Flynt Leverett on Iraqi Politics, Iranian-Iraqi relations, and How to Think About the Islamic State

isisaug2014

Shortly before Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki announced that he would support the nomination of Haidar al-Abadi to replace him, Flynt appeared on KPFK’s Background Briefing with Ian Masters to talk about Iran’s relations with Iraq and the importance of understanding the Islamic State as an externally-supported transnational movement.  To listen to the segment, click here.

Regarding Iran’s role in shaping the trajectory of Iraqi politics, Flynt notes,

“It’s certainly true that Iran has substantial influence over the Dawa party (Mr. Maliki’s party and Mr. Abadi’s party); it has great influence over basically all of the Shi’a Islamist parties.  Many of these parties started as opposition groups (opposition to Saddam Husayn).  The Islamic Republic supported many of these groups in exile in opposition to Saddam, and when Saddam was overthrown, these groups, these parties came back to Iraq and they became basically the most important political players in Iraqi politics.  Iran has very, very good relationships with all of them, with virtually all of the major figures in each of these parties.  They have a very strong relationship with Maliki; I’m sure they have a strong relationship with Abadi.

It’s wrong, though, to think of the Iranians as basically picking winners and losers in these battlesI think the Iranians are very careful basically to make sure they always have optionsEssentially, whoever would be able to put together a majority coalition in the parliament that would enable him to become the next prime minister of Iraq, whether it’s Mr. Maliki or whether it’s somebody else, is going to be someone, almost by definition, that the Iranians have a good working relationship with.  They try not to be in a situation where they put all their eggs in one basket, stake everything on one particular candidate.”

As to why Iran continues to support Iraq’s territorial and political integrity, Flynt explains,

“I think one reason why Iran would like to see Iraq stay together is that the majority of the population in Iraq is Shi’a, it’s at least sixty percent Shi’a.  And while you could, in theory, create this Shi’a-majority state in southern Iraq (it would be an oil-rich state, a fairly populous state), there are also Shi’a who live throughout Iraq; there are Shi’a who live in provinces where they’re not the majority of the population.  And if you broke up Iraq, the status of those Shi’a would be much more exposed, much more at risk.

I think also, from a geopolitical standpoint, if you’re worried about what can happen in Sunni-majority parts of Iraq where you have this ISIS state taking root in a context where Iraq is at least nominally unitary, why would you think that’s going to be better if you actually break up Iraq?  That problem isn’t going to get better; it could, in significant ways, get worse, from an Iranian standpoint.

So, in terms of not wanting to see post-Saddam Shi’a political gains eroded in Iraq and also in terms of the geopolitics and the problems that could come up in non-Shi’a-majority parts of Iraq, the Iranians think it’s better to try and manage those problems with Iraq as a unitary state than not.”

Turning to the Islamic State, Flynt argues that it needs to be understood as an externally-supported transnational movement.

“I think it is a big mistake to read the Islamic State movement as just a bunch of thugs.  I think these guys are very smart, and they have a political program, an expansionist political program, that aims to create a state which actually controls an ever-expanding amount of territory.  They have a political program that is, by orders of magnitude, more developed than anything al-Qa’ida ever came up with.  These guys are in serious business, not just from a military or we might say a terrorist standpoint; they’re in serious business politically…

I think they have gotten support from a number of different sources, including some of our so-called allies.  There has been a lot of financial support at least that’s come out of Saudi Arabia, some Gulf Arab states, for the Islamic State.  Turkey has been supportive of them at various junctures.  So they do have external support.

It is [also] a transnational movement.  It’s not overwhelmingly Iraqi at all.  There’s an important figure in the movement who’s a Chechen, from Russia.  There are Uighurs from China who are fighting in it.  There are people from all over the Arab world, really from all over the Muslim world who have come to join this cause.

So it is not just a bunch of thugs.  This is a serious movement, with serious external support and a transnational base.”

Just as the Islamic State movement has a transnational base, it is increasingly having a transnational impact.  That the Islamic State has an appreciable presence in Syria as well as in Iraq is well-known.  The most recent manifestation of the movement’s transnational impact can be seen in Lebanon, where it has attacked the town of Arsal near the Lebanese-Syrian border.  This means that the only possible solution to the ISIS problem is necessarily regional in nature.

But U.S. policy remains disinclined to pursue a genuinely regional approach to dealing with the Islamic State.  As Flynt points out, understanding Iraq’s current political challenges and the Islamic State’s rise requires a critically sober examination of the deep incoherence and internal contradictions in American strategy toward Iraq and toward the Middle East as a whole:

The United States says it supports a unitary Iraq—and yet, even before the invasion of 2003 when Saddam was overthrown, the United States for the last twenty or twenty-five years has been pursuing policies that progressively undermined any potential national unity in Iraq.  I think there’s a real strategic incoherence there in American policy, cutting across multiple administrations of both parties.

One reason the United States says it still supports a unitary Iraq is because basically none of Iraq’s neighbors—whether those are countries the United States has close alliances with, like Turkey, or whether it’s a country like Iran that the United States has strained relations with—everyone in the neighborhood says it doesn’t want to see Iraq broken up.  The United States makes noises like it respects that.”

But those noises don’t comport with the deeply destructive on-the-ground impact of U.S. policy.  In reviewing ISIS’s external supporters, Flynt notes that the United States has its “own hand to play in the creation and growth” of what is now called the Islamic State:

“Everybody talks about what a great idea the ‘surge’ was in Iraq in 2007-2008, but basically what the surge amounted to was U.S. arming and training 80,000 Sunni militants of various descriptions.  While we were training them, we paid them $300 a month each so that they wouldn’t kill Americans during the period while we were training them.  But we helped to feed what is now ISIS in a big way with the surge.

Then, after the unrest started in Syria in March 2011, and Saudi money, Gulf Arab money started flowing to this group (ostensibly so they could fight the Syrian government under President Assad), we basically turned a blind eye to all of this.  We wanted to see the Syrian opposition supported, we wanted to see President Assad overthrown, and these guys were the most capable fighters in that arena.  So, if our so-called allies were supporting these guys, that was fine with us.  And now—certainly for us and, I think, there’s a good chance for the Saudis—this movement has slipped the leash, and is no longer really responsive to some of the places from which it got early support.”

Even now, in dealing with the Islamic State, the Obama administration’s decision to launch airstrikes against ISIS fighters plays right into the Islamic State’s jihadist narrative.  As Flynt puts it, “Nothing will rehabilitate these guys like getting bombed by the United States.”  More broadly,

The biggest mistake we have made (and the 2003 invasion is a major manifestation of this, but not the only manifestation of it) is to think that we can micromanage political outcomes in a place like Iraq—whether by deciding who we arm, who we don’t arm, to whom do we provide close air support, to whom do we not provide close air support—that we can use these kinds of crude tools and micromanage political outcomes in a society that’s this complicated.  This is not just ‘it doesn’t work’; it is grossly self-damaging and counterproductive for American interests.

The demographics of Iraq as such that, in any kind of representative political order, the major political players are going to be, first and foremost, Shi’a Islamists, and, secondly, Kurdish parties.  That’s just where the demographics are.  Sunnis in Iraq are probably at this point twenty percent of the population at best, at most.

And so we’ve got to understand that elected governments in Iraq—every government elected since Saddam was overthrown has been a coalition of Shi’a Islamists and Kurds.  We may not like that, we may not like that these guys are all friends of Iran or others we don’t like, but that is the reality.  And if you want to try to maintain some semblance of order in this part of the Middle East, you have to be willing to work with the governments that are there, the governments that are rooted there, work with them, quit trying to undermine them, quit withholding cooperation with them [as we did with]… Maliki The United States messed up Iraq by trying to play those games, and it can only make things worse if it continues to play them.”

–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 

703 Responses to “Flynt Leverett on Iraqi Politics, Iranian-Iraqi relations, and How to Think About the Islamic State”

  1. James Canning says:

    I continue to see the “surge” in Iraq as a huge blunder by George W. Bush. He should have taken the advice of the Iraq Study Group, to make deals with Iran and Syria and get all US troops out of Iraq asap.

  2. Smith says:

    Repeat post with correction: …. He had become so much hurt but still he pushed for this international center to annually invite young physicists [[from third world countries]]….

    fyi says:
    August 14, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    You are asking too much from cargo cult.

    Dr AbusSalam for years after he had won the Nobel prize literally begged the cargo cult Pakistani state to allow him to build an international center for theoretical physics in Pakistan. The more he begged the more annoyed and harassing Pakistani state became. Eventually he gave up the idea. Then out of many Western states proposal which he was being continuously offered, he chose Italy.

    He had become so much hurt but still he pushed for this international center to annually invite young physicists to Italy and teach them for free. Later after his death, Italy renamed the center in his honor (by the way his complete idea was for three international centers of excellence in research to built in Muslim lands one for physics which he wanted to be built in Pakistan, one for chemistry to be built in Egypt and one for bio-sciences to be built in Iran. All three countries refused, including the Shah of Iran who despite his “modernism” was actually as much of a cargo cult as the current Iranian state).

    But to the end his love for Pakistan, remained so strong that he never applied and never got any other citizenship. A man of principle who never drank Alcohol (not even in his Nobel prize party) and remained religious. But his love for the motherland and Muslim lands, and his strong desire to promote science in them was not enough to absolve him of having been born into an Ahmadi family. Pakistan at the time was fast trying to deobandize its internal power structure and the last thing it needed was promotion of his public image (even in an indirect way).

    Now in the cargo cult nation of Iran, building a center in the name and by the chair of this American-Iranian girl is completely out of question. Just imagine she standing there with her boy hair cut, no make up, in a small shirt next to her Christian White American husband. This image is too much in conflict with fundamentals of cargo cult system in Iran. Almost to the point of being poisonous and lethal.

    Because the cargo cult can not differentiate between the scientific fruits and the personal religious conviction since it believes it is the latter that gives the earlier. And we all know what the image of personal religious convictions should look like and be like and this American-Iranian girl is absolutely the opposite of that image. In the mind of cargo cult what kind of message the promotion of this image will send to young Iranian girls? That they should become mathematicians, go to United States and marry a Christian working in IBM? This is just too much.

    Fortunately for the cargo cult there are two more options. One is to deny that she even exists which in today’s connected world is impossible. And the second option is that as long as she keeps herself, her husband and her ideas in US, she will be very quietly appreciated and even touted as the proof that the cargo cult nation works and is not at all “stupid”. All this to a degree ofcourse. Too much promotion is not good for the health of the cargo cult. Just when some one brings up the topic, the cargo cult will push it in that direction: that America’s achievements are ours and that we also are shared in West’s scientific progress and other such BS. As you can see they have chosen the second option. Wisely in my opinion for their peculiar situation.

    But one can not wonder at the divine message in this. That it was not a male devout Shia with a domesticated unseen wife who did it. It was a small girl, with boy hair cut, living without hijab, married to an American Christian that did it. Does God want to say something here? Or to paraphrase Einstein; is He playing dice? Only two significant scientific events have come out of Muslims in the past several centuries, one is this American-Iranian girl and the other that Pakistani man. One wonders what kind of a dice is this? The very few and the couple of times that it did turn, the result was completely against the prevalent cargo cult convictions of these societies. One can only wonder the ways in which the working of universe shatters the constructed pseudo-reality of liars, cargo cults and their minions. Each and every time. Is this also an Ayat? Should we think about it as Quran instructs? What does it mean? What does it imply us to do?

    Note:

    The science in these cargo cult nations such as Pakistan or Iran is just confined to politico-nuclear power plays, copying missiles, assembling cars or maybe even if they had their wishes the assembly line of Airbus. There is no desire for discovery, the joy of and its central role in human society and the solution to problems of humanity. As Qotb used to say, science is just a tool in an ideal Islamic state, nothing more.

  3. ataune says:

    @fyi

    I think you must remind your buddy that one of the strength of the great Anglo-American civilization which made her the “wining side” according to you in this battle between “Axis power” and the rest is to rely on evidence-based science of empiricist origin. Which means that for the kind of Locke, knowledge was based on factual reality and not some pre-conceived, and fallacious, idea about it. Since the facts are proving that, what you call the “Axis power”, has pre-conditions and social and political criteria to award opportunities, and maybe more, to bright scientific minds, then it is futile to reprimand non-westerners by calling them names for thinking that their problem is not to reward “pure science” and “geniuses” in an unbiased way.

  4. Empty says:

    Thank you for the posting of the interview. There is a significant fact that seems to be omitted (or perhaps overlooked) in the discussion. The so called ISIS/IS is more of a “media/virtual state” created by the US/West media complete with edited photos, videos, narratives, virtual infrastructure highways and byways. US/West/British media plays a direct and decisive role on promoting this perception and they are, in fact, done in coordination with other regional states’ hardware military support provided to this group. Therefore, to claim that the US is “turning a blind eye” to its allies supporting these people is either a deliberate or a willful misstatement. A misstatement nonetheless.

    Reality on the ground and behind the “media images” information show that most of the events are staged and even the size and number of people involved are grossly exaggerated. The interesting part is that the Western media is right there to capture these for picture-perfect “news”. One thing I am trying to find more details about is whether the video editing software and personnel are embedded with this group or they just obtain raw footage and do it in BBC and other western studios.

    But Why? Why do the western media, especially the British media, are insisting on dressing up “nothing” as “something”? Why are they insisting on creating a “virtual state” and passing it on as a real one to the world? And why are some alternative sources, including the hosts of this blog, corroborating these false images? Why are they not trying to obtain correct information from the sources that are actually on the ground that paints a completely different picture? Why, in several places, is disorder passed on as “order” in several areas of Iraq that are supposedly “under the control” of this virtual IS?

  5. Empty says:

    And here is Patrick Cockburn who has to be careful از هول حلیم تو دیگ نیفته. [in a rush to get the stew not to fall into the pot.]

    He is so invested in ISIS/IS that he is willing to overlook and sacrifice solid and on the ground facts in order to push a particular image. Why?

    “The End of A Country, And The Start Of A New Dark Age” (7/14/14) – Patrick Cockburn
    From: http : // www .informationclearinghouse.info/article39380.htm

    “Isis Consolidates” (7/7/14) – Patrick Cockburn
    From: http : // www .informationclearinghouse.info/article39356.htm

    “The Bloody Rise of Isis in Iraq” (3/20/14) – Patrick Cockburn
    http :// www .counterpunch.org/2014/03/20/the-bloody-rise-of-isis-in-iraq/

    Let’s not forget his book: “The Jihadis Return: ISIS AND THE NEW SUNNI UPRISING”

    Seymour Hersh says about Patrick Cockburn: “Quite simply, the best Western journalist at work in Iraq today.”

    Check the facts and not the fabricated half-truths dressed up as “facts”. A completely different image will emerge.

  6. Smith says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/science/2014/08/140814_maryam_mirzakhani_math.shtml

    ، سوالاتی مانند این که چه عواملی سبب شده است که میرزاخانی و دیگر نخبگانی مانند او کمتر تمایلی به بودن و کار کردن در کشور خود داشته باشند و چه می‌شد به جای نام دانشگاه پرینستون بعنوان محل اشتغال میرزاخانی، شریف، تهران یا هر دانشگاه ایرانی دیگر می‌نشست؟ این گونه سوال‌ها تلخ‌تر می‌شوند وقتی که بدانیم افرادی همانند خانم میرزا خانی برای کار کردن نیازمند آزمایشگاه‌های بزرگ و تجهیزات گران قیمت نیستند و فقط به محیطی امن و آرام و مجموعه‌ای که کار آنها را قدر بدانند احتیاج دارند.

    Or in other words, the muleteers should be chained. Or there is no future for true growth of science in Iran.

  7. Jay says:

    Society and culture operate much like an organism. There is a complex web of interactors, internal and external, that determine the rate and direction of evolution for this organism.

    Regrettably, there is an ongoing attempt here at reducing the emergent nature of this complex web to a componentized and discrete, cause and affect paradigm, presumably for the purpose of advancing an argument.

    The fatuity of this line of thinking cannot be overstated!

  8. Karl.. says:

    Bibijon

    There is no proof of what you are saying, there is no pro-Lebanon/Syria/Iran policy in the US.
    Nor did you have any proof that Israel will lift the blockade.

  9. BiBiJon says:

    Karl,

    I guess by ‘proof’ you mean reliable sources. What seems possible/plausible or even likely to me, may or may not appear that way to the next guy. But here you have diversity of opinions.

    Hopefully you read that WaPo factchecker blog I linked. You’ll notice that even Kerry had referred to the famous 2003 fax from Iran which had put everything, nuclear, Hamas, Hezbollah, regional security arrangements, recognition of Israel on the table. a companion article stated that not only Zarif had a lot to do with writing it, but 85-90% was OK’d by Ay. Khamenei. And hence my point that there’s nothing new/radical in what I said.

    Today’s NY Times front page says:

    ” Maliki Agrees to Relinquish Power in Iraq
    By TIM ARANGO

    Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki said Thursday he had agreed to step down, conceding to pressure from within Iraq and the United States and Iran.”

    Today’s Wall Street Journal headline says: “Iraq Crisis: Effort to Aid Kurdish Forces Puts Iran, U.S. on Same Side”

    Which is why I called Iran-US’ shared objectives are being loudly acknowledged.

    Yesterday’s Guardian says:

    “US to supply more weapons to Lebanese military over Isis threat

    US ambassador said deliveries come in response to request from armed forces who face growing threat from Isis”

    This seems to put US, the Lebanese army, and Hezbollah and Assad on the same side.

    Yesterday’s Guardian said:

    “Hamas talks of ‘real chance’ for Gaza agreement with Israel
    As truce is extended, negotiator says Hamas doesn’t want more death but will only sign deal that meets Palestinian demands”

    As you know Hamas is demanding opening of seaport and an airport in Gaza to end the blockade. I think Israel will concede in return for their own demands being met.

    Proof? of course not. Plausible? I’d like to think so.

  10. BiBiJon says:

    Karl,

    P.S.

    on SCO, there’s a lot of rumors going around including articles in the Indian Telegraph that SCO is about to admit India, Pakistan, Iran and Mogolia as full members. Kerry has taken the rumors seriously enough to hot tail it to China presumably to offer anything and everything to put the brakes on the rumored expansion of SCO. This creates a favorable dynamic for Iran as they negotiate.

    See http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2014/08/12/kerry-hagel-visits-set-agenda-for-obama-modi-meeting/

  11. Karl.. says:

    Bibijon

    Thanks for your answer

    1 Yes Kerry mentioned it but have apparently rejected it himself, I am not sure Iran still offer that today 11 years later.

    2 The WSJ article is just a headline put by WSJ author, have nothing do with facts on the ground.

    3 Lebanese army have been armed for years if not decades, the lebanese army is not pro-Hezbollah.

    4 Hamas have demanded lifting the blockade for years, Israel have rejected it every time. I dont see why Israel would lift it, then goes the whole thing of isolating Hamas down the drain.

    This discussion isnt about me/you are right/wrong its about facts.
    Facts like US support Israel on Hamas, are against Assad (arming, funding against Assad in the war), are against Hezbollah, are against Iran (still threats, still sanctions, still isolation etc).

  12. Karl.. says:

    one could of course add Iraq too, is US looking to put strengthen or driving Iraq away from Iran? PRetty obvious the latter.

  13. fyi says:

    ataune says:

    August 15, 2014 at 12:01 am

    I think it will be a good idea to study English social and political history, for example to discover why those eccentric Englishmen, in an impoverished island, discovered or otherwise invented the following:

    – Newtonian Mechanics
    – Maxwellian Electrodynamics
    – The Steam Engine
    – The Man-of-War
    – The Corporation
    – Radar
    – Evolution
    – Penicillin

    The Moghuls were 100 times richer, or the Mings.

  14. Ataune says:

    @fyi

    Some thinking minds are geared toward Experience some toward Ideas. While you can have both the tendencies in most of the places, Avicenna/Ghazali, Plato/Aristotle, etc… in some places you have more of one kind. German thinkers were Idealists in the 19th century while Englishmen are/were empiricist and pragmatic.

    Newtonian mechanics was not invented in a isolated island because an apple fell on Isaac’s head making him discover the 3 PURE LAWS OF SCIENCE. It was the culmination of ideas and observations accumulated for centuries throughout not only Europe but everywhere else in Eurasia. Newton’s accomplishment was to find a more suitable and descriptive mathematical notations, compared to Leibnitz, to represent those laws of classical mechanics, later proven to be incomplete by the way. And the fact that those notations made the calculation needed in detailed and specific technologies and observations much easier played the essential role in this, exactly because Englishmen are mostly pragmatic as you seems to be saying.

    But again, these are besides the scope. The point I made after your judgment on Scientists, by adopting the same Englishmen vision of the world you promote here, and I wished you would have at least acknowledged understanding it by now, is:

    facts are showing so far that no bright mind or genius has been rewarded based on skills and purity of Science on the contrary, it looks like constraints and needs of the society s/he is evolving in play the central role in those rewards.

  15. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 15, 2014 at 11:01 am

    I was thinking maybe it was better to leave this argument to the experts, but I think this has dragged on for a long time.
    Probably the reasons for technological and scientific advances of different civilizations could be attributed to wealth, organization and intellectual capacity, manifested in scholars and researchers.
    I’m not trying to confront you personally, but the England that made steam engine and Penicillin and RADAR was not impoverished. I’m sure you have read (or heard) those arguing that gradual accumulation of wealth during 16-18th centuries eventually made the Industrial Revolution possible. Actually, Frenchmen during 17th and 18th century made more inventions, particularly in the textile industry, but they lacked the capital to put those inventions to use.
    Considering the risk of becoming a target for concentrated attacks, I think there are phases in research like there are phases in industrialization. Take the Japanese for instance; at the beginning of the 20th century roughly 30% of their exports consisted of raw silk. After the WW2 they exported rice cookers and ceramics and such; and here they are now. Another example would be South Koreans who were known as producers of shady goods up to the 70s. Chinese have been considered producers of cheap goods but they could take the path the Japanese and Koreans went.
    To some extent the same holds true for research; Europe had been the center for research and scientific discoveries for over three centuries (Chinese, Indians and Greeks had their achievements as well), and then came along the US. At least in my field, the US is the leading country and although the Europeans are doing original research, ultimately everyone aligns oneself with them. This position has much to do with wealth (they can afford allocating a lot of money to projects with dubious outcomes), human resources (everyone worth his or her salt tries to get to the US; those who cannot do that turn to Europe) and infrastructure (I’m not familiar with European facilities, but just one biotechnology center in Houston, Texas, dwarfs all similar centers).
    All the talk about “cargo cult” aside, we (as Iranians) cant’ afford ignoring the facts; much of what is done as research in Iran isn’t useful to the country. We cannot even finance those that are deemed necessary, see link: http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13930524000238.
    In this perspective trying to do original research is hypothetically valuable, but practically, well, not very intelligent; Iran could dedicate a lot of resources to one or two novel projects, but it can’t expect much in return. Now, I’m not an expert, and the whole issue is a serious challenge for developing countries, but I think one possible way might be collaborative projects among developing countries, because no single developing country could muster the resources, infrastructure or human resources needed to conduct original research in a meaningful way (these projects are usually highly inter-dependent). There has been a lot of talk about such joint efforts, but I think the resolve is still lacking.

  16. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 15, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    My suggestion was very simple: here is a genius fallen on your lap; build something around her to cultivate a scientific culture.

    Are you suggesting that Iran is poorer than Denmark was in 1920s and 1930s?

    All I have hard so far has been excuses for doing nothing.

    برو شیر درنده باش، ای دغل
    مینداز خود را چو روباه شل

    بچنگ آر و با دیگران نوش کن
    نه بر فضله‌ی دیگران گوش کن

    چو مردان ببر رنج و راحت رسان
    مخنث خورد دسترنج کسان

  17. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 15, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    I could only make comments about my field; using Ms. Mirzakhani’s and others’ talents would be great thing indeed, but I don’t know how that would fit into broader research priorities of Iran.
    But that’s not the point. I assume you meant Niels Bohr when you mentioned Denmark? That’s a very good example of what could happen if developing countries tried to do original research (to be honest I don’t know if Bohr worked with other scientists or not); that is, scientists would emerge, but they would eventually end up in the US. And that is not a bad thing by itself, but that doesn’t do those developing countries any good (I don’t know if Denmark benefited directly). Again, I don’t say it is bad to train scientists who could further science, which would be in all humanities interest.
    If you check the link I enclosed, you could see there are problems with financing projects that were deemed necessary previously.
    I expected you to be more impartial; I think we should cultivate a scientific culture, but at least in my field nothing of particular novelty has come out of Europe in the past three decades; it’s not about making excuses, it’s about understanding priorities. That’s why I said developing countries might have a chance, if they collaborated. And that’s just my suggestion.
    At the moment, in my judgment, individually pursuing original research in the developing countries, and even in Europe would be to the detriment of those countries’ resources; but who doesn’t like scientific prowess? Again, I see a chance if countries engage in joint efforts for such programs.

  18. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 15, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    I think if you look at the accelerator in Jordan, they refused entry to Iranian scientists on several occasions.

    And there is zero chance of Iran joining CERN.

    In other words, your proposal is not practical.

  19. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 15, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    That’s a very good point! Please check the link a enclosed earlier and you could see developing a cyclotron (I’m sorry I don’t know the appropriate technical term) was one of those priorities (I’ve heard Iran has the best infrastructure and human resources in theoretical physics but they (Germans?) installed that accelerator in Jordan mainly for political reasons.
    When I talk about developing countries, I mean those that are willing to work Iran of course. I know it would be difficult and I don’t say I know too much and my proposal would be practical, but for example SCO charter has some clauses about scientific coordination; I’m very skeptical that SCO would be the best place to seek scientific progress but currently that and similar settings are what Iran has access to.
    Again, I’m not an expert. I’m just expressing my idea.

  20. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 15, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    I think it is cheaper to create the Mirzakhani Institute of Mathematical Sciences.

    No country will work with Iran, Axis Powers, Russia and China have made certain of that.

  21. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Amir-jan,

    “Research” happens in “stable” environments.

    In the Mid East there is 70 years of constant war made by US/UK/Israel.

    Many “researchers” will migrate to areas where there is “stable” environment for research.

    Inshallah when Israel is destroyed and US homeland is plunged into decades of internal war, “research” will migrate back to its cradle Iran and “stable” Mid East region.

    What about US then?

    Not our problem.

    The matter is a purely security-military-political matter and nothing else.

    It’s as simple as that and has nothing to do with what the two clowns go on about.

  22. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 15, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Not my field of expertise, so I can’t make any comments; although I believe mathematics nowadays requires more than pen and pencil and a brilliant mind. It requires at least several super-computers (to be fair much could be done using cloud computing, but again, not my field of expertise).

  23. Amir says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    August 15, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    It’s so good to hear from you! I was worried a bit, to be honest.

  24. BiBiJon says:

    Ali Akbar Salehi said:

    “I do not consider US as a country. I think US belongs to the entire human kind. It’s a human heritage. It’s – ah – I don’t think history will be able to produce another country like the US. Because it’s a country that has served humanity so much, in terms of technology.”

    See http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-interview-with-ali-akbar-salehi/

    When any nation produces a prodigy, they have done so for the world, contributed to the human heritage. Most civilized and sane people understand this, and place no burdens of chauvinistic nationalism — the most despicable of all tribal instincts — on that prodigy especially when his/her field is in the sciences. He/She shall go/do what she feels to be the right thing for her field, for humanity.

    How anyone can have so little shame as to use the occasion of a Sharif university graduate attaining the highest honor in Mathematics, to argue ad nauseum there’s no culture of science in Iran.

    A scrap of decency would oblige one to give kudos to the teachers of the middle
    school, high school, and her mentors and professors at Sharif, plus her fellow students, and above all, her parents for being the oyster to such a pearl. And anyone with a shred of wisdom would know the lasting treasure is the very proud oyster.

    So what is an indecent, ignoble, shameless person good for, but to to be the signage for the very opposite of what is correct, true, and honorable.

  25. Nasser says:

    The US now has a designated Deputy Assistant Secretary for Iraq & Iran; suggesting they see the matter as one. Interview of Brett McGurk on Charlie Rose.

    http://charlierose.com/

    – At around ~36:00 right from the horse’s mouth as it were, he explicitly states what I have long claimed; that it was re-entry of Iraq into world oil markets that allowed the West to finally blockade Iranian oil sales. By the same logic Western states desire control of both Iraq and Iran so they can put the squeeze on Russian oil sales.

  26. masoud says:

    Amir says:
    August 15, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    Mathematicians have indeed moved past pen and pencil. They use whiteboards.

    Computers, not so much. Especially not the super kind.

  27. James Canning says:

    Nasser,

    Increased oil production from Iraq did lessen the economic harm caused by sanctions against Iran. But Iran, as supporter of Iraqi government, was happy to have higher oil production by Iraq.

  28. James Canning says:

    Philip Aldrick has an interesting report in The Times (London) August 8th: “Britain seals deal as top US investor”. Of total $2.7 trillion of direct foreign investment in the US, $487 billion is from Britain. Japan is in second place with $308 billion.

  29. Fiorangela says:

    Empty says:
    August 15, 2014 at 12:33 am

    “But Why? Why do the western media, especially the British media, are insisting on dressing up “nothing” as “something”? Why are they insisting on creating a “virtual state” and passing it on as a real one to the world?”

    = = =

    Easy.

    The US, Israel & The late British empire are trying to un-lose the war against Iraq and un-do Iran’s Winning of that war.

    When Benj. Netanyahu appeared before a congressional subcommittee on Sept 12, 2002 and urged the Congress to support Geo Bush in his planned military invasion of Iraq, Netanyahu defined “terrorism” as a “network” of six or seven named states of which Iraq was the “keystone.” Iran was a major element in the “terror network” but, in response to Dennis Kucinich’s direct question as to whether Iran would be “next” or how Iran would be dealt with, Netanyahu assumed the persona of a Hollywood pitchman, framing several fanciful plots, all of them based on the discredited “domino theory.”

    Dominos did not fall re Viet Nam and Iran did not fall.

    This bit of reality the US, Likud, Israel firsters in US, cannot abide.

    But creating another Pearl Harbor in New York City is not going to work again — not without some preparation: “ISIS can reach the US and threatens an attack on the US homeland.”

    So far, the zionist plan is working well enough
    –to distract from Israel’s war crimes in Gaza;
    –to re-invigorate US military involvement in Iraq;
    –to arm Kurds in order to complete their separation from Iraq (to the benefit of Israel, which has significant investments in the region).
    –to shift culpability for the failure that is Iraq from the neoconservatives who planned and implemented the destruction of that state, society and culture from the perpetrators/predators to Maliki, and
    –to engineer his deposition.

    The ISIS (alleged) attacks on Christians in the regions are calculated to mobilize American Christians to call for full-scale, renewed US military involvement in the region.

    Yazidis?? Are they extras from some old Hollywood flick?

    And, when/if it becomes necessary to carry out a false flag attack on the US homeland, the evildoer is already identified, Obama has been warned, and the nation has been prepared to react with full, bloody fury against —- IRAN!

    There must not be any poker players among C Span’s producers. The stream of guests and think tank conferences they have been offering reveal without a doubt the plot to finish the job started in 2002: Destroy Iran for the sake of Israeli & American zionism/hegemony.

    In the past 10 days C Span has hosted:
    –Marc Ginsberg, hasbarist extraordinaire;
    –Madeleine Albright & Condi Rice at Aspen Institute (where alpha-fish go to die);
    –Stephen Hadley in a panel that included Mary Habeck from the Nitze School of Advanced International Studies in a discussion of “President Obama’s Strategy in Iraq” hosted by Heritage Foundation;
    –Robert Zarate (who works for Robert Kagan) in a round-table “balanced” by Brian Katulis (who works for Albright);
    –Katulis (again) with Michael Doran of Brookings/Saban, Lee Smith of Weekly Standard, Hillel Fradkin of the (sponsoring) Hudson Institute offer their responses to “Which is the greatest strategic threat to US: ISIS or Iran?” http://www.c-span.org/video/?321001-1/discussion-national-security-middle-east (The answer is Iran).

    The scheme is transparent, to anyone who is paying just a bit of attention.

  30. fyi says:

    masoud says:

    August 15, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    لیاقت ندارند – بهانه میگیرند

    این یکی هم منتظر است که امریکا نابود شود

  31. masoud says:

    masoud says:
    August 15, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    While computers and heavy equipment aren’t required to carry out the vast majority of mathematical research, there is another even rarer commodity that is: other mathematicians.

    In the empirical science, you create a theory and perform an experiment in order to validate a hypothesis. In math, you can only do the first, and the only thing that distinguishes your work from mad ravings of a lunatic is the acclamation of other mathematicians. The only way to really tell that any particular idea you have might be a fruitfull avenue of research is if you can explain your thinking to a peer, and receive back some kind of constructive feedback. There’s no machine in the world that would be able to do it for you.

    The number of people in the world who can read Mirzakhani’s work and understand all of it without in just a couple of weeks time is much less than the number of supercomputers on the planet. They like to congregate in order to improve their own chances at making progress in their work. That gives the US the same advantage that organizations like Manchester united, the Lakers, and the knicks have in the world of sports: talent attracting talent. Its no tragedy. Mirzakhani might not have made the same breakthrough in Tehran(and that’s no slight on Iran). I’ve got no problem with the US taxpayer paying her salary. The position she would have held in Iran has merely gone to a slightly less brilliant Iranian mathematician, who may not have otherwise been able to stay in academia. And make no mistake about it, Iran produces no small amount of brilliant mathematicians. The fact that an Iranian was finally awarded the fields medal took no one in any North American math department by surprise.

    As far as the US and naboody is concerned, just turn on the news or read a newspaper sometime. It’s doing itself in at quite a satisfactory pace.

  32. Empty says:

    Fiorangela,

    Indeed. It’s, as you’ve outlined, a plot written to be played out. I find the complacency of alternative outlets into promoting the perception of a state though rather disturbing.

  33. Empty says:

    masoud,

    Computers are quite essential in geometric and spatial (related to space, for those who may not be familiar) modeling. It allows spatial simulations and modeling of complex and combined geometric shapes. I know, for example, without GIS spatial analysis of many environmental models (which allow geometric modeling of plumes in various media possible) would have been impossible. As I understood, Mirzakhani’s work revolves around geometry and curved surfaces. While I’m not sure if she uses computers for modeling curved surfaces, your assertion that computers are not required is incorrect (although, I’m not sure what exactly you mean by “heavy computers”!)

  34. Empty says:

    Amir,

    All awards, including those in scientific fields, are politically motivated and the selections are prejudiced by a particular worldview. They are designed to signify and promote “something in particular” and for a particular segment of the society (men versus women; or white versus black; country of origin, etc.). This is a very well researched area.

    A lot of double-blind studies have been conducted to show, for example, when the reviewers of a scientific article or credentials of a scientist for promotion or award review the documents before them they vote one way when the do not know the gender, race, and other characteristics of the person and vote quite another way when they do know it (e.g., The Matilda Effect in case of the women or race effect in terms of blacks, etc.)

    A study published in 2003 by researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Chicago, for example, found that when fabricated identical CVs one with stereotypically white names and another with black names were sent, the white sounding names elicited 50% more offers of interviews than did those with black sounding names (even when the applicants’ stated qualifications were identical).

    If Mirzakhani’s application for this award were EXACTLY the same but from a university in Iran, I honestly doubt she would have been chosen for this medal.

  35. masoud says:

    Empty says:
    August 15, 2014 at 10:56 pm
    This is mathematics taken out of it’s ‘pure’ form, and ‘applied’ to a specific problem. It’s not the kind of thing Mirzakhani does.

    ‘Pure’ mathematics is concerned with the manufacture of ‘proofs’ that demonstrate ‘theorems’. Essentially, it is concerned with the type of logical assumptions that have to be emeded into the class of programs you are talking about. But the people who do that are rarely concerned with cutting edge mathematical research, and more concerned with efficiently producing accurate results to hard to model problems(like climate analysis), with woefully underpowered machines(for the tasks they are applied to).

    The question of whether it is possible to prove a theorem via a computer is a relatively new one, and the almost universal consensus is that no, the output of a computer program can not be taken as a proof. A human mind, or a team of them, has got to be able understand, verify, and validate every step of the process.

    The first ever theorem to have been alleged to be proved by a computer program was “the four color theorem”, which says that given any two dimensional “map” (as in squiggly lines in an atlas), you only need four different color crayons to fill in the “countries” in a way that no two side by side countries are the same color.
    It seems like a trivial thing to demonstrate, but it went unproven for centuries, or decades at the very least. Then someone had the bright idea of writing a program to “check” “all the possible” waya countries can border one another. The program ended up generating “sub proofs” for all these individual cases, which numbered in the thousands. These cases were then enumerated and the sub-proofs for each published, along with the source code of the program. And that was the first and last time anyone alleged that a theorem had been proven by a computer, because although the problem was considered as solved to begin with, eventually mistakes and oversights were found in these subproofs. If mathematicians hadn’t taken the time out to manually validate every single subcase, they wouldn’t have been able to catch them. It turns out that alternate proofs were constructed for the faulty cases, and eventually the proof has been reduced to considering only a couple of hundred different cases, and the theorem holds. But the universally adopted attitude is “never again”. So I can assure you that even though I only know enough about Mrs. Mirzakhanis work to be absolutely certain that the Reiman Surfaces that she deals with aren’t remotely like any other object I’ve ever tried to imagine, nothing she was awarded a fields medal for could have possibly involved the use of computer (other than typing up her paper, which would only require a a relatively ‘light’ machine).

  36. masoud says:

    Empty says:
    August 15, 2014 at 11:34 pm

    I think math is different than most other fields in this regard. Mathematical assertions are either true or false, and while there is some subjectivity in assigning ‘value’ to a particular result,their isn’t much. The only real disputes involve how credit is distributed when a result through the work of a group of mathematicians

  37. Empty says:

    masoud,

    Thank you for your detailed explanation re; computer utility in pure math. I stand corrected.

  38. Amir says:

    masoud says:
    August 15, 2014 at 6:01 pm
    Oh my! Thanks, I didn’t know that.

  39. Jay says:

    Masoud, an excellent discussion.

    In response to some comment earlier, let me add that not every winner of Fields medal gets a center to his/her name. Some of giants of the field, those who created new theories far beyond everyone’s imagination at the time, did not get much recognition – even got ridicule. Who? Look up Grothendieck.

  40. Jay says:

    I’d like to repeat an abbreviated and more direct form of my earlier comment with regards to the thread that started with Mirzakhani.

    Society and culture operate much like an organism. Attempts to cherry pick events to support preconceived cause-effect relationships is a useless exercise.

  41. fyi says:

    masoud says:

    August 15, 2014 at 9:21 pm

    You do not understand how these things work.

    A Star-Bright performer gathers others around him or her; like what Bohr did in Copenhagen and Pauli in Gottingen.

    By the way, Stanford is a private university.

  42. kooshy says:

    نگاه عاقل اندرسفیه
    Mentality of fyi’ and his warm up act is “having an elitist mentality/ look down at their own” this mentality which was best described on the Pezeshkzad’s famous novel “Uncle Napoleon”
    This view feeling was introduced to Iranian upper class by elitist Europeanized Iranian students returning from studying in Europe of 19 and 20 century.
    Due to Iran’s loose of territory to Russians, and not being able to protect herself in a meaning way in the great European revelry between the English and Russians, therefore for some westernized Iranian elites during the Ghajar and Pahlavi period accepting the European’s superiority (especially on science and law) became a cultured mentality at the same time looking down at their own people, culture and country was how they could show the to the accepted superiors that they are different not the same and wiser. In other words in their mentality to be fully accepted by their superiors and allowed to step up they had to step on their own kind and put them down. Some of us are very familiar with this mentality, fortunately now it mostly exist among expatriate Iranians.

    دکتر اسعدی نوشته است: “حتماً‌ در مراودات با شخص یا اشخاصی برخورده‌اید که در ارتباطات کلامی و غیرکلامی به‌گونه‌ای رفتار کرده‌اند که گویی نسبت به شما برتری دارند و این البته از نوع برتری‌طلبی‌های روا نبوده است و همین نکته شما را آزار داده است. مثلاً شخصی به دلیل اینکه در شهری بزرگتر متولد شده یا در منطقه مشهوری زندگی می‌کند نوع رفتارش متفاوت می‌شود. ”
    وی افزوده است: “به عبارتی نوع نگاه عاقل اندرسفیه که چون عادت شده، عادی جلوه داده می‌شود… حتی اروپایی‌ها، آسیایی‌ها و همین‌طور تا دیگر کشورهای دور افتاده که مثلاً ساکنان برخی مناطق را آدم حساب نمی‌کنند و حتی در کشورهایی مثل فرانسه اغلب «پاریسی‌ها»، اهالی ساکن دیگر شهرها مثل استراسبورگ و کن‌دنیس را عقب‌افتاده تلقی می‌کنند و این نکته در روابط انسانی آنها کاملاً‌ مشهود است که مثلاً از لهجه و سنت‌های آنها ایراد می‌گیرند.
    بدین اعتبار شاید بتوان گفت این مشکلی فرهنگی و اساسی در اغلب نقاط جهان است که خود باعث برتری طلبی‌های گاه خطرناک می‌شود و شاید منشأ ستیزه‌جویی‌های بزرگ بین ملت‌ها است که باید آسیب‌شناسی و درمان شود…. اما به نظر می‌رسد این مشکل در میان ما ایرانیان بیشتر است .”

  43. masoud says:

    fyi says:
    August 16, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Those are physicists, and from a different era. There is no ‘group’ that is gathered around ed witten or stephen hawking today, in the way they gathered together in their early part of the last century.

    Math has always been different, since there is no quest for a single grand unified theory. The single most brilliant mathematician alive today, if we can even speak in those terms, is probably Grigory Perelman. He lives in a cabin in the woods with his mother and her 20,O00 a year pension, and photographs mushrooms. He’s been awarded all the honours for hismwork you could possibly want, including the fields medal, and the clay institute millennium prize, valued at over a million dollars. He’s relentlessly turned them all down. He doesn’t even bother trying to publish in peer reviewed journals. Hell just upload his work onto the internet, and fly out to the US to give a few informal lectures explaining his work to his colleagues and flies back to be with his mushrooms while the other top researches in his field divide themselves into teams in order to go through and validate his work, a process that takes months even for them. He’s an extreme case, but the fact remains that mathematicians have to be so specialized in their research that very few other people in the world truly understand what they are working on. In some extreme cases, only a handful.
    So the idea of setting up Mirzakhani, as brilliant as she is, as some kind of head monk in a monastery devoted to extolling her take on mathematical enlightenment to her desciples, isn’t going to advance the state of mathematics in Iran. And to build on Jays last comment, this award is handed out every four years, and you probably couldn’t name another recipient without googling it. Just calm down and dial back the self righteous outrage a bit.

  44. Smith says:

    Iran’s scientific “growth rate” becomes negative for the first time in 25 years producing fewer documents than previous year: http://www.wipo.int/export/sites/www/freepublications/en/economics/gii/gii_2014.pdf

    Under the watch of Rouhani.

  45. Amir says:

    Dear Masoud and Jay,
    Can I ask something? In your opinions, would it be better if various research centers on the same topic were combined into a single center? And why?

  46. Amir says:

    Smith says:
    August 16, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    Putting our numerous differences aside for a second, impeachment of Minister of Science and Technology is partially due to this point.

  47. Smith says:

    Correction of the link to my previous comment: http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?area=0&category=0&region=all&year=2013&order=it&min=0&min_type=it

    Note that number of Iran’s published documents decreased in 2013 compared to 2012.

  48. Smith says:

    Amir says:
    August 16, 2014 at 1:43 pm

    Not at all. It is purely because of politics. Just like everything else in Iran, even science is politicized. Because of the entrenched thinking of muleteers and cargo cult of the society.

  49. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    If “winning” the Iraq War meant overthrowing Saddam Hussein, the US “won” that war in a few weeks.

    If “winning” the Iraq War meant turning Iraq into a stable ally of the US and Israel – – as intended by the neocon warmongers – – the US invasion was of course a failure

  50. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Discerning what deliberate fantasies by the neocons, that were used to dupe George W. Bush, from neocon delusions, can be difficult.

  51. Smith says:

    Descrating the grave of Dr AbdusSalam: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/opinion/01-Jun-2014/while-we-persecute-you

    The sick mentality. One wonders if Maryam Mirzakhani would even want to be buried in Iran, the same way that AbusSalam wished and is paying the price today.

  52. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 16, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    The real fantasy is to think that a billion “White” people can dominate this planet the way their ancestors did prior to 1914.

    That fantasy crashed and burned in Iraq yet it lives on – now against the Shia and the Rus – and shortly against the Han if the current course in the Halls of the Mad king continues.

    The Axis Powers are turning the entire planet into the dominion of war – even though their security is not threatened and their wealth is actually being degraded and squandered in this mad pursuit.

    And then there is the fantasy that they can prevail.

  53. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 16, 2014 at 11:23 am

    You wrote: “Due to Iran’s loose of territory to Russians, and not being able to protect herself in a meaning(ful) way in the great European revelry between the English and Russians,…”

    The question that you fail to pose is that why could not the Qajars, the Mughals, and the Qing protect their interests?

    I will answer:

    Because they lacked people such as myself who understood the world.

    And they lacked such people because they could train them.

    And they could not train them because they lacked trainers.

    And they lacked trainers because they lacked people like me.

    Be grateful that you have been exposed to the thoughts of a man such as myself here on this forum; else you would be still in slumber, dreaming….

  54. fyi says:

    All:

    Dr. Einhorn’s open letter on Iran Nuclear Negotiations:

    http://www.irdiplomacy.ir/en/page/1937125/An+Open+Letter+to+the+Iranian+Negotiating+Team.html

    I observer here that the of the 6 Iran-140 airplanes that were manufactured, 2 crashed and 4 are grounded due to lack of spare parts from Ukraine.

    Russia also wants Iran to have a toy nuclear program, so that they can shutdown the Iranian reactors whenever they wish to do so.

  55. Sineva says:

    fyi says:
    August 16, 2014 at 2:58 pm
    Reading this makes one very pessimistic about any deal

  56. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Hey bitch,

    Everything related to human social activity is in fact “political”. Even “research” and “science” in the west.

    OK, close your eyes, think, think, think…got it? No? Ey baba!

  57. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “Because they lacked people such as myself who understood the world.”

    Is this a statement of fact or an opinion?

    Unfortunately you don’t realize that you’re full of shit.

  58. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Hey bitch,

    You’re copy-pasting again. What happened to having an original idea?

    BTW, still eagerly awaiting your definition of “culture”.

    OK, close your eyes, think, think, think…can’t come up with a definition? Ey baba!

  59. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    “And they lacked trainers because they lacked people like me.

    Be grateful that you have been exposed to the thoughts of a man such as myself here on this forum; else you would be still in slumber, dreaming….”

    OK, this one is just pure unadulterated shit.

    Maybe you have so much time to write on this forum because no wife and children could stand being in a home for more than a minute with an arrogant piece of shit like you.

    The only benefit your presence has on this forum is for everyone to realize what kind of a-holes we kicked out thirty years ago.

    You’re a pathetic old man.

  60. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 16, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    “I will answer:

    Because they lacked people such as myself who understood the world.

    And they lacked such people because they could train them.

    And they could not train them because they lacked trainers.

    And they lacked trainers because they lacked people like me.

    Be grateful that you have been exposed to the thoughts of a man such as myself here on this forum; else you would be still in slumber, dreaming….”

    From an elitist 2nd class westernized AH such as yourself this answer is exactly what I expected to get.

    Further in my opinion such a personalities, with such a lost Nokarish mentality, as yourself, are the cause for the fallowing question you asked.

    “The question that you fail to pose is that why could not the Qajars, the Mughals, and the Qing protect their interests?”

    “If you are not doing this as a job then you really need mental help”
    People like you have no shame for feelings equal to the “choosens”

  61. fyi says:

    All:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11039214/PM-Our-generational-struggle-against-a-poisonous-ideology.html

    I must say that I take great satisfaction in this; UK, the Duke of England admitting that the Mad King has lost control of its own creature.

    Yet, they remain unrepentant.

  62. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Why would Russia want to impede power production by Iranian nuclear power plants?

  63. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 16, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    Ask them.

  64. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Russians regard themselves as “white”.

  65. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think the primary object of the idiotic US invasion of Iraq in 2003 was to “protect” Israel, and in particular make it easier for Israel to continue its insane programme of illegal colonisation of the West Bank.

  66. Dan Cooper says:

    Last week, the Obama administration latched onto the plight of Iraq’s Yazidis who were being persecuted by those awful ISIS folks – just in jolly good time to divert attention from the massacre in Gaza.

    How handy. All three US networks and the increasingly shackled BBC were ordered to drop Gaza reporting and refocus their camera teams on the suffering Yazidis and, all of a sudden, Iraq’s fleeing Christians.

    This was a brilliant media ploy. The world, which was furious at the US for enabling Israel’s savaging of Gaza and killing of almost 2,000 Palestinians, switched its attention to the hitherto unknown Yazidis, and to Iraqi Christians. No one in the US had ever heard of Yazidis but that was ok. Uncle Sam to the rescue.

    No mention was made that Iraq’s Christians had been safe and sound under President Saddam Hussein – even privileged – until President George Bush invaded and destroyed Iraq.
    We can expect the same fate for Syria’s Christians if the protection of the Assad regime is torn away by the US-engineered uprising. We will then shed crocodile tears for Syria’s Christians.

    But what of the 1.8 million oppressed Palestinians in Gaza, cut off by Israel and Egypt from food, water, medical supplies and power?

    What about the millions of refugees in Syria created by western attempts to overthrow its Assad dynasty for backing Iran? What of millions of internal refugees from the Afghan and Iraq Wars?

    There are 5.5 million Palestinian refugees. What are a handful of Yazidis compared to this sea of homeless? The number and plight of those Yazidi refugees were wildly exaggerated by the western powers to justify their re-intervention in Iraq.

    As for de facto autonomous Kurds, they have been a western protectorate since 2003 and would be fully independent today were not for fear of a violent reaction by the irritable Turks.

    Israel has supplied the Kurds with arms since 1970.

    Interestingly, the Kurds are now exporting oil directly to Israel though a Turkish pipeline and tanker while the regime in Baghdad, cut out of payments, fumes. There’s long been talk of an Israeli air base in Kurdistan.

    “They Pulled Me Back In”

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39435.htm

    By Eric Margolis

  67. James Canning says:

    Dan Cooper,

    The moron in the White House was warned before he attacked Iran in 2003, that the invasion likely would prove to be a catastrophe for the ancient Christian communities of Iraq. Appallingly ignorant Condoleezza Rice in effect told GW Bush to ignore these warnings. US news media largely suppress the story.

  68. James Canning says:

    CORRECTION: (from above) – – before he attacked Iraq

  69. Jay says:

    Amir says:
    August 16, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Amir,

    Masoud has done a nice job explaining the more typical discovery mode in math. Of course, even in the case of math, there are exceptions. The four color problem, as mentioned by Masoud. The classification of finite groups as another example, and so on.

    John Von Neumann, a hungarian mathematician and a giant of the field, did not receive a fields medal and did not have an institute in his homeland, Hungary, for decades.

    It is hard to prescribe a single recipe – one center vs. many.

    More to the point, and at the risk of being repetitive, the line of thinking proposing these standards is specious.

    Society and culture operate much like an organism. There is political mood, history, wealth, education, individual, religion, geography, geopolitics, domestic politics, social structure, normative values, … that interact, compete, and evolve together. Individuals are both source and product of the process. This should be self-evident with a moment of thought.

    Yet, there are attempts to cherry pick events to support preconceived cause-effect relationships – a politically focused act that I believe is useless if the goal is to enhance progress.

  70. Pouya says:

    James Canning:

    The US has never recognized the government in Iran, only Obama has mentioned the name IR of Iran by name after 35 years. In case you missed it, the Leverettes make a point of says “the Islamic Republic of Iran” in each every interview in an attempt to point that the first step is for America to come to terms with the regime and deal with it as it is. They have made that point repeatedly because the US elite do not recognize the regime as legitimate. That goes the same for the Europeans.

    You also make a conclusion that I do not make. While I point out to event and actions that the West, including the US, have taken against Iran and its existence, I do not conclude Iran’s soft power has diminished. Just because Iran’s relations with the West has been less than ideal it does not mean Iran has diminished. What is your measure? When the Shah of Iran fell it made no difference in the region except to make Saddam feel stronger. Nobody missed the Shah, he had no influence in its neighbors and the region. And he was under no sanctions but built a country completely dependent on foreign imports. Can you tell me how many government will fall if the IR were to vanish? Let me help you: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Afganistan, even Armenia. It would send shockways in the region. That is influence. The IR is more influencial because of its confrontation with the Western policy. I am not sure what you call less influence.
    This does not mean that I think they should not have a constructive relations with the West. But I do believe there is no constructive policy the West has for ME.

    Here is Western policy: poor weanpons among anyone and anybody in Syria and Iraq (including arming the Sunni during the so called Sunni awakening) then give cart blanche to Israel to do what she wants. Well, the result is what we have today. None of it has to do with Democratically elected Maleki or Iran. Notice Iran is taking the bate.

  71. Pouya says:

    Notice the new Western Policy:

    Arm the kurds directly bypassing the government in Baghadad. They bomb IS near Irbil so they go toward baghdad and Syria, perpetuating a civil war.

    This is yet another indication of causing division in the ME for yet another war. If the Iraq government finds its footing, it will have to go to war with the Kurds to gain control of territory lost.

  72. Pouya says:

    James Canning

    The leader of the Separatist Azeris live in London. They frequently meet with British Government including the foreign Secretary. Iran has protested multiple times. If you listen the BBC farsi or they consistently make claims on discrimination on Azari’s and other ethnic groups in Iran in order to create facts on the ground. Ofcourse, never mind Iran’s supreme leader is Azari.

    Yes, Iranians should make no appologies for territories that rightfully theirs and that they have a common history and language.

    Almost every modern country in ME has no legitimacy and no historical facts to support its existence except Iran. Even Turkey has to claim its legitimacy based on the Ottomans who considered themselves Muslim Caliphate and not Turks. For much of its history it was known as Asia minor and they celebrate Nourooz for a reason. This is not to say they all belong to Iran, but it is important to realize that ME is old land and these nations have no connection to the history of ME.

    When 25 million Azaris live in Iran, when Azerbaijan’s most historic city and center of culture is Tabriz and not Baku, and when Azarbaijan never was independent until the Soviet split, then Iran has a legitimate claim. Claim the IR has yet to make but the Iranian people, including the 25 million Azaris living in Iran, do make the claim that is our ancestoral land and they come from the Mead Tribe of old Persia. Just for your information, Turkish language comes from Turkmanestan and not Turkey.

  73. Empty says:

    RE: Because they lacked people such as myself who understood the world.

    So, why hasn’t the western governments and societies capitalized on your genius, wisdom, and knowledge all these years that you have been in their bosoms? Surely, with your ‘fullness’ level, you should have been given centers of political excellence to train current and future political geniuses. It’s baffling. I think you should sue them on account of criminal negligence.

  74. A-B says:

    The West was ‘outraged’ by FAKE stories about ‘incubator babies’ in Kuwait and went to war against Iraq in 1990; while the West is totally indifferent to the REAL case of baby Shayma who died because of the Israeli anti-humans. Not to mention that the Western sanctions on Iraq during the 90’s lead to ACTUAL deaths of 500 000 Iraqi children.

    The ISIS scum dress religious minorities like the Nazis did the Jews, and they BRAG about it; while the Canadians – the happiest idiots in the world – FALSELY accuse Iran for doing this to the Jews; demonizing Iran to justify yet another genocide of Iranians.

    The ISIS cretins BRAG and upload videos on how they RIGHT NOW mass murder people in mass graves; while the Westerners, watching yet another ‘documentary’ about WWII showing the exact same pictures in B&W, say “never again!” Not to mention how the Zio-jew, who bitch about their ghettoes in Warsaw, keep Palestinians in concentration camp RIGHT NOW!

    And then the Western scum who support all these atrocities, worse than Hitler ever could do, accuse their ‘villain du jour’ for being the ‘new Hitler’, to justify another RACIST genocide.

    The pale-faced savages of European descent scalped native-Americans to get money for each ‘Indian’ or ‘Mexican’ killed; now, the ISIS scum use YouTube, showing beheadings and massacres, and how many they’ve killed in their annual reports to get funding from their sponsors. And the West is more than happy to oblige showing what an awesome force these revolting savages are. Of course, lot of these scum are trained and come from Europe, not to mention that all their weapons come from the West. But, then the West, as usual, blame the victim and say these Western terrorists – the ISIS pigs – are doing what the ‘sectarian’ people of ‘the ME’ have always done.

    See the pattern?

    K1-N

  75. A-B says:

    A smug Canadian can sit in Dubai and ‘philosophise’ that the Chinese or Korean go to the US or Canada because of a yearning for Western Democracy. Yet, many of them of older generation didn’t even bother to learn English. And then you have to ask him if he’s in Dubai for its ‘freedom & democracy’ and not for the money! But hey, ‘the White’ is inherently free and can CHOOSE, and ‘the non-White’ has to escape to ‘the White’ to be free, right? Mirzakhani maybe is true Iranian; she’s sharing her knowledge with the world (see my previous post http://goingtotehran.com/hillary-mann-leverett-on-americas-real-strategic-failure-in-iraq#comment-55431) while the West kills Iranian scientists in Iran.

    K1-N

  76. M. Ali says:

    Is there something wrong with the coding with this website? I’m not seeing any text under the names of “Smith” & “FYI”. Its just showing random images of feces. Can the admin please look into this?

  77. M. Ali says:

    Because the Theme of the Week is Math, lets try some simple Math for fun!

    Lets take an imaginary country, Awesomistan and its Super King Awesome. The King has too choices to spend his time and resources. It can either try to stop scientists leaving his country or try to increase the scientists. His advisors tell him to focus on the above. They tell him it is shameful that the educated scientists of Awesomistan leave for other countries, such as to go to Lameland.

    They do an analysis, and see that 20% of scientits leave. With enough financial incentives and work and changes in laws, they think they can reduce this number of 0%.

    However, the King doesn’t listen, because he does an analysis on the numbers and has another idea. He realizes that they produce 10 scientists a year. When the 20% leave, 8 remain, and when 0% leave, it becomes 10 scientists. But he has a better idea. He invests in better universities, in all the villages and towns, strenghtens school, and in a few years, his country is producing 100,000 scientists a year instead of 10. Unfortunately, the “brain drain” percentage has increased to 25%. But when he looks at the actual numbers, he realizes with 25% of brain drain, he still has 75,000 scientists remaining, while with the other option of havin 0% brain drain, he only had 10.

    He came to the conclusion that, even with some leaving, his rate of increase in scientists has been so high, that the bottom line is better for the country.

    And that’s what the country did. It focused less on people leaving and more on ensuring that it had a highly educated, trained, and skilled populace. In a few more years, the increase became to 200,000 scientists per year, and as scientists increased, so did the rate of progress of the country. Sure, 25% were still leaving, but there were still more and more trained per year, so more and more available per year. In time, due to the high number of scientists in the country, the country started entering a new scientific era and there was a boom in scientific advances, which in turn, boosted the economy. This meant, more and more opportunities for the new scientists.

    In due time, with the advancement of the country, people leaving the country starts falling, from 25% to 20% and to 15%, and in decades to come, it goes the other way, as the progressive and developed nature of the country means that scientists from other countries start to move in.

    In his old age, the King is sitting in his garden, and he calls in his advisors in. He reminds them of the advice they gave him years ago, where they told him he should focus on the 2 scientists out of 10 scientists they had that was leaving, and convince them not to leave, and how the King instead did not listen to them, and instead focused on just making more and more scientists. He then shows him the country he has built. At the end of the private speech, he tells his advisors, “Get it know? Suck it, bitches” and hangs them.

  78. fyi says:

    All:

    Speech by Mr. Putin in Yalta:

    http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22820

    We read:

    “…North Korea, the People’s Republic of China, Pakistan, India, Israel, Iran – almost all the countries in the world are working on this type of weapons. So, the development of these missiles in China or India does not cause any concern to us, because these are friendly states and I am certain that the relations we have established with China and India will last…”

    Russia does not consider Iran a friendly state with which enduring friendly relations could be established.

    She is no India nor China.

    And then Mr. Putin goes on to express alarm at the situation in Pakistan.

    Iranian leaders best pay attention to Mr. Putin’s assessment, both in regards to the potential of Russian-Iranian relations as well as with respect to nuclear threat from Pakistan.

  79. Sakineh Bagoom says:

    The boomerang effect.

    You can’t militarize the entire world and stay immune to it at the same time.

    http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/dti/rendered/2014/08/01WEB_FergusonWeapons081514_13674053_8col.jpg

    “The photographs and video images of armored vehicles and billowing tear gas, of explosions, of officers donning gas masks and armed with assault rifles made Ferguson, Mo., look like a battleground.”

    And,

    “The Metro Law Enforcement Council, a regional SWAT team from the Boston area, maintains its own BearCat armored vehicle, which it used in drug arrests. The agency also applied to the Federal Aviation Administration for a drone license.”
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/08/16/ferguson-raises-concerns-militarization-police-forces/gjA76rEL94nYHwzViJsAdM/story.html

  80. James Canning says:

    A-B,

    As I assume you know, Saddam Hussein destroyed most of Iraq’s WMD not long after the Gulf War in 1991. He probably could have achieved an end to sanctions, if he had possessed sufficient good sense to allow talented Iraqis to get the job done.

  81. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    You can be sure Britain does not support any notion of uniting Iranian Azerbaijan with independent Azerbaijan.

    Persia simply lacked to strength to prevent Russian conquest of a number of provinces sometimes controlled by Persia for centuries.

    The Communist part boss of Soviet Azerbaijan after the Second World War had hopes of gaining control of Iranian Azerbaijan. As you may well know. The US and Britain prevented this, and in fact Moscow did not support the programme.

  82. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    The US supports the Iraqi central government and the territorial integrity of Iraq.

  83. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    Obama does not regard the government of Iran as “illegitimate”. I am sure you are well aware of the sustained heavy pressure on Obama, from “pro-Israel” elements in the US, to avoid being friendly with Iran. As long as Iran is not friendly toward Israel. This is the crux of the matter. Sunni issues also enter into the equation.

  84. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    The “soft power” Iran in effect has thrown into the dustbin is the great power that enormous wealth from energy exports could have been obtained and put to use.

  85. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    August 17, 2014 at 1:32 pm
    August 17, 2014 at 1:37 pm
    August 17, 2014 at 1:41 pm
    August 17, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Pouya,

    it may be reassuring for you to know that not even James himself believes in his senseless drivel!

  86. Fiorangela says:

    M. Ali —

    ““Get it [k]now? Suck it, bitches” and hangs them.”


    Everyone likes a happy ending.

    – – –

    by the way, that 25% of scientists leaving Awesomestan, especially those who migrate to Lameland, are likewise a strategic resource for Awesomestan, inasmuch as they may be able to teach Lamelanders a thing or two and insert some Awesomestan values into the crippled culture.

  87. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    You appear to argue that Russia did not conquer provinces formerly controlled b Persia. Nonsense, of course.

    You also appear to claim the Soviet Communist party boss of Azerbaijan had no desire to annex Iranian Azerbaijan. Wong again.

  88. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Am I correct in understanding you do not see Iran has having given up the sale of hundreds of billions of dollars of oil and gas? Amazing.

  89. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    August 17, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    His last post is actually correct but also irrelevant; Iran cannot afford soft-power at the expense of hard power that a threshold nuclear-weapon state confers.

    Ever since 1998 and the nuclear explosions of India and Pakistan, the continued existence of Iran as a unitary a& coherent state can no longer be assumed.

    If Iran were in South America or did not otherwise face an existential threat, soft-power politics predicated on buying or renting political favors using oil and gas income could be envisioned.

    Regrettably, Iran is not in a benign security environment.

    And her interlocutors in the P5+1 do not give a damn about her security.

    I have come to the conclusion that all members of P5+1, including Russia and China, prefer Iran to disintegrate; with another Oil-well-with-a-flag country in Southern Iran to pump oil.

  90. Nasser says:

    fyi says: August 17, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    “I have come to the conclusion that all members of P5+1, including Russia and China, prefer Iran to disintegrate; with another Oil-well-with-a-flag country in Southern Iran to pump oil.”

    – Regrettably, I too have come to the same conclusion after much thought. Unlike you I never seriously believed Iran had much utility for the Russians except as a bargaining chip against the Americans. But I did use to believe that China would be interested in the continued survival of an independent oil producer free from American or Russian domination, and one that can be linked to without reliance on maritime routes to boot. No more do I believe that. It is like you say; the Westerners, the Russians, the Indians, the Japanese and the Chinese all want Muslims to be backward, weak, pliant oil pumping servants. Iran really has no friends and should expect no meaningful outside help in its attempts towards industrial and technological advancement.

    And certainly neither Russia nor China wants Iran to increase its power by combining her resources with that of Iraq. Such an entity would be too important an oil pumper not to negotiate with. On that point they are fully agreed with the Americans and the Europeans and thus their attempts to cripple Iran’s economy.

    Thankfully as these great powers get at loggerheads with each other thanks largely to American psychosis, Iran should get the breathing space required to acquire strategic weapons, make the Shia Crescent a reality and emerge as a great power in its own right; no longer at the mercy of the whims of others. As I said before I just hope Iran’s leaders and people have the courage and strategic sense to capitalize on that opportunity.

  91. Nasser says:

    James Canning says: August 17, 2014 at 2:21 pm

    Those hundreds of billions of dollars of oil income would have only helped the West and harmed Iran.

    That money could have only been used for importing consumer goods from Western firms. Like a drug addict Iranians would have been more and more dependent on the West. While the West gets to lessen its reliance on Russian energy for cheap, Iran doesn’t get to purchase precision machinery, capital goods and production lines. What good are these foreign currency earnings when they can’t be used to purchase what one wants?!

    Iran’s interests would be much better served by using these energy resources to bribe Pakistan.

  92. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    August 17, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    His last post is correct only to the extent that it is an argument constructed in vacuo!

    Your references to “If Iran were in South America…” is in fact the key point. No such soft power would have ensued with Iran’s wealth because of the regional security environment and the desire of the P5+1 for Iran to crumble.

  93. James Canning says:

    Nasser,

    Iran would have been able to buy whatever it wanted, with those many hundreds of billions of dollars. Including buying control of important corporations.

  94. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Are you contending that Saddam Hussein did not destroy most of Iraq’s WMD after the 1991 Gulf War?

  95. James Canning says:

    Graydon Carter has a pungent comment in his editor’s letter, Vanity Fair magazine September 2014: “The $3 trillion and counting we spent on the Iraq invasion may seem like a lot of money, the interventionists imply, but a truly great nation should be capable of squandering much, much more.”

  96. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    What is the “crumbl[ing]” you contend the P5+1 were seeking to inflict on Iran? Be specific, please.

  97. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Russia and China have no desire to see Iran “disintegrate”. None. Various fanatical supporters of Israel might like to see this happen, however.

  98. kooshy says:

    Nasser says:
    August 17, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    FYD said
    “I have come to the conclusion that all members of P5+1, including Russia and China, prefer Iran to disintegrate; with another Oil-well-with-a-flag country in Southern Iran to pump oil.”

    Nasser seconded

    “Regrettably, I too have come to the same conclusion after much thought.”

    Regrettably you and the other two non-sensible of this blog, meaning fyd, and his first warm up Smith are very tardy and late reaching this conclusion, apparently if you guys were not biased on a particular view or an agenda you should have come to this conclusion 35 years ago everybody else in IRI came to this conclusion first and most the two leaders (guides) of revolution did and continue to do.

    So the question one must ask is, what is it that you guys try to get by repeating a cherry picked fact known to all on this blog ( that fact of knowing that none of 5+1 is on side of Iran due to their own geopolitics, and the fact Iranian decision makers are well aware of this for last 35 years and the fact that despite this ongoing animosity Iran has progressed militarily politically and scientifically as all indictors show) , here on this blog beside you three whoever is informed enough of the history and geopolitics of Iran for last 200 years knows the common denominators of the Iran geopolitics most importantly they consider the fact you cherry picked along the two I mentioned and drive to decision that is not on you guys agenda. As per my understanding, unfortunately all along yours, Smith’s and For your diversion’s aim is been to show and perceive that Iran is a country unprotected, insecure, incapable, and unlivable which means and must conclude that all her citizens are unsatisfied with the system (revolution) but have no choice.

    Time and time, real informed bloggers here have refuted you three, on every and each of your continued negative points about Iran you guys make, including the repeated need to have a fielded / tested nuclear device. But the fortuned part is, you three are now fully exposed to most bloggers here, just read the most recent comment by Fior to M. Ali and enjoyed her response.

  99. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 17, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    All these considerations are relative to the available possibilities.

    Between a strategically autonomous nuclear-armed Iran and a dis-integrated Iran, they would opt for the latter.

  100. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 17, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    If you had troubled yourself with paying attention to the discussions among Iranian leaders you would have noticed the extent to which they had “opened accounts” on Russia and to a lesser extent on China.

    The last 7 years since the public disclosure of US National Intelligence Estimate on Iran in 2007, I should hope, have disabused them of those notions.

    Those notions had been cherished since 1979 – sometimes more, sometimes less.

    In 2007, all these states could have taken a different tack with Iran but chose to escalate to where we are today.

    You go ahead and cherry-pick Iranian history or world history and arrive at opposite conclusions to me.

    in gooy wa in meydan

  101. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 17, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Yes, I see the finger of the Hidden Imam in all of this….

    But these are bitter lessons that have to be beaten into heads of an anarchic and emotional people…..

    Perhaps the Hidden Imam could not have found any other means to demonstrate that to the Iranian people – only be showing their abject impotence and dependence on the people who wished them ill; which I hope is finally sinking in as the economic warfare of Axis Powers against them takes it toll.

  102. kooshy says:

    “If you had troubled yourself with paying attention to the discussions among Iranian leaders you would have noticed the extent to which they had “opened accounts” on Russia and to a lesser extent on China.”

    Ok you need to show a proof an official citation that an Iranian decision maker (leader, President, minster, Speaker) says we are relying / we believe that Russia or China are going to protect us against attack, sanctions.

    AH, you as well as all of us know that Russia back in 2007/8, even refused to deliver a paid S-300 air Defense system , but you, just came to the “conclusion” that Russia is not on Iran’s side, F-off.
    Never less you imply / make believe that this was not taken seriously by Iranian decision makers, since you want to imply that the security of the country is not their first priority (you are so full of shit that your smell comes through the net by now), sorry but you piece of shit need to read Imam Khomeini’s Farwell address (will) to the nation, and his letter to Gorbachev and like M. Ali said suck on it, and SFU.

  103. fyi says:

    All:

    Mr. Cameron asks for Iran to engage with the “International Community”;i.e. Axis Powers – the same powers that have been trying to destroy Iran as a state with strategic autonomy – to fight ISIS:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/isis-extremists-a-threat-to-the-streets-of-britain-warns-david-cameron-9674015.html?origin=internalSearch

    Good propaganda….

    Iran should ignore all of these calls…

    Unless they are willing to dismantle their war against the Shia Crescent…

  104. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm

    My view is quite simple; security of Iran has to be predicated on her becoming a nuclear-armed state.

    Being a threshold-weapon state is not longer sufficient – not for Iran and not for allied peoples and states.

    Lebanon, in the words of Mr. Nasallah, faces an existential threat – via ISIS.

    Shia Crescent is under pressure and Americans are trying to get ISIS to focus south on the Shia by their small bombings of their assets.

    We do not need another person like the late Shah Ismail and another Chaldrun.

  105. M.Ali says:

    Kooshy, maybe if we had a slogan to better articulate that, something like, not western, not eastern, Islamic republican.

    Oh wait…

  106. Pouya says:

    James Canning

    Iranians feel that Azerbaijan should have joined the homeland, just as East Germany joined West after the collapse of the soviets. This natural integration was prevented. The notion that Iran sometimes controlled these provinces is simply made up by you. No disrespect intended.

    There is no such thing that Communist tried to take over Azarbaijan, that was the scare tactics used to kill people just as the fear of ISIS is used to reoccupy Iraq. Yes, there was a revolt in Azerbaijan province lead by socialist leaning people who were Iran’s intellectuals and Iranian-Azari writers in 1947. And the US threatened Moscow with nuclear war and the soviet withdrew their support. It is also true that this event was the real start of the cold war and the arms race. The Soviet realized they needed a nuclear weapon. In 1951, McArthy threatened China with the same weapon and we know what China did. Today, Obama has repeated the same mistakes by weaponizing the internet when he launched the Stuxnet and started global resistance against US banking by cutting Iran off the international banking system. Obama is making more mistakes by pushing Iran closer to Russia and China and I believe the Iranian leaders will eventually conclude they will need to go it alone and develop their own weapons based current Obama behavior in Iraq and Syria.
    My point of all of these issues is that they are short sighted policies that will backfire on us in America.

  107. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    You would benefit from a review of Iranian history during the Second World War and several years following. Soviet Union occupied Iranian Azerbaijan, until the US and Britain forced the Soviets to withdraw. Or made a deal, if you prefer. The Communist Party boss in Azerbaijan, back in the 1940s, wanted to annex Iranian Azerbaijan.

    Persian had control of most of the territories surrounding the Caspian Sea, centuries ago.

  108. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    Chances the US will “reoccupy” Iraq are ZERO. In my judgment.

  109. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    I of course would have welcomed annexation of Azerbaijan by Iran. (Assuming this is what the people of the country wanted.)

  110. Pouya says:

    James Canning

    Annexation or constant bombardment to help ones friends are all the same. Are you suggesting Gaza is not truly occupied by Israel?
    Iraq is being bombed selectively when only a few months ago was an independent nation. Now its northen province is being armed by Europeans and Americans setting the nation up for another civil war.

    Azerbaijan was part of Iran, not centuries ago, until late 18th century about 150 years ago. The point you are missing Azarbaijan’s core cultural center is Tabriz, Iran, and overwhelming Azaris (25 million) live in Iran and one is Iran’s supreme leader. Anyhow, I think we have both made our points.

  111. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 17, 2014 at 6:32 pm

    ‘My view is quite simple; security of Iran has to be predicated on her becoming a nuclear-armed state.’

    So once again, unlike what you decisively wrote I should have noticed “If you had troubled yourself with paying attention to the discussions among Iranian leaders” you can’t produce a link a citation of any kind by any Iranian leader, decision maker, even policy maker that said they are just relying on Russians and Chines for security of their country, so this now turns to be your view and not a fact that you can back up, right, just another one of your opinions with the difference, that unlike others, your opinions comes from the lower part of your body and without a reference, tag or a warning, but always smells.

    So your opinion is the IRI leaders who have fought the Americans and Europeans through thick and thin with bare hand just decided to leave the security of the country up to Russians and Chinese and you and the other two AH’s aim is to make this believed and to become an unchecked fact. Bug off, go setup your deception shop somewhere else, this is not HP blog here are too informed for your aim. If you post have a decency to say if it is your opinion, and not a checked fact.

  112. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 17, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    If you don’t believe in these things (the prophet, the 12th Imam, Islam, etc.) you don’t have to, nay you shouldn’t use them as a basis for your arguments. That just looks deceitful.

  113. Sammy says:

    Hi Friends , back from Japan ( another planet ) to my beloved ‘TOXIC City’.

    Very sharp views by Ziad Fadel , even Hans is commenting :-)
    (Also quite interesting view points about Al-Bghdadi)

    http://www.syrianperspective.com/2014/08/isis-and-the-game-nobody-can-play-neo-cons-in-wonderland.html

    …The war that must go on: Iraq stands right in between everything. The Syrian episode is evolving into a major military and foreign policy catastrophe for Obama; almost as humiliating as G.W. Bush’s titanic blunder in Saddam’s Iraq that cost over a trillion dollars and took the lives of 4,500-plus innocent American GIs – leave aside the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis he mercilessly slaughtered with the indifference of a Greek god. The only distinction of any major kind between the hapless rube, Bush, and the Chicago gutter rat and swindler, Obama, is that the latter has had the good sense not to blurt out: “Mission Accomplished” in Syria.

    It is undeniable that the Zionist machinery that controls the foreign policies of the U.S., France, Germany and the U.K. is revving up to confront the man in the street. This is a battle to the death and no amount of common sense or rational behavior is going to affect the decision to ramp up the mayhem even more in order to accomplish the following 2 goals crucial to the durability of the European Jew Settler State in Occupied Palestine:

    1. The dissipation of Iranian influence. Iran terrifies the Zionist brain. Iran is developing a technological foundation that will compete with Zionism’s own. It is part and parcel of the Jewish mind to make itself useful for the oppressive majorities among whom Jews have to live. Once their usefulness comes into question, Jews automatically fear the worst: a Pogrom, Inquest, Inquisition, Genocide. It is imperative for Jews to be viewed by the powers that be as crucial to the health and welfare of the state.

    There is a belief that Jews are smart. Some wags have gone so far as to suggest that Jewish people are from another planet (even though they do not perform better than Japanese on intelligence examinations). Jews themselves foster this notion by reveling in a self-fulfilling prophecy adorned with the title of a “Chosen People” of God. But, for many centuries, Jews in Europe had to suffer the stain of Caiaphas’s treachery – his insistence on crucifying the Son of God – an insistence that would engulf Jewry in an ongoing battle with non-existence itself. In the Muslim World, that made no difference because Muslims don’t believe Christ was crucified. But in Christian Europe, where Jews had to make the King look with favor upon them, there was always a tenuous truce between Jews and the Christian hoi polloi who were indebted to them looking for a way to escape the obligations. They had to be the best musicians to entertain those who counted. They had to be the best physicians to prolong the lives of their putative oppressors. They had to excel in mathematics to wow the intellectuals who would steal their ideas for personal fame, in exchange for which they would receive a probationary stay of execution. It is through this process of threat that Jews became smart and developed a mechanism to continue their lives by indoctrinating generations in the methodology of survival. It is seen today in their fear of a resurgent Iran. You can even see it in their fear of a vibrant, economically successful Palestinian state. It is ultimately, of course, a form of paranoia…Ziad Fadel

  114. Jay says:

    James Canning says:

    I have my own one sentence diversion in response to all your one-liner diversions.

    Living and supporting a country that holds people prisoner without charge and without providing the minimum of rights afforded to prisoners has clearly impaired your judgement.

  115. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 17, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    We all know that many in Iran claim to do so, and thus we have a situation in which a muleteer raping the late Lotf Ali Khan Zand in considered a Muslim in good standing by them and a Muslim man wearing a necktie not fit to stand for election to Majlis.

    May be you could take the trouble of explaining that.

  116. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 17, 2014 at 9:33 pm

    Regrettably, I cannot furnish you with the details that you require.

    But rest assured that I am not making it up.

    I recall one leader telling another: “Stop making excuses for Russia…”

  117. fyi says:

    Sammy says:

    August 18, 2014 at 2:55 am

    And then there is the fact that there is no organized state in the vicinity of the oil wells of Persian Gulf but the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    That is a lot of oil to be trusted to a single country; thus they need to diminish her power – per their trite balance of power theory.

    That there is no state to balance against Iran means that the preferred option would be disintegration of Iran.

    The first step was to induce hyper-inflation in Iran via US-EU sanctions on the Central Bank of Iran – something that the Iranian planners had not anticipated or had given it a very low probability.

    The hyper-inflation was too decimate Iranian social cohesion, like Iraq’s in the 1990s, and help pay the way for other elements of their plan to finish Iran and the Shia Crescent.

    Simultaneously, Syrian state was also to be destroyed – and now is the turn of what is left of Iraq.

    Libya, Syria, Iraq is what Axis Powers wish for Iran.

    In my opinion, the probability of a war initiated against Iran by other neighboring states directly is high now – Axis Powers could get Pakistan to attack Iran, for example.

    Or Azerbaijan.

    In the absence of a balancer, and in the absence of strategic settlement with Iran, continued warfare against Iran and the Shia Crescent is the only strategic choice for Axis Powers.

  118. Nasser says:

    fyi says: August 18, 2014 at 8:51 am

    “That there is no state to balance against Iran means that the preferred option would be disintegration of Iran.”

    – Exactly! Their goal is not the “strategic reorientation of Iran” as you previously thought. If that was their goal it is no longer so. Of course some Iranians still love to cry if America were to attack why haven’t they done so for so long?

    Well everything changed with Iraq! With Iraq turning from Baathist to Shia, I have come to believe that not even Iranian surrender would satisfy the Axis powers. They want a more permanent solution; disintegrate Iran, at the least seize Khuzestan and turn what’s left into Afghanistan. I think that is what they are after. You have often cited the example of Yugoslavia and like Yugoslavia they want to nip this emerging power right in the bud. And as long as NATO doesn’t get a border right up to the Caucasus this would suit the Russians just fine too. And as for the Chinese and Indians, the weaker the state and the cheaper the oil, the better; of course.

    Of course one needn’t be victims of other’s plots and schemes provided one manages to adequately arm oneself and control enough strategic resources (which an union of Iran and Iraq would do) and promise vengeful retribution if aggressed upon.

  119. Smith says:

    Sammy says:
    August 18, 2014 at 2:55 am

    The question is not about Jews. The question is about Muslims, that they are so much caught up in their cargo cult ways that they can not defend themselves anymore. The question is why 1.5 billion Muslims can not produce even a fraction of science and innovation of a tiniest suburb of Tokyo?

    Have you ever bothered in your travels, to ask such mind stimulating questions?

  120. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 18, 2014 at 10:21 am

    Unfortunately until and unless Iran does not develop a science and technology sector capable of innovation geared to meet at the very least only the basic local needs, the arrogant powers will continue to have this powerful leverage over Iran in the form of sanctions.

  121. Smith says:

    One wonders what those documents were and who wanted them so badly: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28832868

  122. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The purpose of the EU sanctions against Iran is to AVOID a war, if possible.

  123. James Canning says:

    Nasser,

    The “Axis” powers do not “control” Iraq. Agreed? The policy of Germany, Britain, France, the US, Japan, and allied countries, is to respect the territorial integrity of Iran. Where do you get these wild ideas of a desire for partition?

  124. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Germany would welcome a much richer and much more powerful Iran. Full stop. Provided Iran limits its nuclear programme.

  125. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    True, or not true: Saddam Hussein destroyed most of Iraq’s WMD after the 1991 Gulf War? Simple question; if you do not know the answer, simply say so.

  126. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    I think we can agree that Azerbaijan would have remained part of Persia, but for the expansion of the Russian Empire.

    Regarding the Gaza Strip, I think there is ZERO chance Israel could be compelled to annex it, or for that matter, to annex parts of the West Bank with too many Muslims,

  127. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 11:32 am

    In effect you are asking Iranians to risk the integrity and survival of their states for the privilege of becoming good customers of Europe.

    That is not in the cards any more.

  128. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 11:30 am

    Our policy is to rape in order to preserve chastity.

  129. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Not at all; siege warfare to compel Iran to destroy her nuclear industries is a form of war.

    Well, that is not going to happen.

    Mr. Khamenei stated his parameters and Axis Powers, Russia and China declined to accept the parameters offered by the highest state authority in Iran.

    As for war, per the postings of Mr. Hack, US will be in occupation of parts of Southern Iran for decades.

    And we have learnt since last August that war against Iran was always the end game of US if not SU.

    Therefore, I submit to you, your statement that EU was trying to avoid a war is not supported by facts – they wanted to internally bleed Iran – like Iraq – so that she could be destroyed in due course by US.

  130. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I can assure you with total confidence that Obama wants to avoid war with Iran. He would be quite happy to have Boeing sell Iran hundreds of airliners. Etc etc etc. Provided a deal is achieved with P5+1.

    Your argument essentially is that the hole Iran dug for itself during the previous president’s terms of office is too deep.

  131. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Quite a few powerful Democrats whose support Obama needs, would apparently welcome a good bashing for Iran, to “benefit” Israel.

  132. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I will say it again: I think the P5+1 will accept Iranian operation of a number of nuclear power plants, with nuclear fuel provided for those plants by Iran itself. And TRR too, possibly.

  133. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 12:25 pm

    Then he ought to take Mr. Khamenei’s offer, oughtn’t he?

    Happiness is for children.

    Real men live on this side of Happiness; having gone through Despair – witnessing Death and Madness.

    The previous President was the man who was most interested in restoring a relationship with US on equitable basis.

    US was not interested.

    Axis Powers, China, and Russia escalated to the strategic Nederland with Iran – in effect forcing Iran to make reach the conclusion that her existence was in danger.

    It is now what it is and no amount sugar-coating can remove the bitterness from a country that twice under Mr. Obama faced war, while at the same time enduring wars against her allies instigated by the Axis Powers – and – in the meantime – her social cohesion under attack by US & EU.

    We can never go back to the situation prevailing before 2007 between Iran and EU, Iran and Saudi Arabia, Iran and Russia, Iran and China, Iran and India.

    That world died when cancer patient could not get drugs in Iran, when half the population of Syria was made into refugees, and when ISIS was constructed in Jordan and sent out to wreck Iraq.

    I believe decades from now, Axis Powers leaders will rue the day when they decided on starting this civilizational and religious war.

    For they left millions of peoples as their enemies – from Hindu Kush to the Mediterranean Sea.

  134. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I see little threat to the territorial integrity of Iran. Name one country hoping to take a piece of Iranian territory.

    You may recall the late Shah had his eyes on Pakistani Baluchistan, if Pakistan fell apart.

  135. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The P5+1 are insisting that Iran limit its nuclear programme. You continue to push for Iran to build nukes. Without limits on Iran’s nuclear programme, miscalculations in Iran itself would be a grave risk. Obviously, in my judgment.

  136. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    Then as I said before:

    Mr. Khamenei has made his offer – why is it not accepted?

    Why ISIS and why Now?

    US is playing a cat & mouse game with ISIS, trying to force it back to the earlier agreement which was to attack Shia in Iraq and not the Axis Powers’ new pet – Kurdish Regional Government.

  137. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 12:39 pm

    So, “The P5+1 are insisting that Iran limit its nuclear programme” – i.e. make it a toy program.

    Iranians have already stated that they will not accept that.

    The current war and confrontation will continue.

  138. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The “pursuit of happiness” is an object of all responsible governments. How one defines being “happy” can be debated.

  139. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You will recall the unhappiness of Saddam Hussein, in being obliged to withdraw from Kuwait without any fig leaf of cover. He preferred to see his own army destroyed.

  140. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    I do not think any Iranian in his sane mind believes such reassurances from you or any one else that lives under the protection of nuclear weapons.

    At any rate, my opinion matters not, you need to convince the Iranian people and leaders that Iran faces no existential threat from 4 nuclear-armed states in her vicinity; and during the time that all of her allies are at war and she herself is enduring an economic siege war aimed at nothing less tan evisceration of the social bonds of her polity.

    When you initiated a war – expecting short victory – and that war endures instead – you have your worked caught out for you to revert back to the status quo ante.

    An impossibility.

  141. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 18, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Iranians and indeed the Shia, Druze, Christians, Alawites are in their own country and territories.

    Axis Powers will have to go to war with them on their home turf.

    You cannot threaten people who have faced war 3 times since 2002 and are fighting – together with their allies – in 4 fronts.

  142. kooshy says:

    Does everyone here notice how propagandist uses double talks to increase/expedite a conflict between two opposing parties? , well a good example is what FYD and his crew try do on this site, their true aim is very much like what Israeli government and its western based lobbies have been doing and have so far been successful to do. In other words they try to tell the Iranian side that you will be attacked crushed, disintegrated etc. and the only way to survive is to get an atomic bomb protection (FYD all along preaching / recommending to Iran centric bloggers here) but in the same time when he is commenting to western centric audiences / readers (likes of Gav. Canning,) his aim is to make believe that the Iran leaders are to get the bomb since they see a have no other way to protect themselves.
    So in retrospect he/ they are telling the macho aggressor/ more powerful party that the Iranians are getting the bomb so be ready go after them before it becomes too late and you be able to do nothing, and in same time goes to the other side and tells them hurry go get the bomb fast, they are coming after you any minute now. You see this is exactly the same line which has been and is in use by Israel and her various security lobbies with regard to Iran policy their main aim is to prevent if even possible, any reaching out between this two opposing sides. How much and how long they can be successful at this I can’t be sure.

    Disclaimer- as most of bloggers on this site by now know, in no way I think an strategic accommodation or a rapprochement between Iran and US plus her European clients is possible in near term, in my opinion a tactical understanding may happen ( as has happened before, on Afghanistan and Iraq), but due to US’s posture and entanglement in Israeli policies a rapprochement or an strategic understanding cannot be reached unless and until the US Israeli policy changes or become acceptable to street Arabs.

  143. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 18, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    You do not seem to have grasped what happened last August – 2013.

    US & EU will attack Iran, that is their plan.

    Their attack is not delayed because of “good behavior” by Iran.

    Significantly, Dr. Einhorn, in his open letter that I posted above, could only state a single benefit for Iran in surrendering to the P5+1 demands for a toy nuclear industry in Iran:

    Economic improvement.

    He does not mention any security benefits to Iran – because there are none and he knows it.

    Now, those economic benefits will evaporate once Iran is destroyed – the way Libya went from a functioning country to the wreck that it is today.

  144. BiBiJon says:

    Don’t miss http://nationalinterest.org/feature/blueprint-save-iraq-disaster-11098?page=show

    Nor this ;www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-18/iran-were-very-helpful-in-getting-maliki-to-stand-down/

  145. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    Big difference, some people here raise the idea that nuclear weapons is the only way for Iran to save itself, Israel on the other hand, say Iran say it to get Iran attacked.

  146. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 18, 2014 at 2:52 pm
    “You do not seem to have grasped w………………….”

    Once again you are avoiding and deceiving by over dramatizing and escaping to Karbala Sahara the issue I raised which was, if you think/see/agree that your comments and behavior on this blog is similar to that of Israeli propagandist shops likes or MEMRI, and if you don’t think so, than you need to explain to all of us here, why, where and what are the difference with what you recommend as an strategic policy for Iran, and what propaganda organizations like MEMRI are tasked to spread, and in case you agree that your recommendations are similar to what is propagandized by Israel disinformation services, why you think such ideas can and will be beneficial to Iran’s strategic regional standing?

    Please don’t try to avoid by dramatizing and escaping to Karbala Sahara again, otherwise it’s not worth the time.

  147. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 18, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    I do not owe any explanation to or any one else on this forum for my views.

    If you do not like them, do not read them.

  148. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    August 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    Nuclear weapons have kept the peace in Europe, on the Korean Peninsula and in the Sub-continent.

    God willing, they would do so for the Middle East.

    At least some Americans are willing to admit as much:

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/137731/kenneth-n-waltz/why-iran-should-get-the-bomb

  149. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    “Big difference, some people here raise the idea that nuclear weapons is the only way for Iran to save itself, Israel on the other hand, say Iran (is getting it so) say it to get Iran attacked.”

    So by your own writing you can’t see that the recommendation from the first group(FYI, need to have a bomb) matches to the end goal of the second group propaganda (Israel/Iran’s enemies) which thinks Iran can get ( be justified) attacked only if (international community) is sure she has a policy of getting / making a bomb, do you see it now ? There is no difference one is the propaganda arm of the other.

  150. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 18, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    “I do not owe any explanation to or any one else on this forum for my views.”

    “If you do not like them, do not read them.”

    No you don’t have to, but in my opinion you don’t even have one, I usually don’t read your linked or referenced comments, since I know your point of view, but like I wrote before whenever you go off line, and spread Iran related unchecked/referenced false as facts, I will try my best to explain to others as much as I can, or when you pull an opinion of yours which I don’t think is correct I will try to rebut. That is the least I can do. This will continue and will happen unless I don’t see it and pass by me.

  151. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 18, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    That is fine & acceptable that you do not read my comments.

    But you are missing a lot.

  152. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 18, 2014 at 5:38 pm

    “But you are missing a lot.’

    Thanks, but no thanks for thinking of me, never less like I said, from now on make sure to use a disclaimer like “in my opinion, view, etc.” or be prepared to back it up with a referenced fact even if sent to you from MEMRI,or Manosh Joon.

  153. BiBiJon says:

    On the horn of the meaning of Einhorn’s letter
    ========================================

    After much head scratching I think the letter was misaddressed. It opens with “Dear Iranian negotiators.” But, the text clearly is intended for American, and world public opinion, trying to show ‘reasonableness.’

    And, on the face of it, it is reasonableness galore. It is the politest set of insults. Einhorn, in the nicest way possible, says we don’t, and won’t trust you for 15 years. Why, because 2007 NIE said you worked on weapons up until 2003. That Iran’s highest authorities say that is not true, or that el-Baradie says he hasn’t seen a shred of evidence to that effect is somehow not enough for Mr Einhorn today, but for some inexplicable reason it will be enough in 15 years. That Iran cannot be trusted to abide by an international treaty, NPT, will not effect how much trust it shall be showered with during the 15 years of a bilateral agreement.

    Don’t miss http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-17/iran-lures-investors-seeing-nuclear-deal-ending-sanctions.html

  154. Jay says:

    In my view Iranians are no longer surprised at EU disregarding her own court system, or Mr. Einhorn and his disdainful remarks, or the West’s attempt at deconstructing Iran’s independence, or …

    Iranians have learned that any agreement, contract, understanding with the West is not worth the paper it is written on. That they must protect Iran’s national interest by closing doors of coercion.

    I do not think that, as a whole, the Iranian political apparatus is fooled by the feints of the West. There is robust debate and much discussion, but it is not about the good will of the West – it is about the tactical response of Iran.

    Had Iran had a nuclear device already, the dynamics would have been different and we would not be where we are today. But Iran does not.

    Should Iran proceed along the path of NW production, she would provide the excuse sought for by the West.

    As long as energy flows exists and flows from Iran’s neighborhood, Iran has plenty of tools, and can develop plenty more to close doors of coercion.

    Science, development and technological progress is the path to independence for Iran – not a deal with the West but perhaps a tactical pause, and not NWs.

  155. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    August 18, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    Again, what is Iran going to do if she is attacked by Pakistan at the instigation of Axis Powers or Saudi Arabia; bomb Al Aqaqia?

    I think not.

    And then there is an assumption that Iranians have the decades worth of time to enhance their capabilities – I do not believe that they do – not after the seminal revelation of US aims against Iran back in August 2013.

  156. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 18, 2014 at 7:34 pm
    Jay says:

    August 18, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    “Again, what is Iran going do if she is attacked by Pakistan at the instigation of Axis Powers or Saudi Arabia; bomb Al Aqaqia?”

    Again deceptive, and a false analogy,comparison

    As said before if Pakistan falls to an uncontrolled jahadi extremist hand no nuclear bomb can and will stop them Attacking Iran, KSA , India,US and others including your real country

    Case and point Syrian IS jahadies chemical attacking Syrian government forces while Syria still possessed chemical weapons, or 911 attack on US with all nukes anyone can ever have. You also should and may want to notice Al Q’s kamikaze suicider’ first attacking priority wasn’t Iran but the further distanced and more difficult to reach US.

    Now if the Pakistan government remains on western leash like she had been there is no strategic gain or reason for Pakistan to attack Iran considering Pakistan joint eastern neighbors.

    So as your usual, another false analogy with dramatized exaggeration to make belief your end goal.

    Can you show a case that a kamikaze suicidal group stopped because of your big gun, if they would have than they can’t be suicidal like what MEMRI wants the western public believe of The government of Iran.

  157. BiBiJon says:

    kooshy says:
    August 18, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    Yes, and fyi has suddenly got it in for Pakistan, which again is in perfect harmony with disinformation campaigns waged by the usual divide-and-conquerors.

    One might ask what prompts him to spread paranoia about Pakistan suddenly? Could the Saudi darling, Nawaz Sharif, be getting stronger by the day? No, of course not, the very opposite, as usual:

    http://online.wsj.com/articles/india-cancels-planned-talks-with-pakistan-1408377467
    and ;www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/imran-khan-supporters-quit-pakistan-parliament

    Further to your very good set of examples, Russia’s nukes were useless against fomenting color revolutions, Saakashvili sending troops against Russian forces, and Nuland’s cookie revolution, sanctions, and the rest of it. In half agreement with Jay, I think if Iran had nukes the rhetoric would be different, but not the dynamics. US would continue to loath a regional, independent power, and do anything and everything to undermine it. Only, they would not blather on about all options are on the table.

  158. kooshy says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 18, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Yes, I agree, persuasion of, and sticking to and for the nuclear issue by fyi and Israeli firsters is to make a permanent rift and keep it open for as long as they can, so there is no possibility of strategic recognition of a powerful independent Iran by the west.

    I think what SL said a few weeks ago is right and Iran should peacefully continue to confront this issue on three points. Our treaty legal rights, No need / strategic gains for us building a N. bomb, we will continue to pursue our international and regional interests regardless of outside the region powers.

  159. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    August 18, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    We could engage in a campaign of lobbing hypotheticals at each other and illicit what if answers, only to find it a useless intellectual self-gratification.

    There are many arguments for and against the effectiveness of nuclear weapons in the situation Iran is in. However, one thing is for certain. At this juncture, an attempt by Iran to proceed to nuclear weapons will lead to disaster for Iran. It will provide the very excuse that Iran hawks have been looking for. It is not a tactic, a strategy, a solution.

    What then should be done? Develop a deterrence based on economic devastation, I say.

  160. Pouya says:

    James Canny

    I have to respectfully point out that there is no Palestinian territory. Israel has successfullly annexed the whole thing. There is practically nothing left of the West Bank except some small unclaves and townships. The Gaza strip is a prison, and it the only place that Palestine will have something left. Also, one cannot escape the fact that much of the West Bank could care less what happened to their own kind in the gaza strip as long as they could go on and buy their daily bread. I am certaninly not going to be more palestinian than palestinians.

    FYI and James

    Obama lifted the ban to buy Boeing parts a month ago. Iran rejected purchasing because it would damage the domestic industry that supports Iran’s aging American planes.

  161. M. Ali says:

    Kooshy, FYD and his sidekick don’t even make sense in their own logic. From what they claim, Muslims have it bad in Iran. They’d have thousands of years of being useless, while the West is the Best. Muslims are safer in their property, dignity, and womb in the west, and have the shittiest, most idiotic lives in Iran, being ruled by muleteers (is this their new buzzword?) and cargo cultists.

    So why EXACTLY do they want such an evil monstrousity of awfulness to have nukes?

  162. kooshy says:

    “Nuclear weapons have kept the peace in Europe”

    Really, good to know, but wait a minute, did you mention “nukes kept the peace in Europe”
    If so, seems like once again, you are way wrong, that, or your geography like your history is liquid and can be formed and formulated at will, as need and as we go along. You have enough knowledge to know but not enough shame.

    BiBiJon says:
    August 18, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Further to your very good set of examples, Russia’s nukes were useless against fomenting color revolutions, Saakashvili sending troops against Russian forces, and Nuland’s cookie revolution, sanctions, and the rest of it.

  163. Karl.. says:

    kooshy
    August 18, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    No it has nothing to do with each other, you think people that want Iran to get nukes so it can create a deterrence, actually want Iran to get attacked? No obviously not.

    kooshy
    August 19, 2014 at 3:10 am
    Nukes is for deterrence: so you wont get attacked, it has nothing to do with stopping a coup in your neighbourhood. Nothing at all.

  164. Karl.. says:

    Actually I would say people that back the talks between US/Iran is more closer to the israeli position, that is – making Iran weaker according to what Israel wants.

  165. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 3:56 am

    Sorry, nope, you are wrong, or didn’t get it, not to worry just need to read what I and others wrote once more. Let me know if you still can’t get it.

  166. yk says:

    Kooshy

    Please do not waste your time on a closet zionist, and if you want a prove of what I mean just touch on the subject of Israel and see him go haywire. Nothing you write back with voluminous hard fact will ever have meaning with such character, as long as it affect the illusion of Israel invincibility. So much for invincibility when it couldn’t even vanquished such crudely equipped resistance groups in a tiny strip such as Gaza.

  167. BiBiJon says:

    Don’t miss http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/us/billionaire-named-in-suit-against-anti-iran-group.html?_r=0

    NY Times is really pi$$ed that while its employees get to go to jail for not revealing who might have leaked government secrets to them, UANI gets government protection for not having to reveal government secrets it somehow possesses, and thereby avoid explaining who gave them this information.

    The other twist in the story is that private donors to UANI are personally profiting from UANI’s activities. The plaintiff is claiming that his shipping company’s reputation is being ruined so that a competitor, a Greek-Israeli’s shipping company thrives, and that there are family connections between the Greek-Israeli and the big private donors to UANI.

    Of course, if true, it establishes a private profiteering pattern. E.g. who knows what investments who has in some Chinese company which is going to back fill a vacated Iranian market, when an European or American company gets harassed by UANI. And if you were a hedge fund manager would you not call UANI and ask for some tips and a heads up in lieu of hansom returns on some investment who knows who has with that hedge fund.

    All this is bad enough, but why would the US Justice department involve itself in trying to mediate and settle the case out of court? Who in the government is also profiting? OR, is it purely protection of government secrets?

  168. Karl.. says:

    kooshy
    August 19, 2014 at 4:23 am

    You mean the (israeli) sanctions, talks, pressure is going to get Iran stronger?

    Have the israeli/palestine 30-year old talks made palestinians any stronger?

  169. nico says:

    kooshy says:
    August 19, 2014 at 4:23 am

    “Sorry, nope, you are wrong, or didn’t get it, not to worry just need to read what I and others wrote once more. Let me know if you still can’t get it.”

    One needs to remain logically and intellectually honest.
    Nobody said nukes would protect Iran against sedition plots or proxy war.
    However it is much clear that nukes for disusasion prupose has proved effecicient to avert direct military confrontation.
    Would the Iran-Irak war, US threat against Syria, or the Lybian direct miltary intervention have occured if those countries have had nukes at that time ?
    I think not.

    That being said it is by no mean proof of Iran looking for nukes or that Iran has no other mean for detterence purpose. And Iran stated policies in that matter is respectable.

  170. Jay says:

    I miss Scott Lucas’ analysis of events in Ferguson! Arresting journalists, roughing up and gassing citizens…

    Just a bit of humor to get your day started!

  171. Jay says:

    And, one more thing…

    Ferguson would have been richer and quieter had it not trebled the demonstrations and just accepted the police brutality!

  172. Nasser says:

    Stratfor’s assessment of Europe:

    “They remind us that the most dangerous source of social unrest is not the young and unemployed but rather middle-aged men and women who have suffered unemployment and lost their investments. They live in a world of shattered hopes, convinced that others engineered their misfortune. The young throw rocks and then go home. The middle-aged and middle class, having lost their dreams with no hope of recovery, are at the heart of fascism and are the real threat posed by the new European reality.”

    http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/europes-malaise-new-normal#axzz3ApuhLQYO

  173. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 19, 2014 at 9:02 am

    What can I say, I hope they suffer even more.

    In Spain and in Italy you have men & women in their 30s moving back in and living with their retired parents – sometimes with their children.

  174. kooshy says:

    yk says:
    August 19, 2014 at 9:46 am

    While back, during his “green period” (that or he just was period), when he had his very informed Persian girlfriend, he wasn’t hiding his love for Zionisem and Israel.
    Back in architecture school they use to tell us you out to take the devil out of the details, sometimes we just need to unwrap these folks out of the details they wrap themselves in, just that.

  175. fyi says:

    yk says:

    August 19, 2014 at 9:46 am

    2000 people were fed into the furnace of war to achieve this.

  176. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    Some other questions for you (beside the ones at August 19, 2014 at 6:54 am), why do west (israel) want to talk about Iran’s missiles? Is it because they want to make Iran stronger?

    Why are (israel) worried about Iran’ getting nukes at all?

    Do U.S. want to give up its nukes? If no, why?

  177. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    Obama personally favours getting rid of all nukes.

  178. James Canning says:

    yk,

    Are you referring to Jay?

  179. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    In my view, the presence of illegal Jewish settlers does not change the borders of Palestine. And repressive Israeli policies do not mean Palestine does not exist.

  180. James Canning says:

    Pouya,

    Boeing has quietly provided spare parts for aging Boeing airplanes operated by Iran, for years now. Primarily for engine repairs done in Europe.

  181. James Canning says:

    fyi.

    After the Aug. 21 CW event a year ago in Sria, Obama felt he needed to hit Syria with a few hundred cruise missiles, lest Iran think the US was not serious about making sure Iran did not build nukes. Syria agreed to get rid of its CW and Obama saw that he did not need to attack Syria, to maintain credibility re: Iran.

  182. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think Einhorn is well aware of the vast amount of soft power Iran will obtain if it gets rid of sanctions. Perhaps I should say, that Iran will be able to obtain.

  183. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You have called for the US to help Iraq defeat Isis. Is this part of the US plan to “attack the Shia”, that you mention?

  184. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Iran in effect invited the “economic siege war” you claim the EU and the US are waging against Iran. But the idea is to avoid war.

  185. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    What “quick victory” do you claim the US and EU expected? I doubt very much a “quick victory” was expected. And what is “victory” for that matter. Many ardent “supporters” of Israel welcome a permanent sanctions regime against Iran, and thus they prefer not to see the “victory” you claim the US and EU seek.

  186. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 11:08 am
    Karl do you still have your Iranian girlfriend, if so like back in green days, you can ask her, she did have all the answers back then.

    But I can guarantee that the made up Zionist state with less historic background and existence than that of KSA and Jordan is not a major issue for Iran’s regional strategy, no matter how much that dog barks, noises she makes are of her incompetence and weakness in hope for existence as an state. Iranian missiles with or without wouldn’t solver that problem of hers problem, that I assure you.

    Just take your Zionist eye glasses off and look at the map, at the end you may get it.

  187. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    In Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria and against Iran Axis Powers expected a quick victory.

    Just like the late Saddam Hussein against Iran.

    That did not materialize and now they are where they are; waging a generational war against any and all.

    In regards to ISIS, the perception among many in Iran is that it was setup by Axis Powers and their local henchmen in Jordan and was sent out to attack and damage the Shia Crescent.

    But they lost the control of ISIS and now they have to fight it – their own creation.

    Now they are using pin prick aerial attacks to nudge ISIS south against the Shia – that is all.

    For if US, UK, France and others were serious about fighting ISIS there would have been already thousands of air sorties out of the 2 airbases in Southern Turkey against ISIS.

    Axis Powers also initiated this new Cold War against Russia – another generational undertaking without a doubt while their own polities are continuing to groan under increased poverty and dysfunction.

    If, in fact, Mr. Obama thought that he would be able to go home after lobbing a few missile at the targets in the Syrian Arab Republic last August, then he was dangerously delusional. It would have been another quagmire like Iraq.

    The man is obviously very poorly advised or else he selects the advice that is the worst for US and possibly the best for Israel.

    He cannot even control his own government; Israel just help herself to US weapons due to the friends that she has in all levels of US government as well as outside of it.

  188. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    Didnt know I had a girlfriend from Iran.
    What I do know is that you ignored all my questions, please answer them. In fact I will add one more.
    Why do states want nuclear weapons?

  189. Nasser says:

    So for all of Mr. Karl’s passionate attempts to highlight the crimes of Israel and that prostitute state called Egypt he get labelled a “closet Zionist”!

  190. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    If “victory” in Libya meant “protecting” the insurgents from Gaddafi, was in accomplished? Or was “victory” the overthrow of Gaddafi? That was accomplished.

    However, the outcome in Libya is still unknown. I feared years of chaos, instability etc etc etc.

  191. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The notion as Isis as a creature intentionally created by the US is a bit stretched.

    You will recall I thought the US should pull all troops out of Iraq in 2006-07.

  192. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The western military intervention in Libya did a great deal to facilitate the eruption of the vicious civil war in Syria. As you are well aware.

  193. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 19, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    Well US is not paying any attention to the likes us; just like the Mad-Hatter..

  194. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    It is not clear at this time, that a new Cold War has begun. Germany has offered a reasonable plan for resolving the Ukraine problem.

  195. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Robert Gates and General Petraeus convinced GW Bush that he should reject the advice of the Iraq Study Group, to make deals with Iran and Syria and pull all US troops out of Iraq asap (in 2006-07). I remain convinced Petraeus and Gates were wrong, and I see the catastrophe in Syria as an outgrowth of GW Bush’s blunder in rejecting the advice of the Iraq Study Group.

  196. Karl.. says:

    Nasser
    August 19, 2014 at 12:48 pm

    Thank you for your comment, yes “closet zionist” was a new one for me.

  197. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 19, 2014 at 1:22 pm

    For the catastrophe in Syria, Mr. Obama bears direct responsibility.

    I will continue praying for the expansion and intensification of NATO – Russia Cold War as well as the disintegration of the European Union.

    Elahi Amin.

  198. fyi says:

    All:

    Arabs and Iran:

    http://www.fardanews.com/fa/news/359335/رافضیِ-مجوسیِ-صفویِ-شیعیِ-ایرانی-کیست

    Note the statistics – 500,000 people a year convert to Christianity in China each year.

  199. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Karl your question is pointed pre-determined therefore wrong, the right way to ask this question is” why some states (likes of Israel and south Africa) want nuclear weapon”

    That is simple to answer, because in their region, like baby killer Israel or the apartheid south African state they are insecure and politically weak states in their region, so if you are asking this to relate and make a point to Iran’ need for nukes, I can assure you Iran is not insecure as is been the evidence for last 35 years and more importantly she is not politically a weak state in her region. So she has made a determination that strategically she doesn’t need to have the nuclear weapon for her security, but as has been demonstrated if it comes to a point that she does find a need, we both know she can make some.

    Sorry for the green investment didn’t really work out well, did it?

  200. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    You appeared to challenge my statement that Saddam Hussein destroyed most of Iraq’s WMD in 1991, after the Gulf War. Have you dropped that challenge?

  201. Nasser says:

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/nuclear-arms-control-dead-11097

    Without question, Westerns states will find themselves with a whole lot more nuclear weapons at them.

  202. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    South Africa was pursuing nukes in order to have a deterrent if certain African countries tried to initiate a vicious civil war in SA.

  203. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    Gaddafi said it was fashionable in certain circles in the 1970s to have a nuclear weapons programme, and that is why he toyed with one.

  204. James Canning says:

    Nasser,

    You appear unaware that China worries about North Korea’s nukes.

  205. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I agree Obama blundered by not doing what he could to prevent the eruption of the vicious civil war in Syria. But, Iran’s ill-advised expansion of its nuclear programme contributed to the making of that mistake by Obama.

  206. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    Insecure?
    Great then show sources that this is the reason why South Africa and Israel got nuclear weapons, and not, that deterrence was the factor like any other nuclear weapons state.

  207. Nasser says:

    Karl,

    Where in this forum did you ever mention having an Iranian girlfriend that strongly sympathized with the Green movement?! Because I can’t find any such posts from you myself.

    Or is it like with the accusation of being a “closet Zionist” that they are just making shit up for their smear campaign?

  208. Nasser says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    I suppose the mighty United States, the regional hegemon India, the island nation of Britain, and NATO member France also were motivated by their immense sense of insecurity. One wonders what insecurity Britain or France possibly feels that they have decided not to relinquish or even seriously lessen their arsenal.

    They say: “God didn’t make men equal, Samuel Colt did.” And when it comes to nations it should read: “God didn’t make nations equal, nuclear weapons did.”

  209. Karl.. says:

    Nasser
    August 19, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Yes you are correct, I have not mentioned any girlfriend from Iran. Typical smear tactic.

    August 19, 2014 at 2:36 pm
    Yep
    Iran won’t accept ‘nuclear apartheid’ – Rouhani
    http://rt.com/news/158208-iran-nuclear-talks-rouhani/

  210. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm
    kooshy

    “Insecure?

    Great then show sources that this is the reason why South Africa and Israel got nuclear weapons”,

    Yes insecure, Body, are you drunk? You asked “for my opinion, why I think so and so?, the source is me, as I had stated you can take it or leave it, see even Gav is saying the same thing “South Africa was pursuing nukes in order to have a deterrent if certain African countries tried to initiate”’ meaning if you are politically insecure (lack of security) and unaccepted in your neighborhood (fearing your neighbors come and take their land back) then you go and find yourself a deterrence measure, likes of nukes, missiles or the kind and measure you think is sufficient for your security.

    Let me know if Karlfahm shood

  211. kooshy says:

    Nasser says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    “I suppose the mighty United States, the regional hegemon India, the island nation of Britain, and NATO member France also were motivated by their immense sense of insecurity.”

    I suppose you could be right, only if you just ignore there exist a cold war for more than 40 years. You guys have great analogy like your mentor.

  212. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    I think the South African nuclear programme was terminated because its utility was highly questionable. I;; check for a source.

    Israel has no need of nukes and should get rid of them.

  213. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    And what are your opinion based on if not sources, facts?

    Yes James Canning is right since he points out the deterrence is the reason why states want nukes.

    Question is then, why does the nuclear weapons states, dont disarm today? Or will they then destroy its own deterrence? The answer is yes. This is also the reason why Iran might need nuclear weapons in the future.

    Using your logic, if US, France, UK, China etc are “inscure” states, we can all agree that Iran is too, couldnt we?

  214. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    Western countries and the Soviet Union pressured South Africa not to build nukes. As you may know.

  215. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    South Africa wanted to ensure Cuba did not build an African army in Angola, that would be used to attack SA. SA did not need nukes to accomplish this objective.

  216. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 19, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    nah, they did not want Black Africans to have access to nuclear weapons.

    They might have imagined the late Idi Amin with a number of nuclear weapons.

  217. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    And what are your opinion based on if not sources, facts?

    “Historic Geography” my father use to say, mother of all we know is geography, which makes the demography possible, and is only then when you can have economy, security and history.

    All these elements are together for a nation state of Iran (like France, when invaded during WWII) and her influenced historic neighboring states (greater Iran). Is only combination of these elements I mentioned that make up and has made the Iran’ security in her existence even with invasion of Greeks , Arabs and Turks and Mongols , how many nation states you can name that have survived at least 3 major foreign invasion and occupations. Only one and that’s Iran. Is only in that context that one laughs when you compare Israel with Iran.

  218. nico says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    kooshy says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    Iran should feel insecure with the western military presence in the region and the trackrecord of the last decades.
    Iran needs deterrence.
    And the only reason Iran feel secure is that it already has deterrent means.
    After few thinking following BiB hint regarding the topic, it is clear from open dourcrs that such deterrence is related to oil supplies and ability to block the straight of Hormuz, to detsroy oil wells in the region as well as wreaking sectarian havoc through influence in many regional countries and destroying US military bades.
    That being said that would be desastrous outcome with Iran being wipped off and all world countries and economies suffering backlash with associated consequences of social destruction and collapse.
    Just like countries nuking each other. But worse as it would impact all world countries.

    At the end of the day such detterence only obtains because of Iran strategic position in the oil rich region.
    Other countries might not be in the same position and thus might feel the need to get nukes to achieve a similar level of detterence.

    Canning or Hack would say that Iran has no chance or ability to block the flow of oil…
    Well that is there position.
    If thry think so, good for them.

    I guess it would depend on the ability of each protagonist to draw decisive blow the doonest in such case.
    What would happen if Iran close the straight and Tehran is nuked the next day ?
    Is Iran able to strike a decisive and irrecoverable blow in 2 hours time with their conventional arsenal ?
    That is the some total of the question.

    For that, Iran would need tremendous amounts of capable midrange missiles that could be launched all at once.

    Maybe someone here could provide an educated opinion on this topic ?

  219. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    So you are saying that Iran is secure but a military superpower like US (or any other nuclear weapons state) are not and thus need nuclear weapons? You dont believe that yourself.

  220. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    “Iran won’t accept ‘nuclear apartheid’ – Rouhani”

    Karly you need to explain what this headline from RT you posted has to do with your support for Iran needing a nuclear bomb. Did Ruhani say we don’t accept “Nuclear Bomb apartheid” or since you couldn’t find any support for your assertion/suggestion you just grabed the best you could find on the net?. This is because what you posted as a support for your ideas, is like the relation Iranians say exist between “Gooz and Shagiegh” – have fyd translate this for you, since he is well versed in these kind of relationship.

  221. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 19, 2014 at 3:57 pm

    Who said and why do you need or should compare Iran’s security with that of US, Us as a hegemon state needs a lot more security than Iran as a regional state needs, you have no idea what you are talking about.

  222. Karl.. says:

    kooshy
    August 19, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    I pointed out the apartheid some people like yourself want to uphold and was a response to Nasser’s good “quote” about human being equals.

    August 19, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    You are saying that US face more threats than Iran does? Not even you believe in that.

  223. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think South Arica concluded the merits of trying to possess nukes were lacking, given the very strong opposition of the West and the Soviet Union.

    It goes without saying that possession of nukes by any African country would not have been a good thing.

  224. Nasser says:

    Karl,

    Please friend, you are wasting your time.

    Reading the man’s comments it becomes clear that either this eighty year old fossil is brain dead and incapable of logic, or has a perverted sense of morality that finds nuclear weapons possession to be so objectionable that he is willing to tell whatever lies necessary to provide arguments for his real agenda.

  225. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I could see in the early 1970s that “white” rule in South Africa was not likely to survive until the end of the century. Adverse demographics.

  226. Karl.. says:

    Nasser

    Fully agree, I wont engage more in that dicussion. I guess the anti-nuclear weapon hysteria have put an impact on some people.

  227. kooshy says:

    nico says:
    August 19, 2014 at 3:47 pm

    “At the end of the day such detterence only obtains because of Iran strategic position in the oil rich region.
    Other countries might not be in the same position and thus might feel the need to get nukes to achieve a similar level of detterence.’

    Yes these are related to or same as what I mentioned that as combination and collectively make the security of Iran as a nation state
    Which are Geography> demography> economy,> security > endurance,culture = History = a nation state.
    Sometime back in UT it was offered as “Geographical History of Iran” in history department.

  228. BiBiJon says:

    “perverted sense of morality that finds nuclear weapons possession to be so objectionable”
    ================================================

    Interesting definition of “perverted sense of morality.” No worries, the burden of eternal victimhood will produce many other new definitions of what is and isn’t “perverted” out of its poop shoot, right up which all that chosenness and victimhood will disappear.

    In the real world we have real things, like this:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/20/bradford-synagogue-saved-muslims-jews

  229. kooshy says:

    This idiot guys think I am against Iran having a nuclear bomb is because
    of my “sense of morality”. Not at all you are totally out of it as a matter of fact I do believe, Iran should and already has a Japan like nuclear deterrence. Is just that I believe having a tested tactical nuclear bomb not only doesn’t add to Iran security it actually will decrease Iran’s security, specially with her immediate neighbors, this is because almost all Iran neighbors are non-nation state Taliban like sectarian religious entities, that if become unstable no
    nuclear bomb will deter them off, therefore no
    need to scare them with more power and widen the rift and add tools to Iran’s real enemies.

    Than it comes to, if Iran can deter US with a nuclear bomb, let’s imagine in case of an attack what Iran is going to do or hit with her nuclear bombs, to stop or retaliate against US and her interests, to attack New York or DC or Madeina and Mecca with her nuclear bombs?, or the Persian gulf oil Installations that supports western economy?, as anyone with minimum intelligence can see the first four cities are unthinkable to hit, and the last option is so reachable that you don’t need a nuclear bomb to close it down, so why should Iran pay an expensive price for having an unusable device, if it is for the pride
    reasons which sometimes is mentioned, great that Iran already has proved she has the know how and is fully capable of doing in to the last screw on the device.

  230. Smith says:

    Karl and Nasser,

    Please keep in mind that muleteers of cargo cult are incapable of rational thought processes to understand your views and questions, let alone the ability of contemplating the answers. They can only do what the individuals of cargo cult have done for ages; use ad hominem profane accusations in the hope that you become “discredited” in the eyes of other cargo cult members and therefore none among the cargo cult ever wakes up by your call to reason. Cargo cult has a long history in human societies and thoughtful people like yourselves have always been accused of sorcery, black magic, blood drinking, belonging to a hated sect etc etc.

    Do not take them seriously. For instance you would never take seriously the views of a muleteer on organic chemistry or neurophysiology. It is the same here. They are just following the cult. They have to. Without the cult, they are nothing. They become useless. Cult is the only thing which gives a semblance of meaning in their pathetic lives.

  231. Smith says:

    It is good that finally some in Iran have started to suspect that it is the cargo cult machination deep in Iran’s culture that is causing Iran to remain weak. If this understanding progresses and matures enough, then Iran can finally become a real world powerhouse. Though it will take a very long time, I guess, seeing the opposition put up by the corrupt, rentier cargo cult: http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13930528000729

    …..

    رئیس سازمان بسیج اساتید در ادامه سخنان خود با اشاره به نسبت بین فرهنگ و اقتصاد گفت: ما اگر بتوانیم الگوی پیشرفتمان را شکل دهیم می‌توانیم به سمت تمدن نوین اسلامی پیش برویم که در این بین موضوع نسبت بین فرهنگ و اقتصاد مطرح است که آیا این نسبت متقابل است یا مانند آنچه که غربی‌ها می‌گویند فرهنگ برآمده از اقتصاد است.

    وی افزود: پایه‌های پیشرفت، علم، اقتصاد و فرهنگ است بر همین اساس سازمان بسیج اصناف نیز موضوع اجلاس سراسری خود را که از سوم تا پنجم در مشهد مقدس برگزار می‌شود «نسبت اقتصاد و فرهنگ در تمدن نوین اسلامی گذاشته است».

    این استاد دانشگاه در ادامه تصریح کرد:‌اگر ما معتقدیم فرهنگ مانند هوایی است که در آن استشمام می‌کنیم و اگر معتقدیم هر فعالیتی در بستر فرهنگ شکل می‌گیرد و اگر ثابت شده است که هر اقدامی تأثیر فرهنگی دارد پس لاجرم ثابت خواهد شد که این فرهنگ است که در اولویت است و باید بستر دیگر اقدامات باشد.
    …..

  232. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    August 19, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    It is really funny that the article does not mention the shredding of ABM treaty by US. The hubris and the arrogance have reached a new high, even among the so called academics. That they have started to believe that US can unilaterally shred and destroy international law, agreements and guarantees but not anyone else. Even God does not propose such powers for Himself, as He repeatedly mentions that He will remain true to his promises. So what Americans have started to think of themselves? that they are god of God?

  233. Smith says:

    Chickens are coming home to roost: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28862268

    The terror they had given birth to for the purpose of swallowing the Shias, is now grown up and turning on his creators.

  234. Jay says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 19, 2014 at 5:32 pm
    kooshy says:
    August 19, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    It is not the sense of morality that drives rational thinking, rather it is rational thinking that pushes toward moral alternatives.

    The idiosyncratic and context-free debate regarding nuclear weapons is missing the rational element. It is not surprising that those who accuse others of being incapable of rational thought are the same that engage in name calling, unsubstantiated claims, and exaggerations.

    The debate as to the deterrent value of nuclear weapons is theoretical. The evidence supporting this hypothesis is the cold war, and the absence of direct “hot” exchange, between the former Soviet Union and The US. As the theory goes, states with nuclear weapons symmetry tend to avoid violent and direct engagement, although these same states tend to engage in riskier behavior. This latter, apparently paradoxical, behavior stems from the perception of a “higher” threshold for “hot” engagement by both sides.

    There is no support, at the present, for the hypothesis that such deterrent would hold for asymmetric nuclear states. Note that Pakistan, a nuclear weapon state, is regularly bombed by American drones with impunity. Therefore, possession of nuclear weapons, in and of itself, is not sufficient for protecting as state against violence – this goes to the “higher” threshold paradox.

    The debate is not an abstract question of “whether or not it would have been better for Iran to have been a nuclear weapon state”. The question at hand is, whether it makes sense for Iran to race to become a serious nuclear weapons state in order for her to protect herself. The answer to this question, notwithstanding the moral argument, must take into account multiple parameters – many of which have ambiguous answers at first.

    Rational argument is not about scoring points – it is about making sense! Let’s try to make some sense folks.

  235. Smith says:

    Another bank pays 300 million dollars in fines to US for having dealt with Iran in the past: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/08/19/standard-chartered-money-laundering-penalty/14287799/

    So much so for sanctions “relief”.

  236. Smith says:

    Pervez Musharraf admits permitting ‘a few’ US drone strikes in Pakistan: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/12/musharraf-admits-permitting-drone-strikes

    One aspect of muleteer behavior is the disregard for evidence proving them wrong. But then they are muleteers.

  237. Smith says:

    fyi says:
    August 19, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Let’s hope they go to each others throats and leave Muslims for atleast awhile. We need a break.

  238. Nasser says:

    Dr. Friedman on American exceptionalism

    http://www.stratfor.com/video/conversation-necessity-working-middle-eastern-autocrats#axzz3ApuhLQYO

    Note: Please don’t be put off by the title. Dr. Friedman makes a lot of excellent points.

  239. Nasser says:

    Smith says:
    August 19, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Amen.

  240. Nasser says:

    Smith says: August 19, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    I swear sometimes their lies and selective half truths borders on the comical.

    Question: What do you think would happen to Iran if Osama Bin Laden was found living in an Iranian military compound?

    I remember Pakistani journalist Zaid Hamid saying that the Pakistani state needs to make clear that if its nuclear assets are attacked upon by NATO states then they would retaliate by striking Tel Aviv. And soon after all those silly Tom Clancyesque bs media stories about Navy Seals teams seizing Pakistani nuclear weapons stopped.

  241. Nasser says:

    fyi,

    An excerpt from this article fully confirming your views regarding recent US actions against ISIS

    “IS clearly got the US message: the Kurdistan Region is a US red line that IS cannot cross. Therefore, immediately after the US Air Force strikes, IS headed toward the Iranian border and took over the town of Jalawla, 115 kilometers (roughly 71 miles) northeast of Baghdad, moving toward Khanaqin, which is only 20 kilometers (roughly 12 miles) from the Iranian border.”

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/maliki-state-of-law-coalition-collapse-new-prime-minister.html

  242. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    August 19, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    Such an excuse would have united the world against Iran under American flag. UN General Assembly and Security council would have endorsed and authorized respectively the most severe penalties. Iran would have been bombed for 40 days and night or even longer. All industries, energy choke points and infrastructure destroyed. As they did with Serbia. They probably would not even have needed a ground invasion to get Iran as Iranians as a nation are more united and sane in addition to having a better command and control. Rather Iranians would have surrendered, with loss of territories such as Khuzestan, Baluchistan and almost all the islands. Unconditional surrender.

    And Iran could not have done anything. Iranian navy is not a blue water navy and is incapable of putting up any serious resistance. Iranian air force whose backbone is still 60’s era F-4 fighters (a failed aircraft by design) and and a handful of 70’s era F-14 (another failed fighter forced upon Iran by US) will not be capable of bombing Israel let alone Europe or US. Iranian army still uses the war damaged Chieftain and M60’s tanks. The air defense is a ragtag of “upgraded” Western 1960’s and Russian 1970’s toys. The only thing Iran has, is the limited range conventional ballistic missiles whose cost per tonne of ordinance deliver is so high that not even US can afford to disband its air force and rely on a conventional missiles force. Typical load for such missiles being a tonne, it would take one million (1 Megaton-the energy required to wipe off a medium sized city) of such missiles to make a battle impact which a single typical nuke tipped missile can. And Iran does not have tactical nukes to wipe off the enemy’s military formations.

    That is why the talk of these new centrifuges that Iran is currently working on with 25+ SWU capacity as Salehi had said, is so important. Iran under no circumstances should make any deal that stops or even slows the centrifuge technology development. With a cascade of 50+ SWU centrifuges, Iran would be able to set up a nuke factory in a barn and produce an arsenal for break out. NPT is so 60’ish. It is time to bury it once and for all and move towards a peaceful future without the continuous threats of violence against Iran.

  243. kooshy says:

    Jay says:
    August 19, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    “The debate is not an abstract question of “whether or not it would have been better for Iran to have been a nuclear weapon state”. The question at hand is, whether it makes sense for Iran to race to become a serious nuclear weapons state in order for her to protect herself.’

    Thank you Jay, yes I agree, as I said a country’s deter and defense needs is/are continually measured and determined with the kind and whom her security is being threaten, I exactly laid out and argued within her geographic parameters since for foreseeable future nuclear bombs can’t be used, it will not add to Iran’s overall security, but rather decrease her existing security balance and deterrence measures.

    We can’t and shouldn’t compare and measure Iran’s security needs within her geopolitical atmosphere, with others such as US, Israel, NK, etc., basically policy makers just don’t make their security decision based on what security measure someone else uses. For example let us measure and compare and see if Israel’s nuclear bombs have changed or added to her security dynamics, and then see if Iran has the same geopolitical defensive and deterrence need as Israel does. Israel has territorial disputes with all her neighbors, actually Israel’s existence as a foreign not local creation is not accepted or realized and recognized by any of her neighbors, but further it’s said since 1967 Israel has had nuclear weapons, well then did her nuclear weapons prevented her neighbors attacking her more than 1o times since early 70’s , is it her Nukes that has stopped intifada or is it a cement wall ( one of the first defensive measure created by human beings), now does Iran have territorial disputes with her neighbors like Israel does , is Iran’s a foreign introduced made up state that her existence is disputed and not recognized and realized by her neighbors or on the contrary for her common culture with her neighbors she is praised and fallowed.

    Same argument and measure can be made and compared and construed with any of other nuclear states, including Nuclear bomb value as defense and deter with regard to US hegemonic posture. How can Iran defend herself if US decide to invade Iran, nuke them on Iran’ mainland? Or nuke them on Qatar, Kuwait, Afghanistan, we can and is acceptable to conventionally bomb US military / economic installation on our historic neighbor’s homeland. Firstly is crazy to use nuclear bomb 150 KM across the water where we live, let say, like what these Arcade warrior recommend, we become crazy and nuke US base in Bahrain, how and with what can we expect they retaliate with? Can we retaliate and nuke NY, or London to stop them, do they already know we can’t and we wouldn’t, if they know we can’t what value our bomb deterrence has for them? On the balance of it, if you know and they know you can’t use and therefore conduct a non-conventional war, why you need to have nuclear bombs made, and give them more reason to isolate you, which is why Israel/ fyd and his crew on this blog wants to make believe and prove Iran strategically needs to have a defensive/deterring nuclear bomb and therefore is in deceptive work making one. Now does anybody believe adding a working nuclear bomb stop sanctions? I think not, those who think having the Iran bomb will eventually stop the sanctions should explain, how and why? If they can’t isn’t this the end result they hope and their aim is, meaning an added and more permanent measure of divide, a more permanent isolation and incubation on both sides?

    Israeli’s and their lobby’s web crew, believe there are two benefits they can gain by making believe Iran needs and is making a nuclear bomb, it will scare/isolate Iran with her neighbors, as well as internationally.

  244. Smith says:

    Nasser says:
    August 19, 2014 at 11:02 pm

    This strategy of theirs will fail too. They had tried to use Taliban against Iran, but it failed. The reason which they do not understand is that the hard deobandi/wahabi Islam is a decentralized ideology that by its very definition renders such groups uncontrollable for long term strategic purposes. Mix in the tribalism of these lands, you will see that things will not go the way the mad king plans them to. No matter how much more money and manpower UK and its Nejdi creation keep supplying to Isis, it will be of no use. As Assad had said, these fools are just coming here to die. Today an Isis man with pure British accent cut the throat of an American “journalist” who had gone there to make propaganda against Assad. The biggest disgrace a military planner can face in his career is when in the heat of a battle, one of his formations turns on another formation. The opposing force commander would literally be rolling on the ground with laughter as I am sure Assad and his Iranian advisers are.

  245. Empty says:

    Jay,
    RE: It is not the sense of morality that drives rational thinking, rather it is rational thinking that pushes toward moral alternatives.

    From a Quranic Perspecitve (based on my limited and evolving understanding), the relationship between rational thinking/decision making (“عقلانیت”) and moral thinking/decision making is one of cyclical and dialectical in nature rather than linear and one-way causal. They are considered mutually inclusive.
    We understand that if rational foundation of morality is not explored, understood well, and implemented, morality will soon be lost and “فساد” or corruption will replace it. Conversely, if the moral foundation of rationality is not understood, guarded, and implemented, irrationality will replace it while disguising itself as rationality, again leading to “فساد” or corruption on Earth.

    I think the arguments about nuclear weapons development, stockpile, and use (pros or cons) perhaps deliberately or unintentionally miss this decision-making lens that Iranian leaders present. Irrationality and immorality of NWs go hand in hand as the empirical/historical evidences of the past 65 years, when examined thoughtfully and closely, demonstrate.

  246. Empty says:

    Jay,

    I think the western media prefers the kind of Islam that beheads masses of people and makes live video captures and publication of such events than the kind of Islam that lays the rational and moral foundation of Ayatollah Khamenei’s fatwa rooted in Quran. The former case helps with their own narratives. The latter contradicts them.

  247. kooshy says:

    An amazing speech by Ayatollah Khamenei almost 30 years ago,

    http://farsi.khamenei.ir/video-content?id=24463

  248. M. Ali says:

    Jay and Kooshy explain it in a way I agree. The arguments for nuclear weapons don’t seem to take into consideration the real reason some of us are against it.

    Every action a government takes has advantages and disadvantages, and a rational leader(s) should weigh all the pros and cons and make the best decision. Its not that having a nuclear weapon has no benefit at all, but that the costs involved with it outweight the benefit.

    I’ve also argued before that heading towards having a nuclear weapon will cause Iran massive geopolitical pain. The attacks and isolation that comes from western countries will be ten fold. Western countries that sometimes ease a bit on Iran will instead turn into a much bigger enemy. Powers that, at times, can be a bit lenient on Iran such as Russia and China will change face overnight and be much more aggressive towards Iran. Its neighbors will trust it even less. NAM countries without a nuclear weapons programme will have a distaste of Iran.

    And this in turn means that isolation of Iran will increase, sanctions will increase, and efforts to damage Iran political and economically will be massive. The Gulf countries will spent a thousand times more on causing damage to Iran and its interests because they would be worried about a nuclear weapons Iran. US, the west, and Israel will also vastly increase their budget for causing damage to Iran. There won’t be any anti-Iranian resolution in UN towards Iran that China or Russia will even consider vetoeing. There are no reason why they would be happy to see Iran get nukes. Sunni Jihadists will have a lovely target, because they’d have nightmares of a Shia power having a nuclear weapons.

    If Iran somehow survives all of this, and does get nukes, now what? Would it have been worth it? Is the state now stronger than it was before, or has the indirect attacks against Iran worked so well that, we are now a weak, damaged ruined state, holding a nuclear weapon that is impotent to us?

    Yes, we have seen that a nuclear country might not get directly attacked as a conventional war, but we have also seen that it isn’t the Holy Grail. There have been examples of Pakistan getting hit constantly by drone attacks, and yes, I know the counterargument, that yes, Pakistan allows it, but that’s exactly it. It has turned into such a useless state that its nukes didn’t protect it against foreign interferenace. Maybe if it had a political mentality that weighs its options better, and didn’t go for nukes, but instead invested in a stronger system, we might have had a Pakistan today without nukes, but a stable government, strong economy, good relationships with its allies, and a nation that would never allow US to use drones in it.

    Or if USSR didn’t spend so much time and money on nukes, it might not have collapsed and we still would have had a strong USSR.

    Maybe if Israel, instead of depending on nukes, and instead made more rational decisions, they would have considered options that would have found the resolution to their problems with Palestanians, and today we’d have a non-nuclear Jewish state that has good relationships with the Arab public and an ally of Iran.

    There might come a day when Iran choosing to have nuclear weapons might be the best decision for its country, but currently, it would be a path that will harm our nation more than it will help.

  249. yk says:

    Kooshy

    See what I told you about this close zionist, just one glimpse of opposition to his beloved illegitimate entity and all hell will be let loose and all his pretense will be exposed down to his panties.

    Please be careful with what you say to him and his crew because they might become annoyed and report to their masters, and you know what their masters do when they are annoyed? Yeah you bet, they kill Palestinian women and children. No not kill! Sorry they pulverised them.

    Nowadays we live among the walking dead.

  250. Karl.. says:

    Jay

    “There is no support, at the present, for the hypothesis that such deterrent would hold for asymmetric nuclear states. Note that Pakistan, a nuclear weapon state, is regularly bombed by American drones with impunity.”

    Please explain “assyemtric nuclear states”. Pakistan is getting bombed because Pakistan accept US bombing it. US is not bombing the leadership in Pakistan, obviously and thus dont threaten the statehood in that sense.

  251. Jay says:

    kooshy says:
    August 20, 2014 at 12:18 am

    Framing the question in its proper context places the debate in better focus. Your examples illustrate the importance of context (in the full sense).

  252. Jay says:

    Empty says:
    August 20, 2014 at 12:57 am

    I agree with your point that the relationship between moral and rational is not a linear one. I attempted (and perhaps not succeeded) to construct the sentence that you quoted in a manner that construed the deeper relationship.

  253. Jay says:

    Empty says:
    August 20, 2014 at 1:05 am

    Western media’s portrayal of much of non-western world has a sub-text of moral and intellectual superiority. At one point in history, this sense of superiority was not openly boasted about. No longer! American exceptionalism is now a fait accompli!

  254. Jay says:

    M. Ali says:
    August 20, 2014 at 3:36 am

    Thank you for expanding on the contextual examples that illustrate the nuances of the debate.

  255. Jay says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 20, 2014 at 6:42 am

    The definition of asymmetry in nuclear deterrence is the subject of intense debate. I will not attempt an academic definition, but suggest a retrospective visit to the cold war era. The notion of strategic parity at the time was related to the symmetry between the US and Russia. In carrying out the scenarios of war using a mix of strategic and tactical nuclear weapons along with conventional means of war, taking a number of unfolding scenarios into place, all of which avoided total extinction (I believe unrealistically), and evaluating “win” and “loss”, there was agreement that there existed a “symmetry” of force. Notice that at the time, both countries had enough warheads to destroy all life on earth several times over. Therefore, simply counting the number of warheads was not a meaningful exercise – symmetry required the complete contextual consideration of multiple unfolding scenarios in the case of a war.

  256. fyi says:

    M. Ali says:

    August 20, 2014 at 3:36 am

    You are not looking at it the right way.

    The objective is increased material power measured in how many tens of millions of people one can annihilate in 15 minutes.

  257. fyi says:

    All:

    Dr. Saberi, observing that Axis Powers were never ready for settlement with Iran on the nuclear file – their policy was entirely based on the assumption of the inevitable Iranian capitulation (short war delusion syndrome): (in Persian)

    http://www.irdiplomacy.ir/fa/page/1937254/%D9%86%D8%A7+%D8%A2%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%AF%DA%AF%DB%8C+%D8%BA%D8%B1%D8%A8+%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C+%D9%86%D8%AA%DB%8C%D8%AC%D9%87+%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%AF+%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%AF.html

  258. fyi says:

    All:

    To a man with a hammer, all problems look like nails – especially if that man loves hammers:

    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=67719

  259. fyi says:

    All:

    Let us revisit an opinion by Mr. Arbatov from this past July:

    http://carnegie.ru/2014/07/17/iran-russia-and-ukrainian-crisis/hg7u#

    He expects a war against Iran if negotiations fail….

  260. fyi says:

    All:

    I am posting this again:

    All:

    Speech by Mr. Putin in Yalta:

    http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22820

    We read:

    “…North Korea, the People’s Republic of China, Pakistan, India, Israel, Iran – almost all the countries in the world are working on this type of weapons. So, the development of these missiles in China or India does not cause any concern to us, because these are friendly states and I am certain that the relations we have established with China and India will last…”

    Russia does not consider Iran a friendly state with which enduring friendly relations could be established.

    She is no India nor China.

    And then Mr. Putin goes on to express alarm at the situation in Pakistan.

    Iranian leaders best pay attention to Mr. Putin’s assessment, both in regards to the potential of Russian-Iranian relations as well as with respect to nuclear threat from Pakistan.

  261. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Chances the Pakistani government would hit Iran with nukes surely are near zero.

  262. fyi says:

    All:

    An excellent explanation for why Arab states will do nothing against ISIS:

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9d9227e8-278f-11e4-ae44-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3Ax7cHfn0

  263. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 20, 2014 at 1:07 pm

    You would be more credible if your country was not living under the protection of a nuclear force.

  264. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    What countries are the “Axis powers” you seem to claim want to block a deal between Iran and the P5+1? Turkey? Poland?

  265. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Are you seriously contending that the government of Pakistan might attack Iran with nukes?

  266. James Canning says:

    Karl.., Jay,

    US drone attacks carried out in Pakistan are not attacks on “Pakistan”. US airstrikes on Isis targets in Iraq are not attacks on “Iraq”. Etc etc. Jay should be able to grasp the difference.

  267. fyi says:

    All:

    An amusing piece – a thug accusing the other thug for breaking the Law – “International Law”:

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/kremlin-is-a-fugitive-from-international-justice/505528.html

  268. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 20, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    I am seriously saying that if you are within striking distance of 4-nuclear armed states then you need to get out of NPT and build a nuclear arsenal.

    No, Pakistan is a friend of Iran and the Shia – that is why they are killing Shia everywhere; and Punjabis are waiting the departure of US forces from Afghanistan to go there. And I am certain, with metaphysical certainty, that the Shia will be killed in Afghanistan as well.

    Just like a number of commentators here have arrogate to themselves the Powers of God in distinguishing who is and is not a Muslim, so have very many Sunni Muslims – among Arabs, among Indonesians, among Turks, among Pakistanis.

    To them, Shia are not Muslims and ought to be killed.

    Iran face multiple threats: from Arabs, from the Axis Powers, from Israel, and from Pakistan.

    To this must be added the realization that Russia is not a friend of Iran and does not see Iran as a potential friend.

    And then there is this: Great Powers, historically, have been rather successful in getting smaller states and weaker one to do their dastardly deals for them.

    Enough said.

  269. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    I take it you concede that Saddam Hussein in fact destroyed most of Iraq’s WMD in 1991, after the Gulf War.

    Do you still argue that Saddam was wise to conceal this fact, thus enabling his enemies in the West to plot his destruction?

  270. fyi says:

    All:

    How Mr. Erdogan won women’s vote:

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/turkey-women-akp-vote-presidential-elections.html

    Basically, he respected women as autonomous individuals who could make their own decisions.

  271. M.Ali says:

    You moron, did you read your own article

    “With these numbers, it is understandable that Erdogan’s rhetoric and policies on alcohol, number of children, abortion and dress code and labor market participation find female voter appreciation..

    …In addition, segregated facilities are appreciated by these women…. They credit, rightfully so, the AKP for the spread of religious education — which allows for separate schools by gender — women-only buses, swimming pools and beaches.”

    Look at the sky, do you see the fallout? Because I just nuked you so badly haha.

  272. M.Ali says:

    Basically, that article argues that erogan got woman’s votes by having Erogan talk about policies that are most similar to Iran’s out of those politicians. I guess if Ahmadneijad runs there, he’d win by a landslide amongst the women.

  273. fyi says:

    M.Ali says:

    August 20, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    Precisely; in Iran, the votes of those who object to the Moral Police is ignored.

    Mr. Erdogan’s situation is obverse of Iran’s; used to be a woman with a scarf could not enter any university, or high-school, or government office in Turkey.

    He respected women by removing state’s interference with what women chose to wear.

    He respected women to do as they saw fit.

    Again, go to the Istanbul University and watch all those young men and women come and go without fear of moral police – or secular police.

    Some wearing scarves, some not wearing them.

  274. kooshy says:

    M.Ali says:
    August 20, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    I can’t stop laughing, yesterday I wrote him that I don’t bother reading his linked/referenced comments, since by now I know his point of view, I think he really thought he has got it easy, no one else is checking and reading his linked comments, so he can pull and chose at will, add his own comment as it fits to back up his own deceptive plans and agendas. Good catch, this should keep him work harder for his deceptive tactics, and should keep him on leash for a while.

  275. BiBiJon says:

    James Canning says:
    August 20, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    “Do you still argue that Saddam was wise to conceal this fact[destroyed most of Iraq’s WMD in 1991], thus enabling his enemies in the West to plot his destruction?”

    Oh, yes, there was a 12,000 page concealment folks.

    “On December 7, 2002, Iraq submitted its 12,000 page declaration, which claimed that it had no current WMD programs. Intelligence analysts from the United States and other nations immediately began to scrutinize the document, and senior U.S. officials quickly rejected the claims. ”

    From http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/

    But, there was an authoritative and reliable source back in 1995. Saddam’s brother-in-law gave the game away. The fact that Saddam executed him when he went back to Iraq was further proof that Mr. Kamel was telling it like it was. See ;www.fair.org/blog/2013/03/04/ten-years-ago-the-truth-about-iraqi-wmds-was-published-and-ignored/

    Problem is a psychotic western political class, hell bent on committing barbaric savagery, having decided on the victim, would not believe anyone, nor anything, 12,000 pages or not.

    The institutionalized destructive/murderous impulse which the West cannot not restrain whether in Iraq, Libya or Syria is what has lined up the rest of the world against the west. Your trying to blame the victims shows the problem persists and must continue to be confronted by SCO, BRICS, NAM, in South China Sea, in Ukraine, and wherever else the west has trained its crosshairs on.

  276. yk says:

    M.Ali

    It’s like someone who vomited and eat his own vomit thinking no one saw him, but alas there he was in the full glare of the public. Thanks for the timely observation it’s real fun.

  277. BiBiJon says:

    yk says:
    August 20, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    Yikes!

  278. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    August 20, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    You are of course correct, the Ba’ath Iraq was designated for destruction by US.

    Just as Iran is.

  279. yk says:

    Bib, kooshy, M.ali, Bibijon, Empty, Jay

    Check this out

    http://rt.com/op-edge/180048-palestine-gaza-israel-colonialism/

    At least there are still some on that side side of the river who have not lost their humanity.

  280. fyi says:

    yk says:

    August 20, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    You still do not get it.

    Mr. Erdogan freed Turkish women who were being oppressed by the state in order to force them to conform to a vision of secularism.

    Regrettably, in Iran, we have a long way to go to before the state stops its oppression of Iranian women in order conform to a vision of religiosity.

    Go walk in the streets of Karaköy and see for yourself various Iranian women – some wearing scarf, some not wearing it, some doing this, some not doing this and never fearing being molested by the security organs of the state.

    It is for this and other such reasons that I have sated what I have stated:

    In no Muslim polity is a Muslim safe in his person, in his property and in his namus.

  281. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 20, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    Qualitatively, as long as a person arrgogate to himself the Power of Judgement as to the piety or religiosity of others, there is nothing that separate him and ISIS.

    None.

    For the members of ISIS have decided who is and is not a Muslim, who is and is not a good Muslims – like some commentators on this site -; the end result of which is just more dead and displaced people.

    از ان راه خطا برگرد و با همت بر این ره شو

  282. yk says:

    Fyi

    And I said you were caught pant down and for your age you should be ashamed and a little sign of remorse would not be too bad, but it appears you have none left.

  283. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 20, 2014 at 5:49 pm
    The difference that you obviously prefer to ignore is that ISIS like Israel don’t go and put out a referendum which all who care as young as 15 are able and can participate in this system unlike in Israel or IS, majority will get to chose to set the laws tradition and norms accepted to the majority.

    Do you care to understand what the term Islamic republic means! or you think it should be ignored no matter what the majority voters of Iran’ model and constitutions referendums wanted and did. I think weather we agree with it or not we should have respect for Iran’s majority voters election, unless we have other agenda that we think blogging here is going to undermine and unseat the Iranian system, that kind of thinking only can come from post revloution expatriate shit heads who listen or work for likes of Manoshe Amir.
    Here in LA I encounter a lot like you with disrespect for majority but they deeply believe what they say and want is the real democracy. Same dis-formatted mentality as yourself.

  284. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 20, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    “You are of course correct, the Ba’ath Iraq was designated for destruction by US.

    Just as Iran is.”

    Our agreements are always limited, and this is no exception. While true Iraq, and Iran (and Libya, and Syria) have long been targets, But all were low hanging fruits compared to Iran.

    E.g. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-08-20/iran-speaks-more-softly-but-keeps-building-bigger-sticks

    There was, there is no possible way Iran can be attacked without causing mayehm in global markets. Anybody initiating such an attack on any cooked up flimsy excuses will soon have to cease and desist the aggression while Iran will not have to concede a damn thing. That was true in 2003. It is a heck of lot truer now.

  285. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You are simply delusional is you believe Iran is “designated for destruction” by the US. Total nonsense. Provided, of course, a deal is achieved with P5+1.

    Again, various rabid “supporters” of Israel in the US would like Iran to get a good bashing.

  286. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    GW Bush a number of times asked, during national security council meetings in 2002-2003, why Iraq should be attacked when it had nothing to do with the “9/11” attacks.
    Sadly, the extreme incompetence of Saddam Hussein led directly to his destruction. Saddam’s foreign minister might have been able to avoid the invasion, if Saddam had not so tightly restricted his actions (and those of other prominent Iraqis).

  287. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    Gross incompetence, and stupidity, on the part of Saddam Hussein made it possible for the liar neocons to dupe the moron in the White House. To call a spade a spade is not to excuse the conspirators who set up the illegal and idiotic US invasion of Iraq.

    As FYI has noted, Saddam was cunning, and ruthless, but rather stupid.

  288. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    I am glad you are aware that Iraq had destroyed most of its WMD, on orders of Saddam Hussein, in 1991. Too many people ignore this fact.

    Today in the Wall Street Journal, an editorial claimed Syria has not destroyed all of its CW. And, of course, Obama is berated for not overthrowing the Syrian government.

  289. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    When one is dealing with the profoundly ignorant American public, release of a 1200 page report accomplishes less than having a few celebrities visit Iraq to see the wreckage of Iraqi WMD programme.

  290. Jay says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 20, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    Thank you for dealing with James’ nonsense. I ignored him because it was more of the same mindless babble we are used to, but alas he will probably change spots and move on to a different branch of the tree!

  291. James Canning says:

    BiBiJon,

    You apparently do not understand that GW Bush did have serious doubts about the merits of attacking Iraq when Iraq had not attacked the US. By downplaying or ignoring this fact, you tend to excuse the conspirators. In my judgment.

  292. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 20, 2014 at 6:26 pm

    This has nothing to do with the Islamic Republic and has everything to do with the legacy of absolutism in politics as well as in thought.

    What difference does it make when the state oppresses you because you are to Islamic and the other state oppresses you because you are not sufficiently Islamic?

    What difference does it make when you are killed because you are too Islamic or not Islamic at all?

  293. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    August 20, 2014 at 6:26 pm

    You, like very many, are evidently sufficiently delusional to predicate your trust and the security of Iranian people on a simple syllogism.

    And analogous syllogism was believed by many Iranian leaders, that the Central bank of Iran will not be sanctioned.

    Which was sanctioned.

    A warrior’s backing is his sword.

  294. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 20, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    Future would tell; I am in agreement with Mr. Richard Steven Hack.

    Destruction of the Shia Crescent is the strategic aim of US and her allies – in Europe and in ME.

    And I also have come to the conclusion that the Russian Federation will do nothing to support Iran; they can no longer afford that.

  295. fyi says:

    Ataune:

    I cannot judge if there is any change in US policy towards Iran that is anything but tactical.

    I cannot tell if a few recent nuanced policy statements of US about Iran are small course corrections that could be seized upon by the next President of the United State to re-orient US policy towards Iran or not.

    I think it is prudent for Iranian leaders to assume the worst.

    For myself, I would look for visible changes – say in Syria, in the economic war against Iran, or in regards to ISIS financing.

  296. M.Ali says:

    “A warrior’s backing is his sword.”

    Does this guy sometimes dress up and join real life fantasy groups?

  297. fyi says:

    All:

    An Iranian Muslim threatening other Iranin Muslims because – they are not sufficiently Islamic:

    http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/iran-cleric-isis-westernized-khomeini-threat-conservative.html

    One wonders if he had ever heard of – Prophet of Mercy -پیغمبر رحمت

  298. kooshy says:

    “Legacy of absolutism in politics as well as in thought”

    WTF is the legacy of absolutism, which section of dis-formatted mind can mix-up big words and make no sense?
    “Legacy of absolutism in politics” you mean fascism, absolute monarchy, isn’t this same as ignoring elections and referendums, and “legacy of absolutism in thoughts” isn’t that like a self-centered eagle maniac mind, like what you suggest which is absolute majority’ norms of comfort should be ignored for what you ( an absolute minority) think is right, fitting and just, who in the word sets or did set what is humanly, right and just, these including all human rights laws is all humanly relative man made laws which are agreed in conventions ( voting , adopting )

    I asked you before, you want to debate, don’t “scape to Karbala Sahara” and dramatize, don’t put big meaningless words together to make a non-sense term, for god’s sake this not Huffington post man, behave yourself. Frankly said, as I have observed, your problem with the ones they don’t agree with you on this blog is disrespect, first and most disrespect for blue non elite lower class, the way you compare lack of intelligence with their professions (by the way have you ever watched a Yazdi bricklayer Ostad at work), second is your disrespect for majority decisions, that is, if you think it don’t fit your point of view, and especially if it was voted in by the bricklayers class. One may think that you absolutely have an old feudalist (Arbab) view of the society, like, I can be sure, that you think anyone without a bachelor degree or having a land shouldn’t be allowed to vote for laws that he she is going to live by, this mind set what I call (dis-formatted mind) in my view is despicable.

  299. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 20, 2014 at 5:45 pm
    No sir, you don’t get it! Erdogan is doing what he is doing based on a majority vote for AKP in the Parliament, exactly the same way as what happened in Iran in early 1360s. And believe me, if even a sizable minority (let alone a majority) in Iran favored revoking of dress codes enforcement, they would have got their way.

  300. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    August 20, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    EXACTLY! I think a major problem with Iranian Intelligentsia is that they really don’t accept the principles of democracy (all are equal but some are more equal!). Their understanding of a republic is that of Plato’s Republica.
    And the more troubling point is this way of thinking is still present among some Iranians, living in Iran. And when their candidate doesn’t win the election…

  301. kooshy says:

    Europe is still down in economic shithole, and no hope for climb out. I say let sanction more countries it may help a faster recovery.

    France Acknowledges Economic Malaise, Blaming Austerity
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/business/international/france-acknowledges-economic-malaise-blaming-austerity.html

  302. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    kooshy-jan,

    The fact that arrogant old a-hole can’t produce a single reference wear SL has said or hinted at the fact Iran is looking for Russia or China to “protect” it proves one thing about his house-of-cards argument that concludes with Iran “needing” nuclear weapons:

    Pulled right out of his ass, like everything else he spews.

    Also notice when you raised the very relevant issue of Islamic REPUBLIC supported by the vast majority of Iranians we went fleeing into the sewer like a rat and tried to change the subject.

    As long as the majority of Iranians support the Islamic Republic- and remember he predicted it would last 77 years- as long as that is well, he can suck my hairy basiji ass.

    Amir-jan,

    Support for his impeachment was broad and included MPs from various backgrounds. The fact that Ali Khan’s doping didn’t work is another example that Iran is a real DEMOCRACY, tu ruhe fyi.

  303. Amir says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    August 21, 2014 at 7:45 am

    Indeed tu ruhesh!! Could Zanganeh be next?

  304. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 20, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    There is a thing called “Keramat Ensani” – majority cannot abrogate it.

    You do not believe in it, evidently.

  305. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 20, 2014 at 11:55 pm

    You believe in neither intrinsic rights of human beings nor their inherent dignity – keramat ensani.

    The majority is constrained by those rights – which you do not recognize.

  306. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 20, 2014 at 8:56 pm

    You asked about “Legacy of Absolutism in Thought”:

    When the late Mr. Khomeini was teaching in Qum, he and his family were shunned since he had a reputation of being a philosopher.

    His children were treated as “najis” – ritualistically impure because of that.

    Evidently, very many Muslims had decided – per their usual practice – that he was not a good Muslim.

    There are many many such cases….

  307. fyi says:

    All:

    http://gulfnews.com/news/region/iraq/iran-links-iraq-role-to-lifting-of-sanctions-1.1374899?utm_content=1.1374899&utm_medium=RSS&utm_source=Feeds&utm_campaign=Iran+links+Iraq+role+to+lifting+of+sanctions&localLinksEnabled=false&utm_term=News+RSS+feed

    I doubt that US-EU will lift any sanctions on Iran as a price of her cooperation in Iraq.

    For they correctly assess that Iran has to oppose and fight ISIS in any case and the removal of their sanctions – which they have put so much effort and thought in their imposition – and the attendant costs to the world economy – is too steep a price to pay.

    Furthermore, the war is being fought not on their turf and ISIS – they would hope – will see the light and resume attacking Shia at some time in the future.

    In the meantime, they & their Arab allies would be sending their Sunni Muslim extremist young men to Iraq and Syria to be killed by the forces loyal to the Iraqi and Syrian governments.

    I do not see any negative consequences for Axis Powers in this.

    They have to manage perception that they are against terrorism – that seems to be all.

    This will all dissipate if ISIS resumes its attacks against Shia interests.

  308. kooshy says:

    Sanctions rebound to hit Europeans
    By Brian Cloughley

    On the other hand, Washington considers it has the God-given right to listen to everyone’s private deliberations and tell every nation in the world how to run its affairs and if necessary to enforce this by military intervention. The fact that such military fiddling proved utterly catastrophic in Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan and Libya is neither here nor there. The next frontier is Ukraine.

    And poor decrepit leaderless old Britain, socially confused and morally collapsing, tries to combat what it sees as world chaos by following the example of its erratic mentor in applying sanctions on Russia, a country whose amity it would be well-advised to seek.

    There is no border between the US or the UK and Ukraine. There is no military treaty binding them together. Ukraine is not a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It doesn’t belong to the European Union. It has no cultural connection with that Union, and its trade with the entire EU is tiny. It is, however, dependent on Russia for a great deal. And so is the EU, which has no intention whatever of letting Ukraine join it.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-210814.html

  309. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 8:34 am
    And who made you the arbiter of human dignity?
    What purpose do you follow by claiming that Iran must go for nuclear weapons, when every Iranian official says weapons of mass destruction have no place in our country’s defense doctrine?
    Why do you keep demonizing our country by claiming people are deprived of their freedoms and rights?
    Why do you oppose our political system by claiming it doesn’t represent the Iranians?
    What would your parents say if they saw you colluding with the enemies of Iran and Islam? Why are you disseminating lies about us?

  310. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 8:34 am
    Shame on you! Shame on you! You are cooperating with those whose hands are drenched in our bloods. Why do you want to destroy our beloved motherland?
    Have you heard the cries of mothers of infants with metabolic disorders who couldn’t buy specific formulas for their infants?
    Have you seen those who lost their loved ones who needed medications for cancer?
    I hope you get what you deserve, you despicable, vile, venomous, shameless man.

  311. yk says:

    Amir

    Please do not waste your time on him, he is left with no pride, dignity or self esteem. Any one who will betray is own nation to the enemy is not even worth being compared with animal.

    Victor Hugo said ” there is one thing stronger than all the armies of the world, and that is an idea whose time has come. ” Let the old fool take it to his grave the fact that no amount of hasbara, genocide and beastly act by the fifth columnists like Fyd and his warm up act, zionists, IS and the US can stop the Islamic Awakening, the revolution of the bricklayers and downtrodden whom Fyd so much hate seeing at the top.

  312. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 8:23 am

    “There is a thing called “Keramat Ensani” – majority cannot abrogate it”

    How much of that you see in Israel and in the west with regard to their actions toward the ME, I don’t see you criticize Israel/west for lack of “Keramat Ensani” (no matter how much innocent they kill around the world), as much as you do Iran’s system for not killing anyone. As matter of fact all, and all the times you comment, that in your opinion no rapprochements accommodation is possible, fine, but never less regardless of a possible relationship or not, you don’t criticize them for lack of humanity “ensanyat” toward others, you actually believe more of “Keramat Ensani” exist in Israel/west than it exist in Iran, no matter who goes occupies other peoples countries and kills them still there is no Karamat in Iran. I would suggest bite the bullet and start talking about how “Keramat Ensani” can be restored in occupied Palestine.

  313. kooshy says:

    Does anyone here notices the “Keramat Ensani” in Missouri , does anybody notice “Keramat Ensani” in making, providing, supporting and sending black clad ISIS British murderers and others loose on half of middle east. Where is your “Keramat Ensani”, all the time criticizing Iran and closing your eyes on pure murder done by your beloved civilized Westerners and Israelis? Where is your “Keramat Ensani”.

  314. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 21, 2014 at 10:22 am

    You wrote:

    “Have you heard the cries of mothers of infants with metabolic disorders who couldn’t buy specific formulas for their infants?”

    Perhaps if you and your kind had encouraged the people with those types of expertise to stay in Iran you could have avoided this type of situation.

    For, per your own admission, you do not want a man with a necktie to stay in Iran – since he is not a good-enough Muslim for the “Islamic System”.

    Perhaps, instead of supporting the “Oxford Branch of Azad University” you and your kind could have made those funds available to 5 young entrepreneurs and engineers to start a company to remove this vulnerability.

  315. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 21, 2014 at 10:54 am

    Your responses on this forum as well as those of a few others – which always degenerates into name-calling and swearing, clearly demonstrates the legacy of “Absolutist Thought”.

  316. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 21, 2014 at 10:14 am

    I am stating my opinion.

  317. Karl.. says:

    Isnt it time we all take a step back from name-calling, smearing etc? If even we fight here, how can we possibly reach out to others?

  318. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 11:57 am
    You and your false accusations! And don’t ever mention the name of my country you traitor!

  319. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 11:59 am
    You are disseminating lies. And in this age of information technology there are those who would read your baseless accusations and might believe some of them. And if you repeat a lie many a time, eventually it would appear at the top of search lists [of search engines] and that would become another base for building up cases against/ in favor of other claims ad infinitum; that is, if you repeat a lie countless times on the web, in actuality it would become a truth.

  320. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 11:57 am

    “For, per your own admission, you do not want a man with a necktie to stay in Iran ”
    per you own admission! per my own admission!
    What gloomy day was it when you learnt English, so that you could spread your venom in English language! What unfortunate person was he who taught you English! And they thought they are educating someone who would contribute to this land, little did they know that they are nurturing a snake! Cursed be your name!

  321. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 11:58 am

    Actually since you avoided engaging on the question I asked with regard to your opinion on lack or abundance of “Keramat Ensani” in the West and Israel toward other (non-exceptional) nations and countries, I think all of us here on this blog, should
    expand on the subject of “Parameters of Existing Keramat Ensani in West and Israel” and post comments with our opinions on the amount of “Keramat Ensani” that Israel and westerners have and are showing toward other non-western communities and races, I would be impatiently waiting, to read comments on this subject made by you and other Hasbara boys on this blog, I would like to see if it is allowed to make comments much passing the limits made and are set on Haaretz reporting.

  322. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 21, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    Why do you care about other countries?

  323. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 21, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    “Why do you care about other countries?’

    Don’t even try – you can’t escape this question, you have been all along preaching and demonizing Iran and other Muslim countries here to us, on the Universality of human dignity “Keramat Ensani” and the lack of it in Muslim countries, now you ask me why I am interested on other countries like Israel and you avoid making and expanding on the subject of Israel and your partner wants to Stop Name Calling ( a**holes isn’t it name calling when 20 times a day you and your crew put down my country, my culture, my people with your shity irrelevant Hasbara comments ), please don’t scape to Negev desert, I want to hear your opinion about “Keramat Ensani” of Israel and the west, look you brought up yourself, boys give us your openion on the abundance of US/Israeli Karamat. You are done remember what Ann Richard said “you can stick a fork in it”

  324. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    Ukraine’s membership in the EU is many years away. Nato membership is highly unlikely, in my view.

  325. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Surely Isis is not “financed” by the US.

  326. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The US and EU support Iraq’s territorial integrity and they support the Iraqi central government. And you continue to argue they are at “war” with the “Shia Crescent”?

  327. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    There is no need for name-calling and smearing and what if “fyi” like or dislike how Iran is governed? What does it matter to you? Its just one view of many, if you disagree – show that hes wrong instead of this name-calling argument you are using.

  328. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 21, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    Karl, do you have any opinion on parameters of the “Karamat Ensani” in the west and Israel? If so please let us know, we all have heard your guys ideas on universality of human dignity in Iran and Muslim states, now is about time you tell us what you think of the same subject with regard to Israel and west toward Muslims and other non-westerners including Israeli Arabs and Africans, if you don’t you guys have not much to say or offer. Do you think Israel is an apartheid state? And do you approve of that?

  329. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 21, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    Silly.

    Saudi Arabia is financing them – or so Iranians claim.

  330. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 21, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Perhaps they could help Iraq by sanctioning the Saudi Central Bank so that funding for ISIS could dry up?

    Perhaps they could be attacking from Incerlick?

    No my friend, ISIS is needed against the Shia and Iran.

  331. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    That Isis is obtaining some financial backing from certain Saudis seems clear.

  332. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    I dont know what “Karamat Ensani” is/mean to begin with and I dont understand how you could have missed all my criticism against Israel the past years I have been here.

  333. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 21, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    The world anxiously awaits the application of the same financial instruments that were so successfully applied against Iran and Syria to the financiers of ISIS.

    Of course, I do not expect any action; Axis Powers have their Good Terrorists and their Bad Terrorists.

    ISIS were the Good Terrorists – until they attacked KRG – and HAMAS are the Bad Terrorists.

    Business as usual – hypocrisy, double-standard, expediency and a whole bunch of other things – collectively known as the Fall of Man.

  334. Nasser says:

    Excellentery good post from Mindfriedo on Saker’s blog

    I am sure I am leaving out some gems but some of my favorite passages quoted below:

    – “Short Analysis: What has been the outcome of Daash’s advance for Iraq’s different sects and players?
    Daash’s advance has primarily resulted in the ethnic cleansing/division of Iraq. Iraq now resembles Baghdad after its sectarian violence of 2006. The Shias in the north can never return and will be resettled in the South. The Kurds will also head to their enclave and almost all Sunni Iraqis will leave areas where Shias and Kurds dominate.

    The return of communities is next to impossible. There is no force that can guarantee the protection of Iraq’s ethnic groups in places where they are either a minority or surrounded by other communities.

    …The Shia militias have gained/will gain power in the south like never before and through them Iran’s influence will grow….An exception has been Moqtada Sadr’s militia that has lost ground because of its aversion to sectarian violence….”

    – “The Peshmergas whose name translates to those that rush towards death/face death/stay in front of death or any other mythical characteristic abandoned their positions in Sinjar and fled the onslaught of Daash leaving the locals to fend/face death for themselves. These locals had asked to leave but the Peshmergas, comfortable in the assumption that Daash was fighting Baghdad, had promised to fight and protect them. A betrayal less dastardly than the US betrayal of both the Shias and the Kurds during the first Gulf War because America’s betrayal was calculated while that of the Kurds was out of self preservation.”

    – “Daash has also achieved something unique. It has brought out the most vicious aspects of Saudis/Qatari/UAE brand of Islam and forced even these countries to introspect. It has distinguished for most intelligent Muslims the big line dividing Shia Islam and Sunni Islam, the thin one dividing Orthodox Sunni Islam and Salafism (it is not that the difference is minor, but the shifting from one belief system to the other has been an easy one for most Sunnis; for instance it is easier for a Sunni to change his views to that of a Salafi than for him to even consider the Jafari school of thought) and the blurred thin line between Wahabbism and Takfir.”

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/08/august-20th-iraq-sitrep-by-mindfriedo.html

  335. Nasser says:

    Smith says: August 20, 2014 at 12:22 am

    – Excellent assessment. I agree of course.

    But I will add that nonetheless I expect no course correction from the Western powers because all this is happening far from their home and it is Middle Easterns (whom they regard as animals) that will be doing the dying. Also uncontrollable or not they still harm Iran.

  336. nico says:

    kooshy says:
    August 21, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    The US is the worst police state in the world and the guy fed to US and is criticizing Iran!
    He is a queer joke.

  337. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 21, 2014 at 2:36 pm
    kooshy

    “I dont know what “Karamat Ensani” is/mean to begin with”

    It means combination of “dignity of morality for having humanly tolerance, giving and forgiveness”

    Criticizing is not what is not what we are talking here I asked you very pointed direct questions on your opinions with regard to state of Israel

    Here are the questions asked of you FYI, Nasser , and Smithy boy

    Do you think state of Israel is an apartheid state?

    Do you think creation and recognition of state of Israel by the western powers on Palestinian land occupied by British was fair and justified?

    Do you approve the current treatment and conduct of Israel on Palestinians?

  338. nico says:

    Well, well…

    In France from September first it will be forbiden to pay cash for transaction above 300eur…
    That is to say thd state wanna control ALL transaction !
    Nice isn’t it ?

    is that not the definition of the police state ?

    The Queer would argue about the rule of law !

    Well wd are gay marriage here.

    Rule of law, isn’t it ?

  339. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    Again you could not hardly have missed what I have said about Israel on this site and that is not positive in any sense.

  340. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think Obama’s team have seen Isis as the “bad guys” all along. Isis is slaughtering the Syrian rebels who have some support in the West.

  341. James Canning says:

    Kosshy,

    First country to recognize Israel was the Soviet Union, if I recall correctly.

  342. James Canning says:

    Nasser,

    You are spouting nonsense when you claim “westerners” see people in the Middle East as “animals”. Rubbish.

  343. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Have you been to the US? To North Korea?

  344. kooshy says:

    Karl that’s not the answer to the very direct questions ( Ahmadinijad questions) I asked.
    You see, for you Hasbara spreading boys this questions is like the cross for Dracula, you are doomed to get exposed if you answers or not. This time you should blame FYI and his trip to land of “Karamat Ensani” which you and him and your other acts here can’t and wouldn’t want talk about.

  345. kooshy says:

    James Canning says:
    August 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Gav James

    Unlike Europeans Iranians throughout their history have correctly considered Russians as Europeans / Westerners
    Although during the iron curtain period when Iran was allied with the west she was referring to USSR as the eastern power this was only because literary east was in direct opposite of the west.

  346. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    You can search this site and get to know all I have said about Israel.
    I wonder what you want to say though, whats your main argument here?

  347. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    August 21, 2014 at 4:13 pm

    “Have you been to the US? To North Korea?”

    No need to visit those countries facts speak by themselves.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

    How unfortunate. NK has no official rate !

    Until proven otherwise by FACTS, the US remain the worst police state on earth…. By a WIDE margin.

  348. nico says:

    If wanna compare with NK as some kind of standard… Up to you.
    Howver not sure it is somewhat relevant in the case I am bringing up.

  349. nico says:

    But that is surely the advantage of the so called rule of law !

    Laughable…

  350. nico says:

    https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/iran-says-wants-progress-nuclear-talks-action-islamic-164517636.html

    Amusing cat and mouse play.

    After the west supported takifiri against the resistance front turned uncontrolable and threatens Kuwait, Irak oil supplies and will likely dind a lifz of their own and turns against KSA and US interests… Iran states that no help shall be provided as long as the nuclear file is kot closed…

  351. yk says:

    Target: Closet Zionists and fifth columnist on GTT.
    Weapon: KOOSHY – NUKE.

    The siren is wailing time for the hasbara touting crowds to run for cover because KOOSHY – NUKE is inbound, but unfortunately for them this time around there is no bunker deep and strong enough to shield them.

    Report: Total destruction.

    I wish I could see their pathetic faces after impact. Lol

  352. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 21, 2014 at 4:28 pm

    Look all it now matters is that you and the other hasbara boys here including fyi, which now prefers not to reply till things subside away, are refusing to even condone the illegal Israeli entity for her crimes and conducts. As is now demonstrated, you guys even refuse to acknowledge and name Israel’s inhuman dignity and lack of any ” Karamat Ensani” with killing of more than 2000 innocent defenseless girls, boys and women, in just two weeks. So as your body Smith likes to say (you mofos, C sucker’s criminal cult hasbaras) in spite of these crimes by the entity you support and refuse to condone, want and dare to come here on this site and preach us for lack of human dignity and incapability of scientific progress in Iran and other Muslim countries for killing innocents? Go and see if you can find any “Karamat Ensani” to be ashamed of yourselves.

  353. Karl.. says:

    kooshy

    Search this site, I if anyone have criticized Israel on this site. Do you have argument because I only see smearing from you. I give you one more chance to make a comment.

  354. Karl.. says:

    yk

    I advise you to follow your own words, this is what you have said earlier:


    yk says:
    February 3, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    This forum as been created to enlighten people’s mind I believe. But some have made it a venue for personal vendetta. Please people keep your emotion in check and refrain from obscene languages, at least as a sign of respect for the host of this great site. Some might say they are enjoying their right to freedom of speech, such people would do well to realize that kids might be reading these comments. Please let us think of the impact of our action on others and let us not be the very thing we claim to be clamouring against. Thanks

    http://goingtotehran.com/the-year-of-iran-tehrans-challenge-to-american-hegemony-in-2014-leveretts-in-the-world-financial-review#comment-35000

  355. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    You have an unusual conception of what constitutes a “police state”.

  356. James Canning says:

    Interesting observations by Hugo Rifkind, in The Times (London) Aug. 12th: “Believe in a two-state solution? You’re a Zionist. Strive for a bi-national state? Also a Zionist.”

  357. kooshy says:

    A good professional hasbara propagandist should know how far and how much he/she can push and demonize before they encounter and get the same question with regard to the conduct of the entity he she is supporting , at least for a while fyi knew how to behave and conduct himself, so not to get cornered too bad, but recently he became too sure of himself and became careless, and some of us here, really became tired of his continued ping ponging BS with Smith and Nasser, so it was time to expose him and his supporting cabal.

    Now that real allegiance are exposed is ok to make any comments and opinion on Iran and Muslims they wish to make. To the rest of real bloggers here on this site, I apologies for the use of language and the pressure that became of essence.

  358. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    August 21, 2014 at 6:44 pm

    “You have an unusual conception of what constitutes a “police state”.”

    My conception is based on FACTS.
    Yours is based on arrogance tainted ideology.

  359. fyi says:

    All:

    A good summary of Mr. Obam’s actions in the Near East:

    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/21/behind-obamas-chaotic-foreign-policy/

  360. kooshy says:

    nico says:
    August 21, 2014 at 3:41 pm
    “In France from September first it will be forbiden to pay cash for transaction above 300eur…”

    I know after the austerity taxes a lot of transactions are going under the table,

    There is no way to control this, we soon should witness personal bank deposits to droop, and cash transactions will happen without recording or receipts. It’s Frances thrived recession in 5 years not a lot of people will and can hold any longer.

    Austerity crippling growth: Hollande
    He makes about turn on recovery from Europe’s long debt crisis
    http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/premium/world/austerity-crippling-growth-hollande-20140822

  361. yk says:

    Karl

    Do you think the comment was meant for you zionist apologists? Lol!!

    I was trying to reason with human beings on this forum and not hasbara boys who are out to belittle and attack the foundation of my belief, led by the old fool Fyd. Do you think I want to reason with you guys after your intent as become obvious, you ask for it and you shall get.

    Now you are seriously desperate for a way out after the success of the first attempt to annihilate you, I will only treat you the way you deserve until I perceived that your humanities as been restored, though I doubt it will ever be. You are rotten to the core and to compare you with animal is debasing for animals.

  362. yk says:

    Please for the reasonable people on this forum I will want to repeat my comment.

    yk says :
    February 3, 2014 at 5:23 pm
    This forum as been created to enlighten people’s mind I believe. But
    some have made it a venue for personal vendetta. Please people
    keep your emotion in check and refrain from obscene languages, at
    least as a sign of respect for the host of this great site. Some might
    say they are enjoying their right to freedom of speech, such people
    would do well to realize that kids might be reading these comments.
    Please let us think of the impact of our action on others and let us
    not be the very thing we claim to be clamouring against. Thanks

    http://goingtotehran.com/the-year-of-iran-tehrans-challenge-to-
    american-hegemony-in-2014-leveretts-in-the-world-financial-
    review#comment-35000

  363. kooshy says:

    Since today’s Kyhan editorial is related to discussion we had Human rights /Dignity (Kramat Ensani) in US I thought for Persian readers including some of our own Hasbara boys it would be interesting to read since they refused to discuss and expand on the subject of universality of human dignity in US and Israel.

    1- تقریبا در تمام طول عمر سی و چند ساله انقلاب اسلامی، «حقوق بشر» جزو اصلی‌ترین دستاویزهای آمریکا برای تحت فشار قرار دادن کشورمان بوده است.جهت اثبات این ادعا، نیازی به کنکاش برای یافتن مصادیق نیست. همه می‌دانیم، آمریکایی‌‌ها به هر مسئله‌ای در کشورمان–کوچک و بزرگ، مثبت یا منفی- به عنوان یک «فرصت» نگریسته و برای تبدیل کردن آن به «تهدید» از هیچ اقدامی دریغ نکرده‌اند. حقوق بشر هم یکی از این مسائل است.
    موضع‌گیری‌های تند و خارج از عرف دیپلماتیک، تهدید، تحریم، تبلیغ و… از جمله واکنش‌هایی هستند نشات گرفته از یک کینه عمیق و ریشه‌دار که به بهانه نقض حقوق بشر، از سوی بزرگترین ناقض حقوق بشر هیچ گاه حتی برای لحظه‌ای علیه کشورمان متوقف نشده است.این کشور در همین یک سالی که دولت روحانی روی کار آمده و با وجود کسب امتیازات فراوان در برنامه هسته‌ای کشورمان – که ادعا می‌کرد، نگران آن است – نیز، روی حقوق بشر، بیش از گذشته و به طور ویژه متمرکز شده است چرا که اساسا «حقوق بشر» در سیاست خارجی آمریکا و در برخورد با کشورهای مستقلی مثل ایران، همواره یک اصل و محور محسوب می‌شود.
    اما «حقوق بشر» در خود آمریکا نیز داستانی دارد خواندنی. بخوانید:
    اصطلاح «منشور حقوق بشر» اصولا به سه سند مصوب یعنی «اعلامیه جهانی حقوق بشر»، «میثاق بین‌المللی حقوق مدنی و سیاسی» و «میثاق بین‌المللی حقوق اقتصادی، اجتماعی و فرهنگی» اشاره دارد که در هر سه، آمریکا از بانیان اصلی تصویب آنها بوده اما این کشور «عملا» به هیچ یک از این اسناد در بدو تصویب نپیوسته است. آمریکا با گذشت سال‌ها و با اعمال حق شرط‌های فراوان، این اسناد حقوق بشری را تصویب کرده است.
    به عنوان نمونه، «میثاق بین‌المللی حقوق مدنی و سیاسی» در دسامبر 1966 و با تلاش‌های گسترده آمریکا در سازمان ملل به تصویب رسید اما تا سال‌ها کنگره این کشور مانع از پیوستن آمریکا به این میثاق می‌شد، تا آن که با گذشت بیش از 30 سال و در اکتبر 1997 پیوستن به این میثاق در آمریکا تصویب شد آن هم با اعمال 5 نوع رزرو (Reservations)، 5 بیانیه تفسیری (Understandings) و 3 اعلامیه (Declarations) برای کنوانسیونی که تنها 50 ماده دارد!
    در ماده 20 همین کنوانسیون آمده است: «هر گونه‌ دعوت‌ (ترغيب‌) به‌ كينه‌ (تنفر) ملي‌ يا نژادي‌ يا مذهبي‌ كه‌ محرك‌ تبعيض‌ يا مخاصمه‌ يا اعمال‌ زور باشد به‌ موجب‌ قانون‌ ممنوع‌ است‌.»
    جالب آنکه دولت آمریکا در سند تصویبی خود که در مجموعه اسناد سازمان ملل در دسترس است، با اعمال رزروی نسبت به همین ماده میثاق اعلام تحفظ کرده، یعنی خود را ملزم به پذیرش آن ندانسته است
    http://kayhan.ir/fa/news/21752

  364. Nasser says:

    Europe should defend US Navy’s rights to harass countries in their own territorial waters and especially so against China

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-vs-america-the-freedom-navigation-debate-11116

  365. Amir says:

    Dear kooshy and Basiji brother,
    I promise this would my firs and last “analysis”, but I stumbled upon this article from Asia Times Online, see link: {http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-01-010814.html}, and one part really struck me:

    “That led directly to the rise of what became the main protagonist of globalization, China. Under president Bill Clinton, the United States in the 1990s had an ambiguous and imprecise foreign policy on China. After the 1989 crackdown in Tiananmen Square, many common Chinese had come to think of Americans as the true defenders of their interests, against a Chinese government keen on cracking down on its people.
    However, the Clinton administration forfeited the past ideological commitment and it caused the collapse of the ideal bond with common Chinese people by raising the national issue of intellectual property rights.
    With a strong stand on the issue of infringement of intellectual property rights, America hit out at small and medium-sized Chinese companies, often founded by individuals who admired Americans.
    This transformed the sentiment of the common people in China and started to create an objective distance between America and China not due to ideology or ideals but because Chinese “pirating” companies were defended by their own government and attacked by a foreign government with which they sympathized.”
    I was wondering whether all that has been going on here (Going to Tehran, Race for Iran, et cetera), is an attempt to avoid making the same mistakes that the US made regarding China; could you please elaborate on this?

  366. A concerned world citizen says:

    So I saw Chuck Hagel blowing a lot of gas and hot air about how “WE” face an imminent threat from ISIS – No sh*t, Sherlock!!! I almost fell off my chair with laughter but had to recompose myself to regain my balance.

    A few weeks ago, these same ISIS/ISIL/Nusra/Islamic front were labeled the moderate/cuddly terrorist group in Syria and therefore deserved every support they could get to overthrow that “evil dictator”, Mr. Assad. Of course, they propped up the moderate image/credentials of this ISIS/ISIL/Islamic front/Nusra front terrorists group with the non-existent FSA who happens to be the secular,sales pitch arm of the hundreds of different Sunni jihadi extremist spread across Syria.

    Geography is everything, dammit!!! As the ISIS/ISIL gained a bit of power in Syria’s Raqqa, they suddenly decided the develop a brain of their own and expand on their own agenda – Islamic Caliphate (What’s not to like?). So they saw an opening right across the border in Iraq and jumped on it. This is like how the Taliban developed a mind of their own after the US helped them against the Soviets and established their “Islamic Caliphate” by blowing up ancient Buddhist statues that dates back several thousands of years.

    Now the ISIS is not only threatening the US to “drown them in blood”, they’re also threatening US bought and paid for “allies” in the region. You gotta love this!!!

    In the meantime, people are being shot in the streets of the land of the free, home of the brave for simply not paying bus fairs or having mental problems. Enjoy :^)

  367. Sineva says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 21, 2014 at 12:00 pm
    Agreed,its lowering the tone of the whole site

  368. fyi says:

    Sineva & Karl:

    Regretfully, I must say that it has been my experience that I often experienced verbal abuse – and some time physical attacks – by my Iranian interlocutors.

    This has been a constant over many decades – eventually many Iranians start swearing….

  369. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 9:24 am

    German autoban of/off ramps famously are easy to confuse and often cars used to wind up getting on the highway traveling on the wrong side. They even have a name for it: Geister Fahrers (Ghost Driver).

    Anyways, there’s joke that goes something like this:

    A guy driving on an autoban hears an alert on the radio: one ghost driver reported on the section of highway he is on. He shouts back at the radio: What, only one ghost driver? There are hundreds of them!

    fyi, What you and your cohorts say is wrong, deeply insulting, misogynistic, racist, intolerant and elitist to the extreme. I suspect you thrive on folk’s negative reactions to your tripe, which you then cite as affirming your silly thesis on Iran, Muslims, women, Nigerian blacks, etc.

    In fact, it should affirm that you, yes you, are the ghost driver.

  370. fyi says:

    BiBiJon says:

    August 22, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Funny you mention Germany.

    I think it was 1978 when in Mainz two groups of Iranian students attacked each other because of their differing political ideas on how to reorganize the Iranian state and polity.

    And you yourself are proof positive of the veracity of what I said; for you wrote: “…you and your cohorts say is wrong, deeply insulting, misogynistic, racist, intolerant and elitist to the extreme…”

    I live in a place called Reality – or so I hope to God – where do you live?

  371. BiBiJon says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 9:58 am

    “I think it was 1978 when in Mainz two groups of Iranian students attacked each other because of their differing political ideas on how to reorganize the Iranian state and polity.”

    Again, you are drawing a general conclusion based on a particular event, which of course is no more common place among disagreeing Iranians when the the stakes are high, i.e. blood on the streets of Tehran, than anywhere else. http://parliamentfights.wordpress.com/

    “And you yourself are proof positive of the veracity of what I said”

    Oh, to disagree (vehemently) with you is my bad, but you disagreeing with me is good. Thanks for the clarification.

    “I live in a place called Reality – or so I hope to God – where do you live?”

    Wherever I’m least likely to encounter a ghost driver screaming at the radio.

  372. kooshy says:

    “Regretfully, I must say that it has been my experience that I often experienced verbal abuse – and some time physical attacks – by my Iranian interlocutors.”
    “I think it was 1978 when in Mainz two groups of Iranian students attacked each other because of their differing political ideas on how to reorganize the Iranian state and polity.”

    Yet again another attempt to scape to Karbala Sahara , this an what you try to derail was not the intend or porpose of the yesterday’ descussion , “one side couldn’t tolorate an opposing view” that is trying to redirect the discussion.
    What was the intend of the discussions yesterday, which you and your cohorts failed , refused to even answer 3 question asked, was to prove weather your demonization , cretisizing of iran and iranians is due to the extream love concerns you have for Iran or another illigal ocuping child killer entity meaning Israel. If you guy’s porpose of demonizing iran is because you think it saves israel, fine do as much as you wantand like, but don’t try o hide it and be sniky that got me boared. Now that the cover came off, if you guys still want to continueand play fine, if not , and don’t finded not worthed any more, that’s fine too.

  373. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 22, 2014 at 11:14 am

    When I am voicing a criticism of Iranian practices, it is out of benevolence and the desire to improve the situation there – especially for the young people.

    Iran, just like the United States or many other countries, suffers from many self-inflicted wounds.

    I have endeavored to point out a few of them.

    Whether Israelis are good or bad is immaterial to this discussion – they killed 200 people in Gaza and yet self-proclaimed self-righteous Sunni Muslims have been murdering Muslims – Shia or Sunni – in Syria, in Lebanon, in Iraq, in Pakistan, and in Afghanistan.

    Whose fault is that, Israelis?

  374. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 11:28 am

    “When I am voicing a criticism of Iranian practices, it is out of benevolence and the desire to improve the situation there – especially for the young people.

    Again the intend of exercise yesterday which you and other Hasbara byes failed and didn’t or couldn’t the Dracula test, was to show if your real true motif for demonizing Iran and the Muslims was as you claim your love and concern for them or if you have other intentions and allegiances. In first case is fine and understandable to criticize, but if you are doing for other purpose you need to have a disclaimer, and if you don’t put one up it means you are snaky and not honest. Look body people here are not child’s that you think you can treat them like one, for you and your body’s we need to hear your ideas and opinions on parameters of Karamat Ensani in the child murdering illegal entity of Israel, please tell us if you see any Karamat Ensani there, at one point you will have to address these questions.

    Look this how and the limit that Hasbras writers are allowed to write and criticize Israel

    Whether Israelis are good or bad is immaterial to this discussion – they killed 200 people in Gaza, and yet self-proclaimed self-righteous Sunni Muslims have been murdering Muslims – Shia or Sunni – in Syria, in Lebanon, in Iraq, in Pakistan, and in Afghanistan.”

    Put the mask away and lets debate all you want, on Israel, west Iran and let see where there is more Karamat Ensani, do you care to do that this mean unlike what you want and suggest we will not just focus on one place and religion, like what you have been doing and want to do, but we will expand to Israel, west and their behavior, treatment and relations toward other defenseless people. That is the only way going forward meaning everything is in play.

  375. yk says:

    Here’s one of their definition of Karamat Ensan

    http://resistance-episteme.tumblr.com/

  376. James Canning says:

    Najmeh Borzorgmehr has a fine report in today’s Financial Times, on the water crisis in Iran.

  377. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    August 22, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    I didn’t know until very recently that the Belgians were so benevolent that when they were done with the Congolese, half of them had been wiped off the face of the earth (estimated around 10 million people). And they did this in the name of a “Civilization Mission”, because the Congolese were primitive, and it wasn’t fair to leave them to themselves. Now I don’t mention that the Belgians used to chop off the hands of spouses and children of those workers in rubber plantations who weren’t able to meet the quota [allotted to them].
    I’m sure fyd can absolve them because they were westerners with good intentions.

  378. James Canning says:

    Concerned,

    One reason Obama did not provide heavy weapons to “moderate” rebels in Syria, was his concern those weapons would fall into the hands of Islamic extremists (Isis).

  379. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    How many political prisoners are there in the US? A handful? A few hundred? And in North Korea? Scores of thousands? More?

  380. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    And Iranian soldiers massacred Muslims & Hindus & Sikhs in Delhi when that city had been conquered by the late Nader Shah.

    Go to Teflis/Tiblisi and visit their famous cathedral there.

    Right in front of the door is a monument to their greatest poet; whom the Georgians claim was thrown from the steeple of that cathedral by the Iranian soldiers.

  381. kooshy says:

    yk says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Yes, as an exercise, I think we should invite, encourage and ask to hear from everyone on this blog, their opinion and discussions on the parameter, equations and exercise of Karamat Ensani (or for that matter Hevani) in Israel, US and their client states ( what is self-claimed as international community) toward the non-westerners and white Europeans. Let see if our hasbara boys would or dare to participate and give us their true beliefs on this regard, since as they have claimed the self-claimed international community should also be subject to “Universality of Human dignity”, unless they think once again the Israel/West’s exceptionalism is justified and should kicks in.

  382. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    Neither Nader nor Agha Mohammad Khan did these things in the name of Islam or Islamic Republic or People of Iran or anything that we represent and stand for.
    On the other hand, the Belgians did commit those atrocities in the name of educating the “primitives of Africa”; their method of teaching and preaching was somewhat questionable, because those Congolese somehow managed to die, en mass.

  383. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    And Belgians killed the Africans under what excuse? Liberal Democracy? Freedom? Christianity? Monarchy?

    In fact, Belgians removed that mad king; under the pressure of the English people.

  384. James Canning says:

    Are Russian soldiers in Ukraine, firing artillery at Ukrainian forces?

  385. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    I assume you are aware Obama gets attacked time and time again, for failing to endorse American “exceptionalism”.

  386. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    Yes and Alexander the great killed zillion Iranians 2000 years ago, and Attila killed trillion so and so, WTF that has to do with killing over 2000 innocent Palestinian (little 2 month old) girls, boys and women in two weeks in this “universality of human dignity era” which indeed you and your body’s refuse (can’t) to discuss if the Israelis and their supporting partners are exercising their maximum Karamat Ensanie., Why do you think you could or should escape this question and others I asked.

    To other guys here, please let focus on Karamat Ensani in current era and with regard to Israel and her Western supporters.

    James Canning says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    I assume you are aware Obama gets attacked time and time again, for failing to endorse American “exceptionalism”.

    Gav James

    Cut the horse shit and please behave today,
    You remember Obama’s speech in which Putin wrote an article in NYT ridiculing him on his continued claim on his believe in “American exceptionalism”
    Is Obama related in any way that you find it necessary to make up BS stories in his support? But you being the Gav it’s ok to shove a pile of that stuff up in the attic.

  387. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    As you purposefully chose to ignore what I said, the Belgians did all of those things, because they thought they had a mission to bring the Africans out of barbarism and into the realm of European progressiveness. And good for Belgians that Leopold I was deposed; it would be awesome if you would let go of your neo-colonialism. But I’m not betting on that happening, anytime soon.

  388. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    August 22, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    I’m sorry, you’re right. Let’s focus on what these “gentlemen” have to say about the upholding of Human Dignity by Israel and the United States.

  389. kooshy says:

    Thanks راه ندید، در بره

  390. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    “How many political prisoners are there in the US? A handful? A few hundred? And in North Korea? Scores of thousands? More?”

    Exactly my point.
    Who are you to judge what is good or not ?
    And why in this country such category of people should go to jail, and in that country another category of people should go to jail ?
    What is the definition of political prisoner ?
    Are not people dealing substances political prisoners ? Maybe in your eyes they worth less ?
    And who is judge of the worth and merit of people ?
    You old fart ? Or the other old queer ?

    At the end if the day a police state is a state needing to control its population through represive means.
    As such the US are the worth police state on earth.
    That is undeniable FACT no matter how you spin it.

    Wanna see US history of wormongering crimes and supporting terrorists in the ME, South America and other places ?
    Wanna see Western European atrocity in China for decades ?
    Wanna see Western European colonial behaviour in Africa ?

    The other wanna comfortable life queer is in extasy in front of the US but the US are the worth criminal and wormegering state in the world.
    And you are producing one liner crap here by the tens every day and stating that this cpuntry is bad, and that country has a dictator, and they need to be tamed.

    You both old criminal and disgusting fool.

    As I said few thread ago. The US has wealth and military power.
    It is their ONLY merit.

    FACTS on the ground prove that only both your arrogance tainted ideology is warping the TRUTH.

    And as such you and the other one are only sold out, traitors and maybe clash of civilizational supremacist.
    No more. No less.

    As I said here few years ago there is nothing to discuss with your kind.

    You only deserve to be taken care of.

  391. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 22, 2014 at 2:10 pm

    I completely disagree; Belgian were there for plunder.

    Later, their Mad King, conceived the idea of emptying Congo of Africans so Europeans could inhabit it.

    There was nothing about mission civilisatrix about it.

    And the Mad King was deposed, again, due to the anger of the English people.

  392. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    Great! Now that this issue has been resolved, let’s hear your opinion about what Israelis have done to preserve Human Dignity in the Gaza strip.

  393. yk says:

    Kooshy

    I think we need not wait any longer, we got our answer.

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:23 pm
    Amir says:
    August 22, 2014 at 1:13 pm
    And Iranian soldiers massacred Muslims & Hindus & Sikhs in Delhi
    when that city had been conquered by the late Nader Shah.
    Go to Teflis/Tiblisi and visit their famous cathedral there.
    Right in front of the door is a monument to their greatest poet;
    whom the Georgians claim was thrown from the steeple of that
    cathedral by the Iranian soldiers.”

    This is what we are dealing with, one definition of Karamat Ensan for the Western world another definition of Karamat Ensan for the others, and we have to accept this because who are we not to.

    The IRI committed an unforgivable crime when it decided to revolt against this prevailing norm in the western imposed international order, especially by giving equal voice to the westoxicated elites and the bricklayers. Then people like Fyd decided to sell out and once they discovered that all they had dreamed of about the west was just a mirage the bitterness they felt couldn’t be overcome and they held the IRI responsible for their change of fortunes and would do anything to see to its destruction.

    Alas the IRI keep going from strength to strength and no amount of hasbara could diminish the achievements of this great revolution of the bricklayers and downtrodden and the humane elites.

  394. yk says:

    Amir

    You can try but I don’t believe you will ever get any direct response from him because you are challenging the very foundation of his belief, the fall of man blah blah. But nevertheless let us try, so Fyi what has Israel done to preserve human dignity in the Gaza Strip?

  395. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 22, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    I respectfully decline; that subject is too trite and too unprofitable for me to discuss.

  396. fyi says:

    yk says:

    August 22, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Fall of Man is هبوط آدم

  397. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    “I respectfully decline; that subject is too trite and too unprofitable for me to discuss.”

    You mean you were lying and making money all these few years for demonizing my country, my culture, and my people, you Zionist pathetic troll AH go get lost.

  398. nico says:

    kooshy says:
    August 22, 2014 at 3:06 pm

    I am astonished that at last other people here than BiB, UU and myself are becoming aware of this criminal mind.
    As you said after few years…

  399. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 2:55 pm

    But I must insist. You said earlier that if Iran hadn’t been deprived of minds like yourself, it would have avoided many blunders. Enlighten us, with your perspectives on how Israelis upheld the core concepts of Human Dignity, which we all hold dear, in Gaza during the operation “Protective Edge”.

  400. nico says:

    “The U.S. Launched 201 Out of the 248 Armed Conflicts Since the End of WWII

    Around 90% of all deaths in war are civilians:
    “The proportion of civilian deaths and the methods for classifying deaths as civilian are debated, but civilian war deaths constitute 85% to 90% of casualties caused by war, with about 10 civilians dying for every combatant killed in battle.”

    Swanson notes: “A top defense of war is that it must be used to prevent something worse, called genocide. Not only does militarism generate genocide rather than preventing it, but the distinction between war and genocide is a very fine one at best.”The U.S. launched 201 out of the 248 armed conflicts since the end of WWII:

    “Since the end of World War II, there have been 248 armed conflicts in 153 locations around the world. The United States launched 201 overseas military operations between the end of World War II and 2001, and since then, others, including Afghanistan and Iraq ….”

    Amir says:
    August 22, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    In truth you are too kind with the queer criminal mind.
    Israel is an apartheid state, but also only an outgrowth of the Anglo-American polities as proven by continued history.

    In truth the Anglo-American are at the root of the issue. Israel is small business.
    And as I said time and again. The Anglo American empire is the alliance between the king and the European jews from the very start.
    That is known FACT and assumed Anglo American reality and shared responsibility.

    Why not asking about Human dignity and minimum decency ?
    I mean the US police state and criminal wormongering policies.

    The kind he hugged few decades ago and from where he is blattering about muslim killing muslims…
    Not that white never killed white… Laughable.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/90-deaths-war-civilians.html

  401. kooshy says:

    Nico Jaan I like many others here for a longtime new he is Zionist troll, and what his purpose (job) here is, but I always thought his useless agenda driven comments like that of Gav’ are numerous to keep the site going and busy so it invited and brings others here to also have a chance to read real Iranians comments and concerns on US foreign policy on Iran.

    But, as his usual he got carried away in and with his own shit and couldn’t let go of it.

    By no mean this is the first time he got cut,a while back M.Ali got him cut, but as he admitted he profits for demonizing Muslims and his birth country. No shame in that.

  402. nico says:

    Canning

    Did you read that ?

    “Swanson notes: “A top defense of war is that it must be used to prevent something worse, called genocide. Not only does militarism generate genocide rather than preventing it, but the distinction between war and genocide is a very fine one at best.””

    Now tell us all here whether Obama and US adminstration are not aware of such OBVIOUS AND BASIC FAC ?

    As a consquence, do you think Obama, Sarkozy and Cameon regret anything in Lybia ?

    Surely they regret nothing as the consequences of military intervention there were crystal clear from the very start.

    You are a proven troll, sophist and liar.

    Disgusting arrogant supremacist and excptionalist you are.
    .

  403. Amir says:

    nico says:
    August 22, 2014 at 3:52 pm
    I assure you, by no means I meant to be kind to him.
    Also, might I add that the US has been resorting to imprisonment without trial, torture, espionage on US citizens, authorizing killing US citizens without due process, procedures associated with police states.
    I left out the “Patriot Act”, upon which you could write books.

  404. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Apparently Obama sees the western military intervention in Libya as having been a mistake. I would not be surprised if Cameron thinks so too.

  405. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Who started the Korean War? Answer: North Korea, with help from the USSR. Purpose?
    Conquest of South Korea. NOT “genocide”.

  406. James Canning says:

    Writing in the Spectator August 9th, Hugo Rifkind noted that in his previous piece in that newspaper (magazine) he had stated that Israel, “once so familiar to European sensibilities, was starting to feel decidedly foreign.” Rifkind was attacked by Zionists AND by pro-Palestinian activists.

  407. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Leopold II of Belgium, who personally owned the Congo, was in it for the loot. When the Belgian state took control, conditions improved considerably.

  408. Khomeini says:

    As anybody read this? If not, please do. It is quite a comedy !! How quickly west changes its position !!!!

    http://rt.com/uk/182108-uk-assad-alliance-isis/

  409. fyi says:

    Khomeini says:

    August 22, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    They are caught in their own spider web of tricks and conspiracies.

    Any way, UK Foreign Minister rejected cooperation with Mr. Assad’s government.

    My sense of it is that Americans and Europeans still believe that they could use ISIS against the Shia Crescent.

    That could change but I do not see any indication of that yet.

  410. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 22, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    Somehow very conveniently whenever you don’t want to make your stance about something clear, you just happen to find the excuse to circumvent that question.
    Could you stop this shenanigan about “mad king” and “fall of man” and “axis against shias” for a second, and tell us
    YOUR OPINION ABOUT ISRAELIS AND THEIR ACTIONS IN THE GAZA STRIP, AND THEIR EFFECTS ON HUMAN DIGNITY OF THE GAZANS.

  411. nico says:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-22/chart-us-police-force-does-not-want-you-see

    Civilian killed by police shooting during one year :
    – UK: 0
    – Japan: 0
    – Germany : 8
    – USA : 409

    Mmmmh, how many in Iran ?

    No comment…

  412. yk says:

    nico says:

    August 23, 2014 at 1:47 am

    Still Muslims are not safe in their person and property in Muslim majority nations but are safe in the USA. Some madness simply has no remedy lol.

  413. yk says:

    This is how the bricklayers are managing their revolution.

    http://en.mehrnews.com/detail/News/103710

  414. M. Ali says:

    The biggest problem I have with fyi and ilk is the problem that has existed from western countries for a few generations at least. That is, apparently, non-white can’t decide their own destinity, and it is up to the benevent white people to help us out.

    I hate the liberal westerner more than the conservative one. Because the latter is at least honest when he tries to screw you. Liberals, such as fyi, are actually convinced that when they are screwing you, its for your own good.

  415. M. Ali says:

    And let me explain something about name-calling and insults.

    I’ll use an example.

    To shout at someone, “your mom is a whore!” is insulting. But whats even more insulting is to sit calmly and politely, and go on and on about how the person’s father sometimes takes in financial incentives for providing the services of his wife and daughters to strangers for sexual gratifications, and then, without any proof of the former accusation, then lectures the person on how that should not happen.

    That’s much worse. And if the accused gets angry and says, “What are you saying, you fuck??”, then someone like fyi will will feign shock and surprise and go, “You people always resort to name calling.”

    This kind of attitude either kinds from a person who is willingly lying or is so extremely disillusioned that he actually thinks his comments are not offensive and his talk is out of a good, pure heart.

    I’d be thrilled and happy if fyi was some kind of secret Israeli lover, becuase it would be much more honest. But my fear and concern is that fyi can not fanthom how wrong and offensive he is to the people he calls his countrymen. The saddest thing about all of this is, not that he hates Iran, but that he THINKS he loves Iran. Its the scary story of the rapist who thinks the victims enjoy it, the pedophile who thinks he cares and loves the 8 year old he has sex with, the wife beater who feels like he is doing out of kindness for his wife, and the father who leaves his daughter black and blue bruises content that has been a good parent.

    Attacks that come from hate is bad, but attacks that come from a wrongly assumed love is a hundred times more evil.

  416. nico says:

    M. Ali says:
    August 23, 2014 at 2:59 am

    “And let me explain something about name-calling and insults.”

    Right to the point.
    That is not about harsh words.

    That is about ideological decency.
    They have none whatsoever.

  417. nico says:

    “On Friday, the White House called the group’s beheading of American journalist James Foley a “terrorist attack” against the United States, adding that Washington would not be “restricted to borders” in responding to terror threats emerging from the group, which is operating in Iraq and Syria.

    Ben Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama, hinted that any long-term strategy to confront ISIL has to “deal with both sides of the border” of Iraq and Syria.”

    http://edition.presstv.ir/iphone/detail.aspx?id=376279

    What a bunch of crap out of the US administration mouth.
    Not that ISIL should be defended. They should not.

    However the lack of logic ane the senseless rhetoric is amazing !

    A killing is a killing. No matter the way it is done.
    And a Human is similar to another Human.

    What about the apartheid state genocide against gazans ?
    What about the US wars here and there ?
    No killing, no crime, no terorism ?

    The US rational as explained by the US adminstration today is truly of the same material as the Bush administration.
    No logic, no standard. Only excuses and justifications.

    Why the westerners are unable to articulate policies with their real intentions and rational ?
    Is that democracy ?
    Is that respect of the citizens ?

    Iran or Russia leadership in that sense are much democratic and respectfull toward their own.

  418. Fiorangela says:

    Khomeini says:
    August 22, 2014 at 5:43 pm —

    fantasy re-write (fantasy is that situation that pertains when truthiness leaks out, or the Golden Rule is applied) —

    “Sir Malcolm Rifkind, one of the UK’s most senior MPs, told the Financial Times (FT) in an exclusive interview that the horrific murder[s] of American journalist, James Foley peace activists Furkan Dogan and Rachel Corrie, highlight the urgent need to take action against the extremist group Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) Zionist state (Israel/Zionistan, formerly Mandate Palestine), whose swift rise to power in the Middle East has remained largely unchecked financed and supported by Western intervention as is ISIL.

    While the militants have annexed vast swathes of territory in northern Iraq Palestine, their central power base remains in Syria Washington, DC.

    ISIS Zionistan need[s] to be eliminated and we should not be squeamish about how we do it,” Rifkind told the FT on Friday.

    Although he made it clear he does not support the Assad regime in principle, Rifkind reluctantly emphasized that “sometimes you have to develop relationships with people who are extremely nasty in order to get rid of people who are even nastier.” “

  419. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 23, 2014 at 1:27 am

    It is called Freedom of Speech – deciding when and what and how to talk – or not.

    But here is something for your thoughts:

    There is no Muslim state with the power – latent or apparent – that can break the Siege of Gaza.

    For that, you need a state that is nuclear-armed and has a powerful Navy.

    Look at the way the Russians broke the siege of Nonorossiya in Ukraine.

    That is what power means.

    You go ahead and damn Israel for as much as you like; it will make no material difference where in counts – alleviating the sufferings of he Palestinians.

  420. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 23, 2014 at 3:10 am

    NATO states are going to disregard the well-being of their own populations and indulge in the re-orientation of their politico-military machines against the Russia and the Chinese states.

    They are doing sot in a political, diplomatic, historical, and legal environment that is even worse than that which obtained in 1914 – there is not the institutional or the traditional structures that could mitigate the danger of war among great powers.

    [In 1914, there were, nevertheless war began…]

    They cannot even handle ISIS – their own creature….

  421. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    August 23, 2014 at 1:27 am

    Yes I second that call, I also like to hear how much fyi and his cohorts think they have fallen when they see the illegal entity they sport and refuse to condone for her killing of 2 year innocent girl regardless if Muslim states or anybody else can break the sewage (that is imposed on 2 year old girl getting her daily formula) and what martial an weapon is needed, you preacher show us how much man you are, where are your humanity, macho nuke loving piece of shits, like the rest of Zionist and Zionist supporters you have fallen in shit trench and lack any humanity, I for one don’t want to see you mention that stuff again or these questions will be asked again.

  422. Jay says:

    The Telegraph, like the good instrument of UK propaganda it is, attempting to reshape the history of ISIL:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11052919/How-Isil-is-funded-trained-and-operating-in-Iraq-and-Syria.html

  423. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 23, 2014 at 11:11 am

    It’s great to hear others are concerned with illegal and inhumane siege of Gaza imposed by the illegal and inhumane Zionist entity; as the Leader had suggested, arming willing parties in the West Bank [of River Jordan] could be a good start to alleviate problems of Palestinians.
    My point is, as someone who makes comments on a wide range of topics, from economics, to geopolitics, history, anthropology, science, technology, scientific method, culture, warfare, politics, human rights, history etc., for sure you have your opinions about HOW ISRAEL IS UPHOLDING HUMAN DIGNITY IN GAZA RIGHT NOW (never mind us, we would find a way to breach the siege; as we are talking, cargo planes loaded with 100 tons of humanitarian aid are waiting to head towards Cairo, and from there towards Rafah crossing).
    I invite you to practice your right of freedom of speech, by telling us several examples of WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING TO PROMOTE AND PRESERVE HUMAN DIGNITY OF GAZANS.

  424. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    August 23, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Yes exactly, after years of hearing “fall of man shit” from him which all along he lied of his real intention to this forum, we all are entitled to hear his opinion on the state of how tall the man in Israel are.

  425. kooshy says:

    The illegal entity of Israel that FYI and his cohorts refuse to condone or even criticize for killing 2 year olds, is the same country that is caging 1.8 million men women and children and bombing them hourly with the arms freely provided by the cradle of humanity meaning the west, but FYI says and want us to believe this is all fault of the innocent Palestinians that can’t brake the sage imposed by the country they /he support.
    You folks want to hear more fall of the man stories from this animal.

  426. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 23, 2014 at 11:19 am
    You are obviously concerned with the state of affairs in the Gaza strip, as all of us are (albeit, for different reasons). I’ve heard that Shlomi Eldar has suggested that electricity to Gaza should be cut entirely, to bring Hamas to its knees. We know that the power plant in Gaza was hit by artillery shells and currently it’s not operational. And we know that electricity is used for running water pumps and pumps in sewage system.
    How does Shlomi Eldar’s suggestions fit into the Human Dignity picture in Gaza?
    Per your previous statements, I concluded that the Zionist regime is cruelly destructing the infrastructure in the Gaza strip, systematically, to annihilate the Palestinians so it could absorb the Gaza Strip, the way it’s doing it in the West Bank, and it (Israel) doesn’t give a damn about those Palestinians, or their due share of Human Dignity, and we (Iranians) should intervene on their behalf.
    Correct me if I’m wrong.

  427. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    August 23, 2014 at 1:22 pm
    I must admit though, it’s partly the fault of those Palestinians who thought they could negotiate with the terrorists (Zionists) on what was essentially their rights.
    Obviously killing women and children was very easy and all the Israelis really excelled in doing, and when they got their butts handed to them by Hezbollah [in 2006], they started moaning and bitching about “terrorists” killing “harmless” IDF soldiers, who were on a “humanitarian” intervention in south Lebanon.
    I mean, you can’t deal with these people; you stand still, they’ll kill you; you try to defend yourself, and they’ll call you terrorists.

  428. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Tom Friedman of The New York Times this week had a column on the Syrian civil war, in which he noted that the “good” insurgents had no guarantee of prevailing in Syria, even if they had succeeded in overthrowing Bashar al-Assad. And that Obama was reluctant to arm the “good guys” because those weapons too likely would end up in the hands of the “bad guys”.

  429. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 23, 2014 at 1:31 pm

    Iran does not have the power to intervene of behalf of Gaza in a decisive manner.

    She does not have the naval and air assets to break that siege.

    Nor does she have the strategic protection that nuclear weapons confer on her – her leaders have stated that they do not need it.

    You draw your own conclusions…

    Russia, however, can break the siege of Novorossiya and NATO states cannot do a damn thing….

  430. Nasser says:

    fyi says: August 23, 2014 at 11:19 am

    “…there is not the institutional or the traditional structures that could mitigate the danger of war among great powers.”

    – But there were also no nuclear weapons in 1914.

    Although, just because the West can’t outright go to a shooting war doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy certain strategic advantages that makes them confident they can prevail in a new Cold War. Washington’s experience in the 20th century makes them too arrogant to see the problems in their own society and underestimate the cohesiveness of Russian, Chinese (or even Iranian) societies. They thus seriously believe in their ability to engineer societal collapse in these nations which is of course madness because all it would do for them is earn them the enmity of very many people that will have to defend themselves by pointing nukes at them. Not to mention more of this: http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/08/23/dog-walking-and-other-jobs-that-will-make-you-rich/
    I honestly don’t believe they have seriously calculated the costs and benefits of their plans. They are just too sure of victory.

    As far as Iran and similar countries are concerned it is important to remember the saying, When elephants fight it is the grass that suffers. The only way to stop playing the role of victim is to have one’s own strategic deterrence. And the worst possible situation to be in is like that of Iran, rich in resources but militarily too weak; making for a tempting target. American war theorists call such a situation “Provocation through weakness.” No seriously, I didn’t make that up!

  431. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The US and the EU have good relations with China. Crisis in Ukraine obviously is creating difficulties in relations with Russia.

  432. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind may be suggesting that having Bashar al-Assad remain in power in Syria is not an unacceptable outcome. You disagree?

  433. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 23, 2014 at 2:18 pm

    Tom Freidman is a journalist and not a strategist.

    He writes for Middle Class Americans like himself who are also equally clueless about the real – as opposed to the imagined – non-Western World.

    The brain-child for Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Donilon, Dr. Slaughter, and Dr. Dunn has resulted in what you see in Syria and now in Iraq – and I am not even counting the war’s effect on Iranian people.

    These people and their ilk in the European Union have succeeded in the creation of a civilizational war against Islam – or a big chunk of it as they have targeted the core area of Muslim Civilization.

    The same thinking will commit NATO states in two more civilizational wars – against Russia’s Orthodox Christianity and against China’s Sinic Civilization (or what is left of it).

    I just see madness in all of this….

  434. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 23, 2014 at 2:19 pm
    Only time would tell whether arming West Bank dwellers (and the mere threat of doing so) would lift the Gaza siege or not; I mean the Israelis should worry about that.
    I’m glad that you find the Zionists so abhorrent, too.
    Just one more thing, could you please tell us why do think Israelis are trampling the Human Dignity of people in Gaza?

  435. James Canning says:

    M. Ali,

    You seem a bit obsessed with skin color. Are you aware that South Asians were “honorary whites” in South Africa, under apartheid?

  436. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    William Hague came into the Foreign Office intending to improve Britain’s relations with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas. If possible. Sadly, Iranian mistakes helped to wreck his plan.

  437. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 23, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    You won’t get any arguments out of me; the time may yet come that Mr. Khamenei will have to drink from the poisoned chalice and order Iranian government to exit NPT and to turn Iran into a nuclear-armed state.

    I do not know when and from where the next war against Iran would be launched – Great Powers, historically, have been able to convince smaller and weaker states to attack this or that states on their behalf.

    In my opinion, Iran has no strategic protection if Pakistan – the rented whore of China, US and Saudi Arabia, decided to attack Iran because Axis Powers have so suggested.

    [We saw how Turkey has helped nurture the war in Syria – it was either that or collapse the Turkish economy through the refusal EU banks to extend credit.]

    But these US-EU planners must look at Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran to see that their coercive approaches – over many years – has not produced surrender but strategic defiance.

    In the case of the wars against Shia Crescent – now Axis Powers are in a situation that they have created a strategic threat against every state that is friendly to them in the Middle East in the form of ISIS (excepting Israel).

    Yet the leaders of Axis Powers (such as UK FM) still insist that ISIS, Iran, the Shia Militia in Lebanon, the Shia Militia in Iraq, and Syrian Arab Republic are enemies (of Axis Powers).

    I expect nothing less in their deliberate provocations against the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China.

    Ultimately, they have to either accept that they care about London or Los Angeles more that Taipei or Kiev – or watch tens of millions of their citizens dies during a nuclear war.

    In my opinion, Axis Powers will fail across this planet since they have no positive program – nothing like the Atlantic Charter of World War II vintage….

    Nothing…

  438. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 23, 2014 at 2:34 pm

    That is laughable.

    Mr. Hague refused to accept Iran the way she was and he closely adhered to the policies of the Mad King.

  439. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 23, 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Time has already told that Muslims states are impotent against Israel.

    Many by choice, some because they are rented by Axis Powers or by China or by someone else.

    From the war of 1948, to 1967, to 1973 to the present.

    You cannot break the siege of Gaza – that is an empirical fact.

    I outlined what would be needed to break the siege of Gaza; if you be serious, you would start acting on that.

  440. Karl.. says:

    About nuclear question

    Look how west get hysterical about Russia, but they dont dare doing anything against Russia. Why?
    Is it not because Russia is a nuclear/military supwerpower?
    Yes it is. This is also why Iran never should put down the idea of one day getting nukes.

  441. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 23, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    That is not a true statement.

    These Iranians were driving in a car with a couple of South Asian women and were stopped by the South African Police.

    The Iranians – who looked lighter than the South Asian women – produced their passports which indicated that they were in fact not White and could drive in the company of South Asian people.

  442. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I was referring to voting rights.

    Surely an Iranian passport did not state the holder was “non-white”.

  443. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Were Israelis “honorary whites” in South Africa?

  444. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 23, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    That is fine – but Iranians were not considered White and neither were South Asians – honorary or not.

  445. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 23, 2014 at 3:10 pm

    Jews were considered White.

  446. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You are simply mistaken about what William Hague’s INTENTIONS were, when he entered the Foreign Office. You prefer to ignore Iran’s mistakes, that wrecked Hague’s plans.

  447. Nasser says:

    James Canning,

    Actually Iran would be making a mistake if it resumes diplomatic ties with Britain.

  448. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 23, 2014 at 3:13 pm

    Mr. Hague’s intentions are immaterial – what he did was what mattered.

    He joined in waging the economic war against Iran which aimed at nothing less that evisceration of Iran’s social fabric through inducing of hyper-inflation; enhanced by such nasty and mean actions such as denial of cooking oil, medicine, spare parts for medical equipment etc.

    War was joined, his intentions be damned.

  449. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Yes, even if a Jew was “black” he was considered white. But an Iranian passport did not state that the holder of that document was “non-white”.

  450. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Iran wrecked Hague’s plans. This in my judgment was an Iranian blunder. And it was disastrous for Syria.

  451. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The notion of Iranians as “non-white” is in my view silly. I have been aware of many dozens of marriages between Iranians and Americans, Canadians, and Brits. Every marriage was to a “white”.

  452. Persian Gulf says:

    James Canning says:
    August 23, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8

    “…But when you read your speech, it’s tiring
    Enough is enough

    I’m covering my ears like a kid
    When your words mean nothing, I go la la la
    I’m turning up the volume when you speak
    ‘Cause if my heart can’t stop it,
    I find a way to block it, I go
    La la, la la la la la na na na na na
    La la na na, la la la la la na na na na na,
    I find a way to block it, I go
    La la, la la la la la na na na na na…”

  453. fyi says:

    All:

    Iraq:

    Before the Arab Nationalist and then the Americans got to it:

    http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/baghdad-was-beautiful-once-and-peaceful-and-prosperous-too/story-e6frfqc0-1227034546342?from=public_rss

    [The English were running the show at that time; when they left, the whole thing gradually dis-integrated.]

  454. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 23, 2014 at 5:00 pm
    Why would a Zionist like you care about Baghdad you should be concerned if Tel Aviv soon becomes like that, I don’t see much longer with newer missile Technology transferred from Iran, the Zionist baby killer entity that you really care for and support can with hold and maintain security. You don’t even have the dignity of a man to say why you think is ok to kill baby girls, you are the true fallen man.

    You don’t even have the Karamat heyvani ” dignity of an animal for thinking is not profitable for you to condone killing babies.

    Khak to saret

  455. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 23, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    A few years ago a Palestinian fighter killed a pregnant Israeli woman and her five children.

    Iranian papers that carried the story omitted to mention that fact – stated 6 Zionist Occupiers were killed by a Palestinian fighter.

    Likewise for a few Arab papers.

    There is a religious war for and in Palestine.

    In wars, people get killed.

  456. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The slaughter of the Iraqi royal family in 1958 was a bad thing for Baghdad.

  457. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 23, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    Yes there is war but is

    not about religion is about property, land , didn’t start because of religion it started because you guys and you British supported took and occupied others land. But fortunately like you lost in Lebanon and no longer can control and decorate there the same faith is becoming true with regard to Palestine, I am pleased that you are finally willing to take the fake Iranian mask of yours off.

    This makes it easier to debate the issues. In my opinion Israel can’t survive the neighborhood she is in.

  458. James Canning says:

    Persian Gulf,

    You apparently believe the catastrophe in Syria has no connection to Iranian mistakes. You simply are wrong.

  459. Persian Gulf says:

    James Canning says:
    August 23, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O1_3zBUKM8

    “…But when you read your speech, it’s tiring
    Enough is enough

    I’m covering my ears like a kid
    When your words mean nothing, I go la la la
    I’m turning up the volume when you speak
    ‘Cause if my heart can’t stop it,
    I find a way to block it, I go
    La la, la la la la la na na na na na
    La la na na, la la la la la na na na na na,
    I find a way to block it, I go
    La la, la la la la la na na na na na…”

  460. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 23, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    It is a religious war between Judaism and Islam – that can no longer be swept under the rug.

    At one time – 1920s and even as late as 1973 it was about things that were negotiable.

    Israelis deliberately destroyed the chances for Peace and Americans in their Love for All-Things-Israeli missed no opportunity to miss an opportunity for Peace.

    Unfortunately, the era of Peace-as-a-possibility ended by Mr. Clinton’s government and that of Cease-Fire-as-a-possibility by Mr. Obama’s government.

    Now, per Mr. Khamenei, we have entered the era of War-in-Gaza-War-in-West-Bank with no end in sight.

  461. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    August 23, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    “Sir Malcolm Rifkind may be suggesting that having Bashar al-Assad remain in power in Syria is not an unacceptable outcome. You disagree?”

    – – –

    What makes Sir Malcolm Rifkind suppose he has any say whatsoever in who leads Syria’s government?

    Did the Syrian government give him his knighthood?
    Is he a taxpayer and voter in Syria?

  462. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 23, 2014 at 8:40 pm

    If the Zionists look at it that way, it’s another proof of their attempt to “hijack” Judaism, a religion with which we (Iranians) have no quarrel, or Moses, who we consider a prophet (one of the five more prominent ones); per the Leader latest speech the Islamic Republic of Iran doesn’t envisage a vision in which Jewish people living in the Palestine would be massacred, but we endorse a political process [much like what happened in the Apartheid South Africa], through which all people living in the Palestine, and those from the Palestine [including the Palestinian refugees] could vote on the future of their desired government and the Islamic Republic of Iran would accept the outcome of that referendum.
    So, nice try to portray a picture of a religious war, but we don’t see it that way.

  463. kooshy says:

    Fyi

    Watch this video , looks like you guys are also losing the Hasbra wa really i don’t see controlling the media is and can work for much longer, considering the younger internet generation is not being so particular with Zionist controlled western media.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39485.htm

    this much is even being admitted from the main Israeli guy in charge of hasbara for Persian speakers, meaning Manooshe Amir , I found this report in Kyhan interesting don’t know if internaly you guys got this or not.

    انزجار گوینده سابق رادیو اسرائيل از کودک‌کشی صهیونیست‌ها (خبر ویژه)
    رادیو اسرائیل اعتراف کرد جنایت اخیر علیه مردم غزه آن قدر فضا را بر علیه رژیم صهیونیستی تنگ کرده که حتی همکاران سابق این رادیو نیز مجبور به بدگویی شده‌اند.
    منوشه امیر در این باره به یکی از عناصر ضد انقلاب اشاره کرده که اخیراً برای حفظ ظاهر مجبور شده به بدگویی از اسرائیل بپردازد. منوشه امیر در وب‌سایت رادیو اسرائیل می‌نویسد: بانوی فرهیخته‌ای که در کار نویسندگی شهره است و مورد احترام بسیار من، بانویی که در گذشته یکی از پیکارگران نستوه در راه آزادی ایران زمین بوده، به تقلید از آن «روشنفکران» جهانی که بدگویی از اسرائیل و تمجید و تجلیل از ترور حماس و جنایات جهاد اسلامی را مد روز و کارت ورودی به باشگاه «روشنفکران» می‌دانند، مقاله‌ای انتشار داده که مفاد آن نه تنها نشان ستیز با سیاست‌های دولت کنونی اسرائیل است، بلکه حتی حق موجودیت آن را نفی می‌کند و به تمجید از گروه‌های ترور فلسطینی می‌پردازد.
    وی اذعان می‌کند: «شاید اگر اسرائیل ستیزی به همین یک مقاله آن بانوی نویسنده فرهیخته ایرانی محدود می‌شد، می‌توانستیم آن را نادیده بگیریم. ولی شوربختانه این نوشتار یکی از صدها و شاید هزاران مقاله‌ای است که در یک ماه اخیر علیه اسرائیل در سراسر جهان و به زبان‌های گوناگون انتشار یافته است. این نویسنده که چند سال پیش از اسرائیل دیدن کرده و همه جا تأکید کرده بود که سرنوشت ایرانی و اسرائیلی با هم درآمیخته است در آخرین مقاله خود به موجودیت اسرائیل اعتراض می‌کند و می‌نویسد: 67 سال است که اسرائیلی‌ها نیمی از زادگاه فلسطینی را به سرقت برده‌اند».
    منوشه امیر این را هم نوشت: آن نویسنده که روزگاری با رادیو اسرائیل نیز همکاری داشت و نوشته‌هایش با صدای خود او از پشت همین میکروفون پخش می‌شد، در آخرین مقاله خود می‌نویسد «چرا یک بام و دو هوا؟ مگر نه آنکه کامیکازهای ژاپنی جان می‌دادند که به دشمن لطمه وارد کنند، و اکنون جانباز فلسطینی جان می‌دهد تا مردمش را از اسارت آزاد کند؟»… او استدلال دیگری نیز مطرح می‌کند و می‌نویسد «مگر نه این که جهودهای گتو نشین در برابر تهدید و تحقیر لهستانی‌های ستمگر دست به مقاومت زدند و «قهرمان» نام گرفتند ولی فلسطینی‌هایی که در برابر اسرائیل زورگو می‌ایستند «جنایتکار» محسوب می‌شوند؟».
    منوشه امیر همچنین با انکار قتل عام 2 هزار فلسطینی در جنایت اخیر که اغلب آنها زن و کودک بودند مدعی شد: اسرائیل قصد نابودی فلسطینی‌ها را ندارد و این آرزوی ما برای پسرعموهای(!) فلسطینی خود است که آنها کشور مستقل و شکوفا و آزاد داشته باشند(!!)

  464. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    August 24, 2014 at 12:43 am

    Amir- Hasbra propagandists like FYI and his crew on this site, for long time have been programed to portray the current war in Palestine as a religious war, a war between Judeo-Christens ( considering who Judas was) and Muslims , the reason for doing this is to try and actually broaden up their own struggle by involving the western Christian population against the Muslims, they rightly believe it’s not enough, easy, inexpensive and long term secure to just controlled and expensively buy just a few western governments, they believe by broadening up the war and making it a crusade they will have more chance of survival, ( they are willing to accept and host the christen Zionist even though the only reason christen Zionist want to keep the Jews only until Jesus’s resurrection this is because in their belief that will be the condition for Jesus’ return ) but in their view it will not become a crusade unless Christian westerners volunteer to protect the holy land. Out of no other choice other than constantly moving, they have made similar attempt and mistakes in the past, but unfortunately they have never learned from it , this is because usually their religion’ leadership gets stolen by ultra-Zionist nationalist. I have nothing against Jews or Jewish religion, but demonizing and sneaking and protecting obvious inhuman atrocities, kind of behavior fyi and his friends shows unfortunately and unfairly gives a bad name to Jews.

  465. M. Ali says:

    To Fyi,

    Even if Iran had nukes, they still wouldn’t break the siege of Ghaza by attacking Israel. Iran has never claimed that they would attack Israel on Palestine’s behalf. Iranian’s aren’t stupid. They support the cause, and they support it financially and by advising and providing military weapons, but for the whole country to go to war with Israel has never been part of the Iran’s goals, and has never been stated as so.

    To even claim that they would need nukes to attack it, is to go by Israel’s own conclusion, that Iran wants nukes to attack Israel.

    Never has any Iranian political aim has been to directly age a war on Israel unless it is a retaliation again Israeli attacks on its own soil.

    To talk otherwise is either a proof of ignorance or dishonesty.

  466. M. Ali says:

    Karl,

    “About nuclear question

    Look how west get hysterical about Russia, but they dont dare doing anything against Russia. Why?
    Is it not because Russia is a nuclear/military supwerpower?”

    Lets see.

    USA sanctions a country without nukes (Iran)
    USA sanctions a country with nukes (Russia)

    USA is involved in directly influencing the neighbor of a country without nukes (Iran)
    USA is involved in directly influencing the neighbor of a country with nukes (Russia)

    USA is able to strong arm its allies to be against a country without nukes (Iran)
    USA is able to strong arm its allies to be against a country with nukes (Russia)

    And so on…

  467. M. Ali says:

    What you mentioned is,

    “Nukes is for deterrence: so you wont get attacked, it has nothing to do with stopping a coup in your neighbourhood. Nothing at all.”

    Which you add to the debate by saying,

    “Look how west get hysterical about Russia, but they dont dare doing anything against Russia.”

    What I am arguing is that it is not enough of a deterrence, because a country might be attacked by other ways.

    I previously used other examples to show how nukes does not help a country that much. To re-use the examples,

    Israel’s nukes did not prevent her having such a bad relationship with her neighbors. Maybe a different policy would have been more important and beneficial to help the country have a better future.

    USSR’s nukes did not prevent it from being dismantled. Maybe instead of focusing on nukes, it had better plans, it would have remained a relevant player.

    N. Korea’s nukes did not prevent it from being an isolated, damaged country with its only lifeline being China.

    Pakistan’s nukes did not prevent it from having such a weak government that it allows USA to freely attack its populace.

    UK & France havnt nuclear weapons makes no difference at all to the big picture, because they are under the umbrella of USA.

    I repeat, having nuclear weapons has its advantages, I am not saying it doesn’t. However, going after it and retaining it has enough political disadvantages that it might currently not be worth it.

  468. Karl.. says:

    M Ali


    Nukes is for deterrence: so you wont get attacked, it has nothing to do with stopping a coup in your neighbourhood. Nothing at all.

    =
    Nukes is for deterrence: so you wont get attacked

    Again it has nothing to do with the things you write about at all.

    Besides Pakistan is getting attacked because the gov accept US attacks. As I have made clear earlier:
    http://goingtotehran.com/flynt-leverett-on-iraqi-politics-iranian-iraqi-relations-and-how-to-think-about-the-islamic-state#comment-56131

  469. M. Ali says:

    Karl,

    Let me try again.

    A government has to make smart choices. Each decision that is made by a government has to take everything into account. Just because nuclear weapons is a useful deterrence does not make it automatically make it the best decision to make, because other factors come into play.

    I have discussed some of the cons of going that path, you have ignored that. Then, I have also given examples that while it might be a useful deterence for being attacked, that advantage is not that useful when a nation can be harmed in other ways.

    I have mentioned Pakistan accepts US attacks, and I have used that example to highlight that while choosing one method of deterance, while ignoring other ways, might not be beneficial to the country. That is, it is no use for a country to have nuclear weapons for deterence, if it allows attacks to occur in its land.

    You are looking at this in the most simplistic manner, which is not useful for a nation making difficult decisions. We, as individuals, also make difficult decisions on a daily basis. Let me give you some examples on an individual basis, which might shed some light on my point.

    Driving a car has dangers associated with it. An estimated 3000 people die per by car accidents. A good way to avoid the risks associated with a person dying in a car is to not drive a car or ride one.

    This is a choice that every person has. Most (not all) make the decision that the advantages of using a car outweighs the risks. We make the same decision when it comes to flight. Other decisions are made daily by where we go, what we eat, and how we entertain ourselves. A lot of actions we take could be reversed to increase the deterance against illness or death. However, we still make the decisions based on what think benefits us the most.

    A country does the same thing. It makes its decisions based on what is most beneficial for the country, taking EVERYTHING into account, not just one part of it. For now, at this point in time, Iran’s government considers nuclear weapons not to be for the benefit of the country. This is a decision I agree with, because putting in the Cons and Pros, the Cons outweight the Pros.

    If you reply to this with, “BUT IT IS GOOD FOR DETERENCEEEEEEEEEE!!! EEEEEEH” shows a lack of understanding of the complexity of decision making for a country.

  470. Karl.. says:

    M Ali

    Pakistan:
    “That is, it is no use for a country to have nuclear weapons for deterence, if it allows attacks to occur in its land.”
    That makes no sense, again it is (nukes) for deterrence against attacks AGAINST the gov of that country.
    That Pakistan accept US bombing the enemy of the pakistan state have nothing at all to do with the deterrence/nuclear issue. It would be, if US actually threatend to attack the gov of Pakistan. But they arent, so its completly unrelated.

    You dont seems to understand that if Iran actually had nuclear weapons we wouldnt have this discussion at all, because Iran would be respected like any other nuclear weapons state.

    Besides why are west not attacking Russia? Is it not because its a nuclear/military supowerpower?

  471. M. Ali says:

    Maybe we should take this step by step.

    Karl,

    Do you understand my point on how decisions are made, and how a country has to take all advantages and disadvantages of a decision into account, and then choose the best decisions for its country?

  472. M. Ali says:

    Wikipedia has a great opening on its decision making article, that I will quote here,

    “Decision-making can be regarded as the cognitive process resulting in the selection of a belief or a course of action among several alternative possibilities. Every decision-making process produces a final choice[1] that may or may not prompt action. Decision-making is the study of identifying and choosing alternatives based on the values and preferences of the decision maker. Decision-making is one of the central activities of management and is a huge part of any process of implementation.”

  473. Karl.. says:

    M Ali

    Yes I fully understand, thats why I made a reply to it @August 24, 2014 at 6:14 am
    Now, why are west not attacking Russia? Is it not because its a nuclear/military supowerpower?

  474. M. Ali says:

    There are many ways to answer that,

    1) There might be other reasons for why the west is not attacking Russia.

    2) Iran has not been attacked either by the west

    3) And most importantly, a nation makes decisions based on factors that best benefit its nation, not that since Russia hasn’t been attacked, lets get nukes. If my government was so simplistic in its approach, then I’d have called for their resignation

  475. Karl.. says:

    M Ali

    1 Like what for example? Why did they attack Libya, Iraq, Afghanstian, almost Syria etc? Whats the difference? What differ all these states vs Russia?

    2 Iran has been threatened with attack for the past 10 years, if they had nukes, that wouldnt have happend, would it?

    3 So Russia would still not be attacked if it were not a nuclear/military superpower?

  476. M. Ali says:

    1. Russia’s situation is not the same as Iraq or Libya with or without nuke. Nor is their relationship with the west same as those. Nor their strength, with or without nuke. Your comparison is misguided. It’s like saying that since Hitler was a vegetarian, does it mean that not eating meat can cause a person to become a dictator and kill millions? Or, what did the leaders of Afghanistan, Libya, and Iraq have in common? Facial hair. Putin has no facial hair. Russia has not been attacked. Therefore, Rouhani should shave it off.

    2. You think if they had nukes, they would not have been threatened, or they would not have been sanctioned, or they would have tried to harm Iran’s interests?

    3. Depend on which situation you are talking about. Let’s talk about today’s situation. Do you think if Russia did not have nuclear weapons, USA would engage in war with Russia over Ukraine?

  477. Karl.. says:

    M Ali

    1. So why are all these middle eastern countries attacked then and not Russia? Whats your reason if it has nothing to do with the fact
    that Russia is a nuclear/military superpower?

    2. They wouldnt be attacked and not sanctioned, is there any state ever that have been forced to give up already-having nukes? No.

    3. Russia wouldnt be the Russia we know today if it had not had nuclear weapons since the 50s.

  478. M. Ali says:

    1. Because the leaders had facial hair and Putin doesn’t.

    That correlation makes as much sense as yours does, when you think that ALL non-nuclear countries have been attacked by the west .

    2. Are you saying Iran wouldn’t be sanctioned? The way North Korea & Russia wasn’t sanctioned?

    3. You did not answer my question. Let me ask again, “Do you think if Russia did not have nuclear weapons, USA would engage in war with Russia over Ukraine?”

  479. Karl.. says:

    M Ali

    1. So why were these states attacked? Why werent west deterred attacking all those countries vs Russia in your opinion?

    2. No they wouldnt be sanctioned, again, what nuclear weapons state have been forced to destroy its nukes? Could you name one?

    3. I did but you dont accept my reply. You think that the US would be a superpower if it had not embraced economic/military power since WW2 and thus established world hegemony? You think the US would look the same (today)? Of course not and the same goes for Russia, if Russia, or rather Soviet wouldnt be a nuclear/military superpower during the past 50 years, the Russia today wouldnt have looked the same, in fact Crimea would have even belonged to Russia proper so we would probably not even have this conflict at all.

  480. Persian Gulf says:

    kooshy says:
    August 23, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    No insult but your rampage is disgusting. You have gone out of your mind, I think. This is the sort of behaviour that made the likes of Shariatmadari an isolated case in Iran, no matter how correct some of his assessments might be.

    What have you done for Iran? Forget about your father.

    To be fair someone like “fyi” has done much more for Iran than you. and you both ran away when the country needed you the most, i.e. the sacred defense period. There are differences of opinion, that exists between us all. but to use the differences to the level of personal attack that you make is simply ridiculous.

    My advise to you; try to write less and try to make sense of your writings.

  481. M. Ali says:

    I have made my points. This discussion has ceased to have enough depth to interest me furthur. Other reads are welcome to see if my arguments made sense. Thanks.

  482. kooshy says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 8:45 am

    “No insult but your rampage is disgusting.”

    The point I was making and you missed or ignored is equality and honesty. To have a healthy debate, criticize that is necessary, like in any research.
    I have nothing against him personally.

  483. fyi says:

    M. Ali says:

    August 24, 2014 at 2:18 am

    A convoy of aide ships, protected by the Iranian navy and air force, could break the siege of Gaza – like Russians just did in Novorossiya.

    Israelis, at that moment, would have the option of attacking Iranian navy but would not have the option of threatening a nuclear-armed Iran with their own nuclear weapons.

  484. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    August 24, 2014 at 8:45 am

    You are factually wrong; I was living outside of Iran long before the war started.

    I did not run away, as you have put it.

  485. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    August 24, 2014 at 8:45 am

    Nevertheless; than you very much for your kind words.

  486. Persian Gulf says:

    fyi says:
    August 24, 2014 at 9:18 am

    You had the option to go back and join my teenage brothers in the fight.

  487. Persian Gulf says:

    fyi says:
    August 24, 2014 at 9:25 am

    You’re welcome.

  488. Karl.. says:

    Israeli spy drone downed over Iran’s Natanz nuclear plant – report
    http://rt.com/news/182460-israel-iran-drone-nuclear/

  489. Amir says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 8:45 am

    Dear Sir,
    People have a right to express their ideas, more importantly when the security and national interests of their country (in this case Iran) is involved; better decisions could be made if everyone can voice their opinions.
    The problem here is that a majority of us thinks pursuing the path towards WMDs would cause huge damage to the credibility of Iran. Its neighbors most certainly would become more antagonistic towards it (where Iran says countries in the Middle East should set up new security systems and arrangements, excluding outside powers, doing something as destabilizing as getting an A-bomb would ensure nullifying all possibilities of ousting the US from the “Persian Gulf”). And worst of all, Israel has neo-conservatives have been arguing for a long time that Iran “needs” such weapons and in all likelihood it would eventually opt for that path, so it’s better to nip it in the bud, blah blah, more sanctions, preemptive strike, et cetera.
    The problem with this “gentleman” is that he is fully aware of the fact that this narrative plays so nicely into the hands of enemies’ of Iran, but he would go to extreme lengths to prove, promote and advocate this “innocent” point of view.
    At best he is an idiot.
    At worst he is a traitor.
    I absolutely don’t want to talk about it anymore, because every word that we (Iranians) utter, might be used against us (Iran); Zionist spies are EVERYWHERE.

  490. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    PG,

    fyi is an old a-hole and he has done nothing for Iran. He hides behind his screen persona and spews his hate and racism and knows that if he were to do that in person, somebody would have punched him the mouth many years ago.

    He’s a vatanforoosh, coward and liar because throughout the posts over the years he said he left after the revolution when they took his Pink Floyd tape and that he “didn’t want to waste his life” in revolutionary Iran.

    Apparently now the story has shifted.

    Of course he’s such an arrogant fuck that he thinks that Iran’s biggest mistake from asr-e shajar to now is that we did not use his “knowledge of the world”.

    What a piece of shit and not worthy of your defense.

  491. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Unlike kooshy-jan I do have a lot against him personally cuz as the feminists say, all politics is personal.

    The decisions we make in our lives of what movements, revolutions, ideas, politics to support or to oppose are not just “personal” decisions. They are reflections of our personalities and of our souls.

    No need for me to get into details in this matter as to the old a-hole, he’s doing an excellent job himself.

    For example, he will never discuss keramat ensani as it relates to west and Israel because he actually believes that their current victims deserve what they are getting. That’s the kind of sick fucker he is. Instead he likes to divert the debate to the “victims” of Qajar and Safavid princes from centuries ago.

    Like young bitch, old a-hole’s main problem is arrogance.

  492. kooshy says:

    All
    The most important point is we are all here debating our opinions in honesty of what we think or who we try to protect, and not with or for other hidden agendas. As matter of fact, now that their real allegiance and other motifs are out and in front, I don’t mind and care less how much he and his cohorts criticize, demonize Iran since now we can consider other possible motif for their analysis and opinions.

  493. kooshy says:

    You don’t and shouldn’t come to this forum, lying to change our opinions for safeguarding and protecting your other hidden agendas and interests that is not making a healthy and honest debate. Unfortunately the limited and only protection for safe guarding a healthy honest debate with our interlocutors is the back and forth that took place.

  494. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    سپاه یک فروند پهپاد جاسوسی رژیم صهیونیستی را با موشک ساقط کرد

    http://farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13930602001447

    Hallelujah…

  495. Amir says:

    kooshy and Bi[and others],
    Thanks guys! خدا خیرتون بده

  496. BiBiJon says:

    M. Ali says:
    August 24, 2014 at 8:46 am

    I guess one issue that weighs heavily in the decision making is how believable a nation has to make their nuclear deterrence strategy. Obviously, possession of NWs is not enough. Your enemy must BELIEVE that you will use them in certain circumstances.

    We have a wealth of information in that regard vis-a-vis US and USSR. See http://tdl.org/txlor-dspace/bitstream/handle/2249.3/252/07_eisen_cld_wr.htm?sequence=6

    You’ll notice that the now laughed at duck and cover hysteria of the 1950s was orchestrated mainly to convince USSR that US would contemplate a nuclear war.

    The problem is that in an asymmetric situation, where say Iran had a few dozen nukes facing off against hundreds (Israel) or 1000s (US) the burden of making your deterrence believable would border on making your utter insanity believable, for only the insane would contemplate risk of civilizational extinction to achieve a particular goal, such as “don’t you dare attack me.” FYI is trying to play on folks emotional strings (Gaza) and poke at folks sense of manhood (how else would you break the siege). But those scenarios are no different; The other side must be made to believe that there are circumstances when you would use NWs. Which in turn involves believing that you are utterly irrational and suicidal. As per Jay’s allusion to asymmetry, no sooner than Iran has managed to convince her enemies that she’s stark raving mad, than she has in fact forced any rational adversary to attack Iran before she amasses even more nukes.

    The asymmetry is not a bug, but a feature even versus the apartheid pipsqueak, because, as per Hassan Rouhani back in 2006:

    “taking account of U.S. nuclear arsenal and its policy of ensuring a strategic edge for Israel, an Iranian bomb will accord Iran no security dividends.” See ;content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1192435,00.html

    In a nutshell, no one would believe Iran would initiate a nuclear war (first strike) and no one would believe Iran would retaliate against a first strike by someone else, rather than surrender Japan style because civilizational survival is at stake.

    Iran has invested a lot in appearing principled, consistent, and reliably a rational actor. It is beyond calculation what harm it will do to Iran’s reputation if she did a U-turn on her long stated declaratory defense posture.

    None of above is to argue that Iran does not have a very effective deterrence already, namely her anti-ship missiles lording over the Persian Gulf. It is a deterrence that can be deployed incrementally, and selectively against a particular country’s shipping on a manageable escalation ladder, without the immoral use of WMD and attendant huge human/environmental collateral damage.

    You’ll notice on the Russia arguments you’re having with Karl, he keeps “mentioning nuclear/military superpower.” It is clear that it is completely unclear how much of the conventional 4th generation military might deters a conventional military assault, versus how much the nuclear back up comes into the equation. As far as I know, Russia’s declared nuclear policy is that she would use tactical nuclear weapons against an overwhelming military attack. I.e. she might target the invading army, not enemy cities, per se. But, you make a much more important point. Comparing The circumstances of countries such as Russia and Iran, their relationship with their adversaries, etc., is as relevant as drawing conclusions based on con/sans facial hair.

  497. Persian Gulf says:

    M.Ali

    I think China had the same concerns about her smaller neighbors back then.

    If Iran had nuclear weapons, Iraq wouldn’t have attacked her. Russia is still there and not disintegrated solely because of her nuclear weapons. One of the utilities of nuclear weapons is to maintain national boundaries, not necessarily to prevent small scale attacks.

    The Arab upheaval of 2011 changed the kind of dynamics you are talking about. Iran is now on her own with the Shia communities here and there. The neighbors you are referring to simply can’t get their hold on to the nuclear weapons. Otherwise they would have acquired them already. it’s not because Iran is being holding off.

    I am just expressing my personal opinion here. it seems to me, in the same way as the US is looking for an opportunity to attack Iran, Iran should be looking for an opportunity to make the bomb. it might not necessarily be now or in two years, but there should be no question about its inevitability. if Iran’s leaders are thinking otherwise, they are simply wrong. If the US hasn’t directly attacked (well it actually did in the case of Iran air plane), it was not because Iran had the good intention of not wanting to make the bomb, rather the condition wasn’t ripe enough.

    The mindset in this part of the world is very straightforward and direct. and it only understands naked power. no amount of cultural intricacies would deter it from the harm it would think necessary to inflict, when the opportune time arrived.

  498. Persian Gulf says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 24, 2014 at 11:00 am

    When you have the ultimate weapon, you don’t care if others see you irrational or not. what matters is you have it in your backyard and you will use it. you only care about rationality now when you don’t have it.

  499. Karl.. says:

    Persian Gulf
    August 24, 2014 at 11:06 am

    Very good, especially this:

    “The mindset in this part of the world is very straightforward and direct. and it only understands naked power”

  500. BiBiJon says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 11:06 am

    OK. Can you play act the scenario. Iran has nukes. It is 1980. Post revolution Iranian military is in disarray. Saddam decides Iran would not hit with nukes because he has been assured that US simultaneously with flashing a green light for Saddam’s invasion, has communicated to Iran about use of nukes is a no no!

    Please take it from there. You are SL. Iraqi army is in Khoramshahr. It is September 1980.

  501. BiBiJon says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 11:23 am

    “When you have the ultimate weapon, you don’t care if others see you irrational or not. what matters is you have it in your backyard and you will use it. you only care about rationality now when you don’t have it.”

    Are you aware of the recently declassified documents showing that costly duck and cover drills was to make USSR believe the unthinkable? If not, could you please read up about it, see if it changes your opinion.

  502. M.Ali says:

    I’d like to add to Bibijon’s scenario.

    Let’s say Saddam attacks. Iran has nukes. They use them on Iraq.

    Now imagine the consequences,

    1) The world, instead of indirectly supporting Iraq, will now directly get involved. There has been no usage of nukes in almost seven decades and suddenly a revolutionary country has used it. There will be boots on the ground, many of them. A trigger happy revolutionary country is too dangerous for anyone, and they would want to nub it in the butt. They wouldn’t even nuke Iran, so that history would be on their side. NATO plus USSR would join hands to derail Iran’s revolutionary, destroy everyone, and after 3000 years of history, remove Iran from the map. No one would shed a tear for us.

    2) Iran would lose the support of the world’s muslims, not just in that war, but for decades to come after it. If for some unrealistic reason, Iran still survives, anti-Iranians would have the perfect propaganda to use against for all eternity. Sunnis in all part of the world would shudder at the thought of one day a rising shia power nuking their hometown. Shias in Iraq will shudder at the thought of Iranian shias, and there will be no alliance as there is now. Generations have to pass before the stigma is removed.

    3) Iran’s Islamic ideology will be threatened when it comes to its own people. When horrific images of massacred civilians and babies are broadcast constantly in the news, it would get harder and harder for the Iranian Islamic clerics to defend the revolutionary. It would be hard for Khomeini to claim to be a pious leader when he is seen as being responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of civilians with a single bomb. What strength would any of Khomeini’s or any of the leaders of an ISLAMIC republic have when they go so against the Islamic teachings, that asks that even livestock and trees should not be unnecessary damaged in war.

    BY the way, my third point has nothing to do with Islam per se, but the legitimacy the government will have with its people.

    To have a deterrence but to lose the revolution is not a victory.

    To have a deterrence but to be dismantled (like USSR) is not a victory.

    To have a deterrence but to be completely isolated and to rely on handouts (like North Korea) is not a victory.

    To have a deterrence but to be so weak as to invite USA to attack its people (Pakistan) is not a victory.

  503. fyi says:

    M.Ali says:

    August 24, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Tactical nuclear weapons could be used against troop concentrations as well as the oil infrastructures.

    Under another scenario, Faw could not have been recaptured by Iraq using chemical weapons – Iranians could have immediately retaliated with nuclear weapons.

    It is for this reason that the late Saddam Hussein did not attack Israel with scud missiles tipped with chemical weapons – Israelis without a doubt would have attacked Iraq with nuclear weapons.

    And there could be many more such scenario – without a doubt.

    I repeat again: nuclear weapons have kept the peace in Europe, on the Korean peninsula, and between Pakistan and India.

  504. M.Ali says:

    And Persian Gulf,

    My stance is not that Iran should never ever ever have the bomb. But merely that, at the moment of time, going after the bomb is more disadvantages than an advantage. In a different time and circumstances, maybe going for the bomb would be a beneficial decision to make.

    For example, lets think of it this way. What if per-revolution Iran did have the bomb? After the revolution, should they have dismantled it? I would probably argue no. Should they have used it against Iraq? I probably would say no. Should they have used it against Israel to break the Ghaza siege, as fyi insanely argues? I would definitely say no. And it seems nuclear weapons have a shelf life of 20 years (am I right here?), then should they have upgraded it? Hmm, more difficult to say.

  505. Karl.. says:

    Bibijon
    August 24, 2014 at 11:33 am

    You mean Iran wouldnt use nukes because US said “no no”? You believe Iran must have the acceptance of west to defend itself?

  506. James Canning says:

    Persian Gulf,

    Possession of nukes did ZERO to prevent collapse of the Soviet Union. Possession of nukes does nothing to help preserve territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.

  507. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    At the end of the Second World War, Truman was keen to bring US troops back to America and to return as fast as possible to peace-time conditions. The US had a very small army in the years before the Second World War.

  508. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Iran is currently deterring the US/Israel/UK/any bitch that wants to attack it with anything and can hurt any nation anywhere in the world anytime if it becomes necessary.

    No need for an active nuclear weapons program with all the downsides this program entails currently.

    Professionals like SL know all this, old a-holes sitting the US who have never done anything for the defense of their homeland don’t know any of this.

    Time to move on to another topic.

  509. James Canning says:

    Karl..,

    The targets attacked by the US within Pakistan are targets the Pakistani government wants attacked.

  510. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind has a good bit of influence, in Britain and abroad. If he thinks the overthrow of the Syrian government may not be an object that should be pursued by many Sunni leaders in the Middle East, this is a good thing.

  511. James Canning says:

    Persian Gulf,

    No points to you for clarity. I take it you think Iran’s expansion of its nuclear programme had nothing to do with the wrecking of William Hague’s programme of seeking an improvement of Britain’s relations with Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas.

  512. Amir says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    August 24, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    Good call! An analyst has suggested the Israeli drone had crossed another Arab neighbor airspace. Also I’ve been hearing that UAE is currently hosting MKO members. Is it the last desperate attempts of a frustrated foe? Or is it the beginning of a new scheme?

  513. M.Ali says:

    Amir,

    “Also I’ve been hearing that UAE is currently hosting MKO members. ”

    I doubt it. UAE has always tried to balance its fear of US on one side, and not getting in Iran’s way on the other side. They’d never poke Iran like that.

  514. Persian Gulf says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 24, 2014 at 11:33 am
    “…Saddam decides Iran would not hit with nukes because …”

    Your assumption is wrong. In the condition of Iran having the nukes, Saddam WOULD NOT HAVE DECIDED to carry out any attack. his attention would have been directed toward something else already. Attacking Iran wouldn’t had come to his mind at the first place.

    China did not even think of attacking USSR at the time of USSR’s dissolution.

    I think you are a defeatist unlike other people in this website who are opposed to the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons. You could be a good fiction writer, if you are not already one. Looks like you have a great mind to romanticize the events. you can think of any unlikely scenario but not the naked one in front of everyone. Every historical analogy refutes your idea.

  515. fyi says:

    Persian Gulf says:

    August 24, 2014 at 6:02 pm

    Official Iranian government data states that 294,000 souls perished in the War against Iraq – 240,000 irregulars and 54,000 regulars.

    Assuming each one of the dead would have sired at least 2 children, and their children would have had 2 children themselves; there would have been more than 2 million Iranians alive today – had the war never taken place.

    Axis Powers, China and Russia are in effect telling Iran to elect to face such losses again and again – and if Iran refuses their diktat – they will bomb her.

    Or get someone else to attack Iran – who knows whom; Pakistan? Turkey? Turkmenistan?

    I hope the logic is quite clear.

  516. BiBiJon says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 6:02 pm

    I note your various expletives, and derogatory terms, etc.

    As noted before by M.Ali, analogies to China and Russia can only be so much guidance. Iran Iraq war on the other hand did happen, and if you can manage to keep stupid cometary out of it, a useful discussion might ensue where you might indeed convincingly demonstrate that war could have been prevented if Iran possessed nukes.

    The way I see it, the crucial elemnet in Saddam’s decision to attack was the American green light to do so. Implicit in that was perceived Iranian isolation, wrath of US making enemy of my enemy alliance. Post revolution Iran and disorder in military ranks was an opportunity not to be missed. I don’t think Saddam’s long standing enmity towards Iran, and/or his regional ambitions served to determine his new-found courage, nor determine the timing.

    I suspect US would have had even more reasons to egg Saddam on if Iran possessed nuclear weapons. As you must know intimately Israel’s possession of Nukes has not stopped Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Hezbolah at various times going to war with her. So, I think both fro Saddam’s own ambitions, and for US’ geostrategic interests an Iran-Iraq war would have been even more crucial to fight. Not necessarily to win, you understand, but to force concessions, etc.

    Feel free to start the scenario anywhere else you like.

  517. kooshy says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 6:02 pm

    fyi says:
    August 24, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    Iran correctly and based on right decision at the time didn’t even respond in kind to the western assisted chemical attack on Iranian civilians and military personnel by Saddam forces. It is proven and we all know Iran had more capability than Iraq in producing chemical weapons, but still correctly she choose not to respond in kind why? The reason was what it is called Karamat Ensani, which it seems by living in the west for long time, some of us, have or are losing their Karamat. This is the subject of very intense the discussion we had for past few days. Is exactly the very lack of this Karamat Ensani which not even a drop of it exist in the illegal entity of Israel that is killing dirt poor defenseless 2 year old girls in Palestine, which due to not being profitable for him fyi refuses to condone or even to mention.

    PG- one should know not to jump in middle of a discussions and debate without knowing who is saying what, with what motif, for what reason, with what background, and for what end. I hope you dint research your thesis this way.

  518. kooshy says:

    Israel had nukes still Saddam attacked with missiles.
    Saddam knew Iran can retaliate with chemical weapon he still attacked
    With WMD
    Who ever believes Saddam was a calculating leader, you need to have his head examined.
    FYI has other interests for insisting on this issue.

  519. Persian Gulf says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 24, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    I was serious in suggesting that you could be a fiction writer. That was not meant to be a derogatory comment, rather a compliment. I wish I could have that ability too, anyway.

    I do not disagree with the idea of the US encouraging Saddam to attack Iran. To the contrary, I agree with that idea fully. In fact, I have argued before that had the Hostage Crises not happened, Saddam wouldn’t have attacked Iran in Sept 1980. What I said was: even with the US green light, Saddam would have thought twice in the event of Iran possessing nuclear weapons. This is where I believe you are extracting false conclusion.

    Saddam’s ambition would have gone south, as the later events factually proven, if Iran had nuclear weapons in Sept 1980.

    Another false conclusion from your reading of recent middle east events is the comparison you make with the asymmetrical warfare and the full fledged one that Saddam waged. What I said was that nuclear weapons would not prevent asymmetrical war against a country. However, they will definitely prevent a full fledged war. Saddam was already waging asymmetrical war against Iran at the time of Shah, as you well know. At the time when the US was a good friend of Iran and the Shah was seen as the police of the Persian Gulf.

    Apparently I am not able to simulate the events as they occurred back in Sept 1980 that you have suggested since I was a few weeks infant at the time.

  520. Persian Gulf says:

    kooshy says:
    August 24, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    I had to erase my comment in response to the question you asked about the war as it would have not been an appropriate one in a forum like this.

    For other stuff, I let you vent out!

  521. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    The best thing that happened to Iran in centuries was the Iran-Iraq war.

    300,000+ shahid and many many more you prayed for shahadat- and who still do today- and for whom Allah (swt) has other plans currently.

    Those who get it, get it, those that don’t, don’t.

    Can’t except arrogant old a-holes who abandoned their motherland in its most desperate hour to every even begin to understand.

    He obviously won’t shut his najis mouth about the war and shohada and he should pray I don’t find him to shut it.

    What’s the point of going on about “keramat ensani” when the old fool hasn’t yet figured out “adab”?

    Don’t talk about things you have no clue about. You have no clue or inkling about anything related to defending Iran. None whatsoever.

    May Allah curse the one who breaks the heart of the families of the shohada.

    Having to listen to him open his najis mouth about the war and the shohada is a test from Allah (swt) and maybe a way to purify me before I leave this place and join my friends on the other side, inshallah.

    I seek refuge with the shohada and with the God of the shohada from the arrogant, deceiving words of najis nasebis.

  522. Amir says:

    I got my answer! 😀
    http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13930603000741
    And God bless you, BiB.

  523. Amir says:

    Also, an article for those who are interested in South-East Asia, see link: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-02-250814.html. A summary of the piece, in the authors’ words:

    “Take White house’s declaration that the United States is the protector of the world EEZ regime, add Pedrozo’s determination that the PRC has no sovereignty or EEZ rights in the South China Sea, and we have a fresh strategic and legal rationale for active US involvement in SCS EEZ disputes.
    Or, to put it less charitably, combine dubious US doctrine and bullshit US lawyering (and the predictable assistance of a complaisant Western press and compliant allies) and the United States can unilaterally declare a compelling national interest to intervene in bilateral economic disputes thousands of miles from home … and declare China an outlaw in its own maritime backyard!”

  524. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Well looks like there is no room for socialists in the socialist admin of France.

    America’s bitch wants to consolidate power and get rid of any internal rivals.

    Keep your eyes on the prize, Manuel!

    French Prime Minister Moves to Dissolve Government

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/26/world/europe/french-prime-minister-moves-to-dissolve-government.html?_r=0

  525. nico says:

    kooshy says:
    August 24, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    “The reason was what it is called Karamat Ensani, which it seems by living in the west for long time, some of us, have or are losing their Karamat.”

    Why are you insisting to find Karamat, decency or morality in their words.
    They have none.

    Years ago they stated the fallen state Man and that history has no direction.
    That is the bottom line of their thinking.

    As I stated years ago here, they are nihilist.
    That is the end state of the enlightment philosophy, reason leading to scientific amorality.
    Summing up Man to his bestial status and darwinist instinct for survival.

    That is their trancendency and the basic/fundamental difference with the Iran leadership ideology.

    How many times did we heard Amadhinejad stating that Man should strive for Perfection following monetheist teaching. Clearly for the Iran leadership there is a path to be followed and History has a direction.

    For the kind of fyi when they speak about god, that is only blattering and words devoid of meaning.
    That is only pretending.

    That being said it is quite a deep question of philosophy as the relation between the Church and the Prince.
    As a matter of fact the enlightment has been the end of the relation between catholocism and state affairs. With the final blow being Vatican 2.

    The relation between the Torah and Protestantism with state affairs is quite different as Judaism and protestantism are Business and bourgeoisie compatible.
    While Catholicism always struggled with the notion of wealth and morality.
    That is why catholicism disappeared, it was an obstacle to the so called “modernism” in truth the law of the market.

    As a conclusion fyi is truly a freemason lite.
    Maybe he or Canning do not formally adhere to such organization.
    But they are totally brainsashed by its ideology in its final phase of putrefaction.
    Thus there is no surprise here about their positions.

    That was crystal clear from the very start.
    What is only left in fyi naming God is only superstition and pretending.
    But he has lost the basic teaching of decency and morality.
    Rotten to the very core.

    As matter of fact I am atheist.
    But I feel closer in my thinking to true believers than those caricature of God worshipers.

  526. BiBiJon says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 24, 2014 at 9:17 pm

    “I was serious in suggesting that you could be a fiction writer. That was not meant to be a derogatory comment, rather a compliment. I wish I could have that ability too, anyway.”

    It is more persuasive to read counter arguments that don’t start with calling the other side’s analysis as fiction.

    “Saddam would have thought twice in the event of Iran possessing nuclear weapons. This is where I believe you are extracting false conclusion.”

    There two problems here that makes these assumptions less than certain.

    1) As Kooshy noted, Saddam was not deterred by Iran’s known possession of CW pre-cursors, and hence Iran’s undoubted ‘ability’ to retaliate in kind.

    2) Dropping a nuke is no small matter, indeed by huge orders of magnitude, is a tremendous leap into the unknowable unknowns. Frankly unthinkable, for all the reasons that all the NW states have had for not settling their wars by dropping nukes since 1945. Add to this known costs, e.g. US’ declared nuclear posture/policy acting as a deterrent to use of nukes by ‘rogue’, revolutionary states, and one starts to see how Saddam could have reasonably calculated nukes would not be used, and if they were used, it would mean Iraq’s victory over Iran curtsey of Uncle Sam without anyone shedding a tear for Iran. Saddam was more than willing to sacrifice 10s of 1000s to achieve his aims. He had famously said so before the first Gulf war of 1991.

    Iran, even in the tumultuous days immediately after the revolution, considered herself to be a major nation/state among states, particularly among fellow Muslim-majority states. Without putting too fine a point on it, dropping nukes is a rather adolescent petulance that does not comport well with millennially minded Iranians, quite apart from the moral dimensions.

    —–

    “Saddam’s ambition would have gone south, as the later events factually proven, if Iran had nuclear weapons in Sept 1980.”

    It is not as easy for me as it seems to be for you, to imagine that Saddam would have invaded a fellow Arab country if he didn’t feel he was the overlord of Arabs because of having first stood up to Iran. Fighting Iran had another powerful domestic angle: the continued oppression of Iraqi Shiites, as well as making sure nobody else start harboring revolutionary thoughts against their local despots. On both those counts he was in sync with the rest of the Arab world. Conversely, recall how his invasion of Q8 generated an Arab coalition (sans Jordan) against him.

    —-

    “Another false conclusion from your reading of recent middle east events is the comparison you make with the asymmetrical warfare and the full fledged one that Saddam waged. What I said was that nuclear weapons would not prevent asymmetrical war against a country. However, they will definitely prevent a full fledged war. Saddam was already waging asymmetrical war against Iran at the time of Shah, as you well know. At the time when the US was a good friend of Iran and the Shah was seen as the police of the Persian Gulf.”

    I don’t know that I digressed from ‘all out war’, but yes, let’s keep the focus on preventing all out war, specifically Saddam’s decision to attack Iran in 1980.

    —–

    “Apparently I am not able to simulate the events as they occurred back in Sept 1980 that you have suggested since I was a few weeks infant at the time.”

    Fine with me, if you want to end the scenario role playing.

  527. Rehmat says:

    On Sunday, an Iranian surface-to-air missile intercepted and shot-down an Israeli pilotless aircraft flying over Iranian airspace before it reached the Natanz nuclear enrichment plant in central Iran.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/08/25/israeli-drone-shot-down-by-iran/

  528. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 24, 2014 at 8:38 pm

    It is better to be alive and a sinner than dead and immaculate.

  529. Jay says:

    I have made my position on NW clear earlier. I wish to add some facts to guide any further discussion.

    The list of what NW did not do!

    NW in U.S. hands did not prevent non-nuclear North Korea from invading South Korea or non-nuclear China from sending its armies to attack U.S. military forces in the ensuing Korean War.

    U.S. NW might did not prevent the Soviet invasion of Hungary.
    U.S. NW might did not prevent the Warsaw Pact’s invasion of Czechoslovakia
    U.S. NW might did not prevent the Soviet military intervention in Afghanistan

    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Korea
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Vietnam
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Lebanon
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in the Dominican Republic
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Grenada
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Panama
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Afghanistan
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Iraq

    NW in Russian hands did not prevent CIA-fomented military action to overthrow the government of Iran
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent CIA-fomented military action to overthrow the government of Guatemala
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent CIA-fomented military action to overthrow the government of Cuba
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent CIA-fomented military action to overthrow the government of Chile
    NW in Russian hands did not prevent CIA-fomented military action to overthrow the government of Nicaragua

    British nuclear weapons did not stop non-nuclear Argentina’s invasion of Britain’s Falkland Islands
    Israel’s nuclear weapons did not prevent non-nuclear Egypt and non-nuclear Syria from attacking Israel in 1973
    Israel’s nuclear weapons did not prevent non-nuclear Iraq from launching missile attacks on Israeli cities in 1991.
    In 1999 India and Pakistan sent their troops into battle against one another in what became known as the Kargil War – they both nuclear weapons

  530. fyi says:

    All:

    On Human Dignity (Keramat Ensani)

    http://www.pajoohe.com/25513/index.php?Page=definition&UID=33396

    I agree with most of that.

  531. kooshy says:

    Fyi

    UNESCO’s prize in “Karamat Ensani” in science goes to an Iranian researcher in Iran

    به گزارش خبرنگار مهر، محقق ایرانی، دکتر حسین بهاروند رئیس پژوهشکده سلول های بنیادی پژوهشگاه رویان موفق به دریافت جایزه بین المللی یونسکو- گینه استوایی در سال 2014 شد.

    این نخستین بار است که یکی از محققان ایرانی موفق به دریافت چنین جایزه ای می شود. این جایزه به سازمان ها یا افرادی اختصاص می یابد که پژوهش یا تحقیقاتی را در حوزه علوم زیستی انجام داده تا پژوهش ها بتوانند زندگی انسان ها را دستخوش تغییر کنند.
    http://www.mehrnews.com/detail/News/2357062

  532. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 25, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Excellent news; may we witness more such news over the coming years and decades and centuries…

  533. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    August 25, 2014 at 9:52 am

    You still do not get it – nuclear weapons have kept the peace in Europe, on the Korean Peninsula, and between India and Pakistan.

    They have prevented generalized warfare to emerge.

  534. kooshy says:

    Jay says:
    August 25, 2014 at 9:52 am

    Let’s add one more which I remember

    Israel’s NW didn’t prevent Saddam ( Now days here on GTT a Disney like rational calculating dictator) attacking Israel with missiles (initially fearing a chemical missile attack)

  535. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 10:23 am

    What I wrote was a list enumerating a few factual instances of outbreak of war in the presence of NW – not peace.

    You are welcome to your opinion, but not to your own set of facts!

    You are also welcome to opine about what has not happened and suggest reasons for the absence of an event, but that would be considered “hypothetical” – again not facts!

    You can insist that your views are correct – and that is your right to do so – but there is not a single solid shred of actual evidence to support the efficacy of NWs in asymmetrical situations. None!

  536. Khomeini says:

    What a wonderful DEMOCRACY western, Turkish,Saudi Arabian, Qatari, and UAE created in Libya. Its breath taking.

    http://rt.com/news/182512-fire-airport-libya-tripoli/

  537. fyi says:

    All:

    On Iraq’s use of chemical weapons:

    http://cns.miis.edu/npr/pdfs/81ali.pdf

    When CWBT was shredded, NPT was as well.

    Iranians cannot trust the welfare of their state on “pieces of paper”.

  538. fyi says:

    All:

    US National Security Strategy on Iran (circa 2007)

    http://www.cisd.soas.ac.uk/Files/docs/11202639-iran-study-07.07.pdf

  539. Fiorangela says:

    Arms Control Law recently posted important observations about the use of tear gas by US police officers to control protests/riots. The Banalisation of Tear Gas by Jean-Pascal Zanders.

  540. Fiorangela says:

    The amount of attention C Span is extending to Reza Aslan suggests that the PTB seek to anoint him as an “expert” on Iran.

    In 2010, Dr. Flynt Leverett and Aslan were interviewed by Margaret Warner on PBS to discuss opposition movements in Iran. http://www.raceforiran.com/misreading-iranian-politics-in-washington

  541. fyi says:

    Jay says:

    August 25, 2014 at 10:36 am

    Nuclear weapons do not make a state vulnerable.

    They do not make a state invincible either.

    As Mr. Karl has pointed out, they impose constrains on those contemplating attacking Iran.

    At the moment, there are minimal such constraints on attacking Iran; that is why journalistic threats have been made for the last 12 years.

  542. Photi says:

    Good news from the IRGC on shooting down the Israeli drone. Excellent deterrence so much more practical than a nuclear weapon. Make Israelis think ten times before they send their precious pilots over Iranian airspace.

    http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/08/25/376514/iran-releases-pictures-of-israel-spy-drone/

  543. Jay says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 11:24 am

    We agree on points 1 and 2.

    Point 3 is broadly true as any weapon that can be delivered to a significant target imposes restraints.

    We do not agree on point 4. Constraints do not need to be of the NW nature, and there are constraints – the evidence is the absence of a direct attack so far. As to journalistic threats, please recall that the Soviet Union was threatened with annihilation on numerous occasions – USSR was a NW state.

  544. kooshy says:

    Khomeini says:
    August 25, 2014 at 10:40 am

    “What a wonderful DEMOCRACY western, Turkish, Saudi Arabian, Qatari, and UAE created in Libya. Its breath taking.”

    The western group of countries who they have self-selected themselves as International community, are governed by a bunch of war criminals for decades, unlike what fyi and others like us to believe they lack any or even a drop of Karamat Ensani in them.
    Unlike the people in this same western countries who have the say and means of electing their own governments, unfortunately people in the middle eastern Muslim countries which you mentioned, meaning the Muslim client colony states of the westerners have no say or mean to elect their governments and stop the westerners crime on their own kind in which their governments on dictate of the west participate on. In spite of all that some people like fyi want me and you believe there exist more Karamt in West/ and Israel than in Iran, this is more like helping the criminals to hide their crimes.

  545. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 25, 2014 at 12:14 pm

    A few years ago, this fellow in Iran gave a speech – another one of those “stupid mullahs” as the late Mr. Khomeini called them – essentially stating that those opposing the Islamic Establishment – their namus should be made available to the “Believers”.

    The man had no shame, no decency, and certainly no religion.

    He should have been fired from all his posts and sent to someplace obscure to preside over weddings and funerals.

    He and his kind are well-protected to threaten other Muslims, their life, their property, and their namus.

    Do you think people are not hearing what he was saying?

    Do you think people were not deeply offended?

  546. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 12:35 pm
    Just out of curiosity, does he happen to have a name, or are we supposed to take you for your word?

  547. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Speaking of threats, let’s not forget Krushchev’s famous declaration at the UN: “We will bury you!”

  548. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Najmeh Bozorgmehr had a full-page report in the Financial Times last week, on catastrophic environmental blunders by Ahmadinejad. Was he seeking “perfection”, in a religious sense, when he made those mistakes?

  549. thecelticwithinme says:

    FYI – “At the moment, there are minimal such constraints on attacking Iran.”

    IF this were true it would have happened by now. Fact is there are HUGE constraints in place as U.S. war games on subject have demonstrated. James too is silly insisting it’s about 20% this or 15,000 centrifuges that. The mess in the Middle East is, and ALWAYS HAS BEEN about OIL, and who controls it.

    In October 1973, western interests lost control of KSA oil production when King Faisal withdrew SA oil from world markets. Something had to be done. And King Faisal was eliminated. In 1979, western interests lost control of Iranian oil. Something had to be done. Western interests were not about to surrender 2 million+ bpd to a INDEPENDENT entity. That would be destabilizing and introduce too much uncertainty in the “free-market”. In other words, this threat, this new reality of an independent entity with refining capabilities AND huge reserves, had to be addressed. Who better to do it than Iran’s next door neighbor, with some prodding and promises thrown in along the way. Iraq first targeted the world’s largest refinery built by BP at Abadan. Hmm. Wonder why that was? Closely followed by all the re-flagging that was going on in the Gulf at the time, not to mention the jump in output of KSA, which suppressed oil prices at critical moment in Iran-Iraq war. No James, the mess in the Middle East is, always has been, and for the foreseeable future, always will be, about OIL and control of oil markets. That is the reason Iran has not been attacked UP TO NOW. Not that Iran exerts any control mind you. No. It’s that Iran can impact western interests’ control (and manipulation thereof) of the international oil market in a very bad way that holds them back from unleashing their hell fire.

    How is it possible ISIS can produce, let alone sell the oil production it now controls in Iraq and Syria? Oh, I know, it’s that dirty old black market thingy at work again. That explains it all. Black market indeed. About the same color of crude I’ve no doubt.

  550. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    “A few years ago, this fellow in Iran gave a speech – another one of those “stupid mullahs” as the late Mr. Khomeini called them – essentially stating that those opposing the Islamic Establishment – their namus should be made available to the “Believers”.”

    How desperate, crafty, deceptional and low, one can get to utter a response like what you just did, comparing a speech by a low ranking Mullah in a sermon or even a member of parliament to that of criminal decisions made by likes of Mr. Cameron, Mr. Obama and Nut-n-Yaboo for knowingly and purposely killing millions of innocent men women and children. Where is that Karamat Ensani, you talk about, why can’t you say this decision by countries I support is criminal. Where is the human dignity that you say everyone should have excepting you, since it interrupts your profiteering? There is no shame.

  551. fyi says:

    thecelticwithinme says:

    August 25, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    The Americans are only one among the many potential adversaries of Iran.

    If Pakistan attacks Iran, retaliation against oil installations of Saudi Arabia (hardened against land and aerial attacks over the last few years) is not a political possibility nor militarily useful.

    My essential thesis is that since the 1998 nuclear explosions of India and Pakistan, Iran has been living on borrowed time.

    In regards to your last paragraph: that is exactly the question in Iran – and with that the belief that ISIS is an instrument Axis Powers and their local allies – of which they have lost control and they are trying to regain control.

  552. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 25, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    The issue is not his rank.

    The issue is that he dares – in Islamic Iran – to threaten the namus of other Muslims.

    Who the hell is he?

    It is under such threats that Muslims have to live in Muslim countries.

    Physician, Heal Thyself!

  553. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Give us his name or else shut the fuck up.

  554. fyi says:

    All:

    General Dempsey on ISIS:

    http://news.yahoo.com/dempsey-act-islamic-group-threatens-us-032616245–politics.html

    The way I read it, Axis Powers have ruled out destroying ISIS’s sanctuary in Syria under the excuse of “ISIS not yet being a threat to US homeland”.

    Next come the other excuse – a real non-starter – a coalition of the local states ” including Jordan, Turkey and Saudi Arabia …”

    These are all delaying tactics until they regain control of ISIS or otherwise convince it to attack the Shia…

  555. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 1:56 pm
    I didn’t think so [that you aren’t actually making that up]! All references to external facts should be properly annotated, or you could have said your were just making that up, or making a hypothetical supposition.
    I’m sure you’ve heard of Emam Khomeini’s 8-point Edict; he explicitly mentioned even members of MKO should be dealt within Islamic and Humanitarian boundaries, and that was a time of great tumult and those people were probably the worst plague of Iranian society.

  556. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Jay-jan,

    I’ve pointed for some time now that he as a matter of principle disregards facts when they go against his opinions.

    At least others are finally catching onto what a piece of shit we’re dealing with.

  557. Amir says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    August 25, 2014 at 2:28 pm
    Be jaane haaji I have just recently realized what you meant. And I want to ignore him, but he just excretes even more nonsense.
    All I could say is that you, and others on this page [and elsewhere] are at the forefront of defending the Islamic Republic of Iran and what you have been doing is nothing short of what the Aerospace Force of IRGC did yesterday.

  558. Jay says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    August 25, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    One can ignore facts at one’e own peril!

    I do not have an issue with a debate of opinions. I do object to debate of opinions clothed as discussion of facts.

    fyi is entitled to hold any opinion he wishes to hold – just as does the mullah he is referring to in his latest message. However, once these opinions present themselves as actionable facts, or facts to be relied on, then there is an issue.

  559. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 25, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    One always hopes that the security organs of the Iranian state constantly remind themselves of those 8 points so that we may never again have to witness cases such as those of the late Mrs. Kazemi and the late Mr. Beheshti.

  560. fyi says:

    kooshy says:

    August 25, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    I do not recall his name; I will have to search for it.

  561. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Jay,

    Like I said, he’s a piece of shit that doesn’t care about facts or reality when he’s venting his complexes disguised as “opinions”.

  562. Karl.. says:

    fyi

    Since Leverett’s apparently dont check the comments here you may email them to raise the issue of some peoples behavior here.

  563. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Obviously, if the US begins attacks on Isis forces in Syria, questions will present themselves regarding why the US was helping insurgents in that country. Potential domestic political problems come to the fore.

  564. kooshy says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 1:56 pm

    “The issue is not his rank.”
    “I do not recall his name; I will have to search for it.”

    Sorry for having to say this on this forum to our real bloggers again, but man you are full of shit, not worthy of wasting time and having a debate with.

    I think the mullah you are referring to has since moved to Israel since there he is free to practice apartheid without being worried on being questioned on his Karamat Ensani. May I suggest next time you drive up to Haifa look for him there, him and your body Smith, may finally find their mental orgy there.

  565. nico says:

    fyi says:
    August 25, 2014 at 9:52 am
    “It is better to be alive and a sinner than dead and immaculate.”

    Pathetic clumsy and unsavory sophistry.
    You are truly in the same league as Canning.
    Sophistry for bigginers lesson one : http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

    Surely the kind of intellectual stunt you say that Iran is so much in need wity people of your “quality”…

    Ahahaha !

  566. kooshy says:

    Karl.. says:
    August 25, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    This is normal, if you try to make a dishonest no referenced lie in the debate to back up your hidden agenda you should expect and will get pounded, he apparently wouldn’t mind it since like what he said he looks at this as a job and as he admitted profits from it. As I said it a few days back your opinions as long as are stated as such is honorable and subject to rebuttal by whoever, but giving and uttering petty lies to back up your opinions for other agendas, will deservedly get pounded.

    “In Goye wa in Midan”

  567. Ataune says:

    In the context of the current discussion in this forum regarding the state of innovation and research in Iran, this news item sounds interesting. Notice in particular the source origin of the news. I’m not an expert in this kind of issues, but I do believe that facts show that the level of innovation and research in Iran are much higher than what the West is trying to imply.

    “…Besides Russia, countries such as Germany, Iran and the United States have been developing vessels or weapons using supercavitation technology…”

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1580226/shanghai-san-francisco-100-minutes-chinese-supersonic-submarine

  568. Smith says:

    On why without allowing industrialists to have political lobbies and without decentralization of economic decision making, there will be no improvement in Iran’s economy: http://www.mehrnameh.ir/article/3615/%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%87%E2%80%8C-%D9%85%D9%84%D9%8A-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%B1-%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%A7%DB%8C%D9%87-%D8%BA%DB%8C%D8%B1%D9%85%D9%84%DB%8C-%D8%B3%D9%87%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A7-%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A

    تمركزگرايي و استقرار دولت قاعده‌مدار امكان فعاليت نهادهاي خودآيين اقتصادي را از بين مي‌برد و به اين ترتيب سرمايه‌داري ملي يا ايراني به شكل سرمايه‌داري دولتي استحاله يافت. ناهماهنگي ميان نهاد سياسي و نهاد اقتصادي خودآيين يا به عبارتي ديگر ناسازگاري بنيادين دو حوزه عمومي و خصوصي موانعي در برابر ايفاي نقش سرمايه‌داران ملي يا ايراني ايجاد كرد

  569. Smith says:

    Stories of 53 entrepreneurs who were robbed: http://www.mehrnameh.ir/article/3617/%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%86-53-%D9%86%D9%81%D8%B1-%D9%86%D8%AF%D8%A7-%DA%AF%D9%86%D8%AC%D9%8A

    What is the punishment for robbing someone in Islam? Has this punishment been meted out to those robbers? What does Islam say about stealing from others?

  570. Smith says:

    The cargo cult import mafia of bazar and how they used their ill gotten and evil political and religious power connections to kill Iranian industrialization by robbing the industrial entrepreneurs:
    http://www.mehrnameh.ir/article/3616/%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%B1%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D9%87%D8%A7-%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%B4%D9%87-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%B3%DB%8C%D8%A7%D9%84%DB%8C%D8%B3%D8%AA%DB%8C-%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%AA-%D9%85%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%AF-%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%B3%D9%81%D9%8A—%D9%81%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%86-%D8%B4%DB%8C%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%86%E2%80%8C%DA%A9%D8%A7%D9%85

    مورد اول نقش بازاري‌ها است که گفته مي‌شد بازاري‌هاي سنتي پشت اين مسأله بودند اما چون ارتباط آنها با علما بسيار خوب بود، سعي مي‌کردند از طريق علما مجوز اين کار را بگيرند و ريشه‌هاي اين مسأله هم تا حدودي شخصي بود. اين موضوع را آقاي لاجوردي و هم بعضي مديران در مصاحبه‌ها نقل مي‌کنند و اين يک رهيافت کنش‌گرايانه است که نماينده‌ها در آن نقش داشتند. دوم نقش چپ‌گرايانه در مصادره‌هاست که بعضی‌ها معتقدند به دنبال دشمن بودند؛ از اين جهت دشمنان‌شان مشخص بودند. چه طور بعد از چند ماه ليست اين افراد به بيرون درز پيدا مي‌کند؟ پس به نظر مي‌رسد که معاونان و مشاوران آنها چپ‌گراتر از خودشان بودند و اين بسيار مؤثر است. اگر در وزارتخانه‌اي چنين کساني نباشند، قطعاً مصادره به تأخير مي‌افتد و مجراي تنفسي براي صاحبان سرمايه به وجود مي‌آيد. حتي زماني که اين جو خاموش شد مصادره‌ها پايان نيافت. ما نبايد مسووليت رفتاري افراد را کم اهميت جلوه دهيم.

  571. Smith says:

    No hope for Iran’s economy:

    از ديدگاه پيروان انديشه چپ‌گرايي، سرمايه‌دار ملي ظاهراً كسي است كه ثروت چنداني در اختيار ندارد. اما واقعيت اين است كه سرمايه‌داري كه ثروت ندارد، قادر نخواهد بود، سرمايه‌گذاري كند و فعاليت‌هاي خود را توسعه ببخشد. چنانچه، يك كارآفرين از سرمايه قابل ملاحظه‌اي برخودار باشد، مدام اين ذهنيت را القاء مي‌كنند كه ثروت خود را از راه‌هاي مشروعي به دست نياورده يا خون مردم را در شيشه کرده است. بنابراين روشنفكران ما، يك سوءتفاهم بزرگ براي مفهوم «ملي» ايجاد كرده‌اند كه اين سوء تفاهم تا به امروز برطرف نشده است. راه حل اين است كه خود را از گفتار چپ‌ها و از محدوده پارادايم آنها خارج كنيم چراكه سرمايه‌داري ملي يا بورژوازي ملي مفاهيم مبهمي است. من معتقدم، سرمايه‌داري كه مطابق آنچه قانون تعيين كرده فعاليت مي‌كند، مرتكب تخلف نمي‌شود و در شرايط رقابتي به كسب‌وكار خود رونق مي‌بخشد، سرمايه‌داري در خدمت جامعه، تاريخ و فرهنگ است. اين دسته از سرمايه‌داران و فعاليت‌هاي آنان را بايد محترم شمرد و من آنها را تحسين مي‌كنم. درواقع، كساني كه ثروت خود را از راه‌هاي مشروع كسب كرده‌اند، بيش از ثروت خود به ديگران خير رسانده‌اند. ابعاد اين رابطه به ويژه در عرصه اقتصاد آزاد آشكار مي‌شود. كارآفرين و سرمايه‌دار موفق كسي است كه كالاهاي بيشتر يا خدمات بيشتري به مردم فروخته است. اين فرد قابل تقديس است؛ چرا بايد او را نفي كرد يا با مفاهيمي مانند ملي يا كمپرادور از ساير سرمايه‌داران يا ثروتمندان تفكيك كرد. همين ديدگاه‌ها سبب شد كه 53 نفر از سرمايه‌داران و كارآفرينان، اوايل انقلاب اسلامي مشمول بند «مصادره» شوند. در حالي كه اسلام با مالكيت خصوصي يا سرمايه‌داري به هيچ وجه مخالف نيست. بنابراين پيرو گفتار چپ‌ها، اتهاماتي از قبيل «وابستگي» به رژيم يا امپرياليست به آنها وارد كردند و گفتند كه اين سرمايه‌داران در خدمت سركوب بوده‌اند. اما يك سرمايه‌دار چگونه مي‌تواند در خدمت سركوب باشد. به هرحال آنها را تخطئه كردند و نام آنها را در اين فهرست گنجاندند. سپس اصل 44 را به كمك دوستان توده‌اي خود به تصويب رساندند. اينها نتايج همان تفكري است كه هنوز برخي از روشنفكران ما از‌ آن حمايت مي‌كنند.

    http://www.mehrnameh.ir/article/3619/%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%A8-%D8%B3%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%A7%DB%8C%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%DB%8C-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF-%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%B1%DB%8C–%D9%86%D8%AF%D8%A7-%DA%AF%D9%86%D8%AC%DB%8C

  572. kooshy says:

    August 25, 2014 2:24 PM
    So Sorry! British Embassy Apologizes for White House Tweet

    Gav James

    Looks like you Brits like to have your own cake and eat it too!!!

    “The 200th anniversary of the British attack on Washington that culminated in the burning of the White House was marked by re-enactments over the weekend. It was also celebrated with an event at the U.K. embassy in Washington — which featured a White House cake and joked “Only sparklers this time!”

    http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-WB-48462

  573. kooshy says:

    “Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards said Sunday its forces shot down an Israeli drone as it approached an Iranian nuclear site, recovering major parts of what it described as an advanced aircraft. Israeli officials could not be immediately reached for comment. Footage released by the Guards could not be independently verified by NBC News.”

    Meaning the Israelis didn’t want to or know how to
    comment or cover on their failed attempt.

  574. Persian Gulf says:

    BiBiJon says:
    August 25, 2014 at 8:37 am

    I think you have developed an ideology around the notion of nuclear weapons being useless for Iran or even anyone. I doubt any argument would change your mind. It seems to me that you sit somewhere in Boston and make your ideology nicer for yourself day by day. By your account Kerry should have already been in Tehran many times. Please be advised that I am here because of the destruction of that war. That the country’s resources were wasted and could no longer support her growing population. All because a nuclear weapon was missing in the country’s defense strategy. If it is easy for you to romanticize about how nice it is not to have nuclear weapons, it’s not easy for people like me. You don’t expect the generations to come to have the same fate as my generation or the one before, do you?

    I will also not comment on part of the argument you made here for an obvious reason. I will only talk about things that are out there in open forums. Basically, arguments that are being made already. And nothing more. I am not here to win an argument with you. You can claim whatever you want, I don’t mind.

    You are wrong about the US using the nukes in case of Iran threatening Saddam with one. As I said above, Saddam would not have reached that point at the first place had Iran possessed nuclear weapons by the summer of 1980. It would have been up to that bastard to find whatever the reason to move towards south/elsewhere and not east to entangle with a nuclear arm country. The US sat idly and watched her embassy being stormed and did not even threat Iran with a nuclear attack. Nor did the US come to rescue a poor country like Georgia.

    “…one starts to see how Saddam could have reasonably calculated nukes would not be used, and if they were used, it would mean Iraq’s victory over Iran..”.

    So basically you are admitting that Saddam, even being a despicable creature, was a very rational person.

    “Iran, even in the tumultuous days immediately after the revolution, considered herself to be a major nation/state among states, particularly among fellow Muslim-majority states.”

    I think you are again wrong about Iran’s revolution. Or you wished Iran’s revolution to take that path. I was not even alive at the time, but if you were, you got it wrong. Iran’s revolution was to transcend national boundaries and reach the whole Islamic Ummat and beyond (not through violent means though). and not to be confined to the existing , and perceived fake, constrains. That was the sole reason Iranians dared to jump on the mines en mass. In the whole history of Iran/Persia no amount of purely nationalistic sentiment saved the country/kingdom against an outside invasion. And it will probably won’t for the foreseeable future.

    “It is not as easy for me as it seems to be for you, to imagine that Saddam would have invaded a fellow Arab country if he didn’t feel he was the overlord of Arabs because of having first stood up to Iran.”

    Again, you are wrong. There were other Arab dictators at the time who were fueling Arab nationalism without necessarily being in confrontation with Iran, e.g. Hafez Assad, Ghazzafi…are cases in point. And Saddam invaded Iran on the pretext of a border dispute, not for a conflict of ideology. The base of his army was Shia. This could simply happen to Kuwait, as we all saw in late eighties.

    The whole point of having nuclear weapons is to “prevent” an all out war, outright intimation, and save the existing national borders, not to make the country absolutely save.

  575. Persian Gulf says:

    safe not save

  576. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    PG-jan,

    Understand that the war was the crucible into which Iran was thrown after 2,500 years of feudalism- perpetrated by kings and khans- “Islamic” and “non-Islamic”.

    If we compare Iran to an alloy, certain parts of this alloy were burnt away and other elements were added during the war.

    What emerged was a new republic, a reborn nation and new leaders from ALL SOCIAL BACKGROUNDS who DESERVE to lead the country because of their efforts during the war versus those that did nothing in that hour.

    Please come to terms with this. I might not agree with everything so-and-so does at age 50, 60, 70 but I remember where he was and what he did at age 20, 30.

    Yes, the war resulted in many people leaving the country and that’s OK. Others who could have left didn’t and some who where not in Iran, came back and joined the effort.

    For example, Dr. Lankarani was a teenager who could have very easily left Iran and lived with his father in the US at that time, but he stayed and went to war.

    Dr. Marandi could have left anytime being US-born but went and fought as a teenager and inhaled poisonous fumes.

    As they say in Iran: “I kiss their feet”.

    Some left because they “didn’t want to waste their life” others blossomed by staying and building a new nation and civilization. At the moment of death we will all see the reality of all our deeds in this life.

    The matter is much much larger than mine or your personal/family history.

  577. BiBiJon says:

    Persian Gulf says:
    August 25, 2014 at 11:09 pm

    I wish I could say I gained something from this conversation.

    A couple of references for folks here.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/137731/kenneth-n-waltz/why-iran-should-get-the-bomb

    “There has never been a full-scale war between two nuclear-armed states. Once Iran crosses the nuclear threshold, deterrence will apply, even if the Iranian arsenal is relatively small. No other country in the region will have an incentive to acquire its own nuclear capability, and the current crisis will finally dissipate, leading to a Middle East that is more stable than it is today. ”

    ——-

    And by John Mueller:
    From ;foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/01/04/think_again_nuclear_weapons

    “Nuclear weapons have had a tremendous influence on the world’s agonies and obsessions, inspiring desperate rhetoric, extravagant theorizing, and frenetic diplomatic posturing. However, they have had very limited actual impact, at least since World War II. Even the most ingenious military thinkers have had difficulty coming up with realistic ways nukes could conceivably be applied on the battlefield; moral considerations aside, it is rare to find a target that can’t be struck just as well by conventional weapons. Indeed, their chief “use” was to deter the Soviet Union from instituting Hitler-style military aggression, a chimera considering that historical evidence shows the Soviets never had genuine interest in doing anything of the sort. In other words, there was nothing to deter.”

    Also watch this ;youtube.com/watch?v=_lbbZ3oF-xA

  578. Empty says:

    Segments from an interview today with the deputy head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Sardar Salami, regarding the shooting of the spy drone and other events in the region. Parts of his responses were just too much of a gem to leave them untranslated:

    RE: the drone

    “Our response is not a diplomatic one. We respond in the field and we do not necessarily announce our responses ahead of time but will definitely exact them and our enemy sees and feels the effects.”

    RE: Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria

    “Bassiji frame of mind heightens the flames in Gaza, creates storms in Lebanon, extinguishes American power and its regional allies in Syria, and more recently, turns the Zionist regime and the land under its occupation to an area exposed from all sides to the fire of its next door enemies. And this is the greatest security puzzle for a regime that does not possess any of the elements essential for survival. That means, all the signs, symbols, and manifestations of this regime’s disappearance from the geographic and political pages of the world have become more evident than any time during this 66 years of its artificial existence.”

    “A regime that was busy developing dreams of expansion from Nile to Euphrates and busy teaching these dreams’ geography and history in its schools and universities is now stuck in a strip of 20 km width, at the most, and busy building several meter thick and tall concrete walls around itself along some hundred-kilometer so-called geographic boundaries.”

    “In fact, the American’s movement in the region is like moving on a circle: the more they get away from their beginning point, the more they get closer to that beginning point. These futile movement is evident in all their decisions.”

    RE: American power and influence

    “The more they try to weaken our power, the more space they create for our influence and power for our maneuvering. Then, when they finally feel that no equation is solvable without our involvement, they extend their begging hands to us to assist them in solving their problems.”

    “They have the greatest political and economic power and political influence. Yet, when these powers are moved around, they are not capable of producing benefits. And this decline means disappearance. On the other side of the front, too, with 3 trillion dollar expenditure in Iraq, the Americans could not reap much benefits for their expenses.”

    RE: ISIS/ISIL/IS

    “This nasty phenomenon that has been formed under the name “Da’esh” (ISIS) which paints the most violent, hateful, and most treacherous image of Muslims, is a neo-creature with neo-identity constructed in falsehood, moving toward falsehood, and has false essence and substance. Goals, beliefs, and behavior of this terrorist group, given the regional realities, are like a bubble on the surface of the water. This group, too, will be a puff of smoke and will disappear….Now, the best movement this group can have is to move to the direction of the very countries that supported them. They [ISIS] will create hardship for them [countries that supported them].”

  579. Ataune says:

    @empty

    This passage shows how clear the political understanding of the realities of the region is: “They have the greatest political and economic power and political influence. Yet, when these powers are moved around, they are not capable of producing benefits.”

    I would have put it myself something like that: they have the greatest political strength on paper yet when it comes to power projection they can’t reap benefit.

    And, if I was a policy planner, I would have asked the question: why is that?

  580. Amir says:

    M.Ali says:
    August 24, 2014 at 3:00 pm
    So… it was KSA? Could Mr. Amir Abdollahian’s visit mend the relations? I suppose you’ve heard what [I think] deputy head of Sepaah said today. Could you do me a favor, and give me a briefing on what KSA is trying to do?

  581. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 26, 2014 at 10:06 am

    The ethos of very many Americans in that of Godfather the Movie Trilogy.

    Such people cannot effectively deal with people whose ethos is something completely different – those who are informed by Islam, or by Judaism, or by Russian National Tribalism or Chinese Racialism.

    That is the fundamental flaw from which everything else flows – as well as the attendant failures.

  582. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Supreme Leader Meets with Officials of Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ambassadors

    http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1942

    “Referring to the significance of diplomacy, the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution said: “Intelligent and active diplomacy can bring about many important political, economic, human and social achievements. These achievements cannot be made with any other move including costly and dangerous wars. This truth indicates the weight and position of diplomacy in the management of a country.”

    Ayatollah Khamenei stated that the recent events in the region are a manifestation of this truth, reiterating: “Certain powers tried to safeguard their interests with bullying and weapons, but they failed. Unlike these powers, some people managed to safeguard their interests with subtlety, intelligence and dynamism.”

    His Eminence described the present era as the period of transition to a new global order, stressing: “As well as the traditional actors, new actors have entered the arena in Asia, Africa and Latin America and they are trying to strengthen their position in the upcoming new order.”

    He added: “In the present time, if our diplomacy can show its presence in an active, intelligent and powerful way, the position and power of the Islamic Republic in the new order will be established as an outstanding position in the following decades. Otherwise, we will not benefit from the necessary position in the new world.”

    Expressing his agreement with the statements that the President had made two days ago about interaction with the whole world, the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution said: “There are two exceptions in this regard: the Zionist regime and America.”

    Ayatollah Khamenei stated that it is not to the advantage of the Islamic Republic to establish relations and to negotiate with America. He stressed: “Not only will establishing relations and negotiating with America not bring the Islamic Republic any advantage – except for a few special cases – but it will also be harmful for it. Which wise person pursues unprofitable deals? Some people used to pretend that if we sit at the negotiating table with the Americans, many of our problems will be solved. Of course, we knew that this was not the case, but last year’s events proved this truth again and again.”

    His Eminence reiterated: “In the past, there were no relations between our officials and American officials, but last year, it was decided that officials in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs make contacts and negotiate with American officials because of the sensitive nuclear issue and the issue of making an experience that we referred to previously. However, not only did these contacts not bring us any benefit, but the Americans’ tone also became harsher and more insulting and they expressed more unreasonable expectations during negotiations and in public podiums. Of course, in these negotiations, our officials gave them sharper rejoinders in response to their unreasonable expectations. But in general, it became clear that unlike what some people think, negotiations are not helpful at all.”

    He touched on the issue of increasing sanctions against Iran, saying: “Not only did the Americans not decrease enmities, but they also increased sanctions. Of course, they say that that these sanctions are not new, but in fact, they are new. Therefore, negotiations in the area of sanctions have not been helpful either.”

    The Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution stated: “Of course, we do not prevent officials from continuing negotiations on the issue of nuclear energy. The task that Dr. Zarif and his friends have started and in which they have made good achievements will continue. But this was another precious experience for everyone so that we understand that establishing relations and speaking to the Americans will not have any effect on reducing their enmity.”

    Pointing to the disadvantages of negotiating with America, Ayatollah Khamenei said: “Negotiating with America will make other governments and public opinion throughout the world accuse us of hypocrisy. It will help westerners to describe – with their vast propaganda efforts – the Islamic Republic as inactive and dualistic.”

    His Eminence stressed that the Islamic Republic will not establish any relation with the Zionist regime at all. Referring to the issue of negotiations with the Americans, he said: “As long as the current conditions – that is to say, the enmity of America and the hostile statements of the U.S. Congress and government against Iran – continue, interaction with them is meaningless.””

  583. Bussed-in Basiji says:

    Tir-e khalaas

  584. Nasser says:

    Huh, I wonder what gives; that crackpot Barzani is acting uncharacteristically sane.

    “We asked for weapons and Iran was the first country to provide us with weapons and ammunition,” Barzani said.

    “We have no military presence in Iraq,” Zarif said. “We do have military cooperation with both the central government and the Kurds in different arenas.”

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/uk-iraq-security-kurds-idUKKBN0GQ0UL20140826

  585. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 26, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    Iranians closed the border to truck traffic.

    And then ISIS demonstrated that the Peshmarge were not capable of fighting it.

    The first task of a sovereign state is the ability to sage-guard its own territory.

  586. kooshy says:

    So, what do you think is wrong with this headline from Businessweek?

    Iran Joins Efforts to Back Iraqi Kurds Against Islamic State

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-08-26/iran-joins-efforts-to-support-iraq-s-kurds-against-islamic-state

    Well the problem or the way the editor worded the headline is to be ambiguous one when Iran decided to Joined the efforts to help Kurds fight ISIS, reading this headline one, really doesn’t know if Iran just joined the “Efforts”, was Iran a late comer joining the efforts to help the Kurds, as matter of fact who was the first to help the Kurds fight ISIS?

    To find what Mr. Barazani really said one need not to waste time reading the western media, here is what Mr. Barezani said reported on Press TV.

    “Speaking in a joint press conference with Iran’s Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif on Tuesday, Barzani added that Iran was the first country that supplied the Kurdish forces with arms and helped them fight ISIL terrorists.”
    **presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/26/376642/barzani-hails-iran-support-for-kurds/**

  587. Smith says:

    fyi,

    Regarding your suggestion of role of jealousy in backwardness of third world countries: http://khabaronline.ir/detail/372004/weblog/akhani

  588. Amir says:

    Bussed-in Basiji says:
    August 26, 2014 at 12:53 pm

    I think those who aren’t blind or deaf have realized that negotiations with a big smile with the US isn’t going to do much good; further proof of foresight of the Leader.
    But probably this was for the best. I mean, as the Leader had said earlier there were those who thought negotiations could make a headway if different tactics were used and Ayatollah Khamenei permitted the negotiations, so that the new government could see for itself what all this is about.
    Time to double our efforts, roll up the sleeves and rely upon God.

  589. Ataune says:

    @fyi

    You seem to infer from my question (on why the US policy is incapable of reaping the fruits of such a raw power) a generalizable point that “not being able to effectively deal” with other people’s belief system is the one flaw causing this.

    Although I believe that not being tolerant towards opposing or different point of views can be harmful when reflecting and/or forming opinions; it’s difficult for me to accept that a political action of the kind we are talking about here, a polarized situation, will benefit by positing as a fundamental principle of action tolerance towards other peoples belief system . You, as a protagonist, certainly need to understand the terrain in which you act, but promoting tolerance will surely undermine your political goal (of hegemony). Since politics has always been about the art of managing space either by soft means or by hard tools, one of the requirements has been to know the geography, human, historical, cultural etc… of the space you are dealing with. In a situation like the US in South-West Asia achieving the political hegemony becomes impossible not because of their intolerance towards Muslim societies and their belief system (which they do have) but because they haven’t understood that those polities are deeply rooted in the land. This is the main defect here.

  590. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 26, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    I am not sure we are in disagreement.

    You are raising multiple issues that I will briefly touch upon.

    In Vietnam, Americans’ ethos was one of the Lonely Cowboy; yet they failed, even though individual Americans in Vietnam had very high level of competence and dedication to their mission. Some thought that they were doing God’s work.

    In the Middle East, today, also against the Russian Federation soon to be followed by China, you neither have that Lonely Cowboy ethos nor the dedication to the cause.

    Neither in Vietnam nor at the present time in the Middle East or against Russia, American policy makers have been willing to acknowledge the relevance of “Area Knowledge” – for 2 reasons: the overwhelming strategic preponderance of the United States as well as their utter conviction in the universality of the Western Civilization.

    The English were opposite of the Americans in both cases.

    The Godfather Movie Trilogy ethos adds to the above since it prevents the American policymakers from engaging in diplomacy – you need not know or care about locals and their ethos which is deeply rooted in the land since you are going to bomb them and kill them in any case and create a new order – based on Godfather ethos – at the point-of-a-gun.

    Well, it is clear that US cannot do that because the Godfather ethos, intrinsically, and as a nihilist ethos of powers, cannot induce conformance in flesh-and-blood conquered people who are informed by something else.

    [I purposely did not try to ask you about your nebulous phrase: “..those polities are deeply rooted in the land…” – for the purpose of continuing this discussion without being side tracked.]

  591. fyi says:

    Smith says:

    August 26, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    The late Dr. Ezatollah Negahban, the founder of archeological research in Iran – a true visionary – was denounced as a “collaborator” of the Shah’s government to the new authorities in Tehran after the Islamic Revolution by 2 of his former students who were professors at Tehran University at that time.

    That he had been retired at the time of the Iranian Revolution mattered not, he spent years clearing his name through the Revolutionary Courts.

    The sad part was that he had helped one of those two obtain government fellowship to study abroad for his doctorate.

    Later the same 2 people came and visited him and apologized to him.

    Much later, Islamic Republic awarded him with medals in recognition what he had done for Iranian Archeology and for Iran.

    I also recall this conversation which I had almost 25 years ago in US with a member Muslim Student Society – Persian Speaking Group in which the fellow told me that it was better for Iran to import foreign temporary faculty from India or Bangladesh than to have Iranian faculty who could be voicing various kinds of criticisms.

    It was during a speech in MSA-PSG about the same time that the speaker – who was some kind of official in the “Islamic Cultural Revolution” undertaking and had arrived from Tehran – stated to the audience: “If you want comfortable life, stay in America.”

  592. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    One reason for the American catastrophe in Vietnam was simply the giant ego of Lyndon Johnson. He wailed a number of times: “I don’t want to be the first American president to lose a war.”

  593. Fiorangela says:

    “DUBAI: Iran’s deputy foreign minister said he had held a “positive and constructive” meeting with Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister in Riyadh Tuesday as the two rivals seek to counter Islamist militants in Iraq.

    Hossein Amir Abdollahian’s visit is the first by a senior Iranian official for talks with the kingdom since moderate President Hassan Rouhani was elected last summer and pledged to improve Tehran’s frosty relations with its Arab neighbors. . . .”

    26 August 2014

    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Aug-26/268548-iran-saudi-talks-positive-and-constructive.ashx#ixzz3BWRkS0jk
    (The Daily Star :: Lebanon News )

  594. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    The US was very stupid, in my view, to attack Britain in 1812. And very stupid to burn the capital of Upper Canada, bringing on the burning of Washington as punishment.

  595. Ataune says:

    @fyi

    I’m trying to emphasize on the two following activities being different in essence:

    Political action, via soft or hard tools, needs positive knowledge, the more engaged in a fight the closer to the reality the knowledge needs to be;

    Reflection and contemplation need dialogue, therefore tolerance towards opposite opinions and system of belief.

    The cause of US policy failure in South-West Asia is not because of intolerance towards Muslims, although they have plenty of it to, but lack of knowledge of how deep Islam, a community based system of belief, is rooted in the land.

    Bush II tried to uproot the political system by direct tools, unsuccessfully. The current administration is trying to incite, encourage or bribe some of the locals to do the uprooting themselves.

  596. James Canning says:

    Kooshy,

    I should have said the British burned the Capitol and the White House, rather than “Washington”. To retaliate for American stupidity in Canada.

  597. James Canning says:

    Ataune,

    The moron in the White House (GW Bush) let Jerry Bremer destroy the Baathist state in Iraq. A secular state, of course.

  598. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    I assume you did not read the extensive report in the Financial Times last week, concerning the water crisis in Iran and poor decision-making by Ahmadinejad that made the problem worse. And in your view, reference to a carefully-prepared report is “sophistry”.

  599. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    August 26, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    That means that they listened to each other without yelling…

  600. Ataune says:

    @caning

    The only difference I see between the political actions of the two administrations is the posture. The goal, as the Leveretts would say, stays the same. Bush II opted, assuredly with the acquiescence of the policy planners in Pentagon, for the hard tool since at the time US thought that it will bring a successful outcome. The current administration which is a prisoner of the previous choices is displaying a soft and “defensive” posture not out of choice but necessity. Since 2001, the political space has changed tremendously and new parameters are emerging.

  601. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You appear to suggest the US may back away from its policy of supporting the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation. I very much doubt this.

  602. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 26, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    They failed because they could not articulate a positive view of the future – Godfather never could do that – the only view it could articulate was status quo under fear.

    Thus there was never any thought given to the Peace that would follow any War – that they did not care to listen to experts is not as important because the experts would have told them “Do not do it.”.

    As they are already telling them vis-a-vis the Russian Federation.

  603. nico says:

    James Canning says:
    August 26, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    Why do you insist to embarass yourself ?
    Is Cofornia drought Obama fault ?
    You pathetic oldd supremacist drunkar, it seems you need a rest.

  604. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 26, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    Yes, I agree.

    I would add that Mr. Canning is fundamentally misreading the United States in thinking that she is akin to UK with its ruthless empiricism.

    Americans are not motivated by pillage and piracy that UK was for centuries….

    They are just addicted to exercise of power for its own sake….

  605. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 26, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    Kiev is too far away from Cleveland.

    A US leader must ask: Which one is more valuable; Detroit or Donetsk?

  606. fyi says:

    Ataune says:

    August 26, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    One caveat: Do you think US has any other tool except the hard tool?

    I personally think not – specially in the light of Godfather Thesis – but I would like to hear your opinion.

  607. Fiorangela says:

    Several years ago Israel-born & raised psychologist Avigail Abarbanel assessed “Israel’s growing insanity, which is, she stated, actively spread by (the late) Ben Zion Netanyahu and now his son, Benjamin. The derangement has affected large swathes of Israeli government and populace. (see :http colon www dot avigailabarbanel dot me dot uk/growing-insanity dot html )

    The mission of Conflicts Forum is to take a deeper look at issues in the Middle East. True to that objective, the Forum posted this perspective on the present “insanity” by which Israelis continue to rain death on occupied Palestinians in Gaza. The Forum viewed the atrocities through the eyes of ancient mythologies –

    “The Ancient philosophers perceived killing – and its opposite pole of living peacefully – as curiously closely related – they rested, these seemingly opposite poles, on a knife edge, with each able, in an instant to tip towards the other. . . . When human energies became distorted, they held, a vicious circle emerges:

    with heightened temperament producing volatility,
    volatility producing arbitrary and fluctuating intentions,
    frustrated intentions producing feelings, and
    inflamed feelings demanding the impulse to act (perhaps to kill).

    But what we (humans) lash out against – when seized by such volatility – is not something ‘real’ – As with Heracles in Hades, attempting to slay Cerebus and the demons of the ‘otherworld’, Heracles needed to be reminded firmly by Hermes that these fearful demons he was trying to kill, were not real – they could not be killed by the sword. They were images: the ‘demons’ Heracles was trying to ‘kill’ had emerged from out of his own psyche.

    The key is in ‘the reversal’: the shift from the nihilistic to the enlivening. It is not easily done, (the ancient wisdom held), but a virtuous cycle is but a knife edge away – though crucial to making the reversal, is the ability to understand the seemingly contrary polarities inherent in all things: to see with ‘two eyes’.**

    Is this not the significance of recent fighting in Gaza? Israel simply cannot contemplate – cannot do – the reversal into the positive: the enlivening. It is paralysed, like Heracles, by the impulse to thrash around with a sword in order to continually wound these demons from the ‘otherworld’.

    But there is no guide (a Hermes), bar a few courageous individuals, to tell Israelis that these demons have become so fearsome precisely because of what is buried in their own collective psyche. There is no reversal in view.

    Muslim temperament, in response to the slaughter, will heighten; feelings – already inflamed – will demand action. The crisis will aggravate.”

    http://www.conflictsforum.org/2014/conflicts-forums-weekly-comment-8-15-august/#sthash.ObKWFN6D.dpuf

    Similarly, Lady MacBeth went mad attempting to erase a “damned” — but invisible — spot. She, as do the actors in the Levant, more needs the divine than the physician (much less the bomber).

  608. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The US attacked Britain in 1812 for several reasons. One important reason is that Southern planters (and Northern land speculators) wanted to take Florida from Spain, and Britain was blocking the scheme. Grabbing Canada was also part of the American programme.

  609. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    I think Russia will take the deal on offer from Germany. Ukraine will maintain its territorial integrity, except for Crimea. But not join Nato.

  610. James Canning says:

    Nico,

    Obama has no control over water usage in California. Apparently Ahmadineajd did have influence over water usage in Iran. I take it you did not read Najmeh Bozorgmehr’s report.

  611. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    No historical analogy is very good but ISIS and indeed the Sunni Jihadists cause me to think of the Boxer Rebellion (please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion).

    And just like Boxer Rebellion then, foreigners are trying to create a temporary coalition-of-the-willing to crush ISIS.

    And then, as now, the ISIS now and the Boxers then, are opposing a world order not of their making – a world made by foreign Christians.

    Lastly, both groups seem to be largely uneducated in the what the world is like and how it operates – presently or historically – in other words – ignoramus.

    If this analog holds, we should expect a concerted effort to crush ISIS by foreign powers, followed by further disintegration in Iraq and Levant until 2 or 3 generations later something like the Chinese People’s Army would put the pieces together again.

  612. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Are you suggesting the Ottoman Empire could have kept its Arab provinces, if it had stayed out of the First World War?

  613. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Recently, you were reproaching Obama for failing to attack Isis with sufficient vigour. Now you attack an effort to do what you were recommending?

  614. Nasser says:

    fyi says: August 26, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    Thank you for providing that interesting analogy.

    But I am not convinced that Axis powers and Gulf States or Turkey are committed to “crushing” ISIS.

    In fact I rather agree with your previous thesis that they still think they would find ISIS useful in the future and want to reorient its attack towards the Shias rather than towards any and all including Kurds.

    Another way this resembles Lebanon is that the Sunnis there too at Saudi encouragement had been supporting these Wahabi elements to “scare” the Shias into making concessions. They soon found that they were unable to control those groups and they have instead managed to create a headache for themselves. Still they are reluctant to abandon them fully because it still offers them such an effective lever against the Shias.

    I have stated before that I personally am not unhappy with these developments. This would certainly shatter any social bond or trust existing between Arab Shias and Sunnis and Pan Islamists or broad minded nationalists like Muqtada Al Sadr would become increasingly marginalized. This to my mind is an essential prerequisite for an union between Iran and southern Iraq to happen.

  615. Nasser says:

    A criticism of US foreign policy under President Obama by a certain faction in Washington

    http://nationalinterest.org/feature/barack-obama-not-realist-11124

  616. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 26, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    I have no idea what you are talking about.

    So far, there has not been any attack worth a damn against ISIS.

    Just a cat & mouse game.

  617. Ataune says:

    @fyi

    I don’t see where you are getting with this. Even Casa Nostra has soft tools in her disposition to deter or dupe or cajole the opponent. You don’t need to physically fight all the time and you should know that the more you polarize the closer you get to using the hard tools. Now, if one add the moral dimension to what I just said and accept the fact that humans cannot live outside a social community, one can conclude that if things get to the physical fight whoever has the mass in commonality of value and purpose behind the leadership will have the upper hand… Unless the fight is about complete annihilation of the enemy, which is both an inhuman goal and outside our scope of discussion.

  618. nico says:

    Fiorangela says:
    August 26, 2014 at 2:02 pm

    “DUBAI: Iran’s deputy foreign minister said he had held a “positive and constructive” meeting with Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister in Riyadh Tuesday as the two rivals seek to counter Islamist militants in Iraq.”

    And what about that ?
    – Is that only allegation from factions not wanting good relation between Iran-KSA ?
    – Or that is the true hard policy at play ?

    http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13930604000235

    “Sources: Saudis Aided Israeli Spy Drone Launch on Iran”

    “The security officials did not detail the kind of assistance provided by the Saudis, but it is likely to have included the use of a Saudi airbase, the WND reported.

    In November 2013, the WND quoted informed Egyptian intelligence officials as saying that Israeli personnel that were in Saudi Arabia for a month to inspect bases that could be used as a staging ground to launch attacks against Iran.

    The officials said at the time the US passed strong messages to Israel and the Saudis that the Americans maintain radar capabilities around the skies of Iran and that no strike should be launched without the permission of the Obama administration.

    The Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Aerospace Force shot down an Israeli spy drone before it could reach Natanz nuclear enrichment facility, in Central Iran, on Sunday.

    The IRGC Public Relations Department said in a statement that the Israeli pilotless aircraft was a radar-evading, stealth drone with the mission to spy on Iran’s enrichment activities by flying over Natanz nuclear enrichment plant.

    IRGC Aerospace Force Commander Brigadier General Amir Ali Hajizadeh said on Monday that the Israeli spy drone that was shot down near Iran’s nuclear enrichment site in Natanz had not taken off from an Israeli airport.

    “The operational range of the drone shows that it hadn’t been sent from the occupied territories (Israel); rather it had started its flight from a regional country. We have received clues and we are investigating them,” the commander said.”

  619. Rehmat says:

    On Sunday, when Iran’s IRGC announced that it shot-down an Israeli spy drone on way to Iran’s Natanz nuclear enrichment plant, the entire Jewish-controlled media made fun of it – claiming it an anti-Israel PR to demonize the “only Jewish state” in the world. However, when Iran released a video (watch below), showing parts of the destroyed “Jewish drone” – the same media, shamelessly, came up with another lie: “O’ yea, what about Iran supplying arms to Palestinian “terrorists” throwing thousands of rockets on the peace-loving Israeli Jews.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/08/27/lobby-iran-to-arm-palestinians-after-it-downed-israeli-drone/

  620. Fiorangela says:

    This month marks the centenary of the start of World War I.

    “The Great War” was marked by several new tactics in waging war; crucial among them was use of propaganda to sway masses.

    Contrary to the propagandized notion, Germany was not the master of propaganda techniques, neither in the first nor the second world war; that distinction fell to the British and Americans.

    In the years preceding the Great War, British popular fiction put cheap literature that demonized Germany and the Germans in the hands, and minds, of the masses; British fiction writers spread hate at a tuppence the book.

    World War II exploited film technology, which many USA film studio directors & producers such as Warner Brothers, learned from the Germans. Hollywood was — and remains — a major center for spreading hatred and subversion of cultural norms.

    But fiction writers as well as practitioners of the craft of so-called creative non-fiction, are also enjoying a lucrative run in the business of spreading hatred and normalizing deviance and death-dealing. Demonizing Muslims in general and Iran in particular is providing great wealth for authors such as Daniel Silva (“The Fallen Angel”) and Christopher Reich (“Rules of Destruction”), among others. Just in case hatred of “the Hun” has failed to fully infect the minds of Americans, authors such as Steve Berry (“The Paris Vendetta”) and Erik Larson (“In the Garden of Beasts”) supplies fresh reinforcement of the propaganda that drew the USA into a war against Germany in 1917 and again in 1933. In all of these works of fiction, Israel and Israelis are benign-to-admirable, even Israeli characters, institutions and governments plot and carry out assassinations — a specialty of one of Daniel Silva’s characters — and even a nuclear attack on Iran, which Christopher Reich revels in in the Epilogue to his “Rules of Destruction.”

    What is even more disturbing is that public libraries — those wonderful institutions that taxpayers fund in order to preserve and disseminate our cultural riches — have become the distribution center for these works of demonization and hatred. Librarians have been turned into accomplices to warmongers. Pittsburgh is home to the vaunted Andrew Carnegie Public library system and counts more than a million volumes in the 75 branches of its extended system. A search for books about the history of Persia in that vast collection displays fewer than TEN books about Persia (excluding the 42 copies of “300” on DVD).

    On the other hand, I stopped counting at 100 the books by Daniel Silva that are part of the Carnegie Library’s collection. Similarly, CLPGH holds fifty volumes by Christopher Reich, and 104 books by Steve Berry.

    At many conferences where the goal is to inform and activate citizens to protest US foreign policy, participants are urged to Write to Your Congressman! Call the President’s Office! Write Letters to the Editor! Well and fine; certainly, do so. But also look closer to home: take a look at how the tax funds you pay to support your library are being spent to spread hatred and animosity, and are NOT being spent to acquire sound information about other peoples and cultures.

  621. Empty says:

    Fiorangela,

    RE: “This month marks the centenary of the start of World War I.”

    As you have posted, now and many times in the past, and as we’ve come to learn over and over again how much money, energy, effort, techniques, tools, science/technology, arts, books, movies, etc. has been put into promoting lies and falsehood, making people apathetic to honesty, decency, and compassion toward self and other human beings, should it not be a wonder that all these costs have not been able to root out the very real desire in humans for honesty, decency, and compassion? It sure flies in the face of the “fallen state of man”. To spend so much and for so long to beat down something that is supposed to be fallen and yet, it keeps on standing tall.

    هر کسی کو دور ماند از اصل خویش … باز جوید روزگار وصل خویش

    [Molana. Translation/interpretation: “S/he who gets lost/goes astray from her/his true nature and essence will keep on searching and seeking to unite with the true essence.”]

  622. Empty says:

    Ataune,

    RE: “And, if I was a policy planner, I would have asked the question: why is that?”

    I think the rhetoric nature of your question was lost to some!

  623. Amir says:

    M.Ali says:
    August 24, 2014 at 3:00 pm

    Two sources say Israeli drone took off from an airbase North of IR Iran, see links:
    http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13930605001089
    http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13930605000510
    What do you make of that?

  624. Karl.. says:

    Amir

    This might be interesting perhaps?
    Reports of Israeli drones operating in Azerbaijan spark Iranian condemnation, threats
    Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2012/12/reports_of_israeli_d.php#ixzz3Bb11NdFq

  625. Amir says:

    On second thought, probably that’s none of my business.

  626. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    August 26, 2014 at 11:31 pm

    I think it more of a dumbing down of the population.

    I personally do not have any problems with libraries carrying such titles; I would be concerned if that is at the expense of more serious tomes on history, literature, and philosophy.

    The Publics everywhere are low-brow, the substantive books – in scholarship, research, and ideas – are there for those few children and young people with fine minds and a desire to comprehend the world and to do something about it.

    But you know how socialistic populism labels all such people – elitists – and endeavors to cripple them through public education and denial of funding.

  627. fyi says:

    Karl.. says:

    August 27, 2014 at 8:46 am

    There was a report at Debka site to the effect that the drone flew from the Azerbaijan Republic territory of Nakhchevan; which is surrounded by Iran and Armenia.

    I very much doubt that the leaders of Azerbaijan Republic would go out of their way, smuggle such a drone into Nakhchevan through Iranian territory, and then launch it.

    I think that report is a case of mis-information.

    I think it was launched from Saudi Arabia – if Ambassador Bahdrakumar is to be believed.

  628. Amir says:

    Mr. FYI,
    I was wondering if you knew what the Israelis are trying to do by flying a drone right through our airspace, given your Zionist connections and whatnot.

  629. fyi says:

    Amir says:

    August 27, 2014 at 9:50 am

    I will never again address you until you have apologized to me for your slander.

    You join the following list of those I no longer address until they sincerely apologize to me:

    Mr. Kooshy
    Mr. Bussed-in-Basiji
    Mr. Nico

  630. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 26, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    You do not evidently understand US, a country incomprehensible to UK due to a common language.

    The Empire Project’s roots in US are deep, they likely predate 1776 and certainly the creation of the United States herself.

    Americans were not driven to covet Canada or Florida due to poverty – unlike the British isles where the poverty of that island drove successive generations of the English people to seek their fortunes outside of the British Isles.

    In the United States, it was a search for Glory and Exercise of Power that drove them – for in 1812 US had plenty of land for all comers and takers.

    And Florida was swamp land with barely any Spanish residents.

    In my view, UK and you yourself are sorely mistaken if you apply any lessons of English history to the United States; you would be indulging in false analogies and assessments.

    US is not poor, US, unlike the Ottoman and Roman Empires, is not in constant need of booty and slaves to keep her polity functional. There is no material poverty that could explain the actions of the United States – unlike England’s.

    The English, for example, were not in India to make Indians into good Englishmen – they were there to enrich themselves – and were quite clear about that.

    Not so the Americans…

  631. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 27, 2014 at 9:59 am
    You consider “Zionist connections” slander? How come?

  632. Jay says:

    James Canning says:
    August 26, various times

    I second the comment that US must be incomprehensible to folks in the UK due to a common language.

    As we press on our keyboard, US planners are reinvigorating efforts to prod UK and France to join a new bombing campaign in Syria. Under the guise of bombing ISIS, in order to strengthen the “moderate” opposition to Assad, the US chooses to bomb some more.

    The US search for glory has caused death and destruction into millions across the ME and N. Africa – with Libya being the latest to descend into complete chaos. It will not stop! This search for the lost glory is search for what cannot be found!

  633. kooshy says:

    Technologically a Big step forward in Iran’s new industrialized enrichment capability

    “Iran’s nuclear chief says the Islamic Republic has tested a new generation of centrifuges under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

    “We have declared our latest generation of centrifuges, i.e. IR-8, whose SWU (Separative Work Unit) is 24, to the Agency,” Ali Akbar Salehi, the director of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, said on Wednesday.

    Salehi was quoted by Fars News Agency as saying in a televised interview that necessary mechanical tests have been conducted on IR-8 centrifuges, but they have not been injected with gas as it requires the permission of President Hassan Rouhani.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/27/376767/iran-develops-ir8-centrifuges/

  634. Fiorangela says:

    Empty says:
    August 27, 2014 at 12:16 am

    “. . . should it not be a wonder that all these costs have not been able to root out the very real desire in humans for honesty, decency, and compassion? It sure flies in the face of the “fallen state of man”.”


    Thank you for capturing an essential difference in the ways humans perceive themselves.

    Socrates said, “All men seek the truth; to do otherwise is absurd.”

    Jesus never died; he is forever on the heights overlooking the city and the desert, where he persists in brushing aside the temptations to surrender the soul’s longing for the integrity of truth in exchange for riches or power.

  635. James Canning says:

    Writing in the Financial Times today, Richard Haass calls for the US to help the Syrian government to defeat Isis.

  636. James Canning says:

    Jay,

    Richard Haass in the Financial Times today says that Obama did not think the “moderate” rebels in Syria could gain control of the country.

  637. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You discount Florida incorrectly, in not comprehending it was one issue that brought on the foolish War of 1812. Powerful “slave” interest wanted another “slave” state in the Union. Spain, and Britain, did not want to see an expansion of slavery into Florida.

  638. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    You make interesting comments about the “dumbing down” of the American people, and the lowering of intellectual tone in public libraries. Same problem obtains in England.

  639. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    The German Empire very foolishly spent fantastic sums building a High Seas fleet for no purpose other than to threaten Britain. (Leaving aside issues of ego and money-making.) Blunder of an epic order.

  640. Fiorangela says:

    The Defence Ilovaisk

    “They are mercenaries, contractors . . . Poles, and Blacks . . .
    How does the enemy fight?
    They are like on drugs.”

    = = =

    It is not unlikely that ISIS fighters are also mercenaries and contractors, and that they are doped out of their minds on amphetamines.

  641. Fiorangela says:

    The Defense of Ilovaisk

    “We ran out of water. No one has water. . . . All the windows used to be glass; now they’re boarded up. . . . On government TV they say there are no civilians in Ilovaisk, but every cellar has tons of people — children, women, over there is a man who is paralyzed. . . . In the DK bomb shelter people get a piece of cheese — one piece of cheese — a day.”

    How dreadful.

    In Victoria Nulandland, such topics are considered soooo unfashionable.

    How to Stage Your Washington, DC Home for a Quick Sale at a High Price “Home staging is about creating an illusion . . .”

  642. Fiorangela says:

    John Canning, August 27, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Yes yes. Of course.

    And yet, Germany is thriving today, while England has to send out pimps like Tony Blair to beg, borrow and steal, all the while clutching the coattails of Monsters-in-chief Geo Bush and Benji Netanyahu in an attempt to placate his battered ego, questing for the empire that Churchill lost, through what, his brilliance?

  643. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    August 27, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    No, No No.

    They are fighting for Islam – Islam is a living force in them…

  644. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 27, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Right, like the hypersonic bomb that Americans are working on that can hit any part of this planet within 30 minutes of launch.

    Long range nuclear munitions are the coins of sovereignty & power in the days to come…

  645. Jay says:

    Feel like a little fun?

    The Fun of Empire: Fighting on All Sides of a War in Syria

    “It’s as though the U.S. knew for certain all along that it wanted to fight in the war in Syria, and just needed a little time to figure out on which side it would fight.”

    “It seems pretty clear at this point that U.S. military action in the Middle East is the end in itself, and the particular form it takes – even including the side for which the U.S. fights – is an ancillary consideration.”

    “The U.S. “is sharing intelligence about jihadist deployments with Damascus through Iraqi and Russian channels,” the Agence France-Presse reports today, citing one source as saying: ”The cooperation has already begun.””

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/08/26/fun-empire-fighting-sides-war/

  646. Fiorangela says:

    fyi says:
    August 27, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    “The Times of Israel reported today that almost the entire Syrian side of the Golan Heights is now under the control of rebel forces, including radical Islamist groups, a senior Israeli military commander in the area said Friday.
    Only the Quneitra border area is still in the hands of forces loyal to President Bashar Assad, Lt.-Col. Anan Abbas, deputy commander of the Golan Brigade, told Israel’s Channel 10. About 95 percent of the Syrian side of the Golan is in the hands of anti-Assad rebels, including radical Islamic groups such as the Al-Nusra Front, affiliated with al-Qaeda, a rival of the burgeoning Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, better known as ISIL or ISIS.”

    “Now the End Begins, The Magazine of Record for the Last Days”

    Is the US’s best ally in the Middle East, Israel, not concerned that ISIS has carried out successful campaigns on its border — or rather, in territory that Israel illicitly occupies?

    Which of the forces that are fighting in Golan are drunk on Islam — Al-Nusra? al-Qaeda? ISIL?

    Do they intend to drive Israeli occupiers out of the Golan?

    Why isn’t Israel demanding that USA hasten to the defense of Israel, or is Israel too busy killing Arabs in Gaza?

    None of the fighters mentioned are fighting for a state. They are by definition, mercenaries. Who is paying them — Saudi Arabia? Israel? Qatar? Kuwait? USA?

    Where are they going to set up this Islamic State? Where will be its capital? In Damascus? Jerusalem? Tel Aviv? Baghdad? A sound-stage on Riverside Drive in Burbank, CA? Will they build a new mosque or take possession of the shrines at Mecca & Mashad?

    Maybe you are right, fyi; ISIS fighters are drunk on Islam. Or maybe you are inhaling something funky.

  647. Fiorangela says:

    http://news.yahoo.com/us-coast-guard-fires-iranian-boat-gulf-163905967.html

    “Cmdr. Kevin Stephens, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy’s Bahrain-based 5th Fleet, said personnel on a small boat dispatched from the U.S. Coast Guard patrol boat Monomoy fired a single shot when it saw crew on a nearby Iranian dhow training one of its two .50-caliber machine guns on them and preparing to fire.

    “This action by the dhow’s crew demonstrated hostile intent which resulted in the defensive fire by the Coast Guardsmen,” he said.

    Dhows are traditional wooden boats common to the region that are typically used for trade.

    No Americans were wounded in the encounter, which happened in international waters around 11:30 a.m. local time Tuesday, Stephens said.”

  648. Fiorangela says:

    http://news.yahoo.com/coast-guard-narrowly-avoids-sparking-world-war-iii-221100412.html

    “The U.S. Coast Guard fired at an Iranian fishing boat in the Persian Gulf on Tuesday, nearly adding to a long list of global headaches for President Obama.

    Fortunately, the incident ended quickly with nobody hurt, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said, according to a CNN report.

    The Iranian boat had pointed a weapon at the American crew, Kirby said, prompting a single shot from the Coast Guard vessel.

    “I don’t know whether the shot was just a warning shot, or it hit the dhow,” Kirby said, according to CNN. “In any event, it pulled away and nobody was hurt.”

    Kirby said the Coast Guard was performing a “routine maritime mission” in the Gulf.

    According to a Department of Defense news agency report, “U.S. military rules of engagement state that unit commanders always have the inherent right and obligation to exercise unit self-defense in response to a hostile act or demonstrated hostile intent.” ”

    — in international waters

    — US Coast Guard dispatches a small boat

    — Iranian fishermen allegedly point machine guns at small Coast Guard vessel.

    — This action on the part of the Iranians “demonstrated hostile intent”

    — US Coast Guard, claiming right to defend, fires upon Iranian fishing boat — in international waters.

    — notice the headline: “US Coast Guard Narrowly Avoids Sparking World War III” — the flip-side of which is, “US Coast Guard Tries Its Damnedest to Provoke World War III. Iran Reject the Bait”

  649. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    You appeared to claim, implicitly, that fear of Germany in Britain prior to August 1914 had no basis. Other than propaganda by “anti-German” interests. Germany foolishly created that fear. Full stop.

  650. fyi says:

    All:

    http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/three-reasons-iran-wont-give-its-nuclear-program-10982

    We read:

    “…concessions weaken Iran’s bargaining position vis-à-vis their longstanding rivals in the West and in the Middle East- starting with Israel and Saudi Arabia. These allowances do not tie the hands of the P5+1, Israel or the Gulf states, preventing them from attacking Iran or making additional demands upon it after it has been denuclearized.”

  651. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    August 27, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    “Germany foolishly created [Britain’s fear of Germany.] Full stop.”

    Read that over and over and over again James.
    Eventually, you may recognize that it does not make sense.

    What were the British afraid of? What threat did Germany pose to the British?
    I submit that the British saw in a rapidly industrializing Germany stiff competition for resources and trade routes that the English had been accustomed to controlling.

    I submit that the British regarded Germany in the same way as US/Israel/Britain regard Iran: as a dynamic state that is capable of competing vigorously with those states, thus trimming back the levers of control and measures of resource extraction those states enjoy in a region. Further, at least in the case of Iran, it refuses to submit to the status of participant/vassal in a US/Israel/UK-dominated system but prefers to function under its own value-set.

    Further, as at least one Yale University scholar argues, railways were at least if not more important causal factor of WWI than was Germany’s threat to British maritime hegemony. Germany’s plans for a Berlin-to-Baghdad railway threatened England’s lust to fragment the Ottoman empire and gather it to itself — after first perfidiously offering shares in the spoils to France and Russia — and to Chaim Weizmann for a Jewish homeland. https://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/5500040100.pdf

    In short, the English were afraid of the competition, so they destroyed it. Twice.

    In the passages from Conflicts Forum that I quoted above — (August 26, 2014 at 2:30 pm) — the demons that beset the British were not real; they were manufactured on the anvil of British greed. Croesus’s interpretation of the Delphic Oracle was inflected by his greed; it caused him to lose his kingdom. So it happened with Churchill and the British. So it will happen with USA and with Israel. In all cases, many, many innocent lives will be destroyed before that lust is sated, or cauterized.

  652. ataune says:

    @fyi

    I think we should read the article you link to National Interest as an Israeli propaganda piece rather than an opinion column.

    It looks like in the context of the new Israeli aggression in Gaza and the aftermath of rumors on two-state solution being abandoned, and also, let’s not forget, the Syrian regime-change plan having collapsed, the author is trying to set the new parameters for the other Israeli foreign policy priority (all of this emerging out of necessity it should be said). The polarization scenario between Iran and the West having hit a dead-end for now, time has come to advance the idea of a cold war like containment policy for the West. Thus depicting Iran’s only, but obviously made-up by the author and false, alternative as pushing forward the, non-existing, nuclear weapon program.

    Whoever read just a little carefully the article will notice how hollow and illogical the whole argumentation is based on and how for each of the “3 solid reasons” for Iran not to give-up her “Nuclear Weapon” program there are historical counter-examples.

  653. Amir says:

    fyi says:
    August 27, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    Now that you mentioned this article – which was floated once before, but didn’t attract much of a response – could you read this article from the National Interest as well?
    It partially explains why some people who share your values have come to hate their homeland – in that case Russia – like you do. I don’t agree with some pats of it, but still, it’s worth reading, see link: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-eternal-collapse-russia-11126?page=3
    The part about you starts on page 3.

  654. kooshy says:

    “About The National Interest
    Over almost three decades, The National Interest, founded in 1985 by Irving Kristol and Owen Harries’

    Firstly the National Interest article FYD posted a link is a month old;
    Secondly it is published by National interest which was founded by Irving the daddy Kristol father of Neocons and Bill Kristol a known Zionist.
    Thirdly the author “Dr. Albert B. Wolf is an Israel Institute Fellow with the Leonard Davis Institute for International Relations at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is currently writing a book examining the effectiveness of coercive diplomacy in curbing nuclear proliferation.”

    Fourthly What should one expect from an article posted by in National Interest written by an Israeli in Israel and link to us by FYD a Zionist supporter,

    FYD knows nothing better than dig old Zionist articles and post links to it or dig known Zionist think tankers. Apparently as per his admittance he profits being a Zionist. Him and his hidden Zionist opinions should be ignored since is now well stablished that he has a hidden agenda supposed to supports Israel.

    I have nothing against him personally, but all his opinions and links and information’s he writes and provides should be closely monitored scrutinized and if necessary countered with facts. This is a must for preserving the integrity and scholarship of this site up since this site perhaps is the most and the only important US/Iran foreign policy focused site in English.

  655. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    August 27, 2014 at 11:21 pm

    Dear Kooshy, if I may address you like that
    I wanted to ask your opinion, beyni va beynallah, about something.
    1. To the extent of my knowledge, Mr. and Mrs. Leverett are two American nationals, patriots in their own understanding of themselves, who have concluded that their country’s standing is eroding because of unnecessary postures/ actions, advocated by a generation of decision makers (I don’t dispute the validity of their argument).
    2. I think the Leveretts are Americans at the end of the day, and even if their understanding of us has evolved during the past decade or so, ultimately they are after their own country’s interests, not ours (I mean no disrespect).
    3. As the Leader has said last week, dialogue with the US has certain disadvantages, one of which is that we would appear playing along with established big powers’s games (where we are granted a sphere of influence, but we have to police it); that appearance would run contrary to the values expressed in our constitution, namely empowering the downtrodden of the Earth. The same goes for any cooperation or coordination with the US, such as a joint military action in Iraq or Syria; that would run contrary to our strategic goal of driving external powers out of the Middle East and Persian Gulf.
    4. I don’t know which candidate would be endorsed by the Leveretts in 2016 presidential election (I thought maybe Rand Paul, MAYBE). Somehow I’ve been entertaining the idea that the Leveretts mention Nixon’s policy towards China so frequently because there is something there which is more attractive to both of them (they could have mentioned US rapprochement with Vietnam which is still under Communist party); in my humble opinion it’s because they endorse a multi-polar world order, in a way that H. Kissinger and R. Nixon would have understood it. But, I think even if the US electorate would choose someone like Rand Paul, a resurgent US would ultimately try to dominate the world. Bear in mind that multi-polar order envisaged by Nixon was replaced with whatever Reagan had to offer.

    Take all these factors into account and tell me, do you think any rapprochement with the west (particularly the US) is worthwhile?

  656. kooshy says:

    Amir says:
    August 28, 2014 at 12:46 am

    Amir Jaan

    Simply said I fully agree with ayatollah Khamenei’s approach in this regard, meaning I am not optimistic on possibility of a rapprochement with US base on reasons I have mentioned many times namely, alienating and degrading Iran’s standing as a nation supporting oppressed since the revolution, specially with the region’s Muslim Sunni streets, for sake of having relation and reducing US hostilities, in my opinion in this context and in long-term this would be more costly for Iran’s political and maybe economic interest in her region.
    In my opinion Iran is not and shouldn’t seek to be an international power it is not necessary and is expensive to maintain both politically and financially, but Iran always has been and will remain to be a great regional super heavy weight who should protect and maintain security in her region and for all Shieh Muslims.

    Again as per ayatollah Khamenei’ approach and explanation, Iran should negotiate and show flexibility, but standing firm on her international rights , Iran has too show the world as she has done in past 10 years that she is not the aggressor here, who as per western propaganda (or like by persuading the public opinion with a demand and no other security choice than having a nuke by likes of FYD) wants to make bomb and start bombing everyone, this is what this negotiations should and would prove. Mainly Iran is not facing any major security complication that requires WMD besides WMD are illegal and immoral based on Iran’s Islamic believes. In my opinion Iran’s foreign policy on this regard is been implemented correctly. One big foreign policy worry I have is abandoning south America, after so much investment there during Ahmadinejad , in my opinion Iran and Mr. Zarif should not abandon a great investment that already was made there unfortunately seems this administration has lost their concentration there.

  657. Amir says:

    kooshy says:
    August 28, 2014 at 1:30 am
    Thanks a lot kooshy jan for the time you took to answer. Thanks!

  658. BiBiJon says:

    Moderate beheading
    ==================

    This gem from NPR yesterday

    http://www.npr.org/2014/08/27/343758236/the-life-of-the-man-who-died-fighting-for-isis

    MICHAEL SCHMIDT: Basically, this is a 33-year-old guy who, on Saturday, was part of a group of ISIS fighters that was taking on the Free Syrian Army – that’s the group the United States is backing with money and weapons. And the Free Syrian Army was controlling this town in northern Syria. And Mr. McCain and a few other fighters attacked them. They initially killed some of the soldiers from the Free Syrian Army. The Free Syrian Army responded, killing several ISIS fighters including Mr. McCain. The Free Syrian Army then went on to behead several of the ISIS fighters – not Mr. McCain, though. And then they posted a picture of that on Facebook.

    SIEGEL: We should point out – this, in effect, is the civil war within a civil war. Both of these groups oppose the Assad regime.

    ———

    Yes. You heard/read right. Free Syrian Army, “the group the United States is backing with money and weapons,” “went on to behead several of the ISIS fighters” and then proudly “they posted a picture of that on Facebook.”

    Robert Siegel could have shrieked: What? That is who the US backs with money and weapons? But, that would be on a parallel media universe.

  659. Fiorangela says:

    aha.

    now we got the goods on ’em: ISIS plans to attack Las Vegas.

    www dot fox news dot com/world/2014/08/27/al-qaeda-magazine-urges-terrorists-to-hit-vegas-military-academies-and-stores/#

    ooops — not ISIS, al-Qaeda. It was al-Qaeda that wrote a magazine instructing how to make a bomb like the Boston pressure-cooker thing, and listing targets in the US to be struck.

    It’s all so confusing. ISIS, al-Qaeda, WMD in Iraq, Hamas attacking Israel with F-16 soda bottles in an attempt to kill all Jews, Israel standing silent while ISIS swarms in Israeli-occupied Golan, Obama plans to bomb Syria (a sovereign state) in order to rout ISIS in Iraq, forsaking after a very brief trial the notion of “no victors no vanquished.”

    Hollywood must have figured this movie would never make it in the box office but the war profits from the Real Thing would be unending. It’s cheaper to kill Palestinians than to hire extras.

    nb. in that regard — in a recent appearance on C Span the Former Ambassador to Morocco Marc Ginsberg responded to a viewer (at 30 min.) whose phone call was truncated before he could complete the thought. After stating that the USA will be attacked “because of what’s happening over there: American children are taught by watching Sesame Street, etc,” the caller asserted that Palestinian children –“babies, toddlers” are taught —- ??? Who knows what; the call was ended at this point.

    Ginsberg read the caller’s mind. Without missing a beat Ginsberg recited:

    “There’s no doubt that in social media — and boy, somebody from Hollywood must be managing their social media. They had this boy he couldn’t have been more than ten just mouthing off this hatred-filled diatribe against Shiites, waving ISIS’s flag. And the caller is absolutely right: these people are trying to indoctrinate and brainwash young people to take up arms against Shiites. I mean just think of the fact that these are fellow Muslims that they’re prepared to kill merely because they don’t worship – they worship the same god but in different ways. I mean this is what is going on with ISIS.”

    I dunno, maybe the same scriptwriter created the 10-year old “diatribe” as crafted the al-Qaeda magazine threat to attack Las Vegas. Lord knows Neal Diamond hasn’t done anything creative in a decade; Vegas needs some spark.

    But as far as “indoctrinating and brainwashing” children, Israel controls that franchise. On 23 August 2014 the Jewish Daily Forward published an article by Or Kashti titled, “Israeli Teens Gripped by Virulent Racism; Book Details Spread of Anti-Arab Hatred in Schools.

    The article explored “a forthcoming book, “Scenes from School Life” (in Hebrew) by Idan Yaron and Yoram Harpaz. The book is based on anthropological observations made by Dr. Yaron, a sociologist, over the course of three years in a six-year, secular high school in the Israeli heartland – “the most average school we could find,” says Harpaz, a professor of education.

    The book is nothing short of a page-turner, especially now, following the overt displays of racism and hatred of the Other that have been revealed in the country in the past month or so. Maybe “revealed” isn’t the right word, as it suggests surprise at the intensity of the phenomenon. But Yaron’s descriptions of what he saw at the school show that such hatred is a basic everyday element among youth, and a key component of their identity. Yaron portrays the hatred without rose-colored glasses or any attempt to present it as a sign of social “unity.” What he observed is unfiltered hatred. One conclusion that arises from the text is how little the education system is able – or wants – to deal with the racism problem.”

    In 2011 Nurit Peled-Elhanan spoke at a conference in South Africa:

    “The question that has been bothering me for a long time is how do Israeli citizens, including the children who at the age of 18 join the torture machine – the IDF – cope with such a discrepancy between the values they are raised on and the practices of oppression against their neighbours?

    The answer to this question lies in education. Because apartheid is not only a bunch of racist laws, it is a state of mind, fashioned by education.

    Israeli children are educated from a very tender age to see “Arab” citizens and “Arabs” in general as a problem that must be solved, eliminated in one way or another.

    They can go through life without ever meeting a Palestinian child or talk to one. They know nothing of the life of these people who live 100m, from them, sometimes in the same street as in Abu-Tur in Jerusalem.

    Israeli education succeeds in building mental walls that are far thicker than the concrete wall that is being constructed to incarcerate the Palestinian nation and hide their existence from our eyes.

    That is why Israelis never protest against the apartheid wall. Most Israelis, including leftist Zionists, see the wall as an appropriate solution to the “problem”. They don’t consider Palestinians as human being like themselves, but as an inferior species, that deserve much less.

    This can also explain the concern and the ecstasy over the captured soldier Gilad Shalit, who was renamed “a kidnapped child”, and the complete indifference towards the hundreds of Palestinian children, who are literally kidnapped from their beds by fully armed soldiers and thrown into jail for throwing stones, being where they shouldn’t be, or speaking impolitely to soldiers, or merely existing.

    Apartheid in Israel and Palestine, imposed and practised by the Israeli security forces, is enabled by the most profound racism, practised every day, in every domain of life, in every encounter or action, in education and in the media that are wholly dedicated to the production and reproduction of fears and heterophobia.”

    mondoweiss dot net/2011/11/nurit-peled-elhanan-apartheid-in-israel-and-palestine-is-enabled-by-the-most-profound-racism.html#sthash dot 6KLodihC.dpuf

    Earlier in 2011 Peled-Elhanan published the results of a comprehensive study of Israeli textbooks, ” Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education.” In an interview about her research and the book, Peled-Elhanan said, “I didn’t know I would fall on so much racism.” Elaborating, she said that Palestinians, their culture and customs do not exist in Israeli textbooks. If Palestinians are depicted at all, it is not as physicians or teachers but as ali Baba cartoon-figures.

    If Former Ambassador Marc Ginsberg got THIS much wrong about the “indoctrination” of Arab children compared with the “education” of Jewish Israelis, why should anything he said be trusted? And why does C Span offer its viewers such a biased source information?

  660. Fiorangela says:

    The spillover effects of Western sanctions, in Kazakhstan

    Simon Schmidt, 27 Aug 2014

    “As the cycle of economic retaliation between Russia and the West seems to spiral ever more out of control, anxiety is increasing about the possible spillover effects, in Kazakhstan’s capital Astana. Already facing homegrown problems, the largest Central Asia country is now taking reactive and preventive measures. But its alignment with Russia is threatening ambitious growth plans.

    The intensified antagonism between the EU and Russia could not have happened at a worse time for Kazakhstan. Central Asia’s biggest economy is already experiencing a slowdown following disruptions in the oil industry, and pressure on the national currency. In October 2013, operations at the country’s largest oilfield, Kashagan, were suspended after only having commenced one month before. It is thus questionable if oil production can be kept at the 2013 level of 81.7m tones. Then, after emerging market indices showed signs of volatility in early 2014, Kazakhstan’s Central Bank devalued the tenge currency by 19% in an attempt to support commodity exports.”

  661. fyi says:

    Fiorangela says:

    August 28, 2014 at 11:52 am

    Axis Powers are burdening the rest of the world with their policies.

    The rest of the world will be forced to adjust since they do not have the power to directly confront Axis Powers.

    If the Axis Powers had been able to win in a short time – say less than 3 years – in Iraq, or in Afghanistan, or the economic war against Iran, the other states would have endured it, having the assurance that such costs as Axis Powers impose on them are short-lived.

    But that has not been the case and after years of war and conflict, they must assume that Axis Powers can initiate wars and conflicts but cannot bring to a successful conclusion within a reasonably acceptable time frame.

    So, adjust they will – all the time trying to hide what they are doing from the Master Countries.

  662. Nasser says:

    fyi says: August 28, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    Please elaborate. What would that adjustment look like in practical terms?

    I expect countries such as India or even Korea or Japan trying to strike a balance when it comes to Russia; but certainly Iran can expect no meaningful assistance from anyone.

  663. fyi says:

    All:

    Yet another “solution”, this time from Arms Control Association:

    http://www.armscontrol.org/files/Iran_Brief_Win_Win_Formula_Uranium_Enrichment.pdf

    Nothing in this has changed.

    And Mr. Khamenei’s parameters for a deal are completely ignored.

    And the resolution is deferred to a decision by IAEA – which will never happen.

    Their will-full and ignorant hubris is astonishing.

  664. fyi says:

    Nasser says:

    August 28, 2014 at 12:13 pm

    I expected nothing and still expect nothing from those two semi-sovereign states – Korea and Japan.

    They will endure what ever comes from Axis Powers.

    And so will Germany – she is not sovereign.

    Not the way Iran or China are.

    India is seeking investments and technology and the only acceptable source to them is US – although working with China is a more sensible option for them.

    By adjustment I am not saying anything profound – as years go by and these countries have to endure consequences of Axis Powers decisions with no end in sight, they would devise mechanism to trade with Iran, Russia and others.

    They would reassure the visiting US Treasury Officials that they are adhering to any and all diktats from Washington DC and Brussels while turning a blind eye to smuggling, unregulated money transfers, sales of goods to intermediaries, etc.

    They would setup commercial banks just to conduct trade with the sanctioned states.

  665. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    Germany is the strongest power in Europe.

  666. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    The German Empire had no need whatever, for a High Seas fleet able to challenge Britain’s control of the North Sea. None whatever. ZERO. The attempt to build such a fleet cost fantastic sums and alienated the British, needlessly. Epic stupidity.

  667. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    British policy was to preserve the Ottoman Empire. The Turks wrecked this policy by attacking Russia in 1914.

  668. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 28, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    Germany is not sovereign, Iran is.

  669. fyi says:

    James Canning says:

    August 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    US has no need of a hyper-sonic airplane to deliver explosives within 30 minutes to any corner of this planet.

  670. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    August 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Is that an argument or a tantrum?

    – – – –

    James Canning says:
    August 28, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    That’s an assertion. What evidence supports it?

  671. Sineva says:

    Ah,no james shes not,germany may be the richest country in western europe but it is certainly not the strongest,her military is pretty lacking compared to france for instance and of course france possesses a nuclear deterrent which germany does not,so there is in fact little comparison between the two

  672. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    August 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    “It is also inaccurate to claim that the British were “driven” into an anti-German and anti-Austrian alliance system because of the naval expansion begun by the Germans in 1898. This build-up never came close to threatening English naval supremacy, and on the eve of the war, Germany had only moved from eleventh place up to fifth as a naval powe r.

    When Anglophile German Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg . . . proposed to scale down the naval build-up and offered other concessions to the British as a way of winning their friendship, he got nowhere in a hurry. As we learn from German dean of diplomatic historians Konrad Canis in Der Weg in den Abgrund 1891-1914 , the British government of Lord Edward Grey ignored the Chancellor’s overtures and proceeded to tighten the encirclement of Germany with the French and Russians.

    In the summer of 1914, if the war had not broken out, the British would have signed an agreement with the Russians centered on landing Russian armies, who were to be transported in British ships, on the North German coast. This was not in any way prompted by provocative German action. It was, as Canis painstakingly documents, a step toward the hostile encirclement of Germany that the Grey government had been working to achieve since 1905.”

    = = =
    Lather.

    Rinse.

    Repeat.

    August 26, 2014 at 2:30 pm

    “But what we (humans) lash out against – when seized by such volatility – is not something ‘real’ – As with Heracles in Hades, attempting to slay Cerebus and the demons of the ‘otherworld’, Heracles needed to be reminded firmly by Hermes that these fearful demons he was trying to kill, were not real – they could not be killed by the sword. They were images: the ‘demons’ Heracles was trying to ‘kill’ had emerged from out of his own psyche.

  673. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Germany knew very well indeed its construction of a powerful High Seas fleet was taken by Britain as a serious threat.

    Germany was by far the strongest power on the continent, and sadly, delusions about rising Russian power helped bring on the catastrophe of 1914. Which would not have happened, if Germany had not build that fleet.

  674. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    I take it you concede British policy was to preserve the Ottoman Empire, and that attacking Russia was a blunder by the Turks.

  675. James Canning says:

    Sineva,

    Germany is by far the greatest power in Europe. In saying this I am not referring to possession of nukes, or having the most heavy weapons. Economic power is the largest factor.

  676. James Canning says:

    Fiorangela,

    Russia likely would have destroyed the Ottoman Empire in the early 1850s, had not Britain prevented it. Ditto in the late 1870s.

  677. James Canning says:

    fyi,

    The only possible purpose of the High Seas fleet built by the German Empire, was to threaten Britain. (Excluding vainglory & moneymaking)

  678. Fiorangela says:

    James Canning says:
    August 28, 2014 at 5:18 pm

    You’re stuck in a rut, James.

    Try this:

    “Fiorangela knew very well indeed that persistently pointing out to James facts that undermined his claims would be taken by James as a serious threat.”

    1. A serious threat to what? James’s ability to finish his checkers game? James’s enjoyment of a night out with boys?

    2. Is it Fiorangela’s responsibility to tend to James’s perceived sense of threat? I don’t think so, particularly when the “threat” is not real.

    3. Is the “threat” that another (i.e. James, Britain) “takes” within the control of of the entity who performs the act that is perceived as a threat (i.e. Fiorangela, Germany)?
    I don’t think so. I have no control over the thought-processes you entertain in your head, particularly when they are detached from reality. Germany has no obligation to suspend its competitive ambitions merely because they are “taken as a threat” by Britain. (see Capitalism, below).

    4. Does an entity have a right to act in his own interest and for his own purposes, particularly when his acts are legitimate i.e. Germans — any state — has as much right as any other state to build a fleet.

    That UK feels “threatened” by Germany’s maritime actions are Britain’s problem, and a systemic aspect of capitalism: the rules of the capitalist game involve competition, winners and losers, and “creative destruction.” If Britain cannot compete, then it loses, but Britain’s failure to compete does not require that Germany curtail its efforts to compete.

  679. Fiorangela says:

    lol

    James Canning says:
    August 28, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    “The only possible purpose of the High Seas fleet built by the German Empire, was to threaten Britain. (Excluding vainglory & moneymaking)”

    = = =

    The only possible purpose of the high risk investment in mortgage-backed derivatives by Goldman Sachs, was to threaten Merrill Lynch. (Excluding vainglory & , er, moneymaking).

  680. Fiorangela says:

    ducks quack.

    investment firms invest and compete to make money.

    states build up their fleets to enhance their capacity to trade and make money.