the global No.1 JATCO, both Japanese of course..

  72. kooshy says:

    “I wish you guys would really realize its not only not helpful but actually does a great disservice to others.”

    That is the point and entire reason and intention we have gone over tis many times before, no argument and reason will prevail since they are not after a reasonable debate, don’t engage this two Zio, Ashkenazi ass sniffer A holes these people don’t even respect their own eastern goings when it comes to white Ashkenazy , here in LA I have seen many of them no matter what you guys pull out do for this type and bunch you guys in Iran are “AGHABOFTADEH” and that is because you are born to have anti modernity ideological reasons not to progress, like their country’s best bodies in ME the Saudis.

  73. Karl.. says:

    The debate seems to be about a perceived shame by certain iranians on their ethnicity/tribe, that they in their view havent evolved like the west that create, create, create which cause some dispair.

    I sense that those iranians
    1. Arent living in Iran
    2. Are quite liberal politically and economically and secular
    3. Have no real connection to the iranian society in Iran today, they have become westernized and/or are lacking a clear ethnic identity.
    4. Generally have a bigger pro-academic bias than the general iranian on the street in Iran and the iranian government itself.
    5. Quite probably is well educated in a higher standard compared to those with the same academic/profession (as were is possible) inside Iran, and cannot really relate to the situation in Iran.

    I could of course be totally wrong, but thats my opinion.

    ‘look at us, look what we have created, we can compete with you white bright westerners!’.
    Seems to be the goal for some people here.

    As previously stated Iran is a growing nation academically, but the argument seems to be that they must change now, today, ‘we cant wait’, which easily generate the claim that Iran should de facto westernize, become liberal, but its nog logical that a convervative conutry would change its way just like that, stuff like this come slow.

    Theres another issue, since knowledge is transmitted from generations, from students, from nations etc, what is really unique knowledge today? When do you stop being an alledged “cargo cult” nation vs a unique one? How does one differ between the two.
    So for example the arithmetic had its start in what today is the middle east. If someone use aritmethic today outside the Middle east, are they then considered a “cargo cult”, its a ridiculous argument but I think it say alot about the debate here.

  74. Sammy says:

    This one for nico :


    ..So beyond this proposal, the BRICS have been stepping up their efforts toward de-dollarization. The BRICS New Development Bank, formally created in July 2014, is intended as an alternative to the IMF and World Bank. Theoretically it could issue a currency at some point in the future, a rival to the dollar which could have disastrous effects on the US economy. The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank was established in Beijing in October 2014 with 21 members, in order to invest in infrastructure in Asia without recourse to the World Bank or the Asian Development Bank which is controlled by US and Japanese interests. The BRICS have been increasing their trade with each other in their own currencies, rather than dollars. The yuan is being promoted as a regional currency for reserves and trade in Asia, and the Eurasian Economic Union (Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia and soon Kyrgyzstan) has plans for the creation of a common currency within 3-5 years, the altyn. Russia and China have signed massive energy deals and are cooperating militarily. They are also dumping US treasury bonds from their reserves, and buying massive amounts of gold. In November 2014, China announced a financial reform plan, including redeployment of its currency reserves: instead of recycling them into US Treasuries, they should go “to support the domestic economy and the development of an overseas market for Chinese high-end equipment and goods.” In February 2015, Russia announced the creation of its alternative to the SWIFT system, in response to Western threats to disconnect it from SWIFT and to revelations that the NSA monitors SWIFT transactions. All these steps are being taken for the countries of the global South and East to be able say definitively to the US: “the dollar is your currency, and it’s your problem.”

    But for the moment, the dollar is still their problem too. The Fed’s policies are again creating a nasty mess for the developing world. For six years the Fed has flooded the world with dollars, giving $4.5 trillion of free money to banks and investors via QE, and promising to keep interest rates low. Dollars have been flowing into emerging markets: corporations and governments in these countries have borrowed dollars at a low rate, and global speculators borrowing cheap dollars have staked them in developing countries where they return a much higher yield (for example in dollar carry trades). Incidentally, it’s astounding that so few of these new dollars have actually reached the US real economy, which is anemic, though they have certainly blown the US stock market into the stratosphere..

  75. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 11:44 am

    I have not seen a single concrete plan stated here. “This academic power must be put into use for economic benefit of nation” is not a plan, it is philosophy! So is the statement “The state can sell the banks to the private sector or can de-nationalize them by issuing shares”. A plan must deal with the details of implementing these difficult structural changes – significant social and political barriers are in place that must be first reshaped.

    While the state has attempted privatization, the state has also seen the significant logistical and interactional challenges in enacting such changes. Among these challenges — corruption. Transactional concerns has motivated the state to retool and rework various systems of “capital creation” – intellectual and financial.

    Statements of a philosophical nature, or those that proclaim to have a “solution” are demands for a “White Knight” solution — nothing less. They could also be a way to satisfy a sense of “I told you so”, but I tend to give people more credit and hope that they are not acting on basal instinct.

  76. Nico says:

    Sammy says:
    March 7, 2015 at 1:58 pm

    USD fate is short term concern.
    The truth is that is global system we are living is unsustainable.

    Should India and China use as much energy as European, energy production should be increased five folds. Seven folds in the case of the US model.

    It is not sustainable to eat food from 1000s miles away when replicated to the whole world population.

    Anyway not only oil is going to be depleted but minerals as well in the coming years or decade. Meaning those already born or young enough today will experience such time.


    The simple fact is that to achieve sustainable life on this planet, economic growth need to stop.

    The paradigm of endless growth in a globalized world is only a myth, a mirage and pure lie. It has been true for a very brief period of time as measured angainst History or even modern History. 20 years, 30 years or so.

    We are only at the beginning. the truth is that the elite has chosen inequality for the many and whealth and consumerism for the few

  77. Sammy says:



    ..It seems that at least some European leaders now understand that they get played by Washington and they are pushing back. A Eurasian economic sphere is in Europe’s interest. Will Obama accept their view and turn off the hawks or will he escalate and risk the alliance with Europe? A first sign looks positive. The U.S. called off, on short notice, a plan to train Ukrainian National Guard (i.e. Nazi) forces:

    [O]n Friday, a spokesman for US forces in Europe, confirmed the delay in a statement and said: “The US government would like to see the Minsk agreement fulfilled.”
    “The training mission is currently on hold but Army Europe is prepared to carry out the mission if and when our government decides to move forward,” the statement said.

    Some Europeans, like the writers in the piece above, still see Obama as a reluctant warrior pushed to war by the hawks in his own government and the Republicans in Congress. But the surge in Afghanistan, the destruction of Libya, the war on Syria and the trouble in Ukraine have all been run by the same propaganda scheme: Obama does not want war, gets pushed and then reluctantly agrees to it. It is a false view. The buck stops at his desk and Nuland as well as General Breedlove and other official hawks concerned about their precious bodily fluids are under Obama’s direct command. He can make them shut up or get them fired with a simple 30 second phone call. As he does not do so it is clear that he wants them to talk exactly as they do talk. Obama is the one driving the neocon lane.

    The Europeans should finally get this and distance themselves from that destructive path..

  78. kooshy says:


    Right now the conversation on current geopolitics of Iran / US / Israel and ME shouldn’t be about Iran, modernity, technologic development and bank loan, the conversation instead should be about Israel, Palestine Al Nosreh, Al Qaeda, US and current geopolitics of greater ME and its effect on future of the world. This is the conversation AIPAC and these guys don’t want to have, and they do everything they can to distract and derail, please don’t feed the trolls and be a tag to this game. If you are not a party to this distraction, let them enjoy their duo conversation praising each other for their foresight.

  79. fyi says:

    Sammy says:

    March 7, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    I mentioned several categories and you are looking very narrowly on a subset of a sub category.

    What I have stated stands – you are just ignorant of the intellectual history of last 800 years.

  80. Smith says:

    Sammy says:
    March 7, 2015 at 1:37 pm

    That is funny of you. What makes you think Japan will give you the technology? Or for that matter, Germans or French or Americans or Swedes or even Chinese?

    Malaysia had done what you are proposing for Iran. They had a strong and long term relationship with Japan in car manufacturing. Producing the Japanese cars in Malaysia under the name of Proton (you can call it Iran-Khoro or Saipa or any other mule name, you want). Proton was basically the designs which had become too old and Japan no longer needed them, so they used to sell them at very high price to Malaysia.

    Malaysians on the other hand being a good Muslim cargo-cult nation, thought that they were smart. Even smarter than Japanese. They deduced that if they could assemble Japanese cars for years on years, someday by MAGIC, they will produce their own designs and even better than Japanese. Decades past, but they could not produce anything better than a mule. So they went to Japan and begged Japanese to give them the latest technology instead of the old designs. Japanese outright refused, showing the Malays their tiny dodols.

    Very similar to the way Kia had purchased the design of the failed Ford Festiva of 1980’s and produced it under the name of Kia Pride, and then sold it to you in Iran. Very similar to the way Peugeot sold its old designs to you in Iran. And the cargo cult nation of Iran had tried to play the same game as well. Iran wanted to sell the Paykan (Hillman Hunter) design to Sudan after its production ended in Iran. Sudanese showed Irankhodro their large dodols and went about their business with Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc CKD’s.

    My objection to Malaysians or for that matter Iranians was not why they had this deal with Japan or France or why they begged for latest technology from Japan or France. But why they were thinking that even if they got the latest Mitsubishi or Bosch engine technology, they would become a major car producer? Since eventually that new engine technology is going to become an old technology.

    Here comes the truth, which you seem to be incapable of understanding. In order to have such industries, you must have at their core a robust R&D. Out of trillions of dollars which were wasted in Iran, how much was invested to build a proper R&D center (not the current impotent crap they have setup) for designing, prototyping and testing engines. How much money went into building an R&D center for testing safety of the cars (crash tests, fire tests, shit tests etc). How much money went into setting up a mechatronic R&D center? How much money into building a gearbox R&D center? How much … Or no, all the money was spent to buy old designs since fat commissions were involved. I guess we know the answer.

    This is the argument. Even if Iran had gone to Japan, still things would be the same. Unless you start using your own brain, nothing will change. Cargo-cult ideas like the ones you have written above do not work anymore. Specially in a fast changing, fast innovating and fast globalizing world. Soviet Union could get away by copying a Fiat design and kept producing it for almost 3 decades. That is not possible now. In the very near future, when driver-less cars will be taking over the world, the mules such as the ones you have are useless.

  81. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 7, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    There is no shame in learning and adapting.

    There is also no shame in acknowledging one’s history.

    There is shame only when one refuses to apply Reason to what ails him or her.

    Willful ignorance is very shameful indeed.

    Knowledge, in the sense of learning it, of course, is universal.

    The ability to generate new knowledge, new processes, new things – across multiple areas of human endeavor, quite clearly, is largely confined to the old Western European states and North Americans – to a large extent.

    The next are the Russians and the Japanese.

    The rest of the world – the other 6 billion people of this planet, subsist on the innovations of these states.

  82. Sammy says:

    Nico says:
    March 7, 2015 at 2:40 pm

    Yes Nico, very well said.
    As you might remember one of my ‘secret’ favorite analyst for economic affairs as well as world politics is Jim Willie and I follow his thoughts as I think he sees through various veils at the same time, however I sense a kind of desperation in his recent analyses. As a Statistician by education he simply runs out of answers to explain the current complex situation as you also mentioned in your comment.
    I am sure you read it yesterday in ZEROHEDGE, the most Elite Zionist on the face of the earth himself mentioned : ‘Lord Rothschild Warns Investors: “Geopolitical Situation Most Dangerous Since WWII”
    Whether usual deception or the truth, I guess we will soon find out.
    The 2015 cover of his flagship magazine ‘The Economist’ was very meaningful.

  83. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 7, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    There is no difficult structural changes here.

    There is already a “Privatization” organization in the Iranian Government.

    The machinery is there, the spirit of it is not there; control is not transferred to the share-holders and their representatives.

    Corruption is one issue, the other is the persistent adherence to some sort of quais-socialism that mistakes charity with pauperism.

  84. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 7, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Proton is an interesting case since the entire approach of Malaysians is what an American working at Proton explained to me: “They are not interested in learning how to build anything and to run it; they want the fruit to just drop into their mouths.”

    Outside of Iran and Turkey, Muslim polities have no hope of being anything than consumers of innovations of others – if they can afford it.

    In regards to the old designs, that is how it worked for Koreans, for decades they were building old Japanese cars in Korea.

    And you are quite right, Japanese refuse to update plants (not just car designs) if they build it for you.

  85. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 7, 2015 at 1:57 pm

    You are obviously incapable of understanding. Economy is the greatest challenge faced by Iran now. It has to be fixed NOW. Failure to fix it will only cause people to blame IRI, eventually. This is inevitable.

    I do not have any hope that you might understand what is going on, or what this economic war is, but this is the last try (if your tiny mind can take it):

    There is this story about a Chinese sage by the name of Confucius. It is said, a young prince who was about to become a king goes to Confucius and asks him for advice about governance. Confucius tells the young prince that his kingdom will be safe if he could do these three things. 1) Strive to be a beloved, popular and respected ruler by showing the people that you suffer with them in their sufferings and you take joy in their joy. 2) Strive to have a robust economy since hunger often destabilizes state rule and weakens a nation. 3) Build a large mighty army to protect your kingdom from within and without.

    The young prince is impressed. But before he leaves he asks Confucius what if situation became difficult and he had to give up one of these three. Which one must he give up? Confucius replied, give up the army. Since if the economy is working well, you will be able to build another army. Then the prince, asks what if the situation became even worse, and he had to give up another one too. Which one must he give up, the economy or his popularity? Confucius said, economy but then the king must suffer along with the people and the people must see and believe the king is suffering along with them.

    I am sure you have not understood it. As the cargo-cult nation of Iran will have a very difficult time to understand the statecraft behind this story. If they had an understanding of this, phenomena such as karoubi, zanjani, and all different shades of ekhtelas, scandals and outright open corruption would not have been going on.

  86. Karl.. says:


    Did my 1-5 list at March 7, 2015 at 1:57 pm hit a spot? I think it did and its all to be said in this final post.
    Sure majority here and in Iran may not understand you, but that says more about you than us.

  87. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    State has to just get out of the way so that people can form companies, at will with minimal to no formalities in 24 hours. There should be fat government grants for young (not the filthy old) engineering and science graduates to set up companies. There should be low interest loans backed directly by central bank of Iran for SME’s. The laws for hiring and firing employees must be simplified. The economy has to be geared towards production rather than dalali. If these people are too retard to know how to implement it themselves then bring in someone who can, instead of depending on the same calcified and corrupt decision makers that can not do anything beside making money for themselves and their buddies.

  88. M.Ali says:

    Smith, if we concede and state that we all are idiots, can you please leave us alone? Every time you come here, all the posts becomes a continuous angry rage at all things Iranians with no real substance. This site is ultimately a foreign policy blog. I’m sure there are many other avenues that are more suitable for your needs and interest.

    I mean, debates and discussions from both Iranians, in and out of Iran, and non-iranians, don’t work with you. Everything here seems to be wrong (plus 80 million Iranians plus other Muslims) except you.

    So let me say this. Fine, you are right. You are the hidden Imam. You are the answer to Iran’s problems if only we would listen. You are Galileo ignored by us moronic idiots. You are Plato and we are all stuck in the cave. You are the three eyed man in the land of the blind.


    Can you please leave us alone now?


  89. Smith says:

    Karl.. says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:24 pm

    No, dude. You are too much of a retard to be able to hit a spot. Go on with your conspiracy theories of “fall of dollar”, “depletion of minerals” and “energy starvation” which have absolutely no foundation in sciences.

    Now, you can join other retards on this forum who do not receive my wisdom any longer.

  90. M.Ali says:

    Karl, what’s your prediction on the nuclear deal?

  91. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Yes, I had read about proton and their difficulties with Japan. At the end of the day, this becomes whether a nation is truly productive or just a (economic) slave.

    PS. By the way muleteers have no respect for freedom of expression and freedom of thought. Where they fall short of putting rational counter-arguments and can not execute or ban someone, they start begging them to go away. Typical cargo-cult behavior.

  92. Sammy says:

    Smith says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Smith just to make sure we are talking about the same mule.
    Proton mule produced in Malaysia was actually a Mitsubishi Lancer, same mule engine like in the 1.3 carburetor or 1.5 liter mule injection engine Lancer.
    I thought may be this point should be clarified.

  93. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 7, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    The Koreans did that, they tried to emulate the American system of research funding in US to encourage R&D in universities.

    For 2 decades, however, the very same Korean professors who had been educated in America and presumably understood the American system, used those “research” funds – intended for equipment, support for graduate students, conference attendance etc., as their private funds and spent it on themselves.

    Eventually, Korean government grasped what was going on and they cracked down and altered the funding criteria and procedures but not before 2 decades had passed.

    By the way, Korea also has many institutes that are funded to do advanced research in this or that scientific field but they never went anywhere because people with Ph.D.s in Korea were status seekers and not really interested in the subject matter.

  94. Kooshy says:

    M.Ali says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:30 pm
    It’s all because of this current article ” the rise of Iran ” AIPAC, and its cronies wouldn’t want you to discuss that Iran’s rise with or without US is in US interest , they do it in tag to get you in and change the conversation you should have.

  95. Smith says:

    Sammy says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:38 pm

    Whatever. You obviously are not getting the point.

  96. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:43 pm

    Yes, but atleast they are learning. Kia and Hyundai are doing quite good actually in exports. They have become competitive even in Western markets.

  97. Karl.. says:

    M Ali

    In short, its hard since we do not know what a deal might look like.
    For example how will the sanctions be lifted? Will the republicans even accept lifting them? Also what happens after the deal? How will Iran and US approach each other? Status quo? Will the deal actually change anything in the longer perspective? I dont know.

    What are your views?

  98. M.Ali says:


    I know its useless but Let me try one more time.

    PS. By the way muleteers have no respect for freedom of expression and freedom of thought. Where they fall short of putting rational counter-arguments and can not execute or ban someone, they start begging them to go away. Typical cargo-cult behavior.”

    Constantly attacking everyone, from posters to whole nations, is not having fruitful discussions. Its not useful. You are not willing to move one inch in your viewpoints. You don’t come here to discuss or debate or engage positively. You come here to rant angrily at everything. Its pointless as you can see that you have been doing the same for the last few years.

    You have been engaged by various people. Iraniana from different viewpoints. Non-iranains. And with almost everyone you have been attacking

    You say things “like you can join other retards on this forum who do not receive my wisdom any longer.” That’s exactly it. We aren’t on here to receive your widsom. Why not start a blog, write a book, or give speeches? Then those that are interested can come and listen and “receive your wisdom”.

    Ultimately, this is the blog of the Leveretts regarding a specific topic. We are supposed to have conversations regarding the topic. If you think you have worthy pearls of wisdom, then you have many paths. As I said, blogs, books, speeches but you can also add podcasts, YouTube, and so on.

    Me asking you, BEGGING YOU, pleading with you, is not about restraining freedom of speech, its about wanting this community to be fruitful and not just about you.

    So, please, kindly take this into consideration.

    To others, I know Smith will most likely ignore this but I’m posting this anyway.

  99. M.Ali says:

    “Karl.. says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:49 pm
    M Ali

    In short, its hard since we do not know what a deal might look like.
    For example how will the sanctions be lifted? Will the republicans even accept lifting them? Also what happens after the deal? How will Iran and US approach each other? Status quo? Will the deal actually change anything in the longer perspective? I dont know.

    What are your views?”

    Predicting politics is like predicting the weather. Can get it right something’s but it still doesn’t seem to make sense.

    It doesn’t make sense to me that a deal will be done but then why all the talks. Is the republican & Netanyahu stuff all just for show or are Obama and democrats really on a collision course with them? Are the Saudis concerned or is that also just politics?

  100. Kooshy says:

    Smith one more time, you and your distractive Tanghieh mentor Fyd have both cursed me before on this very site for cutting you doing the same thing , that I wouldn’t forget. But I most congratulate you two for technologically and scientifically discovering that sniffing white Ashkenazi asses is superior to being an Iranian Jew.

  101. Nico says:

    Sammy says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    Sure, the guy interviewed in Davis told it also.
    The elite is in state of panic.
    They fear their own population.

    Globalization is at the end of the road and it needs a major correction.
    Only they do not know how to manage that.
    Between their own population in the first hand and the other geopolitical powers (China ?) in the second hand. And in between you have all the interwoven economic ties and supply chain construct (iPhone ?) as well as invidual, class, corporate and other interests playing their cards.

    The US needs to keep their power over raw materials and chiefly oil for the judgment day in order to be in the best position when the whole system collapse.

    USD is not the issue. Military power, control of raw materials, control of supply routes and knowledge economy is the core of the matter.
    Actually when the system collapse (be it from the fall of the USD or any other means) everybody and all countries will suffer.

    For now, the best way forward for geopolitical competitors is to take the benefit of the current phase of the world order and to increase their own force. To be ready with their best trump cards at hand when the time is ripe.

    In the meantime the terrorist thing and and so called Islamic threat is quite entertaining and allow nice social control.

  102. Smith says:


    How come these people are oblivious to the non-ending economic war being waged against them? Is it because they are not among the suffering masses? Or is it because of the “great shame” they feel in admitting their weaknesses needing solutions?

    I am amazed. They believe if a document on nuclear issue, is signed tomorrow, the economic war is going to end. Short of Iran reaching a final and complete political settlement (Leveretts’ grand bargain theory) with United States, there will be no shortage of reasons to sanction Iran more, even if nuclear issue some how is settled. From “human rights” to “democracy” to “women rights” to etc etc.

  103. M.Ali says:

    I have been looking at these old pics of Iran and recently,


    “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there” really holds true. I kept looking at the pics and it doesn’t feel like Iran, not like the Iran I have in my head,the Iran that I know.

    I keep looking at these pics and I feel that ancestry and heritage and history and nationality are a bit overrated and overstated.

    This may seem to off topic and maybe it is but I still feel that its connected to the conversations in this site past and present. Most disputes are rooted in history but if history is so…alien…than it all just feels a bit…silly.

    I’m thinking out look. Feel free to look at pretty pics and ignore everything else I’ve said.

  104. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 7, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    There are many in Iran who understand and have understood that an economic war is being waged against Iran; for example Pasdaran leaders, if am sure, understand what is going on.

    The nuclear negotiations is neither a peace deal nor even the prelude to a peace deal – a grand bargain.

    The Grand Bargain parameters that the late General Odom was recommending in 2006 no longer obtains; those were before 2006 War against Hezbollah, before the repeated wars against Gaza, and before the Wars against the Syrian Arab Republic and now ISIS.

    Axis Powers failed to eviscerate Iran economically; breaking Iran’s social fabric and turning Iranian women – like 1990s Iraq – into whores.

    By the time they realized that they had wrongly tested the patience of Iranian people – ignoring the advice of Mr. Khamenei 5 years ago to them – Iranians and their allied states and peoples had carved out their sphere of influence in the Near East.

    Axis Powers now have to contend with a resurgent Russian Federation as well as a smoldering China and ISIS and various jihadists all over the Muslim world.

    They want to stabilize the situation with Iran and then come back in 10 years or so and destroy her or otherwise clip her wings.

    After Axis Powers economic war was defeated by Iran, their only other alternative was to invade Iran – and they did not have enough soldiers for that – never did – that was the whole foundation of the late General Odom’s approach to Iran; “we do not have enough soldiers to occupy Iran for 20, 30 years, let’s try to settle with them.”

    The weak-minded Iranians to whom you refer are not going to be directing Iranian policies moving forward. Trade with EU, if sanctions against the Iranian Central Bank are lifted, may resume but it will not go back to the levels prior to the start of the economic war in 2010.

    This is just an armistice and likely both sides will begin cheating and dragging their feet from the get-go.

  105. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    Your response is at odds with your earlier assertion regarding privatization. So, privatization is an ongoing process in Iran but it has not been successful in your view. A rather circuitous statement to say that Iran is attempting to implement a solution you advocate – but, you happen to disagree with the pace, method, or the scale of implementation, or the people who are implementing it, or …

    It raises a serious question of sincerity since statements are often couched in dismal tones of hopeless incapacity on the part of Iranians. It is one thing to say, “they are trying but can do better”, it is another to insinuate that little of value is being tried.

  106. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 7, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    Privatization began under Mr. Rafsanjani’s administration.

    I exercised patience, knowing that under the late Margaret Thatcher’s government, UK succeeded in only 16% of the crown corporations during her 12 years in office.

    But that was real privatization and not a sham one.

    In Iran, the true privatization percentage has been closer to 4% – over a 20 year period.

    The rest was sham.

    I believe that true privatization in the sense that the majority share holders can appoint the officers of this or that privatized corporation or company has not taken place at sufficiently large scale in Iran.

    This whole discussion started from the need for an independent private banking system that has the ability to assess business risk and then to assume it; i.e. Merchant Banks.

    Which is also lacking.

  107. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 5:00 pm

    Your assessment is not consistent with IMF statements (see below). You can dispute or discount these reports, but then you are left with what I had stated before – that you are unsatisfied with some aspect of implementation. Then, rephrasing my earlier point, making a statement about the pace, scale, or scope of an endeavor is a vastly different statement than a claim of non-existence in concept.


  108. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 7, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    I never stated that private banks do not exist in Iran. Only that they are not existent to the requisite level to support a private economy.

    I would like to draw your attention to the case of Sweden – also a socialistic country, that has 1/8 of the Iranian population with a PPP of about half of Iran.

    It has about 100 indigenous banks.

    Iran has about 25 banks of which 6 or 8 are privatized and therefore might have an appetite for risk.

    I think the number in Turkey of all indigenous banks is also about 29 or 30; she has roughly the same population and GDP PPP.

    In both cases, we are dealing with the same cultural phenomenon that prevents free enterprise to develop.

  109. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    I am agree with all you said.

    The weak minded though as you mentioned above, like their counterparts in Moracco are waiting for Spain and Italy to come and start something “big and bright”:

    آخرین تحلیل هفته نامه اکونومیست درباره اقتصاد ایران، این گونه است که پس از اتمام تحریم ها بسیاری از کشورهای اروپایی و امریکایی علاقمند به ایجاد ارتباط تجاری با ایران هستند . اگر چنین تحلیلی درست باشد با توجه به اینکه اقتصاد ایران دولتی است و بخش خصوصی سهم اندکی در فعالیت های اقتصادی دارند برنامه بخش خصوصی برای ایران بعد از تحریم ها چیست؟

    شرایطی که کشور ما دارد شرایطی کاملا ویژه است و این تحریم ها باعث شده است سرمایه گذاری خارجی در در 10 سال اخیر در ایران صورت نگیرد. از طرفی وضعیت اقتصادی کشورهای اروپایی هم خوب نیست و سرمایه گذاری در آنجا جواب نمی دهد.اما در کشور ما بخش های زیادی وجود دارد که در صورت سرمایه گذاری منجر به سوددهی برای سرمایه گذار خواهد شد.در بخش نفت، معدن، ترانزیت و گردشگری، پتروشیمی ، هتل سازی و … نیاز به سرمایه گذاری زیادی داریم.


    Note that, no investment is deemed required for formation of a knowledge based economy. Just all rent. Oil, petrochemical, mineral, hotel business etc. Living off the innovations of others. Pure consumerism.

    But one good thing, which I have been saying it for a thousand times here in the hope that this website is being read by “some important people in Iran” is now being talked openly:

    ما باید برای پول نفت هم برناه داشته باشیم، نه اینکه پول نفت را ببریم در بانک های خارجی ذخیره کنیم. پول نفت باید صرف زیرساخت ها شود. پول نفت نباید صرف هزینه های جاری مملکت شود و با آن یارانه بدهیم.

    ما باید کشور را از طریق درآمدهای غیر نفتی اداره کنیم و هرچه درآمد نفتی داریم صرف زیرساخت ها و توسعه کنیم. یک سال از درآمد نفت می تواند در طرح های عمرانی استفاده شود و یا در جاهایی که بخش خصوصی نمی تواند اقدام کند هزینه کنیم.

    این موضوع بسیار سخت است هم برای دولتی که باید این طرح را اجرا کند هم برای نسلی که باید یاد بگیرد بدون پول نفت زندگی کند. در شوروی سابق هم این اتفاق افتاد. پس از فروپاشی شوروی سابق تصمیم گرفتند و بخش خصوصی را به وجود آوردند. در یک دوره ای تمام بازنشسته ای شوروی سابق به شدت عذاب کشیدند.

    اگر فکر میکنیم اقتصاد ما مریض است و نیاز به جراحی دارد باید این سختی را قبول کنیم. جراحی هرگز بدون درد نخواهد بود.

  110. Kooshy says:

    With regard to rise of Iran and effect of a possible settlement of the nuclear issue on geopolitics of Iran / Western Asia / Eurasia or even better said Eastern Mediterranean and the future of relationship with west it’s correct that we can’t predict the future and can’t tell how the negotiations chip will fall, but there are some facts and realistic realities that can’t and shouldn’t be ignored to sum up some of the coming possible political map.
    Of the realistic facts that comes to mind are

    1- the rise of Iran and her influence at least within the Shieh controlled / majority countries of Western Asia can’t not and will not be reversed or rescinded.
    2- Iran’s scientific and technical and industrial advancement in this region can not be matched or imported by majority of her rival hostile neighbors.
    3- Iran has the largest educated and relatively wealthy population and therefore the largest market in the region.
    4- Iran’s is geo-strategic enteral location connects more countries and ethnicities together than any other country in this region . Therefore her effect of her political moves and policies and related issues and actions can effect an area which can influence many nations in the global politics , interests and events far more than can be controlled by one power.
    5- Geo politics of oil and energy is fast changing and can be manipulated much more broadly than was imagined before
    Oil producers can be as vulnerable to oil as the oil consumers are.

    Well by considering these facts one can come to assume that a possible detente ( basically kicking the can down the road) for whatever length either side will think and hope is necessary for a rosy hope of a change in either sides politics or a necessity for a geo-strategic change of alliance and alleghenies of one side or another.

    As a result IMO one shouldn’t think that this detente will proceed to become end of all hostilities and beginning of all corporations on all matters, regardless this detente will give the west to reexamine her ME policies cost benefits and what is to keep and preserve and what is a unnecessary burden to let go. That’s what is the existential issue for the Zionist and the studies.

  111. kooshy says:

    “Existential issue for the Zionist and the studies’

    Sorry, collecting thoughts and typing on phone is not easy, I was to say that having time to think and reexamine policies for US/ west equate to an existential threat to the Zionist regime of Israel and the Saudis. But regardless of their hurdles this will happen with or without a deal and no matter who will control the US government and congress this is bound to happen as US no longer is militarily or financially capable of providing security to her client states in ME. So in my opinion regardless of what Saudis or Zionist expect and demand of US she has no choice, but to do a choose and pick on her Middle Eastern interests and policies.

  112. Amir says:

    Jay says:
    March 7, 2015 at 10:27 am

    Sure, but I mean, why do you care? Even if Iranians manage to let’s say test fly Qaher-313, Smith would argue “as I had repeatedly insisted here, Iran should build jet engines of … proportions, but the cargo-cult muleteers who can only copy what the Western womb of creativity can produce…” etc etc etc. Do you want to please Smith?

    I second, as I read more of his stuff, I think he has more in common with “جبهه پایداری” than maybe Western oriented liberals.

  113. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 7, 2015 at 6:01 pm

    The points you raise now are not the same as those you raised before. In many respects the assertions have morphed into a new issues that are at best marginally related to the original claims.

    Earlier you stated that “It is a civilizational problem in which initiative at all levels of the polity is lacking in comparison to the developed areas of North America and Western Europe.”

    This is unlike the nuanced statement you now make referencing the “requisite level”. If you wish to debate the ” requisite level ” of existence of various implements of economy – please proceed. However, I expect that the discussion be handled with a degree of genuineness – without changing the color and tone of the discussion to fit the moment.

    You close then by suggesting that there is a cultural phenomena that prevents the formation of free enterprise. A sweeping and definitive statement with reference to the word “cultural” in a manner that leaves so much room for interpretation that it renders the term meaningless. Do you mean that Iranians have not experienced commerce in the past three millennia? Is there some genetic or epigenetic modification that prevents Iranian from embracing their indigenous form of free enterprise. Or, is it a structural problem in the form of transactional policies and norms that impedes rapid development. If the latter, do you suggest that a decree from the “king” should lift the veil of darkness? Or, should this be remedies through social policies that brings with it an informed populous?

    These are questions for debate. And, there are many more. Much needs to be done to bring Iran to live up to her full potential – that much is true. However, no single solipsist can lay claim to having “the answers”.

  114. Jay says:

    Amir says:
    March 7, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    A valid point!

  115. M. Ali says:

    Jay, the link you have provided regarding Iranian banks gave a lot of response to fyi’s previous assertion. As you say, because you say, “The points you raise now are not the same as those you raised before.”, I will try to actually highlight the points he initially made.

    1) Fyi “What has not made sense was to keep the banking system in the hands of the state, barring a few private banks that took too long to create and are too small to make a difference in encouraging private enterprise.”

    The article stated that since 2000, 6 licenses were initially given and then a further 10 since then. The article is from 2011, so that’s 16 licenses given to private banks (not counting privatized banks) out of 25. That’s 64% of the total banks (not in terms of market share, we will come to that). So, in only a decade, a big change occurred.

    FYI’s assertion that “took too long to create” might be correct but Iran had its revolution in 1979 and then had a war from 80s to 88. From then on, there was a period of restructuring that might not been have been the most ideal time to rush into privatization of banks.

    But yes, maybe things could have been done better, faster, more efficient, better managed, smarter, etc, but that still proves many of fyi’s previous statement logically incorrect.

    2) FYI “The state can sell the banks to the private sector or can de-nationalize them”

    This is fyi’s ‘solution’ unaware that this is exactly what was done.
    As per the article, “The four privatizations boosted the private banks’ market share from 13 percent in 2007 to 56 percent in 2011.”

    Of course, one can say that it’s not true privatization, but even if not handled perfectly, it is still in the direction that fyi deems correct. For someone who encourages privatizations, any move in that direction will be a good thing and then the criticisms will be on how best to handle it or manage it.

    3) FYI “That simple step of either privatizing the majority of the state banks or encouraging the creation of new banks”

    As mentioned before, both actions were taken.

    At the moment, there are two groups of state banks. There is Bank Melli, Bank Sepah, and Post Bank Iran as generic state banks. Then there are five other specialized state banks, such as Bank Keshavarzi, Agriculture Bank or Bank Maskan, Real Estate Bank.

    There are currently 21 private banks, which is actually larger than the 2011 report. So, that’s 21 private banks out of 29 total banks, which is 72% in terms of licenses.

    Also, fyi keep saying “small banks” as if these are mom and pop shops. In comparison to state banks such as Bank Melli, some of them might be smaller, but they can’t be called weak.

    For example, Bank Parsian (private from day one, not privatized) has 164 in Tehran & 129 branches in other cities. In 2012, this bank had almost 3 billion USD revenue. I don’t think this is anything to sneeze at, given that Iranian banks have been banned from SWIFT and international market share.

    Let’s look at other banks. Let’s look at Bank Iran Zamin (where I hold MY money). Iran Zamin is a new bank, which started its work in 2009 and has more than 350 branches.

    Other recent banks such as Middle East Bank has focused completely on B2B. This bank only has a handful of branches because its aimed at working only with large companies.

    And so on.

    Keep in mind, that aside from Banks, Iran has a large number of credit institutions that also lend money. However, these are currently don’t count as banks, but a lot of private banks start life there and then move towards getting a Banking license when they become big enough.

    After that article, fyi shifts a bit and then moves on to compare Iran with a western example. This time it’s Sweden, a country that had no revolution in 1979, no 10 year war, and has not been sanctioned by international countries.

    The comparison is, according to fyi,
    “Sweden has 100 banks
    Iran has 25 banks wit 6-8 “are privatized”.”

    First, let me look at the the Iran numbers. That one sentence has three mistakes. One mistake is that Iran now has 29 banks. As I mentioned before 21 banks are private not 6-8. And finally the third mistake is saying “are privatized” meaning that all the private banks were privatized. That is incorrect because only 4 out of 21 banks have been privatized, the rest were private from day one.

    Now, the second, the list I found for Swedish banks is “there were 36 banks in the form of a limited liability company, two co-operative banks, 51 savings bank and 28 branches of foreign banks”.

    Now, I don’t think we can count the foreign banks. Nor I think we should count the saving banks. And, “The largest banks in Sweden are “Swedbank”, “Handelsbanken”, “Nordea” and SEB, which are active in all segments of the financial market of the country. They account for over 80% of the total assets of all Swedish banks. In the deposit market, their share exceeds 80%, and in the lending market is 70%.”

    A quick at these four shows,
    Swedbank “Swedish banking company and a financial group with operations in the Nordic and Baltic countries. “, founded in 1820, a hundred or so years before Bank Parsian and such were founded.

    Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken AB (SEB) is a North European financial group headquartered in Stockholm, Sweden. SEB is a so-called universal bank in Sweden, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, also with significant local presence in Denmark, Finland, Norway and Germany

    And so on.

    In conclusion, it’s perfectly fine & acceptable, and really not also that shocking or revolutionary, to claim that Iran needs to manage its economy better. Duh. But to make incorrect assertions is a waste of time for everyone.

  116. M. Ali says:

    Let me add one more thing. Comparisons with western countries is useless. If ANY of those western countries were sanctioned for a day, like Iran was, they would go bankrupt, just like that.

    We can talk about private banks until we are blue in the face, but all of these banks got government handouts to survive.

    All of these European countries, along with darling Japan have heavy debt. Japan’s debt is twice its annual GDP. Half of its tax revenue is used for servicing the debt.

    Now imagine a Japan that is sanctioned.

    Now imagine a Greek that is sanctioned.

    Now imagine a Italy that is sanctioned.

    Now imagine a Spain that is sanctioned.

    Now imagine any country that has been treated like Iran and not only surviving but PROGRESSING.

  117. Amir says:

    M. Ali says:
    March 8, 2015 at 4:23 am

    That’s not the way to argue with Smith; he’ll say “look! The cargo-cult muleteer is comparing himself with the West! Like his grandfather has invented …” (fill in the blank by a random search on the Web.

    I can’t say what is the best way to argue; all I could ask is why do you have to argue with him? He is making some valid (in the conventional sense) points. Maybe he cares about Iran, maybe he has other motives, I don’t know. I mean, the ultimate purpose of posting comments would be attempting to influence others, right? So, he’s doing that.

    What I mean to say is, proving that he’s using hyperbole and aggrandizement to promote his cause 1) wouldn’t detract him; 2) wouldn’t add sense to the debate; you have to enter a shouting contest with him, and we know who would be the loser: the truth. The beloved dear elusive truth.

    You have made some very great points, though.

  118. Amir says:

    And one piece of advice for Mr FYI (even though I suppose he’s still pissed at me, and demands an apology):
    Ayatollah Khamenei doesn’t want Iran to become like France, like AT ALL. That’s why he’s been promoting indigenous plans for progress (scientific, cultural, defense and security-related, etc). That’s why I think promoting whatever is central to French (or whatever) success, wouldn’t necessarily lead to the outcome the Leader desires (just saying so that you wouldn’t get uncomfortable when some of your ideas got dismissed).

  119. M. Ali says:

    Amir, I agree. You are completely right on the first count.

    I would also like to add on your second point. Obviously, Iran does want to emulate France on all counts. France has been an influence in certain parts of the Islamic Revolution, but there is enough evidence that the Islamic Republic project was never supposed to be a clone of the French system.

    If Khamenei wanted Iran to be like France, then we would have seen strong attempts at trying to turn it into a secular system, for example. We have enough evidence to show that is not the case, which follows that while Iran might take certain attributes of France, that country is not Iran’s end goal.

  120. Rehmat says:

    Netanyahu, who pretends to represent the entire 12.7 million world Jewry even those who happen to despise him. Addressing the American Knesset last week, Netanyahu reminded his Judeo-Christian audience the story of Queen Esther of Persia to emphasize that time is running out for Barack Obama to bomb Iran to save the world Jewry.

    I think it’s time to remind these anti-Iran evildoers not to forget the Holocaust of 35,000 Iranian Jews who are very proud of their Persian heritage.

    “Jewish people have lived continuously in Iran for nearly three thousand years. They are guardians of a rite of ancient pilgrimage to the tombs of Esther and Mordecai, the prophet Daniel and the beloved Serach Bat Asher whose stories are well known to the Jews of the Middle East. Iranian Jews possess a 1,800-year-old Torah in Hamadan and a rich historical memory. They are proud of their religious Persian Jewish identity. The Jewish communities of Iran should be considered a spiritual heritage by people of faith everywhere,” says Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb who visited Iran in 2012 as part of an interfaith delegation. Watch two videos below.


  121. Jay says:

    M. Ali says:
    March 8, 2015 at 4:09 am

    Thank you for taking the time to read through the document I linked. As you point out, what is documented runs counter to the assertions made by various individuals here. On the whole, the document paints a different picture than the one painted by rhetoric posted here. To my mind, once presented with these facts, one simply can accept the shortcomings in one’s rhetoric, learn from the topic, and discuss the ancillary issues. But, regrettable, as Amir points out, once the flaw is demonstrated, the discussion is reshaped to fit a goal that I cannot decipher.

  122. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 7, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    There is an empirical phenomenon which is that the only inheritors of the very tiny (from a historical perspective) Greek Rationalism have been the states of Western Europe which went on to build the world that we see.

    It is also an empirical fact that the best imitation of these states among non-Western people has been Japan and Russia.

    Other states, even with a lot of collective effort, wind up in the so-called “Middle Income Trap” – which you can investigate yourself.

    When I write, I have all of these in mind, but I cannot write a dissertation about what needs to be done.

    I point out glairing items that are missing – in comparison to the very successful North American and Western European states and Japan – that could be addressed through government action; such as privatization of banks, availability of credit to small entrepenures as well as large corporations etc.

    There are other missing things such as the desire to learn and to explore, the urge to build something grand or big, the ability to innovate that and the wherewithal to imagine that which does not exist and make it real which I do not know how can be addressed.

    Turkey and Iran are part of the same civilization and are, in my opinion, suffer from the same systemic dysfunctions. Why is it that the GDP of Sweden is half that of Iran or Turkey with 1/8 of the population?

    This is the question from economic point of view.

    Why is that Holland has 2 living Physics Nobel Laureates – both at Groningen – while Muslim countries, with their claim to an authentic and vigorous civilization have none?

    Why is it that zero research is being done on climate change in all these arid countries that could be more severely affected by global warming?

    Mr. Smith mentioned how Tehran Bazar merchants and dealers are resistant to change. He was only half right; men in their 40s and 50s there are full of plans and imagination – their elders are not; they just want to live their day-to-day life and are keeping men of action and imagination reined in.

    It is not just one things, it is “Many things”, that prevents countries and cultures from charting a truly autonomous path of development. So far, only Japan has performed that miracle.

  123. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    March 7, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    The late Igor Gaidar, may be burn in Hell, was the architect of shock therapy in the Russian Federation. His policies destroyed the savings of tens of millions of people and pauperized, through inflation, the retired people and those living on pensions.

    Before his policies if economic shock therapy, USSR had one of the largest savings rates in the world. Not after wards.

    And all those people who expected to live their old age in dignity and in respect became – over a short period of time – beggars.

    When asked about all these old people selling their meager possessions on the streets to buy subsidized bread, the late Igor Gaidar’s response was that he thought of it as a great sight of entrepreneurial activity.

    Iranians do not need shock therapy or surgery; they need to grow the private sector which already exists and the laws for the protection of private property have been there in Sharia for the longest time.

    Along the shores of Persian Gulf or Sea of Oman, holiday resorts could be built for Russians who wish to take a respite from the cold weather; for example.

    Opportunities are there….

  124. M.Ali says:

    When people talk about Nobel Prizes, we forget the great implications that at present about what is humanity’s goal. It’s interesting that the the Nobel prize was formed by an arms manufacturer.

    “In 1888 Alfred’s brother Ludvig died while visiting Cannes and a French newspaper erroneously published Alfred’s obituary.[1] It condemned him for his invention of dynamite and is said to have brought about his decision to leave a better legacy after his death.[1][10] The obituary stated, Le marchand de la mort est mort (“The merchant of death is dead”)[1] and went on to say, “Dr. Alfred Nobel, who became rich by finding ways to kill more people faster than ever before, died yesterday.””

    We look at the world today and we know its not a good world. It should be obvious that that the path paved by the west is not the Ideal, therefore it should be concluded that comparisons with a model that has proven to be problematic should not be a nations goal.

    As an Iranian, I don’t want my country to be Japan or France or Germany.

  125. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 8, 2015 at 11:25 am

    I understand expression of opinion, and conjecture and discussion. Your latest post reflects matters of question and opinion. There are empirical observations regarding the pace and scale of progress in the East – specifically Iran – that can be debated. Yet, the cause cannot be simply and empirically observed – it is an emergent property of a complex system of cultural, social, and structural interactions.

    To bolster a view, you cite the number of noble prizes. As you are well aware, winning a noble prize as a measure of scientific prowess in the last four decades is biased for many reasons. To relay just one example, not that Mr. Obama won a noble peace prize while he was involved in 10 arm conflicts across the globe!

    As you state, ” … cannot write a dissertation about what needs to be done”. That is understood. You are making observations and suggestions. Nonetheless, once such observations are confronted with other empirical evidence that disagree with previous statements – for example, the privatization of Iranian economy – it is disingenuous, in my view, to simply post a Wikipedia link and relegate the question to irrelevancy!

    I agree that there are “missing things” – but, I disagree that they are “… the desire to learn and to explore, the urge to build something grand or big, the ability to innovate …”. No dissertation is necessary; nor is it necessary to denigrate an entire nation by labeling them since neither one of can provide proof of such a statement. I believe that given the right economic conditions, there is plenty of desire to do grand things in Iran.

  126. Karl.. says:

    Nobel Prize debate is ridiculous and is more proof that this debate last days really is about the obsession by some non-westerners to become westernized at the same thime they shame their own tribe/ethnicity/nation.

  127. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 8, 2015 at 1:34 pm

    I do not address M. Ali sine he has not yet apologized to me.

    My point was that there is evidently no agreement even on the number of private banks, let alone the level of their capitalization, their books of business, and so on.

    I recall very well Mr. Ahmadinejad’s speeches asking the question: “Why is there no capital available to 5 young engineers wishing to start a new business?” back in 2002.

    Perhaps things have changed substantially since then; that there are private banks – retail and merchant – currently operating in Iran that have an investments office with risk analysis and assessment staff that are undertaking to fund this or that commercial or industrial venture.

    I have not seen any evidence of that reading Iranian papers.

    “Privatization” in Iran is real – 4% real – the rest is smoke and mirrors.

    That is a polity in which large scale capital accumulation and industry is viewed negatively in almost all levels of society.

    Significantly, wheeling-an-dealing is acceptable, but building up an industrial conglomerate is not.

    I wish these features that I had enumerated for you were confined to only Iran in which case Iranians could have emulated those Muslim states that exhibited a desire for learning and exploration, with imagination and creativity that surpassed those of the European states.

    Alas, there is no such Muslim state – this is a civilizational challenge.

  128. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 8, 2015 at 11:29 am

    Yes. 13 “private” banks that are run by the government directly and indirectly. A question, one can ask is, what these 13 private banks have invested in? Imports? Besaz-befroshi? Dalali? Has anyone of them underwritten a few technology startups?

  129. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 8, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Not at all; it is not ridiculous.

    Nobel Prizes in Medicine, Chemistry, Physics, and Literature as well as such prizes as the Fields Prize are surrogate measures for the creativity and the depth and vigor of innovation in different states.

    The fact remains that the ability to envisions and imagine new things and bring them forth into existence is one of the gifts that God has bestowed on Man. This is one of those qualities that Man partakes of God’s qualities.

    And there are people alive today because of all the medical innovations that came out of Western Europe; the germ theory of disease, the inflammation theory of disease, antibiotics and medicinal chemistry, the Green Revolution, new surgical techniques an procedures and so on so forth.

    Calling all of this “Emergent Phenomena” is avoiding the central question of development: Why is it that Euro-Americans can do so and of the non-Western people only Japan is a distant contender?

    Iran is not so poor as not to be able to afford medical research etc.

  130. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 8, 2015 at 11:50 am

    I am agreed. The state has to just leave these matters to public. In United States, like in many other developed countries, the government actually gives grants to young students and graduates wanting to setup their own companies, thus creating employment as well as new inventions and innovations.

    We ofcourse can not expect anything like this in Iran (a cargo cult nation living off other people’s innovations and then shamelessly announcing that they do not want to be Germany or France but still keep using every product and innovation of Germany and France in their hypocritical lives): http://startx.stanford.edu/

  131. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    March 8, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    I guess, as you have said, the impediment really comes down to will of a people. This kind of will does not exist in a place like Iran. That is why even if by a mistake afew thinkers and creators are born in these countries, they have to leave and settle down in West. The will of these people is that of a cult that magically (almost divinely) gets its stuff delivered from faraway lands.

    No will exists to even investigate who designed these stuff and who produced them and how and even why. As you can see even here, their supposed “doctor” is quite a flag bearer of the cult, despite using Western invented medicines, Western designed equipment and Western knowledge to ‘earn’ his living. Shame is another thing that is lacking along with the existence of their chronic jealousy.

  132. Karl.. says:


    You cant compare different cultures like that, its self evident, there is a big interest in these topics in the west, in Iran its not, just deal with it.

    If the Middle East region created a prize to give out every year on certain topics that is of great interest for the middle eastern people/culture, vs lets say western nations, who do you think would get it? Well obviously their own people and not any westerner. Why? Because such prize are dependent on the culture itself.

    The fact that Nobel prize is a hyped up arbitrary prize given out by the norweigan government is another reason why it should not be taken so seriously.

  133. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 8, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    You are missing the salient feature of the current historical epoch; a world that is created an sustained by the Western people for the Western people.

    The highest exponent of this civilization, the United States, walks all over the lesser peoples, countries, and civlizations; causes problems and carnag, all the while being oblivious to the interests of those people.

    That is the reality as I see it.

    The interests of Iranians, or Sudanese or Mongolians or Koreans are not taken into account in running of this world.

    And if and when a lesser people, such as the Iranians, refuse to obey the diktats of the Western people, then all tools in the possessions of the Western people are turned into a weapon to destroy that country.

    Each country or culture, as you say, may have its own interests but those cultures will not be left alone to fin their own path or continue to do as they wish – they will be dominated and dictated to by their superiors.

    Japanese decided that they did not wish to be dictated to, ergo the Meiji Restoration and defeat of the Russian Empire in 1905.

    Before them, the late Peter the Great and other Emperors of Russia made the same decision.

    This the way of the world; be a Master or be a slave.

  134. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 8, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    At this point, the discussion is revolving around topic substantially unrelated to my original point. There are many ills of society in Iran – as there are many ills of society in the west. We do not dispute the need to address these ills. To accomplish indigenous change requires understanding, ability to adapt and adopt, and willingness to change – in Iran all these elements are present. There are structural deficits, but I believe they will be addressed. I do not think other Muslim states can a model – but, I do not see that as an obstacle.

  135. Karl.. says:


    But if the western hegemony is the problem why do you suggest that Iran should use the same “developing” ways west have been using/used (meaning in the long term that Iran itself will be an enabler of the western hegemony)?

    So a country is threatened by another country, they could 1. either give up its culture, ways of living, its history etc and applying the threatening country’s diktat or 2. they could keep their culture, expanding their knowledge through their own way and developing their society according to their own independent way.
    To me Iran is definately number 2 and should be, isnt this the way to go?

  136. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 8, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    There was a 3rd way, which was that of Japan before the military coup there; when their racialism and their limited success in emulating the Western people got into their heads and they thought that they were a match for the United States.

    As for number 2 option, Iran cannot maintain her culture – the way people live – already that culture is very different than what it was at 1900 – you only need to look at present day Afghanistan or Pakistan to see the difference – or even Egypt.

    But now to you other point in the “second path” – that requires being able to retain their strategic autonomy and be able to resist the diktats of the Western people. Unless they can do so, they will be relegated to such status as deserving of the powerless and poor.

  137. fyi says:

    Mr. Karl:

    All cultures are not equivalent or equally deserving of our collective respect and tolerance


    200 years ago, a Brahmin could have asked for tolerance and indulgence from the English whenever Hindus were going to burn widow on the funeral pyre of her dead husband.

    “Raisez l’infame” – as the late Francois-Marie used to say.

  138. Amir says:

    Like I said, Smith is taking words out of Ayatollah Gharahi’s (آیت الله قرهی) mouth.

    I said before, and I say it again, I don’t count myself as a scientist, or someone who has achieved a breakthrough or anything; hence, I don’t take offense when my shortcomings are brought to my face (if that’s the right expression). If I am really a man of substance, I might try hard and add something to the existing body of Medicine. All I could do is try my best and ask Allah for guidance and assistance.

    Mr Smith makes some correct points and we agree on more than one point, but if he is asking me to part with my faith, I sincerely hope I would never do that (better to be a faithful muleteer than a faithless whatever).

  139. Karl.. says:


    Not sure what that have to do with our discussion.
    If one is going to cherry pick like that, you will end up sympathize with no one.

  140. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 8, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    The issue is what are the cognitive abilities of the civilization of Islam in her dealing with a world constructed by the sister civilization of the Western Europe?

    The Sinic Civilization lacked cognitive abilities required to deal with the world as it found it; it shattered and the CCCP has been trying to keep the pieces stitched together since then.

    Large parts of the world – Africa and South America – have accepted their inferior position and are looking to the Euro-Americans to show them the way.

    [Some South American thinkers actually boast about this “Third Way” – a nowkar wallowing in the joys of being a servant.]

    Banks are mere tools, market economy is another tool, etc. By themselves they are of no intrinsic interest – what is of intrinsic interest is the ability to enrich and prolong human life in peace an tranquility all the while maintaining one’s freedom of action and choice.

    EU states demonstrated to any and all that if they wished, they could choke any country that they desired.

    [They failed in Iran only because Iran had been preparing for war for a decade – under directions of Mr. Khamenei.]

    And that any such country could not retaliate against them – Iran included.

  141. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    March 8, 2015 at 3:40 pm

    Do you find the Kenyan culture in which a person mutilates another human being because he attributes magical properties to that person’s body parts – due to skin pigmentation – worthy of respect?

    That is the authentic culture of those people.

    My point is very clear – culture – the way people live today – has no intrinsic merit that recommends its preservation as an ultimate goal or object of either policy or personal choice.

    The cultures must be judged on basis of their ability to deal with the world as they find it – in a rational manner – if possible.

  142. Amir says:

    And one last (hopefully) thing! Something has been weighing on my heart for a while, and that’s the ceaseless application of muleteer and bricklayer here. Yes the man can have a mind that is weak and a back that is strong, he could be manipulated, he could be ignorant, but what purpose does all of your discussions fulfill, if it’s just about a civilization-y thing? Who cares? Amassing armaments, developing technologies, conquering that piece of land, … for what? Glory? But what is glory? If Iran was 2 million square kilometers, would they give the extra .4 to you? All I’m asking is “don’t lose perspective”.

    And on the muleteers, I wholeheartedly follow the example of Emam Khomeini, when he said من یک تار موی شما کوخ نشینان را با کاخ نشینان عوض نمیکنم
    No wonder he’s been held so dear by so many for so long. No wonder I wish I had seen him. That’s the way to inspire a nation! Not by calling them names. Not by belittling them. And especially, not by generalizing the vice of a few, to the many.

    Also we could say muleteers and bricklayers have been doing the heavy-lifting while the intellectuals have been back-stabbing and stone-walling. Judge for yourself who deserves praise, and who deserves reprimand.

    بنده از رحمت و هدایت خداوند ناامید نیستم، اگر شامل حال بنده شده میتواند شامل حال هر فرد دیگری هم بشود

  143. Salamatian says:

    So close, yet so far. Iran and the West are close to accomplishing what so many in Washington and Tel Aviv are terrified of – a negotiated end to the Western standoff with Iran. Israel’s Netanyahu has made it clear: war is better than peace. Can Washington finally say ‘yes’ to peace?

    CrossTalking with Mohammad Marandi, Gareth Porter, and Chuck Freilich.


  144. Karl.. says:


    I dont see how the alledged culture of anti-witchcraft in Kenya have to do with the way, atleast I have talked about culture here, the culture of today middle easterners’ arent going anywhere and I see no reason not to respect their culture. Its not up to me to decide or diktat how other peole should live or develop their society, sure one could have criticism etc.

  145. Jay says:

    Amir says:
    March 8, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    My cab driver on Thursday made some very good points – without being degrading to others.

  146. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    March 8, 2015 at 3:47 pm

    Clearly, at the individual level, the cognitive capabilities exist – at least, those on this forum would presume so. The emergence of civilizational cognitive capacity is a complex matter. Mere existence at the level of individual is not sufficient for answering the question.

    The capacities of EU banks is a structural problem – not a civilizational problem.

    Banks are mere tools! It is the structure of society, culture, and politics that makes banks useful for creation of capital – or not! Once again, a complex issue that requires an empirically derived indigenous solution.

    Concepts from the West may be useful as guideposts – but, they are not the posts to rest the foundation on.

  147. kooshy says:

    Jay says:
    March 8, 2015 at 2:56 pm

    “To accomplish indigenous change requires understanding, ability to adapt and adopt, and willingness to change – in Iran all these elements are present.”

    It’s interesting that these two Zios wants us to believe the reason you Iranians cannot Progress therefore you will not have the capacity to Rise is because you are culturally not adoptive but in another sentence the zio made he wants you to believe that the culture and traditions you have today is not the same that you had 100 years ago, for life of me in at least last five years I couldn’t figure out what other than Iran’s capitulation to west will make him satisfied.

    Nevertheless, one must be totally ignorant or hope that we are and refuse to mention the fact that if only because of her geographic location, both in the old world (beginning of civilization) and again now in the new world, Iran has been the most adaptive nation both culturally and politically than any other nation or civilization in mankind’ history. If it wasn’t for that adaptability of the Iranians, Iran would not have survived both culturally and politically for 3 millenniums, like as history and current culture is evident the old land of Israelites and Judea didn’t survived till this day, their incoherence and non-adaptability is more and more because of their refusal to accept others as equal, we all know this current Israel is not the same as the biblical Judea it is what westerners made and settled their own Ashkenazi kind to have control of the eastern Mediterranean.

    One Just need to imagine the number cultures, and language and political systems some good some bad have been imposed on this nation, and if they are still there in format that they were introduced to the Iranians, if not where are them why we see them every day but we don’t recognize them as anything foreign Like a simple “Khan” “Khanom“ or Mercy” etc. etc.

    This two zios new line is that the Iranians are culturally incapable of adaptability and progress, that is totally a BS, as matter of fact the inadaptable are these two and their Zionist owners which they could not adopt to new Iran who started to progress forward like she did many times in her past history on her own, once she was able to pull herself free from these guys western owners.

  148. kooshy says:

    Comparing Iranians to Jewish Israelites of eastern Mediterranean, one can see that unlike Iranians the Israelites were never able to accept and become adoptive to others, they didn’t accept the Egyptians, Greeks Romans , Spaniards European, etc,. As matter of their inadaptability they have been constantly on move for not willing to accept others, even people from their own country origin. They are thought to believe their identity is their religion and not their origin and culture, therefore for likes of this two zios sucking on white European Ashkenazi is preferable to everything Iranian.

  149. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    March 8, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    Good! We are getting somewhere.

  150. Jay says:

    kooshy says:
    March 8, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    Suffices to say that I believe that it is structural problems that is preventing Iran from propelling herself to the “front of the pack”. These structural problems exist both from within and without. There are plenty to criticize and try to make right, but Iranians have demonstrated creativity and the will and desire to experiment, learn and make progress.

    At the same time Iranians have endured wars of one kind or another for the past thirty some odd years. They have had to fight these external wars while at the same time they were trying to reorganize internally. Internally, the foundational elements for transformational changes did not exist early on – the intellectual force was there from the beginning, but the practicable elements of implementation took time to develop. And, its implementation will take yet more time.

    As has been the case throughout history, when a nation leaves the yoke of colonialism and begins to chart her destination, corruption surges – often embodied in the thinking of the previous generation of the colonialized. This is a natural course of events, in my view. The most significant measure as I view it is the fact that Iran and Iranians, by and large, are making strides toward a more stable and democratic society with great capacity to create intellectual and financial capital. I would have enjoyed to see it occur at a faster pace – but, I am happy that to see that the progress, as it is, remains indigenous. Those who wish to “bomb it away” have now understood – Iran’s progress is genuine.

  151. James Canning says:

    Is there any doubt that Netanyahu strongly wishes to continue the growth of the illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank, and that he sees the “threat” from Iran as highly useful in that context?

  152. James Canning says:


    What you portray as “corruption” surely is not much different from what obtained in Persia several centuries ago.